Last weekend I mentioned Wisconsin State Senator Glenn Grothman (R), who went on TV and said the protest movement in Wisconsin was nothing more than a bunch of kids “up for a demonstration.” One thing I didn’t mention there – I saw him later that day. I wouldn’t have recognized him without seeing him earlier on MSNBC, but he was in one of the hallways on the ground floor, peeking out at the protesters in the Rotunda. I was headed out the door at the time, and I thought about turning around and questioning him on the AFSCME corrections officers who just paraded through the Capitol, and which one of them was the kid up for a demonstration. But by the time I made the decision he was gone.
This is significant because the right is trying to gin up yet another example of “union thuggery” by claiming that Grothman was chased by protesters after last night’s budget address from Gov. Scott Walker. And predictably, this tells far too little of the story. In fact, Grothman, unlike any of his Republican colleagues in the legislature, went down into the common areas of the Capitol to exit. Every other legislative Republican managed to find a different way out – probably through that side door where the lobbyists came in before the speech (search for the word “lobbyists” on that link, it’s far down the page). Just like when I saw him on Saturday, he was down there to see if he could stir up trouble and become a martyr.
And all that happened is that Grothman had to endure protesters yelling “Shame, shame” and then couldn’t find an exit (his pal Gov. Walker had them all blocked) until a Democratic Representative came to his rescue:
Madison.com however doesn’t bother to show how it was resolved. That is that Democratic Representative Brett Hulsey along with marshals were able to defuse the situation and have the protesters move back and form a corridor for Sen Grothman to leave.
Grothman whined about this afterwards, and the usual suspects played it up as “proof” of thuggishness. These are the same people who lie about being punched and show video with a palm tree in it to “prove” Wisconsin protesters are violent.
But if we want to talk about thugs, well then, fine, let’s do it.
At least 3 of the handful of protesters allowed to watch Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s budget address from the State Capitol’s Assembly Gallery Tuesday evening were ejected from the Gallery, escorted out by State Patrols.
“I was one of the 20 people invited in from the general public,” said David Wasserman, a Madison Metropolitan School District teacher at Sennett Middle School.
He didn’t get to stay for long.
“We looked at the list of things we weren’t supposed to do – we knew we weren’t supposed to clap, we knew we weren’t supposed to have our cell phones on,” Wasserman said of the rules posted in the Assembly Chamber, noting that all the Republicans in the Assembly Chamber were clapping and cheering for Walker’s address.
“Then, the woman next to me, who I don’t even know, stood up when everyone was clapping, and she booed,” he said. She realized she had broken the rules, Wasserman said, and voluntarily left, escorted by an officer.
Shortly thereafter, a sheriff came back to Wasserman’s seat and said, “You two [David and his friend Thi] are going to have to be escorted out.”
Wasserman explained: “And we said, ‘We didn’t do anything! What did we do?!’ This other woman was screaming. We weren’t clapping. We weren’t whistling and cheering. We weren’t doing anything we weren’t supposed to be doing.”
According to Wasserman, two State Patrol officers escorted them out around 4:40 p.m., before the end of Walker’s address, passing them from sheriff to sheriff on the way out. They kept asking, “Why do you keep escorting us out? What did we do? Why?” Wasserman noted the initial two sheriffs who escorted Wasserman and Thi from the Gallery never responded as to why they were ejected from the address.
I have reports that at least two other protesters were dragged out of the Capitol by police. And as for those who couldn’t get in yesterday, they slept outside on the lawn.
Meanwhile, nobody was allowed to enter the Capitol from 4:15 and 5:30 pm yesterday, during Scott Walker’s budget address, in violation of a court order. That court order remains in place today.
So if you want to talk about thuggish behavior, you’re going to have to do better than a guy looking for trouble getting yelled at and then helped on his way out. You may want to talk to the people dragged out forcibly by police.
UPDATE: More Grothman nonsense.




116 Comments

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My guess is that Grothman, Fitzgerald and Walker are hoping to provoke a violent response from the protesters. However, the provocations are so outrageous (not to mention illegal) that they’re backfiring.
Oh my, heading for the front exits to stir up trouble. Is this similar to Pelosi carrying her giant gavel straight through the Tea Party crowd rather than using the underground tunnel as every other legislator did that day?
Oh, yes. Exactly like that. Except then Speaker of The House Pelosi wasn’t wearing a fucking badge and rousting people for no reason. So lacking any similarty what so ever, you’re right it was exactly like that.
