The timeline goes like this. The House passed a resolution forcing the President to write a term paper justifying the military operation in Libya. The Administration didn’t seem too keen about actually getting that done. John Boehner said, weeks after asserting that the Administration had passed the war powers test, that they would be in violation of the War Powers Act by the weekend, at the 90-day mark of the operation (the War Powers Act has a 60-day deadline for Congressional authorization, so why 90 days has anything to do with it is unclear). At the same time, 10 members of Congress sued the Administration for breaching the Constitution by going to war unilaterally without the consent of Congress.
Then, all of a sudden, the President sent a letter to Congress, as well as a 30-page report and a legal analysis, justifying the US role in the conflict. In essence, the White House’s argument is that the War Powers Act doesn’t apply:
Senior administration officials said that the president is not challenging the constitutionality of the resolution by not requesting approval from Congress, but instead maintained that because the U.S. is acting in a support role with no troops on the ground, no war authorization is necessary.
The U.S. is “not engaged in any of the activities that typically over the years in war powers analysis is considered to constitute hostilities within the meaning of the statute,” White House general counsel Bob Bauer explained.
“We’re not engaged in sustained fighting,” Bauer said. “There’s been no exchange of fire with hostile forces. We don’t have troops on the ground. We don’t risk casualties to those troops. None of the factors, frankly, speaking more broadly, has risked the sort of escalation that Congress was concerned would impinge on its war-making power.”
This is an asinine argument. NATO is fighting a war with close air support over Libya. The US is involved, in part by dominating NATO, and in part by actually using US assets in the fight. They’ve spent $715 million so far and expect to spend $1.1 billion by the end of September. This must be expressly authorized by Congress. The idea that the war is safe, or doesn’t threaten casualties, has no bearing on what branch of the government can intervene in a military operation. The President’s own letter says that “U.S. support for the NATO-based coalition remains crucial to assuring the success of international efforts to protect civilians and civilian populated areas from the actions of the Qadhafi regime, and to address the threat to international peace and security posed by the crisis in Libya.” You cannot say that and then also say that the US has no military role.
Charlie Savage has more on this, and it’s really a stunning argument.
“We are not saying the president can take the country into war on his own,” Mr. Koh said. “We are not saying the War Powers Resolution is unconstitutional or should be scrapped, or that we can refuse to consult Congress. We are saying the limited nature of this particular mission is not the kind of ‘hostilities’ envisioned by the War Powers Resolution.”
There’s no risk to US forces when a Predator drone bombs Yemen or Pakistan, right? Since JSOC forces are covert and not expressly even characterized as forces, there’s no risk to US forces when they engage in an operation, right? This argument just changes the nature of “hostilities” in a way that can clearly give the executive the ability to wage all kinds of wars around the world. As Dennis Kucinich says, this is nothing new:
“The claim that U.S. involvement in Libya does not constitute placing our armed forces in imminent hostilities has been used time and again throughout our history. It was used in El Salvador, Honduras and in Lebanon, where members of our Armed Forces lost their lives. We cannot fall in the same trap. According to an analysis by the Guardian UK, more than one month after NATO took over operations, the U.S. had thus far provided 93% of the cruise missiles, 66% of the personnel, 50% of the ships and 50% of the planes for the international operations in Libya at a cost to the American taxpayers now rapidly approaching a billion dollars. The White House claim that the war is not war is not a legal argument. It is a political argument. The legal argument will hopefully be addressed by the courts. Today, I, along with 9 of my colleagues, filed suit in federal court challenging the rationale that has brought our nation to an Orwellian war that is not war.”
Meanwhile, the UK has admitted that airstrikes will not force Gadhafi’s exit in Libya. In other words, the limited “hostilities” will have to escalate – and have escalated – in order to meet the goals of the mission. The official line is that NATO hopes for defections and pressure to force Gadhafi out. This doesn’t mean that the bombing is stopping; it’s being stepped up, in fact.
It remains to be seen if the House GOP leadership will actually do anything about this; the Administration’s arguments aside, the only way anything changes is through some actual enforcement. My tendency is to think that Congress will shrink from this Constitutional crisis, because they don’t want to have any role in matters of war. The court case from Kucinich and his colleagues is a long shot, but probably the only hope.





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You don’t understand David. This all depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is.
If this court case actually works, would US citizens have standing to do the same thing in regards to Yemen?
So then, if some nation should ever have the temerity to attack “targets” in this nation with unmanned drones, then it will not and cannot be seen as an act of war?
