I’m not a big Charlie Cook fan, and I think he’s deeply confused about economics in this post. But I feel like he definitely gets it right about the era we’re heading into.
Over the course of history, Congress and the White House have seen highs and lows. Times that can be remembered with pride and other times when politicians failed to meet the American people’s expectations. Right now, we are at a very, very low point—the worst I’ve seen since I moved to Washington in September 1972. Never in my memory have both parties and both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue appeared as dysfunctional as they do today [...]
Several days ago, I was stopped repeatedly, including once by a security guard in my office building and three times by different people at the grocery store. All were seeking some explanation as to what was happening with the debt-ceiling debate and hoping that I might be able to provide some assurance that things were going to work out OK. In some of these encounters, I tried to come up with a hopeful response; other times, I just threw up my hands.
That same day, one of my brothers-in-law e-mailed me a long and involved joke about a man who was born with a silver screw in his stomach instead of a belly button. As he grew up, he furtively searched for a way to have the screw removed; finally, at a monastery in Nepal, he found a monk who could make it happen. To make a long story short, a giant screwdriver appears out of a purple mist, removes the screw, and disappears out the window. Jubilant, the man jumps up, and his rear end falls off. The moral of the story is, “Don’t screw around with things you don’t understand—you can lose your butt.” Appended to the joke was the notation that Congress is screwing around with things it doesn’t understand, such as the economy, and that’s why we are all losing our butts. Lawmakers may not realize they are becoming national jokes, but they are.
We are coming out of three straight wave elections and I predict we’ll see a fourth in 2012. People don’t know which side to blame but they sure know that this group of elites has failed completely. This episode over the debt limit only confirms that.
In a normal era, this wouldn’t matter so much. The United States had many natural advantages and accumulated wealth based on resources going back to its founding. But we have larger challenges than at any time in our history: an unbalanced economy, a planet boiling from climate change, a broken health care system threatening to crowd out everything else, a determined, sophisticated and fully stocked corporate/conservative movement dedicated to grabbing as much for themselves as possible. So that just magnifies the dysfunction.
And incidentally, we’re seeing this kind of failure in Europe and throughout the world; it’s not unique to the United States. Yes, we have a pathetic couple of political parties, and a cult of balance in corporate-run media that poisons the discourse. But institutions all over the world, at every level, have been rotting for some time, and the same elites who have failed the world have pressured these institutions into acting on their behalf.
And it drives a sense of helplessness among the public, something I see and hear every single day, which could go one of two ways. It could result in people massing together, rebuilding a mass movement to end the careers of those who put us in this predicament, or it could result in a mass pulling back. People could retreat to other pursuits, places where they can maintain a modicum of control. This of course plays right into the hands of unaccountable elites, giving them practically everything they want. I reject it totally. But that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.




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Yes.
“…utter confusion”?
Possibly total collapse?
Perhaps elites, unrestrained in their greed and quest for unlimited power don’t merely “fail” but are a dire and increasingly apparent threat to the rest of us?
After all, it ain’t a game of Ping Pong they’ve been cheatin’ at.
Thanks, DDay, as always.
DW
Another bit of news via Spencer Ackerman at Wired that he’s hearing that a closed-door meeting of the Senate Select Committee on Intel on FISA extensions and amendments. Think of all the issues that are going on while they keep our attention aimed at the debt ceiling faux crisis.
And if the ceiling limit is as incremental as possible, that may be the only debate happening in public. Scary trend here.
Obama is not the most compassionate caring person in the world. But to blame “Washington” which means what? a dysfunctional Congress. a dysfunctional media? Seems to me that Obama holds up when compared to 20 years of the Bushes and Clintons which is the source.
I’ve been saying a variant of this for a while now:
They don’t know what they’re doing, and it’s going to have unintended, unanticipated out comes, and not just electorally.
When I heard that “joke”, what, 40 years ago? it was a golden screw. Shows now that no one can afford gold any more.
Is it wrong to feel deep gratification that our core analysis has been correct for the past two years?
You didn’t say exactly what Cook said about economics that was “confused,” but the economic disaster staring us in the face is quite vivid in this AP summary from 9:16 this morning.
I’ll paste in a huge block quote in a minute, if the thread doesn’t crash first.
Now is the time for an alternative progressive party. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are the problem. The electorate is fed up and a real alternative just might fly. The question is, who will be the catalyst for the formation of such a party?
I don’t support the system that daily murders many with little or no notice.
The Magnificent Mindless ‘Merican Murder Machine will run out of money sooner or later but as a parasite it will kill it’s host before collapse.
This is what goons cost, more than I’m willing to pay.
quote from AP story linked to @7
Given the “genius” of Obama and the crackerjack economic team he put together is that headline really that surprising?
This is what happens when you get an “elite” produced from a system that values having more money than sense.
(And that’s *exactly* what get you ahead and respect in 21st century America).
-stewartm
This is by design. First, progressives were rendered helpless in politics. Now, however, learned helplessness is spreading to the political “center” — the folks who used to think politicians chased after their vote.
