Everyone’s talking about this exchange from last night’s CNN/Tea Party Express debate (I assume the CNN/MoveOn debate is next week), where the crowd cheers the prospect of allowing an uninsured man to die. And I’ll get to that in a moment. But perhaps just as rotten was when the crowd booed Ron Paul, who’s supposed to be a kind of Tea Party godfather, for daring to suggest that not every Muslim is responsible for 9-11. Beyond the crassness of this incident, it should definitively end the speculation that the Tea Party is anything other than an outgrowth of the Republican Party. Their alleged hero was booed for one of the few areas where he strays from Republican orthodoxy. And the boos were specifically because of a stand against bigotry. Remember that Tea Party types are extremely sensitive to charges of racism. Yeah, I can’t imagine where anyone gets that idea.
Ben Adler has a good rundown of the Tea Party economics on display at the debate, which was dominated by fealty to ideological belief over, well, numbers:
Every Republican wants to cut taxes and yet somehow prices to reduce the deficit. So they were asked, as they should be, what exactly they would cut. You might think it would be bad if one of them offered, say, food stamps, for the chopping block, but at least that would contain a proposal for progressives to engage. Instead they were even more mendacious by refusing to give an honest answer. Newt Gingrich ludicrously stated that there is enough waste, fraud and abuse to balance the budget without actually cutting any of the funding that finds its way to legitimate beneficiaries. Rick Santorum and Rick Perry both refused to say they would undo the massive Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted under President Bush, which Santorum voted for. In other words, they are all lying. Either they will increase the deficit or they will propose devastating spending cuts they were afraid to campaign on, or both.
“This country needs to wean itself from its heroin-like addiction to foreign oil,” said Jon Huntsman, when asked how he would lead economic growth as president. Huntsman opposes the sort of measures that would actually wean our addiction to oil by taxing its consumption. Increasing domestic production, which the Republicans all favor, does not actually eliminate our dependence on oil, “foreign” or otherwise. And that’s only partially because we don’t actually have as much oil on US territory as we consume. It’s because oil is a fungible commodity, and Exxon Mobil isn’t going to give away the oil it drills in Alaska to Americans for free. It’s a global market, and increased demand in China and India or an interruption in supply from Venezuela or Saudia Arabia will increase the global price that we pay for oil, wherever it happens to have been drilled.
This definitely extended to health care, where practically every candidate was asked what they would do about 45 million uninsured Americans, and they collectively answered “tort reform,” “health savings accounts” and “end Obamacare.” Paul called for a healthy uninsured man who suffered a medical catastrophe to “assume responsibility” for their lack of insurance, when the implication of the answer is that he should die for making that mistake of failing to get coverage. This is what the crowd cheered on. Paul then argued that churches would come riding to the rescue of the uninsured.
Robert Hendin dares to add some facts to the discussion:
The reason why people who don’t have health insurance can go to the hospital for emergency care and not be turned away, and therefore, have the cost of their care covered by the system, is simply because the federal government requires it.
But this is not a new thing arising from Mr. Obama’s health care law – or even Romney’s. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act requires nearly every hospital to cover emergency care for those Americans who can’t afford it and says not to turn away the sick simply because they can’t pay for the care.
That is the premise of the question tonight: A healthy young American who doesn’t have health insurance suddenly needs emergency care. Federal law requires that that care is paid for. That law was passed in 1986, which means it was signed into law by not by Mr. Obama or even Bill Clinton, but by Ronald Reagan.
While many in the Tea Party favor more limited government and more personal responsibility, as was evidenced from the crowd’s reaction to Paul’s answer, it was in fact the president most beloved by the movement who signed the law that firmly put government behind this part of the health care cost equation.
Not to mention that the personal responsibility position, which would also cost the federal government less, is to mandate everyone inside the risk pool. After all, single payer health insurance is a mandate.
The debate showed that the Republican health care plan really is don’t get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.




67 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
…because you’ll need all that money for the funeral.
Latest news on the poverty statistics front might be cause for further cheering by those tea-baggers:
U.S. poverty rate reaches 15.1 percent
“About 46.2 million Americans lived in poverty last year, marking an increase of 2.6 million over 2009 and the fourth consecutive annual increase in the poverty rate.