Drones are different from missles?
A drone is different from a V-2 Rocket?
If we’re usin’ drones, then we ain’t doing anything?
It is a good thing that drones were not used on nine-eleven, or we wouldn’t be able to claim the “right” to be having all the fun that we’re having in Iraq and Afghanistan and a bunch of other places where we ain’t at war, either.
It is mendacious double-talk.
It is a bald-faced lie.
Attacking others can and will have consequence and to use “ground troops” as the litmus test, when it is attacks upon the nation, upon the people of the nation that are the likely ultimate consequence, is disengenuous, even to the level of deliberate and intentional treason itself.
And, should the absolute worst come to pass, the Judge will say, “It is not treason unless it was meant to be treason, which, clearly (but secretly), it was not, case dismissed ….
Um, hey, you guys, terribly sorry about all this … I’m certainly looking forward to that drink you mentioned having over at the White House, Mr. President …
Shit! Is this damned thing still on? Clerk, take care of this, please, ASAP!!!… about eighteen minutes should do it …”
America the Great and Exceptional is above hubris of any kind, being Gawd’s Chosen it can do no wrong and certainly does not engage in war, why, technically, Obama, Holder, and Sunstein can claim, “American has not been involved in a war since the end of the hostillities of WWII. America has only helped humanity wnenever and where ever its help was clearly needed or openly requested.”
Ain’t truth a wonderful thing?
Thanks for sharing the real thing, David, the “official” stuff needs to be kept at the other end of a long shovel and well away from the spinning blades of air-moving devices …
DW
If the shoe were on the other foot, would we feel that another nation was not engaged in hostilities with the US if they launched missile strikes, aided an air bombardment campaign, mined our harbors, seized our financial assets, imposed sanctions, armed and advised rebel factions and had intelligence operatives on US soil?
Surely, the public would be more properly supportive of the Libyan Campaign if Obama just lied us into the war like the last guy did.
This is all Kabuki. If it were serious, Obama’s impeachment would be on the table, that it’s NOT is revealing.
BushObama can’t pull out because its a sign of weakness if he admits he is wrong. Never mind its a sign of Stupidity and Weakness if you are to weak to admit when your are wrong and change direction.Their philosophy (and policy) seems to be that if we’re just sending it in “over the transom” then it’s not really war-making. Or something? (:>
The only thing they do anymore in DC besides steal is War..oh wait a min. same thing.
From what I heard on this morning ‘snooze (I know, I know) the Congress critters themselves first have to address their own standing before the court to bring the lawsuit. That seems fncked up six ways to Sunday, IMO. (:>
Seems pretty straightforward.
This isn’t a war? OK, it’s not a war. It’s just an expenditure of funds not expressly authorized by Congress.
Congress, in its oh-so-vital task of reigning in spending, can simply pass a resolution to the effect that no funds shall be allocated in further support of UN declaration such-and-so. This is not failing to support the troops, since no troops are engaged nor being shot at.
I eagerly await the Republican House passing such a resolution. They won’t need any Democratic votes, since they have a big majority. Let’s see some leadership!
Are citizens allowed to sue the prez to stop a war? Really would like to.
Under the doctrine of “Congress interruptus” only Weiners can “pull out.” (Sorry, Things, but I’ve been itching to drop that somewhere.)
calling Eugene McCarthy
Even Dennis Kucinich, no righty he, says that at least George W. Bush complied with the War Powers Act and came to Congress before hostilities were started.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/166789-criticizing-obama-kucinich-credits-bush-for-asking-congress-to-go-war
But I take notice that the usual suspects amongst the anti-war Left are not bothering to protest this President. No, they only protest Republican Presidents who happen to comply with the law.
I wish Boehner would have a vote to cut off funds for Libya. I wish he had the cajones to do it. But even if he did – and IF is a huge word here – Harry Reid would NEVER allow that to come up for a vote in the US Senate.
And you know that I am right, too.
Really?
What did you just read and where are you, leaving a comment?
So we know Dennis lawsuit will not work and Dennis knows that too. We know that even if congress cuts of funding the senate and or Owarmonger can stop it.
So what can congress do? Anyone know.
Time for another impeachment.
And if “we” were on the “receiving end” of “something”, in coming, “over the transom” then …?
(It would be an “act” of war, wouldn’t it?)
