Texas Republican Rick Perry must be slavering to thug-out about this. Will he hold fire? Or will he “jump ugly.”

Hmmm. My recollection of jumping ugly in Texas involves pick-up trucks and rope.

Clyburn better not call or send notes here. He’s gone in my eyes.

Isn’t strange how those elites don’t want to pay for the wars? Oh, but we can’t bring the troops home. Nope! Military leaders are practically begging Iraq to the let them stay a while longer. Read this link, it may appear off topic but it is not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-iraq-electricity-idUSTRE77G39220110817?feedType=RSS&feedName=GCA-GreenBusiness&rpc=43

Instead of taxing the coporations and elites that benefit more than us regular citizens from these types of things, they are going to take more and more from us.

If there are any South Carolina Dems that held onto a sliver of hope that Clyburn would represent them, he just cut the strings!

I think Buffett has a point, at 17.4% he’s not paying his share.

For 2008, the IRS itself reports:

For returns reporting positive adjusted gross income, the top 1 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 23.3 percent; the top 10 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 18.7 percent; and the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 2.6 percent.

Americans like LEADERS and not people who will just talk about how others can improve things. They expect those people to lead by example.

I have tremendous respect for Buffet and Bill Gates for what they did with philanthropic giving. They not only asked others to give, but they ponied up, put their money where their mouths were, and actually GAVE away billions of dollars. THEN they asked others to follow their lead.

Why Buffet can’t just do the same thing with his tax bill (where we are talking about three orders of magnitude LOWER than his charitable giving), just amazes me. He could immediately double his tax payment and it would amount to about $7 million (not Billion). It tells me that he really just wants to talk the talk and not walk the walk.

We have plenty of people in this country who are happy to talk about what other people should do with their money. I was hoping Buffet was not one of them.

Come on, now. You’re not suggesting that the top 1 % pay MORE than their fair share, both as a % and as a gross dollar amount, are you? Tut tut. That won’t fly on this board.

These Catfooders are going to ignore the needs of Americans so they can compromise to further destroy the economy — all for the benefit of Republicans. Fine. Go ahead. Pretty soon people will get desperate enough because they have no jobs and no money that they’ll walk into supermarkets, just take what they need and then walk out. But I’m sure that these great American leaders will write an Op-Ed piece about all the “criminals” illegally feeding their families.

I will be glad to spit in the face of every politician I see from now on — that’s MY Op-Ed.

On Thom yesterday Peter Ferrara (why does he give this nut airtime?) claimed that Warren doesn’t know anything about economics, and he must not have a tax adviser. “So, what, you think he goes to H&R Block?!”

This actually fits right in line with the US Chamber of Commerce’s call for a “grand bargain” that would include a restructuring of the tax code which “should not single out specific industries or individuals for punishment.” And of course, it would also have cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security

That is a direct insult to G. Norquist. He is probably not happy with the COC comments here. Today is Wednesday when he usually has his little followers meet up. Can’t wait to see how he handles this one.

“If this is the best they’ve got, this childish “If you like high taxes rates so much, why don’t you marry them?” argument, they don’t have much at all.”

Just to point out, Cornyn and Cantor were basically making the exact same point made by Liz Berry and many others here at FDL. Funny when different camps make the same argument. . .

“Progressive taxation” is correct. The wealthy give up a quarter of their income and the bottom fifty percent only two percent? Should the wealthy give up half their income to a bloated government? The principal problem is spending, but DDayen wants the government to spend more.

I think you’re conflating Federal Taxation with Federal Income Taxation. The poor pay much more in Federal Taxes than they do in Federal Income Taxes.

But you already knew that, didn’t you? Never let facts get in the way of a good talking point, huh?

No, only that Buffett pays less.

Lot of talk about tax rates but what is the real tax on the net income of the wealthy after exemptions and deductions are figured in? The loopholes in the tax code weren’t written for the working class.

I watched the Charlie Rose show, I listened to Buffet, I was disappointed to hear him reinforce the same old ‘let’s be reasonable’ meme concerning SS, and medicare ‘reform’.

