The Boeing/NLRB dispute, which concerns a second jet production line Boeing wants to move from unionized factories in Washington state to right-to-work state South Carolina, and a labor board injunction against that, has brought in members of Congress on both sides as well as interest groups. Rand Paul summarized the argument of the far right by hinting at a White House enemies list:
Speaking at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) and several GOP lawmakers — such as Sens. Lamar Alexander (Tenn.), Jim DeMint (S.C.), Lindsey Graham (S.C.) and Rand Paul (Ky.) and Rep. Joe Wilson (S.C.) — took turns criticizing the Obama administration for the complaint.
“This is an issue that may have started in South Carolina, but we want to make sure it never touches another state,” Haley said. “We are demanding that the president respond to what the NLRB has done. This goes against everything we know our American economy to be.” [...]
Other senators pinned the blame on the president for the labor board’s complaint.
“He’s responsible for this board. He’s stocked it with his people,” DeMint said. The South Carolina senator also called the complaint “thuggery” and “something you would expect in a Third World country, not in America.”
Paul suggested the complaint showed that the White House had an “enemies list” consisting of GOP-leaning, right-to-work states.
“Mr. President, do you have an enemies list? Is this decision based on the fact that South Carolina appears to be a Republican state, has two Republican senators? Is this decision based on the fact that South Carolina is a right-to-work state? Are they on your enemies list?” Paul said.
This intimidation and assumption of bad faith ought to be what we come to expect from the far right these days.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid defended the decision by the NLRB in remarks today, and said that Republicans need to let the independent agency do its job.
The acting general counsel of the NLRB is a man who is as nonpartisan and independent as the agency he works for. Last month, he issued a complaint against one of America’s largest companies, Boeing. The complaint alleges that after Boeing workers in some states went on strike, the company retaliated by opening a new production line in a non-union facility. That kind of retaliation, if that’s what happened, is illegal.
That’s just the background. I’m not here to judge the merits of the case. In fact, I’m here to do the exact opposite: to remind the Senate that prejudging the case is not our job. That would overstep long-established boundaries and weaken our system of checks and balances.
I strongly encourage all of them to take a step back. We all know Republicans dislike organized labor. We know they disdain unions because unions demand fairness and equality from the big businesses Republicans so often shield at all costs.
Republicans are mad simply because an independent agency is doing its job. This is deeply concerning to those who don’t want to see government work.
For their part, the NLRB has refused to be intimidated by Republican threats. Acting general counsel Lafe Solomon said in a statement that lawmakers should “respect the legal process, rather than trying to litigate this case in the media and public arena.” An administrative law judge will rule on the case in June, and they will have the knowledge in their hands that Boeing executives actually said out loud that they moved production lines because of strikes in Washington state. The judge can determine whether that violates the federal protection of the right to strike, but if you asked me my opinion, I’d say it’s a slam-dunk case.
But Republicans are doing more than offering their opinion. They’re threatening the livelihoods of the decision-makers in the case. This only differs from the US Attorney scandal in that Republicans don’t hold the White House, so the threats are coming from a different part of the government.
So far, this has been a sequence of charges and counter-charges. We’ll see if the law is allowed to rule, or if the Obama Administration gets cold feet and tells the NLRB to call the whole thing off. The NLRB is an independent agency and wouldn’t necessarily have to listen, but the implication will be clear. A lot of people are watching this one to see where the White House will stand.




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My very first job was typing up trial examiner reports and decisions of the NLRB (in those days they were done on ditto and circulated to the interested parties (mainly law firms). There is a huge archive of these decisions that nobody has touched. I keep encouraging my colleagues to get in their and dig. There’s academic gold in that mine.
Excellent and interesting article, but I have a bone to pick.
Please do not use the term “right to work” state. This is conservative framing at its most insidious. People have the right to work in all 50 states.
Call it a “contract limiting” state. If you want to be more assertive call it an “anti-contract” state. But please don’t say it’s a “right to work” state.
