Just because John Boehner bugged out of the grand bargain, I wouldn’t say that the safety net has yet been saved by Republican militance over tax cuts for the rich. People didn’t pay attention to the fact that chained CPI, for example, which would throw 245,000 older people into poverty by 2050, was already a feature of the debt limit talks before all this talk of a grand bargain started. The Medicaid proposal for a “blended rate” of federal participation, which would shift costs to states and either make the program more costly to beneficiaries or lower reimbursements so much that providers won’t take patients, had the support of the White House when it was included in his April budget package, and the White House continues to defend it even as they acknowledge the importance of Medicaid to the overall health care system. And we know that Medicare cuts were already agreed to in the Biden talks, though all indications are they would be cuts to providers (which I’m actually less concerned about, and who knows, maybe Pharma will take a hit). It’s possible that all three of these features get included in the smaller, $2.4 trillion debt limit deal, although more expanded cuts, like raising the Medicare eligibility age or means testing, are probably off the table now.
With Democrats announcing their opposition on these matters, maybe one or all of them get thrown out too. Maybe defense takes the hit, or Ag subsidies. They’re still working that out.
But it’s important to note that the same problems in the economy from before Boehner dropped out of the talks exist today. The economy isn’t creating any jobs. There may be any number of reasons for that, but I would say one of the biggest is that fiscal policy is contracting. We had a stimulus package, the Recovery Act, which spent most of its money in the last two years. Now, that money has dried up, which means that on net, we are in a period of anti-stimulus. This isn’t just true at the federal level, but in the states, where balanced budget requirements mean spending cuts or tax increases when deficits crop up. To quote Krugman:
So stimulus has been fading out fast; in effect, we’re pursuing a contractionary fiscal policy. Meanwhile, the underlying source of our slump, the high level of consumer debt inherited largely from the housing bubble, has declined only slightly.
And quelle surprise, as Yves Smith would say, the economy is sputtering.
If you do the 1937 thing, you shouldn’t be surprised at getting the 1937 result.
Indeed, fiscal policy has tracked what Republicans claim to want, with less spending and more austerity. And it’s led to a bad economy. The confidence fairy is resting in the clouds.
So though a bullet may have been dodged with the grand bargain talks, what we’re still looking at is either a $2 trillion deficit reduction package or a debt default. And while the latter would be catastrophic, the former would be the opposite of what the economy needs right now. We need immediate action to help the ailing job market. There are legitimate steps to take, just by funding a program of infrastructure maintenance like painting schools or fixing up vacant homes (things that cannot be done by a robot) or providing aid to the states, that would put people back to work right away, giving them money to spend on services, boosting retail sales, and creating a virtuous circle. When the chief executive of PIMCO, basically the bond market, is screaming that a grand bargain must include growth-inducing measures to create jobs, you know this is dictated simply by the facts and not ideology.
The serious people who dismissed Nancy Pelosi’s query of why the debt limit was coupled with deficit reduction are in fact pursuing the out-of-touch strategy by attempting to contract fiscal policy during a jobs crisis.





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Thanks, dday. Nice job connecting the dots and keeping the larger picture forefront.
These people who are considering actions that would cause great pain to large numbers of individuals, have the audacity to speak of “politically painful, but potentially historic” actions. What’s next, “Man up and kick more citizens in the teeth while your eyes drip crocodile tears”? Gah! LINK.
maybe….. (half kidding)
“Senilicide (the killing of old people) was never universal among Eskimos. It was common in some parts of their range but more so among the Inuit (Greenland to Northern Alaska) than the Yuit (western and southwestern Alaska).
Where it was practiced, senilicide was rare except during famines.
On the other hand, when food did run short, the old and sick were looked upon as drains on the community’s resources. Sometimes they were killed – thrown into the sea, buried alive, locked out in the cold, or starved to death. Far more commonly they were simply abandoned to die. ”
I can’t get over the cut to home heating supplement for the poor, which is basically another way of doing the above mentioned.
Not pretty.
The ENTIRE talk about ‘debt default’ is pure gibberish. Besides the 14th Amendment-which Geithner says won’t be used- and coin seigniorage (which isn’t even being brought up though entirely legal and available to the ‘policy makers’), there is the fact that the debt limit itself may be unconstitutional.