Yes, he did say the rich are paying less than their fair share, but he made no effort to clarify the fact that the reason the rich pay less than their fair share is their unfair, and near total control over our political processes which have also resulted in a corrupt and parasitic economy that is based at the moment on criminal extraction of wealth from the American middle-class, by the uber-wealthy, and that, by any means imaginable.

The average person listening to ‘Grandpa Buffet’ could not be blamed for coming away believing that the ‘unrealistic expectations’ of SS recipients are somehow equivalent to, and as much a problem as the low taxes paid by the rich.

The fact that, for decades, the rich have not paid their fair share of the taxes necessary to keep our nation healthy, that the bankers have used control of our government to allow their predation of the middle-class, and that they have enriched themselves by waging expensive wars with borrowed money, are the root causes of our nation’s economic ills, not the completely reasonable expectations of average Americans as concerns SS and healthcare.

I came away from watching the Buffet interview believing that Buffet/Norquiist are a perfect example of the Good-Cop/Bad-Cop method of manipulating public opinion.

What are you talking about? The subject is income tax rates.

Heck, there are some mighty big loopholes out there. Closing them would most likely result in an increase in revenue stream. I sincerely believe the Bush tax cuts should be repealed, no doubt, but if all I can get is loophole closure, I’ll take it as a start. But ONLY as a start.

Ah, ‘twould seem the PAPS (Piss-Ant Pip-Squeak) brigade is in fine fettle, today …

Taxing their wee minds, taxing our patience, and tax-messaging absolute drivel.

Best not to feed the wee thingies as they’re liable to stay around long after they should be astutely engaged upon bettering themselves … following the example of those whom they profess to admire and wish to emulate. We wouldn’t wish to contribute to their bitterness at the rank unfairness of everything, now would we?

;~DW

Unless we have another Great Depression or the bottom 90% start voting for people who are also in the bottom 90% nothing will ever change. Fairness and Ethics have not been elements of Capitalism since before Jay Gould so Democracy is our only hope. Robberbarons own the major media and the political power.

Actually, I think they’re already bitter old men cuz their dreams of being rich and famous like Buffet didn’t work out.

Great line from Wall of Voodoo’s Call of the West:

“Hey, don’t walk away. I used to be somebody.”

“Regressive Taxation” is what we have. The wealthy lobby congress to give them such deductions and loop holes that result in little or no tax (ie. GE). Should the middle class bear the burden of government that provides not only for retires and the poor but also for national security? The principle problem is the greed of the wealthy and donbacon @10 wants them to be able to continue to free load off of the middle class. Funny how framing the question changes everything?

And please explain how the poor pay more in any taxes than the rich do, period. Not that I’m defending the rich here, but I think your math is just a slight bit…alien?

Failed bootstrappery is always so dismal and contemptuous, SD, but, in a way … it becomes them.

Quite.

DW

Government should not be beholden to the charity of individuals in order to fund itself. Such a process would give far too much power to the elite and aside from that, a single person giving to the Government in order to make a point would merely be incidental and wouldn’t fix any of the structural revenue problems we’ve got.

Yes, RFK1968, I do wish that Buffet had pointed out that the happy largess showered upon the super-rich by Congress … came at a price. Perhaps ’twas merely “peanuts” for the lucky wealthers, but it has cost the rest of us a great deal … in any number of ways.

DW

Democrats aren’t “enamored” either, judging by their extension of BushCo’s tax cuts. It’s hard to put your political opponents down when you’re doing their dirty work for them.

Appreciate your comments on the other thread re utopia. Much thought went into those. I’m just frustrated with her and it shows.

Buffett made it quite plain that he supported the recommendations of Simpson-Bowles. Indeed, since Simpson-Bowles wanted to lower tax rates on the rich, he wound up contradicting his original point about the rich and taxes, because he didn’t say he excluded that particular recommendation they made. He implied that entitlements need to be cut. It was a pretty conservative, Wall Street friendly interview on such points …

Hell, the GOP has locks on the board. They own Obama and the democrats. Why should they settle for a flat tax, when they can get practically anything they want, and are looking at a huge sweep in 2012?

I’m relying upon the figures that alan1tx published above (without link).

