This is priceless. Ian Murphy of Buffalo Beast (the site appears to be down at the moment, but twolf1 has posted both videos on MyFDL) called up Gov. Scott Walker, posing as wealthy industrialist and campaign donor David Koch. They had a 20-minute chat. Here’s an excerpt:
Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this […]
Walker: [...] I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.
Koch: Joe—Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.
Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me…[bashes NY Senator Chuck Schumer, who was also on the program.]
Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski; she’s a real piece of ass.
Walker: Oh yeah.
Throughout the call, Walker boasts about his media appearances and strategizes with Koch. Some may say that there’s nothing damning in the call. The idea of the Governor of Wisconsin admitting that he thought about planting bad actors inside the protest crowds doesn’t look too good.
And I would argue that its existence is damning enough. There are tens of thousands of Wisconsin citizens outside in Madison, inside the Capitol Rotunda, who cannot get an audience with Scott Walker. “David Koch” can call and talk to him for 20 minutes. This power imbalance is at the heart of our corporate-captured government. Without a strong citizen’s movement, people like the Koch Brothers would have all the access, all the influence, and all the power. And they would get legislation written their way, protecting and furthering their interests.
And best of all, Murphy didn’t have to pretend to be a pimp or a prostitute in order to do it. Or, depending on your opinion of Mr. Koch, he did.
So yes, Scott Walker was Breitbarted here, but I think the larger point about access is very important for people to understand.
UPDATE: More from Adam Weinstein.
UPDATE II: Walker office has now confirmed that the call is real:
“The Governor takes many calls everyday. Throughout this call the Governor maintained his appreciation for and commitment to civil discourse. He continued to say that the budget repair bill is about the budget. The phone call shows that the Governor says the same thing in private as he does in public and the lengths that others will go to disrupt the civil debate Wisconsin is having.”
The Center for Media and Democracy has asked for a list of all phone calls made by Walker over the past couple weeks.
UPDATE III: Should have also mentioned Walker’s devious plan to get the Wisconsin 14 back in the Capitol:
Walker: An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it… the reason for that, we’re verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it’s turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.




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IF this is verified, Ed Schultz will spend an entire show on it :D
jeebus this is hilarious
Cue Nelson: HA ha!
I can never get over how stupid people like Walker really are. Even if it’s theater, I think it captures the essence of the man.
Too funny. I’ll bet Walker was pissin’ his pants thinking he was actually talking to David Koch.
It’s repulsive but I understand the logic behind it.
What the right continually fails to understand is that if you engage in this type of behavior that eventually the other side will do the same.
Namecalling, bullying, misrepresentation- the right figured they’d own and trademarked those talents. Guess what? What comes around goes around and if YOUR legislators act if its a legitimate means to gather intel then don’t be surprised when it’s utilized against you at a later date.
(shaking my head)
I’m not sure the call will convince anyone on the fence on collective bargaining. It does speak to Walker’s charecter though and will likely tank his presidential aspirations if he had any.
It’s him. And he just spilled the beans on everything.
My own personal favorite parts:
– His evasiveness when “Koch” asked him about how whether the Dems would fold on the collective-bargaining plank (he immediately went off into a bizarre tangent on unions paying for hotel rooms)
– His praising the front-paged anti-union blather written up by the NYT’s Paunch Sulzberger, tacitly admitting that the NYT (or at least the Sulzberger clan) is in the Koch tank.
Nicely phrased.
Ian Murphy saw a Moron “Gov Walker” and treated him like one!
I love it.
Obama and the Phoney Dems in Dc, would have tried to have an intelligent conversation with Gov. Walker.
Intelligent Humans know a Moron when they see one, good one Mr. Murphy
this is PRICELESS :)
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen:
This simply must be pushed all over the state of Wisconsin, whether or not it is “legitimate”…I happen to think it is legit but as a resident of “Cheeseland” and the spouse of a teacher who has been goin for 32 years and was prepared to retire next year, I want to say that the state is teetering right now and somethin like this could blow the lid off. The teachers and cops and firefighters all know that if we lose this one the rest of the country is once and truly fucked.
So come on Firepups let’s have some ideas about gettin this thing viral and puttin it out there nationally. I’m goin back ta Madison with my wife tomorrow, the teachers around the state are locked in to takin personal days and workin within their contracts so the only real permanent presence at the capitol are the out of work, students and retired folks. Please, those of you Firepups in Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and Michigan please take a day trip if you can cuz if we get through Friday and Governor Skippy furloughs the prison guards we will have a few thousand more permanent demonstrators and then we got the ball in the “red zone”.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN OUR FIGHT!!
fyi
I do think it’s real – just given our ridiculous Village (see: ACORN), a lefty action like this will not get much national air time less it’s verified
Are you saying it might not really be Gov. Walker on the call? I didn’t even think of that, but if it’s legit it’ll be viral alright.
