The Democrats have abandoned us; it is time to abandon them; it’s time for a progressive party.

As things are, even when we “win”, we lose. I don’t want to hear about how it means decades of electoral failure; we have already been in the electoral wilderness for 30 years at least.

Got $10 billion to form one from the ground up? One that can be competitive at national, state and Federal levels by this time next year? (Plus another $10 billion to buy a national TV network that can be trusted to give your new party a fair shake?)

If not, and you absolutely refuse to deal with the Dems, try this instead: http://www.publicampaign.org

I’ll vote for any progressive; Dem or otherwise. Otherwise Mickey Mouse gets my vote.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Guess we can’t blame this on the Tea Scrotes this time. Time for MA to lose some Dems quick.

x2.

Strike!!! Why aren’t people in these states on strike? I don’t get it.

Motherfuckers are afraid their corporate donors will turn off the money spigot. That’s what ya get for relying on lobbyists and other scumbags instead of hangin’ with the people. Assholes.

The transition to full fascism in every direction is accelerating at an alarming rate.

People need to put down their papers, stand-up, walk out the damn door and go on strike, now. Also, start boycotting the corporations..don’t buy from big box companies for starters.

When Democrats are trying to break it off in fellow Democrats, we have a hell of a big problem. Further proof of the myth of the two party system. There’s one party, the party of the rich and specil interests. The rest of us are just an inconvenience.

I haven’t heard a peep from NLRB on any of this…I guess I keep missing it.

Yeah, I saw something this morning at the Boston Globe where Patrick was telling union folks to “cool the rhetoric” since it “wasn’t as bad as WI”

The new Dem Party slogan – “We f*ck ya, just not as hard as the other guy does”

I guess this is all ‘they got’:

http://www.nlrb.gov/

Yeah, lots of astroglide.

And yet Mass gov’t enjoys one of the highest (if not the highest) per capita revenue takes among the 50 states. But a cultural quirk here is to rarely look beyond the Commonwealth’s borders to glean anything. Also, even using census figures, useful comparisons are difficult to make between states (even if there were a will to do so). Strong cases become hard to make either way.

Get more revenue! That would be a tough sell given the above. The sales tax? A recent sales tax rollback was soundly defeated at the polls, but that left more of a static situation than opening a door to push the other way. The income tax? It’s flat, and in the Constitution here. Various graduated tax proposals have been sternly rejected at the polls about 6 times in the last few decades.

So a question might arise, what other Mass program is there to trim to keep available the $100 million annually for that healthcare regime as it is today? There may not be any, or they’re higher priorities.

Still I’d be a tad surprised if somehow labor doesn’t ultimately leverage that money. What we’re seeing now may be a diversion — in Mass even stranger things have occurred. So it ain’t over quite yet, and I doubt street parties will be necessary. If I’m wrong about that, then I think taking to the streets will be counterproductive for the long term.

Once people realize that end game is to reduce the USA to third world status and destroy EVERY SINGLE thing that made America great in the last century; to eliminate, eviscerate, rip up and void the SOCIAL CONTRACT … to
reduce Americans to the “life on less than a dollar a day” equivalent AS THEY HAVE DONE WITH SO MUCH OF THE REST OF THE WORLD…

Once you realize that the objective here is to impose serfdom on ANYONE whose bank account does not end in “illions”…

then maybe people will get ANGRY enough to do something about it.

Trotting obediently to the polls every two and four years WILL NOT fix it and IS NOT the answer.

We need to start thinking French. No bullshit. Its the ONLY language left to us at this point.

Either that, or face the facts that America as we knew it is dead and gone and just GTFO. The village no longer suits.

“Deal” with the “Dems”?

THEY have already made THEIR deal, PW, and SD has called them on it, precisely — and in no uncertain terms.

No war but class war.

Period.

(Oh, and it will NOT take “10 billion dollars”, merely blood, sweat, and tears. You tell the rest of us to be “tough”, PW. We are. Are you tough enough to embrace that “cost” to YOUR own skin?)

DW

Yes…isn’t it completely obvious.

Spot on. One can’t represent the actual people while going after their slice of the Citizens United pie. Ever wonder why all of this anti labor legislation is moving this year? It’s because it’s after the first election cycle since the citizens united ruling.

Yes! Scalia/Roberts…and all the rest of them.

Public employees don’t live in a vacuum. Their neighbors, relatives, etc aren’t all public employees and these folks interact with each other on a daily basis. There are more of us than there are of the monied class and many of the great unwashed have woken or are waking up.

No war but class war.

We can win this. Not overnight but we can prevail.