“The total number of people living in poverty — defined in 2010 as at or below an income of $22,314 for a family of four — is now at the highest level in the 52 years the statistic has been collected.
. . .
“As poverty has spiked, median household income declined by 2.3 percent to $49,445 between 2009 and 2010. The typical household now earns less than it did in 1997, when inflation is factored in, a troubling sign of economic stagnation.”
Most conservatives feel this way in their fevered Galtian fantasies about being self-sufficient-y ‘n stuff. And, make no mistake, most are selfish & mean-spirited to the core, so if something bad happens to someone other than them: too bad, get used it, die fast. They’ve been trained like Pavlov’s dogs to not give a sh*t about anyone else… until something happens to them.
True story: Republican dittohead acquaintance of mine lost his job (actually could’ve kept it but didn’t want to move), has been unemployed for a couple of years (trying desparately to sell insurance but good luck with that). Refuses to lose the trappings of his ersatz-rich Republican lifestyle: still belongs to the most expensive country club in town, just purchased a $60K SUV (go figure!), sending kid to expensive college out of town, etc. Just found out he needs open-heart surgery. Oooops: sh*tty insurance & no back-up plan for how to pay for all of this stuff.
I wish him well health-wise, but OTOH, I think it takes citizens, like this person, getting effectively “painted into the corner,” to start taking a hard look at what’s wrong with many/most/all of their choices.
Dunno if this person will ever actually admit how wrong he’s been; would be nice. Sadly will probably find some way to blame it on poor people and how the mega-rich have been “taxed too much.”
Time will tell… but I betcha this acquaintance wouldn’t be so happy to hear the clapping & cheering that he should just die bc he doesn’t have adequate heath insurance… I hope he was watching this debate. He needed to be watching it and taking notes.
Half of this country is totally fucked. This is the Civil War with out the Ft. Sumpter. Go to Zero Hedge and read the 30/40 something randians spew about the ‘ponziness’ of Social Security.
Frankly I have been surprized by the rapacious stupidity of the American public.
I had flatly written off 30% of the voting public as racist during the last election. I am convinced it is a lowball.
Combine that, with low information mouthbreathing, and a president who totally mishandled the VOTER mandate, in favor of the corporate/bankster 1%, and an unbelievably pathetic lack of focus on employment, and you have a strong possibility of loosing the Presidency to a republican.
Last night, florida showed why they elected rick scott. The republicans will cheer for capitol punishment or letting an uninsured 30 year old die.
Of course, wolf blitzer was too cowardly to extrapolate on that concept with a challenge to any of the douches up there about what if that 30 year old was a little closer to them than a debate question.
Clearly the MSM is aligned with romney, but the idiots in the new confederacy still think perry is the savior.
Yeah, yeah… I hear this ALL the time from citizens of all pol. persausions about how there’s “all this fraud.” Undoubtedly there is fraud and waste, but not to the extent that LIARS like Gingrich wish to make out. Even IF we could somehow *stop* all fraud, it wouldn’t do a d*mn thing for the massive budgetary hole this country is in.
Stop the War, Inc, cut the insane MIC spending, not to mention insane spending on the Secret Agencies… but will we hear that? Nope, esp not from the likes of a shill like Gingrich.
whaddaya mean? If Obama wins, we get 4 more years of a Republican. If Perry or Romney win, then we get 4 more years of Republican. I fail to see the difference.
Maybe Newticles was talking about waste and fraud in the military/security budgets, the one place they might add up to substantial megabucks…
…nah.
Mods: Header & comments links for this post on main page point to dDay’s gov shutdown post.
According to these ass hat clowns, sick babies should be left to die because they can’t afford to be born unhealthy in america.
The new american nazis is exactly what they are, impolitely speaking.
Thanks. should be okay now.
Sure. What’s the surprise? These are the same fascists who will happily & blissfully permit the mother to die, rather than have a medically needed abortion, in order to carry the fetus to term. But once that fetus becomes an infant & uses its lungs to breath, the infant’s On. Its. Own.
If the infant is sick & has no health insurance? Then that infant had better QUICK get a job with benefits… or Die Fast!
