Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer presented their plan for how to deal with the debt limit, which they expect to introduce in the Senate ASAP. And now that we have more of the details, I really don’t know what the two parties are arguing over at this point. Because the Reid plan and the Boehner plan are substantially similar, for one main reason: Reid’s plan includes a “Super Congress,” a 12-member, bicameral, bipartisan “Catfood Commission II” that would deliver recommendations for further deficit reduction by the end of the year. This is the copy directly from the two-page draft release, which Brian Beutler helpfully tweeted:
Establishes Joint Congressional Committee to Find Future Savings: In addition to $2.7 trillion in concrete savings, the Senate package will establish a joint, bipartisan committee, made up of 12 members, to present options for future deficit reduction. The committee’s recommendations will be guaranteed an up-or-down Senate vote, without amendments, by the end of 2011.
That means no filibuster and no amendments. So 12 members of Congress would make the kind of decisions that all members should have a hand in making.
Obviously, this isn’t a total slam dunk. That passage is annoyingly vague. It doesn’t say whether there’s an actual target number for deficit savings. It doesn’t say whether the savings would have to come from taxes or spending. It doesn’t say what happens if the committee just deadlocks, 6-6, along party lines. And the recommendations could always be defeated in the House or Senate. I would doubt all of that, actually: I would expect some, if not all, of the Gang of Six to be put on this commission, and that their vision for deficit reduction would become the template.
But that’s a discussion for another day. As I said, I don’t know what we’re arguing about anymore. The Reid plan has $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts, based on the Biden talks. The Boehner plan has $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts. The Reid plan defers future deficit reduction to a bipartisan commission. The Boehner plan defers future deficit reduction to a bipartisan commission.
There are only a few differences:
1) The Reid plan scores the $1 trillion in savings from drawdown in Iraq and Afghanistan. This was part of the Republican budget, but I don’t think it’s part of the Boehner plan.
2) The Reid plan has $100 billion in mandatory spending cuts, mainly from reducing fraud and abuse in disability and health care fraud; strengthening IRS enforcement; reforms to Fannie and Freddie (not sure what that’s about); sale of spectrum; and reforms to Ag subsidies. I think these were mainly agreed to in the Biden talks as well.
3) The Reid plan increases the debt limit through the end of 2012 up front; the Boehner plan holds back some of the increase until the result of their Catfood Commission II.
So really we’re talking about the timing of the debt limit increase, and that’s virtually it.
There’s almost nothing truly different between the House and Senate plans. They both are extremely perilous for the future of the safety net, take the wrong position on what we should be doing right now (austerity instead of job creation) and will probably have a material negative impact on the economy.
Like I said at the beginning of the week on Twitter, if you think politics is like a sport, and don’t care about the real implications for millions of people, this should be a fun week.
UPDATE: Now that I’m seeing the Boehner plan, there are some additional differences:
1) The Boehner plan requires another doomed vote on a balanced budget amendment;
2) The Boehner version of the Catfood Commission II has a defined target of $1.8 trillion in deficit reduction;
3) The Boehner plan includes a spending cap with automatic across-the-board cuts if the cap is breached.
Obviously a spending cap is a terrible idea. But it’s a sop to his base, a chip to be traded. Take it away and you have the same basic plan as Reid’s.
UPDATE II: And now the White House has come out for the Reid plan. Here’s the statement from Press Secretary Jay Carney:
The President has been advocating a balanced plan that would reduce our deficit by $4 trillion by making large cuts in domestic and Pentagon spending, reforming entitlement programs, and closing tax loopholes for corporations, millionaires and billionaires. This sort of approach won support from Democrats and Republicans in the Senate, but the House Republicans walked away after insisting that the budget be balanced on the backs of seniors and the middle class.
