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The rumors of just what Hosni Mubarak will do are rampant. I’ve heard several reports that Mubarak will resign, and just as many that Mubarak will not. There are reports that he’ll give up power to Omar Suleiman, and reports that he will cede to a transition led by the military.
So it’s not clear what we’re going to see. The eyes of Tahrir Square and the world will be upon him. We should know in a matter of minutes.
You can watch live here. I’ll be liveblogging…
…Gregg Levine notes: “Egyptian television has been showing live shots of the protests at Tahrir Square, not something typical of the last 17 days. AJE also notes that the editorial tone has changed there, with commentators talking about the need to clean up government corruption.” Egypt state TV has been going rogue for a few days now…
(Gregg jumping in here…) Hosni Mubarak announced that while he will cede some of his duties to Omar Suleiman, he intends to remain as president until his term ends in September.
Demonstrators in Tahrir square started chanting “Leave, leave,” and taking off their shoes and waving them in the air.
Egyptian TV now reporting that Omar Suleiman will also address the country tonight.
UPDATE 11:34pm Egypt Time: Suleiman is speaking now. Claims door is open to dialog, says he is committed to “Peaceful transition of power.” Calls the Egyptian people “heroes,” then calls on them to “Go back home.” “Do not listen to satellite TV whose main mission is to fuel sedition.”
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Waitin’ for my Moob–he’s never early, he’s always late, one thing you learn is you always gotta wait. . . .
tweeps reporting Los Angeles PBS is running Al Jazeera feed
Well, with the congress and senate’s bill to cut all public spending to PBS and NPR, they may as well stop pussy footing and putting out the truth.
“A father to his children…” More bullshit.
Yeah, but it may be too late to save public broadcasting.
Mubarak is ‘feeling their pain.’
Congratulations to the Egyptian people for successfully and peacefully protesting their dictatorship. They wouldn’t settle for anything less than real reform. It looks like they’re going to get it.
Heh. He’s going to fulfill commitments. Doesn’t sound like he’s going anywhere.
Mistakes? Torture is not a “mistake.”
His speech doesn’t sound like he’s stepping down.
doesn’t sound like he’s going anywhere.
Where’s the meat? Or is this in the tradition of Egyptian rhetoric? No resignation so far.
Doesn’t sound like he is about to step down…! 8-(
So…he’s staying, but the military will run the nation…egads.
He’s not stepping down. Back to square 1.
what’s the Egyptian equivalent of flipping the bird?
might be a good way to end his speech….
I don’t think he is ceding power *at all.* Still saying he won’t run in Sept.
Fucking A. The guy is living in a parallel universe.
Mubarak “definitely not going to step down”-info min
Premature rejoyculation.
wonder how the citizens will take this one… hope they’ll stand firm.
So is this a face-saving move? He stays as figurehead, but someone else runs the show? Poor, vain, old man.
oh man – there are hundreds of thousands of soon-to-be *very* angry people gathered in Tahir Square.
this could get real ugly, real fast.
Freedom of the press — the oligarchs’ worst nightmare.
This won’t end well.
On the other hand, one does have to wonder how the people plan to appoint a new president without an election, which can’t happen overnight. They wouldn’t accept the VP taking over.
heh.
My “take” is that the world-wide PTB told Moobie to stay put. Otherwise it sets a bad example that “the small people” can have any power whatsover.
Well, as Mort Saul used to say, ‘The Future Lies Ahead.’ Seems to sum up the speech so far.
Not even conceding earlier elections. *gah*
This is going to get real ugly, and the military will step in. This assclown doesn’t want a peaceful transition of power.
Agree that he’s vain, but I think that’s there’s more going on behind the scenes and not just about Mubarak’s ego. JMHO.
Did he actually start by re-stating last week’s promise not to run? I am speechless.
From what I’ve seen, I don’t think the Egyptian people are going to accept this. What’s next? Will he try to use force to stop the protesters?
The boos and hisses should already be starting by now from the crowd. But they look as dumbfounded as I feel by this “speech”.
“I’m stayin’, bitchez!”
“Deal with it!”
This is shocking. He’s completely clueless.
they should not have taken so much corporate money and cowarded during the lead up to the Iraq war.
Maybe he figures the worst case scenario is that someone will kill him, and at his age, he would become a martyr? WTF?
Probably true, but my gut says that the MOTU also don’t want a peaceful transition of power. My “take” is that this goes way beyond just Egypt & Mubarak.
Amen, amen. Gonna get ugly. Look at that crowd!
At least judging by U.S. standards, this is a speech by a man completely out of emotional touch with anything going on around him. Written by a lawyer.
That’s it.
It’s the old “saving face” routine, as when Nixon had to leave a million extra dead bodies in Vietnam to the US could “exit with dignity.”
Yes. You heard that right. It is “something” – eh?
He obviously did not borrow our con mans speech writers.
What now, Egypt?
What are you watching? The AJ feed is showing a calm crowd.
This definitely goes beyond just this one assholish dictator.
First… Mubarak transfers powers to Army
Egyptian Military Statement: “Declaration 1″
Not even scrapping emergency laws until ‘circumstances permit.’
Speech so far: Would you like fries with your nothingburger?
Perhaps the CIA won’t let it be peaceful. Takes some real balls to come out with these speeches seeing what is going on in the nation. Would think most people Mubarak’s age would be scared sh*tless of this mob….unless he already knows something.
This is going to end badly. Thanks alot, Obama.
Worth *waiting* for … I’ll give the old codger that much. Yeesh.
you got it. But none of the leaders have a clue about us little people. We understand the Egyptian protestors, our leaders are so isolated, they have no idea.
That’s how I see it. Power never cedes control without a fight. This is way beyond Mubarak; the global PTB want a show of force to the “people” everywhere.
The What if, What now Revolution.
He better be wearing some high-powered running shoes..man, the tone in the crowd is now deep and becoming more and more agitated…now they are jeering.
Crowd erupting??
Never-fries! Nothing-burgers!
Jeebuz, moobie, all that was a LONG time ago.
What have you done for them lately?
More to the point, what have you refrained from doing to them lately?
