With NY-09 likely to evaporate, will Turner have a toehold established to challenge whichever Dem takes over that turf? It wouldn’t seem lightning can strike twice there. . . in NY??

Cross posted from below.

The Democratic Party was already flailing from too much Blue Dog food but I think Obama has delivered the coup de grace. I am really coming to think the party of the people simply isn’t going to make it. I don’t know enough of the details of history but it does remind me of the Whigs who compromised themselves out of existence……. contra Chris Matthews claiming it was the abolitionists who destroyed it.

Either way the Democrats are dying from having their most basic core principles bargained away by Obama. Just what do they have to run on?

Given a choice between a door knob and an unprincipled lying corrupt piece of trash, people will choose the door knob.

When you watch the rabid Tea Party in Florida, you certainly can see what is coming down the pike. NY has as much to do with Israel support and anti Muslim hate as anything, it appears. That is also a bad omen. We have become a war like people. Never mind that we are destroying our wealth in foreign adventures, but do you feel a whole lot safer?

get ready for the 2012 democratic slaughter

obama will undoubtedly move further right (the only way he moves, evidently) and we will see prez romney w a gop senate and house

heckuva job, obie wan, destroyer of liberalism and the democratic party

Obama is like a car that can only make right turns.
He was hired to destroy the Democrats.

I begin to think it matters very little what Obama does anymore. He seems to have lost the ear of the american people. His “pivot” to jobs seems to late. When the thugs get in power, they may control the whole government and the supremes by 7 to 2 margin. You have to prepare for the worst. The safety net could go. I hope I am wrong. I had been hoping we could at least hang on to congress.

Turner ran an anti-muslim campaign and won.

Yes, and the Democrats have their principled moral ground on which to stand proud. That bad, bad Weiner is gone.

Question here. When the White House says that Obama is “pivoting” to jobs, what is he pivoting FROM? Enquiring minds want to know.

Barack Obama’s job approval number in NY-9 is 37%.

Democrat Weprin beat that by 9 points.

But, he still lost to the Republican by eight points…in the same area where voters sent Geraldine Ferraro and Chuck Schumer to Congress.

Can you imagine how pissed voters in NY-9 must have been to do this?

If the Democratic Party had a leader with a SPINE, these things would not happen! Obama is dragging his party down; since this happened in NY 9, there is little hope for districts that are less “fail-safe” for Democrats and the next Congress will probably by 80% Republican, most of whom will be stark raving mad tea-baggers. Thanks for nothing, Mr. President.

obama has been unmasked as a feckless fraud

the american people have tuned him out, notwithstanding the pathetic bleatings of obots and dem hyper-partisans

yes, we are headed for the bottom and we are accelerating

get your crash helmets ready

While this should proved the Dems more evidence that Obama can’t win and should not run sadly I doubt that will happen.

Time to hunker down for the worst – Obama’s damage to the Democratic Party will be profound.

the dems took weiner out bc obama and the blue dogs wanted him gone

you reap what you sow

O will just have to move farther to the right center.

I agree. Obama is the shrinking man. Really irrelevant in most people’s thinking now. I find it sad as well as terribly frightening when I look to the alternatives. I almost wonder if his numbers continue to fall if he might LBJ like just call it quits. Not that there is a strong Democrat now left standing who could do any better…

More evidence that the “shellacking” Democrats took in 2010 will be mild compared to the wipe-out they suffer in 2012 thanks to Obama’s mishandling of fiscal policy.

Remember November 2008? Pundits were saying George W. Bush destroyed the Republican party and made it irrelevant for a generation. Hah! Thanks to the Republican mole Obama, it has been and will continue to be the Democratic party that has been/will be irrelevant!

So it was all about race and religion, and the economy had nothing to do with it?
If people are unhappy with Obama, they’re racist bigots?

He’s pivoting from Republican laps after they busted their nuts.

David, it’s over Israel. Look at Max Blumenthal’s article in Al-Akhbar English (hardly an Obama apologist…):

http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/gadfly/meet-new-york-citys-terror-linked-political-kingmaker

Despite — or perhaps because of — the fact that Hikind has never renounced his past activities, he has become a kingmaker in New York politics capable of turning out thousands of Orthodox Jewish and Russian-Jewish voters en masse for the candidate of his choice. His support proved essential in the election victories of Republican former Senator Alfonse D’Amato, former Republican Governor George Pataki, and ex-Mayor Rudy Giuliani. And with Hikind’s help in a Democratic stronghold, Turner appears headed for victory.

Turner’s probable victory will be chalked up to Obama’s political weakness and the mediocre performance of Weprin. But the value of Turner’s endorsement by Hikind, a Jewish extremist who spent much of his career involved with terrorist groups, can not be understated

The Democratic Party is done. Should be interesting, I get the feeling “they” liked it having a Democrat in charge providing cover for all the right wing policy “they” wanted to enact. With complete conservative control of everything in government, you wonder how “they” are going to spin the complete destruction of the middle and lower classes. No one else to point the finger of blame at, although maybe it doesn’t matter anymore.

I find it sad as well as terribly frightening when I look to the alternatives.

Yes, more of the same.

When there’s no substance to either party, matters like you point out become determinant.

