The President basically ended any hope of a grand bargain, breaking off negotiations with House Speaker John Boehner. President Obama is holding a press conference right now on the way forward. Basically, he wants the Congressional leadership to meet at the White House at 11:00am tomorrow to “explain to me how we’re going to avoid default.” Obama said “we have now run out of time.”
More in a moment.
…A clearly agitated President Obama pronounced that Congress had run out of time to come up with a big solution on deficit reduction tied to the debt limit. The President clearly shifted this to Plan B, saying that the leadership has been summoned to the White House tomorrow morning.
“What this came down to was there doesn’t seem to be a capacity for them to say yes,” Obama said, reacting to John Boehner walking out of the negotiations and not even returning phone calls from the President today. He said that Democrats bent over backwards, pushing the deal as far in the Republicans’ direction as possible. They just wouldn’t go for it. In the end, they refused to add any revenue into the deal.
The primary goal now is to increase the debt limit, and Obama still wants that through the 2012 elections. “We’ve seen how difficult it is to get any kind of deal done. We will not be in a better position 5-6 months from now,” Obama said.
Obama certainly wanted it to be known to the press that Democrats were more willing to compromise than Republicans. “When you write your stories tomorrow, this was not the usual food fight between Democrats and Republicans. A lot of Democrats stepped up in ways that were not advantageous politically. We showed we were willing to do the tough stuff on an issue Republicans ran on.” Obama promised a tick-tock running down every single step of the negotiations, what the White House offered, and what Republicans counter-offered. That’s a pretty clear indicator that the deal is dead.
This may be an advantage politically for the White House, as they pin the blame for this on Republicans. But that doesn’t get the debt limit raised. “At minimum, we’ve got to increase the debt ceiling. I think we need to do more than that.” Obama for the first time recently expressed the willingness to sign a debt limit deal without deficit reduction, citing Mitch McConnell’s plan that would put the political burden on the President. “I’m willing to take the responsibility, that’s my job. What we’re not going to do is to continue to play games, and string this along and then have to go through this exercise again.”
“Even if I didn’t think the deal was perfect, at least it would show that this place was serious,” Obama said, justifying his offer of a deal more generous than even the Gang of Six proposal. “If you want to be a leader, then you gotta lead.”
Obama remained confident that he would get an extension of the debt limit and avoid default. “I cannot believe that Congress would be that irresponsible.” He pointed out some of those letters he gets from all over the country as why this must happen.
“I’m getting letters from people who say, at the end of every month, I have to skip meals. People who are desperate at the end of every month. But not just those folks, you have business contractors. There are just a huge number of people who interact with the federal government. Imagine what that does to the economy when 70 million checks are put at risk. That is not going to be good for economic growth. We’ve got to get it done … If the House Republicans are not willing to ensure we avoid default, they would have to take responsibility for whatever happens.”
This was a pretty fiery Obama today, clearly angered that he couldn’t get his grand bargain done because of Republican intransigence. But it manifested itself in a real critique about not caring about everyday Americans who cannot get ahead. This didn’t necessarily connect to austerity, but the fire was good to see.
…the letter that John Boehner sent to colleagues announcing the breakdown of the talks is here.
…Harry Reid has a statement:
“Republicans have once again proven unable to overcome their ideological opposition to ending taxpayer-funded giveaways for millionaires, corporate jet owners and oil companies. I applaud President Obama for insisting that any deal to reduce our deficit be balanced between cuts and revenues. We must avert a default at all costs, so it is time to reengage in bipartisan talks on an agreement that at least accomplishes that goal.
“I agree with President Obama that a short-term extension is unacceptable.”
…I actually missed the first part of the press conference, when Obama put hard numbers to the offer. He said that he had over $1 trillion in discretionary spending cuts, and $650 billion in cuts to entitlements – “Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security” – on the table, in return of $1.2 trillion in revenues. That approaches $3 trillion, and when you add in foregone interest, you get to around $4 trillion.




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Thanks DDay, you’re timely ability to read tea-leaves is greatly, greatly appreciated.
We do now have time, but we CANNOT let up on pressing those squirrely Dems to do the right thing and completely protect SS/MM.
There’s still time for a secret agreement, of course, with evil actions in it….
He just quit talking – this is not going to end well. :(
It seems to me that Boehner is looking to force Obama to take unilateral action with the 14th Amendment. There’s no downside for him. The debt ceiling gets raised. Wall Street gets what it wants in getting rid of the thing. He’s not going to be tarred for cutting a deal with Obama. He gets to denounce Obama ’til the cows come home for doing it, further inflaming his base. Obama gets his nose rubbed in his ego schtick of being some sort of great conciliator, and demoralized in terms of that and being made to look like a hypocrite. And look what Boehner’s gotten with this circus: Obama on the record supporting cuts to Social Security, which, per Digby, is already being used by for fundraising purposes by GOP activists. That demoralizes the Dem base, and guarantees larger senior turnout in support of the GOP November next year.
Dave, what’s your take on what Pelosi put on offer, before the breakdown was announced?
per me, too:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/07/22/republicans-already-attacking-proposed-social-security-cuts-from-the-left/
It’s basically McConnell-Reid with an accounting trick to assume a lesser amount of war spending.
Obama is still very clueless
Obama you were the guy wanting to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, these were you ideas
I think the Senate Dems did not like what they saw ahead? So they pull the plug on OBAMA.
Ben Nelson and other blue dogs? would have been easily defeated if OBAMA cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, by the WILLIE HORTON effect.
Obama is still off in LA LA land, nothing OBAMA has ever done has been fair and balance, for LOL
the GOP always beats the OBAMA WH by 70 or more points on any deal
OBAMA when you had control of the Senate, House, and WH
Dems got the following
Bob Dole Health Care Bill
Bush Tax Cuts
More Wars
etc. etc.
what Obama better watch out for is this question
Obama you will fight to kill Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, programs that help the poor, sick, and elderly, but when it comes to things like the Public Option you run and hide, and lie, v
PARDON ME. He doesn’t give a big rat’s ass about “everyday Americans.”
We were saved from a “Democratic” president by right wingers!
No one happily cutting Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security cares about everyday Americans only the wealthy and well connected and his daddy, Boehner.
x2 — at least so far.
McConnell was always the smartest guy in the room. who knew? :)
Nancy Pelosi showing everyone how to get the cuts, really undermine OBAMA and the WH also, nice play by NANCY
the leaks out of the OBAMA WH tell a story too, all is not well in the WH, and people are seeking the life boats
Nancy is all about self preservation, progressives told her, do a crazy deal with OBAMA and you will be out as a minority speaker.
I still think the fatal blows to OBAMA plans came from the Senate and probably Blue Dogs who got nervous, about how the GOP would attack OBAMA from the Left. for LOL
Obama body language and tone leads one to think he was undermine big time, by other forces in DC.
Obama come on? enough with the crazy talk about you being a progressive, you are clearly not.
Obama is trying now to sound as if he cares — to fool the rubes, voters who haven’t seen him for what he does, not what he says.
I think the criticism of Barry is entirely justified.
The long-term plan is still to cleave the bottom 99% away from the top 1%. Getting more Dems on board with that, is crucial to fighting the MSM who is wholly controlled by the top 1%.
I agree,
Obama is very evil
Obama is already trying to turn the story here, by saying the GOP wanted to attack Medicare, Medicade, and Social Security, not him, which is going no where
There’s no such thing as “minority speaker.” Is this a typo or typical?
All of his comments were DEEPLY cynical. He’s the one insisting on fucking everyday Americans.
To get re-elected.
True. And Galling.
But really, really great work on this, David.
Barack Obama Buys A Lawnmower
Yes, kudos to David for excellent work.