For 2008, the IRS itself reports:

For returns reporting positive adjusted gross income, the top 1 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 23.3 percent; the top 10 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 18.7 percent; and the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers had an average tax rate of 2.6 percent.

Also, in 2007, the top 1 percent paid more in federal income tax than the bottom 95 percent. In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes.

Because what would Warren Buffett know about investment decisions?

The best investment decisions are ones that are guaranteed and back stopped by the rest of us. Warren trades on inside information. He’s no better than Obama, offering words but little in the way of action.

Warren is part of the problem. How easy for people here to buy into the Obama-Republican good cop bad cop meme? The billionaires do the same to us, even the so-called philanthropists.

Maxkeiser keeps a critical eye on Buffet. Is it too much to ask people here to educate yourselves that the billionaires didn’t get that way being compassionate and moral. Billionaire philanthropist is an oxymoron. Billionaire who knows how to milk public sentiment, quiet his or her conscience, and suck off tax loopholes and breaks is closer to truth. Billionaire hoarding is a disease, but instead of cats, it’s cash.
http://maxkeiser.com/tag/warren-buffett/

What was the total net income the top 1% paid taxes on? What was the total gross income?

What was the total net income the bottom 95% paid taxes on? What was the total gross income?

Using percentages only can be misleading.

It sounds like you heard what I heard.

“If Warren Buffet wants to pay more taxes and send more of his money to Washington, why doesn’t he just do it?” tweeted Brad Dayspring, a spokesman for House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.)

Because he doesn’t have to, jack wads! He wants the government make him and others do it. Geez!

Why listen to Warren Buffett? We’re going to budget cut our way to prosperity. I would put that on a bumper sticker, but who would buy them? Consumers are tapped out.

Additionally,

What was the total amount paid in taxes by the top 1%?

What was the total amount paid in taxes by the bottom 95%?

I talked to my niece. She’s pretty smart. She said, “Cutting government spending in the middle of a recession is quite likely NOT going to produce jobs, but, instead, cause increased unemployment as local, state and the federal gvernment lay people off”.
..
..
She’s in the third grade. She’s 9.

As I said, in my last comment over “there”, SD, it is important to hear the “feedback” of those who truly understand, as you do.

I share that frustration, frankly, and find, I confess, too many occassions when it arises in my spirit with those who should be wise enough, if not old enough, to understand the fluid nature of time and opportunity.

I have found your comments, over much time, to be consistently and deeply compassionate on levels that you and I need not put into words.

DW

Income amounts are OT — the subject is income taxes. Selectively quoting supportive people, as DDayen is doing with Buffett, is not meaningful for formulating policy.

How do you figure income amounts are OT? What are taxes paid on if not income?

Do you not want to see the disparity between the two groups?

Nice try, though.

I think so …

Donbacon wants the rest of us NOT to see the disparity.

That is donbacon’s sole purpose, SD.

Nothing else.

DW

I am so tired of the neoliberal/neoconservative/faux libertarian horseshit.

Back to work.

Namaste

It isn’t worth engaging, SD, simply because the majority of those wee minds which embace such selfish amd greedy notions are closed to both fact and perspective.

DW

It takes years of indoctrination to spout the kind of nonsense the rest of us know instinctively is untrue.

Maybe political commentary would benefit from straight talking kids.

In fairness to Clyburn, he says he supports letting the Bush tax cuts expire, which would increase the top marginal rate from 35% to 39.6%.

Do you ever entertain a notion to discuss facts instead of disparaging those who have the “bad manners” to disagree with you? Apparently the FDL moderator is AWOL, allowing you to avoid issues.

This is a non-sensical argument of donating. That is a personal choice and will not have any impact pretty much on debt nor Government will know in advance on how much it can get through this route.

If Republicans or Democrats really wanted lower taxes and better standard of living they should have blocked Iraq war right at the start. Now bills are due and we have to pay for them. Do not push it out for next generation or suffer a lower quality of life.

BTW if there are loop-holes one has to be stupid not to take advantage of it. Everybody tries to minimize their tax situation and increase take-home pay, for that matter anybody who is smart. It is the Government job to close the loop-holes, obtain revenue in a fair graded equitable manner keeping in view the long term interests of the country.

