The Twitter town hall with President Obama actually produced a decent question. Renegade Nerd asked: “Mr. President, will you issue an executive order to raise the debt ceiling pursuant to section 4 of the 14th amendment?”
Obama stuttered a bit, and then gave a history of the debt limit itself, the statutory grant of borrowing authority for the Treasury Department. And then he continued. He acknowledged the debate over the 14th Amendment, and the idea that the President could issue an executive order to demand the public debt be paid and not questioned. But he effectively dodged it. “I don’t think we should even get to the Constitutional issue,” the President said. “I think Congress should be able to get a deal that satisfies all these issues.” Basically, he put it back on Congress to figure out a deal, rather than use this Constitutional option as a preface to get to a deal.
Later, Obama was asked – by Nick Kristof, who really shouldn’t have gotten a question, as he already has a platform – whether it was a mistake to not include the debt limit in the deal on the Bush tax cuts from last November. Here, the President rejects the premise of the question, and says that the Republicans wouldn’t have agreed to such a deal. He didn’t say that he tried to get them to include that, but that he basically had a swap on the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy for some help on the economy, and that’s what he was able to get.
In both cases, the President both declined to answer the question, and found himself disinterested in using his power and leverage in the same way as Republicans. I mean, in a way these are the same question. In both cases, the President was in possession of something – the Bush tax cuts, a plausible way to get out of the debt limit trap – and he chose not to use those things, instead allowing the process to play itself out. He wasn’t willing to threaten to let the entire Bush tax cuts expire at the end of last year, and he’s not willing to threaten to force Treasury to pay the bills.
Now, maybe the Republicans somehow have more leverage than the President does. Maybe they can simply move to the 2012 budget fight if Obama forecloses on the debt limit hostage-taking option, demanding the same deal and shutting down the government, and impeaching the President for perceived violations of the Constitution besides.
But it’s undeniable that the President is disinclined to use actual leverage points to get things from the opposition that one would think he would want. Maybe it’s time to recalibrate the belief in what we think he wants.
UPDATE: Ryan Grim has the full quote:
“I don’t think we should even get to the constitutional issue,” Obama said after outlining the issue. “Congress has a responsibility to make sure we pay our bills. We’ve always paid them in the past. The notion that the U.S. is going to default on its debt is just irresponsible, and my expectation is that over the next week to two weeks that Congress, working with the White House, comes up with a deal that solves our deficit, solves our debt problems and makes sure that our full faith and credit is protected.”
This doesn’t address what happens if – when? – Congress fails in its responsibility.




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Just another one of the many, many examples of how the president is not on our side.
Our best chance now is if the president is forced to use the constitutional option, because congress failed to reach a deal. Unfortunately, this relies on enough Senate Dems being on our side. I’m not optimistic.
I’d be surprised if Obama does anything directly. I’ve never seen a politician so averse to getting his hands dirty. What will likely happen is that a pre-selected government contractor (if not several) will receive an official notice that the government is unable to honor contracts because of the debt-limit law. That contractor (or contractors, conveniently in different federal districts) will then immediately file suit in federal court asking for injunctive relief on the grounds that the debt-limit law is unconstitutional. The contractors (and everyone else) get a restraining order on implementation of the law until the suit (or suits) completely–all the way up to the Supreme Court–works its way through the judicial system.
Any “deal” Obama makes on the debt limit he owns down to the last comma. Whatever is in there is what he wants. He just also wants the option of pointing his finger elsewhere and saying they made me do it.
Obama’s schtick is avoiding responsibility.
Always.
Oh, I think more and more people are recalibrating the notion of what this president wants, and whether what he signals he wants is in the best interests of America’s working class (which includes the so-called, erstwhile “middle class”).
I’d say stuttering is as good a description of Obama’s Presidency as any. What a putz.
how is continuing to overextend the country’s finances good for the middle class? Sounds like he is comfortable with the deal that will come out of congress and I think we all need to look at that as a good sign.
Funny what bush wanted bush got , obama not so much, damn little, squat, whatever.
