I don’t think there’s a bigger campaign promise that Barack Obama made than getting troops out of Iraq. His opposition to the war is the reason he won the nomination; I don’t even think that’s a controversial statement. And of the many advances he’s touted in his first week as a candidate for re-election, there hasn’t been a bigger one that getting our troops out of Iraq. The final phase of that process is scheduled for the end of 2011, a year before the election.
Or is it? Speaking in Iraq today, Defense Secretary Robert Gates hinted that US troops could stay longer.
US troops could if required by Iraq stay in the country beyond the agreed withdrawal date of 31 December, 2011, the US defence secretary has said.
Robert Gates, who is visiting Iraq, says an extended military presence is an option.
“If folks here are going to want us to have a presence, we’re going to need to get on with it pretty quickly in terms of our planning,” he said.
This would be taken as a final betrayal, I believe, in the eyes of many of President Obama’s supporters. There are a couple big issues to the Democratic base that will not be able to be overcome: a sellout on retirement security and a broken promise on Iraq.
However, it’s not quite that simple. Notice Gates’ words. He says that the US needs clarity quickly if “folks here are going to want us to have a presence.” In fact, under the terms of the status of forces agreement, Iraq would have to ask for an extended presence of ground troops for the US to grant it. Now there’s probably some pressure from the White House to get Iraq to make that ask. Unrest as part of the Arab uprising and concerns about tensions in Kirkuk, as well as the general inertia around issues of war and the fact that the American empire never leaves without being pushed, probably are weighing on the White House. Recently US forces went into Kirkuk unilaterally, which is outside the bounds of the SOFA. I’ve heard rumors that Obama doesn’t want to have “lost Iraq,” and is trying to come up with a back-up plan.
But if there’s a concern that a full drawdown of US forces could lead to sectarian violence, allowing forces to stay could very easily lead to the overthrow of the government. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki would have a very tenuous hold on power if he allowed some US forces to stay, either in Kirkuk or throughout Iraq. His coalition includes the Sadrists, who would almost certainly bolt the coalition in that event. Muqtada al-Sadr firmly opposes any US presence on Iraqi soil, and has reiterated that in recent days. Aside from Maliki wondering about his own political career, both countries would have to be concerned about the destabilizing event of a government collapse years before the next election was supposed to take place.
Gates wants Iraq to decide quickly, which kind of tells you where he and the US want to go – with a continuing presence. In fact, Gates said it himself. “I think there is interest in having a continuing presence, but the politics are such that we’ll just have to wait and see because the initiative ultimately has to come from the Iraqis.” And the artificial deadline is meant to up the pressure.
But Maliki is highly unlikely to threaten his own hold on power. In a statement, Maliki said he replied to Gates by saying that “our armed forces in the military and police have the power to confront any attack, and their capabilities to impose security and stability increase day by day.” But between the lines, this isn’t about security capabilities, it’s about politics. And Maliki has some serious competing pressures here.
UPDATE: Video of the Gates Q&A:



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We need to bring ALL the troops home from all over the world.
Absolute shameless fuckery.
The attack in Tikrit really spooked the US military–as intended by whoever did it. And Gates is saying that we are thinking about taking the bait.
And in Afghanistan, Abdullah Abdullah is threatening massive peaceful protests against the Karzai government’s failure to stop corruption and run an open government. Seems that Karzai’s little gambit with the Terry Jones information is backfiring in some parts of the country.
@1 Starting with Okinawa and moving on to all the cushy billets that people joined the military to get and instead got Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. In addition to getting out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and wherever else US troops are in combat. Might also withdraw the troops from redstate America as well. Enough with the Republican jobs program.
Apparently, only the professional left thought that getting out was ever an option.
I don’t know how seriously I’m going to take this yet. He can’t think that this won’t have big political consequences. He just…how could he convince himself that this is something he can do? He can’t possibly be that tone deaf. I mean really.
Iraq still has oil?
Yeah, we’re not going anywhere.
i know im living in bizzaro world,but what can i do about it?
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/characters/who-images/bizarro1.jpg
There is no decent reason for American forces to be in Irak. The End.
Why does Maliki get to decide? No one asked what our opinion is.
But how are we going to defend Germany from…
You know, it just occurred to me that if this actually goes down, a US presence past the deadline, then that might be a tipping point to get people really riled up here in the US. And throw in some sort of crisis, short or long term. It would be an act of pure hubris that I hadn’t even thought of as a possibility.
Earlier today I was talking in the comments about how sometimes stuff that gets put forward by wingnuts and teabaggers is the kind of thing you’re never surprised to hear but you’re still shocked to hear it said, in a way. This would be exactly, exactly, like that.
U.S. troops will leave [insert country here] by [insert date here.]
U.S. troops will leave [insert country] by [insert date six months before either in-country election or US election here].