Why is anyone surprised about how Tea Partiers feel about this? It’s been blindingly evident for years now.
The pentagon accountants that were researching that corruption happened to be working in the Pentagon office that a “jet’ flew into. I would guess it would be hard for anyone to want that position or if they had to take it would find anything amiss.
onitgoes,
‘you have a strong possibility of loosing the Presidency to
republicanthe confederacy.’ok fixed it
Cheering for someone allowed to die because s/he can’t afford medical treatment is incredibly callous and inhumane. It’s an example of fascist ideology. This poor person isn’t worthy of health care because s/he must have made the wrong decisions in life to get to that point. S/he must be an alcoholic, drug addict, jobless and therefore, lazy or have some other character flaw that prevents him/her from being able to afford necessary treatment.
Kimberly Young from Ohio died from complications from viral pneumonia a couple of years ago because she delayed going to the emergency room because she was uninsured and couldn’t afford it. She was a double major at Miami (Ohio) University and was working two jobs because she couldn’t find full time work. This is the person who died they were cheering last night.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/09/25/61698/swineflu-boehner-constituent/
“The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act requires nearly every hospital to cover emergency care for those Americans who can’t afford it and says not to turn away the sick simply because they can’t pay for the care.”
By the way, they may have to treat you, but the service isn’t free. You still have to pay for the treatment, and you can’t come back for extended care without insurance (for instance, they find that gut pain is cancer, but you can’t go back for radiation therapy without coverage). This is why medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy in the U.S.
Once upon a time, were people to publicly voice the bloodthirsty and callous, even celebratory, disregard of life … which the comments you bring to our attention manifest most clearly, David, then such people would have been met with genuine outrage and questions as to the sanity, humanity, and danger presented by those who evidence such stark disdain of the lives of others and such loudly exultant hatred.
Now, it is commonplace, this public display of arrogance and small-minded lack of appreciation of life, of decency, of peace, and of reason.
Indeed, these are the voices which shall excuse and call for the brutal militarization of American society, as the MOTU have need of that military might in pursuit of their “all-American” dreams of total world conquest. The corporate class may be calling the “shots”, however, a complacent and well-rewarded political class, which includes the media, is, obviously, playing happily along.
The corporate class may dominate, but they need the might of the state, of the nation. To pay for the exploits of the .01%, not only must they be constantly “bailed out”, but the nation must be further impoverished that the military, and the militarization of police departments across the nation may continue apace.
When push comes to shove the military AND the police will side, for a very long time, with the PTB and the MOTU.
Expect such language as the “tea-party” brown-shirts mouth to soon be coming more directly from the mouth of “authority”.
Thank you, DDay, as always, for bringing us the news … behind the news.
DW
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen:
When are we goin’ ta start usin’ the word “fascism” to describe “the conservative movement” and the Republican Party…and when are we gunna brand the alternative politics “anti-fascist partisan democracy”? I have been postin here since the first year and I have used the term “fascist” to brand those who present themselves as “Republican”, Libertarian”, “Tea Party” or free market capitalist. I have been involved in the recall efforts here in Wisconsin since February and I am currently workin locally to organize a populist recapture of our local school board and city council. And I have worked and continue to work both inside and beyond the Democratic Party. Right now the Democratic Party lable and those who wear it are simply an element of a larger coalition that must be cultivated and grown into a populist and partisan anti-fascist movement that can not be divided against itself or circumscribed by a “rule of law” that eliminates one-person-one vote and legalizes theft and genocide.
We all know what needs to be done and who hasta do it and sittin’ around the blog-campfire maonin’ and groanin’ about the terrible unfairness of it all and throwin rocks at each other when we’re called out to do somethin about it just won’t cut it.
I have said this before and I will continue to say this over and over again until they take me away to the re-education camps: the cure for a sick democracy is more democracy.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IF YOU AREN’T DOIN’ SOMETHIN’ WHAT GOOD ARE YOU??!!
stewarjt: “Cheering for someone allowed to die because s/he can’t afford medical treatment is incredibly callous and inhumane.”