Based on Obama’s utter lameness thus far (too small stimulus, HCR minus the Public Option, TARP, Iraq/AfPak, Bradley Manning, Finacial “reform”, Bush tax cuts, etc.) he is either too stupid to breathe, or he really believes he is a Reagan Republican. Since the man can actually pronounce some words correctly, I would have to go with door number two.
But it’s undeniable that the President is disinclined to use actual leverage points to get things from the opposition that one would think he would want. Maybe it’s time to recalibrate the belief in what we think he wants.
Gee ya think? Welcome to the club, we’ve been inviting you for a long time now..
Ya think?
Not sure what there is left to “recalibrate.” I think most of us who blog here regularly “recalibrated” on Obama along about 2 – 3 months of Obama’s term in office. None of this is AT ALL surprising. What would’ve been surprising is if Obama had, as polculture notes in #3 above, taken some kind of responsibility for whatever DEAL he has already MADE with the PTB re the debt ceiling.
Make no mistake, Barry Zero is *quite clear* on what will happen & how it will come down. We’re back into the Kabuki Show realm here.
But will Zero take an iota of responsibility for anything?? HECK NO! And why should he?? We’ve seen a number of Obamabots posting quite “vocally” here recently in defense of Obama and the Democratic politicians… if Barry actually stood up & spoke out about his underhanded intentions, he might actually cause the veils to fall from those “constituent’s” eyes.
At least: that’s one of the reasons I “guess” at as to why Barry puts on this dog & pony show pretending to be POTUS every day…. a significant enough segment of the population *buys* it.
Don’t fix whot ain’t broke, yadda yadda….
What are ya drinking??? I owe you one…
You are assuming he wants something other than what he’s getting.
While I agree I’ve been pretty badly disenchanted with Obama this past year, I think he’s doing the right thing by not threatening to invoke the 14th amendment. If he has to, I think he will, but I don’t think it’s a desirable outcome.
Eh? That’s where you and I have to part ways… I believe that Obama is “getting” EXACTLY what he wants… just like Bush. Shift your perspective a bit. Obama is not working for YOU and ME. He’s working for the upper 1%. From the perspective of the super-rich, what’s not to like with Obama?????
Now I owe YOU a drink, too… ha ha
Please elaborate on why you feel that way? I’m not being argumentative; I’m curious. Thanks for your input.
Paul Krugman has it right:
Usually a hostage doesn’t supply his captors with their guns.
Thanks for providing the Shrill One’s words on this topic, to which I add a hearty: A-MEN!
His entire presidency has been a “dodge.”
Vodka tonic, maybe October 6th night at the protest in DC.
That kinda stuff just kills me (not the vodka tonics), we need to have the narrative start being look how both parties do the same corrupt things…together. Not wow, those democrats sure dont’ act like they are supposed to meme every day (and I mean every day it’s a new shock for some apparently)…
Also, no more Sarah Palin. Leave that crap to DKOS and Huff Post.
But if you only *pretended* to be captured by the “enemy,” then you don’t care if your “captors” have your guns… you’re on the same side and just one big old happy family… playing out your Kabuki show….
Why wasn’t raising the debt ceiling part of the bargain Obama made with the “hostage takers” in December? Keeping those tax cuts was going to drive up the debt.
Obama has to be either a Republican mole or the stupidest president in history.
Didn’t Obama take an oath to support the Congress? /s
Couldn’t agree with you more. I’m “done” with the notion that whatever Obama is doing at this point in time is so “surprising,” or “who would’ve ever *guessed* Barry Zero would *capitulate* yet again to the Republicans.”
I mean: seriously??? WHEN has Obama NOT capitulated totally to the conservatives???
Let’s speak the TRUTH. Who needs to “recalibrate” our concepts about Barry Obama? I don’t. I know that he’s was bought off a long time ago by Wall ST & other PTB to be the perfect Manchurian candidate in order to destroy the remains of the “Democratic” party.
Let’s get real. Let’s have a real narrative, not some fake phoney “ohmigawd I can’t believe it” nonsense…
Taking the oath of office is a meaningless formality. If it meant anything to Obama, then we wouldn’t be bombing Libya right now. If it meant anything to Congress, Obama would have been removed from office already.
More of them take their marriage vows more seriously than their oath of office.