IMVHO the elites have exceeded the limits of public tolerance. New ways of finding power will emerge to challenge the plutocracy.
I am so glad you pointed that out. We here in this country tend to get to focused on our our brand of bull shit and forget that there is more than enough manure for the whole planet.
I will agree with many here. The GOP blew it big time last night. I would say it is likely over for them for a long time now.
Over play your hand, and down you go.
As someone who generally supports the conservative ideals, sad to say. But, like Pelosi overplayed her hand last year, the Tea Party overplayed its hand.
On the other hand, with the screwed up scene we are in now, anything could happen.
there is enough screw up to go all the way around.
Heh. I’m *always* wrong when I make predictions though.
OK, I admit it: that joke got me. Big.
Furthermore, it’s about the most cogent commentary on the whole suicide-by-debt-ceiling-impasse wreck that I’ve seen.
That is all.
IMF. Fuckers every one.
I keep hoping for the former, but every year that we keep doing the latter lessens my ability to hope. I’ve been beating my head against the wall for years now, with letters, phone calls, and blogs, and have achieved precisely nothing with my actions. The loons are still in control.
I keep hoping that we, collectively as a society, will have had enough, rise up, and take back our government. Each day that passes when we don’t do that diminishes my hope that we ever will.
This is what happens when people try to borrow their way out of debt.
DW – excellent observation!
Why FDL of course. You guys RAWK and have seen the light for a long time.
Exactly! And that’s the way they want it.
They can’t screw over the American people, if it will give one side a decisive advantage as it did in that Buffalo election when the Republicans were seen as wanting to do-in SS and Medicare under the Ryan plan.
That’s when Obama opened the door to screweing the American people by putting SS and Medicare “on the table.” What courage and bipartisan wisdom! Now the blame can be spread around, and the screwing can proceed in a bipartisan fashion with neither side fearing that the other might get an advantage, i.e., become less hated, for what they are doing to the public.
This in turn produces more bemonied “geniuses” like Timmeth in power with fewer restraints on their decision making. Which of course results in more “genius” decision-making and more despair.
One of the good things that came out of the Depression was that America’s faith in corporate leaders as some sort of sage wise men was broken. The Right since the 1970s have been resurrecting that faith under the guise of the Randian entrepreneur hero as the people who remembered the Depression died off. It may take another collapse before peoples’ eyes are again opened to what these people actually are.
-stewartm
If this keeps up it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the people will rise up and move on DC and drag the political class out by their hair to be held accountable to the people once and for all. Elections have proven to be a fool’s errand.
stewartm wrote: This is what happens when you get an “elite” produced from a system that values having more money than sense.
—-
Truer words were never spoken.
Why is it the people who post here (more or less) are so much smarter that those legislaturds we have elected???
“It’s a puzzlement”. The King of Siam. from the “King and I”. R&H
I hear you. The problem is the dumbing down and brainwashing starts in school. It would take a lot for a critical mass of people to wake up. Not sure it will happen. My guess is TPTB will take us to war before enough people wake up
BT: I’m ready. Let’s meet at the Chick-fil-A. I like their cole slaw.
But in what direction will this wave flow? Both parties are less than worthless. They are impediments to the kind of reforms the USA needs to implement.
The USA needs to turn the clock back to 1968. The grand turn towards political reaction began then, and has gather momentum since then. Amazingly, Obama sits far to the right of that vile son-of-a-bitch, Richard Nixon. That fact alone tells us how badly off we are today.
Given the current political configuration of the power elite in America, the rest of us have no way out of the current impasse but to take to the streets.
BT: I want Cantor. Can I have Cantor?????
They are enemies of the poor and the working and middle class and they will atone. They should anyway.
Anybody notice Obama’s demeanor while delivering his latest
manifestomessage? He actually has a slight jollyness about him..while basically telling people they won’t get paid if the debt is not raised. Ofcursecourse, they’ll raise the debt limit…of course, they’ll make cuts to “entitlements”…What bothers me..is his demeanor…it’s a “tell”, and he’s showing his hand…while attempting to “bluff”.AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen David Dayen:
Tremendous post Brother David. From my spot here in the heartland of democracy and the anus of progress, I would just temper your anxiety and disillisionment with a note from the last debate between our insurgent Democrat and one of those 20 year veteran representatives of the “elites” here in the 10th District of Wisconsin. The debate was in the incumbant’s home town in front of the weekly Chamber of Commerce meeting and the representatives of the local business community who represent what I like to call the post WWII middle class nobility actually booed their senator when she in desparation tried to smear her opponent with the charge that she had illegally used her e-mail to politic while teaching.
People in the “conservative” middle class are beginning to get it and I think this very red district is reflective of what is happening all over the country…at least north of the Mason Dixon Line.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THIS ISN’T 1932 GERMANY!!!
Another wave election, eh?