This is ALL about supporting a corrupt system of central banks and their subsidiaries.
And it also leaves out how the FED provides liquidity to the Treasury.
Barack Hoover Obama, The REAL Republican.
Lets be honest David, both policies are catastrophic. Taking $200 billion annually OUT of the economy is what? Something like 2% GDP every year. Seeing as we only grew 1.9% the last quarter because of the last foolish round of austerity, you’re talking 10 years of negative growth. No country survives that.
Hoover was a far better President than people give him credit for and does not deserve to be compared to Obama.
He was a bit slow on relief, but he actually proposed a Social Security system. His party balked and later nominated him official fall guy, for everything.
Hoover said “The trouble with capitalism is capitalists; they’re too damn greedy.” He started what was later named the Hoover Dam project as a major stimulus project, and did it unapologetically with deficit spending. His problem was he didn’t realize that his fellow party members were “would be” economic aristocrats and not true believers like him. He was tagged with the blame- the Jack Ruby of the 1920′s laissez faire assassination of the global economy.
Actually it wasn’t just a laissez faire disaster, It was worse than that. The economic destruction was hastened by Britain’s return to the gold standard. It was also hasten by Smoot Hawley protectionism- perhaps the single greatest accelerant to economic decline as it stopped all global trade to protect employment, resulting in a trade war and massive unemployment. Also the Fed opted for a “tight money” policy fearing the governments fiscal profligacy was going to result in run away inflation.
Hoover gave us national standards in tooling and homogenized milk, and the early FDA. Hoover was positively left of the Tea Party and almost all of today’s neoconservatives. He was the hardest working and perhaps most successful Secretary of Commerce in the history of the United States. He was credited with saving millions of Europeans from starvation at the end of World War I.
He also helped launch UNICEF and CARE and opposed the Vietnam and Korean wars.
Hoover would be a HUGE step up from Obama, Biden, Reid, or any Republican running today.
That cut to low-incomes of the heating assistance bill was ‘the straw that broke the camel’s back’ for me.
Thank you, David, for showing the dark underside of the blended ? to Medicaid. They have to do this covertly because it is a complete betrayal of their Party’s stated virtue of standing up for the poor and elderly and disadvantage.
apparently the obama administration wants even more austerity than the republicans.
it’s a battle between the Ds and the Rs for who is the most bat-shit-crazy. as of today, the Ds are pulling ahead.
from cnbc (my bold):
Christine Lagarde, IMF Chief, Asks U.S. To Raise Borrowing Limit
“The International Monetary Fund’s new chief foresees “real nasty consequences” for the U.S. and global economies if the U.S. fails to raise its borrowing limit.”
LINK.
mekathleen @ #6
thank you for things i never knew about Hoover — just proves how much of our “history” is written by the gold sacks of the time.
karen
Blacks’ economic gains wiped out in downturn
A generation that played by the rules and saw progress falls out of the middle class
“Economists say the Great Recession lasted from 2007 to 2009. In 2004, the median net worth of white households was $134,280, compared with $13,450 for black households, according to an analysis of Federal Reserve data by the Economic Policy Institute. By 2009, the median net worth for white households had fallen 24 percent to $97,860; the median black net worth had fallen 83 percent to $2,170, according to the EPI.”
LINK.
Without Obama finally using his bully pulpit to pummel the Repugs, I don’t see how this hurts them. They might get negative press initially in the case of default but then they’ll just say why didn’t Obama just agree to 100% of their terms of a smaller package? They’ll say that was their compromise. Then they’ll call Obama’s bluff on vetoing small packages of $500 billion at a time to fund the government. If Obama did veto them, after a while he would get the blame not them. And with each package they’d get him to agree to cut more and more. So by election 2012, they’ll be able to show that even with a minority they still get more done than a Democratic majority, they still delivered a massive cutback in spending while causing a Depression that they’ll blame on Obama. They’ll say there’d be no Depression if Obama would have just been “reasonable” and agreed to everything they wanted initially when really it is because he agreed to any of it that the Depression formed in the first place. I’m sure Obama thinks he’s winning because now he’ll run on the tax issue, but what is that? He’s still not running FOR something. He’s not even advocating raising taxes on the wealthy. He’s only running to do a little less than what the Repugs want. Still reactive and still wrong.