You can’t be serious? Any company has the right (or should have the right) to move or relocate to another state. PERIOD! Please don’t ruin our country by telling us where we can and cannot move our businesses.
This is very scary and I am extremely concerned with NLRB’s overreaching. NLRB and American’s should be thankful that the new Boeing plant is in the USA!
Hmph! I see a trip to New Zealand, Micronesia and the Solomon Islands in Obama’s future. Just about the time the ruling gets close.
This just underscores the Southern problem as far as jobs go (but it’s not limited to that, of course). Remember, first it was the South where the rich took production. Then Mexico and Latin America. Now it’s Asia. It will just go wherever the cheapest bodies that can do the job are.
The South started the race to the bottom in “unskilled” manufacturing. And they’ve been picking it up in the last two decades in more complex industries (think auto plants). There is no solution that doesn’t deal with the economic devastation created in the whole country by the cultural and economic sinkhole that is the former confederacy.
They need to be forced by the rest of us to do the right thing. God knows (as if there was one) that they’re not about to do it themselves. They’re too busy banning sharia law and being scared of teh geys.
Does the law not apply to Boeing when it breaks legally binding contracts to which it has signed?
Also read ‘Latino Immigration in the US South: “Carolatinos” and Public Policy in Charlotte, North Carolina’ (2006) and Latino Immigrants and the Transformation of the U.S. South (2009) which reviews
It does but not for the reasons Boeing executives were apparently openly stating. Contracts have to be binding to both parties or they are pointless. IMO Boeing should be happy to be in the United States because it was the American taxpayer and overwhelmingly the working taxpayer that made Boeing the company it is today. PERIOD!
I liked the Harry Reid quote but I think we should all demand to know what they have done with the real Harry Reid, and demand that he returned to the custody loved ones immediately
Boeing is over budget and years behind on delivering the fuel efficient Dreamliner plane because they outsourced production and hired non union workers.
That is the real Harry Reid. All talk, no substance.
Didn’t Boeing have to redo all the work from one of their suppliers in a non union state because it was not good enough? If Boeing wants o go out of business fine but instead of bailing them out lets take them over.
AirBus must be delighted with this brouhaha.
Spot on. And outsourcing parts overseas has come back to bite them in the ass, hard. They don’t fit right, they don’t function properly and etc. Saving a few pennies on labor has cost them millions in having to redo the work.
It wasn’t domestically produced parts but foreign produced ones, though the former wouldn’t surprise me either.
I’m no labor lawyer, but I don’t think this about a contract.
The National Labor Relations Act holds that certain employees have the right to organize, bargain collectively, or even strike. The NLRA makes it illegal for an employer to retaliate against the employees for exercising these basic rights. So Boeing is not accused of violating a labor contract with one of its unions, it is accused of violating the fundamental labor rights of its employees.
Personal OT: were you ever able to get on the webinair? I couldn’t and I’m wondering if it was just me.
Yes from around the world and the parts didn’t fit. So now the wants to move to states/countries that have low education levels to build a plane. I’m sure glad I don’t fly any more. Just a thought but may be senior management should be let go for the bad ideas instead.
Really? I got on no prob.
They’ll get bonuses instead because sustainability is no longer the goal, quarterly profits and maximizing dividends are.
No Boeing having to delay the Dreamliner airplane because of more shoddy non union and outsourced work is scary to Boeing Shareholders just how much have delays delivering a plane that I believe was suppose to be finished during Bush’s first term have cost Boeing?
Yeah, really. Not from my computer or my son’s. Funny, you said you weren’t going. Well, I’m sure I’ll get an update or something. I did have one thing to contribute and if my point isn’t in the round-up, I’ll just add it to that post.
How’s your afternoon?
I could hear jane and the other speakers but I did not notice the hands up icon on the side until it was almost over. It took me awhile to figure out the bottom screen was where you write questions hopefully Jane saw my questions and just thought I was shy.
I changed my mind. Kelly talked me into attending, though I still don’t own a microphone.