It is this lack of the ability of putting oneself in the “position” of the “other”, this studied lack of empathy, which, when coupled to the highly “educated” lack of fundamental honesty, ducktree, it is these “acts” by which others will judge the “good Americans” who are too busy to be bothered and the persistent, cowardly self-serving behavior of a fully complicit (and war-profiting) Congress which ensures that there will be consequence.
But then, I forget, “consequence” is for other people and truth is whatever we say it is.
And, of course, Gawd is on our side, every single penny, nickel, dime, quarter and half-dollar says so.
Of course, so did German coinage, once upon a time, however there really is no basis for a legitimate comparison of Nazi Germany and the American “Homeland”, now, is there?
DW
The House can hold impeachment hearings.
Once a country is so militarized that ‘the people’s’ representative votes do not matter on issues of war and peace, these kinds of petitions become symbols of impotence, as do elections. They ring loudly as a form of hollow courage pretending to be moral outrage.
Warbucks interruptus?
You is verra good, ducktree, and possessed of most-excellent timing.
;~DW
Truth!
DW
Yet this same administration also claims that mere computer hacking is to be considered an act of war. When it comes to locking people up [indefinitely] and otherwise being beligerent, the administration is sure quick to define things in a military way…except when it comes to gettting Congressional authorization.
It’s all semantics.
If any other nation was to conduct itself against the the United States in the manner in which the US has Libya, any layman would understand that we were at war with that other nation state.
Our bombing in Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan are all wars of aggression which we started. The United States is fighting a war of aggression, not defense.
History will judge our nation very poorly. We continue to be blinded by our so called exceptionalism. Any and all special place this country had in the world was gone on September 12, 2001. Instead of acting in a reasonable manner, we burned the Constitution and went to war with anyone and everyone. For shame.
Up is down.
Down is up.
War is NOT war.
Courtesy of the alternate universe dictionary.
Also, theft is good business.
A democracy should only benefit the few.
And we don’t prosecute warcriminals because it happened in the past. All other crimes, including robbing a 7-11 will still be prosecuted. The list of what will and will not be prosecuted is flexible and open to change at whim.
I know it seems confusing. It’s because you don’t have the dictionary. Please read and educate yourself on what the definition of “is” is.
Also, 1 billion is nothing. It’s not like we can use it for education (blame the teachers), or the poor/working poor/middle class (who deserve their fate), or homeless starving children (who also deserve their fate and who need to pull themselves up with their bootstraps), or … oh I don’t know America.
/s
Glad we have pissed away almost a billion dollars on a non-war. Wonder how many jobs that could have created.
Obama is really working on the idea of being a 1 term president
Obama we have money for the Bush Tax Cuts no real Dems like? Yes
Obama we have money for more Wars no real Dems Like? Yes
Obama we have no money for Social Security that all real Dems Like? Yes
Obama we have no money for Medicare that all real Dems Like? Yes
How many JOBS could have a BILLION DOLLARS save or created in the USA? A lot
People need to start holding up U-HAUL signs to OBAMA, because he will soon be kicking out of the White House!
We didn’t “piss” it away.
We bombed the beejesus out of a country.
Why? Because they can.
Don’t worry, we can bring democracy to them too. And those who resist hate us for our freedoms. Oh ya, and they’re all terrorists.
We’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.
The cost of the war will be paid by their resources.
Mushroom cloud.
They have WMDs.
They have a connection to Al Qaeda.
Any talking point I missed?
The USA is not at war in Libya because we are just playing a supporting role. This is like arguing that you are not guilty of bank robbery because all you did was drive the getaway car.
John Yoo is smiling.
Every time he does, an angel weeps, is then tortured, and then dies.
Obama doesn’t mind because he will be richly rewarded on the other side just like POTUS’s before him. Same with politicians that is why they don’t care as much as you think about losing their seat. Sure might sting for a bit bt then more money starts pouring in
Well that is not going to happen. So Obama wins we lose again, and again
Still tripping on that Nobel Prize for Peace…
… and his Transparency Award. Lol.
Depends on what the meaning of support is….Is the the American now that Michelle can be so proud of? Surely not.
Aye
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Does Obama think the purpose of the US’ involvement is to back-stop French banks?
“Why Your Money-Market Fund Could Be Hit by Greek Default” (CNBC.Com, Jun 16, 2011)
So the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor, was not an act of war occurring to Obama. Gosh may be he really wasn’t born in Hawaii… to be so misinformed.