If that is the case, progressives are woefully unprepared. Wave elections, real wave elections, change the tone of debate from Washington all the way down to the smallest town council. Where are the progressive down-ticket candidates? Who is making the case for them to the public? Who is making the case to the public that the conservative project (as opposed to Republican policies) has failed miserably — in domestic policy, fiscal policy, foreign policy, and national security?
All I’m seeing is arguments for who not to vote for, not support for any candidates. Not movement to organize down-ticket campaigns as a way to affect up-ticket races. Or even to organize a down-ticket third-party movement. Not even any attempts to make progressive inroads into the Republican Party. Don’t laugh. What do you think Blue Dogs are in the Democratic Party? That’s right. Conservatives. Why not some lefter-than-Bernie progressives in the Republican Party? File for office; have your supporters move their registration; ignore all loyalty pledges and make that public; and run to win.
We have a Republican party which is doing everything possible to destroy our governmental institution and “send it down the drain”. Then we have the Democratic Party which favors the corporate and wealthy elite who still want a government but one solely devoted to their special interests. Who are the losers in this, the American people who are no longer represented.
wouldn’t it be great if O’s cynical/cowardly maneuvers
‘brought people together’ — to reject BOTH parties!?
bipartisanship = a pox on both their houses
dearest Citizen you are correct, it is not 1932 Germany, it’s 1930-1931 USA
elite failure or betrayal?
maybe it doesn’t matter, as it’s not only the elite who have failed.
What time? I’ll be there, with stickum on my hands for better grip.
Betrayal resulting from narcissism…or something like that…or $$$
re comment above: “everyone agrees there must be cuts”
recognizing failure is a necessary step in the process of learning.
ignorance and hubris.
The bipartisanship is steaming happily, if disastorously along, its two(Hoo Hah!) parties happily entangled in each others arms smitten with each other’s charms …
Perhaps a new Postpartisan Ship might be about to sail, “people” class only, piloted by those who have builded trust and have respect for the people, over money and over brute power?
Merritime providence, anyone?
DW
Yeah, it’s a vicious cycle, isn’t it? The more crazy sh*t happens, the more confounding, illogical decisions that are made, the more we ALL want to retreat to a nice zinfandel and happy movie.
And, I’m sure you’re right about their nipping mass movements in the bud. Yawn, what’s another war?
Progressives have failed too. Sad but true comment, selise.
The zinfindel and movie may not be within our economic reach for much longer.
only sad if we don’t / won’t learn from it.
I read that no country can survive that spends over half of it’s budget on the military. This means we are screwed in a big way. Obummer and his continued wars are destroying this country. Saddest of all there is no reason to be fighting these wars. We have let these generals run this country for to long, time to bitch-slap them and tell them to sit down and shut-up. We need to stop these wars and foreign aid and use this money to repair our country and create jobs.
Can I have McConnell?
Incumbents are at their most dangerous when they have bipartisan agreement, because they know that your anger will hurt both sides equally, and all they care about is relative advantage. Every time that Obama uses the word “bipartisan,” he is setting up conditions whereby the incumbents can do the bidding of the oligarchs, and fearlessly screw the American people.
Oilbummer is at the root of the problem. Inasmuch as I’m against “leadership” and the State being an anarchist, he’s shown to be a complete jellyfish. The best this guy could do is to ease our way into the new system which will have to be created atop the charred remnants of capitalism. Instead, he’s done the opposite. There will no soft landing. We might well HAVE to adopt mutualism and decentralization as the only hope for the survival of mankind.
excellent point.
This reminds of Dorothy, The Lion, The Tin Man, and The Scarecrow. Then they get a look behind the curtain. The majority still don’t realize there is a curtain.
The first step to correcting a problem is admitting that you have one. Judging from what one hears around the left blogisphere, very few progressives believe that Progressives have failed. Anger is (rightfully) directed upward, but there doesn’t seem to be much introspection when it comes to assigning blame.
!
I would not be surprised if these idiots manage to push us into a formal double-dip recession.
After last nights performance, I think we are now watching the flying monkeys!
Not if you look at the record.
To name just a few highlights, taxes for the rich went up under Clinton and down under Obama; income went up at all levels under Clinton, down under Obama; the size of government was reduced under Clinton but metastasized under Obama; the cost of government decreased under Clinton, exploded under Obama; size of the military was reduced under Clinton, burgeoning under Obama; the poverty rate plummeted under Clinton and is hemorrhaging under Obama; we were paying off the deficit under Clinton, not at all under Obama.
The system is going through a shock, the likes of which we haven’t seen since capitalism’s ascendency over feudalism. I’m sure people at that time didn’t realize the transition. But I can assure you, we are now about to see the same transition to a new system. Global warming will make it impossible to sustain a hierarchical, centralized corporate capitalism. This is common sense. Capitalism, as a system, has reached its point of entropy. There will be no resuscitation of a dying beast. They will, of course, try to exploit global markets but this, in the end, will further impoverish developed countries and impoverish even more undeveloped ones. Add in resource wars and that’s the death knell for capitalism.
yep. these dickheads are turning us into Greece as we sit and watch. Krugman hates it when people say that, cuz Greece cannot control its own currency but we can. But just watch how they fuck up what’s left of economic growth. I have to stop writing this I will just blurt out something over the line ….