In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes.

What percentage of all the federally taxable income did they have?
Wasn’t it something like 40-45%?

Your argument might benefit from acknowledging that government is not separate from the billionaire individuals and corporations, you know, the ones who pull the strings behind the scenes.

It is the Government job to close the create new loop-holes, obtain revenue in a fair graded equitable manner by stealing it from those least able to afford it and keeping in view the long term interests of the country the most important people are focused on short term gain despite having longterm personal interests as well.

Buffett, like all rapacious billionaire$$, is acting solely and only on his own behalf (which happens to inure to the benefit if his fellow theiving billionaire$$$). PTOUI!!!

Buffett makes soothing noises about making the progressive tax rates more fair, which sounds good, until you continue opening his Pandora’s box and realize that Buffett just wants to rip off YOUR & MY Soc Sec & Medicare in the process. Like: Let’s ROB Peter (i.e., that would be YOU & ME, the middle/working class) to PAY Paul (i.e., that would be Buffett & his greedy rich pal$$), but we’ll FOOL the rubes, yet again, by “making soothing noises” about tax rates ‘n stuff.

Did I say: PTOUI!!!!

Beware any Buffett making soothing noises. It’s an ill wind that blows NO good, believe me.

And I have lost NO love on billionaire$$$ like Bill Gates who appear to be all “philanthropic-y” ‘n stuff. That kind of “philanthropy” is only done in ways, which ENRICH Bill Gates, and pushes the meme that the elites shouldn’t have to pay taxes, and then they can cherry pick the “cause” that they “feel like” supporting whenever the mood takes them. And then we serfs should slaver at their feet, tugging our forelocks with our eyes properly downcast, and thanking the great “Massa” for tossing a few sheckles in our general direction.

That’s a hell of a way to run a railroad, and it doesn’t keep the nation running well, either.

PTOUI!!!!

Agree on all of your points, which are well made.

Of course ANY citizen will take advantage of known tax loopholes. You’d be a fool not to.

“Philanthropy” and charity are all very well, but THAT is not the “solution” to running a nation. It’s a totally bogus argument, and citizens would be do well to question their “gratitude” to CROOKS like Bill Gates just bc it looks like he donates money to some cause or another. Dig a little deeper into those causes, and you’ll quick note the pattern, whereby Gates is getting a big return on his “investment.”

Did I say: PTOUI!!!!

Warren Buffett is the left’s lovable pirate.

Except he isn’t some fanciful Disney pirate, he’s the real deal. It’s damn embarrassing to see anyone fawning over his words. Might as well love Obama for his words as well, they’re worth about the same.

From Warren, below, who really cares about America, er, um, I mean his billions and could give a damn about Americans.

So, again, Uncle Sam, thanks to you and your aides. Often you are wasteful, and sometimes you are bullying. On occasion, you are downright maddening. But in this extraordinary emergency, you came through — and the world would look far different now if you had not.

Your grateful nephew,

Warren

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/opinion/17buffett.html

Not sure why there’s so much praise for Buffett.

His plan to increase taxes on the rich is fine.

People forget that his plan is also to cut spending on social services–medicare, medicaid, social security.

If anything, his “plan” sounds much like Obama’s: increased revenues with cuts.

Here’s what Buffett said:

“Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can’t fulfill. Big money must be saved here.”

It’s maddening to see people falling for these oligarchs.

Why does the so-called left seem to pledge allegiance to this guy and consider him an ally?

If all it takes is spouting some occasional rhetoric to defend his class of thief, what does that say about us?

Damn straight. Obama and Buffett are tag teaming the rest of us. Birds of a feather is what they are.

Again, the subject is income tax and not income. Like it or not, the U.S. is a place without limits on income, and the fact is that those who have the highest income provide a large percentage of the federal income tax receipts.

I suppose that one could make the argument that since the wealthy provide a high percentage of the income, they ought to have a greater influence on policy. And so they do, because the Supremes have ruled that money is speech, proving the adage that money talks (and to me it says goodbye).

I suppose that one could make the argument that since the wealthy provide a high percentage of the income, they ought to have a greater influence on policy.