Yep, corp. Amerika
If you registered for it you’d have gotten an email with a link to it. As long as you weren’t going to use a telephone it should have come right up when you clicked on the link in the email.
Things & Margaret
I just rechecked the email. I went on at the wrong time. Der!!!!
Okay, I always was a C student at math. I’m so embarrassed.
Well, just a little.
I read they had problems with both I read they had to replace or was it buyout a supplier details are fuzzy the Dreamliner is like Def Lepard, Boston or Meatloaf’s next album in the 80′s the wait has been so long I have forgotten enough details I’m not sure what to type if I want to look up facts on google.
You can bet it’s cost a whole lot more than the pennies they saved outsourcing the labor. This was supposed to compete with the Airbus but now it never will. For the first time in their histories, Airbus just ran away with the contest and not coincidentally it was the first time Boeing tried to save on labor costs by outsourcing. Doesn’t take a genius to put that together.
It was fun talking to Jane. Shoulda told everybody who I was, like one_outer did. Some I knew but others I had no clue.
They should include time for all regions of America in the next email. Eastern time throws me off too.
Yeah. I got the email. I just signed on too late. I just wanted to see what others were saying, for the most part. I’m pretty sure the world won’t end because I wasn’t there. (Ha! That’s a joke son…I said, I said.)
That’s okay. Looks like webinars will be fairly frequent. Methinks Jane likes ‘em a lot.
To the wingnuts, workers are nothing more than costs that must be cut to the bone. The hell with workers’ rights that just get in the way.
I figured that was you. :)
Was nice to hear your voice. Now I’ll peg it to yer comments. :)
Thank you, dear. I had a meeting at my volunteer gig, wherein I added two days to do computer work for the Volunteer Director. Some of it is research on the internet, which I can do from home. I feel like I’m employed, except without a paycheck.
Hope I’m able to join the next webinair. Would love to hear your voice.
Great insight outsourcing and non union labor just gave Boeing an Own Goal and gave Airbus the win. I wonder when Boeing plans to promise delivery of the Dreamliner now its been years. Surely some countries must want their money back?
Southern accent give me away?
Same here Demi:)
It is nice to hear the voices of other pups, isn’t it?
Cats howling in the background?
Kitty Kat Chorus.
Yep. I’ll bet many of them have already canceled their orders and are going with Airbus. They’re at a huge disadvantage waiting on Boeing.
Next webinar sounds like next week – Greenwald! That’ll be excellent.
Well, that and your name. ;)
Yep!
We’ll do a time conversion for you and demi during the day of the next webinar. *g*
I was able to listen online & see the powerpoint slides but the technology of how everyone else was able to see each other & talk into the webinar in the general discussion is WAY above my tech capabilities.
Definitely be there. Going to price headsets but dunno if I can afford one.
Nope, they’d just been fed so they waz all snoozin’.
“We all know Republicans dislike organized labor. We know they disdain unions because unions demand fairness and equality from the big businesses Republicans so often shield at all costs.”
This is a nice sound bite from Harry but I’m not buying. He attributes to Republicans a disdain for unions that implies that democrats hold an opposing view. I don’t think recent events support this contention, at least not on the part of the national party.
Surely the dems like union money and grassroots organizing efforts but I don’t think they really like unions any more than the republicans. Obama certainly has not been very pro-union and the WH has taken some really nasty shots.
Can’t see anybody, just hear them. All’s ya need is a mic and a headset (feedback if ya use yer speakers) or a unit that fits onto yer ear.
Boeing does not start delivering dreamliners someday well they and their workers will be unemployed they took orders and I assume cash from every country they outsourced production too. The Dreamliner was suppose to replace their current big passenger plane ( I stopped keeping track after the 747 ). Imagine McDonalds without hamburgers trying to limp along selling fries.
Boeing has American military contracts and smaller planes to produce but the big passenger planes are their hamburger.
Soeaking of cats, I’m going to clear coat Neko in acrylic. If I was allergic to cat hair, I’d be experiencing anaphylaxis right now.