I feel like that Far Side cartoon:
Blah blah blah
Egypt
Blah blah
Egypt
blah blah blah blah
Egypt
What’s the crowd chanting?
What keeps running through my head is that this could be the US in another 10 years if nothing changes. Look what Obama has been doing with civil liberties. Look at the growing disparity between rich and poor, the jobless, the discontent brewing (however inchoate) from the right. Look at the corrupt politicians, the “ownership” of our government by the corporations.
Could we be headed here in a few years?
Listen to that crowd.
I think the crowd in Tahrir Sq is just shouting “leave” but it sounds like “Fuck you” from here.
If he truly believes the nonsense that he is spouting, he is going to die one deluded man when this mob of protestors gets ugly.
Could it be they need to show the “uppity” proles a thing or two about remembering their place?
Not any more. The chant has started.
I am watching Al Jazeera English live stream, split screen, Mubarak talking, the crowd yelling.
The global powerful elites definitely have an “idea” about the “small people” and it’s this: we are to be ground under and told what to do. Hence, they wheel out Mubarak to give this bogus “speech.”
This clown is out of his freaking mind.
Mubarek – “Oh, and by the way, I’m a freakin’ hero, ya know. Remember 1973?”
I’m hearing “Fuck Off’. It’s international.
Yes: that’s it. You got it.
Sounds like the Egyptian people are shouting at Mubarak to get the eff out of there.
Power to the People!
Possibly, but it would be much uglier in the US. Far too much hatred.
We will be in the street on the 19th of march and at the prison where Bradley is being held on the 20th. there are churches where people can stay. come join us. But who knows, maybe we will stay at the park or be in the prisons.
Fuck you is what Mubarak is saying.
Now Moobie just seems to be spouting a lot of a nonsense about “peace” and we will “prove” something or other… crowd in background screaming at Moobe to eff off…
What a fucking DICK.
Shorter Mubarak…”I am a damn war hero, and you can all pound salt until I say I am leaving”
The crowd is chanting, “get out, get out”…
eh – maybe. I think people here are faaaar too lazy to get off of their couches to do much of anything, unfortunately.
Dares the assassins again.
So where the hell does the military factor into this?
Yeah, that’s what worries me.
Is that “really” what they’re shouting?? I agree it *sounds* that way.
Wow..the crowd is going nuts….you wanted violence Mubarak? Sounds like you are going to get it.
Mubarak won’t “separate” from the soil until he’s buried under it… hmmm… a suggestion?
Wolf…the crowd seems to be very “exuberant”…Wolf are you f’ing kidding me?????
I think we can forget the peaceful demonstration now.
“May peace be upon you all.”
Don’t think so, Mubarak…
Mubarak –
WTF is foreign about the million in Tahrir right now, douchebag?
Robert Fish report on Democracy now yesterday how the tanks there are ours. Not just paid for by us, but ours. Worth watching. He has been taking numbers on the Arab tanks, but when he took the numbers off one of ours he was chased. He researched and found it to be ours. he also showed a clip where our embassy van ran over tons of peaceful protesters.
That is what CNN banner is saying they are saying. Me…I don’t speak Arabic, so who knows.
Mood has turned to anger & demonstrators are throwing shoes in the air.
They are NOT happy campers. Very very angry… uh-oh
“Carnival like atmosphere has turned to one of resentment” — AJE
Shouting “He shall leave!”
Thanks for clarification. Well seems that way to me.
They have less money than him, therefore they are foreign.
They will be free. Just not today. Maybe later.
Then give us back our tax money you f’er! (to Mubarak of course)
What are they chanting? Slogan: “He must leave” “He shall leave.”
Very angry crowd
AJ: Sounds patronizing. Father to his children.
Dya think.
Hate to believe it, but Mubarak would not be this stubborn unless someone very powerful is supporting him. CIA? US gov’t?
Yeah, they’re not from Oligarchiland.
Wolf…the crowd seems to be very “exuberant”…Wolf are you f’ing kidding me?????
ya gotta consider the source.
unsolicited tip: when listening to Wolf, assume that he’s got it ass-backwards -> proceed accordingly.
Lsls, stream AJE if you can, don’t watch CNN. (I know, you may not have a choice, but I don’t think any MSM is gonna get it right.)
He’s even more out of touch than our representatives. I didn’t think that was possible.
Speech is considered very patronizing and like a father speaking to his children. Entrenched in the notion of holding onto power. Trying to draw on emotional sympathy of Egyptians…
CNN TS interview: “the people are angry, very angry, of course we’re angry.”
I’m watching MSM so you don’t have to hear the lies and crappola…I don’t buy any of it. Thanks.
And a LOT more weapons. You remember our fabulous 2nd Amendment and all that, don’t you?
I don’t think he’s out of touch. I think he knows he has powerful support. Just we don’t know who it is. Nobody would be this stubborn with the size of the protests. Nobody is that dense. Somebody is propping him up.
Mubarak is not saying anything new.
Anyone expecting Mubarak to present an historic speech was disappointed.
This is good. Really it is…. More and more people will join the crowds.. more and more damage will be done to the transnational corporations. More and more people will get to see how horrible our president is as he supports the thugs of the Arab world. More and more people around the world will start thinking. More and more people will rise up against repression and who knows, maybe it will get here.
That’s a whole lot of pissed off Egyptians
Oy vey. *sigh*
Anderson Cooper: “the same lies.”
Heard that interview as well.
How did we mis-read the signs that Mubarak was going to say something different or step aside?
Good effen question.
Seems unbelievable doesn’t it.
But I gather Mubarak has spent 30 making no speeches to the citizens. So give him a chance to practice up a bit. He did say he was ‘feeling their pain,’ and did promise double hard not to run again. /s
The Sauds yesterday announced they would support him in the event the US pulled aid.
Now Obama and Hillary will have to give new speeches on the “fluid nature” of what’s going on, and look forward not back, blah, blah, blah
“The great and powerful Oz has spoken.”
Wow. Just wow.
A tweet from Egypt (@Amiralx):
Their corporate bosses.
Yeah. He’s so inspirational. I wonder if Plouffe wrote the speech…
Wolf Blitzer still is an AIPAC tool…!