Good luck, Norske.
Well, this is great, but is it gonna go MSM?
I mean, I know that we’re doing our part, but this joy really needs to be shared. :o)
been hoping to see you here Citizen Flamethrower
bless you and all those in WI for lighting this fire ! – hope by now you’ve seen there is a call for NATIONAL SOLIDARITY ACTION at EVERY state capitol this Saturday
Per Twitter, local news reporter on the ground in Madison, Jessica Arp from Channel 3:
I have some misgivings about this only bc it does lend some sense of legitimacy to the Breitbart junk. And unfortunately, while Breitbart’s confabulations are *always* given legitimacy by the corporate-owned rightwing media (even when it’s undeniably proven that Breitbart has lied and made up stuff that didn’t even happen), it’s unlikely that the corporate-owned rightwing media will even acknowledge this.
That said: it would be good to see this story grow legs mainly because:
This phone call (if it really happened) is much more important than that French Canadian pwned phone call to Sarah Palin pretending to be Sarkosy. That just made Palin look like the buffoon she is.
This phone call, on the other hand, shows the power, sway and influence of the corporate elites over our supposedly “elected” officials, and how the elites are effectively running our govt to the detriment of the will of the people.
woo hoo ! thx Kel
Is there a way citizens can fund the WI senators if Walker and his cronies try to hold their paychecks hostage?
As far as I’m concerned these guys are patriots. I’d be more than happy to contribute to helping them stick to their principles.
Mother Jones seems to have verified this….
(UPDATE, Wednesday, Feb. 23, 10:30 a.m.: The Beast’s site has crashed, presumably because of the traffic this story is generating. Huffington Post reporter Sam Stein just tweeted that he has spoken to the site’s publisher, who says the call is “absolutely legit,” and was made via Skype. So they’re standing by their story, at least.)
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-call-wisconsin
I believe cenk will be a must see today!
This is President Sarkozy calling Sarah Palin… /s
Walker: “Thanks a million.”
You got that right
Citizen cbl:
The only places I been in the last 2 weeks is here and Madison, with the occasional Democratic meeting and city council meet-ups. I can’t tell you how important this thing is now for literally millions around the country. My wife and I are not only lookin at $561 a month off the top but my Social Security ain’t gunna show up on time next month either, by the looks of it. And I know that irony is one of God’s little jokes on us Americans when union folks in Egypt are callin out their solidarity for the workers in the USA…I been sayin for a couple a years now that the war(s) have come home now, the corporations are retrenchin inside our borders and behind a wall of terror and intimidation around the entire country. This is it Citizen, and this is just the beginnin’ I’m afraid I ain’t gunna live long enough to see the restoration of the idea of democracy in this country.
Emptywheel has a fresh cross-post ready: Rummy Lawyers Up … To Defend Ordering Death Threats?
Walker’s office confirms, via Green Bay Gazette:
“The governor’s office has confirmed that it is indeed Walker’s voice on the other end of the line, in not so few words.
From Spokesperson Cullen Werwie:
“The Governor takes many calls everyday. Throughout this call the Governor maintained his appreciation for and commitment to civil discourse. He continued to say that the budget repair bill is about the budget. The phone call shows that the Governor says the same thing in private as he does in public and the lengths that others will go to disrupt the civil debate Wisconsin is having.”
Have you got a link to the article in the NYT?
we are on the exact same page Citizen – and I may not see it at full flower again myself, but I am so humbly grateful to see it has a pulse – and it makes perfect sense that we would find it in (((WI)))
Nice post from Mother Jones:
College Dropout (GPA 2.59) Scott Walker cheated even in College, when repeatedly running for class president:
“He was found guilty of illegal campaigning two weeks before his candidacy became official.
Later, one of his campaign workers was caught stuffing brochures
under doors at the school’s YMCA, violating the school’s ban on
door-to-door campaigning.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-tracy-flick-wisconsin-school-election
What a piece of… work.
Koch Whore
It’s how Walker will be remembered.
When I first heard this story, I thought that it was too good to be true. Even though your link claims that the gov’s office confirms the validity, I have to say that I’m not convinced the the confirmation isn’t part of the hoax. This really is too good to be true.
That said, if the Beast web-site is down because of the legal ramifications of taping Walker without his consent, please post a link to the legal defense fund as soon as it’s set up. I firmly believe that coke whores have rights, and would not be down with taking away a coke whore’s right to privacy. But Koch whores? They can fend for themselves. They’ve lined themselves up with rich friends. I would fight to be one of the Beast’s poor friends, and I’m sure there’s millions more like me.