Obama is doubling down on his plans for four trillion in cuts, or that is the spin anyway. Wouldn’t we have seen 4T in deficit reduction if we had simply let the Bush cuts expire?
i’m kinda partial to wigwam’s “a fucking farce” in place of “pure gibberish,” but you are much more polite than me :)
I look for Obama to move to unilaterally cut social security and medicare in order to show how he’s “willing to make hard choices and sacrifices” and then calling on the Republicans to “do the right thing” and allow a “modest” change to the tax structure to close some loopholes or some other “concession” even weaker than that one.
Watch…
It’s the covert bankster strategy that drives me over the edge.
I mean could anyone but an Obama cult member explain what this guy stands for? Does any American have a clue what he wants to do? He’s for stimulus until he flip flops. There is no coherence at all to his administration. Who can tell if any of the growing number of wars is ending, ever. Americans still have no clue what was in the “affordable” act.
If he wasn’t in the thrall of the banksters he could have just drawn a Trumanesque line in the sand and said “I will sign no bill that cuts Medicare and Social Security benefits”. I mean, no one elected this guy to cut Medicare and Social Security. If he wants to run in 2012 on a platform of cutting Medicare and Social Security benefits, hey, try it. But he has NO mandate for that now.
Obama isn’t a bad President. He’s a bad Human Being. At least I think he’s Human.
Exactly. I see the same scenario, and with Zero forcing the Dems to gut SS and Medicare even if the TOP refuses to go along with any tax cuts.
“He was a bit slow on relief, but he actually proposed a Social Security system. His party balked and later nominated him official fall guy, for everything. “; contradicted by This section gives a thumbnail history of Hoovers views on the social security system.
The same link also contradicts “Hoover was positively left of the Tea Party and almost all of today’s neoconservatives.”; see the part where he speaks of a ‘balanced budget’.
Per here, Hoover “Believing that a dole would prove addictive, sapping the will of Americans to provide for themselves, Hoover adamantly opposed direct federal relief payments to individuals.” ; now who does that sound like?
Hoover DID do some ‘good’ things but overall was a failure because of his ideology and Obama is of the same ‘cloth’.
Thanks. Didn’t know any of that.
“I mean could anyone but an Obama cult member explain what this guy stands for? ”
Here’s a very interesting article in which the author analyses the intricate phenomenon of what Obama says and, then, what Obama does.
““a fucking farce” sounds too much like fun. *G*
x2
lol! good point.
Good link thanks.
The only thing the D’s & R’s are doing is punting the problem to get through the election. No one should buy into this BS.
Agreed. My words fail to comprehensively express my total disgust with almost everything this Administration has done since capitulating on FISA before the election.
While everyone is talking big money debt defaults and ideological warfare, Yahoo home page had an article about the cars favored by Gen Y. The article was so-so, but the comments following were mind-boggling. I hadn’t expected these younger people to hit the real economic problems they face so squarely, and so smartly, on the head. They weren’t talking cars; instead they were talking lack of jobs, low pay, high auto prices, outsourcing, buying used on the cheap, and the fact that “American Made” cars are really a collection of parts made elsewhere, from Mexico to Canada to France. This is where they are now, folks, and if our mad-hatter politicians continue their debt danse macabre, they may be forced to face a whole new generation that’s as mad as h*ll.
Just let the Bush tax cuts expire.
Yes, FISA was the tell for sure. I knew better than to vote for him after that, though I did, but I did hope I was wrong. So much for hope.
“Republicans wanted greater flexibility to deal with middle-income deductions so as to ensure enough revenues to maintain favorable capital gains rates, for example, said two people familiar with the breakdown.”
As the above statement indicates, Republicans want the vanishing middle class to subsidize tax cuts for the wealthy. This is not about jobs, it’s not about American families, it’s not even about applying rational economic solutions.
It’s about power and politics. It’s unforgivable, both sides. We all know the source of this deficit and how to easily solve the problem–1. let the tax cuts for the wealthy expire; 2. end the endless wars.
There is no need for any Grand Compromise!
There’s an article by Stiglitz titled, “The Ideological Crisis of Western Capitalism” that lays this craziness out and doesn’t play favorites. You can find it at Truthout.
