Well, I really think that our Atrios described Galtian overlords have a great idea for what to do with excess labor: imprison them in our brand new for profit prisons, unless tax revenues dry up. Oh, we wouldn’t want stop the needless drug war, either. I mean, its not like we want the best educated people, with decently paid and respected teachers, with mandatory federal class sizes that never exceed 20 per class. That would be weird. No, we’ll just continue, when you think about it, preparing certain classes of kids (nudge nudge wink wink if you can figure out which ones…)for the prison industrial complex. We (Galtian overlords) feed on the tasty frothy milk of needless and stupid human misery….

…involving fellow Americans! Go USA!

The overcrowding severely restricted rehabilitation and treatment options, and as a result California has the highest incidence of recidivism in the nation.

How will kicking them out without rehab and treatment help?

One thing missed in the out-of-state commentary is just how powerful the correctional guards union is in CA. There will be no reform done as long as the CCPOA plays kingmaker, every politico grovels at their feet and their $$$ that can make or break any campaign. I for one am waiting for the unholy alliance of the prison guards union and CCA. In the mean time, CA will help AZ’s revenue stream by shipping prisoners there. It’s already going on.

All non-violent drug offenders should be released for starters. Wonder how Correction Corp’s stock is doing today?

from NBC:

The order doesn’t mean the inmates are let free. It does mean that the state must find another place for them, either in county jails or in out-of-state private prisons.

For the governor, this may be the break he needs to help reduce the prison system’s massive budget. It also puts some teeth behind a bill he signed last month that shifts low risk state prison inmates to county jails.

The problem with the legislation is that there is no money to pay for the program. By requiring a quarter of the state’s inmate population to be sent elsewhere, the governor may be able to save on the prison’s budget — enough to pay for the shift of tens of thousands of inmates to county jails. He may also be able to send others to out of state prisons that cost less. Such a move has been opposed by the powerful CCPOA, the prison guards union.

The CCPOA was behind the California 3 strikes law which caused much of the overcrowding, and it contributed $2 million to Jerry Brown’s recent successful campaign for governor.

Were you a scrum half, where?

One problem that DD doesn’t note is the incredibly tight parole rules in CA. All convicts in CA are placed on parole after they have completed their sentences and they tend to be sent back in for minor parole violations. This practice both enlarges the number of inmates (overcrowding) and also enlarges the number of inmates who spend their time getting no help whatsoever (short-term parole violators). The end result is that all of the inmates have less opportunities for rehab etc.

Even if we agree to it, mandatory sentences won’t allow it. Possession with intent to distribute of five grams of crack is subject to a mandatory sentence of five years without parole.

If a gun is available for use or is being carried during a drug transaction even if it is not used a mandatory five-year sentence must be added consecutively to a conviction for the drug offense.

Great, Freeing 30,000 prisoners from jail before their sentence is up. I just hope not to many innocent people die so Justice Kennedy can sleep at night. The state of California has enough money to pay for Public sector union workers but not enough to run prisons and maintain law and order. Which of these is a core function of government. Law and Order or paying obscenely large wages to public workers.

CCPOA actually came out for an independent sentencing commission last year. The lawmakers, scared by the prospect of “soft on crime” ads, nixed it.

In the interest of snark, we should note that

1) Prisons are the best training grounds for a career as a criminal

2) They also are the best recruiting / networking grounds for criminal organizations seeking new employment.

3) Time served is a bonus on the resume of any aspiring young criminal.

4) In today’s tight economy, crime is one of the growth areas for employment.

5) With all of the torture, war crimes, financial fraud, etc., so-called “respectable” elements of society are criminal anyway.

Accordingly, we should favor even greater imprisonment in order to boost activity within this booming growth field – crime!

I could have written a book on the insane parole policies of this state. In fact, I’ve written plenty about it before. 2/3 of all recidivism can be attributed to technical parole violations (i.e. missing a scheduled meeting).

What is going on around here? It seems to me that every time there is a post drawing attention to some sort of public service problem that runs short of resources some commenter that I’ve never heard of pops up to say something bad about unions. I even checked rugger9 out and his history looks legit.

So what’s with the union bashing? Then again, I never find fault with working people demanding more money. That’s a game for people that already have enough money.

Thanks, David. Excellent information.

If you are reading here and you have enough money to find fault with working people demanding more money, you really should pony up for a membership … this place doesn’t run on hot air, you know.

You are correct, in particular, about the sentencing guidelines for the possession of crack… which is frankly, a racist *crock* of crap.

