It shouldn’t be too long before the Wisconsin legislature finishes off a bill to strip collective bargaining rights from public employees. The State Assembly gaveled into session at 12:34pm CT.
Peter Barca, the Assembly Minority Leader and the one who could be seen shouting about the illegality of last night’s conference committee, just offered a motion to remove Jeff Fitzgerald as Speaker. So this is getting off to a rowdy start.
Barca said Fitzgerald has “impaired judgement” and that “last night he violated the law” by not upholding the state’s open meetings law.
Barca offered a litany of other reasons. He said Fitzgerald has told him that debate on the bill will be limited to two hours, which is says is anti-democratic. He said Fitzgerald is not acting to enforce the court order that the building be open to the public, and cited that some members of the Assembly and the press were kept from accessing the chamber.
“The speaker should control that. He’s our constitutional office. But the speaker’s judgement is impaired,” Barca said.
There are enough protesters in the Capitol for the sound of the chanting to be heard on the Assembly floor.
Meanwhile, in a curious move, the Legislative Fiscal Bureau produced a new analysis of the bill, changed from the previous night, which includes more elements of the original budget repair bill. Nobody could produce a copy of the actual legislation in time for the conference committee session yesterday, leading to speculation that it was being written while the session was going on. The Director of the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, Bob Lang, said that these omissions were just oversights, and the bill language remained the same throughout. Mm-hm.
If you read the LFB correction, you’ll see that the sale of state-owned heating, cooling and power plants has returned to the bill.
There are two items in the LFB’s March 10 document that are not reflected in the March 9 document.
1. The March 10 document includes a provision of the substitute amendment on the Earned Income Tax Credit (page 3, #1).
2. The March 10 document includes a provision of the substitute amendment on the Sale and Contractual Operation of State-Owned Power Plants (page 20, #1).
So now changes to the Earned Income Tax Credit is considered a “non-fiscal item.” Got it. Keep in mind that in a press conference today, Scott Walker basically said that yes, stripping collective bargaining has a fiscal impact, but no, it doesn’t conflict with quorum laws, so go pound sand. The lawyers are going to have a field day with this bill, I predict.
Meanwhile, Senate Democrats, recognizing they can do little more on this bill from Illinois, are returning to Madison. They may get there in time for a large rally planned today at 5:00pm CT.
We’ll be monitoring, but the legislative aspect of this is a fait accompli. The judicial and electoral aspects? That’s another matter. And don’t forget the possibility of a general strike.




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You’ve got to give these assholes high marks for balls. Brains? Not so much. They’re digging themselves a deeper judicial and legal grave by the minute.
Agreed. But think of the damage they can do in the interim. And I doubt all of it can be “undone” by their replacements. This is sickening. I have never even been to Wisconsin and I’m outraged by this.
‘Mule,
Been thinkin the same thing all day.
Thanks for the update David.
I live next door in Minnesota. My mother was born in Osceola, WI. Wisconsin is a beautiful place, physically. It’s gotten very ugly politically.
I think so. . . toothpaste out of the tube.
The next wild card will be how many union members opt out when they are able, or shortly thereafter. What happens to them supposing Dems take back the Assembly and/or House due to recalls (results not guaranteed)? Regarding any subsequent return to the status quo ante, Walker will have a veto pen lasting long enough to stymie that ’till next year, no?
All of it will rapidly age like something less savory than fine wine.
http://www.channel3000.com/localvideo/index.html?v=live
for those of you with broadband, live streaming of the session in WI.
Here’s a link to the LFB memo produced this morning that is referenced in the link you give. Looks like not only the power plant privatization is back along with EITC, but also the study of the retirement system, unless I’m missing something. I don’t get why the LFB email would say the study is not in it when it is.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-13Bills/2011_03_10_WILeg_CC.pdf
This is sooooo illegal. No copies of the bill available before the vote? Bill still being written *possibly* while the vote took place? That voids the vote right there, doesn’t it? If someone can prove that in court, it’s over for this particular schtick. The rethuglicans will have to find a new way to bleed their constituents.
Peter Barca, btw, is a hero.
This is why we need to work for JoAnn Kloppenberg, so she can kick David Prosser off the WI Supreme Court:
http://www.kloppenburgforjustice.com/
You know what to do.
It was done yesterday :)
And I’ve tweeted the link to her website multiple times. I hope she kicks his ass.