So bring it up with the state patrol, and they weren’t “rousted” out they were escorted. Tensions and emotions are running high on all sides, two people being removed from the crowded gallery isn’t exactly the same as riot police clearing everyone from the building with batons and tear gas.
The Pelosi reference was a comparison to Grothman supposedly looking to get a reaction, no different than Pelosi intentionally striding straight through the Tea Party crowd on the day that the healthcare bill was going to pass.
Ah now oldnslow
You know
The little troll
Must earn its dough
Duh D’oh
Harassing an elected representative is bad optics. You folks are going to lose on this. The MSM probably won’t show the video,but Fox News will.
Public sector unions are a mechanism to funnel taxpayer money into political parties via mandatory union dues. I would agree with FDR that public sector unions should not be allowed. Eliminate them. Wisonsin is just the beginning.
Golly gee, a regular troll-fest.
This isn’t going to end well. Peaceful protests do not work. Ever. They are ignored, or something is stirred up in order to create controversy.
David Koch is very busy funding bloggers these days, isn’t he? Good thing David Koch has ripped off US taxpayers to enable him to pay off so many bloggers to support the upper 2% elite v. the 98% workers. Just saying…
Tell that to the civil rights marchers. Or Gene Sharp.
Am I reading FDL? The comments on here more resemble a Yahoo “news” (AP) story.
Wisconsin state senator Grothman needs a reality check! – This is Wisconsin – and America – in the 21st century! – By referring to peaceful demonstrators as “thugs” and “slobs,” he chooses to use the verbal tactics of the 19th century in an attempt to discredit and denigrate any dissent or opposition to an authoritarian government. Come on Wisconsinites! These are fight’n words! It is appalling and unacceptable, that an elected official of our state would refer to our citizens as “thugs and slobs!” If there was a “stink or an odor” in the capitol, as he states, perhaps he might take a look at himself and the governor to realize that freedom of speech and peaceful dissent are still a part of our constitution – and that he (and the governor), might be the actual “stink” that is causing an outrage from our citizens. We are simply refusing to just sit back and take it!
Did DDay put out a “Free Shit Sandwiches for Trolls” sign?
Here’s Grothman’s real opinion of WI constituents
Prime Minister Harper, so nice you could join us this afternoon.
I just listened to that asshole on the Joy Cardin WPR radio show spend five minutes calling everyone of the protesters a “SLOB” among other demeaning epithets and allusions.
David Dayen’s reporting has become too well known, and the Koch’s have sent their little trolls over here to disturb the thread. Pay no attention to them.
Fixed it for ya.
Hey Harvey, I mean Wallbanger, where do you go to school?
Is this clown newly elected or is he on the list of 8 who can be recalled?
When I originally saw this, my first thought was “Now there is a guy who was abused by the cool kids in high school”.
Do these idiots realize that are calling teachers, among other, “slobs”? The unions won’t forget this and will use it against them when the time comes.
Too bad the likes of Walker and Grothman aren’t man enough to be real leaders. Instead they have to go by a plan handed to them by the largest donors.
Oh well, I guess we can call them both Slobs and Thugs.
These fucks don’t think any further ahead than sunset. They’ll be trying to back pedal in the face of video and audio. Not the brightest stars in the universe.
His wiki says serving since ’05 so maybe reelected in ’08 so eligible for recall?
Are you getting $25.00 an hour or the $250.00 an hour fee?
http://wisconsinrecall.net/
Says yep, Grothman on the list.
His Wiki also shows him to be a real reichwingnut.
Even at the lower rate waaaaaaaaaaay overpaid.
“Wasserman noted the initial two sheriffs who escorted Wasserman and Thi from the Gallery never responded as to why they were ejected from the address.”
What Walker and co-conspirators are doing in Wisconsin is a criminal power grab and stealing from the citizens of that state. There is no “why.”
I’ve been up close and personal with the senator for several years. He likes to save a fetus or two when not stomping on public workers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAmDgnfRjPs
Yep he’s a jerk 24/7.
LOL! So funny! From David’s Lobbyist link:
So the Blue sea parted for Grothman’s exit?
What is FDL and its members opinion on DEMOCRAT Gordon Hintz turning to REPUBLICAN Michelle Litjens after the budget repair bill vote is Wisc. state assembly and saying “You’re Fucking Dead!”?
I am sure many of you left wing “ends justifies the means” @ss clowns will try and rationalize it.
Got a link for that quote?
Did the republicans hold a vote? Oh MY! What about the rest of the elected representatives?