Financially…I don’t think a couple dozen $100 bills is gonna help him..LOL
Indications coming out of those within the govt were that they expected Mubarak to “answer the demands of the people.” There was reason to believe that Mubarak would step aside, but then: poof, not gonna happen.
“This is going to mobilize more protestors tomorrow… the anger can be heard from more than a mile away of Liberation Square… expect a bigger demonstration tomorrow. People are mad.”
Why did the Army say that all the people’s demands would be met and then Mubarak’s speech said nothing new? Very weird.
What next?
Mubarak just gave the Dick Cheney to the Egyptian people.
Good one
Have to agree. It was a very weird and disjointed and condescending speech.
Unintended consequences. A good thing.
How much will the financial elites tear down to stay in power?
I get an eery feeling this is exactly what the US gov’t and CIA in particular want. Egypt will be the experiment on what to do when millions are completely fed up with your corruption. Me thinks they are taking notes and using this as a scientific experiment.
According to guest on democracynow this morning, it’s the strikes that are going to make the difference. Labor unions have been run by the govt up until now, so widespread strikes are very unusual.
WRT Suez Canal, apparently it can still function despite whoever is now on strike (not clear about what those workers do); what would close it is if the guys who actually guide the ships thru go on strike.
Key passage: Mubarak made it very clear that he intends to stay but won’t run in the Sept elections.
It is good for us to have the reports so we know we are not missing anything.
Mubarak has went rogue!
the CIA is very pissed off right now, because Mubarak is about to send US Mid East foreign Policy up in smoke.
the USA is learning very important lesson, never put a CON MAN in the WH
It’s going to a longer haul than any of the demonstrators thought. The strike is now the key.
I think the Sauds are terrified that they’re going down soon, too. The twitter feeds are amazing. Nigeria, Libya, Zimbabwe, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Juwait… All have people calling for #Jan25 movements. This shit’s about to get real.
O.M.G.
Don’t know if it’s what they wanted or intended or whatever, but *certainly* they are taking notes. Of that, we can all be certain.
All this energy has to go somewhere..
We are not pulling aid.. According to democracy now we are sending more weapons.
Crowd is very angry; throwing their shoes. Crowd chanting: He must go, he must go.
AJ anchor asked same Q. No answer, not even any hypotheses or guesses.
Sounds like there’s at least one rift at the top, as well.
Would imagine the UN (US military basically) would take over the canal if there was any threat of closure. The world’s elite would not allow it.
Dick Cheney WROTE that speech!!!!
Not sure if this is good news, or bad news but, there’s a lot of US military already there, or on the way
Crowd is showing much anger and frustration. When Mubarak mentioned he had spent years in public service, then the crowd knew that Mubarak was not going to step aside. The people took off their shoes then and threw them, which is an *incredible* sign of offense.
Lot of anger, lot of profanity, lot of people breaking down in tears, we cannot believe that Mubarak doesn’t “understand” what we want.
More large marches on Friday.
Hypothetical question….if anyone here at FDL was in Mubarak’s shoes, so to speak, and had millions gathered telling you to get out…..would you keep making the same speech? Now if the same situation, and someone assured you that your life is safe…..just.doesn’t.add.up
I guess it really wasn’t the translator’s fault, then…
His assets, Suleiman’s assets, US banker’s assets…all need to be frozen and returned to the people they stole from. Now, that would be something.
Like we already did not know it.
That too: Mubarak goes rogue!!
angry scenes in Alexandria. crowd is now “fuming” and started to chant in anger and shouting even before Mubarak finished his speech. They have dispersed to head towards the military base.
I’m guessing it takes some talent & training to ferry ships thru, so if the guys who do it go on strike, not clear where the scabs would come from.
Oy.
His life is absolutely not safe…especially now.
what I said in 112, is happening already. This is so exciting!!!!!
Right on cue. The stalling over the past was done intentionally to allow for this to take place.
The commentators on AJE made it clear that it wasn’t the translation; it was Mubarak who was disjointed and weird in his speech. Mubarak, himself, hesitated, paused a lot and seemed to be sort of stuttering (but hard to tell in a foreign lang).
Peachy. Just. Fucking. Peachy.
we are about to witness a million people go bat shit insane.
Expect to see something you have never seen in your life.
This is a fascinating angle, huh.
Mubarak is collateral for the PTB and if he is “damaged,” well there’s always Sulieman waiting in the wings.
That’s my point….why would you want to hang onto power? He has more money now than his family will ever spend. Does he want to die that badly, or has someone assured him they’ve got his back?
Thank you ~ great info.
Figures. Did anyone expect anything else? Of course the USA will continue to
run gunssend weapons to Egypt.The USA does not have enough military force at its disposal to intervene. This is flag waving. CVA for Obama.
Egyptian commentator on AJ just as puzzled as we are.
I got your point, and I agree with you totally.
I’d go with the latter, but money isn’t really the issue for such as Mubarak. Power doesn’t cede power without a fight, and that applies to that old man, too.
“Getting radicalized”.
They are going to march on the Presidential palace.
Like he is stupid enough to actually be there.
Richard Engel – “Crowd may be getting ready to march on the presidential palace.”
Wow, I guess we get to see how far the powerful will go in clinging to their wealth and power.
AJE: what can Obama say in response to this???
Good effen question. NO doubt it’ll be lame.
CNN: People from the square are on the march..heading to the Corniche which leads to the television station or to the palace…Wow
The shoes, the shoes, that’s such a strong, deep statement.
What happened to the people in TS today is nothing less than crazymaking abuse! Not the way to handle a crowd, any crowd, or anyone but your most hated enemy.
The situation in Egypt is a non-event in Russia.
It’s very instructive, is it not? They’re not going to give a millimeter unless they have to…
If our military lets lose on Egytians, I hope people are ready for the trip to the Pentagon.
There is no way Mubarak is even in Cairo at this point, but the tanks are in front of the palace. I’m sure he’s at SES by now.
hey firedog !
current London bobblehead mistakely says Mubarak “transfered power” when in fact the speech said “delegate power” to Suleiman
But the “small people” ARE the *hated enemy* in the eyes of the powerful elites — eh?