There, I fixed it.
But if there’s a concern that a full drawdown of US forces could lead to sectarian violence,
it’s been so peaceful lately in Iraq.
allowing forces to stay could very easily lead to the overthrow of the government. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki would have a very tenuous hold on power
aw shucks, he’s been doing a heckuva job
Aside from Maliki wondering about his own political career,
switzerland’s pretty nice place.
In fact, Gates said it himself. “I think there is interest in having a continuing presence
at least till the oil is pumped dry.
no meters on the oil wells for at least seven years after the invasion.
that’s why Gates/Obama/Bush/oilco want to stay.
as for the citizens of the USA and Iraq wanting the americans out.
best stated by Cheney, “so what”.
I will be more surprised if the troops don’t stay.
temporarily, until
enough oil money has been stolen,there is a solid democracy established.sorry, I don’t mean to be rude to Dave. not intended to be directed at Dave.
Typo alert: defense. Is that a (sic) error in the original, or a mistake in typing the transcript of the audio?
Wanna bet?
While I would certainly add to the list of failures that makes me want someone other than Obama…there seem to be no end to the list of people who are willing to ignore all of them because he’s Obama.
Don’t get me wrong I think that a TeaPublican President would be terrible for this country.
But I cannot understand the number of times some people are willing to get kicked in the gonads or slapped in the face to justify Obama being President.
He’s more or less been a failure. Yet people are gleefully saying they’re “In” for 2012?
The sooner Grayson or Kucinich or even Eric Fucking Massa step in to challenge him, all the better.
The fake liberals need a system shock, now.
And President Pinocchio plans to do both.
It’s a UK article and an alternative British spelling, like “theatre.”
We need to get Elizabeth Warren to challenge him.
Thanks. I wondered about that possibility.
Every time I think about a primary challenger for 2012 I get more and more pissed at John Edwards. If he’d kept it in his pants he’d be perfectly positioned to rally progressives as either a primary challenger or a third-party candidate. I hate him for fucking us over almost as much as I hate Obama. And that’s saying something.
How about Alan Grayson?
Loud, brash, in your face.
Nothing against Warren, but I think Grayson’s speeches would be barnburners that would make Obama’s look insufficiently Presidential.
Really? Who-is-porking-who is nobody’s business.
If regular people had any sense they wouldn’t care about who-is-porking-who and just hire the right candidate. But noooo, we have to care about people’s relationship status, and then have a double standard about it a-la frikking Newt Gingrich.
The problem lied not in Edwards, but in our culture; still does. So hate away, for all the good it will do you.
Kelly —
Not disagreeing with you on the issue of whether private life should be a relevant factor. However, I think we can both admit that in current circumstances it is. Also, in the Edward’s case, there are two added issues:
a) Cheating on a dying wife.
b) The on-going criminal investigation into the possible illegal use of campaign funds (and possibly perjury related thereto) in an effort to cover up the infidelity.
And don’t you agree with my primary premise, that an un-sullied Edwards would be the logical frontrunner to challenge Obama?
BTW, a writer friend of mine posted this on another blog. Pretty good summation of the Obama regime:
Sure. But double standard applies – Gingrich forgiven of the exact same issues. That’s all.
People do crazy things when they are under a lot of pressure. I am not saying that it is fine and dandy to cheat on your dying spouse. What I am saying is that living with a dying person can cause the care taker spouse to act out in unseemly ways.
F&%@ no…
Agree about pressure makes people do strange things. However, again, my major premise is that if Edwards had kept it in his pants, he’d be the logical proggy challenger to Obummer.
It would be very difficult to overestimate just how much the general Iraqi public fears and loathes the United States. Years of very negative interaction with gun toting up-armoured Americans have left not one Iraqi family unmolested. I don’t know where the western reporters are finding the occasional Iraqi who claims to fear a U.S. withdrawal but it can’t be far from the IZ, formally “Green Zone”. Nearly all of Iraq’s current rulers carpetbagged to power from abroad on U.S. military coattails so if even they are hesitant I don’t think there is much chance we will be asked to stay.
Address why Gingrich has any presence on the National stage whatsoever while Edwards doesn’t.
You see, this is the problem with constantly condemning Dems with all your fire and brimstone and calling them sellout and crap like that without addressing the systemic problem of why there are double standards.
Because indeed, yes Dems have folded, but Repugs under the same conditions prosper. Is that the fault of the individual Dem, or the ADVANTAGE of the Repugs?
I know the answer.
“his opposition to the war is the reason he won the nomination.”
In a time and a culture of parsing middle-of-the-road shitspeak, it’s good to read a no-bullshit sentence, and that is a good one.