What kind of anti-American anti-democratic simpleton would make such an argument, just curious?

The SCOTUS crossed lines not meant to be breached. I feel very confident that some of their decisions will be seen as treasonous when the US returns to some semblance of sanity.

Part of your argument may be correct as to the reality but it seems blind to right versus wrong and with respect to the Constitution despite whatever rationalizations can be pretzeled to suit one’s ideology.

Let’s use those percentages on some income and see how bad/ well off a worker who is paying 2.5% from the bottom 50 or a person from the top 1% paying 23.3% is?

Let’s take Jamie Dimon, an overpaid banking executive, his compensation for 2010 was 20.8 million. His cut of taxes would be a little under 5 million. That leaves him just a mere 16 million to live on during the year. Awwwwwwww that would be rough. How in the world will he be able to find housing with that sum? (Tongue firmly in cheek)

Now, lets take the average “overpaid” union employee. Let’s pick on the average Wisconsin teacher who according to CNS news made $75, 587. Her income liability would be much less. If we make her a bottom 50%er than she owes 1889. That would leave her a little under $74,000. I think it might be harder for her to lose the $2000 than it is for Jamie to lose his 5 million.

I won’t even get into how the poor Burger King employee has gotten screwed since “technically he isn’t paying any taxes” even as they’ve been taking his excess retirement contributions paid out from FICA and using it to salvage Dimon’s sorry backside.

No, I’d say Dimon got the best for his money. He may have paid 5 million but without government interference he wouldn’t even have a company to work for anymore.

The compensation that people like Dimon reap is obscene.

When children in this country die due to lack of health care and elderly people cannot pay their electric bills to heat and cool their homes,it is a moral outrage that the wealthiest are not expected to contribute MUCH more.

I am not a religious person, but I believe that yes, we are all our brothers’ keepers. To hoard that level of excess wealth is, to me, the very definition of sin.

You don’t PLEA for progressive taxation.

You DEMAND it.

Pretty much.

Dimon’s compensation in one year is more than what 17 people working at $40,000 per year($19.23 per hour) for 30 years make in a lifetime.

The facts of your behavior, evident in your comments, donbacon, speak rather loudly for themselves, not just to me … but to everyone here present.

I calls ‘em like I see “em, and you clearly have either not been paying honest and humane attention for a considerable period of time … or else you intend, for blatant political and narrow and very selfish economic “reasons”, as I pointed out, VERY POLITELY, to suggest that simplistic notions, in some splendid isolation, for example, suggesting that taxes have no relation to income (and as well the “ability” to “buy” influence) and are the “entirety” of the “topic”.

If you find MY commentary to be offense, then you have several choices, you may do, as I generally do with regard to YOUR comments, which is, to SIMPLY ignore them … OR you may hie yourself thither to some more happy place where your opinions, for such they are, may have a “better” and more friendly “reception”. (As, if you are paying any attention to anything more than your own “clever” comments, you will have noticed that my comments are, for the most part, apparently, fairly well-received … “here”. Should you be so inclined, you might ponder upon why that is so …)

The choice is yours.

Stay and ignore or … leave and explore.

You may do as you wish …

You already know what I shall continue, with this one exception, to do.

DW

Buffet says he should pay more in taxes and then sets up foundations to avoid doing just that. Isn’t that special?

According to a recent Forbes article, the wealthiest 400 Americans pay of average of 18% of their income in Federal taxes. http://blogs.forbes.com/robertlenzner/2011/07/25/the-400-richest-americans-pay-an-18-tax-rate/

Now what do you think a minimum wage earner pays? Well they pay 15.3% of their income in Social Security taxes, half of this is hidden from them, but they pay 15.3%.

For a middle class person, making around $100,000 per year, they are paying approximately 21% average income tax, and 15.3% Social Security tax, or about 36%. Double what the wealthiest Americans pay.

Most interesting, we always are told by the wealthy how much they pay, and how little everyone else pays. This is a lie. Warren Buffett, the third wealthiest person in the world, points out his marginal tax rate is lower than his secretaries. Social Security taxes account for 40% of federal revenue, and income tax provides 41%. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/

So we have an extremely regressive tax system. The poorest pay the same percentage of income as the wealthiest, and the middle classes pay far more.

