CNN has reported that Harry Reid is working on his own debt limit proposal that would cut deficits by $2.5 trillion total, include no revenue increases, and raise the debt limit by that same $2.5 trillion amount. Reid, Nancy Pelosi, the President and Vice President are scheduled to meet in the White House tonight starting at 6pm ET. Aides stressed that this would satisfy two key demands of the House GOP. It would have the dollar-for-dollar relationship between spending cuts and an increase in the debt limit; and it would not include revenue.
It sounds to me like the Democrats feel they need a counter-offer to what John Boehner will propose. We know that Boehner wants to call the President’s bluff and offer a mechanism with a short-term debt limit increase combined with spending cuts, and a Catfood Commission II that would be tied to the next tranche of debt limit increase. So Reid’s proposal would be that counter-offer, giving Republicans most of what they asked for.
Given the numbers used here, I would guess that the outline of the cuts would be similar to what Nancy Pelosi suggested in a meeting with bloggers on Friday. It hinges on an accounting gimmick that would “reduce” deficits based on drawing down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because CBO essentially calculates the cost of war based on the previous year’s cost, by capping war spending at a lower number you “save” a good deal. As Pelosi described it, that could add up to $1 trillion to the total savings.
So you can get to $2.5 trillion pretty easily, then. Take the $1 trillion from the wars, add $1.2 trillion in agreed-to cuts from the discretionary budget, and add $200-$300 billion from foregone interest payments and you’re there.
This is obviously not a great deal, with its $1.2 trillion in cuts to the discretionary budget (we don’t know exactly where those cuts will fall). But compared to digging into entitlements, it’s better than some of the other ideas. It’s not clear whether the Reid plan would have a Catfood Commission II process attached; I would hope that it wouldn’t. If it doesn’t, then revenues and entitlements would be put aside, and the final result accomplished with $1.2 trillion in spending cuts and a big accounting gimmick. The other big unknown here is WHEN those spending cuts would fall, and that’s important. If too many of them are in the immediate term, namely in fiscal year 2012, that could have a seriously negative impact on the economy. Remember, when confronted with a Republican budget plan that would have cut $100 billion from the 2011 budget, independent analysts said that would cost the economy between 700,000 and 1 million jobs. The same level of cuts would produce the same bad outcomes in FY2012.
This would allow the real debate about taxes and the safety net to be decided by VOTERS, not commissions or other extra-Constitutional processes. The 2012 elections could make the determination. The public could have a voice. And the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, which would raise $4 trillion over a decade, would be the forcing mechanism.
I’m sure Republicans would find a way to reject this, maybe by saying it doesn’t get to the root of the deficit problem. The fact is that we don’t have a deficit problem, we have a jobs problem. Therefore none of these solutions are really palatable from an economic perspective. But as long as Reid’s plan doesn’t include a Catfood Commission II time bomb, it’s an improvement over most of what’s on offer. That fact alone shows how far to the right this debate has gone.
…Incidentally, Boehner’s going to miss his self-imposed deadline lest the “Asian markets” freak out. He said he’d announce something tomorrow. By the way, the Asian markets are not yet freaking out at all.
I went to the Asian markets today, they had some great cherimoya and fresh pears, but nobody there had ever even heard of the debt limit!




37 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
“The fact is that we don’t have a deficit problem, we have a jobs problem.”; yup and for further info about it-with graphs- see The Problem of US Employment
So besides the Fisherian economics the Obama Admin is swayed by, there’s a structural problem that no one wants to admit to or discuss.
Love this quote from Seattle’s mayor:”Mayor Mike McGinn of Seattle told The Hill in an interview there is a huge disconnect between Washington and the public which is focused on high unemployment. He called the debt ceiling debate a manufactured crisis and deep cuts the wrong thing for the economy.
At the last minute I couldn’t go to the US Conference of Mayors event in LA this weekend, but my impression was that this was the overriding sentiment from the mayors, regardless of party.
I thought McConnell’s original plan had no cuts in it, and when he started negotiating with Reid it was Reid who added the Catfood Commission to the deal. But just about anything you think you know only has a 5% chance of being true for more than 15 minutes, so who knows.