“Under current law, possession of five grams or more of crack cocaine triggers a mandatory minimum sentence of five years in prison; simple possession of any quantity of any other controlled substance (except flunitrazepan) by a first-time offender – including powder cocaine – is a misdemeanor offense punishable by a maximum of one year in prison.”

It’s mainly minorities and the poor who use crack. It’s mainly the middle and upper class whites who use cocaine. Funny how the PTB want to throw the book at crack users, but give cocaine users a big fat pass.

Ties into the notion that a lot of the sentencing guidelines lead to a big old prison industry complex doing slave labor for the wealthy and entitled.

I agree with your comment about sentence disparity, but it’s mainly minorities and the poor and the middle and upper class whites who don’t use cocaine at all and they’re not the criminals.

Cal, among other clubs, including the thoroughly obscure Carl Vinson Vermin. I also played fly half, fullback, loose forward and hooker.

How many of the inmates are actually mentally ill. The mentally ill have no place to go but prison or the streets. How many are drug users or dealers that really needed rehab. There is no rehab and they will end up on the streets. Thousands of people will be released from an overly punitive penal system. But they will be released with no resources, meds, or jobs in a culture that is sinking fast. These circumstances are the result of unfettered capitalism and greed. Maybe they could live in all the empty foreclosed homes. You know, the ones that the banks aren’t taking care of in the poorer neighborhoods. The neighborhoods that used to be called lower middle class.

I personally have known – over the years – quite a few middle/upper middle class whites who use cocaine quite regularly. It’s been rife in the legal profession for years, esp amongst younger attorneys who use it as a means to stay awake & work extra-long hours.

Believe me, such people use *plenty* of drugs, but if they happen to be busted, you won’t be hearing or reading about it.

I’m very cynical. I’ve worked in the legal system all my life, and I’ve watched the rich & the powerful – who are usually white – get away with a lot of stuff that’s quite illegal. but everyone is happy to turn their heads and look the other way bc they’re rich and, more importantly, white.

Get a clue. I’ve also had the unhappy experience of being a juror on a crim trial over 5.5 grams of rock crack. It was such a bloody effen joke. A HUGE waste of YOUR tax dollars btw. The amount of money spent on *busting* some poor black homeless dude (who perhaps benefited from being “inside”) and putting him behind bars was almost more than I could stand.

As I said: I’ve SEEN plenty with my own two eyes. The system is corrupt and a joke, and make “excuses” about how many people don’t break the law is BOGUS. Many people do break the law constantly and constantly get away with it, and when they’re busted, they either get some kind of “deal,” and/or as you can see, the sentencing laws are very very skewed and unfair.

Go to your local public library and observe the many homeless folks there, many of whom are mentally ill and have nowhere else to go.

Public library staff are now being trained by social workers on how to deal with and handle the mentally ill/unstable bc it’s the sad fact of reality that our society has *abandoned* the mentally ill to the streets to fend for themselves. And then conservatives can feel self-righteously *indignant* that they don’t have a job. As IF…

SF Public Library has a social worker on its staff to assist the homeless:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-01-11/bay-area/17823909_1_homeless-population-homeless-outreach-team-homeless-people

This is growing trend.

Interesting point, parole violations are a favorite round-up-the-usual-suspects tactic when something happens. It is also clear that there is a reason for the roundups, the police get hits for other activity. Noting Mr. Dayen’s response at #11, while the union may have “officially” endorsed the sentencing commission, I have no doubt they would ensure full employment, as it were. Note how they leveraged Ahnold on their current contract, even before the latest news on the Gropenfuhrer [h/t Doonesbury].

We have our screeching teabaggers in CA too.

CA Prop 66, the Three Strikes Law, is a voter mandate that cannot be overturn or changed by the CA Legislature. That’s how these work (you probably know this DDay, but others reading here may not). The only way to “overturn” a Proposition is by another proposition.

However, the independent sentencing commission that you reference, above @11, may be one way to deal with the ridiculousness that is the result of Prop 66.

Three Strikes is stupidity incarnate in that it leads to huge incarceration rates, often for minor crimes that make no sense. CA conservative voters in 2004 were all about punitive measures and victoriously passed the Three Strikes Law… but it’s an unfunded mandate.

Now rightwingers wish to whine & cry about the alleged “high salaries” of public servants, such as teachers, all the while sending an endless stream of people to jail for no really good reason. And the kicker is that rightwingers then also whine about CCPOA having the nerve to donate to Brown’s campaign.

I’m so tired of the cynical b.s. from the right in CA. THEY champed at the bit to toss an endless stream of lower class people into jail, but THEY don’t *want to pay for it.* CA conservatives are the biggest crybabies on record for whining about “unfair” taxes. Yet someone making almost $1million pays in the same tax bracket as someone making $50k.

