I think we’re dealing with another yo-yo situation, where the White House puts out a trial balloon, gauges reaction, and then pulls it back, allowing everyone to see what they want to see but mainly confusing the issue.
Earlier today the New York Times reported a wide-ranging deal between the President and House Speaker John Boehner, something that progressed all the way to the point where it was related to other Congressional leaders. It would have $3 trillion in concrete cuts, with a tax reform plan to be decided later – in 2012, during the election! – that would have a goal of raising revenue. So there would be all cuts, with the revenue option to come later. Never mind that, from the current baseline, this is a $0.00 deficit reduction deal. It just replaces $3 trillion in spending cuts, including cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, for the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.
Harry Reid, obviously briefed on a framework agreement, expressed concern about an all-cuts approach with only the hope of revenue increases later. Apparently there was a fail-safe attached to the previous Obama/Boehner grand bargain that has now been jettisoned.
One top Dem aide explained the problem: In early negotiations that ultimately collapsed, Obama and Boehner considered passing a package of spending cuts with a promise to tackle tax reform in the coming months. But — this is key — a failsafe written in to the grand bargain would have decoupled most of the Bush tax cuts from those cuts benefiting only top earners. If comprehensive tax reform failed to pass this Congress, those top bracket cuts would expire.
Now, the aide says, Democrats are concerned that the White House might abandon that failsafe [...]
“I only know what you know about the agreement — the potential agreement,” Reid said. “I’ve been told — a call came in from the White House during this meeting that there’s no agreement, they’re working toward an agreement. What I have to say is this: The President always talked about balance. That there had to be some fairness in this. That this can’t be all cuts. There has to be a balance. There has to be some revenue in the cuts. My caucus agrees with that. I hope the President sticks with that. I’m confident he will.”
OMB Director Jack Lew apparently heard a lot of anger from the Senate over this report in a caucus meeting. And now, Dan Pfeiffer has tweeted: “Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues.”
Well, it’s possible that the aspirational future tax reform plan does “include revenues” under Obama’s working definition. But that’s life with the yo-yo.
All we know is that we don’t know. There’s a Gang of Six plan that House Republicans and Democrats alike don’t favor, for different reasons. There’s this grand bargain plan that could probably get Republicans but maybe not Democrats, especially with only aspirational revenue. There’s the McConnell-Reid stopgap with $1.5 trillion in cuts attached, but there are arguments about the cuts.
About the only thing we know is this: because of the lack of a legislative agenda outside of these debt limit discussions, K Street is losing clients and having to hire less lobbyists.
So there’s a silver lining after all.
…the President just called a 5:30 ET meeting with Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and Durbin. This could be the “bring the hammer down” meeting where Democrats are told it’s either this grand bargain with no definite revenue or nothing.




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I’ll take nothing any day of the week.
DD says
“the President just called a 5:30 ET meeting with Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and Durbin. This could be the “bring the hammer down” meeting where Democrats are told it’s either this grand bargain with no definite revenue or nothing.”
Obama is going to make sure Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and Durbin know how to BEND OVER Properly for the GOPers, for LOL
Obama says “Be sure to BEND All the way over, touch your toes with you hands, this how the GOP like it”
Come 2012 are OBAMA, Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and Durbin going to show up at campaign stops and just BEND OVER, showing Dems all across the USA this how we work with GOPers? for LOL
Obama new campaign slogan should be ” Mr. BEND OVER” short for Barack Obama”
I think we all know what the term
mean.
In politician terms that means: That would be nice but I don’t really want that and you would have to be a silly person to expect it, because I already bargained that away. Please see public option.
BO = A Dem president who OFFERS TO SACRIFICE the weakest members of society so the rich can keep their tax cuts and the wars can continue.
Now what’s wrong with that picture? It is truly revolting.
So let me get this straight.
The deal is we cave on Social Security cuts, Medicare cuts the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy stay in place and maybe we might do tax reform sometime in the future.
In exchange the Republicans will agree not to destroy the American economy and avoid the wrath of the American people that would make the GOP a minority party for the next 50yrs.
Good job Obama.
Obama to America: either accept what I’ve negotiated in secret, without knowing any of the details or consequences, , and regardless of it’s affect on the partys future or the nations, or I will let the crazies tank the economy.
What’s the definition of an impeachable offense?
