David:
Would you consider Krugman and Stiglitz elites? Because I doubt they’d want you to lump them in with the clownshow elites Bloomberg is talking about.

The French used to have a pretty neat contraption to fix their problem. Painlessly.

David we know we do not have a democracy. So why is FDL giving air to Obama’s poll numbers or what he says, or the repubs say. Just a waste of space IMHO.

We need to start focusing on what w can do to end their control.

…paying a price for democracy.

IMO this is the start of the next phase of power consolidation. The elites, having corrupted the process and created democracy in name only, are now pursuing the logical conclusion, an attack on the concept of democracy itself. They will argue that people aren’t smart enough to rule themselves, as aristocrats have throughout history.

The world economy is paying a price for democracy.

I’ve been saying for some time now that the elite are preparing to make a direct attack on democracy. The open effort to disenfranchise the poor in the United States is already well under way, and the only thing holding it back is the fear by the Obama administration that it might cost them the next election. If they thought they could get through without the poor, they would let the poll tax or whatever its equivalent to return in a New York minute.

The natural response of the new money elite to social protest is to shut it down. It’s surprising, though, that they are becoming so open about it. Nothing like this has happened in Europe since the 1920s, and we know how that turned out.

To the extent that this is being driven by the rentier’s fear that their bonds will be devalued, we are seeing almost a direct replay of the 1920s. In the degree that this is motivated by some kind of economic reasoning, that reasoning is like economic creationism. It is just mind-boggling. We are going to be hearing more of this as the crash in Europe progresses.

Ever since mass conscription lost its military sense, the elite have known that sooner or later they would be able to disenfranchise citizens, who are degraded to the status of ‘consumer’.

Agree with you & MayDaze. This is one of the salient points that I see as well, and, like you, I’ve been feeling for a while that what the elites want is to stomp out so-called democracy in all ways. We have rapidly shifted into Orwellian speak over the past few years, so the blatancy of this kind of comment is ever-more commonplace.

Hate to say it, but the sheep-like masses will “miss” it completely and mostly will never know what’s hit them until it’s far too late.

Hate to say it, but the sheep-like masses will “miss” it completely and mostly will never know what’s hit them until it’s far too late.

True, but it will also hit you and everyone else who is awake.

80 percent of voters oppose cuts to Social Security. Do you think that is going to stop them? Yeah, they listen to the voters.

Full circle. That’s exactly what U.S. founding fathers thought.

I am not convinced that these polls are showing people have lost faith in the institution of government. What these say is that people have lost confidence in this Congress, these parties, and this President. They disapprove of their proposals for addressing the nations problems or even in the notion that these leaders care about those problems, or if they do, that these leaders know what to do. Calling it disapproval of government per se is right wing framing, and we should not embrace it.

True ’nuff and very frustrating. Trying to “awaken” as many as I can, but it’s a tough slog. Guess we’ll at least know what’s “hitting” us. Cold comfort…

Agreed.

You really shouldn’t miss this from Reuters:

U.N. study savages U.S., European economic policy

“The pursuit of austerity measures and deficit cuts is pushing the world economy towards disaster in a misguided attempt to please global financial markets, the annual report of the United Nations economic thinktank UNCTAD said on Tuesday.”

What a coincidence.

You said “Elites, having broken the world, are trying to pin the blame on voters.”

I listened to NPR’s Neal Conan interview a NC High School Principle about the problems his school faced dealing with budget cuts and had the EXACT same thought.

I wanted to reach through the radio and throttle Neal when he said something to the effect, “Well, people voted for these kinds of cuts…”

I grumbled at the radio (as I do with almost every “news” program that’s now on the corporation for public broadcastingcorporate messaging), “Nobody votes to cut school funding you stupid MF’er, it’s something that gets forced down our throats when we’re forced to pay for the MIC running this country that you so WEAKLY monitor and so CRIMINALLY misinform us about.

Assholes.