Of course the wealthy want to cut Social Security payments rather than remove the salary cap on taxation. If we remove the Social Security cap on salary income, we might go ahead and tax the ”unearned” income of wealthy at the same time. If we apply the 15.3% Social Security tax to the wealthy, they then would be paying 18% + 15.3% =33%. Now the wealthy would have to pay about the same tax rate as a middle class individual.

Most interesting, we always are told by the wealthy how much they pay, and how little everyone else pays. This is a lie. Warren Buffett, the third wealthiest person in the world, points out his marginal tax rate is lower than his secretaries.

Because she doesn’t have any way to hide income like he does. He always seems to fail to mention that. How about he dissolve his foundations, (vehicles which his assistant likely isn’t wealthy enough to funnel her income into)?

Buffet is saying one thing and doing another.

As a counter to Grover’s “No New Taxes”, progressives should demand every Congressman should sign a pledge “No Regressive Taxation”. And our fearless leader President should be required to sign it to.

I like Warren Buffett. He is illuminating the single largest problem of our time. “Tax Cuts” are an entitlement for the wealthy. Raise taxes on the wealthy, cutting them for everyone else, until we have Progressive taxation, not Regressive taxation.

I like Warren Buffett. He is illuminating the single largest problem of our time.

What, that he can and does funnel his income into a tax exempt foundation? Yet he claims to want to pay higher taxes? Wake up and smell the coffee

Buffett made it quite plain that he supported the recommendations of Simpson-Bowles

Can you provide a link for that? The most I’ve seen Buffett say about that is it was a “rational start” as an attempt to address the deficits in a planned manner rather than having a gun held to your head as was done in the recent kabuki debt hostage show. I would not call that support for Simpson Bowels, per se.

I think so many here need to wake up. Buffett is not in the hair-shirt business. He’s an investor, a very sucessful one who used the laws in place to make himself money on solid investments. He does not push bullshit as so many did recently with the CDS and mortgage bubbles nor have I seen him buy companies, saddle them with debt, then cash out as so many grifters do (legally).

He is one of the few Oligarchs in that statosphere speaking up for better, more progressive, government regulations to make his class pay more for the golden goose that has been so good to them. Things that will help us all, in the overall scheme.

So, please, try to rub the misapplied purity troll shit from your eyes an try to appreciate what he has been saying very consistently for years, if not decades. It’s a real positive, ya know. Chripes.

Should the wealthy give up half their income to a bloated government?

No, I say back to Eisehower: they should give up 90% of their income to a underfunded and starved government burdened with neo-CON agendas of wars & Empire and CONservative agendas of welfare for Corporatiosn and the wealthy. In addition, a wealth tax to start draining the fetid swap of too much wealth in too few hands.

Buffet is saying one thing and doing another.

No, he isn’t, you disengenuous hack. Buffett is pointing out that for two people in the same system the one who makes so much more, like he, has many more advantages to shield his income from taxation. He is then saying, again and again, year after year, that it is not right and should be addressed for those of his class thru the power of government, and not reliant on sopme spirit of charity. BTW, he’s giving much away to charity and not passing very much onto his heirs.

Perhaps you should try to find some other target to piss on, because with this, all you are doing is pissing in a wind that is blowing back upon you!

Buffet did say entitlement programs needed to be reined in. He said even the wealthy would not be able to afford what Americans were being promised.

I disagree with him. Social Security thus far has been self sustaining and would likely continue to be so if all of the income on folk like Dimon’s compensation were taxed accordingly. As it stands they are making projections on a percent of the workforce that hasn’t even been born yet. 25 years out is dependant on alot of unknown variables.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11845

What? And make poor Jamie live on 2 million a year? Blasphemy! ;)

He’s a savvy businessmen and they deserve all their compensation. It’s only teachers that toil in the classrooms or nurses who care for the elderly or workers who work at automotive factories that are greedy for demanding pensions, health care, and exhorbiant living wage(that works out to far less over a lifetime than a CEO gets compensated in one year.)