Fareed Zakaria on CNN: apparently doesn’t understand that this is now life and death for the protesters and anyone who knows them. He thinks this is a waiting game. He does concede that Mubarak’s speech had a “delusional quality” and Mubarak’s in “a bubble.”
Fareed Zakaria – Mubarak’s words “delusional.”
The ONLY thing that power “has” is the power to destroy.
Power cannot understand.
Power cannot care.
Power cannot change.
Whatever carnage power shall create, power will never earn honor nor respect.
The ONLY currency of power, ultimately, when money will not save it, is fear.
Destruction and fear.
The essence of unlimited power is tyranny.
For power to remain, more people must hate justice, freedom, and truth than value those things …
In what nation may that be the case?
Not in Egypt.
And not even … here.
Mubarak represents power, just as Obama represents power.
Neither represent the people, whatever they may claim.
The people are not such fools as “leaders”, pundits, and certain lawyers imagine them to be.
In Egypt, the question, in the days ahead, will be this: Does the Egyptian military consider themselves to serve the people or power?
We might ponder the same question here.
DW
Wouldn’t Mubarak be surprised if he learns the palace is undefended?
And prolly in China too.
“Denial aint just a river in Egypt”
-Mark Twain
As the events in the Middle East unfold and watching the embers for the call of a participatory democracy are slowly being blown across the region, I can’t help but feel nothing but disgust at what is being done in my name as an American. These events have ripped down the curtain for what we call our foreign policy.
Many people often make the analogy that the USA is in a decline and often compare it to the fall of the Roman Empire; I however, prefer to use another more recent empire in which events like these in Egypt were identical. I speak of the British Raj period. We hear the all the pundits talking about this is another “Berlin Wall” moment however none would like to point out who is the “evil empire” in this scenario. Watching American made tanks, tear gas, and other weapons used in order to suppress the voice of the common people is just like watching what the British did to suppress Indian independence. The attempts to placate the people by changing viceroys and other minimally conciliatory steps were not enough to stop the full tide of what was to become a nation governed by its own people.
I hope that these events, which should not have taken anyone by surprise as much as the media would like you to believe, will cause us as Americans to examine more in what is supposedly done in our name. Rising food and fuel costs and mismanagement on a global scale will only incite more “Egypts”. As Martin Luther King was said, “Something is happening in our world. The masses of people are rising up. And wherever they are assembled today, whether they are in Johannesburg, South Africa; Nairobi, Kenya; Accra, Ghana; New York City; Atlanta, Georgia; Jackson, Mississippi; or Memphis, Tennessee — the cry is always the same: “We want to be free.”
Yeah, I was sort of being ironic. If anything, I’d have expected an official translation to make him look _better_, not worse.
Thank goodness for AJE.
And the feed seems quite good today.
Thank goodness also for FDL. Firepups are Teh Bestest.
Aaaaand, it looks like State TV is toeing the government line again–not showing current (angry) crowd…
Actually, I thought Zakaria said *Mubarak* didn’t understand this was life and death, that he didn’t understand their anger is “directed AT HIM.”
Crowd is chanting “Go GO,” “Leave Leave”
Mubarak said more than once that he was not going to take orders from anyone, which was a reference to Wash DC. But it wasn’t pressure from Wash DC, it was pressure from the Egyptian people. Mubarak may have been trying to use propoganda to indicate the pressure was from outside the country, but the people didn’t buy it.
Egyptian: Mubarak! Game over!
China blocked reports from Egypt right from the beginning.
“transfered power”
That’s what MSNBC is saying too.
I didn’t hear that….
lol..they better get out of the building!
Protesters wave shoes in dismay at Mubarak speech
Reporter for AJE says there is an Egyptian MSM just like ours, run by the government and directed at those who don’t have access to Satellite or internet. Close run race.
Absolutely! That’s what this demonstrates, the depth of hatred for the people. The deep desire to be rid of them … like a pesky wife who screams orders and does not obey.
AJ reporter characterizing what Mubarak is doing as a ‘hearts & minds campaign.’ Sounds a lot like U.S. h&m campaigns.
What’s your beverage of choice, teja?
He is dying of cancer. Germany said he could go to plush hospital there, but he had to be thinking about what just happened to Bush and know that he can be prosecuted for torture, he has not where to go.
You raise some excellent points. However expecting the bulk of US citizens to actually figure out what’s *truly* going on, and what OUR tax dollars are really paying for… well, not gonna happen any time soon.
probably nothing. he is so weak.
yes.
I sense there was violence at the broadcasting studio related to this turn of events.
Observation (AJE) “Silence from Washington DC, 30 minutes after end of the speech.”
something hot – we’re below freezing again!
Silence from Washington. Should we say, ‘schocked silence?’
jayt… Mubarak Won’t Leave Egypt But Passes Powers To Vice President
I guess it is pretty obvious where he’s going…down in flames.
Yes, I saw that. Just thought I’d remind. Doubt that Chinese authorities have changed their minds in the last two weeks.
There’s that, but he could’ve gone to Montenegro and probably avoided prosecution. I think he’s been directed by global PTB to suck it up and “take one” for the elites… it’s the global power structure that doesn’t want to “give in” to the Egyptian peoples’ demands, imo.
Admin’s response something like…oh really, we were told something else..no one could have anticipated…or something like that. SOS
I doubt they’re shocked, although I could be wrong. I’m sure DeeCee was informed in advance about what Mubarak would say.
Now DeeCee is trying to figure out their response.
I liked the part of the commentary about tumbleweeds blowing thru streets in D.C.
Gotta link to that?
Yeah: *acting* like: who would’ve guessed that Moobie would go so rogue and say THAT????
Egyptian veep speaking
Sulieman speaking now.
Suleiman’s up on state TV.
Suleiman now on. Has the facial animation of Eichman.
‘We have arrived at agreements.’ I agreed with Mubarak and he agreed with me.
Don’t tell me he’s picked Biden!
These guys have obviously been closely studying Obama’s meaningless speeches
“we have opened the door for dialogue…”
uh…the Egyptian People only had to use a battering ram!