And so much of it!
sure obama is pissed . he couldnt get the massive cuts to SS and medicare THAT HE WANTED.
look..if you spend the last 2 years giving republicans everything the ywanted why would you think they would bargain with you now??
if obama had shown any back bone at all by letting the bush tax cuts expire last year or simply standing up to the republicans in ANY way we would not be in this position.
he acts like a right wing republican and thats what the republicans expect.
obama is NOT a leader.
Classic Obama.
He is going to get crucified (justifiably so) for wanting to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
But, gets nothing in return.
It sounds like Barry’s media people think they can use Reagan’s writings to inoculate him from raising the debt ceiling. Get ready for a lot of Obama commercials with photos of Ronny.
We saw ping, now what about pong…Boehner with a presser in a few.
All reports I heard were that Boehner ended the talks, not Obama.
Who cares, though, if it ends any chance that Obama will get his wish to slash our safety nets.
Tax hikes in a recession are baaaaad :-)
Thank goodness.
Nothing is better.
Default? 14th Amendment and Coin Seigniorage.
Let ‘em sue and the other is statutory.
Or we could ask for our 16 Trillion back from Goldman Sachs.
well said.
no question its the dems that got the message to boner…no cuts to SS and medicare.
period.
obama did not expect that.
This was act two of today’s kabuki drama. The first act was http://firedoglake.com/2011/07/22/the-great-unraveling-congressional-democrats-question-obamas-core-values-dont-trust-him/. So he could qualify his statements. Boehner’s statements is the closing of the second act. I wonder how many acts will there be tomorrow?
CNN says it’s scheduled for 7:15 ET
also to be on CSPAN
http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/
Remember… No matter what he says, Obama actively wants to gut the big three and screw working Americans. He could have had a clean bill last week, but he kept pushing for cuts even as Republicans waived the white flag.
We cannot let up.
TPM had this report of a morning GOP caucus meeting:
Think that sort of contempt got to Obama? This isn’t about ideology or policy now. It has gotten personal.
Obama’s argument is “If you can’t deal, what the hell are you doing in DC?”
I don’t think we’ve broken from the “four corners offense” yet. There are ten days left. And someone’s gonna try for the buzzer beating shot.
And Obama’s parting shot was a thinly disguised attack at the House majority leadership in terms often seen here about Obama, “If you want to be a leader, you’ve got to lead.”
Spot On.
You had your chance to lead, Barack — your FDR moment. And you hid in a back room, bargaining with the enemy and fucked your base.
Thanks for the post David. Obama couldn’t negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag. It doesn’t pay to start negotiations with Republicans in the middle and work your way to the right for an eventual “deal.” However, to Obama, the progressive position on any policy issue is immediately jettisoned because he does not believe in progressivism. Obama thinks that he will be rewarded in 2012 by the massive hordes of independent and swing voters for his repeated sacrifices of progressivism.
Too bad for Obama those independent voters are a mirage.
I’d like to know if he’s getting these letters telling him people have to skip meals, how many meals will be adjusted away if his grand betrayal gets back on track. One minute he’s talking about skipping meals, the next he’s adjusting, i.e., cutting benefits. So maybe we could get Carney or someone to give us the meals index. How many meals is the grand betrayal going to cost?
Paul Craig Roberts had a spot on article in Counter Punch today.
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07222011.html
Third Party is the only way out. Bernie Saunders should run and he would win.
That’s how many disaffected people are out here.
Voting for the CorporatistsD vs the CraziesR is no longer a viable choice.
Unless O unilaterally raises the debt ceiling without cutting social programs…and vows to stop that austerity shit, he *will never get my vote*.
He’s passed the point of voteability, IMO. I’m done.
At this point he could do all the things he promised during the campaign while standing on his head and I still wouldn’t believe a word he says.
Kinda makes your head spin doesn’t it?
I agree with polculture in #4, the Republicans have played this to perfection. We have an idiot in the WH.
Nothing’s changed then even after this “revelation.” All this development totally guarantees is that there really will be no raising of revenues whatsoever. Everything else: spending cuts, entitlement cuts, default, all still very much in play.
Boehner calls Barry a “bowl of jello.”
Then says “I’m not gonna get snyde or partisan…”
Boehner confirms not returning Barry’s call.
Heh. Let me rephrase.
Unless O unilaterally raises the debt ceiling without cutting social programs…and stops that austerity shit, he *will never get my vote*.
Called the DNC and got some smarmy guy who claimed Obama HADN’T put Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid on the table.
Actually had the nerve to say that to me, a couple hours ago.
“Don’t make me even angrier by trying to pull the wool over my eyes,” I said, before I hung up on him.
40 years of voting for Democrats and it comes to this.
Jello is nonpartisan.
Yep.
What matters — the gutting of the social safety net — isn’t even a consideration in this fiasco. Fuckers are going to do it no matter what.
MSNBC is showing a very tight, unflattering shot of Boehner.
CNN is showing a less tight, more flattering shot.
Obama has to be the most incompetent politician I’ve ever seen. He can never seem to produce a single policy that either forwards any goal of his base or leaves him in a better position politically. Who the hell decides to definitely cut the safety net in a Depression one year before a major election and only offers some bullshit aspirational tax increase on the rich? How in any semblance of common sense was he going to sell this to his voters? It’s just so asinine it’s beyond words. Even a 1st week politician wouldn’t do something so stupid.
Do we really think there won’t be some kind of deal that screws SSMM? Like someone said up thread, there could very well be a buzzer shot to screw us all. I’m hoping they don’t get a deal and then on Aug 3, Obama invokes the 14th. Then they can impeach him, bitch at him or whatever. He is unelectable after this display of compassion.
I got the same thing from John Kerry’s receptionist. She didn’t take it well when I disagreed… She hung up on me. Twice. Then stopped answering the phone ; ) It’s the little things in life that make me happy.
It’s been 26 years for me, and this really is the lowest point. My students look at me like I’m crazy when I say that–it shouldn’t feel so isolating, but it is. Nice to hear this sentiment from someone else.
IF, and that’s a big IF…
this were all kabuki and they were going to do something rather drastic and unpopular, like cutting SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, but wanted it to appear as though they had no choice, because the ENTIRE US ECONOMY might collapse if we defaulted, then this “walkout” would be part of the plan. It makes it look like default is a very real possibility, and we’re now less than two weeks away so the final votes will have to take place in the middle of the night on August 2nd….. just in time to save the ENTIRE US ECONOMY. Too bad it had to come to cutting popular programs. Another sort of gun at their heads (like the TARP vote) made them do it.
I’m not saying, I’m just sayin’
Yep, like I said. Often. Seen. Here.
Not we. We have no one in the WH who represents the interests of the vast majority of the American people. We have only two different puppet parties dancing to the tune of the corporate and banking elite.
They are vying as to which party will administer shock doctrine on America. This was all foreshadowed by the way the two parties marched lockstep with the military-industrial complex on war and torture. They deserve their fates. We don’t.
My suspicion is that the (original) kabuki is over.
Could be wrong, have been before.
i am impressed (for the moment) in the way president obama has done this final negotiation:
have his party make, for them, drastic concessions
creating the expectation that republicans should, in fairness and good faith, follow suit on revenue,
and, when they do not, holding them responsible for failing to meet the prez and his party half-way.
if he comes away with an adequate boost in the debt ceiling, and nothing more, i will consider this a great victory for him and the nation.
but all that has not happened yet, and i don’t trust obama at all because he has displayed no loyalty to any democratic principle i can think of.
let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope the nation gets out of this completely unnecessary political crisis with an adequate boost in the debt
ceiling and nothing damaging to the economy in addition.
How many deficit reduction plans did Bush need to agree to for lifting cap on debt?
Zero, nota, zip.
The Repugs are so vile.
Today, is a sad day for white America.