I am not saying our system of compensation for work is not out of whack, it is, badly. No one is worth the money these people make, Buffett included. Still, it happens so you can either be a Koch, fucking everyone while twisting the world to your peculiar view or a Buffett who is working on giving much away (a point: I appreciate but do not care much for charity, it shows a lack in our society’s collective government, in us) while calling on his class to be made to pay more in taxes back to our government. Which would you rather have? Really, some here are either misguided idiots or trolls trying to undermine what Buffett is saying.

So, people who want to burn Buffett because he has not crippled himself enough for their tastes should really try other, much more worthy targets. At least he is saying something about the disparity and the way the wealthy are treated vs. the rest of us. Buffet has been a steady, savvy investor who was not predisposed to quick profit schemes or techniques with no substance. He succeeded very well within the framework presented and I do not see him purposefully impoverishing communities with these investments, as is often the case. Him calling for the tax rates on his class to be increased is a ray of sunshine, frankly, whatever his motivations.

He could have left his heirs billions, so yeah, they won’t starve, but they will not exactly be the Waltons, Forbes, or Kochs, either. That’s probably a good thing as second generation often seems to exhibit all the sense of entitlement without any of the humility earned by living and growing up as most of the rest of the population.

I suspect Buffett is neither angel or Devil.

I appreciate that he admits we all don’t have a level playing field but I don’t for a minute believe that his attempts to bring attention to this fact aren’t motivated by self interest.

Still intellectual honesty among the top 1% wherein they admit they are coddled is a rare thing I give Buffett credit for saying it out loud. Even as I disagree with his premise that we can not support a safety net for the most vulnerable of our society as we have done for over 5 decades.

Thanks for the link, here’s the transcript if you don’t want to listen for 50+ minutes.

I see a guy who believes in this system (and why should he not) but also knows it badly out of whack and is calling for changes. I, we, may not agree with all he says or who he supports, but there is a lot there that I can agree to. It’s pretty honest. For example:

BUFFETT: No, no, it should be a land of opportunity and people that get rich, nobody’s going to confiscate everything or anything of the sort but the distribution in this country, the market system has led to extremes. A guy that’s wired like me — I don’t have any special status in this world. I’m not a great nurse, a great teacher may be much more valuable to society than I am. I’m wired so I can figure out what things are worth.

ROSE: Allocate capital.

BUFFETT: Yes. I get super rich and somebody whose adenoids are in a certain arrangement gets rich but television makes a lot of people rich. …
:
We — everybody in this country owes their good fortune in some way to the rest of the country.

Or this…

ROSE: You also make the point that in so many corporations that their biggest investment is not in plants and equipment it’s in lobbyists in Washington. So therefore they get deductions so that their effective tax rate is also much less whatever the maximum corporate tax rate is.

BUFFETT: Yes. Well, that’s true and they’re entitled, incidentally, to try and — I mean, there’s a big rule book up there and if the rule book has flaws in it, the thing to do is change the rule book, not count on everybody to be on the honor system.I mean the rule book is what counts. I’m probably creating a lot of business for lobbyists now because they’ll be very busy defending the present situation. But I think it’s the rule book that has to be looked at.

Yes, I see where he likes Simpson and Bowles for their work on the committee. I do not agree with this… charade, when so many other things are so far out of whack. It would seem to me that Buffett can learn things, also and probably would if it really came to it.

Regardless, I will say it again, you don’t have to agree with all he says, but his candor is amazing and I would rather have what he is saying pushed forward than what the Kochs, Forbes, Coors, Mellon-Scaife, etc. are pushing. Several here are throwing the baby out with the bathwater when dealing with Buffett. Just dumb, or disengenuous.

I appreciate that he admits we all don’t have a level playing field but I don’t for a minute believe that his attempts to bring attention to this fact aren’t motivated by self interest

Who isn’t motivated by self-interest as defined by their beliefs? It’s just how life works. The point is are these motivations harming people, society, or helping it? No action will be 100% one way, but there is a direction as to where it lies, for certain.