Though Hoover’s strategies didn’t go far enough in the Depression and he didn’t have the support of his party, it is unfair to judge him the same as Obama, simply because he didn’t have the same information. Obama knew what happened during the Depression (and what happened in 1937 when balanced-budget mania sent them right back into the dumps) and he engages in neoliberalism anyway.
Hoover cancelled private oil leases on government lands. Obama pushes for offshore drilling.
He appointed a commission that set aside 3 million acres (12,000 km²) of national parks and 2.3 million acres (9,000 km²) of national forests. Obama is pushing to roll back national forest protections.
Hoover advocated tax reduction for low-income Americans (not enacted) and closed certain tax loopholes for the wealthy. Obama pushes for chained CPI which will raise taxes on working and middle-class Americans and used the last days of Democrats having the House, Senate and White House to push through the extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
Hoover created an antitrust division in the Justice Department. Obama’s DOJ hasn’t bothered to use it.
Hoover proposed a federal Department of Education (not enacted). Obama’s big education initiative is to privatize schools.
Hoover advocated $50-per-month pensions for Americans over 65 (not enacted). This was an establishment of a new program. Obama is pushing for cuts and cuts to funding (the Payroll Tax holiday) that could lead to the end of what we have.
Hoover denounced laissez-faire thinking and was a man who was pushing in a more progressive direction. It was not as much as was needed, and it’s good that FDR won. But while the times today call for an FDR, Hoover would still be an improvement over any of the clowns we have running the show today. When you look at these men in a context of their times and with awareness of what information they had from the past, Obama can only suffer from the comparison.
Hoover was no FDR, no LBJ, but to his credit, he was no Barack Obama.
Well if you think I do Hoover a disservice by comparing him to Obama, so be it; they are/were both captured by their ideology which trumps problem solving. Hoover did have one thing on his side that Obama doesn’t and that is a currency which isn’t fiat.
But you won’t get ANY argument from me that Obama has wasted an opportunity that seldom comes about and is a complete failure in addressing the pile of shit he inherited.
Hey I just wanted to share something I’ve noticed. I keep asking Repugs on other blogs to explain how everyone cutting spending increases economic growth but no one will answer my question. I believe this is a weakness to exploit. They have no answer to it because it is nonsense and hammering that message makes it clear to the public the nonsense they are peddling.
It is too late for any of that, I am afraid. Besides, most people out there don’t understand it and they will just buy into whatever bullshit they are told.
But eventually, they won’t be able to avoid the question. I think the most important thing right now is for Progressives to concentrate on what to say (and do) after the sh*t hits the fan, which it assuredly will once austerity is in full swing.
I don’t think so at all. This is a part of setting the narrative of how the 2nd Great Depression formed which I believe will definitely happen after this nonsensical debt deal goes through. If the drumbeat begins now it will only grow. “How does the economy grow when everyone cuts spending?” Doing so now will show us to be quite foresighted and corrected when the inevitable deflationary liquidity trap results.
Thank You! My sentiments exactly.
Probably in his 2nd term IMHO if he wants to get re-elected. If he does it before 2012 he doesn’t want to get re-elected.
He also supported Nazi Germany just sayin.
Good point. Keep telling them how screwed up they are. Maybe one day they will believe it. Maybe.
The proverbial “bottom line” to this saga is: Obama and the Dem “Leadership” in Congress likely will be shafting the Dem base once again. The impetus here emanates from Obama of course. He is holding the whole Dem Party hostage, having a lock on renomination. Which may force a lot of principled progressives to vote 3rd Party in 2012. I have warned my Senators (Dems) and Representative that I will not be voting for them again if they vote for ANY cuts in SS, Medicare, or Medicaid.
I once took it as an article of faith that it is, first, protect the re-election of the President; then, protect and grow the Party. Winning on policy is secondary, though linked to the first. While the deal being struck right now (2.5 T of entitlements/stuff for some closed loopholes/AMT) might not hurt Obama for 2012, it will absolutely destroy the Democrat brand and the makeup of the Congress. Obama pretty evidently doesn’t care about further hurting the Democrat brand, but I’m (maybe naively) stunned at how tepid the Democrat Congress response has been so far: this is an existential matter for the Democrats in Congress. Once they cede this–unlike Republicans–they’ve given away every bit of their raison d’etre. I’m certain that some Democrats in Congress realize this.