Along comes America’s first ‘racial and ethnic’ President, and he gets evisorated by the Right. And as such, Pelosi and Reid didn’t hold his feet to the fire, by explaining to Obama that in accepting the canards from the Right, must be addressed effectively and which Obama, Reid and Pelosi, failed collectively. And Biden fell flat on his face, after having sucked too much ass.
As an aside, the House Progessive Caucus attempted to forestall this American misfortune of a poltical contretemp, with their Peoples Budget. And of course, without a Progressive Caucus in the Senate, white America, can no longer see itself for having any inkling of a Progressive Schematic and in which this lack of a prudent behavior can be laid at the feet of all Democratic Senators in Congress.
Conversely, for the past 70 plus years, there was never such vitriol expressed for a “clean bill” on the Debt Ceiling, by either a Democrat or a Republican, but Obama brought it out among the elderly white folks in Congress. And yet, I can hear everyone denying that it WAS NOT about “bigotry and race.” And in the future, “racial and ethnic” historians will be writing reams and digitals about this “sad day” for America.
Now, be kind to yourself in your whining and complaining, given that this “muck-race” is going to increase the voting behavior among America’s “racial and ethnics” in their voting for Obama’s re-election. Consequently, Obama got what he wanted, Boehner and McConnell got what they wanted, and the Democratic “base” meaning “racial and ethnics” got what they wanted, inadvertently.
Jaango
That is where is seems like it is going.
David Gregory just said today’s breakdown in talks was ‘stunning’ considering there was a grand Bargain on the table this morning.
I simply note that 1) Obama waited until the markets closed to kick the negotiators out of the White House and 2) they are all invited back tomorrow morning.
This is ALL silly kabuki. Worse than kabuki, it’s Punch & Judy.
Even if he never intended that outcome?
Maybe but the word is out there that the whole thing is a sham and if that gets widespread they will all look like assholes, Obama numero uno.
I’m with you.
In response to jaaango @ 63
My apologies for not being very smart, but what does this mean???
Yes, and when naming the villains, “corporate jets,” oil and gas executives, Barry left off “Wall Street and hedge fund managers.”
Two sets of folks who are competing for the same pot of Wall Street cash don’t kabuki very well. Eric Cantor’s walkout presaged the end of the kabuki stage. This has now gotten personal.
The final votes in my estimation will come on August 3 or 4. The question is how far down the road the Congress kicks the debt ceiling can. The GOP is going to try to put it as close to the election as possible and Democrats are going to want to put it into 2013.
The Republicans save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. That’s how bad Obama is. Who woulda thunk it?
Except this puts the House Republicans in charge, no? They determine what can pass the House.
My fingers are sore from crossing them for this asshole.
AFAIK, another part of this is Barry taking a bullet (unilaterally raising the debt limit) for Senate Dems.
Not to mention “elected and appointed officials who make multiple times the median family income”.
That is what folks are really, truly angry about in this “shared sacrifice” debate. Of the folks who are negotiating, none of their salary and perqs are on the table.
The 3rd party, such as it is, are the 50 or 60 allegedly progressive House Dems, who let us down on the public option.
“We” as in the country as a whole Jeff. In that sense “we” really do have an idiot in the WH. Even for a pol whose only interest is serving his well-heeled donors, this colossal fuck-up does nothing for them or for anyone else either.
O created a huge trap for himself, then walked into it of his own free will. O counted on the usual establishment duopoly jointly fucking over the public as usual. He did not count on the Teapers holding the Rep side to account. Meanwhile the Progressive Caucus meekly waited on the sidelines for whatever crumbs might fall to them. They are pathetic. The Teapers may be crazy and destructive, but damn, they are effective.
It means jaaango has had one too many …..
you’re right jawbone…those squirrely Dems can’t be trusted! I can’t believe I’m cheering for the goddam Repubs, but in this case, you betcha’ Hold the line Boehner and force the 14th!
Thank god. I thought it was me.
I agree with Glen Ford at Black Agenda Report. Pray for gridlock. Gridlock may be the best way to emerge with a clean debt limit increase with no cuts to Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
The main reason I remain a registered Democrat is so that I have the opportunity to rant at them when they call me and knock on my door.
The deal is done. They are all playing fake circular firing squad…for our vast entertainment and manipulation.
Yeah. That’s among a very small handful of ways this could go at this point. And probably the likeliest.
The other spin that seems to keep coming out here is the excuse that the ratings agencies have ordered Obama to cut spending and apparently Obama reports to them and not to us.
I will eat my words if Barry announces that the Bush cuts will expire and that nothing involving Medicare and Social Security have been touched….cough.
How does what you just said make any sort of sense?
The Republicans have a TRACK RECORD of being obstructionist since Obama hit office. Republicans are on record saying they want to make him a one-term president.
Even if you think NOBODY is paying attention, of course somebody is. If he goes 14th Admin on them, guess what? They can spend the next 6 months trying to impeach him, how well did that work out for them the last time they tried it?
Even if he shuts down the Government, the Republicans especially the Tea Party won’t escape blame, all the blame.
Over 60% of the polled nation wants a balanced deal, if the Republicans only want to cut, cut, cut, who looks worst in that debate = Republicans.
So as I said, how on earth do you come to the conclusion that even Seniors when the AARP is running ads against the Republican Party?
Are you even paying attention???
Agree, the timing certainly appears to confirm that Wall Street is driving the discussion. They want to cut the Big 3, but they don’t want to get any closer to Aug 2 to do it.
I agree with Max Keiser and Dylan Ratigan, we should DEFAULT on the debt so we can restructure the debt because there we will never fully pay it back and this country will never run with a truly balanced budget, the math to the banking sector just doesn’t make any sense. They like debt remember? Its debt that crashed the economy and bailed them out.
Socializing the looses, Privatizing the Profits = American Way
Obama was prepared to sacrifice us and he got slapped right in the face by his Republican Buddy. The Repubs even called the press to tell them the deal was off before they called Obama. He crawled on his belly to try to get them to call him today but they brushed him off most of the day. Now he has us pissed at him and his “friends across the isle” could not have made it clear enough that they don’t want anything to do with him. What is it going to take to get this guy some spine and a brain??
Watch the movie, Inside Job. It’s all you need to know.
“We can’t let up.” “This isn’t over.” Agreed. Did y’all catch the 0 describing us as a bunch of “activists” and a “special interest?” Yeah, I got your “special interest” right here! I’m interested in you not stealing money that I’ve deposited in the SS trust fund so you can give it to your $16 Trillion Geithner crime spree. I repeat: Who is DEFAULTING who? Why won’t anyone say it? They are DEFAULTING on us so that they won’t default their banker friends.
They’re probably laughing and having drinks together right now!
I understand jaango’s point. Read it again. Low information Democrats and Independents will be fooled – feel sorry for Obama, believing that Obama’s best intentions are for them. Obama is being punished b/c he is half African. No President ever suffered such poor treatment over a debt ceiling. Why Obama? Ergo, minorities will rally to his aid with their votes for Obama.
Of course, the truth is that Obama is shedding crocodile tears. The debt ceiling could have been settled when O had D majorities in both houses.
If not then, surely when Obama gave the R’s the Bush Tax Cuts for nothing in return.
All Theatre. All The Time. Obama.
That’s a great way to put it, they are indeed defaulting on us.
Makes no sense what you just said, you sure you’re not drinking?
Have you completely forgotten Republican Obstructionism? The reasons why turnout was LOW for the mid terms was because it ALWAYS is for one thing, the other reason was disappointment with the health care deal that FD loved so much, how far as that gotten you guys?
All we ask is for the Dems to fight. If they don’t want to fight, we need to find people that do. Alan Grayson is a good start.
Why do I get the impression that this country is being lead by a bunch of badly parented two year olds ?