There is a page on ActBlue collecting money for the Wisconsin State Senate Democratic Committee to fund their expenses. It is important to fund them, because Walker confirmed to “David Koch” that he was planning to go after them on ethics violations if they take money from unions.
Check the green Bay gazette and the Journal Sentinel. They are the ones confirming.
Sounds like Palin and the Sarkozy punk.
You’d think Walker would recognize his master’s voice.
You know, i think this guy may wind up in serious legal trouble. the Kocks will escape but some judge is gonna find out about THIS stuff
Evidently his definition of “civil discourse” and most other people’s definition are extremely different. Does he seriously believe that people are going to miss the fact he basically wants to trick Democrats into coming back as his definition of “civil discourse.”
As I said above I doubt this call would convince anyone on the fence about collective bargaining however in term of speaking of charecter of Walker, it is a condemnation. This would tank any chance he’d ever get of winning an independant vote. He’s a big ol’ partisan game player who is willing to cheat to win.
“Scott Walker was Breitbarted here”
I wouldn’t say that, unless the tape was edited to make it sound like he said something he didn’t actually say. Breitbart didn’t invent pretending to be something you aren’t to get a story.
Hubby gets paid Friday. Will definitely donate then. Thanks.
posted this on videosift, if you like it, vote it up
http://news.videosift.com/video/Wisconsin-Governor-Prank-Called-By-Billionaire-Tea-Party
Aren’t you reading a bit too much in to this? Pols get pranked all the time. Remember Palin thinking she was talking to Sarkozy? This is a genre.
The problem with Breitbart et. al. isn’t that they do undercover stings. The problem with Breitbart is that he dishonestly edits the stuff on the back end to make his videos look like something happened that didn’t. It’s not the tactic, it is the dishonesty.
HuffPost front page banner.
It’s out there, l’il Scottie.
Amazing. Just amazing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22union.html
Link to Sulzberger’s anti-union propoganda in yesterday’s NYT. Very slanted article; load of crap, imo.
also read this:
“A Secret Deal Between Gov. Walker And Koch Brothers Buried In State Budget?”
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/22/a-secret-deal-between-gov-walker-and-koch-brothers-buried-in-state-budget/
Tear up your script, Contessa…the story’s moving….
This is hilarious. Can’t listen to the audio now, so hoping a transcript goes up soon! I wonder if this will finish off the Walker saga?
Local Fargo newspaper was doing the same kind of union bashing in editorial today. Is ALEC writing the media script these days, too?
The Governor’s tone is what is amazing. He sounds like an anxious foreman reporting to the boss on a project running behind schedule.
Any word from Mika “Colmes” Brzezinski on this?
Agreed! Tricking someone into speaking candidly, and then presenting that without deceptive editing, is fair game in my mind. And maybe the states involved are one-party consent, or the federal law applies, which is one-party consent. Now pretending to be someone you’re not, I don’t know the law there. But anyone in public service should have their masked ripped off, in exchange for holding the public trust as an elected official.
I hear she’s a great piece of ass or something.
No, not in my opinion.
Charecter is made up of our everyday actions.
While I certainly understand the desire to “get even” and the concept of “everyone else is doing it” I still think misrepresentation is wrong.
MODS: Finish Jet Dry is being run on a video ad, interactive ads. Thanks.
Gov. Walker plan to trick the 14 Democrats into returning to Madison is PURE EVIL!
the deception GOV. Walker plan to use here, was very un-ethical.
How many Dems still want to reach across the aisle in DC?
Yet again Progressives were right! the GOP is PURE EVIL
The recent meeting with the Kock brothers was nothing more than a meeting of the Republicon Politburo.
And it isn’t DISHONEST to say you are someone you aren’t?
Listen I get the whole entire “the GOP started it” and that they used it effectively against ACORN and PP. I get that. I didn’t think it was right when the GOP was playing pimps and hos and I don’t think it’s right when someone pretends they’re David Koch.
Eventually I hope both sides get tired of playing games and earnestly come to the table for the sake of those of us not partisan.
In the meantime I’ll take solace in the fact that this discussion exposed Walker for the partisan willing to win at any cost pol he is.
Walker reminds me more than anything else, of a fast-food restraunt manager, with applogoies to hard-working managers of course.
Or he could easily pass for a Wal-Mart store manager, you know, the ones who lock elderly workers in the store at night and force them to work off-the-clock by pointing out that there are plenty of people waiting to take their jobs if they refuse?
Well if Walker thought that putting thugs amongst the peaceable protesters to foment violence was ethical, conning a con man over the telephone seems fair game.
So then you agree with the tactic of pretending you are trying to find contraception for underage girls when you are really looking to defund an organization that you politically disagree with?
Wait a second. This has nothing to do with getting even. I don’t really think the GOP started it …. I think “13 On Your Side” did.
