We’re seeing more evidence today of the “Invisible Town Hall Revolution,” the pushback by ordinary Americans for progressive values like tax fairness, good jobs now and the social safety net. Freshman Rep. Randy Hultgren was cornered at one of his town halls by constituents who demanded taxes on the wealthy. This is great stuff:
“We have clear information that . . . tax cuts, especially to the super rich, has not increased any more jobs,” one man told him. “I want to know under what conditions you would be willing to consider increasing taxes, especially on those who can afford it? ”
“I just have one question for you tonight,” said another. “Did you sign Grover Norquist’s pledge to never raise taxes?” — referring to the promise that has been signed by most congressional Republicans, including Hultgren.
“Don’t you have the confidence in your own ability in Congress to make up your own mind? You need Grover Norquist to tell you?” the man continued.
In an escalation, unemployed Americans occupied Paul Ryan’s district office demanding an audience.
Incidentally, this is working on Republicans. Presidential candidate Rick Perry has had to moderate his tone on Social Security. Nebraska Congressman Jeff Fortenberry appeared to agree with fellow Nebraskan Warren Buffett on the need for progressive taxation, saying that the tax code “skews in favor of the ultra-wealthy, ultra-wealthy corporations and the overseas aristocracy.” And Catfood Commission II member Fred Upton is playing defense on Medicare:
A Republican member of the powerful, deficit-slashing supercommittee vowed this week that the panel won’t touch benefits under Social Security and Medicare.
Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said it’s “critical” that current enrollees in those entitlement programs “not see benefit reductions.”
“It’s awfully hard to tell someone … who might be 82, that they’ve gotta go back to work, because their benefits are gonna be chopped,” Upton said Tuesday during a town-hall gathering in Kalamazoo, Mich. “That’s not gonna happen. We’re not gonna allow that to happen.”
If you hold current beneficiaries harmless, you get no savings scored in the 10-year budget window. You cannot do anything to those programs that will read as a cut.
A lot of liberals have moved in the direction that public opinion cannot move the crazies on the right. That can be true, but judging from the reaction to a town hall revolution that isn’t even being reported in the national media, it’s not entirely true. And if people were better informed about the parlous state of the American economy, about inequality, about taxes, they would be even angrier, and you would see even more action.
In order to give that lesson broadly, you need someone at the lectern educating on progressive values, not people who constantly push for backroom deals to cut the safety net.




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The problem with the attacks on SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are not what will be done to those already drawing benefits, its the long term removing people from the possibility of receiving the benefits. In a fairly administered approach the taxes could be upped and the costs controlled, but we have gutless leaders who are owned by the big corpses, and, therefore, unable to govern for the good of ALL the people of the country. The only problem that these programs present is that SS is not controlled by the elites and Medicare and Medicaid are not adequately controlled at all.
Looks as if we might have more “Firebaggers” than we thought. Thanks for the good info. Makes my day.
That is awesome.
Honestly, I think we need to go old school and print out educational flyers about inequality with simple charts showing how much the top 2% has compared to the rest, and how much they pay in taxes. Old school conservatives would probably be on our side. It could be a basic Common Sense Campaign to strengthen social security.
As far as taxes goes, it seems that we all have to share the pain. The bottom 98% have the pain of being taxed, and the top 2% have to bear the pain of having tax cuts.
If tax cuts were really job creators, we should have more jobs than people. The jobs, however, were created for nations where our jobs were shipped tol
Good article. Thanks David.
We must continue the pressure and escalate it. MSM will also be forced to take it up eventually.
An increasing audience in my area are the local news outlets blogs. There is some good posting. I try to hit as many as I can every day.
Meanwhile.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44213666/ns/business-us_business/
Blink
“If tax cuts were really job creators, we should have more jobs than people. The jobs, however, were created for nations where our jobs were shipped tol”
___
That, it seems, could not be more obvious. How so many people seem to not get it is, like…
But, then…
Except for the bottom 51% who actually pay no federal taxes, that is.
Here is something I just posted on the NE Georgia Political News blog
Yes but as Warren Buffet shows in his presentation of the real data they pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the wealthy pay.
You keep spreading that lie.
For those who don’t have it here is the link to the NYT op ed by Buffett
Not a lie, Kel. What are you spreading?
So?
So I called you out with the real figures as to who suffers the most pain from taxes.
Hmm. Funny how I’m soooo completely under the poverty line and I *still* pay taxes.
