–However, as an example of the need for election integrity measures and to be vigilant in ensuring that all votes are counted, I don’t see why this shouldn’t be contemplated.–

Right. 200 vote win-margin for Kloppenburg and she was openly declaring victory and asking Prosser to concede. A mere 200 votes and it was game over.

Now, NOW, 7,300 vote loss-margin and there are integrity concerns for Mrs. K, funny how things work isn’t it. A million bucks pissed away for what everyone is saying is a lost cause recount.

I had no trouble finding a story in which Kloppenburg declared victory 2 weeks or so ago. I couldn’t find 1 in which she requested that Prosser concede. Do you have 1?

Do you have a link, that is? To a story in which Kloppenburg requests Prosser concede?

Don’t worry, I’m sure Rafe wjll produce 15,000 cites 2 days after comments are locked on this article.

Kloppenburg is doing the right thing. It’s fire for effect, very unlikely to change the outcome or even change the totals much, but it’s a gesture owed to her supporters.

Also a final, final version statewide can put this contentious election behind us and the theorists to bed.

Errrrr………… you do understand, do you not, that this will not be a hand recount and that the machines will still rule the day?

Under WI law the machine results are sacred writ and are not to be questioned without a court order.

And such a court order will only be granted if you can prove the machines are wrong ahead of time… without having a hand count as evidence.

Neat trick, eh?

Oops, I’m not from Wisconsin. Sorry. . .

I don’t expect Kloppenburg’s request likely to change the result, 7300 is a bit far, more than a hanging chad difference. But I still think Kloppenburg should go forward with this regardless. I’m not from WI and wasn’t aware of the Catch-22 on hand recounts. Surprised, how did that come about?

So is this a total waste of time and money? Maybe not. A statewide recount might detect something incongruous, machine wise, which wouldn’t support a difference as large as 7300 votes. If something is statistically off enough to cast serious doubt, who knows what a court might do with that? Or at least a case could be made for a more hand count friendly regime going forward?

FDL has gone to a lot of expense so you can use blockquotes. You could have also used quotation marks.

Do you actually put effort into obfuscating your own point?

The Koch brothers pay so that several of you can share Rafe’s handle. You must be the least qualified of all of them.

I’ve forgotten, are you a “Friend” ($45), Benefactor ($120/year), or a Gosprey ($1,000/year)?

Wisconsin isn’t broke. Marquis Yachts receives $2M state grant

Life is good when you’re a friend of Scott’s.

“I’m not from WI and wasn’t aware of the Catch-22 on hand recounts. Surprised, how did that come about?”

I’m from Indy myself but have been following election integrity issues for some years. Bradblog.com can get you up to speed on the basics. There’s a lot to cover.

As for how the catch-22 came to be? The short version, applicable all too many places across the nation, is that the people profiting from the machines, both financially and politically, were allowed to write the laws governing the machines… and thus the elections.

Saw that Kloppenburg referred to irregularities in two other counties including Milwaukee.

Hat tip to OldFatGuy! I’m guessing your analysis of the disparity between Milwaukee county and other big counties probably inspired that “statewide” recount.

More Power to Kloppemburg! That first insider investigation of the insides was a fake out anyway.

Very good news!

This is good news. Fight the dirt bags every way possible. A special prosecutor would be cool. No telling what might turn up against Katherine Harris, I mean Kathy Nickolaus.

Kloppenburg seems to have balls. That in itself is unusual for a D.

No hanky panky no foul, then he’ll get they same exact count so why are you opposed to finding out about republican owned black boxes counting ?

TRUTH

From the linked Bradblog article:

It must be noted, however, the counties’ post-election reconciliations do not include verification of actual results to assure the oft-failed, easily-manipulated optical-scan computer tally systems used in the majority of the state accurately tallied the hand-marked paper ballots.

State recount procedures [PDF] allow for a hand count of paper ballots only by court order after a candidate demonstrates that such a hand count was likely to change the results of the election. Short of a hand-count, as election integrity advocates have called for, the ballots will be run through the same optical-scanners used to tally them previously. However, campaigns representatives will be allowed to examine each ballot before it is run through the scanner, allowing for a “virtual hand count” of sorts in the process.

So, while it does seem fairly bleak, it isn’t as bad as it would first appear.

