People I talked to in Wisconsin say that Scott Walker isn’t an ideologue as much as he is a politician. He was seen as a moderate in the Legislature, working with left-leaning types on some issues. He saw a moment to “change Wisconsin” by breaking the public employee unions that help fund the Democratic side, and armed with the legislative numbers, he took it. He wasn’t prepared for a backlash, and most important, he should have taken the concession he was able to extract from the unions on pension and health care contributions and ended it there. He would have been able to declare victory, and could always have gone back to collective bargaining at another point, if the local unions didn’t adhere to the same compromise. But running past the compromise has put Walker into a box. It was a major mistake.
What could be the case is that Walker is something of an ideologue when it comes to unions. He used layoffs as a strategy as Milwaukee county executive to extract concessions from unions years earlier. His entire history is filled with union fights. Maybe he thought the ground was fertile to end public union participation permanently. The risk was great but so was, and still could be, the reward.
This could still end up working out for him. Recall elections aren’t entirely easy, and even ideologues can survive them. If the economy improves by 2014, he could win re-election, and even if he doesn’t, he’ll have some sinecure waiting for him at Heritage or AEI, with the moniker of “the man who tried to stop the unions” affixed to him (and on the right that’s a badge of honor). A lot depends on that economic outlook and how the progressive groups working in Wisconsin can leverage their opportunity.
Still, for now it’s clear that Walker’s gambit has backfired in the court of public opinion. If the election between Walker and Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett were held today, Barrett would win 52-45, mainly because Walker is losing Republican union voters.
The difference between how folks would vote now and how they voted in November can almost all be attributed to shifts within union households. Voters who are not part of union households have barely shifted at all- they report having voted for Walker by 7 points last fall and they still say they would vote for Walker by a 4 point margin. But in households where there is a union member voters now say they’d go for Barrett by a 31 point margin, up quite a bit from the 14 point advantage they report having given him in November.
It’s actually Republicans, more so than Democrats or independents, whose shifting away from Walker would allow Barrett to win a rematch if there was one today. Only 3% of the Republicans we surveyed said they voted for Barrett last fall but now 10% say they would if they could do it over again. That’s an instance of Republican union voters who might have voted for the GOP based on social issues or something else last fall trending back toward Democrats because they’re putting pocketbook concerns back at the forefront and see their party as at odds with them on those because of what’s happened in the last month.
Union voters are looking to their pocketbooks again. If you delved deeper in this poll, I’d bet that most of that swing comes from public safety officials, the ones Walker “exempted” from bargaining restrictions. That gambit has totally failed, and driven police and firefighters into the corner of the protesters.
The proxy fight races coming up in Wisconsin – which I have previously discussed – will go a long way to determining whether the movement can continue to make Walker fertile for a recall effort. That’s certainly on the minds of the protesters, but it couldn’t happen until January 2012.
(And by the way, all the chants are for Feingold, not Barrett.)





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A big part of Scott Walker’s victory in November- and Ron Johnson’s as well- was Democratic voters sitting at home. Our final pre election poll in Wisconsin found that likely voters had supported Barack Obama by only 3 points in 2008, in contrast to his actual 14 point victory in the state.
____
This is the beginning of the 3rd paragraph of the poll. Dems would win if they remembered to turn out.
825,000 more registered voters voted in WI in 2008 than did in 2010.
Well, that’s true of Obama too. Everyone likes the potential.
Heck, that’s probably true of your spouse too.
When they’re bent over cleaning grout, things look different.
Democrats would be more likely to turn out if the party remembered to support their objectives. The party owes the people representation – the people don’t owe the party a vote.
The failure in 2010 was a failure of the Democratic party to nurture their voters. It’s bullshit to blame the results on a demoralized electorate after they served as the national party’s whipping child (Obama in particular) for two solid years.
David, these news items are OT but I think others should know about them besides the excellent reporting you’re doing:
Rudolph: Can You Pass The Saudi Arabia Quiz?
Pa. suspends air pollution controls at drilling sites
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11056/1127950-113.stm#ixzz1FIgJGc23
I imagine it’s also true of Reagan. I’ve often wished i had that one to do over. What a moron.
Obama would still win in a general.
As for the general thrust of this poll, I see it as tough shit. The election was 3 months ago. If there was an election tomorrow, this would matter.
However, it does show a shift in support from Walker’s idealistic campaign rhetoric to reality that unions are important.
On edit – that was to my best buddy alan @ 2
is walker subject to a recall?
After 1 year in office, yes. So middle of next Jan is the earliest he could be recalled.