This is depressing. A handful of cocksuckers should not be in a position to fuck over thousands of citizens. If this is Democracy, then Democracy does not work.
we don’t have a democracy it is a sham. politicians have been screwing the people on behalf of their masters for a long time. all that is going on now is they are no longer pretending they serve the people or care what they think. they are doing it in the open….because they know they can get away with it. mark my words if the people of WI try to resolve this through the legal process, which will take forever, it will be way too late.
Stupid, I don’t know. It will depend on how sustained the outrage is. They have thirty years or more of evidence that the public rolls over and shrugs (or kicks their dog) when the R’s stage a coup. With no sign that there will be consequences for their actions, of course they’ll double down.
The people have let Democracy atrophy. It can still work. But there is a lot of re-educating and re-energizing to do.
the people have been dumbed down in school on purpose. how many people now how are monetary system works or the real role of the FED Reserve. If they did we would already have had a revolution. how many people still think there are two parties? how many understood what all the free trade agreements were really about? or understood the financial deregulation under clinton and then bush?
we are all brainwashed in school sold a bunch of patriotic BS wrapped up in heavy doses of fear, and if you manage to wake up from it, most people think you are a loon.
Keep in mind that a strike is exactly what Walker wants. Then he will fire the union workers, Reagan style.
I’m a proud native Cheesehead/Badger presently incarcerated (it seems like!) in AZ. I HATE what has happened to my state.
Jake
UW class of 1975
If I were in WI, I could, but since she can’t take money, I can’t!
Jake
Phoenix
Who can argue with that?
are you serious/ walker has declared war? What is he going to do fire everyone? please WI will come to a standstill.
Go Peter Barca!
War really? lets get some perspective.
Outsource education. Bring in the Chinese. Hell they do a better job at it anyway
Sadly, couldn’t agree with you more.
My main concern was that Koch, et al, wouldn’t blink, would push for a coup just like this because the Elites figure, correctly, that they can most likely *get away with it.*
Our media is owned by the Elites, so they will never report “fairly” on this, and in fact, there’s very little in the news about it. I noted yesterday that almost none of my Union-worker friends & acquaintances in CA have a *clue* about what’s happening in WI. They’re all too busy watching junk tv and being anesthesized into complacency; believe me, they truly think: it won’t happen to ME. Hope not but wouldn’t count on it.
yep! and the trick about being perceived as a “loon” is twofold: 1) firstly, it causes those of us who’ve recognized “the matrix” tend to be more circumspect about our observations, and 2) should we voice our feelings & opinions, those who disagree with us can readily & easily “write us off.”
Net trick brought to you by the Elites, who benefit the most from this.
If they slip (or have slipped) the utility sales into this legislation, the sale could move forward very quickly (as in “no oversight”). Sure, you could get an injunction, but can you still hold up the sale after the fact?
My main concern was that Koch, et al, wouldn’t blink, would push for a coup just like this because the Elites figure, correctly, that they can most likely *get away with it.*
Of course they know they can get away with it. They imploded the entire economy, millions lost their jobs, homes underwater…what happened? they got trillions in tax payer dollars and paid themselves even bigger bonuses.
torture, rendition, lying about wmd’s killing innocent people, spending trillions of taxpayer money to kill people what happen? NOTHING. In fact new administrations keeps up the policies.
Destroy the gulf, what happens? A 20 billion slap.
Of course they know they can get away with it. We let them
Will you be going to the “Quantico, VA: Rally for Bradley! March 20“?
“WORTnews WORT News
WLEA: Troopers asking for legal protection from “illegal” use of State Patrol by the Governor #wiunion
7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
“WORTnews WORT News
#WI Troopers: Gov. is barred from using State Patrol “in any dispute… concerning wages, hours, labor, or working conditions.” #wiunion
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Repl”
LINK.
Thank you, fatster.
“Signal lost” on the Live Stream video inside the Wisconsin state house, folks.
All unions must STRIKE….and it’s not just in Wisconsin. The whole country should just go home. Mofos.
OT, but could someone help me? I’m trying to find out what is going on in my state, Michigan. I haven’t found a good site to go to for info, I can’t go myself because I’m sick, but have a number of people who I need to get mobilized out to Lansing. Anyone? Thanks.
Why Sconnies Kick Ass, #12312789745:
I guess we’ll just have to pass the bill so that we can all learn what is in it. Wait, where did I hear THAT before???