Good for Kloppenburg! She’s an officer of the court, she’s following the law.

A teachable moment for Rethugs everywhere.

In other Wisconsin news, there will be a fifth recall petition against a Republican Senator filed tomorrow.

Dems will file a massive amount of signatures tomorrow to trigger a recall election against a fifth Wisconsin GOP state senator, I’m told.

Graeme Zielinski, the spokesman for the Wisconsin Democratic Party, confirms to me that Democrats will submit approximately 30,000 signatures for the recall of Alberta Darling — nearly 150 percent of the 20,343 required.

This is the fifth time Dems have collected far more signatures than necessary for a recall — all but ensuring that all five recall elections will actually happen.

Hmmmmm

Assuming facts not in evidence, namely that Rs are teachable.

Very good news!

The law’s on her side. And she really had to do this, because the Republicans were trying to bully her into not asking for recount. If she had not asked for a recount, the Republicans would have used this as a precedent which they’d try to bully later candidates into following.

There may have been a time when there were “gentleman’s agreements” about this kind of thing, but those days are long gone.

Furthermore, there’s a real possibility that the recount will find something. The Waukesha count looks fishy, but there may be other areas too.

If she’s got Franken’s recount team that’s great.

Was wondering where Franken has been in all of this.

Politicians are disappointing, even the ‘good’ ones.

This is the best argument for hand marked, hand counted paper ballots counted that night in each precinct.

Any other method leaves to much room for that good old hanky panky.

There is no damn excuse for this sham constitutionally .

Trying to be compassionate, but I take your point, eCAHN@20

Until we correct our voting method to something more secure in the act and in the later canvas, we are going to be flailing around like this. The ballot could be paper or electronic, but better held.

Kloppenburg stated that her campaign would be asking for a hand count of ballots in a number of districts, and will work with the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board (G.A.B.), the state’s top election agency, to determine which areas should be hand counted. State recount procedures allow for a machine recount of paper ballots unless hand examination is ordered by a court.

Good for Kloppenburg! sounds like she listen to “OLDFATGUY” analysis

me thinks a lot of bad things happen in Wisconsin, and a lot of GOP officials know.

I’m confused about the 7,000 votes that the lady from Wausheka ‘found.’ They were all Thuglican votes that she had forgotten to enter? When I first read the story, I supposed that she missed all the votes, but a 7,000 vote gap is inconceivable, so I suppose that despite her Republican ties, she forgot to enter all the votes for her man. This stinks to high heaven.

How ever this turns out, it is going to expose the maggots under the stones.

Give us a break, and zip up your masters’ talking points. t must be past yhour bedtime in Tel Aviv.

It appears to me that the people of WI didn’t think this election was very important since only 33% voted. With all the demonstrations you would think that the Dems should have been able to energise the base.

I wonder how the commenters here will respond when the recall votes fail to produce the correct results.

When enough people believe the political system isn’t worth the effort you can be correct and still lose.

now the repub’s need to find 14k paper ballots, some Kiko office will be very busy. :-)

The recount is a good idea and should be conducted. However, my reading of it is that she did exclude an entire town when she did her Excel summaries. There were some 15,000 actual votes which when added gave a net of 7,500 votes to Prosser. Those votes were not “discovered”, they were always there.

I do wonder sometimes why we are so into conspiracy theories.

She lost. She is within her rights to ask for the recount, but it won’t change the final result. This whole fight is not likely to make Prosser very interested in some upcoming arguements in the upcoming term. I find that amusing. In the meantime, with all the excitement about the recalls, there are going to be recalls filed against Dems as well and some of them are vulnerable. It would be hysterically funny if the end result is an additional pickup by the Repubs.

Ah. A troll. So very… common.

I certainly hope that she and her team have thoroughly reviewed the pros and cons of this decision, because she must know it could end up being used against her and the Democrats for a long time to come.

If the recount reveals some huge scandal, sure, then she is validated. But do you really think that’s going to happen? Since many here already believe the Republicans are underhanded and devious, why wouldn’t you think that in anticipation of a recount they’ve already taken steps to make sure nothing CAN be revealed? If that happens, she will just be seen as wasting money, being a sore loser and demoralizing the Democrats who were sure they’d be able to prove fraud or general voting abnormalities.