Is it just me, or is this just more double-speak from Suleiman?
OMG. He said ‘road map.’ Hasn’t that phrase been permanently banned yet?
What I am afraid of, is the Egytian military has made it clear they will not fire own their own people, so now our military is going there to do it.
Thanks, seems I missed that meaning!
Suleiman: Me, I will, I will, me, I will…freedom, democracy…blah, blah..will not allow chaos…let us walk together on a new track…
That frikkin’ cracked me UP!
Posh accent couldn’t hide that li’l bit of cultural tone-deafness!
He’s making threats, just like Mubarak. This is going to come down to the army, as it always was.
Suleiman speaks of “the coming dialogues”.
ummm, with whom, pal?
obviously an optimist though.
The people didn’t get their copy of the script …
There it is:
“Go home”!
Oh, don’t listen to AJ…
Mubarak and Suleiman are the walking dead.
the silence from the WH means other avenues to solving the Egyptian problem will now be pursued.
Back to blaming sat-TV. LOL.
That is because they employ the same spy group that bank of america was employing against Wiki and Glenn Greenwald.
That’s it, Firefox dropped connection again, eating my post. I may have to go back to IE, dammit.
Just saying, Mubarak himself decided to stay on – he’s been dictator, staying in power by torture and secret police and a “state of emergency” 3 decades long, surrounded by yes-men.
That’s enough to explain it. The nature of the beast is that they do not step down voluntarily.
Every single world leader could have advised him to leave, and he would have ignored them. He believes he knows better; he believes “his” people love him.
He has decided, consciously or not, to follow all his kind in history: he will go out feet first.
Oh God
Did he just threaten the people with the Military?!
Better spoken, perhaps, but still tone-deaf.
Honestly, I don’t think so.
Yes
Yeah. I guess that’s something like “crickets…”
It is not just you.
in the traditon of Atrios: simple answers…
The revolution WILL be televised.
Probably true! lol
Did he just threaten the people with the Military?!
Sounded like it to me….
“Political Suicide”
“Double Insult”
This AJE commentator seems to get it.
We’d be happy to give Biden to Egypt, wouldn’t we.
Hot toddy? Coming down the toobz!
AJE tells it as it is: Suleiman the CIA point man, torturer in chief. You’d think he was blogging here.
Go home, go back to work.
Sounds familiar, Spend, spend, spend , peons!
That would be a personal insult for me.
Another asshole.
One good thing, more and more people are seeing our media for what it is.
Thanks…I’ll take it to go…been holding off on necessary errands, to hear Mubarak.
Aw gee, twitter has 21 new tweets…haveta read those first, some may be from #Tahrir..
lol! That says it.
Yes, this AJ guest is very good.
Here is a thought. Earlier today information was that Mubarak and Suleiman were “left out” of the military meetings. Maybe they just gave their own speeches…Maybe the military is actually who is in control, and Muby and Suly haven’t got the memo. Remember, their speeches were pre-recorded. Just throwing more “speculation” out there…mainly because I can’t take this reality we are witnessing without hoping something else is really what is happening….
Whoever that is commenting on AJE is pretty direct about Suleiman, the CIA, and Mubarak. He says tomorrow is going to be extreme.
Mubarak a puppet of the US and Saudis. Expendable.
Anyone catch the name of the current AJE commentator? He’s good. Damn good.
I put nothing past our regime.
The Shit Is Going To Hit The Fan serious.
Absolutely, it’s all in whether the army backs the regime.
The Irishman on AJE is very strong. Talking about a possible uprising in Bahrein now.
Fareed says Sulieman just sealed his fate by siding with Mubarak. Good.
W00t, maybe we’re not crazy after all?
*wink*
“Sheer lack of dignity of this man. Among the 3 top revolutions of history in terms of participation. Other countries fear domino effect.” AJ guest, who looks western but lived in Egypt for 10 years. Said he never met anyone who didn’t loathe Mubarak.
John Bradley, author of Inside Egypt.
Guest was author of Inside Egypt.
the last guy on AJE just said the same thing.
And so will I: good!
Thank you. I’ll look for more of his work.
That TORTURE is one big ball of yarn and if you go pulling at loose ends, who knows where that could lead and who else would be taken down and imprisoned?
There’s a lot of people here, tainted with torture blood, who don’t want the first torture investigations to begin, right little dickie ?
The only way Muby or Suly can remain in power is if the military supports them..that’s it. There is no other way. The military did not include either of them in their meetings earlier today.
Complete bullshit. Mubarak and Suleiman are sleepwalking. What is it going to take to wake them up?
Very interesting; had to turn the sound off.
Glad to hear that *someone* is pointing out what CIA goons Mubarak and Sulieman are, plus torturers.
Far too many US citizens are beyond *clueless* about this stuff. Hope this *wakes up* a few of the sheep.
I’m a student of the French Revolution (among other things), and this is starting to have the marks of one.
Well now, the plot thickens…
Sounds like a good diary subject, if you get a chance.
Al Jazeera commenter just mentioned Pharaohnic situation – exactly, Pharaoh hardened his heart and there was another plague. Two Millenia ago it was Let Us Go, now it’s You Go. I keep flashing on the Seder – Jewish first born sons fast the night before the seder in solidarity with the Egyptian firstborn who fell victim to the last plague that was instrumental in Jewish independence. In fact, I won’t read the part of the seder where the rabbis, in an exercise of magnifying G-d’s greatness, start multiplying the number of plagues. I remind my fellow celebrants that that ignores the suffering of the Egyptians during all this. (Truth be told, i find reasons to skip a lot of the text, but that’s for another discussion.)
I feel so hurt, and i think we all do. But i have faith this awesome, ancient civilization will birth something magnificent, and please Allah/G-d, the wicked all over the world will tremble and quit.
Edit to say Pharaoh meme was John Bradley
Are they asleep or being coerced to do this by the global power elite?? My bet – based on nothing other than my “gut” – is that the elites are pushing Mubarak and Sulieman to make at least one more “last stand” against the will of the “small people.” JMHO
There is a human chain around the State TV building.