Will anyone pay attention? Sounds like a significant group….
Is old Harry jumping off the Titantic Obama?
Is Harry going rogue, doing a Sarah Palin on Obama?
Catfood 2 is very risky for the Dems and Reps, “Harry and the other Senators don’t want the dumb little House members to mess up their screw the USA middle class party”
the Gang of 12 idea goes against the Elite mantra, which is House Members not welcome to screw USA middle class party.
John Boehner did not like Gang of Six, I take it.
Harry are you mad at OBAMA for trying to throw you under the bus?
I bet OBAMA can’t wait to take his cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicade message to the people of the USA, that Win The Future stump speech will feature a lot of dodging and bending over by Obama, because Shoes, Eggs, etc. will be thrown in Obama direction.
Obama is probaly telling old Harry come back? come back?
In other political news, now all GOPers close to OBAMA
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/24/poll-ron-paul-within-hailing-distance-of-obama/
Ron Paul, can now shout at OBAMA, for LOL
I agree – nothing I thought I knew about anyone has been that solid the last 3 years.
I hope it is a simple 2.5 trillion via the don’t touch entitlements approach David outlined and no catfood 2 commission and no council of 12 elders fast tracking the Wall Street ideas, overruling standard Congressional review.
Indeed I hope the GOP reject Reid, and Obama grows a spine and rejects Boehner, and we get a 14th Amendment ending – I can hope, I can dream – wake me when it is over.
we’re starting the webinar with Nancy Altman and Eric Kingson starting now, for those who signed up.
Is there any real chance of Obama growing a spine?
Would have to be a transplant. But who do we know DC who has one to donate?
Another failed Democratic attempt to sway the fucking sociopathic morons of the Tea Party. I would love for someone to explain to me why 80 to 90 people, who represent probably less than 10% of the US population are controlling policy in Washington DC for the rest of us sane people?
Right. The only reason I think it might not include Catfood II is because of the emphasis in the report that entitlements and taxes would not be involved. But as you said, who knows.
Because nothing chirps “austerity!” like $1 trillion for wars.
You know, if the GOP isn’t careful with these negotiations they’re going to get everything they want.
I read that to mean that they wouldn’t be dealing with it now because they were punting to Catfood II, but like you say, I would put about zero dollars on that.
This is probably the first time in history where both parties in congress and the executive branch have conspired to unload an eleventh dimensional bowel movement on this country’s working and retired citizens. Don’t expect any floaters to help you rise with the tide.
Christ on His Throne! Just unilaterally raise the debt ceiling and forget about the fucking austerity shit. Common fucking sense.
First Harry Reid co-plans the Super Congress, now this. Harry Reid is a real “democrat”, whatever that means nowadays.
No, the most recent “big dump” on the American public was TARP. The American public was against that by 99%. That’s why some are calling this TARP 2.0:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/07/get-ready-for-tarp-2-0.html
Then again, most of the American public would have backed Medicare-for-all too. Well, lets just say it’s getting hard to see where both parties actually still support the American people in any substantive way.
I’m on the webinar and still laffin my ass off at this one . . .*G*
In case anyone was getting bored … the continuing resolution, or whatever is passing for the lack of a budget these days, expires at the end of September.
So, regardless of what comes from these
negotiationspress releasescheap political theater, we get to do the same fights about spending as soon as they get back fromsummer vacationAugust recess.So what happens if the Iraqis take us up on the Obama administration’s offer to stay longer – does that mean that grandma gets her Social Security and Medicare cut?
I’ve got the answer, I’ve got the answer. My solution will have no new tax increases nor will it slash entitlements. How about we withdraw from all of our current wars, slash our intelligence juggernaut, destroy the TSA and return to a pre-2001 world? We built this monster and we can end it.
This would save us trillions of dollars and accomplish the goals of both sides of Congress.
*gasp* I know.. how dare I bring up the sacred cows! The old and poor must starve first!
So many chances to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, so little time.