I agree. So let’s bust those teacher’s unions and let the marketplace decide the who’s and how’s of our education system once and for all. The teacher’s unions have failed us all.
I think the only way this is going to change is through revolution. The trouble with revolution is the fact that you don’t know what you are going to get. But we are getting real close.
There is someone I read, William Pensinger, who wrote a piece called Unrevolution, the web page is unavailable so I cannot provide a link. That would be the point where all it takes is a feather to push them all over. That people are convinced of all the lies about budgets which really are just a swap of money from us to those who already have, is blind ignorance, or a desire for theirs, and our destruction.
Here is a link..budget cuts vs. tax breaks.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/02/tax_breaks_infographic.html
It is fucking disgusting. As far as I am concerned I see no reason to recognize anything that this government proposes. There is not one thing that the people of the United States of America want that is supported by This or any other administration, and working within this system is a lesson in futility.
Maybe all of you are not there yet but I sure as hell am. I am neither right, left or independent. I have no label but that of Human Being and I am tired of not being treated like one. They call us the useless eaters, like their murders and wars are something to aspire to and if you don’t you are scum, cannon fodder or a data point to be monetized for self aggrandizement by those who are truly the scum of the earth.
What is the tax loophole for hedge fund managers?
Try this while I see if I can find more.
Of course I support anything workers can do to stick it to the rich is fine by me. I hope we win eventually in Wisc. But let’s face facts: the system is broken, folks. Capitalism won’t be satisfied until it destroys everything. I’ll say it again: we need an entirely different system. Liberal democracy is nothing more than oligarchy because the elite are always in control. It’s always been that way. There has never been democracy anywhere.
Look at how bad things are. We need alternatives.
I am a little surprised at the response generally here on FDL. This outcome was predetermined last November and the only way it gets changed in at the ballot box in 2012. Perhaps there will be recalls, perhaps a new democratic member of the court will vote party line and put politics ahead of anything else. Perhaps, but the real change occurs at the ballot box.
What marketplace? ~~~Edited by Moderator~~~
Thanks so much. We need help!!! I found this on Michigan Messenger:
Oh sure…like 2000, 2004…we are way past that.
Ack, don’t know how to do links, obviously:
http://michiganmessenger.com/47203/emergency-managers-bill-sweeps-toward-final-approval
..or the Trojan Horse prize in 2008.
Go get those rats. poosh! That’s what they are.
Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder’s new tax plan could be immune from voter repeal
“The 183-page tax overhaul bill, introduced by House Republicans, includes a $100 appropriation that makes it legally immune to a citizens’ referendum.”
LINK.
Go poosh!!!
Sounds like they are passing all this stuff all over the place to tie everything up in the courts.
Thanks again! Off I go to my daughter and friends at U of M, people at CCS, etc.
“Rats” are too good for them. They’re bleeding warts on the butt-end of the universe.
Worry about the link technique later.
from this facebook link:
“This is a clear case of political over-reach to undermine the rights of Michigan citizens and attack political enemies. Therefore, a protest has been planned from Noon – 6:00 p.m. on March 16th, 2011 to fight back against the anti-middle class, anti-working families agenda of Gov. Rick Snyder and the Legislature and serving notice that we will be heard and call out any politician who doesn’t have the best interest of Michigan’s middle and working class at heart. ”
I got to it through twitter (which always has rumor in it, so be discerning). Here’s the twitter link I used.
The loophole that says Hedge fund managers earnings are taxed at the Capital Gains rate of 15% rather than as regular earnings.
Even though it is not actually a Capital Gain
http://www.michiganliberal.com/
sometimes has calls to action
What are a school teachers capital gains taxed at?
Their salaries are still taxed as ordinary income right? Its just money that they have invested in the fund. Seems like capital gains to me.
thanks for this!
The one you and I wake up to every morning. The marketplace where employers and employees interact.. Or other buyers and sellers.
Sack up, FDLers! You don’t like the way we move jobs to other countries? Stop patronizing the businesses that do so. Take control of your own destiny – don’t ask for the unions and the government to do it for you. Vote out Obama. But stop whining and stop talking about violent revolution. That’s counterproductive and just works in the movies.
Has anyone seen Obama since this started?—why is he getting a free pass for hiding out from his base?
Explain, and please be specific, how the fuck have teacher’s unions failed us? Do you mean teachers have failed us?