It’s a fully accepted journalistic genre … and a fully accepted satirical one as well.
The hypocrisy is so galling. “We’re going to get our freedoms back.” By taking rights away from others? I’m sure that’s what the leaders of the Deep South said when they imposed Jim Crow.
Funny how that anti-union a$$#ole Walker invokes the name of Reagan while forgetting that Reagan was the president of the Screen Actors Guild–a union!
ONE CORRECTION: Walker said “oh, yeah” in reaction to “you got to live that Mika Brzenski” and said it over the remark “what a piece of ass” that Walker probably never heard.
Yesterday Santa Fe’s local noon newsreader had a question about ‘lookalike’ bills in the New Mexico legislature (new Republican governor Suzanne Martinez has changed the practice of identifying bills she sponsors with her initials, wonder why?) The newsreader made note of a similarity between bills introduced and the Wisconsin ones.
I think the big story on this spoof is the coordinated effort across the country along with the Koch connection. Our saving grace in New Mexico is that the State Legislature is in the hands of the Democrats, but only just. The Republicans almost managed a complete upset. Now that isn’t possible, thankfully, so if the Governor is to gain any traction she will have to do it by sleight of hand, which she has tried to do. So, as far as test cases go, I’m betting that New Mexico was one.
The gas utility company has already changed to equity firm ownership which gave us shutoffs in critical areas during the worst of the freeze – New Mexico is already highly sensitized to the ongoing skulduggery. And thanks to events in Wisconsin, pushback will definitely be strengthened here.
I hear what you are saying but?
these games go a lot higher than Gov. Walker
remember Obama killed the Public Option in July 2009
however in Sept. of 2009 OBAMA tells a crowd of Dem voters he loves the PO
Weiner scream he hated OBAMACARE, for days!
now Weiner is fighting for OBAMCARE
House Dems scream that they hate tax cuts for the rich 1 week
the next week these same House Dems vote for tax cuts for the rich
Kabuki is Kabuki
when your elected officials treat you like Morons, you have the right to treat them like Morons
Here are 2 others:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/opinion/23wed1.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html
This was done for partisan reasons. It was done to prove a point. It’s the exact tactic that the right employed against planned parenthood. I didn’t like it when they do it and I’m less then thrilled when our side scores as a result of it.
That’s me though. You’re entitled to feel differently. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Good point.
This may violate FDL terms of service, but here is a link to contribute to the Wisconsin 14:
http://www.actblue.com/page/solidarity
Remember, Walker has confirmed that he hopes to press ethis charges against them if they accept hotel rooms or support from unions (notwithstanding the riches he gets from the Kochs).
Walker sounds stupid, sure. But remember, this genius dropped out of college with a stellar 2.59 GPA. Another educationally- and ethically-challenged wingnut Governor. A male Sarah Palin. This guy even cheated repeatedly while running for class president in college.
EVERY post about him should begin: “College dropout Scott Walker…” – it informs readers exactly how much he values education and teaching.
Oh I know both sides are fiddlin’ while Rome is burning. This is a game to many of the pols on both sides of the aisle. People’s futures are at stake and this is what everyone is reduced to doing, playing pretend and hoping to expose what they disagree with.
In this case it exposed a horrible person but I still find myself questioning if the end justifies the means. I also see it’s “success” as a guarantee that it would be employed again by both sides.
Doesn’t matter. As long as they play by the rules and are honest about the frame from which they are presenting, it’s all good in my book. I’m for as much free speech as possible – I’d just prefer for it to be honest.
I thought you said you were nonpartisan – that means your ideals are your ideals and don’t have anything to do with what side you are on (or maybe that’s just what it means to me – I always preferred “independent” to “nonpartisan”)
Better than a Pulitzer, better than an Oscar. Hey Walker: all your base are belong to us.
I agree with what David said about the access to politicians issue, although I think most people assume that to be the case anyway.
The revelations that are likely to cause the most trouble for Walker are that (1) he basically debunked his claim that this bill is only about balancing the budget;
(2) his cavalier and chummy way of bragging about notifying 6,000 state workers that their jobs were going to be terminated;
(3) his repetitious self-promotion as a man who never backs down or negotiates about anything; and
(4) his invocation of Reagan’s decision to fire the striking air-traffic controllers as a source of quasi devine inspiration for himself and the members of his cabinet to remember in this battle to destroy public unions.
I think a substantial majority of the people who had not already made up their minds on this bill will be deeply offended to discover that Walker is a right-wing ideologue obsessed with imposing his will on the voters regardless of what they want. We’re not surprised by that, of course, and wingnuts will appreciate his we’re-on-the-same-team mentality. However, people who want their elected officials to be civil and willing to compromise to agree on solutions that benefit the majority of citizens are going to be deeply offended by his pride in riding point on enacting the overall right wing agenda.