Now, faced with the “my way or the highway,” short-term approach of the House Republicans, Senator Reid has put forward a responsible compromise that cuts spending in a way that protects critical investments and does not harm the economic recovery. All the cuts put forward in this approach were previously agreed to by both parties through the process led by the Vice President. Senator Reid’s plan also reduces the deficit more than enough to meet the contrived dollar-for-dollar criteria called for by House Republicans, and, most importantly, it removes the cloud of a possible default from our economy through 2012. The plan would make a meaningful down payment in addressing our fiscal challenge, and we could continue to work together to build on it with a balanced approach to deficit reduction that includes additional spending reforms and closing tax loopholes for corporations, millionaires and billionaires.
Senator Reid’s plan is a reasonable approach that should receive the support of both parties, and we hope the House Republicans will agree to this plan so that America can avoid defaulting on our obligations for the first time in our history. The ball is in their court.




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#fuckyouwashington
Would we be hunted down as bioterrorists if we sent empty, stinky cat food cans to WH?
and yes, FUWashington,FUVeryMuch
That’s not so bad David. That would exclude Social Security and most of Medicare since they’re not part of the deficit. Social Security never has been and never will be. So if that’s their charter, social security is off limits. Right? Right????
Assholes.
That’s the most important piece to Obama and the Republicans.
re: the picture
My cats got Super Supper for breakfast today. Coincidence?
It is one of their favorite flavors and they licked the bowls clean!
aye, there’s the rub
Sen Bob Corker said on CNBC this morning that something drastic has to be done. Sure glad that Obama and Reid are there to make sure that it’s going to be done on the backs of the poor and middle class.
I saw in BT’s post that Waxman and others are telling Obama to his face that he’s weak.
Frankly, Congressman Waxman, unless you and others step up to stop what’s happening, you are the ones who are weak.
Democrats suck.
Standard Obama -
give the GOP everything they want – then dare them to ask for more – and declare victory when you give them more, because you are the president and your words carry weight.
What happen to Catfood 2 not being Constitutional because one can not delegate rights given a body?
Anyone care to sue?
And no part two of the debt limit increase under GOP 2 step if Congress does not pass Catfood 2 proposal?
Well there are a few days left – the GOP can think up a few other demands – and Obama will agree. How about a corporate tax cut “stimulus”, or a rich folks estate tax set to zero for 10 years?
Got to love that Obama spine – and Hillary would have been just as bad /s
Farm subsidies won’t be cut the tea baggers cannot sell that to their rural base and Obama can’t make the rural Dems agree to that either. What about cutting Ethanol we can still pay farmers cash but save money by getting rid of ethanol.
It costs more to turn corn to ethanol than it costs to get oil. Farmers can still get cash and the corn can be used to feed animals and lower meat prices thus freeing up consumer spending to help the economy.
What about selling the gold in fort knox it earns us no interest. Or selling the oil in the strategic oil reserve.
The one thing they ALL seem to agree on is the crucial need to create an unaccountable Super Congress the removes the right of the peoples’ elected representatives to actually legislate. When you see alignment around an issue like that, it’s an indicator that everything else is fluff.
As Winston Churchill said, or perhaps Shaw, “Why, madame, having established THAT, we’re merely haggling over the price.”
“That means no filibuster and no amendments. So 12 members of Congress would make the kind of decisions that all members should have a hand in making.”
All this “much ado about nothing” to maintain the illusion of democracy.
Can Catfood II recommend tax increases?
this bill is doa at obama’s desk. he said cuts and revenues, not cuts only. as a matter of fact, obama rejected it as soon as reid sent him the bill. reid, for his part, may have been bluffing.
It says nothing about what it can or cannot recommend.
Take a look at UPDATE II above, from the White House:
Time is running out to get some really significant cuts to SSMM so we can say we saved the republic from those thieving old bastards./s
The document which was Twittered says that it does not include cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. But after the New Gang of Twelve gets done, who knows?
I would like to know if it includes the chained-CPI which intends to cut COLAs.
dammit, that’s the quote I was trying to come up with!
Obama never saw a revenue he wouldn’t walk away from.
They’re both bad, but seems to me the Boehner plan is worse because it requires another month wasted on debt limit kabuki at the beginning of next year.