Its a common argument Democracy does not work because the rich control everything and keep the poor divided.
The rich rule to their benefit not ours so they destroy the economy by doing the least amount of work possible for the most returns but also the most risk.
Gambling on the stock market making money actually making products people want to by is hard. Taking the long view that employers should pay their workers enough to buy their products Henry Ford contra Apple Computers actually takes brains.
Lacking a work ethic Brawn as well as Brains the rich blame everyone else for their problems us the voters.
Their next step get a Hitler figure to power they will claim one person can cut through red tape and make decisions quick.
A study of Hitler’s tank production vs Russia’s or America’s s in WW2 shows FDR’s government regulation was no barrier to mass production. In fact the Russian tanks were better than the American and German tanks and also mass produced this shows that innovation is not hampered by government.
I would argue genocide, lack of upword mobility for the deserving or downward mobility for the undeserving a declining standard of living, and constant war or war expenditures kill innovation for various reasons.
Supporting parasite industries like private health insurance that do a worse job but cost more than government health insurance also sap our economy and innovation.

Blaming the VOTERS???!!!

A bit less than three years ago, we elected, in a landslide, the most progressive-LOOKING and progressive-SOUNDING presidential candidate, in a long, long, time. He came in with a mandate for real change that was unequalled since the days of Franklin Roosevelt.

That he has totally squandered the historic opportunity that american voters gave him, is not our fault. We DID our job.

That he has gone AWOL, practically since day one of his administration, is on he, and he alone.

I think these polls show support for a third party:) The rich I assume want to spin these polls as support for a Hitler figure.

When voters elected a president who served the public interest, they voted him in 4 times (FDR). Now we flail, voting out the last useless president without hope of voting in an improvement. And that’s our fault? It seems to me that conservatives and liberals manage to unite when it counts, but decent candidates have been frozen out of the process by those very failed elites.

spot on comment – totally agree.

The world economy is paying a price for democracy.

As recoveries from the U.S. to Europe lose momentum, policy makers are running into gridlock formed by the politicking and ideological preferences of governments that voters have chosen.

If this is true, then the world economy also benifited in years past for democracy. Democracy has been around in good years and bad. If it’s democracy’s fault that bad years are bad and it’s democracy’s fault that good years are good, then is it really democracy’s fault, or is it just “Sh!t happens”.

“paying a price for democracy…”

Yes, Democracy is so messy, Fascism would be SO much neater and easier….

Not so much AWOL as his campaign was a false-flag effort to seize (maintain?) power…and it worked.

Dear HotDog, I have to fessup and apologize, to you and the rest of good ‘baggers ( :o) ) :

When I voted for Obama, I also sent him $60 and thanked him, in advance, for continuing so many of the successful policies of his predecessor. I was sure that he would sustain the two clusterfucks and give us healthcare reform that would mandate 30 million new customers for the HMO robber barons, while providing no public option for us.

Likewise my confidence was unshakable that he would lard his administration with numbers of beltway wizards from the Clinton administration, including, but not limited to, Hillary, herself.

Most presciently, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he would, in his great kindness, perform the Miracle of Lourdes on the republican assholes who had practically ruined the country, and restore them to the status of loyal-opposition-who-are-kicking-my-preznintial-ass like it was a German Bundesliga soccer player, taking a penalty kick.

There now, aren’t you impressed with my futurist wizardry? :o)

I knew all along what I was supporting. :o)

A fucking MEN to that.

It will happen eventually because humanz is dum and can’t possibly resolve this sitch with politics or reason.

“Their next step get a Hitler figure to power they will claim one person can cut through red tape and make decisions quick”.

I would propose that the Super Congress is just such a step in that direction.

After the neoliberals/neoconservatives have completely taken over Congress, the courts and the White House:

“Once again, the Sith will rule the galaxy. And we shall have peace.”

Well it certainly isn’t our fault that the banksters plant (Obama) turned out to be a total fraud, is it?