But fatster, that demonstration is not til next Wed! A little like showing up for a carnival after it’s moved on to the next town… I’ll keep looking and checking.
I’m most worried about the emergency managers BS, taking all local control from towns and giving it to people who can decide to fire officials, sell off water, whatever the heck they feel like doing!
http://michiganmessenger.com/47203/emergency-managers-bill-sweeps-toward-final-approval
I’m sure Obama has been playing golf with, and having nice dinners with, his base. It’s just Democrats that are left out in the Wisconsin cold.
EDIT: Oh, and doing fund-raisers with.
Read the original post #15
Yes, it is a huge swoop of power, Snyder’s budget bill, and we have almost no Dems at all in the House and Senate.
School teachers Capital Gains, if they should be so lucky to have any, are also at 15% – but the Hedge fund SALARIES are taxed at the Capital Gains rate, not as ordinary income. They aren’t investing squat.
Ayn Rand was a horrible writer. First.
Second. Libertarians stole the term from real libertarians…anarchists. Libertairians are hard right authoritarians, hardly for liberty. I’d suggest you call yourself an authoritatian capitalist instead of a libertarian.
Tax Breaks for Billionaires (from 2007 but still the situation today)
Watching all of this take place all accross the country (I’ts NOT just Wisconsin) I’ve come to the conclusion that is just another one of those times when the overton window is taking another large step right.
The Democrats didn’t represent the people, and because of their failures, a lot voters figured why bother voting when both parties are the same last November.
So, knowing this, the PTB are orchestrating that the Republican Party turn FURTHER right. Then, the Democratic Party can turn even further right and STILL be considered an “opposition party” by many.
It’s a win/win situation. If the voters still vote Republican anyway, then they get radical right policies, and if the voters are once again fooled into believing the Democratic Party is on their side, well that’s OK too since they will have moved even further right.
The question is, how many voters WILL be fooled??? I fear too many, and thus, another chance for real change at the ballot box will be lost.
The national Democratic Party, in case anyone is following, has NOT been our saviours during this mess. The only Democrats acting like Democrats have been state and local ones. So again, deeds prove the national Democrats are NOT representing the working man or the little man. So why should the working man or little man reward that behaviour with their votes?
Our only hope is to NOT reward that behaviour, NOT be fooled once again into voting for the lesser of two evils, and to either push for a third party OR push the national Democrats out and move the state and local D’s into those national offices. Of course, that may fail because the party apparatus at the national level will do whatever it takes to make sure new Congress critters understand who’s buttering their bread.
It looks to me like the third party may be out only hope. And there’s NO hope for that if too many are once again fooled into supporting the Democrats in next year’s national elections.
Their salaries are taxed as ordinary income. The portion that might qualify for capital gains are paid out of the fund as bonuses. Since they are coming out of the fund’s performance they are absolutely capital gains. What happens if the fund has a negative return? Then they don’t get anything, or they are getting paid a bonus our of the management fees. Which is also taxed as ordinary income….not capital gains.
Never said I was a libertarian. Never met Ayn.
You know so much about me. I’m impressed.
So are we dead in the water, cuz of a lack of Dems? I usually don’t like Dems, either, these days, but dang…
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/03/michigan-budget-would-let-republicans-dis-incorporate-whole-cities-dismiss-elected-officials/
I am enraged and feel useless because of my f-ing chronic illness…ARG!…
I soooooo hear you on that.
How successful will a recall be? I mean, the odds are poor. Then the law has to be repealed. We need action now. General strike, while risky, is the only thing people have to make these corrupt politicians fear us.
Sorry, but a “management/carrying fee” when it creates the vast majority of the hedge fund managers income may be a lot of things but Capital gains it is not. The Hedge Fund manager does not invest any of his/her own money so that sure smacks of regular income to everyone but those who fantasize that those hedge fund managers earn that type of income because of their inherent awesomeness
Its tied to the performance and is paid out of the fund. Its no different if you decided that you were going to retire and live off of trading in your personal brokerage account.
What utter bullshit.
First, if those payments do come out of gains made by the fund, they would be capital gains to those that OWN the fund, NOT those that administer it. In that case it would be an expense to the fund and ordinary income to the administrators.
Second, the rest of the gibberish is bullshit too.
But it’s not the individual’s personal account. There were no investments by the individual to create that income. It is a fee charged. You can attempt to rationalize it anyway you want but everywhere but in the world of Hedge fund managers and their captive folks in DeeCee, it is income.