I had a fierce debate about this being a “war” in another site and I still believe it is not and I agree with the President’s reasoning. The Congress only has the power of the purse and this action is nothing other than to try and regain some of the power they so willingly gave away to the Bush administration. They can move to stop funding NATO anytime they want but they won’t and can’t pass that. Otherwise, they are going to whine about the President overstepping his bounds and do nothing. Again, folks, like it or not, this is not a war.
Now, should we get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and pull back from the vast majority of these foreign bases? Yes..by all means. Too damn much money spent and too much involvement in areas of the world that will like us a lot more from a distance. “When all you have is a hammer, everything problem starts to look like a nail”…bring them home!
Wow, nicely done.
Bismarck’s Germany is a good example, and we know where that ended up.
The once liberal Mr. Koh makes a startling claim about the nature of the taxpayer-funded, citizen-responsible actions of startling violence the president can engage in without the legislature’s consent. I’m glad Dawn Johnsen isn’t around to be part of this deconstruction of the Constitution.
Somewhat on topic, but not so much, there was a story in Le Monde last Friday on the French intervention in Libya. It seems that they only have one aircraft carrier that can handle the jets that do the close support, and it has been on tour now for 8 months. The French navy claim that they cannot keep it in operation much longer, as they need to do the regular maintenance and rest the crews. This is basic military logistics. So there is a kind of race going on between the deterioration in their equipment and the erosion of the regime they are trying to topple. If the French have to pull out, there isn’t really any other alternative naval force besides the US. Where the Brits are in all this I don’t know.
Except in this case, we are providing the weapons and ammunition, financing them and the getaway car, and hosting and running the planning sessions to commit the bank robbery and make the getaway. Or, rather, the intent is to occupy the bank and install new managers who will let us take out money whenever we want from anyone’s account, without having to present our guns in future.
The brits sold all of their carriers and have only 4 apache helicopters committed, besides some kind of special forces on the ground, and the french having ran out of actual bombs after their ivory coast foray unless we provide them, have been using cement which are actually for training. Now would be a good time for us to colonize western europe, if they weren’t so poodley already.
“Not seeing the forest for the trees” has now morphed into “not seeing the warships for the legalise.”
If Anthony Weiner is suppose to be this terrible distraction, then it is too bad he isn’t the distraction needed to keep us from adding more and more countries to our list of countries we are not at war with.
please be sure and direct your postulations toward Kucinich and 9 other representatives to let them know that you have approved the Presidents declaration of this “not war” so we can save the money for more bombs, or whatever. Perhaps Obama will have a job for you.
Is it still murder if someone doesn’t fight back?
“It wasn’t assault your honor. He kept hitting my fist with his face over and over. See, he even broke my finger.”
The thought process (or lack thereof) is astounding.
I suggest that you revisit the legislative history of the War Powers Resolution. There was extensive discussion before passage of what it would mean with regard to the United Nations Participation Act of 1945, which grants a limited exception to the President’s responsibility get Congressional permission before acting, at the President’s discretion, to respond to a request from the UN Security Council to help implement actions taken under Article 42.
This is just another political football being kicked around by the GOP caucus.
President Obama is being held to a higher standard in this than any previous President. Why now? Why Libya? and why him? in this drawing by Congress of a bright line in the sand? Especially considering that he quickly dialed back the US involvement in the NATO operation.
The real national security battle for progressives is making sure that the US military doesn’t sow the seeds for a new war by insisting on US bases and a strong US intelligence presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then he should go there and fight along side the men and women he’s putting in harms way.
I’m not a lawyer, but it sounds like an interesting legal angle to me to compel an end to Obomba’s madness. And I seem to recall back in March there was talk about Qadaffi learning from Egypt and “slowly” killing Libya’s internet.
Have there been any published reports about the US hacking Libya’s computer systems?
if Bill Clinton was the first black president does this mean Barack Obama is the first black Bill Clinton? Think about..BO is Clintonlike in his wordsmithing and actions!
I hope Dennis has begun drafting the impeachment papers. If he had the opportunity to bring it to a vote, who knows what could happen? Boehner would do everything he could to avoid forcing his members to publicly opine on war. But it would be worthwhile IMO.
Anyone happen to know if it’d be possible for Dennis to get a vote on impeachment? Maybe a vote to open an impeachment inquiry? It would be hilarious to watch Obomba’s clowns explain the points mentioned above, particularly how any pilots who survived the bombing of Pearl Harbor were not involved in an act of war.
Ever since Dennis Kucinich folded on HCR I’ve come to the belief that they’ve got some dirt on him (and so many others) that he’s now their puppet. So I’m not holding my breath. Look at what Weiner had/has in ~his~ closet!!11! Yeesh. (:>
From Historynet:
According to Obomba, Zenji Abe did not commit an act of war.