Actually it is a simple emotion: Hate. The teaparty types hate those who ain’t teaparty types. During the Civil War, groups of men on each side of the issue stood opposite each other firing guns almost pointblank (read about some of the “minor” battles in the midwest states during mid-war). Why did they do this? Hate. Neither side could tolerate the other. Our national intolerance, exhibited through hate, is getting worse…and the teapartiers will really pig out on hate if the Repubs win in 2012. The TPs hate so much that they will shoot themselves in the foot to get back at those they hate; for this reason, if they win, don’t count on the survival of nationwide government programs, such as SS, Medicare, EPA, FAA, NOAA, USPS, or the rest of our alphabeted services.
American Conservatism = Christian Fascism and Rick Perry is the Poster boy.
Excellent comments today. EXCELLENT. Most of the TEA Party is beneath contempt. I suppose, when they “meet their maker” the shit will hit the fan.
You got THAT right. I hope these debates will make that painfully obvious to everybody. Perry’s list of undesirable qualities is never-ending.
Here is my question — where was Blitzer’s outrage at the audiences’ response? Where was his further follow up to the candidates about the audience’s obscene reaction? Same with Williams with the cheering on of the deaths of convicted criminals.
These multi-millionaires want for nothing so they have no clue about an average American life, and they are just as debased as the audience — as a common sense reaction to such a gross display of depravity would be to call it out and then grill the candidates about what just happened.
Instead they glossed over it like it was a game. Blitzer and Williams have absolutely no clue what it is like living in the trenches of American economic disparity – lacking the resources to proper health care, nutritious food, a healthy way of life, etc. This is nothing but ratings and entertainment for them.
So who is worse — the audience, or these Courtiers of the media who prostrate themselves to power and money?
Why are tea-partiers so fat?
Right on!!!
Neither. Both the vapid, highly paid media whores & the “average” TeaPublicans are equally “bad” in terms of their mendacity and disgusting behavior, beliefs, etc.
He didn’t mishandle the VOTER mandate. He did exactly what his corporate masters wanted. He doesn’t give a shit about little people like VOTERS.
I have been saying for a long time that we are going to be “burning witches at the stake” in front of City Hall very soon. These Teatards are dangerous and we saw that last night. Everyone is talking about it. I have been working against these people for years…..I ran an election against one of there own back in 1986 and beat him bad. They were called the Christian Right then and now the Tea Party. We need to get rid of these people once and for all.
The question that should have been asked is whether a hard-working 30-year old guy who’s just been laid off because banksters wrecked his livelihood and can’t afford private healthcare should be allowed to die because of bad timing.
Dw your comments are always welcome and insightful.
In Iraq we murdered a million Iraq citizens who had nothing to do with 9-11. We lost 3-4 thousand of our troops in vain lust for megaprofits the Iraq war delivers . Now we relish torture and the occasional death it brings in search of ” intelligence”.
Is it any wonder we walk around like zombies ?
These people make me glad I’m not
30a fucking rube.Right on, bro.
There was a major coalition protest planned for last night. Negotiations with CNN were ongoing until yesterday afternoon about the protest taking place at the Hillsborough County Fairgrounds but the Tea Party rejected the idea the the protest was relegated to a “free speech zone” a short distance away.
The Tea Party and the libertarians managed to pack the house. I guess we can start referring to CNN as TNN now.
I call it a “tie” too. Lots of room in the “despicable human beings” slot. But it’s filling up quick.
The fundies need to spend more time reading the Bible they love to misquote so much. Admittance to the great hereafter in the sky will be based on deeds, not having expressed a belief in and acceptance of Jesus.
In a country of insane rubes, it will be illegal to be sane and intelligent.
Painted into the corner, but will he change? Tragic about his medical condition, but it’s likely, given human nature and in particular Teabagger Think, that he will not put two and two together. He will still say government and socialized medicine are the enemies, even as he demands his socialized medicine. Hard wired to see only the facts that conform to their ideology…
So Blitzer frames the question by having the hypothetical young man decide not to buy health insurance? Decide?! What a bullshit setup. The more important issue is what do we do as a society for those who can’t afford health insurance, for whom there is no choice.
And then Paul backs away from the logical conclusion of a society that does not provide a collective response for what is a collective issue–whether one like to see it as such or not–by saying that he is not for letting someone without health insurance die?
The level of bullshit here is stultifying.