More and better democrats!!!!
Not.
I don’t remember Clinton trying to cut social security or medicare.
The Revolution is near.
Golden Sacks destroyed Greece. The Greek people get the blame. Americans have to be the most arrogant assholes on the face of the earth–and I’m American.
This website can be the catalyst. Draft Marcy Wheeler.
That’s the ‘eleventy-dimensional chess’ we hear about.
Unfortunately, he’s playing against us (the people).
Well, we are looking for an alternate system to the R and D. I submit we have it. It’s called Tea Party.
So it is possible.
What do the progressives do in response?
Shoot, we’ll be lucky if it’s a double-dip recession. I’m thinking full-blown depression, both here and around the world. Another year or so of austerity is all it’s going to take.
The essence of all strategy is “divide and conquer.”
So long as we go after both parties simultaneously, neither one has anything to fear. American politics is a game of relative advantage. As the game is now structured, they cannot both lose.
It’s like the guy being chased by the bear said to his partner: “I don’t have to outrun the bear; I only have to outrun you.”
Well…things could really go in the other direction. Instead of capitalism ending, a long term transitional feudal system with or without elite driven war against the peasants could be in store for us.
So…what did Marx say comes after capitalism?
That was next on his agenda. I read the quote where he said so, but I don’t have a link. Anyway people say Monica saved Social Security.
none of those in downtown DC. There might be one “licensed” Chick Fil-A inside the GW campus or one waaaay uptown on 6th St. NW. We got a lotta Five Guys and Shake Shacks and 7-11s and Mickey Ds but no Chick Fil-As. Best cole slaw probably on the Sixth & Rye deli food truck.
Both
Reread the story of King Midas.
Not sure that is true. TP is funded by the aristocratic elite, so there is no progressive equivalent.
Ok, we’re screwed.
‘What is to be done?’
Yes, I know. The funding is always the question. But look at the success of that “Party”. They may take over the Speaker of the House.
Seed capital has been the difference in many endeavors.
In any case, even if it minor, it has shown success to this point, to the detriment of the US and it’s Constitution.
The only highlight to all of this is the greedy who are causing this will wind up with suitcases full of money worth absolutely nothing. They have failed to realize that by taking this route they have also destroyed themselves. If Wisconsin is any indication, they have shown there is no low to far down for them to go. They will never be in control because they are destroying the very thing they viewed as power.
Why is it when people borrow that it’s called borrowing but when businesses do it it’s called “investing”?
Sometimes you need to put money into a venture to improve a situation. Surely such a bunch of savvy businessfolk should be aware of that.
As far as I can determine the goal of the conservative movement has been to eliminate government. They believe that government is the problem. Excuse me if I’m wrong, but the way I remember it the absence of government is defined as
Anarchy!
Meh, I’m sure the “liberal” media will give them many, many chances to redeem themselves.
That being said, most conservatives that I know are just as disgusted by the state of our government as I am. We’re not even at odds on how to fix it(vote the bums out.) It’s just the nuance of actually governing in a way that we both agree on that escapes us. It’ll be very interesting to watch my very conservative but fairly kindhearted conservative neighbor squirm since one of both our close friends is a disabled individual who is reliant on a social safety net HIS party is heckbent on destroying.
Yep. That’s what happens after eight years of Republican spend-cut-and-borrow.
We should have taken out credit default swaps on that debt.
Nice. They’re anarchists — except for the uterus.
There, they want government.
You are right. We have been talking & blogging & donating & phone banking & supporting brilliant stealth Google ad tactics, but we have not planned for electing progressives. We knew last December that Obama needed a primary challenge, but couldn’t suck it up to actually organize one. We knew in March that Congress had its head firmly up its ass (I forgot why), but we didn’t start work then to be ready for primary challenges in House & Senate races.
You may be on to something regarding the failure of the elites,( i.e. the wealthy rightwingers) in precipitating this crisis. After the Citizens United decision, the proliferation of soft money fronts like Americans for Prosperity and 60 Plus may have made it more difficult for wealthy donors to effectively control the tea party fanatics they put into Congress . Operating behind a screen of anonymity and commingled funds from several sources , the rich guys funneled cash into congressional races but that same anonymity now means they can’t just call their boys and tell them how to vote. Hence, you have the irony of the Chamber of Commerce expressing alarm over the antics of congressmen they thought they had already bought and paid for. Also, the 24/7 media culture makes it risky for politicians (as Scott Walker learned in the David Koch sting) to ever speak directly to their paymasters. And meantime, crazytalk radio, whose only real interest is market share and profits, continues to spew irrational ideas that were never meant to be taken seriously except by the saps in their audience – but this generates pressure on the tea party reps to stand fast against sanity.
We’ve already got alternative third parties. We don’t need another one that will just dilute the third party vote more.
What we need right now is a coalition of existing third parties on the Left.