I’ve lived in Wisconsin for 60 of my almost 64 years and today has me devastated. I thought my disappointment in Obama would be the low water mark but this is even worse cause it’s home. This tea-gov had an official statement whose contents bugged me than it hit. His reference to unleashing business to create his touted 250K private sector jobs could be direct replacements of public sector employees. I may be jumping to conclusions but I’m just saying. Walker has got to go.
My daughter called and said “Hu wei, Mom, hu wei.” Hey hey foo way, I say. If I had half the “inherent awesomeness” of above hedge fund managers, maybe I’d hu my wei with tax-free regular income, shit, well…maybe it’s time for a gin and tonic, or two, to avoid a stroke. Sheesh.
Yes the capital gains belong to the fund partners. The fund manager is almost always the general partner so capital gains tax rate make sense for the fund carry.
You’re right, but facts don’t matter to these trolls.
Capital gains are realized when funds distrubute their increase in value to those that own the fund. That’s NOT what this is. This is a regular expense of the fund, and is expensed by the fund, NOT written off as a distrubtion. Administration fees for funds are expenses just like buying paper to print the montly statements on is an expense. And those ARE NOT capital gains, except as you noted they convinced their pawns in DC to declare them as such.
The investment carry is just that. Its a piece of the gain on investments made by the fund.
Normally recall is a long shot but these are not ordinary times. In the April elections we have 3 open Assembly seats and a supreme court race as well as Milwaukee county exec where a Walker ally is running. The strength of the opposition will be a barometer.
Yes, the Fund not to the manager of the fund
the manager is a partner in the fund. There is certainly no guarantee of investment carry. I realize its a large piece of their compensation package but it really isn’t any different than some old retires living off their ford dividend income.
Some Democrats in Congress, Feinstein for one, are calling him out on his detachment during “negotiations” with the Republicans on budget cuts. No one seems to be talking about his overall detachment yet, but that may come with time. I don’t know how his base feels, but some in his party apparently aren’t too happy.
Even still, that particular portion is income that is not available to the rest of the fund partners.
And why is it that “unearned” income should be taxed at such a lesser rate than earned income anyway?
More bullshit.
It’s apparent bullshit is all you’ve got to spread.
The fund managers ARE NOT owners of the fund, therefore, there is NOTHING that increased in value for them. Capital gains are distributed to the OWNERS of the fund. The people who have stock in that fund. The manager’s may have some of their own money in the funds, and if so, if they get a capital gains distrubtion along with the rest of the shareholders, THAT would be capital gains. But the fees to manage the fund are just EXPENSES, not capitagl gains distrubtions.
Always tell a right winger is near. The smell of bullshit gets strong.
Why is it unearned income?
They make terrible investment choices and lose the capital they get nothing. They make smart or even lucky choices and the benefit from capital appreciation?
The partners own the fund and I said managers are more often than not the general partner of the fund. Not sure where the B.S. is in that statement.
Ah what’s this? The great HeadedWest is unaware of the official designation of interest, rental, and capital gains as Unearned Income?
Unearned Income
Unearned Income
It is officially designated as such to differentiate it from income derived from people who actually have to work, aka Earned income.
The bullshit is right in the first sentence of this post too.
“managers are more often than not the general partner of the fund. BULLSHIT. The managers are merely banksters that make the investment decisions. If you give them a great deal of your money, they will invest it for you too, for a fee. And they are NOT owners of your money and this fee IS NOT a capital gains distribution.
Yeah, and it’s taxed LESS than earned income, which is exactly bassackwards from the way it should be. It should at the very least be taxed at the same level as earned income, if not higher. But as usual, our tax policies screw the working person and aid the wealthy investors. Just the way Republicans and right wingers like it.
I misunderstood your previous post.
I’m not arguing that unearned income should be taxed at a lower rate. I am arguing that there is no capital gains loophole for hedge fund managers. I actually think all income should be taxed at the same rate be it ordinary income, investment income or anything thing else you want to come up with.
Why you choose to use that condescending tone when I have done nothing but be respectful towards you in this conversation I don’t really understand.
Great catch!
ObamaCare. So now it’s sauce for the gander?
I’m not jesting either. All the standards, expectations of how gov’t should go about legislating — it’s been on a downhill trajectory for quite awhile. Years, I think, at least back through W’s administration and maybe before.