It was heard by people next to them. That is the reason he apologized, because he was heard saying it by others. I am sure you don’t hear that part of the story in your circle of friends and news outlets.
I think he’s the guy who called the protesters ‘slobs’ on an MSNBC interview with Lawrence O’Donnell. Reminds me of Barbara Bush’s comment on visiting the center housing the flood victims in New Orleans – “They’ve probably never had it so good” (paraphrased.)
What does it say about people who categorically dismiss (millions) of other people as worthless, as maggots, as leaches who do nothing but prey on the righteous, god-fearing worthy, them.
And what does it say about so many other people who follow them, blind and deaf to the reality that in the eyes of the righteous they’re part of the great unwashed.
IOW it’s true because you say so. Don’t forget your free shit sandwich on the way out and don’t let the door…
Let me guess. You only watch Fox Nooze, right?
Do you have a link to a credible news source for this allegation?
Unions are one of the only means by which individuals without decisive amounts of power or money can effectively advocate for themselves. When unions, whether private or public, are dissolved it allows for the exploitation of workers, who on an individual basis have very little control. To put it country simple, unions help keep workers from getting fucked in the ass (as well as provide other valuable benefits to society, like maintaining standards and providing a conduit for professional knowledge). Most social, political and economic problems accrue from a power imbalance. Without unions, what do you think might provide an effective, symbiotic, balanced relationship between those what got and those what ain’t?
They were there… sleeping… But your comment in itself shows that somehow it was justified. so typical. You liberals and democrats are so morally and ethically bankrupt.
Can’t continue this anymore. I have to get back to work. Some people don’t have all day…
The reference to protesting thugs and slobs provides an example of what Grothman thinks of the citizens of Wisconsin and democracy.
Didn’t think you had anything credible. Please, run along.
I’m neither a liberal nor a Democrat. I’m a Wobbly.
So did you hear that story on Glenn Beck’s show? Or maybe it was from your Ditto Boy Rush? Don’t keep us in suspense. We’ve got a pool going.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up: Mike Huckabee a Victim of Epistemic Closure
I’ll take “What came out of frederic’s ass” for 200, Alex.
Once you’ve dehumanized people, it’s much easier to do inhuman things to them.
Why did you type Democrat and Republican in caps? Do you imagine these superficial labels matter? By what reasoning do you conflate Democrat with left wing?
Slightly OT – my wife just heard somebody say this while standing in the line for Financial Aid at her college -
The trolls are back! This blog is usually troll free so I’m guessing that this issue is of some import to those that pay people to troll or maybe FDL got a derisive link from some rightwing website.
It ’tis kind of fun to play with ‘em a little now and then… just to keep us all sharp around here.*g*
It might say that American Exceptionalism and the accident that US citizen’s parents happened to fuck within the nation’s borders doesn’t preclude the same sort of selfish, bigoted, authoritarian following that is the hallmark of any other Fascist system. And hacking away at education, a la Walker, is sure to exacerbate the problem because a functioning democracy is predicated on a thoughtful, educated, informed and relatively fearless citizenry.
This union = thug meme is wearing thin. I guess the right does not realize that these are government unions, and therefore most likely filled with professionals. That is of course not to say that tradeskill unions are somehow thuggish, but it is a bridge to far to say that Mrs. Smith that teaches 1st grade is somehow akin to Tony Soprano.
Anything to create a meme, create “evidence” and then point to those apparitions as proof that you are right.
What’s going on here? The post at #34 is from “WestCoast” but all of the responses are to “frederic.”
How’s that work?
Mods? Anyone?
He changed his nickname/display name. You are allowed to change that. Your username, that is used for login, remains the same.
I wondered whether or not this was
1) an attack on intellectualism; or
2) An attempt to defund, defame and destroy the public education system in order to give rise to more for-profit and quasi private/public institutions so that once again billionaires can rake in money from the government and provide a much worse product.
For right now my money is on #2.
Had to have changed in the last 15 minutes. It was originally from our old troll frederic.
If you watched Walker’s budget address yesterday, you’d see that your 2nd thought it spot on.
He wants to make k-12 a competitive sector, allowing further development of charter schools.
Also, he’s going to collude with the Dean at Madison – U to seperate that school from the state system and privatize it.
This is all about how they can take more money from the little people. Now they’re going after our childrens’ educations.