Nice reich wing talking point there. Too bad it is not true. The bototm 51% that you are saying don’t pay taxes DO pay:
Payroll taxes
Excise Taxes
Gas Taxes
and many other taxes and “fees” that are embedded in products we purchase and use each day. All of these taxes and fees are regressive as they hit hardest on those at the bottom least able to afford.
Progressive taxation of income is premised on those at the top being most able to pay, doing so. They already are receiving the bulk of the benefits so it might help if they give a little back.
Do you have a link for that?
Yeah, that is funny. You made my day.
From each according to his ability? That tripe, huh?
Glad to hear it. Truth is teh funny.
That’s a myth.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/half-americans-taxes
This is great information, David, thank you.
I think athena1′s educational campaign flyers are a great idea, and TalkingStick reminded me of the local newspaper blogs.
It was interesting reading the comments on Paul Krugman’s post about the Socialist Hellhole of Stockholm. 99% of the 300+ comments were in favor of higher taxes and better social services. I think we could be at a turning point if we could better illustrate what the Scandinavian-type systems actually provide.
No, just “tax the rich.”
Are you rich?
Nope from those who get the most.
Yes, that “tripe.”
Amazing how we had such a globally dominant economy in the ’50s when the highest marginal tax rate was 92% yet now when we have such a “burdensome” tax rate of nearly 1/3 of that, the economy is in the crapper.
All those tax cuts for the “jobs creators” these last ten years have done fuckall for the US economy.
But please, do not ever let facts get in your way of the reich wing talking points. Since we know you can’t handle the truth.
Well then the very price of everything we buy is regressive, isn’t it? I mean, let’s just make food cheaper for the deadbeats. Oh wait, we did. We have food stamps , sorry, SNAP.
Those who EARN the most.
Fixed it for ya.
Not only do I pay taxes, but I don’t qualify for any kind of government assistance. Child care or preschool? Ha! 900 families ahead of us. Unemployment? Ha! Overseas on contract work. Doesn’t count as employment. I guess every penny I’ve paid goes for tax breaks for speculators.
Stop trying to throw the thread off topic. You’re a nuisance.
In your dreams. Actually most inherit it or privileged access to it.
Almost every tax paid in the U.S., with the small exception of the USG income tax, is regressive. Payroll taxes are a particularly egregious example. But also sales taxes, property taxes, user fees. (NYPort Authority wants to raise bridge & tunnel tolls to $12. Calculate what that does means to an ordinary office workers after-tax income for a month of commuting.) And of course, the great boon to the rich: lower capital gains tax rates and lower effective corp tax rates, which allow the CEOs to pay themselves bigger & bigger bucks, rather than using the windfall for hiring or capital spending.
I really like these charts:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
The economy is in the crapper because of spending, not tax policy. Tax revenues as a share pf GDP are amazingly stable, even in those glory years of 90% taxes. Why? Because the more you tax the producers, the more they find ways of changing their behavior. See the link and let me know if I can help you with the big words.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304259304576375951025762400.html
You want to share the pain? Tell those 99ers to get a freaking job. Get the illegal immigrants out of our country. And start living within our means.
Nope. Those who GET. They get lower overall tax rates. They get “professional courtesies”. They get preferential treatment in every frickkin way imaginable.
You know Twain Coburn revealed what those talking points are about in his comments in Pryor, OK a few days ago.
Joan Walsh has some great comments here and links to the original.
You should not have had kids if you could not afford them. And if you were overseas on contract work, neither you or your employer paid into the unemployment fund to begin with. You’re not asking for something you didn’t earn, are you?
I guess that makes you part of the unlucky sperm club, huh?
Thank you, thank you for that link!
I wouldn’t use that Murdoch rag to line my birdcage.
Thanks. Coburn really is crazy. That’s not news however.
Racist dog whistle alert!
Then you agree it is as much luck as ability.
Dude, I still had to pay taxes on my earnings overseas. It just wasn’t taken out of my paycheck automatically. Uncle Sam still got more than 1/4 of what I earned. In one stinkin’ lump.
Unless one can predict the future with 100% accuracy, no one should have children in your world. That’s bullshit.
Yes. We 99% unlucky sperm clubbers are going to tax the snot out of the 1% luck sperm clubbers.
It is, indeed.