Dday, if I couldn’t come to the Lake every afternoon and trust what I read here, I would have no idea WTF is going on a few miles away from me downtown. So, thank you very much for continuing to report on this disgusting circus.
I like the concluding line before your updates:
I admit I do think politics is a sport and it has been a riveting several months watching the White House morph into a Republican message machine. Obama sucks so hard it makes me physically ill at times. But what do we do if we do “care about the real implications” for the poor, disabled, middle class and workers?
well, parts of Medicare are funded by general revenues.
I think rules are made to be broken on this one.
Harry and the Tea Baggers think a Catfood commission and a Super Congress will save them from voter anger?
Pahh! Voters don’t care how its passed if this passes they all get the blame.
I don’t disagree with that. And there’s less pressure to just vote down the Catfood Commission recos, since it’s not tied to a debt limit increase.
Any word on how big the tax break for the rich will be?
Job one is not done until Obama has HISTORIC SSMM cuts.
Does this mean those two black holes of wars are over!!!???
Iraq and Afghanistan???
Just to be the contrarian here again…
This “Super Congress” besides it’s findings still having to be voted on by ALL the House and Senate and signed by the President, in order to get CREATED in the first place, has to pass votes by ALL the House and Senate.
I’m still not sure where the constitutional problems are with this set up. Which has been used before.
As far as accountability goes, well, if you don’t like the concept, vote against ALL the members that vote for the concept in the first place.
The “super congress” itself doesn’t even get started without first passing the regular Congress. That’s where your accountability is, and remains.
Politics has been turned into a sport. The only thing that matters now is who wins and the citizens can do nothing – at least right now. The WH is the Super Bowl and both parties will do or say anything to attain the prize. A pox on them all.
OK, time for pesky/weedy details and questions: exactly how are they going to establish the Commission?
If they model it like BRAC (Base Realignment And Closure Commission)they have to pass a law first, modeled after something like BRAC, which is Public Law 101-510 [PDF]
How they get to the upperdown vote part is spelled out in the link starting at page 30, and just replace “Armed Services Committee” with, say, “Ways & Means” – (all emphases added):
The pisser is, they can do this, and as far as I can find there are no Appellate level appeals, much less successful appeals at all to basic BRAC style commission.
So I believe there is an opportunity to intervene in the first step of making a new public law.
Now, if they don’t make or amend law to set up a BRAC style commission, then that is Unconstitutional. Article 5 of the Constitution ends:
“…no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.”
So, if at the least there isn’t a full Senate vote in establishing this Commission, I believe it’s un-constitutional, and that a State Governor would have standing to sue and pray for an immediate injunction.
They think by doing this they can escape any responsibility for what happens. “Shit, I wouldn’t have made those cuts, but you know, you can’t amend it now. It’s the rules.” So, all that vote for it are shitheads.
Gotta sink that SSMetaMucil
But I will know who votes for it.
So they’re going after Ag subsidies but not oil subsidies? Somebody needs to upgrade their lobbyists!
Seems like we get two chances on it: When they set it up and when they vote fot it.
They’ve run the clock and now are giving the people no choice but to take whatever shitty deal they produce in the eleventh hour.
Is this a twist on the shock doctrine?
Sorry to be OT, but I just heard Leo Gerard, President of the United Steelworkers, and this dumb fuck said he was raised to oppose communism and support capitalism (like all good Americans are brainwashed to believe) and now he can’t believe what’s going on in Washington. What a dumb fucker but the perfect example of why the labor movement is nothing more than a toothless tiger. When you purge the communists and socialists, the best organizers and class conscious theoreticians, of the labor movement to appease the capitalists you’ve tied your own noose. Disregarding class consciousness has it’s consequences.
The Doc Fix is general revenue. The drug deal has no revenue source.. Deductibles are set so as to not totally discourage the getting of care by folks that must save the money
So they cut hospital – which has no problem – to get that payroll tax money for the doc fix and drugs. I don’t recall that discussion when passing the drug benefit in 2003/4. But OK, still post these future cuts there is no revenue source for drugs, and the doc rules are the 1998 law that gets waived every year with funds from general revenue – and that does not get changed. The only change is lower HI benefits – and higher deductibles and higher premiums – leading to a health care system that is not used because folks can’;t afford it – and then people die early.