Here’s John R. Bradley’s web site:
http://johnrbradley.wordpress.com/1-about-john-r-bradley/
I’d like to hear more about that, esp as my knowledge of the French revolution is sketchy at best.
From the BBC liveblog (this doesn’t look good):
Yeah, no kidding.
CNN live feed shows people on move, holding up giant flag.
Tweets from Tahrir say tomorrow will be massive demos, much bigger than before, that they will not wait.
One called Suleiman’s exhortation to “go home” the “first warning.”
There were reports earlier that state TV workers were leaving out of fear of retaliation.
Power to the People!!!
esp in fighting against corrupt propogandist media…
“… and please Allah/G-d, the wicked all over the world will tremble and quit.”
And another thing, what is with these guys “Homeland?” And did i hear Mubarak say something about crackng down on terrorists? Not nice at all.
How do you say “let them eat cake” in Arabic?
Panetta said Mubarak would step down.
Panetta did not say Mubarak was thinking about stepping down.
the CIA is not the peace corp.
Mubarak and Suleiman just made Panetta look like a fool, and
Me Think the people over at Langley are not Happy.
MSM: Is Muby trying to provoke violence in order for excuse to crackdown?
(just reporting what they are talking about)
It’s coming down to the wire: which way will the military go??
seconded!
see my 254 – not that you have to agree with me. But I like Occam’s Razor – the nature of dictators explains his action well enough, without having to bring in any outside pressures or encouragement.
In fact, I suspect that he may have heard advice to step down, and ignored it. Remember how much he talked about not listening to outside voices?
Thanks for the link. He certainly get the forecasting award, predicting Egyptian revolution in a book published in 2008. He’ll be my new hero.
Mubarak refuses to leave? Grant him his wish and seal him in his marble palace! Allow him to leave ~~~Edited by Moderator~~~.
I keep getting this message popping up on my computer: “Are you sure you want to delete the entire Mubarak regime?” And, I keep clicking “Yes!”
Got it that you’re reporting, but it’s certainly one possibility… which would be borne out if the military supports Mubarak and cracks down the the protestors… hope not.
Yup.
this is wishful thinking!
it is funny how the MSM ignores the other big player here! the MOSQUE
what are the MOSQUE leaders saying?
Me-Thinks we will be hearing from the RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF EGYPT soon.
Me-Thinks the Egytpian Military will not CROSS or ATTACK the MOSQUE
The really interesting question is: how much difference of opinion is there within the military?
Yes, bunch of tweets suggesting that right now.
That fits with the historical Dictator-under-Siege Playbook.
You have a good point. I did hear Mubarak say that quite a few times; so much that it was repetitive but notable. Hard to say… as has been cited here, Panetta was saying that Mubarak was definitely stepping down, then he didn’t. Speculation and $2.50 will get ya a cuppa coffee at your local coffee shop…
دعوهم baklava للأكل (‘let them eat baklava’)
It started with a financial crisis, which is not the situation in Egypt (it is in the United States). Those who wanted reform held the government in ransom, saying, give us a new Constitution and then we’ll give you the money. The parallel in Egypt at the present time is with Louis XVI’s refusal to compromise until it was too late; and every subsequent compromise he made was too late. Not to mention that he botched the escape to Germany,got caught with his wife, and was subsequently executed.
At least some segment of the military, I believe, is on the side of the people, so it’s hard to determine how far the military would go to use force against their brothers and sisters in this instance.
Check out his link #9 where he takes an “Economist” correspondent apart!
Heh. Indeedy!
I agree with eCHAN, you should write a longer post about these comparisons, but thanks for the summary… as it does highlight the salient points!
It’s really fascinating when some of the West’s modern cultural language pops up where it doesn’t belong!
Lol. Wow. Panetta gets punked.
Mmmmmm, baklava! (thanks…couldn’t bloody remember baklava).
‘cept sooooo many of these people don’t have a job to go back to
and can’t afford even fuul and felafel…
And many of those who do/can are human enough to care about their less fortunate fellows.
Yes, and I understand many are conscripts, which makes action against the protestors more problematic.
Could end up with factions supporting each side.
“Death or freedom, we will have freedom”.
One protesters comment when asked his opinion.
“We just want him to leave in peace, no more blood shed”.
Now I love him even more. Always have a special place in my heart for people who don’t mince words.
I wonder if a crackdown by the military could be the opening the Muslim Brotherhood needs to move in and exploit the situation. If, as Jedi wondered, the mosque factor kicks in, might the USA get the worst of all results? Not that we might not deserve it, you understand.
No shit, I just heard another guy,
” Give me liberty or give me death”.
Catchy little saying I see.
Ordinarily I might well agree with you, madma, but the ‘Murkan military is overstretched and unless Obama plans to send in “contractors” which would be a huge mistake, but not beyond the wisdom of “our” “leadership”, certainly, we don’t have a military “option” to apply.
No, this time we are not in a “position” to send in troops OR mercenaries.
Perhaps the “coalition of the willing” might be “willing” but I doubt it.
Would we send money for the political “old guard” to hire mercenary killers? Prolly, but that would still be understood by millions of people.
My concern regarding the Egyptian military is that the older officers were trained by the Russians and the young ones by America … that friction, potential or otherwise, will, quite possibly, determine what the Egyptian military will do … long-term, as well as short.
DW
Ayyiyi–again with the Muslim Brotherhood?
Have you been paying attention to the people who know what they’re talking about?
He certainly seems worthy of that place in your heart!
202-456-1111 please call O and tell him to stop supporting torturer. i have been on hold for quite some time…. cook the lines
The MOTUs and PTB’s are pleased… US STOCKS-Mubarak speech sparks late gain…
Guest talking about military on AJ. Retired military spy guy. Sez should wait for news release from military, might say Mubarak is sick & cannot perform….
Calls Mubarak schizoid.
Interesting.
A mistake. Cannot interpret situation at all.
Glad he’s as puzzled as we all are.
I think it’s time for #AmericasJan25
I have VERY high standards for speaking one’s mind. You may have noticed. *g*
According to Presstv
Of course the you have to consider the source is a protester, but at the same time, if the Generals order the army to shoot their own people they’d have all hell breaking loose
Much like the usual market response to announcements by corps. of massive layoffs,for example, or famine in an agricultural region: the market is always on the side of wrong.