Yeh. Claiming to be a Christian and LIVING as one are different things. I’d like to be a “fly on the wall” when they find THAT out. At the gates, St. Peter’s gonna be rainin’ on their parade big time. They wouldn’t have done well in “Heavenly Jeopardy” anyway.
a. they are millionaires, so what do they know about poverty?
b. they had to get out of that hall alive.
This Tea-Party “mentality” is not really anything new. One has to look at the founding myths of America such as Thanksgiving. In less than a generation of that event, christian Americans began the policy of genocide on the very people who welcomed them.
$200 or $300 hundred a month. What a f*cking joke that is. With co pays and premiums for one person these costs are a hell of a lot higher than $200 or $300. Wolfe Blizer makes me puke. What a loaded lie of a question. CNN always serving the elite and pretend pandering to the rest of us. That’s why I never watch it or any tv for that matter. It actually makes you stupider. Plus, you have to see those sick cannibals aka tea partiers being given coverage and a voice while humane decent good people and their movements are snubbed, thrown to the ground for speaking up, and blocked by goons from being seen by these phony vampire networks.
The Tea-party “mentality” was evident in the average Confederate soldiers, dieing for the plantation owners and his ideology when he himself was already dirt poor due to free labor called slavery.
Not just welcomed them, saved their asses from starving to death which is what the lower classes do for these cannibals. It takes a lot of under paid low paid workers to support their Walmart lifestyles. Makes me want to puke.
Well said.
The Tea-party “mentality” today is just an extension of these same types of persons who are fooled in to believing whatever the PTB want them to believe and are easily used and disposed of as so much toilet paper by the upper 1 percent.
Ding!Ding!
Why do we have to negotiate where we demonstrate, as long as it’s public ground? (and isn’t a fairground public?)
Security, doncha know. They’re afraid all us hippies are gonna go in and massacre the candidates. We’re just waiting to see what the new mayor of Tampa does for the convention next year. We’re expecting an all out lockdown of the area so we can’t get near it.
Back to work.
Namaste
The crazy thing about the political philosophy of Paul, Tea Baggers, and their ilk is that their notion of freedom and responsibility imagines a level of individual control over resources and means of production that probably have not existed since most of the species were hunters and gatherers. If each individual had the modern equivalent of 40 acres and a mule, and therefore control over producing a necessarily much more simplified version of what they need to live, then maybe–maybe!–this worldview might have some legitimacy.
As it exists now, insisting that individuals have responsibility for aspects of life over which they have little power is a delusional, anti-modern, Heimat fantasy that mainly works to serve the interests of a Corporatist elite. Because the anxieties of modernity–especially the decreased autonomy and power of the individual in a complex socioeconomic system–are so strong and the need to go back to some safer, more manageable Garden of Eden to assuage those fears is so appealing, the fairytale balm trumps the glaring, self-destructive results of adhering to this faux-Libertarian nonsense. The Fascists elites have located the popular emotional buttons and are pushing them to great effect.
Get rid of them once and for all? You mean burn them at the stake?
“It actually makes you stupider.”
Indeed. The first essential act in being able to think at all in this country is to shut off the TV.
My sister refused to have a TV (except for one she rented to watch Watergate)because she said it destroyed the art of conversation. I say TV destroys you, it sucks everything out of you. Sit in front of it and what happens? You stay there, mesmerized. People use TV and drugs/drink the same way, to escape the stresses of daily life.
You think that Romney or esp. Perry would appoint a Sotomayor or a Kagan to the Supreme Court? Seems like a lot of the Firepup brigade has a slow death wish.
That slow death will be assured when a 6-3 or 7-2 Supreme Court sets the stage for climate change to make a lot of people on this earth suffer and die, maybe the process will begin within your lifetime, so you can own it as you watch millions displaced by rising seas, mass species extinctions, and a huge increase in unstable weather and violent storms.
This issue dwarfs you and the pouty, petty and self-indulgent notions that are considered here as legit.
As Al Sharpton said recently, “It ain’t about Obama, it’s about yo mama (and your children and grand-children, if you have any).
We have a new “Doctor Death”. Hope Ron Paul likes the title. His supporters have hung it on him for life.