The Troller Formerly Known As Frederic :)
HeadedWest, WestCoast, frederic. Sheesh, I can’t keep up. *g*
“And all that happened is that Grothman had to endure protesters yelling “Shame, shame” and then couldn’t find an exit (his pal Gov. Walker had them all blocked) until a Democratic Representative came to his rescue:”
–Actually, when the protestors blocked Grothman at the locked entrance, this was very likely false imprisonment under legal definitions…
And of course exempt many of those “institutions” from testing or forms of local school board control, so that they can pay teachers shit, have terrible results and oh yeah some how cost more.
Now that comment was killer.
Biggest laugh I’ve had in a long time. Still giggling and my cheeks hurt from this grin I can’t wipe off my face. Thanks SD and David and Pups.
You’ve already missed your other troll friends. They left.
…and qualify for the newly passed tax breaks for new business in WI and hiring WI workers. Maybe they’ll hire some of those teachers with all that seniority that Walker’s going to fire next week?
But in the middle of a thread? That’s really bizarre.
Could care less.
Respond to the substance of what I said.
How? He had a reasonable means of escape, as evidenced by his colleges being able to get out and the Democratic Representative helping him out. Just because you are inconvenienced does not mean you were falsely imprisoned. Can he not go through the crowd at all? You need a lot more evidence then what is presented to level that charge.
Substance? What substance?
I thought I recognized ‘frederic.’ It seems like sockpuppeting to me, to change your display name in the middle of a thread so you aren’t (presumably) recognized. Then you could change it again and argue with the other “you” (or agree).
On Facebook, when someone changes their picture, it changes it throughout, even on old posts that displayed an earlier photo. I had assumed (incorrectly, obviously) that it worked the same here.
That would require posting the elements to the crime/tort, and then walking the facts through those elements and then analyzing the defenses. But I don’t think you can do that if you copy/paste talking points.
“How? He had a reasonable means of escape, as evidenced by his colleges being able to get out and the Democratic Representative helping him out.”
What about before the Democrat Rep. arrived?
And the fact that his colleague called for order did not necessarily mean that everyone in the crowd was going to respond accordingly.
“Can he not go through the crowd at all? You need a lot more evidence then what is presented to level that charge.”
Through that crowd? I’d think the jury would be very favorable (even one in Madison) to a lone individual facing that many people behind him.
You’re an apt representative of the repugs, here to call names and then run away. Maybe your behavior is justified tho, as you’re getting this little episode of republican attempt at stealing power shoved up your ass.
Last night my wife made a batch of absolutely wonderful oatmeal-raisin cookies. As I was polishing off my fourth I was thinking about the occasional troll we get around here…
Read it yourself:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=False+Imprisonment
If you doubt me about a certain element, then counter me on it…
Hey westcoast, where did you go? You are as inept as many of the other repug morons. Er, morans.
Mine is on #2 as well. Part of it, I think, is that the value of public education to CEOs and others in the ruling class is much less in a post-industrial, financed-based economy. Because public education in the US has primarily been about social efficiency and social reproduction, what captains of industry are concerned about producing decently educated factory workers when their largely automated industries are now in Mexico, China or elsewhere? You can always cull the requisite number of white collar specialists and managers from the middle- middle or upper-middle classes. One of the major consequences of cutting funding for public colleges and universities, privatizing them, and increasing tuition is that working class folks will not be able to afford a post-secondary education (we all know how vouchers work to provide a tax-based subsidy to folks who already can afford to send their kids to private schools).
If you are in the top 1-5% of the US population, and can leave the country, live in a gated community and have your own security force, what do you care about public education? What we see happening is not incompetence on the part of our “leaders,” it is their plan. The paring down of public education that is in the works, from the Obama administration’s continuance of NCLB to busting local teacher’s unions, will, however, have a seriously detrimental effect on the quality of life, quality of democracy and sense of community for rest of us.
To comment for a moment on the massive cuts to education at all levels – and I know I’ve brought this up before but it bears mention again –
http://www.fark.com/comments/1558414/Toyota-building-new-plant-in-Canada-despite-massive-subsidy-offers-from-American-states-Reason-southern-Americans-too-dumb-illiterate-to-train-need-directions-in-pictorial-form
Let me know if you want other links. In 2005 Toyota was offered all sorts of subsidies to build a plant in the southern USA but they went to Canada (with all those higher labor costs, etc) and Toyota said it was because the southern USA workers were too dumb to train. Of course, the south has been screwing with funding schools for decades…
I like that you didn’t actually parse the elements out for me, nor did you post the Wisconsin law on false imprisonment, but rather a more generalized dictionary.