Greider in The Nation: Obama’s Bad Bargain…voicing fallacious arguments of the right.
Obama’s Bad Bargain
The most distressing outcome of the deficit hysteria gripping Washington may be what Barack Obama has revealed about himself. It was disconcerting to watch the president slip-slide so easily into voicing the fallacious economic arguments of the right. It was shocking when he betrayed core principles of the Democratic Party, portraying himself as high-minded and brave because he defied his loyal constituents. Supporters may hope this rightward shift was only a matter of political tactics, but I think Obama has at last revealed his sincere convictions. If he wins a second term, he will be free to strike a truly rotten “grand bargain” with Republicans—“pragmatic” compromises that will destroy the crown jewels of democratic reform.
The president has done grievous damage to the most vulnerable by trying to fight the GOP on its ground—accepting the premise that deficits and debt should be a national priority. He made the choice more than a year ago to push aside the real problem—the vast loss and suffering generated by a failing economy.
As a conservative reformer, Obama embraced a bizarre notion of “balance.” The budget cuts he first proposed would have punished the middle class and vulnerable three times with a big stick, shrinking Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits while hitting the wealthy only once with a modest tax increase. When Democrats complained that this wasn’t fair, Obama adjusted the “shared sacrifice” to a dollar-for-dollar ratio. Take a dollar from working stiffs who need these programs, take a dollar from the superrich who don’t need a tax break. How fair is that?
Obama’s facile arithmetic essentially scrapped the Democratic Party’s longstanding commitment to progressive taxation and universal social protections. The claim that cutting Social Security benefits will “strengthen” the system is erroneous. In fact, Obama has already undermined the soundness of Social Security by partially suspending the FICA payroll tax for workers—depriving the system of revenue it needs for long-term solvency.
There is no way in Hades I join a group that doesn’t “get” that Pell grants are a win win situation and call it welfare. Nagunnahappen. The tea party ship sailed for me a long time ago- the last thing I agreed with them on was their anger over the bailouts, back before they got co opted.
I agree.
The most irritating about the SS battle is that Obummer wants to cut the SS paid out but doesn’t want to cut the amount paid in. He views the SS program as a piggy bank to be raided when they overspend. SS would have no problems if the greedy congress would keep their hands out of this fund and quit embezzling this money to pay for their wars.
The way out? Can’t vote for repubs- too batsh@t. Can’t vote for any Dem who supports Obummer or Reids plan. This leaves no one to vote for which is a very bad option.
Time for direct action & civil disobedience? Here in DC one of our Republican former members of DC Council has taken a pledge to stop paying taxes next year if Congress will not give DC a vote in Congress. She has not gotten much attention, I personally hate the whole “tax protestor” meme cuz it’s a good way to get locked up real fast for a nice 3-5 federally paid vacation. But she was so angry and she didn’t know what else to do.
Just askin’ questions here: have rent strikes or mortgage-payment strikes ever been successful? What’s the track record for takeovers of gasoline stations & grocery stores? At least in the short term folks can stock up on cash, gas & food for the Second Depression. A nationwide general strike would just mean nobody stocks up on cash or anything else. But it took a whole lotta striking, starving, begging, living in hobo camps and lining up at soup kitchens for Americans to get through our first Great Depression. Not sure we’re tough enough for any of that now.
I’m afraid there’s a third alternative. Too many people will get angry but will be hypnotized by the rightwing bloviators on the radio and cable.
In Mark 6:34a it says, “As (Jesus) went ashore, he saw a great crowd; and he had compassion for them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd.”
I wish that was the condition of the crowd in this country. But the problem is they do have shepherds, just evil, Rasputin-like ones who are herding them to the slaughterhouse.
Yep- I’m betting it’s exactly what the oligarchs want. Maximize the apathy. They want the bulk of us to come to terms with the idea we are powerless. That way they can continue to rape and pillage any and all resources that might earn them a profit.
you left out George W. Bush. What’s your problem with history?
Why do we need parties at all? Why not recruit an outstanding and moral and brilliant candidate to run as an independent?
Such as, oh, I don’t know… Marcy Wheeler.
See, this is the problem. We’ve been brainwashed to believe that parties are an essential component to our political system. But wasn’t it George Washington who hated the idea of them?
They aren’t essential. We don’t need them. With the internet, we can rocket any independent candidate we want straight to the presidential debates, and smash the two party duopoly. Let’s do it.
Anarchy is against the state. Plus, the Repubs want a capitalist dictatorship, not left wing anarchism, which is all about helping each other out through mutual aid.
I think there’s a low probability for default, considering that would go against the interests of (most of) the plutocracy. But I’ll say this. If it DOES happen, and we DON’T get to the streets, then we are a truly sad bunch.
This is a sadly depressing time. Many supposedly educated people are running around saying the debt is unsustainable and we are going bankrupt. I heard it again this morning on CNN. No one thinks to ask what bankruptcy looks like for the government. On the other side of the ocean, they really can go bust and some of them are.