We elected Obama to go Left he lied to us and instead did what the rich wanted just like Bush the rich now want to claim that Obama was a Lefty, pushed Lefty policies and by implication the rich have better ideas but they need to get rid of democracy to implement them and save us stupid voters.
First of all The rich’s ideas are the exact same thing Bush/Obama have been doing for years and every year things get worse 10 years is long enough to judge if a government policy is a failure.
Second in the real world a Dictator does not mean more efficient government nor does a Business working with government policy lead to innovation. Again Russian and American tank production in WW2 shows what happens in the real world.
Three the mentality of the rich is eat grow and forget the consequences. We ask for regulation to protect the interests of other concerned groups like workers, consumers, people effected by pollution etc.
Theirs is a boom bust pattern that germs have. Ours is a pattern that Mankind has had since we shared common fields to harvest and worked together to build barns and dig wells.
We realize we are all in this together have X amount of resources and we can all get richer if we work together.
The Right would rather have a bigger share of a smaller pie that is getting smaller as the boom turns to bust.

Thanks:)

It’s like the tale of the dozen cookies. Three people, one rich, one worker and one union rep are at the table. The rich guy takes 11 cookies and tells the worker that the union guy wants part of his cookie.

This is up there with the selfish geezers wanting things they don’t pay for, and unemployment insurance causes unemployment, irresponsible home buyers causing the mortgage collapses.

Agree they will run things and Obama will as the puppet keep getting the blame for failure. Then Obama will leave or be forced out of office and Rep Ryan of Wisconsin I would guess would be the one to step in.
The GOP needs someone Male who can rally a crowd like Sarah Palin or Michelle Backman with hate. They need someone younger than Glen Beck but looks fit and trim like Rep Ryan (yes Ryan looks like eddie Munster but he is the best the GOP gots).
Any other candidates for Führer?

FDL needs a joke depository where we can nominate Lefty jokes, snarks and puns.

And even when the worker and union guy agree to split the 12th cookie, the rich guy says, through a mouthful of crumbs, “you know, the worker guy believes in the right to choose.” As the union guy attacks the worker, the rich guy steals the last cookie.

Posted a comment about Cahnstance’s eating peculiarities this morning. Mystery solved.

Did you make that up just now off the top of your head?

Snarky confession not accepted, you’re only guilty of jaded cynicism, which, with this political system is almost impossible to avoid.

I need to think about who it might be, but I agree with your premise.

I know I have said this before, but Ryan and Boner both have those sneaky eyes of a dog that will bite you as soon as you turn your back.

They both give me a visceral chill.

Off the top of my pointy little head :)

More stories with cookies please. :)

They are visual enough even nutters can comprehend.

I’m impressed it fit so well I thought SD forgot the last half of the joke…but that didn’t fit with what I know of SD that left you being real real good at improv comedy.

In my world view the rich guy gets 2 cookies, the worker 8 and the union guy 2. The worker is pro-choice and believes in a leftist government. Nobody fucks with the workers.

I saw that. Good news.

Get Cooky Monster with the voice to do the joke and put it on U-tube Union history for kids:)

*g*

LOL at the drawing.

But yes, in a more perfect world.

We would have to invent U-tube history for kids and get more content than cookie jokes but maybe its time the Left start acting to spread the message as well as generate, report and debate content.

Oh lord this is making me hungry.

I’ve still got dates left over from the weekend.

Back to work.

Namaste

bye *g*

Small, local venues with a sort of speakers’ bureau of progressives who know how to cut through the bullshit that comes from corporatemediawhores.

But I guess that is what the ‘meetup’ things are supposed to do.

Democracy can’t work because the working classes are lazy and shiftless and will vote themselves a gift of other peoples money.

This is the meme being repeated. How many times have you heard “half the people don’t even pay taxes”? This refers to the progressive income tax only of course. You are not told that the people not paying income taxes are paying the lions share of regressive payroll, excise, sales and property taxes.