Right on! Max is my favorite economist. When asked how should we handle this “crisis” he said quite simply “Hang some bankers.” Then he added: “Seriously, we are not enforcing the laws that are already on the books. Just enforce them and that will take care of the problem.”
Are you saying FD(L) loved the healthcare plan? If so, you are hallucinating.
That’s why I say default on the debt, why not? The Banks will take it on the chin, Citi will likely go down and take either B of A or JPMC down with it.
Would be the best thing to happen to America in a very long time. We’re never going to repay the debt anyway, who’s under that grand illusion? Have you zeroed out your credit cards, car loan and house payments? I think not, why do you expect the Government to pay all its bills to completion?
It Just Won’t Happen!
This is so true to what my heart is telling me. The real goal of much of the white and the sell out few black Republicans, along with a portion of white Democrats in both the House & Senate is to so humiliate and make a failure of Barack Obama that the country will eschew electing another black President for at least 100 years….
But I also believe Obama is playing right into their hands with his ‘Great Compromisor” routine….
CNN and MSNBC opened their 8:00 ET shows with the headlines that “Boehner walks out,” headline. That’s a win for POTUS, especially coming from CNN.
Loved enough to say pass it anyway, I said TRASH THE THING and make the Republicans EAT IT.
OldFatGuy@69
mjocaj@79
econobuzz@81
Thanks guys, you make it easy for me.
Obama just got himself re-elected.
Regardless, should any of you come out to the Sonoran Desert, the first cold one is on me.
Jaango
Shelia Bair was prevented from doing her job, case closed and she’s a Republican!
And now, even if Obama is stopped from his evil plan to eviserate the safety net, the Republicans have ammunition ads pre election all set to go, about his willingness to cut SSMM.
We’re screwed, either by Obama or the Republicans. Some choice
Forget the “grand bargain”, Obama. You’ve already sold your soul and expect the leased souls at the Capitol and the rest of us poor souls to go along with it, marching to perdition.
Getting us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and reducing the pentagon budget would achieve a savings of nearly 400 billion dollars over the 10 year period all these games are about. There’s a lot of other waste. And a raise in taxation for the top 2% of only 3% would not even be noticed in any real way in their lives, nor in the “job creation” game.
Funny thing about the rich. Had the wealthy in America in 1776 not risked fortunes for the revolution, we would never have gotten off the ground. States didn’t pay for the militias and armies, local well-to-dos did, and, of course, they then got to be Colonels and Generals in our revolution. But they knew that they would get something back in return if it succeeded. Today’s rich ignore what all they get from this country.
That’s kind of where I’m coming from.
I swear to me they look so much like badly parented two year olds that they must TRYING to look that way. Sort of like the old saying “He doth protest too much.”
It wouldn’t surprise me to see another walkout next Friday, after which nearly everyone then believes there’s going to be a default, after which the Dow plummets (just like during the TARP vote) after which, voila, they really had no choice. The entire US economy was going to collapse so they HAD to settle for all cuts, no revenues, including cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid. They just couldn’t help it, darn it.
Start watching at about 7 minutes in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ExgvmayTo&feature=related
This is about Obama/financial crisis, etc., not 9/11
Given the choice between another nut case from the right and another corporate owned Black Man (NFL, MLB and NBA players included), I would vote for Republican Light over Bat-Shit Crazy, Racist, Reactionary idiots.
Jeff, you nailed it in two short paragraphs! Brilliant! This country is suffering from corporate rot from the top down and both parties were/are facilitators of that rot. Are we doomed to taking our grievances to the street like our Greek and Egyptian friends or will we simply abide the moment of crisis and pray that it will resolve itself without our participation?
You may disagree with phred, but I saw no evidence of any lack of clarity. The comment about drinking was completely uncalled for.
I’m familiar with phred’s lucid, passionate and informed comments. I wouldn’t want to get shredded by someone that intelligent and witty.
He who is willing to destroy a thing can control a thing Obama was willing to be controlled but not destroyed completely and totally at least not today Sat we shall see what Obama surrenders next to make a deal.
I disagree. FDL did not support that bill.
But I think he’s under estimating the risk he’s taking with boomers who mostly have not yet started to receive Social Security or Medicare but who are very much into retirement planning and paying close attention for the first time to the DETAILS on benefits. My retirement is not your bargaining chip, Mr. President and I am reading the fine print … well I will it gets out of the smoke filled room.
He better start worrying about HIGH INFORMATION soon to retire voters because we vote in huge numbers.
O-bots can take comfort in this being a brilliant 11-dimension rope-a-dope move as much as they want. These things are clear:
1. The Republicans won the battle when Obama attached the debt ceiling to deficit reduction. It never has been before.
2. It’s incredibly narcissistic for Obama to say he “was willing to take heat from his base” by putting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid on the table. This isn’t about him, it’s about old people, sick people, and poor people. How selfless of him to be willing to put those people “on the table”.
3. A Democratic President framed SS, Medicare and Medicaid as “entitlements” and you can be assured they will be “on the table” in the future.
4. The debt ceiling deal isn’t done yet. Spending cuts without tax increases have been legitimized, and the Republicans are coming to the White House to “negotiate” on that tomorrow. The Democrats offered the bullies their entire lunch, and will apparently now view giving him only half as a victory.
5. The Republicans caved on nothing but some vague and amorphous “revenue enhancements” (not tax increases). The Democrats caved on everything up to including health care for the old and the poor.
6. Contractionary economic policy was an unbelievably stupid mission in the first place anyway, when “official” unemployment is ~9-10%.
7. Giving the Republicans 99% of what they wanted and blaming them for insisting on 100% is not good leadership. There needed to be an alternative vision pushed that would actually work.
Stupidity was stopped by insanity. Three cheers for Obama.
A question if I might, djfourmoney, who or what is the “FD” which you mention?
Just so you understand, phred’s comment was lucid, factual, and essentially spot-on, by my lights.
Might I suggest, if “FD” turns out to be FireDogLake, that you would be very wise to have some links, because I do NOT recall the lake being at all happy with “the health care deal”, and I rather doubt that many others here, if any, will agree with your “take”.
DW
Because it’s Louis XIV syndrome. A bunch of spoiled brat growing up thinking the world is their private little play thing. Notice how the “upward mobility ladder ” is shredded so that the world remains their little private preserve. You don’t get the “best and the brightest” this way. What you get are narcisstic sociopaths who don’t have a clue and know only one behavior: dominating anyway they can. A moral conscience is considered something for us lower level beings.
Once again, no crisis shall not be put to good use. Keep ratcheting up the pressure so that in the end some horrible deal will be passed and cause the American people to get screwed. “They had no choice!”
How many times do we need to see this play out?
Are you serious, they just figured it out right now that the Republicans are unwilling to raise taxes? So what, were we negotiating solely with ourselves up to this point? What masterful negotiations. Obama has got to go.
I’m still at a complete loss, so I’ll bow out now.
FWIW it was a sincer question, I really didn’t understand what was being said. And still don’t. It’s all going way over my head.
THanks for the offer of a beer. If I ever get out that way I’ll take you up on it! I like beer!!
You’re nuts. Here’s Kill The Bill 1
x2
I happen to agree with you. Fighting that battle right now doesn’t appear to be very constructive. People need to vent. No one here is sending Barry any money. Once we get close to November 2012, I will probably be groveling, asking FDLers in swing states to join me in holding their noses and voting for Barry. IMHO, asking people to work with the local and state Democratic parties might be a better use of my time.
What you do, is obviously up to you.
FDL officially opposed passage of the health care bill. Sorry I can’t find a link (because I suck at searches and don’t know how to find old threads here) but I’m pretty sure of my memory on this one.
Jane took a lot of heat for formally being against it’s passage.