So “I think rules are made to be broken on this one.” is based on what logic?
I don’t think it matters much. If the thugs want it, the supremes will back them.
spot on
BTW, my only point is to the constitutionality of it.
I still don’t see any real problems CONSTITUTIONALLY with it.
I don’t much like it policy wise, and am more than willing to hold any politician that supports such a policy accountable.
I absolutely agree that legislators ought to legislate, not delegate the authority. Just not sure I agree with some of the constitutional points raised to date. And it doesn’t appear David is making any constitutional claims either. He just says it’s bad policy too. I agree wholeheartedly on that.
But there may be some constitutional problems I’m not aware of yet, so my mind is open.
I thought under the GOP idea if Catfood 2 is shot down the war on debt limit 2 is on.
Indeed I thought that was the difference between the two plans.
Is this wrong?
Yes what do we do?
This seems an awful lot like Obamacare 2.0 where the Democrats really want to do something (as in Cut Social Security), but they want to have the fig leaf of bipartisanship to hide behind. The Republicans wouldn’t go along with nationalizing corporate Romneycare (that they agreed to in some backroom in the White House) so that it fell on the Democrats and it looks like that is happening all over again where we saw what the Democrats really want just happens to be wholly contrary to what they used fight Republicans over and won elections on.
Do any of the folks here with past experience dealing with actual legislative language have an answer to the question below? (DDay? Powwow? Selise? Jon? Jane? anyone?)
When they pass appropriating legislation and authority, is there language included in that legislation that specifically states the monies appropriated are subject to the laws regarding debt limits???
It seems to me without such language, that this is just another case of a legislative body passing conflicting laws that the executive is left with enforcing. And that almost always means the executive either outright chooses which one to enforce, or asks the courts to choose one.
I’m just thinking out loud here that this is more evidence that this whole debt ceiling “crisis” is theater. If there is no language like that in the appropriation legislation, Obama, or any President, can basically choose which to enforce. That he CHOOSES the debt limiting legislation, is more proof this crisis is by CHOICE.
These are not Catfood Commissions at all. The real Catfood Commission is coming in Greece.
When the people buying the bonds and lending the money don’t want to lend anymore, THEN you get the real Catfood Commission.
But, cutting “fraud, waste and abuse?” We’ve heard that before, and it goes no where–exactly where it is intended to go.
And, to count ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before they have actually ended? that’s baloney too, whether in the GOP budget or reid’s plan.
I stick by my prediction from a month ago. Nothing will happen until someone actually turns the electricity off. Then, we’ll pay the bill–if we can.
Tend to agree. Until that point it is business as usual in Washington.
Nope Shock Doctrine 101.
The committee’s recommendations will be guaranteed an up-or-down Senate vote, without amendments, by the end of 2011
and that’s bad, why? Heaven forbid that we put legislation – any legislation – to a vote without clouding it with the type of add-ons and political BS that would divert attention from the merits of the underlying language.
why would you NOT want the legislation to be passed or failed based solely on its merits?
#fuckyouwashington is now #FYW.
People are pissed. About a lot of things.
Personally I want to know WHY the first announcement of the Reid “deal” omitted the Catfood Commission. I didn’t believe it. I’m sure we were supposed to breathe a sigh of relief.
Lying liars lying about lying liars lying about lying.
Why would you NOT want your representative in Congress be able to offer an amendment that might improve, or even fix typos (yes, amendments sometimes do that) legislation rather than just saying no and starting the process over?
To the phones/fax,email and barricades people; let them know your thoughts about the ‘Super congress’ !!
And thanks Kelly but it will probably be a Repub governor who might object; Anyone in MT because Schweitzer is the only Dem Guv I can see challenging this.
“If there is no language like that in the appropriation legislation, Obama, or any President, can basically choose which to enforce.”