However, don’t articulate the content as “progressive” and you’ll be able to gain traction with the teabagger elements, too. They’re pissed off about plenty of the same stuff that progressives are pissed off about, though they’re terrified of the term “progressive.” (Thanks Glenn Beck, you idiot, crazy fucktard.) Package it differently, and before you know it, you’ve picked up some numbers. Remember: The politicians want this polarization. It serves them quite nicely. When people start getting on the same page, however, it scares the shit out of them…which is precisely where we need for them to be.
I’m still suspicious of the Invisible Town Hall. Are people challenging Democrats, too? Getting shafted by a corporatist Democrat is any more amusing that having the same operation performed by a Republican.
Would like to know more about the people at the town halls who are pushing back. Read somewhere that Paul Ryan got a good going over at his.
Only the obscenely rich should reproduce!
Ya know…eventually somebody in the rich families will be poor if only the rich spawn. In your system, someone must always be skid row broke. Ah, well. I guess they deserve what’s coming to ‘em. Spruned by God or whatever.
The Audacity of Dopes.
Or maybe this is comedy? Not really all that funny, really, but if you keep working the act, they might eventually let you sit in during open mic night at the Barstow bowling alley. (The late, late set, obviously.)
Hearing that Paul Ryan is getting verbally slapped around by his constituents is a beautiful thing.
Like GE?
Tom Graves, R-GA apparently has gotten some confrontation. His latest town hall he passed out a questionnaire with lots of push poll questions which then is what he talked about. Left little chance for confrontation.
It is indeed. I imagine that this is just the beginning. Hope so.
That’s why I was saying it needs to just be a basic “Common Sense Campaign.”
:)
Happy- What is it that you do for a living that makes the idea of a tax hike on the top 2 percent such a threat to you?
I asked him if he was rich, but he ignored me.
With the gene pool talk, the troll is IMO really throwing out racist dog whistling. It still is so much about race. See my reference to Coburn @36. He completely loses the claim of income earned in the process.
Um, I make a whopping 14 thou, and I pay federal taxes.
We recently had a question about my wife’s private retirement funds invested through our state, and how they should be handled, and any penalties that may accrue under certain circumstances. Apparently, the state has contracted information services to a private firm, which has subcontracted to vendors in India or some such. The upshot is, we got the wrong information, and had to call Social Security to find out the straight dope.
So, a good job was shipped out to save the state money, and a job in our state was lost. United Statesiums must be the dumbest people on earth.
Seriously Happy, I didn’t go back and look to see how this started, dunno if it started out antagonistic or not. If we could start over in a congenial manner is there a particular issue you would like to discuss, keeping it friendly, just trying to find out where we disagree and what evidence we might resort to to work it out?
Econ and all firebaggers,
I have watched Happy…with his nonsense try to hijack numerous threads and I would ask that we just ignore him/her as a paid troll. We must really be getting to the right wing element of the GOP/Teabaggers.
These are too good threads with a lot of information on them and then this critter comes along and tries to be obstinate. I for one will never reply to his/her drivel. JMHO.
Don’t even get me started in how much money I pay to the City and County just to open the doors of my business. God forbid I put a fricking temporary banner up to get customers through the door! Or try to put a sandwich board sign on the sidewalk. But ask for an SBA loan to get through the crappy economy? Forget it! They’re only loaning to rich folks. Now I know the difference between local and federal, but my point is that I pay a lot of money to government and I get next to nothing in return. Have my delivery van broken into? Police won’t even come out.
People also pay property taxes, in those states that have them, whether they own or rent. When you own you get the bill in the mail. When you rent, the tax is reflected in your rental payment.
I love that a Repub citizen told his rep he was a Norquist Stepford wife. That is priceless. I never thought I’d see the day.
Norquist backlash? BRING IT ON.
Yeah, I gotta stop here. happy got my back up.
Me too. :-)
Yeah, I am trying to figure why somebody comes here (or anywhere) to embrace and propogate feudalism unless they are part of the fiefdom or live off their crumbs
I just want to know if he sees himself as part of the top 1%.
Why do people feed the trawls?
It’s all talking points, so a conversation is out of the question.
And they get paid for each response.
They might be delusional and think they’ll eventually win the job lottery and break into the 1%er club?
I don’t think these people get paid. People like this are not helpful for the oligarchs. They foster in-group solidarity.
Really, trolls like this are great for online community building.
So, thank you, Happy. You remind the rest of us that we really are on the same side.
Maybe, maybe not.
But there are definitely PAID trawls. Stories have been done about it.
They also can run in groups, like over at HP.
Is this one paid? Can’t say for certain. But I believe he is based on pure conjecture.