Sorry not even close but one term then some crazier person for one term, then may be a military coup. Who knows what the out come will be but it will only hurt Main Street. Sad
If you can’t be impeached for unilaterally ordering the assassination of US citizens with no due process, and for unilaterally declaring war on a soveriegn nation when the Constitution is clear on who has the power to declare war; then I’m pretty sure letting the crazies tank the ecnonomy isn’t going to be impeachable either.
One can hope though.
Cheerio or Duncan?
The GOP proved that an impeachable offense is anything you want – Clinton’s BJ became “perjury” of which he was never convicted – or even charged with – he was fined by a judge for not being totally truthful in a disposition.
Selling out to the rich meets my criteria for impeachment.
Wouldn’t that criteria mean every single member of Congress, the Supreme Court, and The POTUS be up for impeachment???
Sounds good to me!!!!
Can we just match aspirational revenue dollar for dollar with aspirational cuts?
We are on the same page!
:-)
There’s already been a military coup. That’s why it grows as a monstrosity while everything else continues to be cut.
Obama is guilty of political malpractice.
We spend trillions on defense and they still can’t defend us from our own president and representatives.
BaRook Hoover Bush, Flim Flam Man.
edit
so let me see if i get this, 3 Trillion in spending cuts to SS, Medicare/Medicaid but no definite tax increases unless its the Bush tax cut in 2012 (which in theory will expire in 2012), but we’re going to keep tax increases for the richest bastards under the Bush tax plan off the table…
Is that right?!?
Obama: “I put the but in yoyo.”
The mosh pit analogy a few threads back seems apt–or maybe a blender. Here’s what I think will happen. About July 31st or August 1st, Wall St will start to squeal like pigs headed to slaughter and a deal will get done to raise the debt ceiling, $500B in cuts (cuz it soundz good), and the rest will wait. They probably can sneak in the chained CPI because talking about formulas makes 99% of Americans’ eyes glaze over and drool starts running down their chins…just how the Ds and Rs like us to be.
This is insane. Does anyone care at all even if the Democrats are able to close a few loopholes? So what? By doing nothing at all they cut the deficit as much if not more than they do by passing some so-called grand bargain. Why should they act? And, even if the Bush tax cuts expiring didn’t cut the deficit for whatever reason, why on Gawd’s green earth do we care about deficit reduction when unemployment is nearing 10%? This is absolutely ridiculous. Obama is preying on the ill informed. He has choices. He can use the 14th amendment. He’s not sure it’s constitutional? How quaint. What an interesting time to concern himself with the Constitution. This is like a colossal fraud being perpetrated on the people. It’s like no one is seriously against cutting the safety net, they just want to figure out how not to get blamed. And, who is this bargain purportedly for? These guys all support screwing over the middle class. How is this a bargain?
Obama need not worry about impeachment, and there won’t be any default on the debt because at a moment before that day and that hour the Joint Chiefs will take charge of affairs.
When Obama delivered his ‘shared sacrifice’ address in May, he made a point to quote the JCOS Chairman’s belief that the biggest threat to the nation’s security was its national debt.
Umm, that item wasn’t meant for my ears.
OTOH: The American middle class just want to buy snow mobiles and dirt bikes with the leisure time/money. It may be necessary to eliminate this class in order to save the planet? How politically incorrect is that?
Yo-Yo, as in
“they comin’ for yo’ ass, serf!”
So it was hot air from the NY Times earlier today. The story about the story may be the story now.
Boehner also threw cold water on it. So maybe there is something the right wingers and the WH agree upon after all.
Lucy, Charlie Brown, Football.
What an ignorant sonofabitch.
Darth Sidious was supposed to be the savior of the Republic, but instead destroyed the Republic.
It’s amazing how many Obomabots there still are that believe this guy is doing everything he can and everything he campaigned on. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone with the stupidity of a lot of the poeple in this country. How many times does this guy have to sell you out before you realize that he’s just not that in to you?
Just had a nice conversation with someone at HuffPost and in the end his point was I’m a “Liar” and a “republican pretending to be a democrat just to bring the Ds down.”
Where am I?
I miss Bush/Cheney.
As horrific as they were, they couldn’t hold a candle to Obama’s relentless duplicity.
I’ll take a heaping helping of nothing too.
If the Democrats fall for the whole we’ll agree to tax cuts later crap then they deserve to lose.
Obama is always right!
” It’s like no one is seriously against cutting the safety net, they just want to figure out how not to get blamed.”
That sounds about right.
Where were you?
You were conversing with someone who likely would drink poisoned gatorade and lie down on the cot to wait for the spaceship if Obama told them to.