“Hey Boner & Mitch (and Cantor, of course): Here’s the combination to the safe. And feel free to take anything in the store that you’d like. (If it’s too big to carry, I’ll order up a moving van for you.) Oh, and I’m assuming it’s OK if I go ahead and detail your cars, right? Maybe change the oil and rotate the tires, too?”
Sheeyut…
Obama’s stonewalling of the 14th Amendment question is a testimony to the ludicrousness of his performance as POTUS. Didn’t Obama teach Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School? Surely, Obama — the scholar of the Constitution, should be able to cough up a half bullshit answer to the question in order to justify using the 14th Amendment to increase the debt ceiling unilaterally without Congressional approval. Isn’t he waging war in Libya without Congressional approval? Unilaterally raising the debt ceiling without Congressional approval would invoke the president’s authority as Treasury Bond Printer-in-Chief which parallels his authority as Commander-in-Chief. Of course, I am assuming that Obama really wants to save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the U.S. economy, and the remaining shreds of legitimacy of the Federal government at all cost.
Obama is corrupt. Let me say it again. If Obama signs on to a deal cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, it is because that is EXACTLY THE DEAL THAT HE WANTS. Obama is just looking to Republican hostage-taking as political cover for cutting social programs and plunging the economy into the next recession (& possibly next financial crisis) because, as a tool of Wall Street and the rich and as a member of the top 1%, that’s exactly what he wants.
Boy, you got THAT right. Tell ‘em you wont use the 14th is like the “captor” telling the “hostage” I won’t shoot you if you try to escape. I suppose we will HAVE to take WHAT the republicans ared willing to GIVE.
P.S. Do you need some gas? Use my credit card.
Bingo!
Is it just ME or is MCConnell the most despicable of the three?
OTOH,….”I don’t think we SHOULD even get to the constitutional issue,” Obama said. He DID say SHOULD. Ray of hope?
It’s just you… no offense, but while I find nearly everyone in Dee Cee beneath contempt, loathsome & despicable, my loathing of Obama goes beyond the intensity of a million white-hot suns… just beyond anything I can even put into words… criminal does not begin to describe it…
Nope to any hope… remember Zero’s campaign… how’s that “hope” worked out so far???
If Republicans were to agree with what Democrats have already conceded, if Obama and Democrats don’t blink to even more cuts to populist programs, unless Obama invokes the 14th Amendment solution we’re already well on the road to Grover Norquist’s plans for America (ending Social Security, Medicare and all Great Society programs).
Ya think? It goes something like this:
Boehner: The deficit must be reduced immediately to restore confidence.
Obama: I agree wholeheartedly.
Boehner: Government spending must be cut drammatically.
Obama: I agree wholeheartedly — I’ve identified $2 trillion in cuts.
Boehner: Not enough. More!
Obama: Okay, maybe more — but taxes must increase also.
Boehner: Raising taxes would hurt a fragile economy. NO tax increases!
Obama: Maybe I’ll use the 14th Amendment.
Boehner: Make my day!
Using the 14th amendment is not something Obama wants to do. It is what he has to use if the House GOP cannot get the votes for any deal.
I don’t think that Democrats should make up the GOP vote deficit, but if they do as is likely folks like Heath Shuler should have to walk the plank first. (“Heath Shuler voted to raise the debt and cut Social Security”–damn good primary line).
“Change” we used to believe in, but no longer do. If the Dems don’t give us a replacement, they will lose big-time.
When you’re sleeping with the enemy, that’s all you get. Obama is the ultimate duplicitous enabler. He barely tries to pretend otherwise anymore.
Heh.
And go against the POTUS?
Assumes facts not in evidence; lacks foundation; vague and ambiguous . . . /s
Did Obama really say that?
There has to be a simple metaphor for how absurd that idea is.
“I don’t think we should even get to the Constitutional issue,”
Translation: “Renegade Nerd, you fool, you don’t understand how these “Town Hall” affairs work nor do you understand the nature of power in a Corporatist system. “Town Hall” events are manufactured expressly for the political benefit of those at the podium. There are no real questions as there are no real answers, and there sure as shit is no thinking or discussion. It is not about the “citizens” of the “Town Hall” at all. It is about advertising and authoritarian messaging. Secondly, if I told you what I was going to do, doing so would compromise my power. What the fuck do you think this is, a representative democracy?”