“You want to share the pain? Tell those 99ers to get a freaking job. Get the illegal immigrants out of our country. And start living within our means.”
Does it get any classier than this?
Oh, just another case of the ‘efficiency’ of shipping jobs out of the country, especially one so critical to people. Certainly the State had only your welfare in mind. The State probably wishes that it could make the destination top-secret so you couldn’t find the place.
So true.
How he sees himself is one thing. My guess is he’s got a couple of shares in stocks and thinks he’s Donald Trump.
The fourth word in David’s post is “evidence”. I think suspected trolls should be reminded that this blog among others tries to stay close the available evidence and that the kinds of assertions that have little or no hope of being checked for accuracy will be objected to and then ignored if pushed further. If you have no evidence shut the… IYHNESTFU Ad hominems are worse than useless coming from either side.
as for me, they are damned good at hitting my hot buttons but also it does help to see the other side’s talking ;points and also I use it to hone my own thinking and writing.
Multiple bankruptcies, you mean? heh
I’m not sure they are great for “community building”. I have almost stopped reading comments because the community allows trolls to come along and hi-jack the meaningful threads. I miss reading the comments, but nearly every time I try, I come across a thread like this. It’s just too time-consuming to try and sieve out the comments that aren’t troll-related.
I think Happy does not know congenial…totally racist when it comes to immigration.
I logged in to comment on the blog, and had wade through to 81, mostly watching people trying to reason with “Happy…..”.
QUIT TRYING! Ever hear about “never wrestle with a pig. you just get covered in mud and shit. And the pig enjoys it.”
Although I am close, it’s the whole idea of making decisions for OTHER people. The theme of knowing what is right for the other guy is rampant on this POS site. That’s why the half of the population sucking off the other half is so dangerous. As long as you prigs want everyone else to shoulder the effort to get back on track, I fear we are doomed.
Sorry, the Porsche needed detailing. It’s a sweet 991 Cab in case you were wondering.
Back now!
Workers (?) of the world unite!
It’s wonderful to see pushback happening in town halls. The saying that “all politics is local” applies. President Obama may be putting awful things on the table, but it’s the congressional representatives, dems and repubs, that are voting for them. Even if one has to pay $15 to get in (which is reprehensible), it’s worth it if there’s enough of a turnout by people who will question the representatives’ actions. We saw as far back as the Florida recount what a crowd can do. We saw this with the death panel town halls. Even if a meeting can’t be videoed, audio can easily be recorded, and it’s possible that what these people say can have consequences. We need to frame the questions, not let the pols do it with talking points. Each and every unscripted event is a precious opportunity.
This is fun to see. But until the Democratic Party is reformed and made true to its own platform and principles, it will do little good to badger Republicans except for the satisfaction of it.
except for ss, medicare, sales tax, vehicle tax, property tax, you want the whole list?
didn’t think so. not everyone comes here to learn.
Tell those 99ers to get a freaking job.
Hahaha! You could wow ‘em with that comedy routine in my town.
Wait, I got one… “Tell those damn 99ers to come buy more of my freaking merchandise!” Wooh! I’m gonna bust a gut.
It was a comedy routine right? You weren’t actually dropped on your head when you were little or something?
I have also noticed happytosharebutdamn and think he is a paid shill. Notice how he doesn’t stray far from right-wing talking points. He never really responds to any comments but rather just twists it in a way to link to a WSJ op-ed or fellate the “job creators.” That’s the tell-tale sign, because, ultimately, regardless of the sophistication of whatever “persona management software” is being employed, the comments must be written by a low-level employee being paid probably little more than minimum wage. These people aren’t going to be given much latitude. Like telemarketers, they’re likely limited to scripts and pre-defined talking points.
I don’t think ignoring shills is a good solution, though. Regardless of whether you ignore them, their comments will still remain for visitors to see. It creates the false impression of a controversy where there is a consensus. Nor do I think censoring their posts is a good idea either. The Huffington Post does this with automated comment filters and moderators, and it only ends up hurting legitimate users because trolls and shills have no problem spelling their words with numbers or posting en masse.
I think a better solution is to change the very medium in which comments are posted. FireDogLake’s in-line comments sections really lend themselves to hijacking. By changing to a nested view, users could quickly see and avoid the mess.
The best solution, in my opinion, would be to implement nested comments with a community voting system for comments a la Slashdot or Reddit. In these systems, shills and trolls can post, but their comments quickly become hidden as users downvote them into oblivion.