He can’t reneg on this and sustain the occupation of Iraq, unless Maliki wants it, and if Maliki wants to extend SOFA, he’s going to catch hell from a lot Shiites, particularly those supporting Al Sadr.
I don’t know what will happen; no one does, but if Obama doesn’t get us out of Iraq in the time frame he promised, then, my 2c, whatever miniscule chance there was that I’d vote for him again, will be gone. Period. And I think a lot of other americans feel that way. I sure hope so.
I’m sorry for being so cynical. But…
If Edwards had kept it in his pants (and you better believe the other teams knew long before we did) he would NOT be in the logical position to be the progressive challenger to Obama.
No, he’d be in the Obama administration and be part of the problem.
I wish more Americans felt that way. But since the media uncritically passed on the propaganda that we ended combat in Iraq most Americans think the war is over and we won it. I doubt the media will do anything to disturb that feel good inc. view.
I’d consider supporting Warren for a run, but she’s been so agreeable to Obama’s dangling her in front of progressives like a dog yummy, and has said so little about the fact that she was essentially neutered AS the dangling was going on, that I can’t get fired up about her.
At this point, I don’t know who I’d go for, but basically, ABO:
Anybody But Obama.
Lib I appreciate the…backup, but I don’t think that most americans think we’ve won. If they do, and if Obama tries to keep our troops there in spite of Maliki’s (putative) objections, I think they will be dis-abused of the notion that we have “won”.
It mostly hinges on Maliki. Some questions:
Can he remain in power if he signs off on extending the Status of Forces Agreement?
Can he remain in power if he doesn’t extend it?
If he agrees to an extension, what will Al Sadr do?
How would the Sunnis feel about an extension? Will they feel like Obama’s maintaining some kind of leash on the Shiites, to keep them from finally capitalizing on their numerical superiority and the fact that most of the oil is in areas that they control?
I’d expect that the Kurdish offer a few years ago, of “good basing opportunities”, still stands, if Obama wanted to split the difference, and pull out of Iraq proper but keep a large troop presence in the three Kurdish provinces. This might help stabilize that area, in that the presence of lots of American troops could keep any dispute between the Turks and the Kurds, on the back burner. It would also keep the American military close enough to go back into central Iraq to try to deal with any factional strife that threatened to blow up after we pull out to Kurdish bases, as miserable amd futile as that scenario is…and I think that move to Kurdish bases, may well start to happen in the second half of this year.
But I think Iraq is still going to be a powder keg, and there is just nothing we can do to change that, short of a permanent occupation of the country.
I went to two John Edwards political rallies in South Carolina. In the early stages of the primary fights, I supported him. He said some great things in his speeches. He pointed out that Hillary wanted to keep the Health Insurance companies in the healthcare picture, and he said that was a mistake, and that he wanted them completely out of the picture. He promised, at a rally at the Georgetown steel mill union hall, that he would begin the process of closing the prison at Gitmo, his first week in office. The applause that that got, astounded me, coming in red state South Carolina. He, too, was critical of the war, although not as decisively as was Obama.
I thought he’d make a good president, and gave him $20. (I wound up giving Obama $60.)
But when he had that ongoing affair while Elizabeth was dealing with terminal cancer, and tried to cover it up to sustain his hopes for the vice presidential slot, it was a piece of selfish lunacy. If Obama had picked him for the VP spot, and all of his lying and slipping around had then come out, it would have cost us the election…not that winning turned out to be such a great boost for the real changes that we so desperately need, but at the time, I think most of us were desperate for even the chance to mount a salvage operation, and we assumed that Obama would do that. Silly us.
Hey! If the Iraqis don’t want us there claiming our oil they can always move to Palestine.
Shorter question:
How willing (or able!) is Maliki to continue to be a sockpuppet for the U.S.?
He’s on a tightrope not too different from the one that Karzai is walking.
Concur… American occupation and military basing activity has been shapeshifted and sanitized or put in small print on pages few ever see.
Iraqis surely must have a pretty good idea of what having American troops and mercenaries equals. The folk in the American Homeland have been herded with care and very easily are able to still think Americans are the “good guys” in Iraq.
If Iraq kicks out the Americans — WashingtonDC will look really bad trying to stay on — and I for one hope Iraq does kick Americans out.
There is no Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). According to the DOD Dictionary, a status-of-forces agreement (SOFA) is an agreement that defines the legal position of a visiting military force deployed in the territory of a friendly state. It does not deal with overall bilateral relationships. That’s what a treaty is for.
There is no treaty either. The agreements between the US and Iraq regarding US military presence were purposely not treated as a treaty. In the US they were treated as an executive agreement — SOFA was a convenient term — so as to avoid senate advice and consent in accordance with the US Constitution. The Repubs and the Dems were complicit in this subterfuge in the fall of 2008, Obama and Biden being the lead Dems at this time. (The process on the Iraq side was more open.)