Weiner was hiding something?! Coulda fooled me!
About Dennis though, it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he moves for impeachment. Remember, like Weiner, they’re both facing redistricting that would probably not be too favorable to them. So maybe Dennis will go out strong?
Besides my belief that he would do it for the right reasons, the cynic in me recognizes that *if* Dennis gives up his seat in Congress and does not run for the House again… he could use impeachment proceedings as a catapult in a primary.
In 2006, Lamont beat Lieberman, the 2000 VP candidate. Who knows?
Please isolate the specific portion in the War Powers Resolution where you believe Obama has permission to participate in military aggression on another nation without that country attacking us first, or even an expanded view of preempting an attack on us, or where this doesn’t even concerns our interests.
You don’t really expect readers to locate, and then review “extensive discussion before passage” of the actual resolution to prove or disprove your point, the point you are unwilling to isolate by cutting, pasting, and linking to, in order to make your argument for you, do you?
This ignores the fact that Boehners and Kucinch’s amendments were almost evenly divided for and against by party, and that Kucinich is taking the lead in the court case. In fact Boehners resolution and his letter to Obama were actually providing cover so Obama could continue with his shiny new war without an actual congressional declaration of war.
The onus is on you to provide some proof for your assertions
Even Bush got Congressional approval. I remember the threats to him by congress against starting one with Iran without their approval.
Nice deflection by the way, telling us what our real focus should be, to make sure we don’t sow the seeds of a new wars in the same locations as the old ones, and before they have even ended, while ignoring the one he’s making now.
What they had on him was pressure they could apply in an upcoming election. He didn’t have a lot of money and they would have not contributed to his reelection, they could have ran a challenger or even funded a Republican. Obama went to Ohio to use the bully pulpit on that day against Kucinch.
Mitt Romney said Obama could talk hungry dogs off of a meat truck. After a ride in the AF1 on the way to Ohio for Obamas speech, DK was saying crap like “Transformational President”. DK is human and is susceptible to the power of rhetoric, especially when it’s sustained and there are others reinforcing the message, just like we all were when we voted for this empty suit.
Looks to me like DK has refound himself. He’s incorruptible and principled.
If it was true, what you say that they had anything on him, he’d be as quiet as a church mouse.
there was plenty of word-smithing going on in the Cheney Administration. Prisoner of War became unprivileged combatant, the drowning torture became water-boarding, torture became enhanced interrogation just for a few.
Absolutely. But I add that it’s probably more about cover for his House Rs and less about cover for Obomba… though I’m guessing he’s happy to help all members of The Incumbent Party avoid icky votes.
“Obama is really working on the idea of being a 1 term president.”
Working? Did you say “working”?
Actually, Obama has already cemented himself into being a one-termer. His complete lack of an economic program has doomed this economy to stalling. He is as doomed to one term as Jimmah Carter and George H.W. Bush were.
It’s my impression that Boehner is less about partisan point scoring than the excreta called Harry Reid.
Agreed.
Pssst. Anyone notice? We’re at war in Yemen, too. We have about as much going on there as we do in Libya. Only you’re not supposed to notice. Move along, nothing to see here.
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There is only one thing left to do….start over. No one is going to do anything to stop this fool and his Libya operation. These freakin’ politicians have done nothing to help this country out of it’s economic mess but they sure damned well do everything to help every other country out. Kucinich himself said this was an impeachable offense but decided against filing for impeachment. There is not a stand up one in the bunch. It’s time to stop pussy footing around. If these folks get voted back in again then we are to blame & not them.
Odd behavior for a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
But seriously, most who read FDL will vote for President Obama in 2012 because they will prefer him to the Republican alternative. The President knows this, too, which is why all of the sincere, heartfelt complaints in this forum are ultimately wasted.
If it’s close coming to election day, he’ll throw the left a bone… close Guantanamo? amnesty for undocumented workers? express vocal support for gay marriage? (it won’t involve prosecution of members of the Bush administration for war crimes for obvious reasons)… and the Left will rationalize that “Republican X would do the same kind of thing we are seeing in Libya but not give us the other things we want so we HAVE to support President Obama”.
That is why (IMO) Progressives fail where the Tea Party succeeded. The Tea Party was willing to risk having seats end up further to the Left in order to have their voices heard. Until Progressives grow that kind of spine, they will remain politically irrelevant.