The strategy by Republicans to force the President to take a position on deficit cuts, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security is more transparent than one of Lady Gaga’s outfits. Tom Coburn, supposedly a personal friend of the President, describes it as a leadership deficit. Because the only person who is able to lead on these issues is the guy without a vote in the lawmaking body. What kind of leadership is it from a “leader” like Tom Coburn, actually, asking someone else to lead so they can follow? It’s laughable that Coburn claims members of Congress must be “willing to sacrifice their careers” over the issue when he isn’t willing to do anything without Barack Obama moving first.
But just to show how this strategy can work, take a look at what Democratic pollster Geoff Garin told members of the Senate at a retreat. This is the kind of cracker-jack advice given to national Democrats.
Democratic senators gathered at a Virginia resort last week to plot political strategy got alarming news from a trusted pollster: Republicans are winning the debate over dealing with the budget deficit.
The Democrats learned that while the public’s top concern is improving the economy, more voters view cutting spending rather than investing as the best way to do so. And right now, they trust Republicans more to do the trimming [...]
The message for Democrats, Garin said in an interview, is that their dispute with Republicans “can’t be framed as a debate between dealing with the deficit and not dealing with the deficit.” Democrats “have to make sure that this is posed in terms of the right way and the wrong way” to reduce the deficit “in a way that won’t harm the economy,” he said.
This is reflected in all the messages you see out of Democrats, including the very top. White House Budget Director Jack Lew welcomed the grand bargain talks yesterday himself, while not embracing specifics.
Never mind that Garin’s research does not match with virtually all the public polling out there, that shows jobs and the economy with a much greater level of importance (or rather, it does, if you read the full article; Garin just looks at it differently and sees what he wants to see). Never mind that fears about “the deficit” is merely a stand-in for economic performance, and that they go up when the conservative noise machine trains its sights on a Democrat in the White House, regardless of whether deficits go up or down (see the polling on the deficit when Clinton was busy balancing the budget). Consumed by fear, Garin insists that Democrats play on the Republican’s side of the field, and try to out-cut them. The implications for real people doesn’t really matter in this game.
Republicans are so gutless that simply refusing to get involved would be enough to put a stop to this. But going into what looks to be a government shutdown in two weeks, one side is saying we have to cut and the other side is also saying we have to cut, just in different places. That doesn’t bode well for the resolution.
Meanwhile, here’s some better advice for Democrats.




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About FDL News Desk
A “debate” normally has two sides, not “We’re right!” and “Yes, you are, only not quite so much.”
Pollsters are the political commissars and ideological policemen of the Democratic Party. They’re there to nip in the bud any effort to move toward real progressive politics. They’ve killed the party, and made a lot of money in the process.
US Capitol Switchboard Toll-free Numbers:
1-866-220-0044 1-877-851-6437 1-800-833-6354 1-888-355-3588 1-866-808-0065 1-877-762-8762
Call your congresscritters and cite this post. And this CBS News poll:
http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
CBS News Poll. Feb. 11-14, 2011. N=1,031 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.
“What do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?” Open-ended
%
Economy and jobs
48
Budget deficit/National debt
7
Health care
6
War/Iraq/Afghanistan
4
Education
3
Big government/Bureaucracy
3
Crime
2
Misc. social issues
2
Other
21
Unsure
4
The House is still in session:
(202) 224-3121 | TTY: (202) 225-1904
“The Democrats learned that while the public’s top concern is improving the economy, more voters view cutting spending rather than investing as the best way to do so.”
- So they’re not wrong. The voting public is stupid.
Dday:
Is there any way to write Garin and ask him what he’s been smoking?
No kidding! (Or ask who’s paying him.)
David,
I thought it would be appropriate to express my appreciation for all the “yeoman’s work” you have accomplished here at the Lake for these past few weeks, given that Tunisia and Egypt has been front and center.
Again, my Thanks!
Jaango
They are stupid in that they don’t recognize how much the government does. Where the rubber hits the road is when you ask them what they would cut. Funnily enough they pretty much keep everything that does boost the economy and lose the stuff that the beltway considers untouchable. IOW, Defense gets cut. Unemployment, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, etc does not get cut. But you can bet Garin stops before telling them that.
Essentially, every friggin’ democrat needs to be hit daily with Screw the President – if you cut anything cut defense and then get us jobs. Oh, and screw his free trade agreement as well, it is – to use a republican meme- a job killer!
Shouldn’t that headline read “Democratic Pollster” – as in ONE pollster? And one that nobody has ever heard of?
Democrats are fucking morons…
We need a study group, maybe here at FDL, maybe larger, to read and absorb, in a very deep sense, the meaning of a Lakoff frame. The pollsters are not asking the right questions, or they are not framing the questions properly. They then have no choice but to collect this kind of answers. If you specifically ask targeted questions around a truly progressive tax policy, that taxes the rich, and a business tax policy that pushes businesses to hire in the U.S., and a tariffs and trade policy that favors American manufacturing, and a manufacturing policy and social policy that favors regenerating the American work initiative, you’ll get 70% the way you do when you accurately poll the New Deal.