Conservatives want tons of CA citizens jailed mainly for the crime of being poor, and then when – surprise suprise – the jails get overcrowded, CA conservatives want the poor and middle class to *pay more* to cover the high costs of incarceration – by furloughs and other pay cuts for public servants & teachers, etc.

If CA conservatives are d*mned concerned about jailing a huge proportion of CA citizens, then how ’bout CA conservatives pony up the money to PAY for it???? Yeah: dead silence.

All talk, no walk. The usual upper class welfare applies: don’t tax ME, but figure out some way to pay for everything offa the backs of the poor and the middle class.

And take a look at the medical professions. I was married to a doc for twenty years. He was a drug addict. But the docs like to call it “self medicating”. Most of the doctors I knew used drugs. Lots of drugs. His brother, who is a board certified internist and e.r. doc, lost his license a few years ago. He must have pissed off someone more powerful than himself.

Using drugs when you are a minority or a poor person condemns you to time in jail. Sort of like driving while black.

For the mentally ill on the streets you can thank “St” Ronnie. His edict as governor changed the whole mental health focus from care and improvement to “your on your own”. Add to that the starving of resources by every GOP governor, aided and abetted by the GOP legislators [courtesy of Prop 13 constraints] regardless of which party was holding the governor’s seat, and you have the outcome [for mental health, anyway] predicted by Grover Norquist.

In addition, we had the Bushies deliberately under-reporting the PTSD effects of the wars overseas, the systematic purging [after cursory review] of the VA rolls to ensure only the so-called “truly needy” were offered services, which had to be done farther away because of VA office closures. Walter Reed was a symptom of the contempt the Bush Administration had for the men and women in harm’s way. The apologists still do hold that contempt, and was anyone at Halliburton or KBR ever held accountable for the electrocuting showers in Iraq? Not that I’ve seen. So, in addition to the indigenous MH population, we added war victims as well with no safety net nor any official help because that would cut into Bushco’s profits.

FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR… the usual rightwing mantra.

Most of the prisoners being let of jail should have never been sent to jail in the first place. They are letting out those who are doing time for petty crime and no violence involved. If Prop 66 hadn’t been voted in by CA conservative voters as an unfunded mandate, most of these people would have never been jailed in the first place.

Yep. Exactly. The upper crust usually only get “busted” if they happen to piss off the wrong person. Otherwise, it’s a free pass, esp if you happen to be white.

If you’re poor or a minority: look out!

Shocking! The SCOTUS BARELY does something resembling righteous application of the law!

Thanks for the info. I know all that too well, but some others reading this blog may not.

When Sainted Ronnie kicked the mentally ill out of the hospitals it resulted in the son of family friends being murdured by a mentally ill person… this happened within about 2 weeks of being kicked out of an institution.

My rightwing family *worships & venerates* Zombie Reagan. They didn’t like it at all when I pointed out that the son wouldn’t have been murdered if Reagan hadn’t kicked the mentally ill out of institutions. I was told resoundingly to STFU and that I “didn’t know” what I was talking about.

Conservatives’ ability to remain firmly in denial about basic reality should never be underestimated.

A huge amount of the homeless *used to be* Viet Nam Vets. Now their ranks are being swelled with Gulf War/Iraq/Afghanistan War vets… yeah yeah: “support the troops”! Another crock of conservative sh*t. Support the troops, my @ss…. certainly not to be supported once they get home and are injured and/or have PTSD. Then it’s all: get offa yer lazy butts and get a job, slacker! Seen that all the time, too.

Why is the incarceration rate in the US so high in the first place? Does the vaunted American culture breed massive criminality or do other 1st World countries just have massively less effective justice systems?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Incarceration_Rates_Worldwide_ZP.svg/487px-Incarceration_Rates_Worldwide_ZP.svg.png

Any American not shamed by the statistics into seeking a real understanding of why the US locks so many of its citizens up in ghastly cages cannot be considered a patriot. Look at the racial demographics and it is clear this is just the 21st century reincarnation of the profitable slave system.

And if marijuana hadn’t been semi-legalized, the jails would be even more full; just watch this -state must find another place for them, either in county jails or in out-of-state private prisons.- happen.

And ‘OXI’ hasn’t even hit the U.S. yet.

And as more and more people become desperate in trying to survive,’crime’ will be going up.

The independent sentencing commission would merely be a data-gathering, time-stalling BS committee with no power.

Discussion of whether the commission will or won’t be granted sentencing authority is premature — and should be postponed until after such time as we have sufficient data to analyze the existing state and country populations and infrastructure, particularly as it relates to the promising concepts of specialized courts (i.e., substance abuse and mental health) and determinate versus indeterminate sentencing.