With the London riots, precursors to future rioting in our own cities, we hear the clunk of the other shoe dropping. This meme has the working class being not only greedy and lazy but lawless as well. Sterner measures will obviously be needed to repress this innate criminality.

This is just talk to justify the ongoing subjugation and impoverishment of the working classes. The Banking Cartel has bought up the Western “Democracies” and is using their governments to institutionalize universal debt slavery. The banksters intend to own the earth in fee simple and rule over it with a single global bureaucracy or “prison planet” if you will.

“This is not democracy in any respect.”

And the Supreme Court keeps the takeover in play while stuffing their pockets with the elites largesse.

“Democracy” in action – at least according to the powers that be.

But, but…jaded cynicism is now the coin of the realm. We went off the Dollar-standard when Obama raised his hand. :o)

(sarcasm on)

Yeah, having a king make all the decisions would just be so much easier… Democracy is such a PIA.

(sarcasm off)

One member of the elite wannabe crowd pled guilty today:

Ex-Citigroup Executive Foster Pleads Guilty to Bank Fraud

He only embezzled $22.9million–and he only pled to one count, too. If you’re gonna do crime, be sure to wear a white collar, and cuff-links.

Surprising that no one on the thread has mentioned corruption. Virtually all our politicians retire rich and that has nothing to do with smart investment decisions – legitimate ones, that is. I’m not sure how much of it is Mexican kingpin style “the bullet or the silver,” but most of it appears to be pure corruption.

The only way for a democracy to function, it increasingly appears to me, is to have a citizen’s committee empowered to yank any politician in front of a court of the people. Evidence of corruption – so defined by the committee and never by the legislature – should be followed by an immediate introduction to the French doctor’s populist invention.

See my #4.

Of course, eventually the committee would unjustly target an honest politician and have to be checked. There would be no danger of that in the short term, however. In order to persecute an honest politician, they’d have to find one first. The law is written to guarantee that only the corrupt need apply; IOW, if you ain’t corrupt, you have no chance to get elected. Too expensive.

So you’re gonna ruin a good rant with an inconvenient fact? Very inconsiderate. ;)

I missed it.

LOL It’s still a good rant!

Krugman and Sitlitz are among the elites of their field, but they are definitely not considere Very Serious People and are not permitted to be part of or advise the Government Elites.

They are not the “right” sort of people.

Best comment I’ve read yet. Gotta write that down…

As far as this article, it just makes me so sad. Things are going to have to get much, much worse before they get any better.

Waaay late to this thread, and I’m sure this has already been noted upthread. But…voters voted for change in 2008. Elites did not deliver the changes that were promised and voters voted for change again in 2010. Still no change. I wonder how voters will vote in 2012?/s

Blaming our situation on the form of govt is just a smokescreen. The data rationalizes quite neatly along the lines of, “Once gaining entry to the elite, all political leaders then identify with the elite, and try to promote the interests of the elite, which interests are always in opposition to the interests of the regular people. Politics is a zero sum game, which functions to divide up the power and benefits in any society. What the data shows is that the personal allegiance of in-group tribalism always trumps the principles of good, democratic governing. That is why a fail-safe mechanism to prevent govt overreaching against the citizenry is always necessary.

Good reply, Scarecrow.

Basic response to the teapottiers, and really, everyone else:

“It’s not government that’s the problem: it’s BAAAD government…”

Amen to that. Bad gvernors will persist until we find some effective way to punish them for being bad governors. I personally favor a federal crime of “betraying the public trust, ” a felony punishable by long imprisonment.

Isnt it all so hideously predictable? What about the hundreds of trillions of dollars and millions of lives spent the past 100 years, allegedly in the service of this capitalist bourgeouise democracy? I guess it was all a terrible mistake, and the voters fault anyway.The peoples only fault is in not sequestering the whole rentier class on barge on the north atlantic.

Blaming the voters is not surprising if one holds that the market is the supreme transcendent authority in all matters. The citizen’s notions of social justice don’t matter to the bosses.