I think we can fix it here, but I think Europe can’t fix it easily and that will be very bad and truly unsettling. The thing that depresses me though is the prospects of war and unrest. Sooner or later these things are so unsettling they provoke other responses. Our elites or nobles, whatever you want to call them, have no answers – -obviously. They can only propose more auserity and a balanced budget amendment as a “cure”. But the pain from unemployment and cuts will not go away here anymore than in Greece and other Eurozone nations. We can self impose bankruptcy and insolvency on ourselves. And that is what we are doing. Bad times are coming.
There very likely could be another wave election, since the people know that neither party has served us well. So we should try to get educated and progressive people elected and not those who want to go on a quest.
Just sayin.
I was thinking the other day about how Hollywood has changed in how it portrays the CEO.
Take Michael Douglas.
In 1987 he played Gordon Gekko in “Wall Street” who was a villain because he was buying companies and dismantling them.
Then in 1997 He played Nicholas Van Orton in “Wall Street” who was a hero because he was doing hostile take overs. In fact the man whose business he steals, Anson Baer played by Armin Mueller-Stahl, thanks him for doing it.
Finally in 2010 he played Gordon Gekko again in “Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps” who is now an anti-hero even though he steals millions from his own daughter to set himself up doing the same kind of wheeling and dealing as before.
Are you kidding? And what about dependence on foreign fossil fuels under Clintons? Amd what about regulation of derivatives under the Clintons and degregulation of banks under the Clintons.
So far, three of us agree. What do you think about the notion @84 that existing third parties could form a coalition? I’ve seen some remarkable coalition successes which organized homeless men to personally lobby their local elected representatives here in DC. Forced DC Council to restore about $25 million in funding for desperately-needed human services. That model could be replicated.
Do you rememember NAFTA and deregulation of banks
I am for anything that moves us forward.
We don’t need parties, or allied parties, or whatever. We need great candidates. Humans beings. Let’s start with a great independent candidate for president. Who’s with me?
but what do we do in the streets once we get there?
Also, to your @94, we need more than a candidate for preznit, we need to replace whole bunches of incumbents in both parties. We can probably recruit scores of insurgent Dems like they are doing in Wisconsin right now, to try to knock out asshole Republicans, but who do we recruit to knock out asshole Democrats?
Times like these are concerning because they usually are tipping points and sometimes the results of a downtrodden electorate isn’t pretty(See Nazi Germany.) That being said I do have faith in the American people(as odd as that may seem since they seem to do a poor job at electing representation.)
I certainly rememeber him being in favor of it and Clinton through no effort of his own benefited from job growth in the tech sector and job growth in home construction through the efforts of his cronnies at Fannie Mae et al
the reason it’s not enough to just elect a progressive preznit is cuz we need to spend lots of federal govt money to rescue the economy. To spend money, we need the House & Senate.
Otherwise, we need to figure out a way to put money into the economy that does not involve Congress or the White House.
I do. He did a few fucked up things. Not as fucked up as Obama though. Obama’s entire presidency has been an assault on the poor and middle class. And don’t get me started on his heinous civil liberties record.
You guys are way too hopeful. There is no way you can redeem the Dems or this system. It is too far gone. The electoral system is un-fixable. Having said that, there are alternatives.
The problem with just recruiting an independent to run for President without a third party is that it is a top down solution. We need a bottom up solution. We need to fight not just in the Presidential election but at every level from school boards and port commissions through city and county councils to state legislatures and the Congress as well as at the Presidential level.
That means a party. But again, why re-invent the wheel when we have a number of them already? COALITION.
Here’s a few:
Vermont Progressive Party.
California’s Peace and Freedom Party.
Working Families Party (New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, Delaware, South Carolina, Oregon)
The Greens
New York Liberal Party
Labor Party
Democrats offer the GOP over 90% of what they demanded and to Cook, “Never in my memory have both parties and both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue appeared as dysfunctional as they do today [...]“
He’s as full of shit as the Democrats who are offering the 90%. Feed that meme, Charlie.
i don’t know…. trying to think it through. first step i think though is for progressives to have some coherent economic policy. but can’t do that so long as we keep looking to neoliberal economists as our sources.
jmo, but i think we desperately need to directly confront the deficit reduction meme. (see my comment @41).
i’m all for direction action, but not without 1) adequate training and 2) clearly defined demands that make sense ( which means a level of understanding we progressives don’t have that yet).
I heard a Harvard ecoonomics professor on CNN today (XM radio) say that we were going bankrupt. WTF. That was not the first time I have heard it or that the deficit is too high. I heard it the other day on CNN,as well. And this morning on CNBC I heard a guy say that the deficit is “crowding out” (his words) private investment and we need to get gov out of the mix. He even had some stats to “prove” that. I remember being told that in college but even then that was under full employment. Then you hear all the time now that we need a balance budget amendment and austerity. So there is just so much misinfomation out there I don’t know how you break through it. Even our elites speak this nonsense. Maybe you need your economics friends to post here more often and address this stuff. Bottom line is, people don’t understand it. But they know when it’s not working and 16% unemployment means it’s not working.