Here’s a list of more petty crimes with no violence involved:
■Bribery
■Computer Crime
■Embezzlement
■False Statements
■Fraud
■Obstruction of Justice
■Perjury
■Tax Crimes

Are you consistant when it comes to White Collar Crime?

Facts

Repealing the death penalty will save a billion dollars over the next five years

California spends more on incarceration than higher education

john in sac,

You know those little kids are just future criminals. We should go ahead and put their little butts in jail before they commit crimes. geez.

Exactly, like the UC Davis students who were spied on, and the Sac State kids who protested the tuition hikes, by actually peaceably assembling to seek redress of their grievances

I mean, how un’merican is that? /s

because of three strikes, California has a much older prison population relative to the national average, which is why their prison health care costs so much.

California: Males comprise 93% of the inmate population and females are 7%. 39% are Hispanic, 29% are black, and 26% are white. We have nearly 24,000 people serving life sentences while 680 are on death row. The average age is 37.
http://www.california-criminal-law.com/prisons/index.html

I’m consistent, but unfortunately the Courts and the legal system are not. Not my fault, however.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/envision/prisons/

Yes, and this is good 30 min documentary about this, and about how much it is costing CA citizens to support this aging prison population, which will continue to get more expensive over time.

Perhaps that’s true. But given that Three Strikes was passed by voter proposition, there are few means to redress or change it, short of another proposition. There are no means available for the Legislature or the Courts to address, change or improve it. And propositions are very costly to arrange and most don’t pass.

At least this was a step to redressing the situation in CA.

They don’t fuck with people who can afford a lawyer.

Right, and the upshot of this is that there’s less health care across the board for those who might need it, leading to shortages, leading to preventable deaths, a form of cruel and unusual punishment. In a way, three strikes created the conditions that led to the SCOTUS ruling today.

Ted Koppel did a great documentary on California prisons for Discovery several years ago.

http://www.calitics.com/diary/4004/

Reply to onitgoes @ 27, and others

How is it that repugs got 3 strikes passed when 2/3′s of registered voters are Dem’s?
I think a lot of non-thinking Dems added to the passage of Prop 13

Waynec in CA

California is a law and order state. Huge suburbs and sprawl and those voters generally vote on the tough on crime end of the spectrum. This hasn’t really changed, the state voted down Prop 5, which would have added more drug treatment for nonviolent offenders, just in 2008.

I don’t think that the average age gets at the problem. California has a prison population which is split between quite young offenders and increasingly elderly offenders because of the determinate sentencing, 3 strikes etc. It makes for a population that needs huge amounts of medical care and rehabilitation but can’t afford any of it.

Also could you provide a link to the sentencing commission description you posted earlier? It had more teeth than that as I recall although it would have had to be submitted to the legislature in the end.

The quote is from the CCPOA

http://www.ccpoa.org/issues/ccpoa_on_prison_reform

Incredible! I just read 49 comments, most of which seem to feel sorry for the criminals, or ignore the fact that they are criminals, or think they should not be criminals. Where is the outrage at the Supreme Court for this “legislation from the bench”? Wake up people!

I Know! These people must’iv just never read their Bible. I believe its John 2:23

And Jesus spoke unto them saying, “Thy God is a vengful God. Let no mercy for the weak or poor enter your hearts or thy shall bring the wrath of the Lord as swiftly as the screams from the mouths of heathen children burning in hellfire. Blessed are the Rich (Money Changers), for they whip the sloth from the lowly masses. If the non-chosen offend my children, strike off their arms so they may not steal from you. Bind their legs so they may not run to evil and put their children to work in the black mines so that their evil seed may be turned to His glory.

Let not the devil worshipers interrupt the steady flow of profits. Nor have pity on any who does not bath in the light of thy Lords Brilliance. Thy Lord judges as do his children so worry not that the poor are innocent. It is for thy Lord to chose his own from amongst the rabble.”

And whats with having the Supreme Court rule on the Constitution anyway? The Constitution clearly states that it is up to the President to interpret the laws that Congress makes. Its just basic civics people.

Of course you could argue that the simple fix would be to raise taxes to build larger facilities, but the most economic solution is to release the prisoners to Afghanistan. The Supreme Court doesn’t have jurisdiction in an active almost-war zone. WAR POWERS BABY!!! KBR has a cost effective solution to California’s budget woes but does anybody listen? For lest than the cost of housing a prisoner for 20 years KBR will charter special flights to remote regions in Afghanistan. What could be easier than that?

You probably don’t mean it that way, but that’s an incredibly superficial and simplistic way of looking at this