Obama is only going to hurt himself!!! people
Obama ‘the black president” that hates Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, is in for a very rude awakening!!! Ryan Grim said it best, OBAMA is not a friend of entitlement programs Ask Erskine Bowles and Alan SImpson
I strongly doubt that many real Dems are going to let the party of FDR, LBJ, JFK, and MLK, be wiped out by the black Ronald Reagan.
We can’t forget, 2010, OBAMA wiped out a lot of Dems here, in 2012 we are going to witness a civil war within the DEM party, where you have liberal dems and progressives dem bashing OBAMA to no end! which is going to be hilarious!
We blog on here like a guy with 9.2% un-employment, probably 30% un-employment among Hispanics and Blacks is un-touchable. WOW! Not
Obama is in la la, land, the idea of a black man attacking Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, and winning an election is not going to happen.
Imagine watching the following commercial
Elderly couple sitting around a table, eating Catfood, because Obama cut their Social Security Check
and in the back ground Obama laughing and playing Basketball.
this commercial right here ends OBAMA political career.
today OBAMA let Mr. J.P. Morgan himself speak Daley, his WH chief of Staff, who witness Banks receiving 13 trillion plus in bailouts from USA tax payers, and he thinks it is o-kay to cut social programs.
Someone better send OBAMA a photo of his family quick! I strongly doubt white america, black america, hispanic america, asian america, is going to vote for the black man that attacks Social Security.
For LOL
Obama is doing everything he can to lose in 2012!
Ask any black politician can a black politician attack Social Security and win a city council campaign, and on top of that be viewed as soft?
LOL
this is all insane! David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, have found the most ignorant Black Guy in USA history!
Hoover did not support Nazi Germany. He supported neutrality at a time when most Americans did. He felt that the allies in Europe could contain Germany. Yes, he believed that the US should continue to provide food to Poland, Finland and other Nazi-occupied areas in Europe, but I don’t see how starting the Commission for Polish Relief is a pro-Nazi enterprise. It was trying to make up for the fact that ethnic Poles and Jews were being starved out. It was a Food Not Bombs approach.
As soon as Pearl Harbor happened, he was in favor of the war. He just wasn’t an interventionist.
Obama, faced with WWII, who knows what he would have done. My guess it would have all depended on what the wealthiest industrialists and war profiteers wanted. At that time, that would have meant stay out of it and let the Germans take Europe. He certainly wouldn’t have wasted money on a food not bombs strategy.
I think that cutting entitlements will hurt Obama at the polls, but whatever harm it may do will be countervailed by the Villagers licking his knees over his “boldness,” which will make independents go batshit crazy with joy because they’re fucking stupid. So that combined with a weak Republican field means it’s still likely Obama’s re-election. Villagers won’t extend the same hagiography to Dem. congresspeople.
It’s not just about the Repugs. It’s about the wider public who is ignorant of things economic. By constantly saying this now and increasing it, when the resultant Depression gets worse and worse, the wider public turns hard against laissez faire and obliterates the Repugs once and for all. It will be shown to be the fallacy that it is.
In-depth article on Sheila Bair, the bailouts/screw-the-rest-of-you, mortgage mess, role of the FDIC (including watching out for the “little people”), Obama, etc. Boy, it’s a shame to lose her. I don’t even want to think about who they’ll probably put in her position, particularly since she stood up to Timmie.
Saw that earlier today.
I’d sure like to get Mr. Dayen’s or anyone’s thoughts about it.
Kabuki?
Flexing in new position?
Truth? Reality?
Thanks to anyone in advance who addresses the new IMF Chief’s comments.
Great read Mr. Dayen, again, n thanks again.
RCC’D. ;-)
The Great Recession started here in CA (at least in Sac region) in ’04 at the latest, with serious job losses in ’03 already beginning.
Yeah, I’m bitter . . . does it show?
*G*
Good info, thanks hoss.
Rcc’d. ;-)
x2!
Another Pubic Option *ptoui* we have to swallow.
Grr.
Oh please, it’s been as clear as New York Snow since the day he announced his cabinet and begin to shit all over progressives in his own party.