I’m sure this is old news, but this confirms everything I believe about the DINO, corporatist, President sell(O)ut……..
http://www.presidencynews.com/white-house/obama-problem-with-you-progressives
yes to LibWing @110 and yes to you selise @112.
Is this the place where I should paste in a copy of my email to SEIU President Mary Kay Henry?
I think that the United States is going into a process of disintegration and reorganization similar to what happened to the Soviet Union after the end of the Cold War. Without a single enemy to focus the Soviet’s attention on one goal, the internal contradictions and conflicts among the states and factions came to the surface and began to tear the country apart. The corrupt and dysfunctional leadership was not able to cope with it.
My theory is that instead of “victory in the Cold War”, our country went into its own kind of process of dissolution, just a more lengthy one. It may be that this very strange and crazy situation is part of our own crisis of the disintegration of the American nation and its government. I just don’t know if we will be able to get out of it. A significant group in the country seems to be determined to provoke some kind of breakdown, and the established authorities cannot deal with it, and some of them are even conniving with it.
Someone who’s never held office? And who has not been approved by Bilderberger? Please.
In case you haven’t noticed, we the people don’t decide elections anymore.
This isn’t capitalism. It’s monopoly capitalism; big difference.
Like selise said, we must confront the corrupt & greedy meme that “deficits threaten the economy.” The truth is the opposite. We must spend lots more federal government money to create jobs directly. That is what the Congressional Black Congress (CBC) is finally saying. That is what unions have been saying (although not very loudly and not directly to the preznit). That is what Krugman has been saying. That is obviously what all of us have been saying over here at the Lake.
More government spending to create jobs directly. Revive the Citizens Conservation Corps (CCC). Reactivate the Works Progress Administration (WPA). Deputize the national guards to organize & train workers. Commandeer one or more railroads to transport workers to training, then transport them to work sites.
Yes, we may be bankrupt but that does not mean we are out of money. Lots of bankrupt companies continue to operate while in bankruptcy. They just don’t pay all their creditors right away, but they keep paying their workers and their suppliers. They keep the lights & heat on, they pay their water bill, they pay their phone bill, they operate under emergency conditions.
We have an idiot for preznit who refuses to use his emergency powers under existing federal law. We must demand that the preznit save the country during this emergency. And I don’t mean the fucking “debt ceiling” or the goddam ridiculous fraudulent “downgrade,” I mean the emergency of the country about to plunge into a Second Great Depression, which the preznit can stop by using emergency powers he possesses now under current federal law.
Well, what we do in the streets depends on why we’re in the streets. If these maniacs actually cause a default on debt, then I think it could be time to do more than what you might see at, say, a peace rally.
We don’t control the voting machines. Haven’t you figured this out yet?
Yes. The nihilists in the Republican caucus in the House of Representatives, now joined officially by the idiotic Speaker who has publicly demanded a Balanced Budget Amendment as ransom for raising the debt ceiling.
Fuck the debt ceiling, we need jobs and we need them this summer. Now. August 2011. The President has existing emergency powers that allow him to directly hire workers, put them on the federal payroll, and inject demand into the national economy.
I agree. 95% of these assholes need to be replaced. But you have to start somewhere. I say, go right after the top guy. You can’t change the policies that rule us until you can change the ideas that rule us. Right now, lefty views are nowhere to be found among the elite. A truly and unapologetically progressive president would expand the overton window left, thus creating a huge amount of space for 100s of future independent and progressive candidates to pop up every where, and take down these garbage politicians.
Don’t forget the false flag terror attacks, either (Waco, OKC ’95). Or spending all the extra FICA taxes after 1984 and leaving the So-So security trust fund with I.O.U.s, or repealing Glass-Steagall, or implementing a fascist, federally funded police state to be implemented in stages (just now coming online, just in time for the food riots in the fall).
A few fucked up things. Yeah, tell that to Vince Foster and Ron Brown.
No, I have noticed. But the fact that I still believe change is possible is why I’m commenting on this blog right now.
I’m sorry, but I’ve been hearing “we need a bottom up solution” for so many years, and really, it doesn’t have any actual evidence to back it up.
We don’t have time to win 100s of local races for the fucking green party. We should push an indy candidate right into the presidential debates, and smash this system with a giant hammer.
I’m really just not interested in parties. There’s absolutely no need for them. There are plenty of great people out there, and with the internet, social networking, youtube, and small dollar fundraising, indies can succeed.
To end your suspense, since I know everyone was just dying to see what I told SEIU…..
In response to today’s action alert from SEIU urging phone calls to Senators to beg them to protect Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid (SSMM), I told SEIU that Senators won’t do anything more than the House to protect SSMM, because the Senate currently only has the Harry Reid bill. Reid’s bill is just as bad as the House bill with respect to SSMM because Reid’s bill allows Catfood Commission II to be a Super-Congress and propose cuts to SSMM which Congress would then be forced to vote up or down without any hearings, committee reports or amendments.