And I personally was, am, and forever will be against that piece of shit bill.
Anytime the DOW drops like a rock, that means something good is about to happen for the rest of us. As Sheila Bair said recently, she could have took down all the banks in trouble with the FDIC, but like we can’t increase taxes on the Rich and we always get BS like they pay 41% of the taxes or something, we can’t force them to take on massive loses like in the movie Trading Places.
They would die on the spot, jump out of windows, commit suicide, etc. Wow like the ’29 crash. Fuck Bankers!
So your 401K goes up in smoke, okay that’s a downside but I can almost see the Government responding to that, if it had let the banks fail and had FDIC do its job.
There’s plenty of regulation on the books, it just needs to be enforced, its not. Trusting lying ratings agencies? Are you kidding me? FRAUD, nothing but MASSIVE FRAUD, FORECLOSURE FRAUD, all of it is just plain FRAUD.
Agree with you there, FRAUD.
I can hear the Argentinian tumbao! I’m starting to think this maybe the only way out. However, there are those on the far right that would exploit it and make the whole thing even uglier. I am praying for peaceful change but what is the old saying? Was it JFK who said, “It always the ruling class that creates the conditions for revolution.”
In the past these people were called nobles, aristocrats and robber barons now we call them politicians
Ah, so that is the reason you don’t want Jane to run for the Presidency.
I understand, now, Boo, really I do.
;~DW
You’re absolutely correct. Without a public option, Obamacare enabled the health insurance oligopoly to lock in even more profits: they could force the middle class to buy lousy coverage. The health insurance oligopoly wrote the effing bill. They can still declare pre-existing conditions, which takes all the risk out of their business plan and “socializes” it onto the taxpayers.
See the Left relies on Intelligence, BOOK SMARTS not Street Smarts. The Okie Doke wouldn’t have happen in the hood, you get my meaning jack? Common Sense tells you not to bail out the banks, but they did it and what was the result? It was predictable, my rep Brad Sherman didn’t vote for the bailout BOTH TIMES, didn’t even need to call him.
Socializing Loses, Privatizing Debt, that is the new American Way.
Obama isn’t going to loose to some wacko from the Right, unless you are just nuts and stay home. Its your fault that we don’t have a Dem running against Obama anyway.
What kind of party is this? The one that panders to the Black Community every four years? While we’ve had an unemployment problem for 60 years and a Prison Industrial Complex that seeks profit by putting anybody in jail, but especially Black Men.
The political system is BROKEN, corrupted by MONEY. Too many are scared to push the reset button on this country. It sorely needs it and I don’t need some college educated White Dude/Woman to tell me what I said was uncalled for when his post didn’t make any sense and the goats did’t understand it either.
Perhaps if you read more slowly and carefully you would better grasp the meaning of the words before you.
The debt ceiling could have been settled when O and D had majorities in both Houses.
I have two words to say to you: Kent Conrad. Chair of the Senate Budget Committee. (Also Max Baucus, chair of the Senate Finance Committee). Remember. The ACA was funneled through Baucus’s Gang of Six, Conrad’s mantra was the votes aren’t there, and reconciliation required signoff of the Senate Budget Committee. Conrad held the ACA hostage to get the Catfood Commission. And Conrad has been the prime mover on pushing a Grand Bargain. Finally, Conrad was from a red state that saw a Republican elected when Byron Dorgan retired in 2010. And Conrad himself announced his retirement at the first of this year. After helping put this deficit-hawk nonsense on the table. Guess his attempt to wrap himself in elephant skin didn’t work.
There are no bigger assholes than US Senators, especially ones who have been there a long enough time to chair something. And when they are politically vulnerable, they can extort lots of stuff in order to keep the seat. And when they chair Finance or Budget or Appropriations, they are particularly overbearing. They are the ones who hold the power of the purse. And if they have gotten that far, they are not afraid to use it. Especially against some weak whippersnapper who just lucked out when the economy melted down and got elected President.
These are passionate, self-important people, not robots.
In fact, Ironcomments, most of history is virtually the same story, repeated over and over. The Haves and the Have-mores ruthlessly having their way with everyone and everything else.
Those attracted to big money and big power should never be allowed either, by the rest of us.
At some point. the species will either wake up to that fact… or simply not exist anymore.
Period.
DW
As I remember it, they said they didn’t like it BUT PASS IT ANYWAY.
I said it SUCKED, Jane then replied to me saying, but its a start and the expansion of medicaid will helps millions.
Fine, but that doesn’t change today. At 40 and unemployed, I don’t qualify for Medical in California. So god forbid something serious happens, my parents won’t let me die but go into massive debt making sure I live.
That screams of a peacemeal bullshit deal, if going for Single Payer meant the whole thing would go down in flames, fine. Guess what? The base would have asked “Tell us what to do it get it passed?” and “We’ll get it done!”
Its okay to rant and rave about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and then compare the struggle for equality to 300 years of Slavery and Racism, GIVE ME A F’ BREAK.
But the 80% of real live people out there that want VALUE for their tax dollars were totally disregarded by OBAMA. Thats all the R’s needed to do- let him brag about the sacred cow of US that he arrogantly wanted to trash- he owns it now and even the old lady R’s know it. The R seniors need SS too.
Boehner won-set up. Obama is indeed the bad guy. He won’t win another election now.. was it planned- or is he truly that arrogant?
I find myself rooting for Republican intransigence. No way do I want Obama to achieve his grand
bargainsellout.As I said no College Degree, you’ll have to do better than that. I made no sense to me, you basically said in my estimation that, Weep, Obama is going to loose in 2012 because he’s played ball with the Reich Wing, only to fail and made a fool in the media.
We’re clearly not watching the same TV program and I’m seriously about to shut off MSNBC for good after what they tried to pull with Cenk.
Jane went on FOX News to side with the tea partiers over opposing the bill! Haven’t you heard of the term “firebagger”?
ETA:
I think you’re thinking of Daily Kos, not FDL.
They just seem tone deaf about how real people think. If I need a hip replacement and he’s willing to raise the Medicare eligibility age — leaving me without healthcare when the job ends before the Medicare begins — why would I give a damn that he balanced my crippled hip with a tax on corporate jets.
Nothing good is going to happen from any of this. They’ll just smack each other publicly with wet noodles and then announce the deal…and the country will go ^&**&&*&^%**( for a couple of days and then a new series of American Idol will start and more missing children will go more missing, and the sheeple and lemmings will just walk right off the cliff.
Uh no, Obama is quite responsible for that. Democrats loose low turnout elections and Obama de-energized his base. Remember, just a week before the election the AG started talking up how he was going to bust pot users? That cratered the youth turnout. When the 0 did some youth meets that is all he heard. They were all asking WTF? This on the heels of health care mash-up and the bogus Dodd-Frank. Dems don’t show up at the polls when they feel shitty about their own party. The WH is making a huge miscalculation. I predict, all things being equal as they are now: The lowest percentage turnout in fifty years unless there is a third party run.
.
LOL, THD.
Do you REALLY think he’ll loose and to whom? Mitt Romney? are you fucking serious? Even the Lame Stream media will tear him up on his “Job Creator” status. In a country with close to 20% real unemployment they are going to listen to guy that made it his business to keep the management of failed companies or give them a Gold Parachute, only to fire the workers????
This is how you get elected? Okay Rick Scott is a criminal in Florida but I just don’t see how the entire country and certainly NOT CALIFORNIA would vote for any of the moose twits on the Republican ticket.
That’s what I’m thinking….the agitated attacks on other people’s ideas on the thread is typical of KOS people, not FDL people.
KOS did do that and that’s why I don’t read that tripe anymore. I don’t watch Fox News for fear of throwing something at the TV or marching down to Fox Studios in Los Angeles and blowing it up, Capisce?