It’s all about framing. Concede the frame and you might as well not even have the argument, you’re on the wrong playing field.
So how about it? Let’s stop using Republican terminology to define the debate, and start talking about making businesses and billionaires pay-as-they-go for what they receive from American society. If you hire elsewhere or refuse to hire, the money won’t be yours, because the tax break was for creating jobs, and you’ve broken your contract with America.
Where are these polls coming from? Are they push polls? This is ridiculous. All the evidence suggests that people put jobs way ahead of deficit reduction. Do the pollster`s give a menu that would include choices as to how the deficit is to be reduced? Do responders get to state a preference as between cuts to their SS and tax hikes on the rich? I doubt it very much.
These have to be push polls.
It’s fucking amazing isn’t it? That HCR actually reduces or can reduce the deficit and the biggest thing to reduce it is the tax cuts given to the rich. Instead of that we will get cuts in social programs so the rich fuckers can get richer. WTF are we doing? maybe the only way to resolve anything is to go to the streets.
Even Teabaggers and nominal Right Wing voters are getting war (GWOT) weary. But you won’t hear that on the MIC-owned MSM.
ObamaIl Reagan Condom Part Deux has been a huge disappointment on all fronts.Jesus, what a tremedous jerkoff we elected. What poor fucking choices we had.
Ah, he’s Hillary’s old pollster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Garin
Kinda explains a lot.
Did somebody promise Garin his own private island?
The last thing the Dems need to do now is listen to him or play on the repug courts. Fer Gawd’s sake, Y’all! How many more elections do Dems have to lose before they can see reality?
Stop acting like a repug, stop playing like a repug, and please stop talking like one!
As I stated below on the Party Line, we have to go to Capitol Hill. Protesting the White House is useless. The masses have to go to the Hill where Congress spends their legislative hours, not at the WH fence.
If Obama plays this like he did HCR and makes a backroom deal to cut SS and Medicare, I’m ready to impeach.
Just saying!
Jane said that the Democrats lied to their politicians last year about the popularity of the HCR fiasco. This sounds like a rerun only the Prez is leading the misinformation campaign.
I will admit to being naive enough to think that if someone other than HRC were the nominee,
the next four years would be populated by more than Clinton retreads. And Bush retreads.
It is always easy to see our side of the conversation. What the other side sees is that we are asking to borrow money from china to add bureaucrats to the government at all levels. We have not really framed the arguement well.
Even in the case of Wisconsin we are viewed as wanting some families to pony up more cash so our unionized teachers can have their jobs permanently ensured with no potential for losing their position.
I think we are losing the debate.
The frustrating thing is all of a sudden obama is actually doing a few progressive things. He started some kind of business program and is pushing for high speed rail. Id like to know where the hell these things have been in the past 2 years when he was kissing rethug ass as much as possible. I imagine hes gearing up for reelection. As much as these programs are desparately needed i still wouldnt vote for his corrupt arrogant ass.
It doesnt help that the dems have been spewing the deficit bs themselves now for how long?
Get ready..he will.
If???
PW, last year I wrote Speaker Pelosi a very nice letter about the long term unemployed. I asked her to address it and think about all of us when she was in session before the end of the year.
I haven’t heard a word back. What does that tell me? EVERYTHING!
This is good news for the intelligent left!!!
Now we know in 2012, we have 23 morons calling themselves Dems trying to get re-elected, any human that listens to GARIN needs to look into renting a U-HAUL in 2012, because they will be leaving DC for good.
un-employment claims just went up,
gas is heading toward $4.00 a gallon
states are laying off teachers, policemen and women, firemen and women, etc.
the USA has been in a Depression since 2008
and GARIN thinks people number 1 concern is the DEFICIT.
A smart senator would have ask GARIN, how many votes do you control Garin?
because there are people who read FDL, that control millions of votes and will determine who wins and loses in 2012.
Senators up for election in 2012, better read more FDL, and pay little to no attention to MORONIC pollsters name GARIN.
people like GARIN are DINOSAURS! and must be treated as such
Then he needs to be Impeached! Those laws should fall on Congress to change or do away with. I will also find some way to legally force my insurance payments.
That’s like our own Government telling the people that have paid for Govt. Insurance all their lives that they reserve the right to default on us.
Do we have the right to default on the payments or our taxes?
OBAMA is no DUMMY, he is just a trojan horse
a below avg democratic president would have focus on getting the USA econ moving not OBAMA,
Obama intentionally let the USA econ take a nose dive, while he and the other phoney dems went and made Health Insurance companies Rich.
Obama and the DEMS are not Morons, they think we ARE!
the only issue in the USA been Jobs and the Econ for 2 years.
Obama intentionally brought the GOP back to life.
if FDR had won in 2008, the GOP would now be in shambles and hated by 80% of the USA.
These people in all of these elected positions are an entity unto themselves…they are corrupt, cold, cruel, self-centered, greedy, stupid, manipulative, dangerous, and never, ever to be trusted. Every last one of them.