In that sense, Obama is a consummate TV president. By pretending not to get his hands dirty, he avoids personal responsibility and succeeds as a politician, who, after all, is only a brand, a visage on the TV screen.
“A society that punishes error-as Western civilization increasingly does–discourages individual responsibility. The false hero, who obscures the real activities of power behind a screen of meaningless activity, is more likely to survive in high office than an individual who is honest about what he is doing and whose errors are therefore visible.” John Ralston Saul from “The Doubter’s Companion”
This is just more bullshit kabuki theater. Obama is a republican in heart and mind if not in labeling. The dems by and large, are as well. If the deficit is really the issue, end the wars and get rid of the tax cuts for the rich.
Of course we know what this is really about is destroying medicare and privatizing Social Security. The bush crime family was just too obvious about it and the public made that abundantly clear. With the “sky is falling” scenario both parties are playing, this might be the 9/11 moment they need to do what they want with SS and medicare!
BO is extremely dangerous because he knows how to distract while pursuing his republican aims!
Yup. Just another scene in the good cop-bad cop con.
Dems are going to lose big, just as they did in 2010. Chris Hedges is right. The Democratic party is dead.
This is all kabuki. Obama and the Democrats could have raised the debt limit when they had a veto-proof majority, but instead they’ve intentionally put themselves in a weak position in order to justify what they do…they can’t admit that it’s what they want, so they need to give themselves cover.
If you replace the “D” next to Obama’s name with a “C”, for Corporatist, he’s getting exactly what he wants. If you think he’s in it for anyone other than himself, you’re sadly mistaken.
But this is where Obama and most of the media get it wrong. The majority party on the house is NOT responsible but are fanatical, reactionary, short-sighted idealogs who are perfect willing to trash the country to get what they want.
Obama the Twit at his Twitter Townhall meeting, how fitting… Republican Obama is our first black Republican President. Lucky us, we were taken in by the notion of “electing our first black President…” Whoopee do… More corporate than Bush; more imperialistic than Bush; more of a tyrant than Bush.
3 Bush wars.
6 Obama wars.
Fascist imperialism you can believe in…
Facts not in evidence? How many are defending the constitution against Obama’s usurpation of Congress’ war powers? None.
I agree.
What most of you felt to realized when you where hooting….”Obama the first black president!” You forgot to noticed he didn’t care for Black liberals! Nor do he care about the “Black caucus” So there you have it! Maybe next time you won’t elect a President by the “darker tone of his skin!”
Glad to see the light bulb turning on. Try to turn the dimmer all the way up now so the rest of them come on quicker…
I also think the dems will lose big in 2012. But then there may be some buyer’s remorse set in, as the thugs overplay their hand and people get upset, and the dems can creep back in the future. But that is not going to help us anytime soon. We seem to be trapped in a game of russian roulette and we take all the shots. It doesn’t help that Obama fucking refuses to put up a fight. But even if he did, this game is rigged. Tough times are a coming. My guess is he is betting if he gives up all the thugs want he can keep his place at the table. some place, eh?
Dead or irrelevant? Please see post #48 by spanishinquisition. The Democrats are phony opposition. We have to realize that our only hope is ourselves.
I refused to register to vote when I moved last year because it is pointless. At least when I lived in California I could vote on propositions. Even then I stopped voting for candidates after the 2000 elections except to cast a protest vote for Al Sharpton in the 2004 Democratic primary and one for Ron Paul in the 2008 Republican primary. (As an independent, I could vote in either party’s primary.)
The whole system needs to be thrown out.
You are making a lot of assumptions and generalizations about people.
On your point that Obama didn’t like black liberals, this is true. Cornell West can attest to that.
And black liberals don’t like him much either. At least those of us not caught up in the cult of personality. So yeah, include me, Cornel West, Glen Ford, Cynthia McKinney, and others to name a few!
Amen that is what needs to be said at all times.
I got hammered on Crooks and Liars for making that point. It sounds so simple when someone else says it.