I think the main reason the Egyptian Military has sit by and watch is because upper Egyptian Military Leaders do not know if their Grunts will follow them or the Mosque
the USG probably fears the idea of the Egyptian Military falling a part, and the Egyptian Religious Leaders taking over.
the CIA does not make crazy statements, Panetta said Mubarak would step down.
Panetta is probably FURIOUS at the present time.
The events over the next couple of days may put the RELIGIOUS leaders of EGYPT in control, this is the worse possible solution for the USG and ISRAEL.
MSM: Is Muby trying to provoke violence in order for excuse to crackdown?
ABsolutely! I fear the reprisal of the wealthy. They will be using everything at their disposal to keep nthe little people in line, including violence. Their army has a decision to make, whethert to kill their brothers and sisters or jion them in overthrowqing M.
Please, army, do the right thing…
Thanks. You put it more succinctly and civilly than I would have.
It was nice to be without the “ooga booga, scary Mooslimz” comments for an hour or so, though.
lather, rinse, repeat: EGYPT is _EGYPT_. EGYPT is NOT Iraq. EGYPT is NOT Iran.
Could backfire, might be considered an act of aggression.
AJ reports O meeting with Nat Sec Council.
Heh.
More from the BBC:
The plot thickens…
See 324. That was a very interesting guest & read on Mubarak.
Fuckers.
The rich jerks throw their piles of money around on schemes to make *more* money while regular people who only want their most basic human needs met with dignity fill the streets.
. You put it more succinctly and civilly than I would have.
LOL. Unusual for me. I tend to the prolix.
Thanks. Onitgoes and I have been speculating about possibilities along these lines.
Nahhhh, you play that pretty close to the vest! *g*
Hmmm, if the demonstrators are “heroes” for opposing the dictatorship, it’s only natural to believe they will be double heroes for opposing the dictatorship after they’ve been told they have been heard and that they should now go home.
I guess OBAMA and the CIA are thru talking
Mubarak and Suleiman better get to the AIR PORT quick
Me-THinks the talking and begging is over.
the USG cannot let the Religious Leaders of Egypt take over Egypt.
AJ anchor asks guest obvious Q: What do you think M accomplished by this, saying the same thing he said last week. Clueless U.S. guest blames M advisers.
I always thought you were the shy and retiring type. :)
I’m not scared of muslims, but IMO the world is not best served by instituting religious law anywhere. Egyptians get to decide what kind of laws they want and MB isn’t in the majority.
In case you haven’t fu*king noticed, the Egyptians themselves clearly have no intention of allowing their Religious Leaders take over. Those Religous Leaders have been very peripheral to the situation so far, and will continue to be. Honestly! You think the protestors are just waiting for some sort of Mooslim Messiah to appear?
Talk about patronizing!
AJ guest with remarkable command of the obvious calls it a ‘political stalemate.’
I think that was snark…
MOTO = Master Of The Obvious.
Interesting explanation from an Arabic speaker for why there was some confusion as to what exactly Mubarak was delegating. from CNN’sBen Wedeman.
Twitter –
don’t under estimate the power of the Religion
I did not say the people in the tahir square wanted the Religious Leaders to take over,
However, if things go south, few organizations will maintain some type of structure
the military will be 1
and the MOSQUE will be the other 1
the USG don’t like option number 2, having a shot at taking over.
when you have chaos, those who are organize will come out on top.
Good one.
I’m going to unglue myself from my computer for a short while.
It’s been real; wish the outcome were the opposite.
It’s also been interesting to hear the instant analysis by J guests. I’m sure it’s far superior to talking heads on U.S. corp media.
Another AJ guest calls Mubarak senile or crazy.
What. he gets to decide what’s for dinner?
/S.
The EU’s Ashton has just released a statement(PDF!) on Mubarak’s tone deaf speech…
The problem is there are so many possible answers.
One is that the word has been out that Mubarak was going to speak. If factons in the military knew it was going to be hand over to Suleiman and that the protestors would not be happy and things would drag and drag – one way to light a fire towards a resolution would be to undercut Mubarak’s timing, get on air first, prime the pump with promises he was going to be gone, get people to a fever frenzy – all of which would pretty much set up a more intense backlash to his speech.
IOW, if they guys who went on air aren’t on the same page with Mubarak, that could have been an effort to get him to think twice (when he saw the response to their news) and intensify the reaction against him if he didn’t agree to give in.
BTW – I missed this from the very beginning, but the Economist has a piece up about Suleiman’s secret police destroying evidence from early on
http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2011/01/unrest_egypt_0
Ah…or a quotation of usual US M$M cultural ignorance?
I hope so…
I think they are highlighting the evacuation (and they should have evac plans for Americans with all the volatility) but I’d guess that reassuring Israel that borders will get coverage no matter what is an even bigger element.
Last friday when Mubarak ordered the military to fire on the protestors, Robert Fisk witnessed, the tank drivers take off the throw their helmets and call home to their fathers, who are retired military , to ask what to do. They said, of course, you can not fire on our people.
Interesting link. Thanks.
My mistake. I see by the response above that I was wrong. I guess I was hoping it was snark.
Mubarak to All of Egypt’s people::
……..…../´¯/)……….. (¯`
…………/….//……….. …\….
………../….//………… ….\….
…../´¯/…./´¯………../¯ `….¯`
.././…/…./…./.|_……_| .….….……
(.(….(….(…./.)..)..(..(. ….)….)….).)
.……………./…/….. ../……………./
..…………….. /……..……………..…/
….…………..(………. ..)……………./
I am staying and there is NOTHING You can do about it so
……..…../´¯/)……….. (¯`
…………/….//……….. …\….
………../….//………… ….\….
…../´¯/…./´¯………../¯ `….¯`
.././…/…./…./.|_……_| .….….……
(.(….(….(…./.)..)..(..(. ….)….)….).)
.……………./…/….. ../……………./
..…………….. /……..……………..…/
….…………..(………. ..)……………./
A poll taken, showed MB only getting 15%.
Uh, yeah,
see #351 and tell me that was snark.