The President can’t choose which to enforce – particularly with fiscal legislation as what you are talking about is having the President have a de facto line item veto, which Clinton had previously but was struck down by SCOTUS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_v._City_of_New_York
I thought Shock Doctrine 101 was the private sector preparing in order to capitalize on the aftermath of actual disasters.
Then came manufacturing disasters.
This seems to be a new twist, far more like what Bush et al did to trick us into a stupid war of choice.
An executive HAS to choose one when they conflict though.
Congress passes a law that says people over 65 who qualify and have been registered will recieve a check each month of $$$$.
Congress passes a law that says the US government can’t borrow more than $$$$.
If s/he honors the second, s/he is violating the first. If s/he honors the first, s/he is violating the second.
When legislative bodies pass conflicing laws the executive is forced to choose which one to enforce. Or get the courts to choose.
Yeah, I talking all aspects. Tax reform, budget reform.
Here is the one thing I keep coming back to: if the entire income of the top 5% were taken in taxes, it still would not cover the deficit. So, something has to be cut.
Both sides cannot be ignored. GOP ignores the tax side, and the Dems ignore the cuts side (note: actual cuts, not “waste, fraud and abuse”)
It is all wishful thinking fueled by voters who don’t want anything to change. they mouth the words, but when it comes down to it, they vote out anyone who actually changes something.
Note, actually changes something. They love to vote in someone who SAYS they will change something. But, those who actually DO change something get voted out.
According to what Naomi Klein wrote about it is disaster capitalism. Using actual disasters or manufactured ones. Iraq was a perfect example of a manufactured crisis to plunder that country. It is a crime what the contractors did over there. IMHO
Gee a “Super Congress?”
OOH GOODIE!
Maybe the USA will get its own Enabling Act!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOO
Well, they may have the power to deprive me of represenation but I will not vote for it.
In response to the Catfoodcrats, I suggest voting for your cat in 2012.
Maybe they’ll do nobility next and we can have our very own Prince Harry. Hmm…I think I like the other Prince Harry better. Can we petition the Queen to take us back?
“So 12 members of Congress would make the kind of decisions that all members should have a hand in making.”
The push for dictatorship is ON baby, full court press! Walker closing the DMVs to suppress votes? Done madam done! “It couldn’t happen here” but it is. Right now. Behold, watch it unfold!
And don’t say I didn’t tell ya so!
We are going to be watching like hawks. They should know it by now. No more payroll cuts, no fiddling with the COLA!
Notice the different take between what the president wanted (entitlement reform) and what Reid made a point of promising. And now we are supposed to heave a huge sigh of relief and like Ed Schultz be perfectly happy with no extra revenue from the wealthy? Not bloody likely.
they will recommend increasing taxes on the poor and middle claases! Thamks Harry!! next Sharon is going to kick your ass!
The LA Times reported that the president likes the Reid plan. My response was basically ‘What is the Reid plan? It hasn’t gotten any coverage.’
I also referred to the ‘supercommittee’ as the ‘State Central Committee’ and said it was unconstitutional. (It may also be immoral and fattening, but that’s less critical.)
Yes, that’s exactly what they’re going for. No responsibility for the laws or their effects, and no way for anyone to get justice, or even an answer from those who shouldbe responsible.
He may not be the sharpest guy, but isn’t the take home message that what we have is not capitalism anymore?
So, he’s as much a traitor as Obama? I think not.
The people of the country have been taught to fear communists and consider class consciousness a vice.
Want another example of a sold out union? NEA already endorsed the Big 0. Think they will get the unfunded mandate of NCLB funded that way? That union doesn’t just have its messaging and class consciousness wrong. At least the Steel Workers guy puts himself out there even if he isn’t exactly the brightest bulb. He’s trying, more than I can say for most unions.
The evidence that this is a manufactured crisis is beyond anything like a reasonable doubt.
Trade an “up or down” vote in the Senate on the BBA for the “only one vote” long term option for raising the debt ceiling.
Deal Done.
(To bad we still have a gang of 12 with knives out for Social Security)