Well, it’s true that Obama IS the first AA POTUS, but that’s NOT why I voted for him.
IMO, Obama intensely LOATHES *anyone* who is progressive, liberal, trad-Dem, leftie and probably even truly “independent.” I don’t think anyone’s race, gender, ethnicity, religious beliefs, etc, matter to Obama. He just despises us all bc of our political framework. Those of us who willing speak out to *expose* what a sell-out fraud he is are up for particular disparagement.
Whistleblowers of any race/gender/creed will be sh*tcanned. Ask Shirley Sherrod, Van Jones and/or Pfc Bradley Manning… just for starters.
Some people do NOT like the TRUTH, bc they like to cling to their deluded fantasies. So they shoot the messenger. It’s painful, but I also believe in the addage: the truth shall set you free. Keep speaking out in similar fashion. I, too, am often “unpopular” amongst my trad-Dem friends, who wish to cling to their beliefs that Obama is really just a “good guy” or whatever other barfulous crap it is that they believe.
Please note the ‘snark’ tag. I was referring to the part of your comment about their purported fidelity to marriage vows. Now that’s rich!
Thanks I appreciate the insight. I have nothing to lose by speaking the truth.
What will likely happen is that a pre-selected government contractor (if not several) will receive an official notice that the government is unable to honor contracts because of the debt-limit law…
Hey, I wonder if Jonathan Gruber has any invoices outstanding? Sorry, blast from the past. :o)
http://my.firedoglake.com/rayne/2010/01/10/follow-the-money-your-tax-dollars-bought-jonathan-grubers-services/
Why are Senate Dems necessary for using the 14th Amendment?
There’s no REASON to be optimistic.
If one follows various stories about the ‘dealing’ going on behind closed doors with Boner n Obama we rest assured that Social Sec and other ‘entitlement programs’ like Medicare and Medicaid are gonna take big hits, other social services programs to the poor will take big hits.
N the rich and corporations will remain un or under taxed.
As HuffPo points, look for 2-1 spending cuts to social services versus tax raises.
Tax the rich, feed and shelter the poor, raise debt ceiling and cut the war budgets, n spend like crazy for jobs creation and BOOM, you have yer revenues back to ALL domestic needs.
No jobs means no taxes!
Sorry, know I’m ranting to the choir again.
Sooner or later this shit is gonna explode, economically and politically and socially. That fracture in our nations makeup is gonna create all KINDS of unpleasant change . . .
Question is when this will blow up in their faces, or when the masses will rise up, quit the system and demand positive change by force of mass in the streets (all non violently, of course!.
LeSigh.
Oh . . . have always liked yer comments Mike, thanks for them.
Except when he’s enabling the 1% agenda, which in the case of the debt ceiling he’s performing at peak effort. Chipping, eroding, killing social services and any government funded safety net structures n programs.
He’s a perfect corporate fascist, in a perfect corporate fascist system that owns and operates it and us, all, top to bottom.
Any of we the people are crazy if we think this can be reformed or changed from within this system . . . n hell, it’s gonna collapse on itself anyways, just a matter of time.
He’s a corporate tool, I wish folks would just say it and stop with the Reaganism or other thangs.
It’s not about party or political values even, it’s class war.
The rest is a kabuki to perpetuate the myth of democracy and multiple party (two) to con the masses.
Obama’s been s deliberate, consistent and he’s for the corporate fascist machine that owns us.
Yeh, I owe the both of yas.
Thanks for the plain talk, wish others would adopt it in this forum.
Dude, or dudette . .
I’t's NOTHING about party affiliation, that meme has been exposed. for the scam that it is, where you been?
It’s class warfare and Obama works for the 1%, as does the judiciary, congress, the military, Wall St., etc.
Another round for this person!
Spot on n thanks.
Clear, plain and concise language.
No bullshit. Obama works for the oligarchy, which is a corporate fascist one.
Heh, late the party again . . . well, that was fun.
*G*
Thanks.
It’s dude.
True enough and I’ve made the point myself at times. As I’ve said before, the Democrats are to the Republicans what the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters: phony opposition. They’re all secret Republicans.