He’s corporate fascist oligharch doing their bidding in full.
Cut him NO slack, NONE.
She’s just the mouthpiece for the IMF’s board of directors.
A perspective on the IMF
Here’s the ‘kicker’ behind her words.“Where the IMF Gets its Money”
Can’t have the largest source of funds for the IMF having ‘debt’ problems can we?
The Rebaggers have absolutely NO reasons to help the US economy improve before the 2012 election, Obama has painted himself into a corner. Apparently he thinks he can finesse an already dismal, and declining, economy in the 2012 election cycle. It’ll be 1980 Redux, only much more dismal and hopeless. I can’t see the American people re-electing him on an appeal that “we all must sacrifice”, think back to Carter’s “malaise” theme.
Per the Wikipedia:
So if all Obama wanted was a $2T cut in the projected deficit, he could have had it by simply keeping his pen in his pocket when the extenstion to the Bush tax cuts came to his desk. But no. He had to save the hostages of that crisis and set things up so that the next hostage crisis would result in real damage to the social safety net. He really and truly is a dick.
“He really and truly is a dick.”; that’s a really an insult to penises all over the world. *G*
I hear what you are saying about the so call mythical independents that hate Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, and love the idea of Black President? what does not fit here?
the independents that hate Social Security are not going to vote for OBAMA, they will probably rather vote for David Duke and the KKK
Hate for Bush push Obama over the top in 2008. Even OBAMA hated his speeches
Obama is not winning anything without a lot of Hippy Votes, Progressive Votes, Liberal Votes, period. Yes 2012, will be a race base election. Ask anyone in the GOP field. “let me tell you what every GOP politcal strategist knows, that chances of OBAMA getting re-elected is at best 5 to 10% black candidates don’t win re-election ask Gov. Wilder?
the Republican Field is not weak! they are stupid, remember they voted for PALIN in 2008, so they will have no problem voting for anyone.
Obama on the other hand is out in LA LA LAND, thinking Independents are going to help him win any thing.
How many black US senators do we have? Zero
Obama is pissed off at the LEFT, LOL, he knows that the only way back to the WH is thru the Left, this is just a FACT!
Obama came begging for progressive help, and we whispered NO!
Obama can run around the WH all he wants having temper tantrums, LOL
Obama is becoming a JOKE! and he was already Hilarious, I OBAMA the black guy will attack Social Security, and win in 2012? this is beyond crazy
no one should send OBAMA campaign any money! it is complete waste of your money and time.
Read the Nazi Hydra in America, it is a history of the USA that will never be taught in schools.
Exactly. Obama totally and completely owns the whole quote unquote debt crisis and the shock doctrine play to force austerity on our already failing economy. It belongs to him.
Due to inflation, cuts of this nature grow over time, so there would be more deficit reduction in the out years. Still, even $100 billion in the next 12 months would be more than the economy could handle.
We go back to a modified Clinton tax structure, retaining the increased child credit, the marriage tax fix, the 10% rate but as a disappearing credit that is zero for incomes over $100,000, the alt min deduction changes, as we increase the top end tax rates by adding brackets for $200,000(39.8% Clinton rate), 500,000 (45%), 1,000,000 (50%), 10,000,000 (55%), and 100,000,000 (60%) of income with the estate tax set for over 10 million estates at 60%. Along the way we get rid of corporate loopholes that shove jobs overseas and turn our “high” 35% rate into the lowest effective corporate amongst our allies – while enforcing IRS Code 482 so getting a differed tax was as easy as getting an address plate on an off shore island 4 bed room house, along with a 1000 other corporations using that address.
Solves incentive to look beyond quarterly earnings problem by making the bonus less valuable, and brings in the revenue needed.
Then remove the wage cap for both Social Security payroll tax and benefit calculation, adding investment income to the calculation, setting aside 0.25% of the Medicare tax for Medicare Part B and Part D so as to get rid of the Doc fix each year, and start a modest Medicare for all for basic services via a 2% additional Medicare tax on both employer and employee with mandatory state boards to set service prices in each state as in the Maryland Medicare waiver (kill ACA subsidy for insurance and use money for Medicaid).
All this should have been part of the stimulus – and now may be impossible with a right wing Obama stopping it all just as he stopped the public option.