Bush didn’t want to mess with the senate, and the Dems were looking forward to being in the position they are presently in, where a new executive agreement is so much easier than going back to the senate for a new treaty. It’s another indicator as if one were needed of the commonality of executive privilege in the two political parties.
There aren’t even any US documents. What we have are translations of Iraqi documents.
On November 26, 2007, President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki co-signed the Declaration of Principles for a Long-Term Relationship of Cooperation and Friendship Between the Republic of Iraq and the United States of America.
There are two agreements:
* a withdrawal of forces agreement: “All the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011.
* a Strategic Framework Agreement: “the Parties shall continue to foster close cooperation concerning defense and security arrangements without prejudice to Iraqi sovereignty over its land, sea, and air territory.”
The U.S. wants to alter the withdrawal agreement.
Recent events have caused a chain reaction.
1. The US has sided with anti-tyrannical insurgents in Egypt and Libya, thus angering Saudi Arabia. The U.S. becomes a bigger threat to Saudi Arabia than Iran than Iran is supposed to be, resulting in a refusal of the Saudi king to meet with secretaries Clinton and Gates on their ME visits.
2. Saudi Arabia sends troops into Bahrain to brutally put down an insurgency and help the (Sunni) Barhaini tyrants. The false story peddled by US PR firm Qorvis Communications is that the insurgency is Iran-directed and Shia-led. SecState Clinton affirms U.S. support for Bahrain and also its right to invite “security forces from allied countries.”
3. In Iraq, politicians — no doubt influenced by Iran — are angry with Saudi Arabia. Politicians from Iraq’s Shia majority, including former prime minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the current PM Nuri al-Maliki, as well as Muqtada al-Sadr, castigated the Saudi intervention. The authorities in Bahrain have since suspended flights to Iraq.
4. SecDef Gates recently visited Saudi Arabia where he did have a meeting with the king, and then went on to Baghdad. Gates repeated his claims that Iran is in back of the Bahrain insurgency, and more. “We already have evidence that the Iranians are trying to exploit the situation in Bahrain,” Mr. Gates said, repeating earlier assertions without providing details. “And we also have evidence that they are talking about what they can do to try and create problems elsewhere as well.”
5. The primary purpose of Gates’s visit to Iraq is to get the Iraqis to cancel the upcoming withdrawal date for U.S.troops but that goal is now more remote because of what’s going with the Arab Spring, particularly in Bahrain. Gates told Iraqis they must decide whether they want a continued US military presence or not. The Obama administration wants to keep 15-20,000 U.S. troops in Iraq beyond the agreed final withdrawal date of Dec. 31, 2011, if the Iraqi government wanted them, but the Iraqis need to decide “pretty quickly” in order for the Pentagon to accommodate the extension.
donbacon — succinct overview and sum up — thank you
The Shia and Sunni conflict being based on religion and religous beliefs has since March 2003 been the political meltdown event in Iraq that cannot be bought off,killed off or simply ignored. WashingtonDC has tried tho.
Bahrain is now into it’s version of Shia vs. Sunni open conflict — it does not look like the Americans are the good guys and anyone who thinks the Saudi regime is up to much good is heavily sedated with American made propaganda as well.
Iran just has to be kept in the cross hairs by WashingtonDC for having the temerity to kick out WashingtonDC in 1979. Of course once the Americans are in Tehran after having shocked and awed Iran back to 1953 guess what kind of regime Tehran will get courtesy of WashingtonDC?
Iran will get another WashingtonDC stringed puppet regime and suddenly any Iranians who are unhappy about that or make political trouble will get the same treatment Bahrain is getting from WashingtonDC.
Americans are not the good guys in Iraq. Americans are not the good guys in Bahrain.
Iraq has been laid to waste by Americans who conveniently now have several super military bases located in Iraq. The USAF controls Iraqs air space. And there is a spanking brand new Fortress American Embassy in Baghdad.
Americans did not plan on leaving Iraq ever. Do not plan on leaving. Ever.
As donbacon notes above clearly the game is to have no set markers or firm end points for American military,political and economic hegemony over Iraq.
Americans are still in Japan and Germany 66 years after WW2 ended.
American Stay On in Iraq is Mission Accomplished for WashingtonDC.
Does not matter if WH and Congress are run by the D’s or R’s.
Will not matter. Barack Obama,Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have showed why.
Whatever resources Gates is offering to Iraq, we need them here. Gates leaves our soldiers’ blood and our tax dollars up to Maliki. It’s Maliki’s call? No. It should be Obama’s call to get out now. Weed out the military. Too many brass are self-promoting leeches. We need peace dividends now.
Sorry, but is FDL on Pacific time?
fdl and some of the sister blogs are on pacific time… fdl news desk is a pacific time zone blog