Tough to deal with somebody who has no intention of honoring any deal they make as soon as somebody with more money comes along. I am willing to deal with Democrats. Vichycrats on the other hand, are traitors and once betrayed, it’s foolish to ever again trust a traitor.

Huh. Egnor isn’t here yet telling everyone that this is a canny move…and besides, it’s just health care, what’s the big deal?

Other posters strike the right note – unconventional action is needed. Kitchen sink of the people, so to speak.

We can win this. Not overnight but we can prevail.

Quite. I think we win in the end no matter what provided that humans don’t completely die off. The system is so wildly unsustainable that the rich can’t do this forever.

The real question is what we will win when it all falls apart and how good a shape the institutions we have left are.

Agree completely, SD.

We can … AND we shall.

DW

Nah, I haven’t wondered. Have to be 3 days dead or blind not to see it comin’.

ygm by the by.

I think we win in the end no matter what provided that humans don’t completely die off. The system is so wildly unsustainable that the rich can’t do this forever.

Oh sure. Progressives always win in the end. Otherwise we’d still be living in caves and picking fleas off one another but sometimes there is backsliding and it’s never easy.

I don’t have a problem rebuilding from the ground up. Prolly be the best way to go in the long run.

Thanks. I saw that but I just got in and haven’t replied yet.

We shall have to build new, honorable and humane institutions, one_outer, for the foundations of the current ones have crumbled, being built on the unstable ground of deceit, hypocrisy. and complicity.

The first one must be a genuine rule of law.

Without that, every ediface will fall to the whim of money, just as Adams, Franklin, and Jefferson well understood.

DW

Probably the only sane way to go at this point. Like I said, you’re a fool to trust a traitor once you’ve been betrayed. Somebody willing to do it once is willing to do it repeatedly and it probably gets easier.

Ah, so.

As a liberal who hates the democratic party with the heat of a thousand white hots suns, this sort of thing never amazes me; it just makes my hatred that much more unforgiving.

I just can’t imagine who these douchebags think is going to vote for them? Republicans? All the democrats they’ve pissed off? Who?

With Teddy Kennedy gone and Allen Grayson voted out, there’s really no one left with even the slightest inclination to fight. Oh sure, the house progressive caucus puts together a fine doc in the people’s budget, but they’ve done nothing to publicize it. I guess they feel they can point to it come election time and get us to say thank you with our votes.

Sorry, I’m not buying it. You don’t points for being ineffective, and for not fighting passionately. Chellie Pingree, my rep, doesn’t even mention the PB on her website, and she’s a high-up in the PC.

Raul Grihalva, the PC co-chair (last seen retreating from what felt like dozens of lines in the sand during the health care debate) was on with Amy Goodman recently. This guy couldn’t sell cold water in the Sahara desert.

Regarding, “once people realize,” for that to occur I think it’ll take a few more chapters of economic decline cloaked in phantom numbers for serious changes to come about.

You’re right about the French. It goes back a long way there, no?

The most recent episode, mostly with the students, was comparatively celebratory, and a far cry from the very angry riots during DeGaulle. And those were a far cry from the guillotines. Has France been going downhill all the while?

Motherfuckers sold their souls to corporate donors decades ago. As long as the Regressives held Congress they could pay lip service to the people back home without fear of pissing off the cash cows. They could even vote the way people wanted when there was no chance of their vote counting and upsetting the corporate apple cart. Now all they can do is dance on their crank.

I think a very reason question is this, Margaret.

Who, specifiaclly is a Democrat worthy of our trust.

It must be a short list.

Indeed, I’ve no one to nominate, not even Kucinich …

Who might you put on that list?

It may be but a matter of “opinion”, which is why Obama was said to be unwilling to prosecute, but among friends opinion can be tolerated and even respected.

The “list” should and must be compiled, else ’tis mere confusion passing as wisdom and insight … and frankly, humanity has had more than enough of that.

DW

Yes, SD, and more recently, not only was everything happily taken “off” the “table” when it REALLY mattered, but now, the damned table has been turned into a movable “lunch” which the political class munch upon daily.

DW

We can’t think on a national level anymore. We have to start thinking locally. There’s bound to be somebody in every Congressional district in this country who has a grasp of the right thing to do. We have to get behind that person in our district. We can’t just send money to ActBlue and think we’ve done our part. We have to get on the ground, knock on doors, do all that old fashioned shit. We don’t have the money to compete on teebee. Face to face. Every fuckin’ day. The good people in WI did it. We all can.