Negociating when the GOP controls the House, when the GOP fillibusters everything, and when our base is pissed cannot be easy. Though I would not say Obama has ran us aground. Hey there’s always the alternative… you can vote for Bachman, Romney, or (when he announces) the GW Twin! lol I understand your frustration though.
Breaking News:
President Obama has made a bold move to resolve the deficit crisis.
He has agreed to Privatize Social Security, Voucherize Medicare, Block Grant Medicaid and cut the rest of government 20%. On Revenues he has agreed to let the Bush tax cuts for the middle class to expire leaving in place permanently the cuts for the rich, capital gains and dividend taxes together with the estate tax will be repealed.
In a final move to show his bipartisanship he agreed to replace Vice. President Biden with majority leader Eric Cantor for the remainder of
his first term.
In exchange Republicans agreed to a 6 month increase in the debt ceiling.
This question is on Senator Bill Nelson’s web site. please go there and vote yes if you don’t want cuts to social security or medicare.
In deficit talks, if you could help avoid cuts to Social Security and Medicare by closing tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy, should that be an option? YES NO DON’T KNOW
where the majority of dumbed down sheeple means this crazy ass corruption can go on for a long time. Been this way, longer than you and I have been here.
So Obama’s going to “put the hammer down” to the Dems about how they have to accept massive spending cuts in exchange for possibly, maybe, letting some of the Bush tax cuts expire next year?
Gee, I could have sworn that when the “hostage-takers” had the unemployment benefits tied up last December and “made” Obama extend the cuts for 2 years, he swore up and down that this was the end of it, and that he would absotively posilutely never never never sign another extension again. No foolin’! You mean Obama lied to us???
To use another quote…”I can’t even pretend to be surprised.”
And isn’t always impressive to see Our President standing tough against the Democrats in Congress? Well, a President should fight hard against the opposition party, after all. (Okay, so most of the Dems are on the same page as Obama and his Repub colleagues, but the Dems are an opposition in theory, anyway. Gosh, Barry’s so manly when he stands tall this way!)
Sigh.
Sorry, but unilateral concessions don’t count as negotiating.
Of course, considering it’s just Obama’s way of getting what he really wants, he’s not really conceding anything anyway. It’s a charade for the gullible.
Ha! Perfect, fwdpost!
And as we go on, we keep finding out just how right he is. :)
Yeah I don’t even know why I go to HP anymore. Guess I’m just a masochist.
But their “seven sites you should be wasting time on” weekly article does bring me joy at work. A distraction from the depression state of the nation.
True, true… how would you approach the crazy GOP?
Masochist? Naaah. HP has some wheat among the chaff.
I did quit commenting long ago, though. Between the crazy neocons and the crazy O-bots, commenting became an unpleasant activity.
Guillotine? Good precedent there – “let them eat cake”.
Ain’t secret government grand?
[Saxby Chambliss - one of the backroom Gang of Six for the last seven months, and a former backroom Catfood Commission member - finally spoke on the Senate floor in reference to the Gang of Six deal late today, and noted "categorically" that its timing was not designed to play a role in the issue of the August 2nd debt-limit ceiling. Chambliss said the six Senators just happened to finally come to private agreement this week, and so announced their private deal "framework" (in private) to any interested Senators on Tuesday. (Though Chambliss might want to ask gang member and Obama-bootlicker Dick Durbin what Durbin's been privately sharing with the President about the timing and content of all this...) He also said that there's not yet any legislative language to implement the deal framework, and that the deal is not meant - and never was meant - to be cast in stone. Chambliss complained about, and is clearly bothered by, the many misunderstandings about the deal that he's been hearing this week from Republican and Democratic colleagues in the Senate (exactly what you should have expected, and deserve, for working in secret, Saxby, and for suddenly rolling out minimal details with insufficient groundwork considering the broader, white-hot context into which they suddenly emerged, if only by unplanned leaks).]
Remind me again why the Democratic Senate (presumably at the unchallenged, authority-usurping order of the President) is avoiding, like the plague, the use of the public, democratic committees, procedures and processes designed into that legislative body specifically for the purpose of bringing a full spectrum of conflicting, passionate opinions to a fair, orderly resolution by simple-majority vote (that is, designed specifically for the purpose of representative self-government, not secret negotiations between a self-appointed few)?
[On edit: I agree, Mike Lee and Jeff Sessions, with the powerful and important points you made on the Senate floor shortly after 7 p.m. this evening about the abuse of power, and abandonment and corruption of process in the Senate by Party leadership. Well said, and thank you.]
lmao! Perhaps a few hundred years ago!