We’ll see, but I suspect he gored himself with this call.
Is Actblue going to be safe from garnering ethical violation charges?
Not when it is the essence of the point you are making. Walker is a whore to people like Koch. That he acts like a toady on the phone for 20 minutes when he thinks Koch is calling is the whole point. It shows that Walker does not represent the people of Wisconsin, but an oligarchy.
Ian Murphy’s Response to MoJo this morning regarding his call…..
There are were plenty of unanswered questions, so we sought out Murphy online late Tuesday night, asking if he was still awake. “Sort of,” he tweeted us. “What do you want to know?” We emailed him a list of questions, and he responded early this morning:
Mother Jones: Okay, why should we believe you?
Ian Murphy: Why wouldn’t you? I’d send you the recordings, but they’re already online. I guess you’d have to consult an audio engineer or mp4 expert or whatever the forensic audio analysis autopsy seance kind of person. It sounds like him to me. Maybe they punked me! Maybe it was Koch who actually answered the phone. Maybe I am living a double life in my sleep as Scott Walker! It’s for real. I would have made the dialogue better and the audio worse. What, I am DARPA or some shit over here?
MJ: What number did you call to get through to Walker?
IM: I called the number on their website: http://walker.wi.gov/section.asp?linkid=1714&locid=177 I kept calling that same number, getting a busy signal, waiting through 20 rings. That Koch would suffer such indignities made it extra ridiculous.
MJ: Did you really think you’d get through?
IM: I couldn’t believe it was that easy. Or why they wouldn’t check around or something in between my calls. Or be competent. Or just not completely stupid. I blame it on the cheeseheads.
MJ: Did you ever freak out, almost lose your cool, etc.?
IM: Each time I called i presumed they be like, “Sir, we know you’re not Mr. Koch. Please fuck the fuck off.” Once Walker got on, I was more shocked than freaked. Now I’m freaked again.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-call-wisconsin
I am freaked as well Ian!
That is most certainly correct. Our New Mexico gas company privatization occurred during Bill Richardson’s administration. And Congressman Ben Ray Lujan, now on the side of the angels, was definitely kabukying away in his first term, which is why he almost got trounced by an upstart Republican last time around, even though he currently occupies respected Tom Udall’s northern Democratic seat.
So, Democrats are by and large at fault for the mess we are in. They didn’t respond to the mandate they were given in 2008 – instead, they danced the same dance as the Republicans, with Obama as chief toady.
Citizen nonpartisanliberal:
The real question is NOT the representation by the questioner but the voracity of the answers to the questions and the statements made. People who are concerned about “misrepresentation” must remember that the Breithbart stuff was wrong NOT because the questioners misrepresented themselves but that they misrepresented those that they questioned.
I am an independant, have been since 2008.
I tend to lean left in ideology. I’m pro choice, pro marry whover the heck you want, pro regulation and pro federalize health care. I was anti Iraq and Afghanistan and am for fair trade rather than free trade.
From the right side I’m not opposed to balancing the budget(I just disagree it should be done on the backs of the poor. I’m not anti war entirely(I served in the military for 11 years and am proud of my time in) and I disagree that amnesty is the answer to our immigration issue AGAIN(although I sympathize with immigrants who come here to try and make a better life for them and their families and feel our policy is skewed toward business interests.) I am unopposed to citizens owning firearms(although I do believe heavily in legisalation to ensure that guns don’t end up in the hands of mentally unstable or children)
I’m probably considered a moderate from liberal standards but I live in a red part of the country where I definitely am considered liberal.
I’m opposed to games though. I prefer straightforward confrontation and facts when debating to gameplaying and trickery.
I’m preparing myself for disappointment as to the overall effect this will have on the situation in Wisconsin. Yes, this a bombshell to those of us who have the eyes and ears to see and hear, but I worry about the effect upon those to whom the corporate state and its influence remains invisible. In other words, if they don’t already get that Republicans (and most Democrats) are owned by corporate interests, I’m not sure this is enough to push them over the edge, or if they’ll ever get it. But here’s to hoping.
Speaking of lighting fires, I’d like to thank all of you Pups for keeping mine lit
waynec
Again……so you aren’t opposed to people pretending they are someone looking for contraception for underage girls when they really have a partisan agenda?
I guess everyone has different boundaries and different lines but I thought it was sleazy when PP was attacked by partisan hacks. It FEELS like it would be hypocrisy to support this on the face of that.
Again that’s me though. Others are definitely entitled to feel differently.
The Repub WI Assembly Leader is admitting to Andrea Mitchell right now that hte call was real, just trying to spin it off the subject.
And there’s a rumor on Twitter that Walker will have a presser at 2:30 to discuss the call. Bwahahah!