We could do both what you want and what LibWing wants. At least three of us agree with you on the basic strategic failures that have occurred (passive voice — don’t wanna start finger-pointing). LibWing had a very promising idea about building coalitions for the down-ballot races. Just because we like your idea to run an Indy for preznit does not mean we must reject LibWing’s idea for the down-ballot races. Don’t make it either/or.
On behalf of the Firedoglake Independent Party of America, I nominate Mary Kay Henry, President of Service Employees International Union (SEIU), as our next President of the United States.
This is so right on. However, we have so many bright and curious young people. People who will be forced to see this as a humanitarian crisis rather than an America is the number one most powerful nation in the world crisis. Because for every bright, curious, freedom loving young adult in the US there 8 more around the world. And those 8 have a voice they never had before. I myself know several young adults who are changing the world and as a Baby Boomer who has never lost the values we fought for in the 60s and 70s I am excited to watch those values resurface and this time actually change the world.
I was chomping at the bit for pitchforks and torches during the first term of Bush the lesser. But the economy was still good then and people could afford the bread and circuses and no one would join me. I’ve done the letter writing, phone calling, educating other road for 25 years. I’m tired, I’m exhausted. I work full time and freelance and it all adds up to a 7day work week most weeks. I still get infuriated with the stupid, ignorant, ill informed things that these political clowns say (and get away with unchallenged in the main street media – ATTN: Media – it is not misconstrued, or misspoke – IT IS THAT THEY LIED!It is not libel or slander to point that out!)
I find myself withdrawing just to protect my health. And I fear that is what will happen to the masses. It is like when insurance companies wear you down when you try to file a claim, hoping you will give up. That is what the elites want. We can’t be distracted by bread and circuses anymore so they will shock doctrine us into accepting whatever crumbs they are willing to provide and make us happy to accept them.
The only hope is that while it is one thing to control people who never had anything, it is much harder to control people who once had decent pay, decent homes, a little vacation and a nice ride once you snatch it all away.
Especially when they find out you stole it from them and lied about it.
This is not a correct reading of the situation. Unfortunately, the United States is to blame for the global mess – don’t you remember Goldman Sachs and Greece? Certainly, the folk in various countries (not Iceland) have had the same issues but does it not all stem from corporations being allowed to get larger than countries, and we did that, we unregulated them.
The buck stops here.
I was posting in response to cmaukomen at #15. Unfortunately my post did not link there. Here is the paragraph of David’s piece to which I was responding. (For the Greece reference above, see Matt Taibi).
“And incidentally, we’re seeing this kind of failure in Europe and throughout the world; it’s not unique to the United States. Yes, we have a pathetic couple of political parties, and a cult of balance in corporate-run media that poisons the discourse. But institutions all over the world, at every level, have been rotting for some time, and the same elites who have failed the world have pressured these institutions into acting on their behalf.”
As has been often commented, the Shock Doctrine tactics, which worldwide are currently in operation, originated with Milton Friedman and the Chicago Boys, who actually travelled worldwide but had their home right here.
Pardon me for additionally commenting on your final paragraph, David:
“And it drives a sense of helplessness among the public, something I see and hear every single day, which could go one of two ways. It could result in people massing together, rebuilding a mass movement to end the careers of those who put us in this predicament, or it could result in a mass pulling back. People could retreat to other pursuits, places where they can maintain a modicum of control. This of course plays right into the hands of unaccountable elites, giving them practically everything they want. I reject it totally. But that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.”
Seems to me that we can do both, David, and in fact given the dimensions of the problem, we must. Local initiatives which don’t challenge the elites directly but give strength to communities of people outside of government gridlock are really important – we could all go insane or burn out completely otherwise.
The world of high finance in which the manipulators move is not real. So, sure, we reject giving the elites practically everything they want, but we do so out of our strengths, outof that ‘modicum of control’ which restores our sanity. Not either/or; both.
Thanks, Fractal!
I had to actually work for a while and couldn’t keep up on the comments, but I wanted to post something like you did.
To Roxster I want to say that you are absolutely right that we need some one at the top of the ticket who is charismatic, committed and correct.
What I think is that we need to get several folk together for a big meeting to kick this off.
Here’s my current short list of who should be invited: Michael Moore, Jane Hamsher, Cynthia McKinley, Ralph Nader, Bernie Sanders, and Leo Gerard.
Plus the reason we do the bottom up thing too is that we need to think long term, not just for 2012. Movement building takes time.
What you are experiencing in Washingto now has been the creation of the Republicrat. It is a hybrid This is the blending of an donkey and and elephant. How can that be? You just have to figure how deep to dig the hole.
This freak of nature will be the new norm, and the current president will set the rules for future behavior for this new creature that will make all the president’s and their past policy moot for generations to come.
I was checking into the Green Party this morning. I’m thinking of checking out the local monthly county meeting this month to try to find an alternative to the Dems. Ultra small but I guess you have to start somewhere.
Bloomberg is the only canidate that fits your bill but he is not interested in a run at this point.