I’ll write in Sanders. Screw voting for someone who is going to screw me over. I reject those choices.
May I quote you?
Don’t you speak badly about our transparent government and it’s leader who lives and breathes transparency(in between meeting behind closed doors with everyone from Pharma to Boehner.) :P
I’ll take nothing also…
I would start by not advancing GOP policy as the starting point for my negotiations. But that’s just me.
You have to consider that Obama does what he does because it gets him what he wants. Forget about the “D” beside his name and look at his actions.
That poll is being freeped major time. Either that or he has the poll weighted so if your accessing the poll from a CEO office it counts for more.
That doesn’t work for Obama. He truly believes what they do. Social Security was in crisis during 2008 too even as they were stealing it’s surpluses to fund wars.
Crazy GOP offered him a clean vote. He turned them down. Remind us again which of the two groups is crazy?
Very true.
But, in return, Obama has told them he’ll only accept a 3-month increase.
The No’s are winning Nelson’s poll! Crikey.
Link:
http://billnelson.senate.gov/
You get the govt you deserve and that is true of everyone including all posting on FDL
It was our stupidity or naivety over x years that allowed the middle class to be destroyed, while happily believing that we had a democratic system and the politicians worked for us. We believed we were free and we believed in the power of the vote.
Well all that believing has got us to here, and along the way many got destroyed but we did not notice. First they came for our…..but I was not part of that, so I did nothing. Then they came for….. and on it goes.
The simple truth and what they are relying on that as much as we huff and puff we will still give them all the power. I thought the write up of those that went to their representatives offices was insightful. For the most part they had to talk to school children, aides and interns, that were hired because they were sons and daughters of x, y, and z. I am not sure what says a bigger FU to the voter than that.
We need to throw them all out and move to direct democracy. It is the only way
Why are there a-n-y cuts on the table? Obama and the Democrats were handed a Congressional supermajority and massive public support. They couldn’t even end the Bush tax cuts, and lost control of the House. How are we in this position? Obama is a nightmare, and Democrats have finally shown their true colors. The US can’t survive with these jokers running the show.
I don’t deserve this government and neither do my children.
“…How are we in this position?…”
——————–
ACA
How does one discuss the Gang of Six saying this week that their $3.7 trillion deficit-reduction plan both cuts taxes, when measured against CBO, and raises them, when measured against the commission’s standard?
How do you explain that the CBO follows current law and assumes that all tax cuts expire on time, forecasting 10-year revenues of about $39 trillion, while Obama has his own “debt commission” that assumed middlee-class tax cuts and some estate tax and alternative minimum tax relief would survive, leading to revenues of about $36.288 trillion.
How do you explain that the trillion plus new revenue is really only about $400 billion in new revenues for a total near $36.7 trillion – and he has already agreed to lower that number?
How do you explain that Obama has worked to kill Reid- McConnell so as to conclude a deal with Boehner that wins House passage, forcing Senate Dems to forgo any opportunity to make changes before Aug 2 and they must pass it.
That is not one of the options.
The options are
- compromise, or
- no Social Security payments, government shutdown, debt default, soldier don’t get paid, recession, and maybe global depression.
But remember the voters, the people who actually bothered to vote, chose to have their government seek to extend the recession and drive up unemployment for a couple more years. Clearly by voting Republican, the voters are getting just what they voted for.
“Why are there a-n-y cuts on the table? Obama and the Democrats were handed a Congressional supermajority and massive public support. They couldn’t even end the Bush tax cuts, and lost control of the House. How are we in this position? Obama is a nightmare, and Democrats have finally shown their true colors. The US can’t survive with these jokers running the show.”
57 Democrats plus Sanders and Lieberman is not a supermajority, and that didn’t happen until the summer recess when Kennedy and Byrd were basically too sick to vote. 41 Republicans were seated in the Senate at the beginning of 2009, and Franken wasn’t elected until June.
The reason we are “in this position” is the voters put us in this position. Damn the Constitution and democracy…. The US will just never survive with this Constitution….
Obama folds like a cheap suit. Why should we believe he will negotiate this deal any better than the previous ones.
The debt ceiling doesn’t have to rise this month, this year or ever.
So nothing is fine by me.
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/20/beyond-the-debt-ceiling-the-30-trillion-plan-for-ending-borrowing-and-the-national-debt/