Citizen cwaltz:
Sure my morals oppose misrepresentations such as those you describe, however, those actions are perfectly legal and protected by the 1st Amendment. What ISN’T legal or protected is publically misrepresenting the person questioned and publishing the distortions on public airways. For God’s sake Citizen stop tuggin’ on yer forelock and gnashin your teeth over this thing…don’t question the messenger question the message.
Why is the discussion here focused on the tactic that was employed to engage Walker in conversation?
That issue pales into insignificance, I think, given the enormous issues that are at stake, not the least of which, is the future viability of our economic system and government and our own livelihoods?
Listen to the extremely casual and dismissive manner in which Walker mentioned terminating 6,000 state workers to pressure the Senate Democrats into returning so that the Senate would have a quorum allowing the Republicans to pass his bill. Keeping in mind that he knows his bill is not about the budget such that firing 6,000 people isn’t necessary, what does his willingness to basically destroy the economic security of 6,000 people and their families and possibly some of their lives just to destroy unions and collective bargaining for the greater enrichment of the already filthy rich and the attendant glory and advancement of his political fortunes?
That’s what we need to be talking about! Don’t lose sight of the forest through the trees.
BTW: the caller misrepresented his identity but Walker did most of the talking and nothing Walker said was misrepresented. So, I’m calling bullshit on the discussion about the tactic employed.
To mrs. greenspan’s credit, she got it out there that there is something a bit unseemly about what was said, and the implication of $ behind the manipulation, and not about negotiating in good faith.
She played walker talking about this with kascich, who is the next jackal that should be feeling the heat.
All this within the first 15 minutes which places it above the fold.
Citizen cwaltz:
Take a look at the post just downstream of yours (#77)…you can stop distracting yourself (Edited by Mod: please be careful not to throw in gratuitous offensive terms just for shock value. Some of those words might offend friends.)and listen to the facts as they are presented by the horse’s mouth.
cwaltz I think a lot of people agree with you or use to agree with your point of view
Jane, Glenn and others showed us the true side of modern politics. There are no rules in this new political battle field. Anything Goes
in this new political battlefield the bad guys do win
Progressives and Liberals have always tried to play by the rules, and numerous times we have been stab in the back.
Our members worked their TAILS OFF to get the DEMS elected, and what did they get in return.
1. more war
2. Obama/Bush Tax Cuts
3. the OBAMA/Bob Dole Health Care for Profit Bill
this is not a Hollywood movie! the good guys don’t always win in this new political arena. that just a fact
Citizen Masoninblue:
AfuckinMEN, Citizen…AfuckinMEN!!!
I don’t think that Walker was breitbarted. It doesn’t appear that anything was taken out of context and my understanding is that Wisconsin has a 1-party consent law for recorded phone conversations.
And even if it turns out that the conversation was manipulated in some way, I want to enjoy the thought of this horrible man showing everyone exactly who he is for just a little bit.
thank you!
could have not said it better
“If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.”
Translated: Don’t worry, boss, if I appear to be breaking ranks. It’s only a trick we’ve cooked up to further serve you, boss, and get this thing rammed through. I’m loyal to you, boss. Sieg heil.
The big story here is that Walker won’t willingly talk to the press or to Democrats, but he will leap like Pavlov’s dogs at the sound of a dinner bell when he thinks he’s being summoned by the guy behind him and his party.
Yup, yup, yup. He boasts about not negotiating in good faith.
Shorter version : The end justifies the means.
You’re entitled to your opinion but there are people within the left who prefer to win arguments on merit rather than trickery. And there should be absolutely nothing wrong with that.
In 2008 one of the reasons I left was because I saw the Democratic party manipulate the rules and stifle democracy. I saw them twist arms to guarantee there would be no floor fight. I was apalled and at that moment I decided the means mattered to me, ALOT.
As I stated above charecter is decided what we do on a day to day basis. It’s decided by how we attack the problems we face. I’m saddened that it’s come to using trickery to expose people and I’ll not apologize for that sadness. No, furthermore I’m not convinced given time that trickery won’t backfire as people become aware that they can be tricked and do everything they can to limit their exposure to people on the off chance that misrepresentation is occuring and the person on the other line is playing “gotcha.”
The thing about this taped conversation and the HB Gary email being made public, is that it will hopefully put everyone in government and business on alert that electronic data lives FOREVER. The shyte that one speaks and writes will eventually come out, so therefore do no evil.
or it means the rich will just have to rob more from the poor in order to have their conversations behind closed doors on their yachts.
I’d like to add my opinion re: the incorrect use if the term “breitbarted.”. If there is a dictionary entry, it should be along these lines:
To Breitbart
1. To manipulate a recording to create a fiction that the person targeted in the recording is advocating or supporting something to which they are, in fact, opposed.