General elements by the by:
1) Intent to confine
2) To a bounded area
3) Without justification; or
4) Consent
And, of course, there’s Robespierre who justified the Reign of Terror thus, “Out of pity and love of humanity, you must be inhuman” which I happen to think more than a few right-wingers believe – think Cheney.
“I like that you didn’t actually parse the elements out for me, nor did you post the Wisconsin law on false imprisonment, but rather a more generalized dictionary.”
(Well, I’m not your paralegal…)
Now that we have elements up, disprove them.
My theory is the mass of people “blocking his way” was a group of provocatuers. I think we should investigate the Governor.
PSS
WS sec. 940.30 is the criminal statute and is as follows:
“Whoever intentionally confines or restrains another without the person’s consent and with knowledge that he or she has no lawful authority to do so is guilty of a Class H felony.”
I think you have an intent problem. This is not a specific intent crime, but peacefully being in a place where you lawfully have a right to be is hardly any kind of intent. Not to mention that once the crowd was organized to move, it cooperated.
Actually you would have to prove those elements beyond a reasonable doubt, not me disprove an element.
It’s your responsibility to prove your assertions, not our responsibility to disprove them.
Owe ya a beverage.
How’s this for evidence?
As a personal example, the elementary school I attended was built in the late 1950s and was modeled after the layout of a factory with centralized administration and wings for the various grades. Why? Because the idea was that most of us would grow up to work in the Detroit automotive, Toledo glass, Cleveland steel or Akron rubber industries. Those days are gone. US corporations need far less decently educated machinists, welders, fitters, secretaries, and foundry workers than they did a generation ago. So why publicly fund schools when the profit needs of corporations lie elsewhere? Why be concerned about the public good in an increasingly stratified society where money and power are ever more concentrated in the hands of the top 1-5% of the population? A consumer and financed-based economy that no longer domestically produces much of what it needs can (supposedly) afford to rely on just the graduates who can pay for private education. The shorter version of all this? Screw the middle class and below.
“PSS
WS sec. 940.30 is the criminal statute and is as follows:
“Whoever intentionally confines or restrains another without the person’s consent and with knowledge that he or she has no lawful authority to do so is guilty of a Class H felony.”
I think you have an intent problem. This is not a specific intent crime, but peacefully being in a place where you lawfully have a right to be is hardly any kind of intent. Not to mention that once the crowd was organized to move, it cooperated.”
1). There’s also a possible tort claim
2). Regarding intent- they (especially the individuals at the front) blocked his way from behind, with a locked door in front of him. They did not move away once he reached the entrance.
3). Also, as I mentioned before, the claim involves the actions before his colleague spoke. Evidently, the Democrat felt the situation serious enough to act and try to restore peace before the mob, no?
4). Why did some of the crowd members have to start screaming “peaceful”… if the crowd was already supposedly so peaceful as you claim? And why did they have to keep repeating it to remind everybody? Apparently, some people felt their fellow crowd members were potentially going to do something violent in the situation…
Pretty much. The thing is they would want to keep truancy laws in place at least to force people into the crappy for profit schools so that they can make more money.
I love how 50k average pay w/ 25k in benefits for people with graduate and above level education is somehow unreasonable. Maybe we could get people with as little as 2 year degrees, no certification and pay them a whopping 20k and no benefits. I really want that person near my children.
“Actually you would have to prove those elements beyond a reasonable doubt, not me disprove an element.”
There’s a possible tort claim, as well. And that’s not the tort standard.
As the plaintiff you would have the preponderance of the evidence standard.
Why do I have to post all the actual legal terms of art? Btw i recognized the possible tort action in post #75. Also, you are making a lot of assertions with regards to a statement of fact but do not offer a link nor a citation.
While false imprisonment does not have an element for damages, there are no physical damages. Can you tell me what he would have to do next?
That is the plan. You can bet on it. And kleptocractic shit like this will fuck over most of the folks in Wisconsin.
Oh yeah you have 4 points, also the elements are parsed out into four points, but many of your points are either tangential or go just intent as a point. Maybe 1) Intent then “a-z” for your subheadings.
Maybe… but then again, maybe you are conjecturing that’s *some* were going to get violent, when, in fact, the crowd was just chanting “peaceful.”
Unless you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this politician was truly in actual danger, your conjectures are pretty meaningless.
Oh but he has a tort claim too!! For which I had to post the standard.
…because there IS proof that provocation is part of the government’s strategy. Why so silent on that salient point, cali?
Last night on MSNBC He called the Protesters a bunch of slobs.