The time difference across a 3 time zone nation makes it challenge. 4:00 pm on the west coast isn’t an easy deal for a lot of folks. But, as I said I can add my notes later. Well, anyone can.
I think Boeing’s books must be crooked they can’t keep running production lines with their old planes against Airbuses newest plane forever they must be losing customers.
Nobody “saw” each other. FDL chose a “mask” method for this Citrix/GoToMeeting webinar, which I am assuming was to preserve privacy, just like on the blog here.
The only thing that’s different between the “hearing” and the “talking” is if you have a PC microphone. So the rest was guessing. Heh.
Regular headsets are cheap. You can use earbugs for ipods if’n ya want to.
Really? My cat hates to be soaked.
Dreamliner was supposed to compete with the A380, not just replace the aging 747 fleet. That’s impossible now. The world went by them and moved on while they were focusing on busting unions.
Thanks:)
Emptywheel is upstairs!
Killing Democracy with Bad Intelligence
That’s not bad. Maybe my friend here in SA will get me one for my birthday.
But, but, but. Because I had that meeting earlier, I did my hair and a facial and everything. So, it would have thrown everyone a curve ball anyway, if we did have “visuals”. I could have hidden the cheetos underneath the desk.
Kelly!
LMAO! Neko’s gonna hate acrylic but I’m just being silly.
So how did Jane know who had their hands raised if she couldn’t see them? I have a headset for my telephone but it wouldn’t fit into any of the ports, and I’m guessing the mouthpiece is not a mike.
What is a PC microphone?
Tsk, tsk.
One of the things I love (and can relate) to about You!
Yeah, 4pm CA time could be difficult for working folks. Mayhaps we should bring that up to Jane.
True and at this rate Airbus will have a new plane to replace the A380 with the latest tech by the time Boeing is ready to launch the Dreamliner. I am thinking Carbon fiber frame and maybe the whole body plus a catapult system maybe to help launch the plane at takeoff and save fuel. Take off eats a bunch of fuel. Boeing mean while will be left with a plane that at this rate will be considered second rate and surpassed in every area it was suppose to compete in fuel efficiency was suppose to be its big selling point.
Read it and weep, (if you hold stock in Boeing)
All because they were too busy fighting off those greedy workers. Idiots.
There was a little control icon for hand raising. That’s a fault of Citrix/GoToMeeting for not making it prominent.
If you’re attending the next one, I’ll ping yer email with exactly where that control is.
——-
Microphones:
There are some embedded with webcams, and others embedded with head-seats, and other stand alone microphones that plug into your PC.
For VoIP sessions like the webinar, the one that SD linked to above @ 57 is reasonably priced.
I think I’m much to old to ride on a plane that catapults on the takeoff.
If you already have a mic a set without a mic would be even cheaper. Radio Shack.
I saw a 1-earpiece with mic at bestbuy for $25.
Could do. What if the economy gets fixed and everyone has jobs. Could have an affect on the blogs. Except for those who spend all day at work online. (Not naming any names. Nope.)
Its great that the Lake can discuss this issue and turn this into a outsourcing and non union labor costs Boeing money thread because we have experts that apparently the Dems and GOP congressional staffers can’t match.
The points we made here where not even addressed by the Dems and GOP.
I always wanted to ride in an F-4 Phantom catapulted from a carrier.
Guilty.
Cat shots are fun! But I can’t imagine a system robust enough to hurl a full size airliner into the air.
Thats the non union company I’m sure of it that screwed Boeing, well one of them at least.
I have one for my xbox but it doesn’t fit my computer.
G force might be a problem but doesn’t the navy aircraft carriers do something like that to help launch planes?
Catching the wire is fun too.
Yes. As I said cat shots are fun. See my comment @ 80
No, sweetie. Not you. You only poke in, from time to time. I seen it.
Any way to get a USB converter or a converter that converts whatever plug you’ve got to a radio/computer jack?
& SD,
I gave up roller coasters when I was in my 20s as too scary, so you can see where I’m at. Rock climbing I was fine until a much later age, but, although that’s scary for some, not for me. You go at your own pace, rely on your own skills, and not on a hunk of metal and some machinery.