I am impressed by Christie in NJ and his ability to make the unions the bad guys. Waanker could still get there and if there were an election coming up he would make the switch, you know deficit reduction is what it is all about and the unions are irresponsible. So whatever the polls now say, dont believe them. Ohio and Indiana thug govs are also still doing well. So nothing there —- yet.
After a year in office
This is old, but still funny.
dito and WI was especially pissed
That was certainly my impression.
Gotta love it.
That’s the way I see the general GOP candidate v. Obama polls from last week. As soon as the message gets specific, votes go away.
People I talked to in Wisconsin say that Scott Walker isn’t an
ideologueidiot as much as he is apoliticianmoran.Suggested edit.
Seriously, D-Day. Your reporting throughout this WI event has been incredible, every filing a bulls-eye. I truly hope the GOP hacks (and fellow-traveling pundits) are choking on their Beluga caviar while reading your posts.
Too much reality for ya, shitheads?
This is rarely the way it works. I think the real issues are that it is easier to fight against an enemy than faceless forces, and courage is contagious.
“As labor battles erupt in state capitals around the nation, a majority of Americans say they oppose efforts to weaken the collective bargaining rights of public employee unions and are also against cutting the pay or benefits of public workers to reduce state budget deficits, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.”
LINK.
Why has there not been a push to get the Unemployed and underemployed to join the protest for jobs and a liveable wages.Tax the financial elietes for for the good of all US Citizens.
Love the misinformation that popped up earlier in the thread.
Let’s get the proper word out.
Kasich has terrible approval ratings in Ohio.
Good post. The people sure taughts Dems a lesson. 825,000 didn’t vote for anything or anyone. 825,000 didn’t vote for sheriff, dogcatcher, or city commissioner. They showed Obama! I am sure he learned a hard lesson.
I’m glad people have woken up, but why did so many Republican union voters vote against their own interests in the first place?
If it were because they underatood that voting for a Democrat these days is not much better than voting for a Republican, I could understand why so many voted for Walker. But that’s probably not why they did it.
Meanwhile, it’s perfectly reasonable to blame the demoralization of the base of the Democratic Party on total failures like Obama, who ever betrayed their supporters or just failed them big time.
Shows to go you what happens when people stay home during elections.
James Bradley’s book “The Imperial Cruise” dwelt in some length on the notion of the Aryan/Anglo Saxon point of view, and Walker fits that mold almost perfectly. It’s still out there. Back then and even earlier in the Westward push in North America, whites in general were the “Good Guys”. Now, it’s the top 0.1% of the WASP population that are the “Good Guys” and the rest of us can go scratch. We need to learn that fighting them on their ground is not a win situation. We need to hobble the process entirely, make it impossible for the dirty work to be done. The American Indians took on the Whites and as warriors, they excelled.
They also lost.
This event might be the awakening that we need. But it depends…in my old marketing days I would say we need a specific winning product and a specific winning message.
I once had a perfect storm: the competition’s remote access router actually caught fire in the rack, triggering the server room’s fire system and bringing the whole place down, hard. Took hours to bring back up and the router was still down. We could have taken most of their marketshare and pounded them into the ground for years on this. But we had a shitty product, shy on feature set, our execs had crippled our development by cutting our budget, and we were pretty much dark on marketing for the same reason. Thus, our competitor fixed their problem and sailed on, still #1 in the market. We screwed up a perfect opportunity.
My point is, we must have a REAL set of candidates for the next series of elections, with a cohesive message that addresses real-world needs of the working people of America. We can’t be serving the monied elites, we can’t be shy about delivering our winning message, and we have to hold to the message that the leadership of both parties have screwed the working people to the floor, and our candidates are committed to changing the direction of our city/state/country toward fairness and justice. And here’s exactly how they’ll do it.
For the last couple of months the Who’s song “won’t get fooled again” keeps playing in my head. We have to make sure that’s not the case….again. I’m hoping that Wisconsin’s message can be leveraged into a progressive, people’s win.
Marketing 101: The right product, the right message, the right campaign.
If the base of the Democratic Party stays home during elections, the base isn’t to blame. The leaders of the Democratic Party are to blame for demoralizing and totally turning off the base, which is exactly what’s been happening since Obama took office.
Walker wouldn’t even win an election for dog catcher today, which makes one wonder why the Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate and Assembly continue to hitch their political (and plummeting moral) wagon to this loser governor who daily keeps showing how completely heartless he really is (along with those corporatists financially backing his raping of Wisconsin for private gain).
This country won’t survive if a lyin’ Obama is the best we can do. We have to get a new generation of candidates who realize “Imperial Rome” is in trouble.
nah, he’ll learn his lesson in ’12
Never have I seen a picture so crying out for the moustache that goes with the actions.
First they came for the trade unionists... and they didn’t stop there.