2. To record the responses of an uninformed underling and represent it as the opinion or goal of the entire organization.
Citizen cwaltz:
Now that we know where you are really comin’ from let me give you a little advice about haulin’ around the term “character” like a bloody shirt off someone who has fought a battle for you. “Character” in the context of this discussion is defined by Ian Murphy when he made the telephone call and allowed the Governor to speak to the truth of his motivations and politics. “Character” is defined by those Acorn folks who indulged the phony agent provocateur and did their duty of citizenship by callin the cops. “Character” is defined by those workers, retired people,teachers, cops and firemen who give or have given themselves to others everyday and deserve to hear the truth about the actions a corrupt and brain challenged governor has exposed all by himself. I could go on about the “character” of many brave young kids I’ve seen who’ve given the last full measure so we can hear the truth from a corporate fascist from his own mouth…now get the *edited by mod*
“win arguments on merit rather than trickery.”
It’s an admirable stance and I believe you’re taking it for admirable reasons.
But consider this. Food critics routinely conceal their identity when reviewing a restaurant – to do otherwise would mean they would never learn how the restaurant treats average patrons. Heads of companies will sometimes pose as average employees to learn about the operation of their companies by direct experience. Law enforcement employs undercover cops.
There is a world of difference between using a false identity to create a false impression and using a false identity to get at the truth that would otherwise be concealed.
Not just a difference in degree, but a real difference in kind.
Yeah, I noticed that too.
That bit of the transcript should be more like:
“fake-Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski;
Walker: Oh yeah.
fake-Koch: she’s a real piece of ass.
”
But the rest of the conversation… oh my… you just can’t make this stuff up!
Citizen RFShunt:
The discussion about the tactics of Ian Murphy is nothin but a troll-inspired distraction…I think we’ve wrung all the snot outta that runny nose.
DDay,
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has laid off a lot of editors and reporters in the last year.
It’s remarkable that they completely FORGOT to link this with their own election reporting(Sept. 2010).
”
What’s good for the goose……”
“Union plan not lost on Walker aide
Talkative labor official divulges strategy, unaware he’s being taped”
Access…puh-lease. What politician today, Democrat or Republican, would not take a call from a major campaign contributor. Let’s stop pretending to be so naive. But this does reveal how disingenuous the left is, attack the man when you can’t reasonably discuss the issue.
In Ohio, thousands of citizens were locked out of the Statehouse until about 4 PM. Only 750 were allowed in to hear the debate on SB5 although the occupancy of the building is officially 5000.
Wisconsinites in our adopted state of Ohio, my husband and I were among those citizens demanding to be allowed into the public building. Not belonging to any established union- but certainly a part of the emerging Union of Unemployed (UUEC) our signs read:
“The rich don’t need collective bargaining but 98% of Americans do!”
Go to plunderbund.com for the Ohio Story
I don’t have a problem with anyone pretending to want contraceptives for underage prostitutes…if they seriously believe the organizations they are lying to knowingly provides contraceptives to support underage prostitution. That is the sort of thing I would definitely expect out of a police sting operation, and even from a serious journalist.
Now, I DO have a problem with someone doing this and then editing the recording in an attempt to alter conversations to FALSELY claim that the organization supports those kinds of behaviors…but I would have a problem with that even if the original interview was conducted honestly and without misrepresenting who the investigator was.
This recording so far seems legit and without editing to promote a false account of itself, so I see nothing to tie it specifically with the ACORN/Planned Parenthood sort of things where the intent was purely to misrepresent the encounter.
Say what? Gov. Walker and Gov. Kasich aren’t talking to the citizens or taking their calls. But the owners of the dirtiest industries in the country are probably on speed dial. The lines/layers of deniabliity between puppeteer and puppet are frayed.
You feel free to go then because I ain’t going anywhere.
Msrepresenting yourself as someone you aren’t is wrong and doing it score political points is repulsive.
Now YOU can feel free to go way.
Citizen andronious:
There is an echo in here.
Citizen cwaltz:
You ken hold yer breath, plug yer ears and keep repeating over and over “there is a Santa Claus” but the folks around here have heard it all before. Why don’tcha do yourself a favor and give yourself a thrill: wiggle your ears and tickle your prostate.
And now I AM outta here…gotta go to a meeting and reason with some more crypto-Nazis.
I think the crank call was exquisite, and am completely comfortable with that tactic, even when done by Breitbart and that skinny whiteboy pimp. Eventually the (unedited) truth will come out, and the “punkee” and the “punked” can both be judged in public opinion.
I want to see the sausage contents of our government and big business. I’m completely cool with getting a glimpse (and sniff) of the dark side from leaked documents, stolen emails, deceptively initiated phone conversations, etc.
Ha!