I’ll bet.
I have to admit something to my lefty peaceful hippy friends. I used to be SO hooked on watching JAG. Okay? Still love me?
Here’s a handy chart where you can see the orders being canceled after 2009:
Morons.
Edit: Okay I can’t make the formatting work. It’s at the wiki link though
Me lurvvvvvvs me some roller coaster.
No, that jack is very specific for the xbox.
It’s telebision.
That figures. Micro$oft.
This is early 2011 and they are still arguing with their union about production being moved?
I am sure this won’t be the last compensation claim the GOP will try and spin this as the Unions fault when its non union and outsourcing that is causing the delays.
Wisconsin under Walker can become the next Boeing.
Yep.
LMAO! I don’t mind. That show was more fictional than A Christmas Without Santa Claus.
You can’t be serious. Companies have free rein to enter into commitments, but not free rein to get out of them when it’s their turn to pay the piper. The one-sided, company is always right argument doesn’t much respect the rule of law or the rights of labor and the communities and governments that entered into binding arrangements with companies, which those companies voluntarily entered into, but which these days they feel they have the right to renege on whenever it’s convenient.
Executives also run their businesses with the expectation and annually verified public commitment, made under oath, that they “comply the the law in every jurisdiction in which they do business” – including its labor laws and the mandatory procedures through which those are administered. A company with the size and power of Boeing knows exactly what the rules of the game are; they just feel they can break them.
The economics are also suspect. Boeing gets a helluva lot of public subsidies. Any dime it saves by taking their shop to a right to fire state won’t save the government or Boeing’s shareholders a dime. It will go right to management’s pockets. “Competitiveness” is another word for excessive compensation for the few, not responsible stewardship of a company, its assets and people.
I wonder at the fuel savings and can a big plane handle the stress carbon fiber I believe doesn’t get metal fatigue.
The f-14′s I always thought were cool the P-51 Mustangs however just looked like they would be fun to take into a bunch of tight turns.
Both parties like unions as much as they like whistleblowers. They want to have exclusive control over the issues, priorities and rules of the game. Sharing power is so feminine and oh so 20th century.
You need a g-suit to fly those things nowadays, especially with the clipped wings. It was the closest thing to a jet in WWII that wasn’t one. Armies used them for years for stuff they know fly Swiss turboprops for.
Maybe Carbon Fiber frame and body I don’t think metal can handle it? Maybe we just make smaller planes? Cat shots through me…I did not want to ask why you were drinking with your cat.
How is the take off though is it maybe to intense for regular people to take flying commercial?
Think again. When they worked properly, they were among some of the best fighters of their times but they were very labor intensive and had a whole lot of really stupid design features. Plus carbon composites rot in the presence of fuel and hydraulic fluid so leaks were rough on the airframes. Landing gears, wing roots, the box beam etc were not composite but were titanium or monel steel.
Dunno, that would be more up Margaret’s alley. I’m destroyers and small arms. Followed the Executive Officer of HOPEWELL to Viet Nam. What a great ship HOPEWELL was.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-h/dd681.htm
To a Republican and many Democrats, labor’s fundamental rights is a contradiction in terms. The government subsidized “free” market has only one resource that counts, managers. Labor, assets, sources of capital, sponsoring governments and local communities are somehow defined out of the equation by those seeking to maximize executive power and compensation.
My heart bleeds peanut butter for Boeing.
Heck no! Maybe for people scared to fly anyway. It’s a blast. The G forces build and build until you leave the catapult and then suddenly vanish when you’re off the end of the deck. The F-14 was about 40% composite and the FA-18 is about 70%. No airframe can be 100% composite construction. There will always be an underlying frame to attach the carbon structures to.
You’ve been reading Dilbert haven’t you (“Weasel Rap” was one of my all-time favorites)?
Part of the Southern economic strategy, right to fire laws are a costly legal subsidy used to entice businesses. They externalize costs of those companies onto individuals, to local and state governments who pay for the schools and roads and airports and utilities that make locating there so attractive to companies..