It’s the 3/4 that bother me. The Dems and Obama (he is but a symptom) should study Strickland’s brief history and learn from it.
They’re working while you’re gawking. Better check the polish on your shining armor.
Well, I realize that voting in the last election became a choice of the lesser of two evils, but since they stayed home, the worst one won.
Did Walker actually win? What kind of voting machinery does Wisconsin use?
I still don’t get the reference?
Don’t be like that jbeeareazeriob guy who types OBAMA IS A TROGAN HORSE all day.
No matter your politics, it get’s old.
Jeff Kaye is upstairs…
While Texas Dismisses Torture Charges Against James Mitchell, Other Investigations Under Political Pressures
Annnnd another one, now Pew poll, finds public supports working families over Walker. http://bit.ly/fgaapW
What an oxymoron. At least the dimwitted suckers are waking up.
I’m not sure who this “we” is, but this is right on target. The problem is recruitment and name recognition. To not pass up an opportunity, “we” need 435 candidates for Congress (a few can be incumbents), 30-something candidates for US Senate, however many candidates for governor, councils of state (especially attorney generals and secretaries of state, but also secretaries of labor, education, and even agriculture), candidates for county commissions/councils, candidates for municipal offices (mayors, aldermen,selectmen), candidates for school board, and soil and water commissions. And the next election for a lot of local races is this November. For everything else, if you don’t have a candidate are beginning to work a campaign now, you will not have the momentum by November 2012.
This really is not an abstract problem. Folks need to start building electoral coalitions now. And not write off any jurisdiction in the country.
Them staying home was the fault of failures like Obama. Blame the failed Democratic Party leadership for the Republican Party’s quick return from the political wilderness, and we might be able to save the Democratic Party from itself (probably not).
You might be ok with having to choose between bad and worse, but the fact is that election after election the people lose either way when the choices are always between bad and worse. That’s the problem with buying into “the lesser of two evils” thinking.
Exactly. My choice for 2012 is deciding besides not voting for Obama (“He’s less shitty” no longer cuts it) is to decide to also Vote against him, as much as it sickens me to vote for whatever assclown toady the Republicants put up. Wisconsin has shown me that the assclowns need to wreck even more if people are going to wake up. The slow boil of Obama and the Dems is more dangerous than the full flame from the Rethugs. At least with them, and their overreaching, more frogs are jumping out of the pot.
Athenae is upstairs!
Late Night: ‘And That’s How I Know That It’s Time to Be Brave’
I’m amazed that Barrett is only winning by 31 points in this poll. Public employee union members probably represent the large majority of those union households. ANY public employee who would vote for Walker–or any other Republican–is a fool. Barrett should get 80%-90% of union households.
One difference between Christie and Walker is that Christie has virtually no ability to get anything through the legislature, while Walker has Repub majorities in both houses. In NJ, the Dems have a 47-33 advantage in the Assembly and a 24-16 majority in the state Senate.
Christie is free to flap his ample jaws all he wants, but the state is still basically controlled by the Democrats–and will be in 2012.
Future is correct.These two-party tribalists have to be roughed up before they quit embracing these corporate-owned toadies and the anti-American agenda of Wall St.
The difference is the Beltway Botox Brigade is hot for Christie. I have noticed that he is absolutely fawned over. They are electrified by him, and he speaks their language, loud, confrontational and divisive. He delivers great sound bytes without the necessity of critical thinking. Tailor-made for the M$M.
Wow, someone is paying big bucks today to run misinformation in the threads here…
Glad we are such a draw…It validates FDL and work like David’s.
If you want the Democrats to continue behaving like Republicans, vote for either the Democrat or the Republican on the ballot.
Why not vote for a third party candidate instead, preferably one whose positions are more in line with what you want to see your representatives doing?
Voting for the Democrats’ partner in the two-party kabuki won’t solve anything!
Could any of the commenters summarize for me the total amount of support for the people of Wisconsin to date, by Obama. Do we ever know when we can count on this guy?
If Walker would lose an election now… then it’s time for a recall!
Oh, good grief! They have to wait an entire year? Ai yai yaiiii…
It could be Jon Huntsman, a Republican, who, from what I’ve read, sounds more moderate than Obama. Maybe even a bit more progressive.
Um, because I want my vote to actually count for something. You mean 3rd Party like Nadar? Perot? Third party, except at the local level, is a non-starter in our system; except, occasionally, as a spoiler. As I said, WI has shown that the right wing thugs are overreaching, as always. Let them turn the country to full boil and see how many wake up. Obama and the Dems provide a soothing flavoring to the CONservative poison but make no mistake, however, they are advancing the same agenda. Time to really shake things up.