Yes NSA I said BLOW UP, come and get me.
Sloganeering like “Winning the Future” and other propaganda that promotes continuous expansion and exploitation of human labor and limited resources seems to be the only M.O. our leaders know even in the face of their own demise.
Sorry to learn of your truly frightening plight, djfourmoney, and of the jeopardy it places your family in.
Hmm, another question: Who is “they”?
And you surely remember things differently from what I recall, but it may be that I missed something.
When did this “exchange” with Jane occur?
If the “they” is understood, by you, to be the majority of commenters, then I suspect many memories will conflict, substantially with yours.
Understand, I agree with a number of your assessments of what has been done to the people of this nation, yet, our memories do not agree regarding FDL and the “position” relative to “health care” shared by the majority of commenters.
DW
Don’t worry. They don’t care about you. (They, as in NSA..)
A man of few words, OFG :-)
I do and I remember him coming after the Left Bloggers too. I voted, I make no excuses.
We had the extra incentive to not allow eMeg become Governor.
Well said.
Americans won’t be voting FOR anyone in 2012. They’ll be voting AGAINST someone and the ones they usually vote against are the ones in office. Americans are either mad as hell or so demoralized they won’t vote at all. Obama’s done nothing on jobs. He’s got 3 wars going no one wants to fight. He’s become mired in bankster speech most of the time. I mean he talks about “ordinary folks” but all he tells them is that they have to share the sacrifice with a bankster (HA) and eat their peas.
I’m Black are you insane, they do care = Prison Population
You wrote: “….The one that panders to the Black Community every four years?….. ”
Can you expand on this?
OldFatGuy@69
My apologies, for my less than forthcoming explanation.
With 70 plus years of history, it was only when Obama became President, that even the trivial, becomes “serious” and the debt ceiling is trivial when viewed from any historical perspective. What’s been interesting to me to this date certain, is the use of the 14th Amendment. And that’s why Clinton’s comments resonated with me. To wit, Obama has been following the Clinton Playbook to such perfection, you would think that Obama created the Clintons, but then, both are neo-liberals and are no slouchs for being America’s first two Black Presidents. As such, having a Progressive Caucus in the Senate, should be the focal point for the politics for “racial and ethnics” and not the person,i.e., Obama and Clinton.
Jaango
Fair enough.
So true, only I don’t think its much miscalculation. How could you screw everyone and hang around? His road is probably paved with gold. He has done everything for them, not us.
Ok. No, I’m not insane…oh wait, that’s what one says when one is…I mean..oh nevermind. Peace.
Ok. I’m 100% positive Jane opposed the HCR bill that passed because it really is a huge giveaway to the insurance industry and doesn’t address the core problems. My own opposition to it was what led me here. :)
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. We’ll see how it plays out soon enough. I just don’t see the political downside for what Boehner is doing. Additionally, he doesn’t seem tense about this. If anything, he seems cocky, at least if those reports about the games with the phone calls is true. Obama appears to be undercutting himself every which way.
Yes. Who trusts him? We need a leader for the people.
Jeb Bush must be planning a re-emergence?
It doesn’t matter what Obama “says” or what he looks like, i.e., a fool or whatever anyone’s interpretation is. He said he was content to be a one-term president. Period. The deal is done. His job is over. Next in line…?
That would get a “ding”. He needs to do it before Babs reaches the inability for any reason to witness it.
Indeedy so, Ironcomments, the MOTU have a very limited range of possible behaviors, being, essentially such small and fearful beings, they are reduced to swagger, intimidatiion and fearmongering.
And “that” is about it, along with clever calculating deceit, and you will note that NONE of them ever contribute even the slightest thing of value, they make nothing, they build nothing, and their greatest pleasure, beyond “accumulating” obscene wealth is destruction and the torture of those whom they consider lesser beings.
Ah, well, perhaps this will become a “thing” of the past.
It certainly does not suggest much of a future, however much “looking forward” is done.
DW
of course!
president obama’s intentions are irrelevant if the nation gets an adequate boost in the debt ceiling. that is all that we needed in the first place.
but that has not happened yet.
let’s keep our fingers crossed it does.
then, thank god, we’ll be back to square one (or kansas).
Eh, I just saw on FOX news them saying that Obama’s still way more popular than any of the Republicans.
That it will become a thing of the past is the only certainty.
x2
Close to the election there will most likely be others rolled out that have not appeared yet and have, therefore, not yet “peaked”….that would include Jeb Bush, Liz Cheney, Gov Goodhair, and a few others…
And..there is always Petraeus…
I think his intentions are quite relevant if he believes, as it appears he does, that Shock Doctrine is the way to prosperity.
See, I think they’re going to have to stay away from the Bush crowd for a decade or more. But yeah, someone more popular very well might rise up.
Are you trying to rewrite history? I suggest you read the following.
Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill
One would think so…however, some of this stuff is “arranged” decades in advance, or so it seems….corporate money talks..and they are making out like gangbusters…er…I mean criminals…
Do.
Not.
Engage.
;-)
:P
Heh. I see your conspiracy theorizing and raise you a “but Obama is the biggest Wall Street whole of them all, and shock doctrine would *never* fly under a repub prez. Ergo, Obama FTW 2012?”
I’ll bring the mescal . . . you fire up some venison over mesquite.
*G*
I thought your comment was fine, read it twice to be sure . . .
*G*
Obama telling Blacks to “Eat Their Pees” at the 2009 NAACP Convention.
Oh I forgot the Dems don’t pander to us, they consider us an automatic vote.
As somebody very smart said “The Black Agenda is the American Agenda”
Fix Racism, zero tolerance and many of these issues would get solved.
When they lowered loan standards for homes, who were they aiming at? Then who took the blame when the house of cards came down? I remember a few CNBC anchors say “Those People” got homes they couldn’t afford, when stories of predatory lending started in 2005. Shelia Bair even said complaints started to roll in early 2007.
When Obama is confronted by a Black Journalist about the unemployment rate of Black America, he gives that tired “Tides Raises All Boats” nonsense. If that EVER worked, historically unemployment in areas populated with people of color wouldn’t be double the national average.
Sorry but you can’t blame that all on the embrace of a crime culture, drugs, lazy work habits, Colored People’s Time (always late) or any other canard you want to use. Last hired, First Fired, is always the case and remains to this day.
But some Americans fear and rightly so since the Government has been hell bent on crushing the middle class since the early 70′s, that giving any advantages to Black America without giving to others would be unfair.
That’s why FREE EDUCATION FOR ALL WOULD BENEFIT EVERYBODY.
That’s why SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE WOULD BENEFIT EVERYBODY.
Proper funding of Education would benefit everybody
But ESPECIALLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, do you get my drift?
So accepting trash policy should be unacceptable, PERIOD.
Don’t feel sorry for me, don’t agree with fucked up policy. The Republicans always get mostly what they want, while the Left always has to be happy with a 1/3 of what they asked for.
How many examples do you want? Banking Reform, Health Care Reform, etc, etc.
Removing any Anti-gay framework from the Government has no political downside, why he was so slow on it, I have no idea.
But they call him a Socialist Pro Black (Half Black actually) President of Black People.
That’s news to us. Of course they are lying but what else is new?
I’ve always said, if they are going to name call anyway, go ahead and be Progressive, but Shelby Steel warned us on Bill Moyers that Obama is consolatory and like most Elite Blacks is a Leading Black, not a Black Leader. Gotta appease the White Man, yes sir. Make him feel comfortable. See Jessie Jackson didn’t understand this, he’s old school or as Steel called him a “Challenger”; “Prove me your not racist!”
In this “post racial” society we call “Amerikkka” Obama has stay to the Right of the argument otherwise some Americans WRONGLY would assume he’s giving Nergos and leg up and no help to the rest of needy America.