I’m still pretty new to posting here. Can’t know the trolls without a scorecard. Thanks for the heads up.
The conversation was not manipulated but the conversation was definitely created to create a certain narrative.
Some people may believe the ends justify the means and they are certainly entitled. However those of us that find it as repulsive are EQUALLY entitled.
Different people are going to have different lines.
Writing rules to stop the Senate Dems’ direct deposit of payroll might be wire fraud.
If any Senate Democrat has automatic billpay or post-pay-deposit transfers that bounce b/c their pay turned into a hardcopy check that wasn’t pre-noted to them, and then the check was locked away in their desks?
That’s nasty and goes against bank/payroll system regulations as I once understood them.
I’d do more homework for myself. There are people here who throw the word troll around at anyone they disagree with. Apparently they’re confused with how politics is supposed to work.
That would be interesting to research. Does anyone even know if these guys are paid weekly, biweekly, etc, etc.?
Oh and I don’t have a prostate you maroon. I’m female.
Inside baseball: The real value in this wonderful piece of theater is for those on the progressive side, those leaning toward union and employee rights: they will understand *exactly* where the Governor is coming from, what his goals are, and how slimy his tactics are (and who he reports to). Sure there are people that will be converted by this incredible conversation, but the value is pissing off the troops and giving them strength of conviction when faced with sometimes overwhelming pressure to capitulate.
I totally understand. We’ve been having horrible problems with Argentine Ants at our house, little black critters that get into *everything*.
Don’t worry, I decide for myself.
Actually, you kinda’ do, it’s called a Skene’s gland.
Wiki:
But maroon is one of my favorite colors, and it has the added benefit of referring to runaway slaves in the Caribbean and Central/South/North America that lived free as indigenous peoples.
Cool, I’m a fan of trivia.
I was a corpsman in the Navy, the female prostate thing must be before my time.
Oh and long live the indigoneous people who love maroon!
;)
When are some of you folks on the left going to wake up to the fact that this isn’t politics, it’s war fare. You come to the table thinking that your reasoned argument is all you need. While the right is out there using every underhanded trick in the book.
You better wake the fuck up and start fighting back.
If so, this states that wire fraud is a Federal offense.
The crime isn’t wire fraud because there was no scheme to defraud and nothing was sent via a wire transmission.
Walker’s scheme was to withhold paychecks so that the senators would have to return to Wisconsin to pick them up. He had devised a scheme to create a quorum so that his Republican lackeys could pass his odious bill (i.e., a threat to withhold their checks to get them to do something they otherwise intended not to do). That’s a form of extortion but it didn’t and it won’t happen now that his statement has been revealed and, in any event, the Holder Justice Department would never prosecute it because it looks forward and not backward when rich assholes are involved.
I’ve followed FDL for a long time and I’ve never felt the need to comment. Seriously, you guys do a great service. But, this is not, not, not what Brietbart and O’Keefe do! They make up a story, go looking for unsuspecting victims, catch them in a compromising situation and then edit video and audio to make the subject appear to say something they didn’t and then misrepresent that as indicative of an organization at large.
This “prank” only setup the situation and recorded the results, and then appears to have posted the entire conversation whole and unedited.
Oh I think we (well, most of us) realize that this is war, not politics.
And I think there are several factors that prevent us from acting as such…
-We are by nature a compassion people. That’s what defines, to a large extent, a “progressive” or “liberal”; someone who cares about his fellow people, without regard to class, color, or religion. We are not a people that run roughshod over everyone we think is wrong according to whatever belief system we run as a system.
-We are not particularly organized to conduct warfare. We need to figure out how to be so.
-We have limited resources ($) behind our efforts, since most of the large corporations are on the Other Side, due to short-term profit concern (lobby for favors + greed-oriented action = higher profits).
So once again, we are faced with a lot of people screaming “we need to do something!” but very little in the way of action plans.
We can fix that. Maybe Madison is the Next Step toward progressive action…
just how diabolical is Koch? he managed to plant the seeds of Walker’s anti-worker/human agenda without Walker being able to recognize his voice! and he can get straight through to Walker when he calls! THIS IS AN APPALLING, UNPRECEDENTED SALE OF ACCESS!
or not http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/obamas-top-funder-also-lead-nation-white-house-visits
what’s more dirty and underhanded?
1) attempting to hold a vote on a bill in a legislature that is supported by wisconsin voters.
2) fleeing the state so that your torchbearing public servants in the teachers’ union (the third largest donor in Wisconsin’s last election) can obstruct the democratic process, fertilize the Capitol with Nazi comparisons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDnKQul_c8&feature=player_embedded–heritage must’ve baited them, right?), and threaten violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0DuqAi6gFQ&feature=player_embedded) in an effort to bargain collectively against taxpayers, a notion that was anathema to FDR himself?