Perhaps his motivation is to see a system survive that has rewarded him so well. Perhaps he knows many changes are required if that is to happen, including the wealth distribution problem. As He said:

Buffett: I really think this country works wonderfully on a market system. We don’t want to give it up. Indeed, we have to control that market system in many ways. But it works. It works with the kind of incentives we have. It works with equality of opportunities. It’s not perfect. We’ve tried for it all the time.

But the lucky ones still prosper incredibly disproportionately. I’m not for having some kind of a czar in Washington besides what’s proper but I do think something that thinks about the 60 million people that are living at $21,000 a year or less in their household. I think a rich, rich, rich society should think about them a little bit every day.

Also, as you said:

Even as I disagree with his premise that we can not support a safety net for the most vulnerable of our society as we have done for over 5 decades

I totally agree with this. SS works incredibly well, and needs to be strengthed by lifting the cap, increasing benefits, and bringing the retirement age down, not up.

I don’t have to agree with everyting Warren says but he is saying something that almost no other person in his class says; he is speaking truth to power and he has a megaphone and is using it. It needs to be heard, not attacked, ignored and discarded because he is not a progressive on every issue, or does not see the same level of kabuki that I, you or so many others at FDL see.

We have to use the tools we have, and this is a very big hammer!

Speaking truth to power? Lol

Yeah he sure is telling off all the little people who can’t do what he does and hide his money from the taxman. And he is of course FORCED to do that, isn’t he? Yes he has no choice at all, all that dough that he’d really like to pay tax on, well he just can’t, you know? He has his and it’s protected from taxes so let’s be sure that no one else can have what he has, eh?

Try watching what people do, not what they say.

It all comes back to having a level playing field. It amuses me that Buffett is expected to pony up or shut up- Frankly as long as his shelters are legal and the Kochs and their ilk have the ability to utilize them as well then I have no problem with him utilizing these mechanisms to impact policy. It makes me laugh that it makes groups like ALEC are angry that Buffett has used his income and influence in a way to support leveling the field between investors who profit from the labor of others and workers who create profits.

Is he perfect? No. Then again I’ve yet to meet a human being that is. I prefer the Buffets to the Kochs of the world. With Warren at least you have acknowledgement that his workers contribute to his success rather than the mentality of the Kochs, who seem to believe our society would be healthier if 90% of the bottom were fighting over crumbs and the top 10% controlled 90%.

I’m not really surprised that you have no problem with Buffett saying one thing while doing the complete opposite. I wish i could say that I was.

Obama is talking about sacrifice while he heads off to Martha’s Vineyard for his vacation. Buffett talks about rich paying more taxes while the president keeps extending tax cuts for the rich and probably will again! The rich have the tax system right where they want it. They pay less than low income earners or nothing at all as is the case with most corporations. They hide their profits in off shore registries and get tax breaks to send jobs out of the country. They have spent billions and worked for years to “fix” the tax structure and it will take a revolution to change it! Let the revolution begin!!!

Yeah he sure is telling off all the little people who can’t do what he does and hide his money from the taxman. And he is of course FORCED to do that, isn’t he? Yes he has no choice at all,…

I will point out again, why should he not use the system in place? It’s what’s made him incredibly rich. Buffett is saying he does not think his class should have so many advantages, that they should pay more, much more. His income derives mainly from most of his income being taxed at capital gains rates. He also pointed out his taxes are rather simple, he does not use tax shelters.

BUFFETT: I think that the public is educated on what goes on. I think the representatives will follow through to some extent. I think some members of Congress don’t even understand that probably. I invite them to take their own tax return and make the same calculation I did. And incidentally, I don’t have a tax shelter. I don’t have — I’ve never had a tax shelter. I don’t do any of that kind of stuff. The Congress has been my tax advisor. I mean, they’re taking care of me.

I guess you won’t be satisfied until Buffett gives away every cent and goes to spin some cloth for clothes. But then, he would not have the same impact, most likely. Then what will you gripe be? He didn’t set himself on fire in the public square?

People like DavidH will always have a gripe. They have a very limited scope and filter in which to see the world and if people can’t fit into that scope or filter then they must be “horrible people.”

Frankly it must be tedious to be so sanctimonious.