Republicans believe you should have a choice of health care providers. You can go to whatever church you prefer and pray for a miracle, or failing that there’s always the local funeral home.
And what is the Obama administration doing to mitigate climate change? They won’t even put solar panels back on the White House roof as a symbolic act!
Instead of the government we need to eliminate the money buying the congress. If the 1% is eliminated may I suggest starting with the brothers Koch. Since America has went to other countries and eliminated their problem individuals, maybe they could come here and take care of our problems.
The problems is we don’t have any nutjobs among progressives. They’re all in the Tea Party. I guess that tells us something, doesn’t it.
Well crap,wonder if they would let us borrow one?
There should be six or so available after the Republicans choose their candidate.
Where does this ass-clown get the funds to continue his “Republican lifestyle” — i.e., the SUV, country club & kid in expensive college?
Did he have a bunch o’ dough in the bank before he lost his job, and that’s been keeping him afloat?
Really, I’m curious. [Mostly curious about how long a leash these bozos have before they run out of funds and have to deal like the rest of us.]
Let Perry be the Rethug nominee. Obama will beat him like a drum. Romney,I don’t know,its within the realm of possibility that he could scrape 270 electoral votes together.
This is evidence of my-side blindness. We certainly do have enemies of the people counted among the progressives in that they want to uphold this system because it works for them. Many of them still have 401Ks or are invested in stocks and bonds that haven’t entirely been looted yet.
.
The “nutjobs” don’t understand that they are voting to end a corrupt system by burning it down out of sheer ignorance.
In that respect they may be considered loyal opposition to those on the left that believe that the late stage capitalist system, or the real owners will end the world if allowed to continue raping it and us.
.
@onitgoes acquaintance that needs heart surgery, I’ll bet he’s going to get a new religion – ours.
http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/bisbee/docs/021.html
http://davidharvey.org/2011/07/the-vote-to-end-capitalism/
Jist a lil creative licensed edit there Mr. Dayan . . . ;-)
Thanks again for all yer doing, daily . . . . incredible work.
It’s important to remember why Congress had to pass that law in 1986. During the early part of Regan’s presidency, hospitals had begun turning away people who lacked insurance. There were more than a few cases of people dying because they were being shuttled from hospital to hospital. One, in Kansas City, was a young girl whose parents lacked insurance.
And GOP voters want to return to that? That shows a very ugly side to American.
There was a young boy… this was just a few years ago. I think he was 10 or eleven. I don’t remember his exact age, but I remember him and can picture him to this day.
He basically died from a tooth ache. His family didn’t have dental insurance, and he knew that they couldn’t afford the dentist. So he didn’t tell his mother that he had a tooth ache. The tooth became infected, and the infection traveled to his brain.
He died because he was poor and had a tooth ache.
If a 30 year old healthy man decides that $200-300 a month is not worth it to him to have any health insurance, then he is the equivalent of someone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet. People who ride a motorcycle without a helmet and have an accident tend to die. People whop ride a motorcycle without a helmet and are lucky enough not to have an accident get to feel the wind blow through their hair.
But maybe this 30 year old has family or friends who think that his life is worth more to them than the cost of the treatment, and they will pay for it. But if he first decides not to purchase anytype of health insurance, and also has no friends or family who could get enough money together to do such (and remember wolf blitzer was not talking about someone who couldn’t afford it, “has a good job, makes a good living…and decides….” – so I am not going to accept any claims of “he can’t afford it”) then he is being a real a-hole to expect either a doctor and hospital to work for free for 6 months to save his life, or for society to pay his tab.
Maybe there is a doctor or a hospital who out of the goodness of their heart want to save this man’s life for free…or someone who wants to collect money for them….or maybe the guy has enough saved up to defray the costs…the guy made the decision to play the odds, and made no accomodation for an emergency….just like the motorcycle driver without a helmet!
If he is 30 and healthy and making a good wage, it might make absolute sense for him to have a policy which covers anything above $10k a year, because he could handle anything below that….that sort of policy, depending on what state your in would probably be pretty cheap, because the actuarial chances of you incurring more than $10k a year are low…..
but this is the debate question equivalent of “a hostage taker has your wife and kid, and is threatening to kill one…which one should die?”