He opens his mouth and sometimes utters words that could be interpreted as progressive, but he is lying. Again.
I was being sarcastic of course when i said i was frustrated. This whole kissing ass of the progressives is typical of the entire dem party. They spend 99% of their time destroying the country for their own gains and then 1% kissing the electorates ass so they can get relected. It works pretty well actually. Really hope theres an independent running in 2012. Really hope the choice isnt between two assholes as it usually is.
And the electorate? Lazy arrogant stupid and full enablers. I mean we have a government that doesnt even bother to hide their criminal acts. And yet we reelect them over and over and over again and even make excuses up why its ok that they are doing these horrible things.
Cut deficits?
We didn’t go to the moon by cutting deficits. We didn’t win WW2 by cutting deficits, nor did we help deliver food during the Berlin Airlift by cutting deficits. We didn’t build the Hoover Dam or the Interstate Highway
by cutting any deficits.
Cutting deficits!? I can’t believe people are falling for this shit.
Excellent comment. thanks
Not only that but the idea of taxing the rich is now considered simply insane.
The Democratic Party is long past its sell-by date. Its continued existence is an obstacle to progress.
Here here!
What do you expect from an electorate who can name all the “American Idol” judges and none of the justices of the Supreme Court?
Absolutely agree.
I cant name either. Not sure what that makes me. :-). But very true.
Ding. It is the most ridiculous thing they’ve come up with lately and the sheeple eat it up.
Is Garin some kind of translation of Rasmussen that I’m unaware of?
If the Dems cant save social security, what good are they,,,
A few months ago it was all about tax cuts,,now its all about we are flat Broke as a nation..Hell even MSNBC was parroting the line today..
If were broke, just bankrupt on the treasuries we owe the Chiness and Japs….Let them do without,,,,
How about…
Balanced budget,,,Repugs cut taxs and again cut taxes…Then launched 2 wars,,not one but two by borrowing money from the frikin chinese…Then they bitch about the deficit and how we have to curb entitlements…
and Dems look like a bunch of deer with a spot light on them,,,they have nothing to say…
How about..
1. We propose bring the tax rate back to clinton levels when we had a surplus
2. We propose bring all the troops home including closing bases in 50% of our over seas locations.
3. We propose allowing every american to buy in at cost to medicare.
4. We Propose to allow medi care to negotiat for Drugs
And Finally….
5. We propose making Social Security perminent at 25 of ALL THE INCOME MADE BY EVERY BODY…NOT STOPPED AT $96K,,
Here is your frikin winning ticked DumbAzz
Otherwise,,get ready for more back benching
You will always lose a debate when you never actually advocate for your position, or point out the fallacy of the oppositions.
The “debate” goes something like this.
Polling: Most people think investing is the better option to grow the economy, and virtually all the economists.
GOP: Spending bad, need to cut evil government spending.
Dems: Crickets.
GOP: Drumbeat: Spending bad, we need to cut evil government spending and evil unions, who collectively bargain so effectively, that all our jobs have been outsourced, our economy ruined.
Dems: Crickets. (Could point out fallacy of GOP argument, opinion of economists, McCain’s economic adviser on effectiveness of spending/investment vs. cuts to create jobs and reduce deficits; could point to historical record of GOP and Dems on same; or what happened during Great Depression when FDR cut; or the fact that those evil unions have bargained so effectively that real income for americans has been flat/declining over the last 40 years). More crickets.
More polling: Shift towards GOP position.
Dem “Strategy”: We must cave in, the public is against us.
Rinse and repeat on every single issue.
Moral: Being a walking personification of female genitalia all the time doesn’t help to shift public opinion in your favor, even when your opposition are obviously the walking personification of male genitalia.
Is this the same pollster that came up with the idea that reforming health insurance was the most important thing as soon as Obomba took office, as Americans were losing their jobs by the thousands, and their savings as the banks were bailed and took their houses?
Garin is another yes man for OB and the Dems…as I have said often..we need a massive march on Washington; massive calls and protests at the major media outlets….someone needs to take the lead on this…
When we hear this type of trash talk , these are not really democrats. They are republicans which have been waiting under the name of a democrat , until the time they were needed to help the progressive of these corporate republican policies to pass.
Oh, noooww they want to cut budget deficits.
Where were these “Democratic” pollsters around the time when President Obama and Republicans busted the federal budget for years to come by extending Bush era budget-busting deficit-exploding tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent along with other tax breaks for the freeloader corporate/investor class?
The Bush/Cheney administration exploded the federal budget by close to $5 trillion over eight years, and noooowww conservatives are concerned about budget deficits? Conservative insanity and greed will be the death of America and the American dream for tens of millions of U.S. families and their children. Every time Republicans “win,” ALL Americans lose. Our elderly lose. Our children lose. The American middle-class loses. The poor lose.
Another way to put this is that every time Republicans “win,” the enemies of America win, too. The Chinese Communists win. The al Qaeda and Taliban win. Foreigners who want to see America brought to her knees win, whether political, or economic, or religious enemies of our liberal democracy.