I find the comments here similar to the those on HP and the naivete is … LMAO.
just one party folks. the Corporatist party. two branches R and D.
guess what? they ALL take bribes. the whole system is corrupt. if someone takes bribes to push a corporate agenda, do you really think they won’t take it to destroy the middle class?
unFingbelievable. even here people are so naive and gullible.
anyone who is surprised by any Dem move is worse than useless. they are willfully ignorant. and as far as I can see no different than the Obots at HP.
the Ds are no different than the Rs. there are some small differences, but compared to the big ones, insignificant. they ALL take bribes. they all work for the same people, not us. they all will sell out america.
to those who have yet to learn this, I feel incredibly sorry for you. pity. but when you go down in flames for “trusting” those who have repeatedly shown they are liars and thieves, then do you really deserve any better?

Absolutely.

I’m wid ya and doin’ it … long time, jus’ like yer own self.

;~DW

Your momma’s callin’ ya, Sparky

Did you read ANY of the comments, here, ts?

Nevermind.

I’ve been in Mass since 1960. The unions have been the backbone of the Democratic Party all those years – working the telephones, buying me pizza when I worked the phones. When Fire and Police became union everyone supported them – and indeed when I questioned the affordability of the pensions to the legislation in the 70′s my presentation of the numbers was called “unfair”. I never looked at the current police/fire health plan costs and can not comment on the current contract required plans.

Since the 70′s Police and Fire have gotten fatter and fatter pensions – making retiring at age 51 at $100,000 per year (final average achieved via overtime in the last year) for a “lowly” non-management fellow not uncommon (we count military time toward the pension). Worse – in terms of Democratic Party loyalty, the police have been endorsing the GOP for decades. Plus police relatives find their way into gov jobs that regularly show up as “no show” jobs (although this is either calming down or the papers got tired of reporting on it in the last 5 years).

Democrats, myself included, are knee jerk supporters of both unions, and the police and fire folks. But many are coming to the conclusion things have to change as to pensions. But only as to pensions. The number of separate pension plans and health plans and the number of boards to supervise those plans has gotten so large that it is silly.

Others can discuss the fairness of the health co-pay and deductible levels in the police and fire health plans – I have no dog in that race. But police greed, and attitude, as to pensions, has many folks open to hearing about some change.

Fitting that it’s Oilbummer’s pal Deval Patrick who’s instituting these changes.

What can you say? Doesn’t surprise me. The only thing these elites understand is people in streets and general strikes and massive disruption. It must happen or say goodbye.

They retire to FL on those pensions and live like royalty. Pretty bad when pensioners make more than a cop with 20+ years does in annual salary.

Interesting that s/he can find the caps key everywhere but at the beginning of sentences. Oh, and in “America”.

Prolly starts shouting as soon as somebody starts to say something s/he doesn’t wnnna hear.

True -

I visit my grandkids in Florida, and some of the largest boats and homes are owned by retired police from Mass.

My relatives were police in Mass for some small towns – and then became police in NH – not realizing what they were giving up 20 years ago by changing states for a few thousand of annual salary.

Well, it’s not just from MA. A lot of it has to do with the cost of living in the Northeast. Public employees in NYC make a helluva lot more than anybody down here. I don’t have an answer, wish I did, but their arrogance rubs an ol’ southern boy the wrong way.

Nothing like ignoring context, is there?

The only thing that has to change is that the rich fucks in this country get taxed up the wazoo. I mean, c’mon. Pensioners are NOT to blame. More power to these people if they can secure a nice retirement.

Fuck the rich. They are the problem.

Back to work.

No war but class war.

Namaste

yes I did read the comments.
and being shocked that the second branch of the corporatist party skrewed america is only a shocker for the willfully ignorant.

Did the comments square with your generalization … or were you surprised or interested to find a few that were not “ignorant” of larger reality?

You have missed the point – these pensioners ARE the rich now. At least according to the latest popular definition of who is rich.

Agreed.

Double agreed.

Contact the members of the Massachusetts senate:

http://www.malegislature.gov/people/senate

http://www.malegislature.gov/People/House

Robert A. DeLeo (D) Robert.DeLeo@mahouse.gov Room 356 617-722-2500

100K is not rich. That’s monopoly money in some expensive US cities. Rich is, well, you know what rich is. The whole damn Congress. Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein.

For a minority report, here’s a TPM commenter and Massachusetts resident — expect to see Patrick et al use language similar to this:

think the manner in which the story is being reported on progressive blogs is extremely misleading. I am a Mass. resident and virtually EVERYONE here got the story wrong, starting w/ the Boston Globe. The real purpose of the vote was to get towns to buy into a statewide insurance pool, offering the EXACT SAME insurance available to employees of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Under the current system, municipalities needed the approval of each individual union to switch to the state-administered G.I.C – or group insurance commission. This vote merely makes this easier to do and will likely save local cities more than $100 million annually.