You have to choose your battles carefully, and I just don’t think this is the right one. I guess we’ll know for sure in a couple months.

Since many here already believe the Republicans are underhanded and devious

Not only here, but all through Wisconsin and increasingly, the entire US. It’s not as if Wisconsin Republicans are riding a wave of credibility. Finding 14,000 votes doesn’t help. The full recount is necessary for just this reason.

Republicans should support the recount effort for the simple fact that it would increase their credibility.

If you support the democratic process then why do you have a problem with the numbers being double-checked where feasible?

I’m fine with that as long as you’re prepared for the outcome no matter what. Will you fully accept it if in the end she says we couldn’t identify any abnormalities/irregularities? What if the process reveals Democratic-leaning precinct abnormalities?

I would be all for this if she were 700 votes behind instead of 7000. I’m just having a hard time backing it purely as a good government exercise.

Will you fully accept it if in the end she says “we couldn’t identify any abnormalities/irregularities?”

Accept what? Unfortunately what you ask doesn’t relate to the reality of compromised elections.

Between electronic tabulation and invalid chain-of-custody procedures nothing can ever make this particular election “100% sure” nor can we be sure there was no electoral fraud even if no evidence is found.

But in your DailyKos-like fear of being labeled a “conspiracy theorist” you overlook the same important fact that Markos did.

It’s not “their” elections. Not the media, not the political parties, not the oligarchs.

It’s the people who own the elections and who have the right to be sure that their votes are counted.

When a politician supports that then the politician supports the rights of the people to own their elections.

Zapkitty-So if the recount confirms that their votes were counted and the outcome is essentially unchanged, I assume the case is closed. The people were given the right to double-check the results, which you said is the real point of doing a recount.

I only wish Al Gore had been as obstinate in 2000! We might not have gone to war, the surplus would have been kept, rather than going to tax increases for the very wealthy… and Iraq would be a better country today than it is now.

Nor would Afghanistan be the mess it is at the current moment… so much for not harming women!

“The people were given the right to double-check the results, which you said is the real point of doing a recount.“

No, what I stated is that the voters own their elections and have the right to ensure that their votes are counted. That doesn’t stop with just a recount, especially one that’s been deliberately hamstrung by the law.

Your premise again overlooks the fact that Nickolaus has already tossed the voter’s rights in the garbage. This is a salvage and forensic operation.

Kloppenburg also called for a special investigator to look into the voting processes in Waukesha County. She added that, regardless of the outcome, a recount “will shine a necessary and appropriate light on an election that seems suspect.”

Which is all about the voters finding out what has been happening with their elections.

So…

Just what case is it that you want to “close?”

What purpose does fearing an investigation serve?

What is it that you want people to do?

zapkitty-I don’t fear an investigation. I fear investigating for investigation’s sake. As I understand it, Ms. Nickolaus’ elections operation had already been audited. Nothing came of it (and I believe that happened under a Democratic governor). She continued on as she always had.

What I would do if I were a Wisconsin resident is focus on getting more than a 33% turnout for these recall elections and turn around the balance of power in the state. There is no guarantee that the Democrats in those districts where Republicans are being recalled will prevail, and they still have to protect the Democrats that are now also subject to recall. Then maybe, if they have Democratic majorities, they can change the rules guiding voting and vote tabulation. Shining a light on a suspect election is not the same as proving illegality, fraud or some other viable charge that could force a change in how things are done right now. Short of that, it would require new legislation which just isn’t going to happen in a Walker administration.

That is rather lame.

So if a member of one party keeps on doing wrong despite having been informed that their actions are wrong the only solution you can offer is to wait until the other party has control of the government?

Like progressives waited until the Dems had control of the Senate, the House and the Executive?

Unfortunately all you are doing is simply reinforcing the meme, narrative, framing that elections are not to be questioned… and you see fear of a possible backlash as the reinforcement.

Election integrity is not about left or right.

Not about any particular political party.

Election integrity is about right and wrong.

You’re free to question, protest, complain and investigate all you want about any issue. And you’re correct that election integrity is not about left or right, which is why conservatives complain about falsely registered voters and rigged elections as well. But questioning elections in and of itself obviously doesn’t lead to change. If it did, Ms. Nickolaus wouldn’t still be collecting and tabulating votes on her personal computer.