That’s why bullshit like Foreclosure Prevention Policy wasn’t going to work. It was underfunded, had too many loop holes for the banks to weasel out of and doesn’t solve the core problem, making the banks swallow the loses.
You can disagree with some stuff I say I suppose but the TRUTH is, this is a racist country and until it one day its NOT, then no equality will happen, not even people that successfully navigate the system, because to many people in America, you’re a N****. If your Rich, your a Rich N****.
If being a Rich N**** being Puffy (or Russell Simmons), then so be it. You rather be Bill Gates rich? He’s rich but he’s still a dork/geek. Puffy has stolen people’s girlfriends from them, that’s being a PLAYER for real and those girls are hoes but that’s another thread.
Oh yes. LOL A placeholder possibly too. Only time will tell. But if one looks at everything that has happened over the past decade and continues to happen…well..the writing is pretty much on the wall, along with the spaghetti.
Nah, they were assholes then, they are assholes now.
;-)
Ok.
Have you read “Slavery by another name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II?”
Also have you read the latest biography of Malcolm X: “A Life of Re-invention?”
Tell the truth.
The People’s Budget is never mention (well almost never). Okay Sam Seder said something about it but Dylan didn’t want to get into a pie throwing contest with Pataki who tried to seem like the moderate Republican HE ISN’T.
You are outrageous and hilarious. I’m with you on this.
No, he’s right. The “fake progressive” doublecrossing really does hit the black community 10 times harder than it does (most of) the white. And the Dems still consider it a given that they’ll get the black vote. I’d be mad as hell if I were black, too.
ETA:
Ah…see yer edit now. :).
Yeah.
Not in TOTAL, but Jane did reply to me saying it was important to get the additional Medicaid coverage for the 30M or so that would be covered, not until 2014 of course and still leaving about 25M (now larger I’m sure) without any sort of help at all.
We normally call such bullshit HALF ASSED
See my 188. He’s right.
I don’t know what happened between your communications with Jane…but on the other stuff…you’re pretty much telling it like it is.
For the first time in the history of out country citizens were FORCED to purchase an insurance product for health coverage. N trust me, this is NOT like drivers insurance . . . it’s theft of the highest order.
You HAVE to be misremembering or something. Jane and 99% of the folks here considered a bill without a public option worse than doing nothing. I would not be here if that weren’t the case.
*engage*
[trollscroll2.1]
*runnostop*
In June 2010, Jane drew a line in the sand, the public option. She got destroyed from the left. They all said she was selling out single payer. Jane calmly responded she wanted single-payer too, but didn’t think it had the votes.
Fast forward six months and single payer is gone and then at the end, Barry gave away the public option. At that point, at the end, Jane withdrew her support. At that moment, she was the only one left standing on the left against Obamacare. All those who had lambasted her about single payer had caved on it and on the public option.
The comment she made to you may have been from prior to the time when it was known that the public option no longer would be part of the final bill.
Not yet…
djfourmoney, you will find no one, here, who disagrees with the essential truth of what you say.
Here, you will find allies, if you choose to listen and interact as if those of us here are reasonable and thoughtful human beings.
The Black community is ill-served by Obama, as it has been by MOST of the political class, but so too have virtually every other “community” which is not rich and filled with the hubris of “success” when, in truth, such “success” has come at the cost of civil society.
Among the things you did not mention is the ongoping destruction of the rule of law. However, I’m rather certain that you well know, already, how that “plays out”, as do members of other “minority” communitites.
Consider this a community where you might find welcome and support, should you care to join with it, in the consideration our common plight and the honest search for decent, human solution..
DW
*pointsmyfingerathead*
*twirlsfinger*
*makesweirdface*
;-)
dj, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9F_J_sbeU8
They’re baaaaaack……Senator Catfood on MSNBC still hasn’t given up. He’s going to chase granny around with that bus all weekend to be sure she’s under it when the deal is struck.
The deal is struck which is why they aren’t talking anymore…probably gonna play golf or something productive like that.
phred and I have never met, but from reading phred’s comments over the years, I know phred is an ardent opponent of white supremacy. It’s not phred’s fault that phred’s really, really smart.
I prefer the term white supremacist to “racist.” The white supremacists love to throw the racism charge back on the descendants of the slaves.
I also think the use of the terms “white,” and “black,” is really unhelpful. In the history of the US in addition to imported African slaves, “white supremacy,” systematically targeted among others, Jews/semitic peoples, Irish, Polish, Italians, and Spanish. It hasn’t caught on yet, but I think the goals you so understandably embrace are better served by using the term “ethnicity” over “race.” I also think it’s worthwhile to consider 100% European-American. That’s the problem. So much of our leadership has such a stunning lack of ethnic diversity.
Apologies if this is not helpful.
That’s likely correct, it was before Obama assaulted Kucinich for being the LONE hold out.
The point is this country is seriously broken, anybody that pays as much attention to Casey Anthony or the Balloon Boy and only about 50% voter turnout on average is shameful.
Most have opted to navigate the system the best way they can even if that includes a life of crime.
It has to CRASH for it to be rebuilt. I almost ready to let the Right run it into the ground, it would only be short term pain because once Stupid America realizes that the Right will throw them under the bus too, we might finally come to an understanding to remove money from the elections.
“Slavery by another name,” won the Pulitzer for history in 2009.
I haven’t read the new biography yet, but the New York Times review was stunning. According to it, the real disagreement between the honorable Elijah Mohammed and Malcolm was over Los Angeles police assassination inside a Mosque. According to the review of the book, Malcolm wanted to put out contracts on the L.A. police officers who perpetrated the murders. Hon. E. Mohammed did not.
Well, dj, if you expect me to disagree with you regarding this particular buch of comments, you shall be most disappointed.
You would fit right in here, seriously
Perhaps you should consider visiting more often or even joining in, daily?
DW
I reject that I only have those two choices.
I’ll be writing in Bernie Sanders. I’m not voting for bad or worse anymore.
A one-eyed person is King in the world of the blind. All a crash would is further strengthen the top 1%, who already control everything.
One key for me is the engine of U.S. meritocracy, the Patent Office. Right now the Patent Office is so weak, that unregulated monopolies and oligopolies can block or steal any patents they want. Then they follow the Steve Jobs plan at Apple. Offshore the manufacture of the products to the People’s Republic of China and other foreign countries who tolerate child labor and what’s essentially slave labor.
Capitalism relies on the laws of Supply and DEMAND. That requires a thriving middle class to drive DEMAND. When too much money concentrates at the top, DEMAND evaporates and the economy goes into a death spiral. Marginal tax rates in the Eisenhower administration were north of 90%. Since 2002, they’ve topped out at 35%. “Trickle down,” doesn’t work, and it never has.
Luke 12:48 “….Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.”
I believe I suggested just such a need for such a crash here sometime recently and got hammered as being a nihilist. Fortunately, I’m not. I’ve just observed time and again that America “gets it” when they are hurting and not before. No one in power has been hurting these last dozen years. No one jumped out of office windows (as if most offices in NY had opening windows) when the financial collapse occurred. They all went home, opened up a bottle of Reserve Brandy, pulled out a Havana (yeah, they’re still available) and went to “work” figuring out how to make the rest of us cover their sorry buttoskas.
Now, the right wing propaganda machine has people convinced that absolutely nothing will really happen if we default. Why, we can party like it’s 1985. Jeez. But if reality happens, then the vast majority of Americans are going to say “we didn’t know” and “why didn’t they take care of it?” Only then will all the rhetoric get tossed aside and some real effort take place as huge masses of angry citizens, experiencing massive interest rates and price increases, together with goods shortages since who wants to trade with some welchers (ok, what’s the PC term for that?) start to storm the gates of Ivory Tower Washington and demand some people act like adults.