This is mainly accomplished through the miracle of economies of scale. For example, Boston pays less per capita to ensure each current employee as well as retirees. Insurance companies are literally fighting to administer the insurance for big cities like Boston, Springfield, Worcester, etc. OTOH, I live in a small city of around 10K, and on a per capita basis, the share is much higher than Boston’s. In some cases, the cost of HC for towns was eating up as much as 40% of the budget. Moreover, because of Prop. 2 1/2, towns are limited by how much they can raise taxes, so one of the only options is to cut jobs (unless you vote to override).

So any coverage which claims that Mass. is ending collective bargaining on HC is simply not accurate. Do you really think that the Commonwealth offers junk insurance to its employees? That’s simply not reality. Moreover, this plan is much fairer because everyone will be buying into the same insurance instead of each union negotiating piecemeal with that particular town.

To be clear, I have supported GIC buy ins for municipal employees, but currently very few towns have taken advantage of it because the unions currently have a de facto heckler’s veto. If all the towns in the state are pooled into a single group insurance program, every taxpayer in the Commonwealth benefits. Moreover, the possibility exists in the future for individuals to potentially buy into the same program which would go a long way toward lowering the cost of HC in Mass. which is among the most expensive in the country.

I just thought it was relevant to add my two cents to the story and hope that Evan McMorris-Santoro follows up on my claims and sees whether or not they are accurate.

sure there are those not ignorant.
but it surprises me there are still any on this site who are so willfully ignorant.
go to bed with corporatists, then don’t be surprised when they steal everything.
my comment never said all were willfully ignorant. nor did it specify. it’s telling those who responded back obviously thought they were my targets when I never specified anyone particular. how telling.
people need to wake up.

Agreed, tambershall. People DO need to wake up.

Then, the next step is to work WITH those who have awakened, as I’m certain you will agree.

Sometimes, this requires a wee bit of tact and even diplomacy, especially if you wish to encourage others to consider certain things …

Generally, it has been my experience, over the numerous decades of my life, that opportunities for understanding are far too rare to squander … as are good will and time.

My sense is that none of us are “wealthy” enough with or “in” ANY of those things to close down discussion before it even has a chance to begin.

“Understanding” is far further along than it was forty …or even four years ago.

I hope that you might find the time and the patience to visit with those here, at FDL, with whom you feel some mutual understanding.

DW

As long as the plebes have their bread and circuses (professional sports? cheap beer?) it will likely be decade or centuries before this turns around.

2 pensioners making $100k each, PLUS their sweet healthcare packages, would easily qualify for Obama’s “rich” title.

Listen, you know what rich means. It means these big jowled white men corporatist banksters who suck the money out of everyone’s wallet. I don’t think because a few firemen make a little more that the whole economic system is going to crumble. That’s just divide and conquer tactics the elite play so we fight each other for the crumbs. You fell for it.

I agree. $100K in gross income in high-cost areas like NYC, greater Boston, much of CA, is the equivalent of about $60K in most states.

News flash from the Bay State. And regarding my #16 post with a reference to prioritizing the budget here. . . I just heard something on the radio. . .

Beacon Hill (i.e., Mass legislature for you folks beyond the pale) has just restored funding recently cut from a program to pay for healthcare for legal aliens. Note, the providers have not been required to distinguish who’s here legally or not, if that matters. But, regardless, they are almost never participants in the Commonwealth’s mandatory healthcare regime.

So there’s a state subsidy, peculiar to Mass, which may actually draw folks here for care. It’s not just for ER treatment, which the Feds require nationwide. A news article a few days ago tagged this subsidy at $50 million, and the restoration may be partial, I don’t know yet.

So this relates to what I mentioned in my earlier post about unique programs in Mass competing against other commitments here for the same revenue dollar. If this news is correct, then that $100 million cut in the lead article, above, see where it went? What do the unions think about that?

The Democrats have now officially recast themselves as the Lemming Party. They and their erstwhile president will follow any Republican meme over the cliff and think they are following the popular will.

Where are the public sector unions??? Anyone heard from them? Trumka? HEEELLLOOOOO anyone home???

Anyone want to bet that the unions and the AFL-CIO will ccontinue to pour $ into dem’s campaigns??? Unions wonder why their numbers are dropping like a rock. THIS IS WHY. At least in Wisconsin the union were out by the tens of thousands.