Jeebus on a Ritz Cracker.
“I’ve got my narrative, don’t confuse me with facts! If you insist on facts, I will torture them to fit my narrative!”
OK, must do some other things now. Thanks, Pups. It’s been real.
See me @361
Juan Cole also brought this to light.
there is clearly a breakdown of command in the Military
s’OK, Kris!
we’ve all gotta keep some optimism, don’t we!
Yah, I posted 364 before I read your 361…
Liveblogging RAWKS!
You use the term MOSQUE as if it is monolithic. It is not.
If you Replaced Egypt with Italy. and Mosque with Church, you would see how incorrect your statement is. While the CHURCH is certainly important in Italy, no way would it act as a monolithic institution in response to a similar situation.
It would be wise to un-learn some prejudice.
They may just be trying to piss the people to start some violence so they can crack down.
tell me the date
I’m not sure this one is train-able, but thanks for trying.
Good to see ya, mon!
Got any Opera Rants in the pipeline?
I’m thinking president’s day. February 21st. Enough people will already have the day off to be able to gather. I just don’t even know how to begin to get the word out.
Hey there!
Yes, 2 actually. Only weakly developed so far.
Another bit of interesting info to keep in the mix
Field Marshal Tantawi was the one promising Mubarak would go, IIRC from everyone’s posts. He’s also the guy that the US was very snotty about in some of the wikileakss cables
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/world/middleeast/06military.html
So from a different aspect, a very upset crowd opens the door to military action against them. The leaks called him Mubarak’s poodle.
Also interesting form the article,” top officials concede that neither Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates nor Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have especially deep relationships with their Egyptian counterparts”
You said it with no links, but yeah.
Mubarak is much richer than Gatsby. With that kid of money he could call in an asteroid strike.
I could not believe this. What comes to mind (and I don’t sympathize with these dictators in their folly as I did somewhat with Alec Guiness’s character) is the madness depicted in ‘Bridge over the River Kwai’ and the dumbfounded reaction of the rescuing American sent to blow up the bridge. It is that kind of a moment.
I guess those billions rot your soul.
I don’t have any expectation that anything like that could happen (now), but I like the symbolism.
Although, in my experience, it’s mostly government employees who get the day off; the rest pretty much work. Especially retail; all those mattress sales, y’know.
Interesting piece by Cordesman lifted and reprinted at DoD Buzz
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/02/10/what-who-to-watch-after-mubarak/
Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/02/10/what-who-to-watch-after-mubarak/#ixzz1DbCwFlpH
Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/02/10/what-who-to-watch-after-mubarak/#ixzz1DbCcXuHB
Also this re the real military:
“… most — like other Egyptians — have been subject to surveillance by Egypt’s oppressive intelligence services”
325,000 in the central security services – I didn’t realize it was that high.
the Muslim Brotherhood is not a player we all know this.
if there is chaos, and things go down hill
BeachPopulace and I were talking about who will rise from the ashes after the shit hits the fan.
the question must be asked who and what will rise from the ashes?
1. military
2. religious groups
3. some political parties
the USA of all places should know the power of religion, the current GOP is full of right wing religious zealots
the CIA does not just go around making dumb statements. Panetta said Mubarak would step down.
so the USG, at the present time has no idea where Egypt is heading
Can there still be that many US citizens there yet?
It’s been a week and a half since the State Dept ordered departure notice
Yea, and I think reassuring Israel has a lot to do with it
Reassuring Israel and keeping the Suez Canal open, IMHO. Also, possibly destroying any evidence of torture and rendition.
please follow along the narrative
read 380
when all hell break lose in EGYPT who is going to take over?
Juan Cole says the Egyptian military has cracks in it
what and who do you think will take over?
we were just speculating
Panetta just made it clear to everyone in the USA, that the USG has no idea what is going to happen in Egypt
Panetta said Mubarak would step down today, well that did not happen
Lots of interesting threads of discussion in the Cordesman piece
Let us hope, madma, that the officer corps, young and old, take that admonishment to heart.
If the Military behaves with impeccable humanity, then the people will triumph, and truth and justice and freedom will have a chance, and may flourish.
If the Military desires order above justice, then the people will lose … for a time, and truth and justice and freedom will suffer … but the people’s desire for those three things will not go away.
DW
@ ElBaradei : Egypt will explode. Army must save the country now
I saw that, too. I hope he’s right. And I hope the Army does the right thing.
Elbaradei must be asking for the Egyptian Military to ignore Mubarak and Suleiman
it is going to be interesting to see how the USG now handles this situation
me thinks the talking phase is over,
Could go both ways. They do not want Israel invading the Sinai again either.
This is really interesting too
Kind of confirms what I’ve been thinking. But who knows the true story
Corporate colonialism must come to an end. The American colonies in the Middle-East are rising up because too many years of piss-poor mismanagement. Allowing dictators to be he voice of the people because it is economically convenient should no longer be America’s foreign policy.
wow.
Hey, I’m not one of those crackpots running around screaming, “Oh, the MB, Moooslims, BOOGA BOOGA.” I’m just wondering if a transition to a violent confrontation between reformers and the old guard might end up giving the MB an opening to exploit the situation. You know, that old “an enemy of my enemy is my friend” short-term thinking that plays out in ways that can’t be foreseen and/or are unintended.
Are we sufficiently downthread enough to post something slightly off topic?
An American/Egyptian is arrested facing death for importing hemp oil – the import documents were mistranslated as ‘hash oil.’ This is cruelly ironic as hemp seed nutrition could stave off famine from wheat shortages.
American Facing Death Penalty
Discover the Superfood Power of Hemp
yes — and the right thing for the Army to do to is to unleash “holy hell” unto these protesters !!
Dammit this is what Buck Ofama and Hillary Clinton were hoping for.
Hillary went on about a peaceful transition to the VP…who was appointed last ****ing week and how the protestors should call it a win…
Like how our economy is in a “jobless recovery” or obama winning the afghan war for the thousandth time.
Way epu’d, but I can’t get that link to work. :(
@394 – not enough people want them, no matter which way it breaks. I think Mubarak has wider support.
@395 – Thanks for the links.