Yes, thanks: another good point. Scott Walker was busted on tape claiming that he’d consider using “agent provocatuers.” There’s absolutely no proof one way or the other that Walker isn’t doing just that. I’m sure that David Koch would not find funding agent provocatuers beneath him.
Again: it’s all conjecture, but the fact is that Walker did firmly state that he’d consider doing that.
I know… pretty silly stuff. People want to sue over everything these days, and yet, isn’t it the conservatives who constantly whining about tort claims and how much trial lawyers make???
Cognitive dissonance, much? But then again: it’s the conservative way…
No that only applies when the plaintiff is otherwise powerless and because of lack of government regulation or enforcement had their lives crippled as a result. Some dude going out the wrong door in order to try and be a victim and stir the pot is exactly the kind of person that needs protecting.
No certification and crap pay? At college, that’s what grad students are for. :)
BTW, did you catch the “Are You Sick of Highly Paid Teachers” bit that is going around?
http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?note_id=666995678863&id=71209634
So, let’s play a game…I’m working at Staples Center on the electronics before the Laker/Celtic game. I’m done with my job and instead of leaving through the back door, the one all my co-workers used and we were all told to use to avoid the crowds, I choose to go out one of the front exits, only it’s blocked by all the fans waiting to get into the hall for the game. I have to finally yell for help, and am lucky enough that some of the fans and maybe a couple of cops make a path so I can leave.
False imprisonment?
Or dumb move on my part?
And who am I asking to be arrested, who am I suing?
There is no way that guy went “slumming” through a crowd of “slobs” without security back-up and a plan to arrest and prosecute anyone who touched him. This is pure theater. All he got was a five second delay on his planned route, and an embarrassing Bush moment when he couldn’t get in through what should normally be an unlocked door.
Weak.
He said they were a bunch of slobs on MSNBC. Typical right wing propaganda.
http://americanglob.com/2011/02/28/wisconsin-protester-photo-of-the-day
And he repeated it live on WPR call-in this morning. I’m surprised nobody has found this little gem of a record on Grothman.
Five years worth of Grothman
“Oh yeah you have 4 points, also the elements are parsed out into four points, but many of your points are either tangential or go just intent as a point. Maybe 1) Intent then “a-z” for your subheadings.”
My points weren’t directed at the four elements in order. They mostly concerned your argument regarding intent. Respond to the questions raised, if you feel they are erroneous.
Now as for being “confined”, it would be up to the jury: one individual, with a locked door in front of him, with a wall of hundreds (or whatever the total is) behind him; the same crowd, that minutes before was verbally assaulting him and following him. The crowd didn’t begin to dissipate until the Dem Rep. urged them to calm down. They had to be warned repeatedly not to act violently.
I think we can all agree, there was no “consent” from Grothman to be trapped in such a manner, and that the members of the crowd had no authority to confine him.
Regarding intent- ok, this is what a hypothetical case would turn on to be sure, but in addition to what I said, did the crowd (especially the people in front) back up once they saw the door couldn’t be opened? No. Did they make any verbal indication to him that they weren’t going to restrain him until the Rep. spoke? No. If you feel that this doesn’t represent intent- again, from the crowd members up front- then demonstrate why.
“Unless you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this politician was truly in actual danger, your conjectures are pretty meaningless.”
Um, where is an “actual danger” requirement located in the statute? Is this from WI case law- if so present some cases. Otherwise…
“And why did they have to keep repeating it to remind everybody?
…because there IS proof that provocation is part of the government’s strategy. Why so silent on that salient point, cali?”
–Well, because with nothing more, it’s pure speculation. Do you have any proof regarding the specific individuals shown on the videotape?
Remember Crooks & Liars guy breathlessly stating that “Andrew Breitbart was punked by people dressing up as doctors handing out sick notes” last week?… only, to be shown incorrect just an hour later? What will you have then if your SEIU person really is an SEIU person, and the liberal protestors really are liberal protestors? You will have nothing.
“And why did they have to keep repeating it to remind everybody?
…because there IS proof that provocation is part of the government’s strategy. Why so silent on that salient point, cali?”
–Well, because with nothing more, it’s pure speculation. Do you have any proof regarding the specific individuals shown on the videotape?
Remember Crooks & Liars guy breathlessly stating that “Andrew Breitbart was punked by people dressing up as doctors handing out sick notes” last week?… only, to be shown incorrect just an hour later? What will you have then if your SEIU person really is an SEIU person, and the liberal protestors really are liberal protestors? You will have nothing.
Hey Rafe, that’s a stretch that would impress Plasticman.
LOL, sorry that is funny shit right there.