ALL CAMPAIGN MONEY NEEDS TO GO AWAY FOR ANY DEMOCRAT WHO VOTED OR SUPPORTED THIS BILL. Can you hear us now???

welcome to my world.

for those of you who have wondered at my antipathy towards the dems, please know that this is just the latest outrage by MA state dems. (i didn’t clue in until they blocked implementation of our clean election law).

the democrats have proven they have no spine over and over again.
ONE BIG UNION-GENERAL STRIKE!

It would appear that even Democrats can recognize “broke” if they stare at it long enough.

“The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”

Margaret Thatcher

Has anyone heard what Alan Grayson is up to these days?

Working on a time machine so that he can go back and change his vote on the sham HCR bill from “yes” to “no”. Then he plans to jump forward to Nov, 2010, where he ends up keeping his job in Congress.

But the cops and firefighters don’t comprise even close to the majority of public workers. Everybody who “sees the light” on public workers cites them, but it’s a straw man. When you make apples to apples comparisons with the private sector based on education and experience public workers make slightly less despite higher levels of unionization.

I worked as a substitute teacher for a year in Mass. Certainly not representative of public workers as a whole, but I got paid $10/hr. My mother in law works in the university system doing tech support stuff, and trust me, she is not living large.

He’s teaching. During the period Jan-Mar people sent him over $38K, unsolicited. During the same period Dan Webster raised $30K in solicited funds. Grayson was on WMNF a couple weeks ago and is considering running again next year.

Here in New Jersey over the past 20 years,the wages,benefits and pension costs of public employees have gone through the roof.Gov.Christie,along with the Democratic legislature have passed some laws seeking to control the situation. Believe me,this is not a Republican thing,Democratic Mayors and Council people are just as eager as the Republicans to control the out of control costs.

which is exactly why the democrats need a kick in the rear from the left

We have been trying to force towns and other legal entities into a common pool since at least 1965. The State Insurance area known as Savings Bank Life had me as its actuary for a while and we would try to keep at least the life insurance cost down (SBLI did not do health) by internally pooling with no pool charge.

If this is all that they are doing, it is in effect an offering that they might take up if local aid is conditioned on acceptance – otherwise small town folks really like their glory of being on some benefit board.

The only thing worse that a rich guy getting away with murder is your neighbor doing the same job as yourself and getting a $100 a week more for his efforts.

Folks can be petty and jealous.

But in the case of Police pensions it is more that it has become more obvious how unfair police pensions are – indeed urban police salaries are coming into view – the police union tries to prevent the local media from reporting last years payouts because we have so many police making over $200000 per year.

Hey, look, when you discuss public pensions you’ve got to differentiate between legitimate pensions and the abuses that are going on in many state programs. Here’s the latest example here in CA: The Legislature — completely controlled by Dems, as are all statewide partisan elected offices — is about to pass a bill that will allow the state’s most powerful union, the corrections officers (prison guards), to accumulate unlimited unused vacation days and off-days toward their pension calculation at retirement. Now the punch lines:

- CA is currently struggling to close a $19.4 bil budget deficit. The state legislative analyst’s office calculates that the current value of this unused vacation and days off time is…$600 mil. God knows what the costs going forward will be, esp. since prison guards now accumulate an average of eight weeks a year off, starting with their first year on the job!

- Gov. Brown included this revision to current law in his proposed budget “solution” and has indicated he will sign the bill when it passes. And oh, BTW, the prison guards union gave Brown $2 mil for his election. This is the same Gov. Brown who decreed in his inaugural address that all sectors of state government would have to sacrifice to balance the state budget and that pension abuses such as “spiking” would have be eliminated.

Bah-hahahahaha. You guys kill me (and everyone else)! raise taxes is always the answer…

Look, there are so many public employees in MA who get the BEST benefits while the rest of us are taxed so much that we are barely hanging on.

Whats that you say-give me an example?

Glad you asked my friends. Take Thomas Kinton, Director of the Massachusetts Port Authority. MassPort, as it is commonly known, is a quasi-public agency where all employees are public employees.

Mr. Kinton is leaving after 26 years of ahem, “service.” And his bottom-of-the-barrel lousy public employee union deal? Kinton will get a $246,000 annual pension for life, Cadillac life and health care insurance for him and his spouse into perpetuity and if that isn;t enough for the pig at the proverbial trough, he will get a $455,000 check for unused “sick time.”

Why are we Massholes fed up? Tom Kinton is just one of many poster children for public employee abuse, waste and fraud.

If I had to choose a short message to send to the American people right now concerning our government in general, but this sort of sadistic (and masochistic, though they don’t know it yet) betrayal in particular, but in lieu of length, could have anyone I wanted deliver said message, it would be this message, and this man giving it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzekDivpK3M