The exchange of value, a few jobs and local spending, is becoming increasingly less of a good deal for the myriad of locales trying to use the same gambit. Funny how labor’s interest is never represented at the legislative tables that come up with those “freebies” offered to private corporations.
Know some of them by heart.
Can we build a big passenger plane with a catapult do you think? This is way out of my area of expertise.
Exactly. “Right to work” laws are a GOP-corporate euphemism for right to fire; those laws gut labor’s rights down to like it or lump it. Ask a catfish gutter at a fish farm.
I thought so. ;-) Had a QA manager with a wicked sense of humor. He’d hand out the Dilbert of the day at the top of the morning. Then we’d head out to one of those dreary, fruitless meetings … Ah, those were the days!
They are about as much of a babe in the woods as BP or GM. They don’t bring a knife to a gun fight, they bring a cannon.
Ok they looked cool to me as a kid.
Great thread will check later but bye:)
Yeppers. { cue theme music from the “Good, Bad and the Ugly” } I seen thar kind.
Rand Paul and his allegations of a Nixon style enemies list is just junior engaging in a little petty projection. South Carolina (and Alabama and most other Southern states) has the right to piss on its labor force as much as it wants; no one else has to follow suit or to enable such self-destructive strategies to bear fruit for the few at the expense of the many.
Aw man, I forgot all about the webinar. Forgot to even sign up. Rats. Any decisions made?
In response to greg23–we’re talking about a violation of THE LAW – not some sort of administrative regulatory overreach.
You don’t like the law, fine. But it’s the law now, and the company has to comply, and if it violates the law instead, it is subject to the consequences. Period.
Don’t whine about stuff you know nothing about.
Jon Walker is upstairs!
Does New Polling on Afghanistan Reveal Opportunities for Anti-War Republicans?
Uh-oh – is everybody gone? Southern Dragon, you here? I have a question about last Sunday’s Caturday….
No decisions made. Just talked about things to work on for the upcoming election. Lots of stuff coming.
You rangggggggg?
Fuckin’ Newt talks about telling the truth in his announcement to run. Shithead wouldn’t know the truth if it put a foot up his ass.
Why does anyone take the paul nazis seriously?
When a guy has that many nazis and kkk members backing him he should be treated like the dumb clowns they are
But he has that crazy ass youtube cult (ron/rand paul’12 awakening!!11!)
No, the reason they spread the production to other countries was so that Boeing would have an advantage in selling the 787 to those countrie’s airlines. Actually not a bad strategy. However, when you do that you lose quite a bit of control of quality of build, as Boeing has learned. If the ALJ finds in favor of Boeing’s unions and it is subsequently upheld in court it will ultimately mean the death of organized labor and the United States as a industrial player in the world. The “outsourcing” that the Left wails about will pale in comaprison to the flight of high quality jobs still remaining.
As the old saying goes, “Be careful of what you wish for. You may get it”
Definition of “Right to Work”:
Right to work for lower wages so that the employee stays barely above the poverty level.
We are the largest consumer market in the world. given our unemployment numbers which neither party is doing anything about tariffs are only a matter of time.
Time to stop letting South Carolina keep making this country biggest fuckups.
Like…. ummm… slavery! Like the Civil War. Like the first state to fire artillery rounds at American troops at Ft Sumter.
Yeah… I’m going there. They don’t give two shits about anything American. They’d rather not be flying American flags. They don’t want to be Americans.
Commercial aviation would not exist without public subsidy. Business Week 1992.
“The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers.” – Warren Buffett.
South Carolina, Mississippi & Alabama, as manufacturing centers for the US market, are projected to be competitive with China by 2015.
Union built products does not mean a high quality product.
PLUS, you don’t think there’s corruption in the labor unions??? There is.
I work for an American manufacturer that is not unionized and we design, manufacture and sell the highest quality products. We have good pay, excellent benefits and great training programs. Guess what, we have pride in the product we build.