I’m just saying…
president obama’s intentions may be important in many ways but with respect to the proposition:
the nation would be better off if there were an adequate rise in the debt ceiling with no other strings attached
his intentions are irrelevant; it either happens or it does not happen with or without his support.
We’d still have misogyny if we just fixed racism.
I get your anger. Heck let’s see so far my gender has had to give up our reproductive health care choices and had check ups for their care defunded. We’ve had to tell poor women that they wouldn’t be able to get something as simple as the pill to prevent pregnancy and if they were misfortunate enough to get pregnant they’d get to run a guantlet consisting of watching an ultrasound to listening to someone describe every little aspect of the organism growing in them to haing to delat care for periods of time that was if they were lucky enough to live in a state that gives the that “privilege” and not in a state that basically says You’re pregnant, you have no rights, you’ll puke and swell and risk your life and unless you are on death’s door you’ll be forced into an 18 year committment on our say so.”
With all due respect, you aren’t the only people under the bus. Far from it.
A crash, Boo, would require the rebuilding of civil society, the 1% would no longer be on “top” and their “wealth” would, then, be worthless, even to the minions of the 1% … at which point, private armies would only be enticed by unrestricted plunder.
Civil society (through the destruction of the rule of law, speeded ruthlessly by Obama, whom you would vote for, btw, and the “gaming” of the ENTIRE SYSTEM, all aspects of it, by the clever and the calculating) is under unrelenting assault, class warfare, and the 1% do NOT intend to “back off” in the slightest, it is an end-game which THEY are playing, even though they fail to understand that it is their end which they, inevitably, ensure.
Or, do you imagine that the political class will, somehow, come to their senses and pass meaningful electoral reform?
Do you imagine that Barack Obama will choose to “lead” us to sanity if such behavior “costs” him, and his family, what he considers his “rightful place” in the legacy class and history?
DW
I hear yer frustration but consider, I hear and feel a rising and escalating tide of ‘pissed off’ across the country.
At SOME point, the lemmings will turn to DC.
*G*
N they can hold pitchforks without opposable thumbs, too. Also.
;-)
It’s become typical of our commenter in question if ya know what I mean.
The way it is happening is in a spiraling down-the-drain mode, which in the past had at least some semblance of a safety net…this time when one hits the bottom..it will be groundless…quicksand. Only the strong will survive if this global reorganization succeeds to fruition. Those with the most toys and guns win.
lol..Roger that. I have a plastic-tined muck fork.
Lemmings with pitchforks?
Larue your imagery doth take flight and makes fancy, light
but this scene ‘twould seem a total fright, if one of the lemmings were to shout, “To dee Sea!!!”
;~DW
Yep.
All signs point to a Dim bloodbath from city to fed level.
N this is part in part what provoked this morning’s Dim outburst about not in touch with Obama.
You can still call it all kabuki, I think . . . eCahn was the first I believe to call it that . . . but NEVER in political history since Eisenhower (maybe Nixon) has any party ever done this, be it kabuki or not. So it’s a precedent for that alone.
Now, if there IS dissent on The Hill, with the WH . . . all for the better.
We have to wait and see . . . but if the outcome is any cuts to the Big 3, all hayall is gonna break loose in this country, from all over the political spectrum.
*G*
N I still messed up.
lol
Maybe tonight Michelle will tell him to turn over negotiations to Pelosi or Reid, and remind him that he’s way out of his element. He thinks he’s having a debate at the Harvard club, when he’s actually being cleaned out by a street kid from Cincinnati, who’s first job was sweeping the floor at his old man’s ghetto bar. This is a real mismatch. Nancy, please take over.
I’m sure we ALL recall after the fact that Single Payer was NEVER any consideration with regards to the reality at hand.
Mz. Hamsher seemed to get that MUCH sooner than me or anyone else.
Her line in the sand for PO was well placed, and the rest is history.
Let’s not let any one revise that reality hoss . . .
Uh, could ya toss a bone to those of us who are not parakinetically inclined? Like, what do you mean?
Thanks . . . (geez, I need a new codebook I guess)
Obama now has eleven days to cut the Big 3. He will do it. There’s no downside to HIM.
If he wins re-election, he will be considered the greatest politician of all time, the man who touched the third rail and lived.
If he loses re-election, he will be taken care of by the rich who will benefit from the cuts.
Helpful, very helpful.
N well done hoss . . .
I’ve been struggling on what to do now that I went ‘decline to state’ here in CA.
Maybe a Sanders write in is better n a vote for Green.
I HAD entertained writing in The Seldom Scene, but the famed hi tenor John Duffey passed away n the band broke up for the most part with the originals.
*G*
N that, my dear Pups, is snark reality reply of the month.
Fuckin ay right on CW.
Well effing done.
I agree with ya . . . on this.
Nice to do so, too.
*G*
Heh, well struck DW, well struck!
*G*
*G*
Well, I do thoroughly enjoy how you work your way through a thread, most others have left for “dead”, Larue.
;~DW
I figure that we’re probably going to heck in a handbasket if either of the two parties win but I’ll be darned if I’ll be a willing participant in the demise of Middle Class America. Sanders will at least give me a clean conscience when party A and B start bulldozing down whatever is left of an American Dream after Obama completes his first term.
In my dream sequence I’d love to see a write in candidate campaign make the other 2 parties pee their pants over the idea that they’ve lost control over the electorate they’ve promised to deliver to the oligarchy running this country. Maybe then we could get back to democracy and the idea that when 80% of the electorate speak with one voice that perhaps you should listen to them.
appreciated.
Perhaps, cw, you’ve just described the new, and necessary, American Dream?
Any politican who has the unmitigated gall to speak of a “mandate” and the unwillingness to understand the eloquence and power in the message of an eighty percent agreement among the people, such a politician had best seek the revolving door forthwith!
DW
I probably could have done one from the perspective of the Latinos in this country too and up until recently where they’ve managed a few gains the LBGT community.
There is more than one minority group in this country that is prayed upon and politically used.
Sigh
Maybe it’s me but….. what the fuck you talkin’ about, man?
Yer here . . . why would I leave?
*G*
We are all prey CW, it would seem.
Heh, u l8 2?
LMAO!
*G*
Twas well ‘splained by someone some 20 comments or so later.
;-)
Yes, often it is simply a question of sticking around, long enough, to get the ‘splanation … and I hope that BL is working his way “through” the wonderment of it all.
;~DW
Given that in CA our votes essentially don’t matter (if CA was too close to call, that would mean that Obama was getting buried everywhere else), IMO there’s no reason not to vote symbolically.
If symbolic impact is all I’m allowed, then I’ll make the biggest statement possible. JMO.
Beefart Liberal @235,
Maybe this will help you and in some small manner:
Post at 95, post at 102, post at 105, and post at 158.
Jaango
did OBAMA put on his knee pads and gloves? because he got thrown under the bus big time.
Nothing much to throw in on top of the comments here, which would provide some levity if there weren’t real-world consequences to the actions of this quisling. I will say that when the White House insists on negotiating like a fire hydrant with the opposing pack of dogs for 3 years, the results should be completely expected. And I’m sure they are.
They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The same could be said of stupidity. But I don’t think the White House is insane or stupid.
Defazio sums it all up
link below
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×602748
Obama extends Bush Tax Cuts
to pay for the Bush Tax Cuts? Obama tries to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade
who still thinks OBAMA is a progressive? anyone
“He said that Democrats bent over backwards, pushing the deal as far in the Republicans’ direction as possible.”
Despite his continued fellating of the republicans, clearly he needs to do more. Come on, Obama, really buckle down now. Less teeth, perhaps.
I absolutely did not. I have about a hundred thousand arrows in my back to prove it.