You need to keep Geithner and Obama as far away from the process as possible otherwise entitlement cuts will be back on the table.
God, are they paid to look stupid or are they really stupid? I will give Congress the simplest method on Earth to cut Tsy spending by $ trillion over the next decade (to give away the trick, by zeroing out the $5 trillion in net interest debt service).
Require Fed’s annual rebate to Tsy to least equal Tsy’a net interest unless otherwise directed by Secretary of the Treasury to pay bondholders directly. Let the Fed governors worry about how to pay for it (it won’t be hard, I promise– click click).
Reid knows that, which is why he’s proposing his own deal.
Maybe Reid doesn’t fancy spending the remaining years as minority leader in the Senate. If he and the Dems vote to cut Social Security and Medicare, they will lose their majority. Reid will be minority leader for the remainder of his term more likely.
For some reason every time I talk to my oldest son I wind up debating him about the fact that we have a demand problem. Maybe it’s just me, but somehow that seems more definitive when talking to a person whose age and education have introduced him to “supply side” economics. I then end up by again reciting what is becoming a mantra: You know yourself, no business will hire new people until demand warrants new hires. They certainly can’t be expected to hire when they can’t move whatever it is they’re selling already.
Oddly enough, even he knows that at this point, the government is the spender of last resort. Too bad the Powers That Be can’t seem to figure that out, or that the Prez doesn’t seem to even have good sense enough to appoint economists as advisors who would point this fact out to him and those around him that don’t understand it.
I feel like I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole, and I’m pretty sure Alice never saw a Confidence Fairy.
David has got it right in this post. Here are my comments:
http://www.21stcenturypolitics.com/2011/07/getting-dem-house-in-order.html
So Democrats are now playing at spreading the blame, eh? Now it’s Reid’s turn. What a bad joke.
Obama should have never been sitting down at the table with these clowns in the first place. At least Reid has the common sense to step up to a microphone and blast these traitors for their childish behaviour, the Great Compromiser doesn’t know how to do that. Reid will paint them into a corner better than anybody can.
Actually the Obama-Boehner deal did address jobs.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/92552/obama-wanted-deal-payroll-holiday-unemployment-ratings-downgrade
Is that a good enough reason to reduce future entitlement benefits? Not really. But it does appear the administration is aware that economic stimulus is sorely needed. And honestly I doubt we’ll get better stimulus than the initiatives mentioned in that link
Y’know, if Reid really wants to “negotiate,” why doesn’t he put together an “all taxes” bill? Since the Repubs = “all cuts,” they could then meet half way and perhaps get some taxes.
But when you start at “all cuts,” where do you think that’s gonna get you?
To be clear though. I’m still against the deal. But I also think it’s not true to say that the current negotiations ignore the need to generate jobs through stimulus measures, the extensions which are some of the biggest bang for the buck.
Reid sure painted them into a corner on health care. not.
Btw, Reid’s embracing an all-cuts deal. He might as well get in bed with him for all the good he’s doing.
But, you’re right, he said a few things into a microphone that might hurt their feelings a little bit before giving them more or less what they want.
Democrats suck.
No renewal of the tax holiday. Period. Check out Matt Taibi’s blog on Rolling Stone. Here’s the link: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/holiday-in-scambodia-20110720
I knew I had screwed up voting for Obama when he started by keeping some of the same advisors and some of the staff from dubya’s terms. These were the morons that got us in this mess in the first place and he thought they were going to help solve it. Obama in his typical show of great intelligence looks at the polls and then listens to these people when they tell him they know what the people really want. Duh! Dumbass-wake-up!
As for Harry Reid, this doddering old fool will give everything away because he is not bright enough to realize that if the repubs get anything on this deal they will want even more when it comes budget time. I say kill any deal now except a clean raise and make Obama stand on his own feet and use the 14th to raise the debt ceiling. Then the dems have something to start the negotiations on the budget with. Hint to Dems- when negotiating start triple the amount you want and lower as the opponent gives something in return.
Finally, I have to say this one more time- YOU DAMN POLITICIANS KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF MY SS AND MEDICARE.