Yeah, it was all about Israel and religion, maybe about sex and Twitter. BULLSHIT.

Yesterday was clearly a referendum on Obama, the unprincipled lying corrupt piece of trash.

Democrats have held NY-09 since 1923.

At best, Washoe County has swing votes. Reno is pretty conservative. The implication here seems to be that it is surprising that the Republican comfortably took Washoe County. It is not.

wnyc on NY9

I don’t see much of a bounce back from the Jobs Speech.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-14/obama-approval-drops-on-skepticism-of-jobs-plan.html

OMG, Brian Lehrer is making the point the Weprin is a weak candidate. Played a clip from an interview. Weprin did not know what the poverty rate is in the district.

Welprin truly was a shitty candidate. Unfortunately, the White House has been crying “Martha Coakley was a bad candidate” since…well, since Creigh Deeds. This time, it probably did have something to do with the results of the race. But the overarching story of the downward trajectory of Obama’s poll numbers is compelling regardless of anything Welprin did. And rather than listen to what the numbers have been telling them since…well, since Creigh Deeds, Obama’s urge to blame someone else rather than right the ship probably is a more critical story in the grand scheme of things.

Your post would be easier to understand if you first established who “they” are. At first I thought you were talking about the Democrats, but from the context I am guessing you mean the Republicans and/or the wealthy interests they serve.

As for your question about spinning blame, they have already established that narrative. They are blaming labor unions, ni@@er-loving liberals (the term white conservatives use in private) and Democrats who wanted to make it easy for the poor to own homes.

Welprin face backlash from the orthodox community.

Can someone please explain to me what the Democratic party stands for besides claiming that it is not GOP? What is the reason for its existence?It has lost its soul. Why, instead of solving our economic problems, is Israel an issue in our elections? Democrats have to realize that they better start doing something for the voter besides being “not GOP” in terms of policy options. Otherwise it is going to be wipeouts in the next several election cycles. As far as I can see, they only exist to collect political contributions from the donors to “look” like an alternative, without being one. Right now there is only one political party, for all practical purposes. However, even issues such as Social Security and Medicare will not be easy to destroy even without the Democrats, as there is a large constituency within the Republican party to continue these programs. I just don’t see any purpose, as of now, for the Democratic party to exist. The outcome of this election was not an accident. And this will keep on happening. Either they re-invent themselves or die.

Most people have learned that what Obama says means nothing. They will judge him based on what he does (and his actions rarely match his words) and the results that brings.

There is no spinning of this result possible on either side.

The immediate, practical effect is no one needs to pay attention to anything Obama says any further. There is no come back from the jobs speech. This election and the polls show no help from the speech.

The big lash back at the GOP from the debt debate? Imaginary.

People no longer care WHAT Obama says. And, again, practical effect of the election is that they know they can brush him off with impunity.

No matter what anyone says that is what will be done.

The jobs bill is dead–as proposed.

martha coakley was a poor campaigner but that wouldn’t have mattered and she would have won by 15 points except that the health care fiasco was already well underway and obama gave coakley NOTHING to run on

ma citizens fired a warning shot at the white house by electing pinup brown

i knew we were headed for catastrophe when obama moved even further right after brown won

the rest has been watching a slow-motion head-on train crash from 5 miles out

yup

obama was a lame duck about 6 days into his presidency

now he’s just rancid

I am really coming to think the party of the people simply isn’t going to make it.

The Democratic party ceased being the “party of the people” in the 1990′s because the unions had become too weak a political force.

Politics is always about serving special interests. It is no coincidence that when the labor unions were their strongest, the Democrats controlled Congress for decades after WWII. It is no coincidence that as union power declined, the Republicans and conservative Democrats became dominant. The middle and lower classes are paying the price.

I think the presidency is now up to the thugs to lose. I keep holding out a small glimmer of hope to keep congress but I doubt it. The american people are angry, and they should be. Between Obama and Bush we are on track to spend 3.3 to 4.0 trillion in those 9/11 wars and the aftermath. In the process, we have squandered out wealth. Feel safer? (see Time this sunday or Brown U study for war cost numbers.)

Jane: Yes, that’s the pattern that people seem to ignore: Obama’s urge to blame someone else rather than right the ship probably is a more critical story in the grand scheme of things.

But surely the Democrats will wake up by 2012. Nope, not going to happen.

I’m not sure how he can go about righting this ship any longer. I think the people are tuning him out. Feckless is a word comes to mind.

And in other news, Elizabeth Warren announced she’s running for the Senate in Massachusetts against Scott Brown. I did not realize that she is 62 years old. Just sent her an e-mail, telling her she needs to run for President. She’ll be too old by 2016, and after last night, it’s clear Obama doesn’t have a chance.

Some definitely are racist and anti-muslim and anti-immigrant.

Well get out and press your ‘brown shirts ‘ and shine up the ‘black calf boots’ because what used to be a 50/50 moderate country has now bowed to the reactionary,extreme right wing. Make sure you get your approved ‘corporate America front yard signs’ planted real soon, oh and make sure the signs are approved by the ‘brown shirt council’ first. Happy days ahead.

That’s what the GOP/Media Complex keeps telling him.

So the democrats die. Viva Perry.

Elizabeth Warren is a great looking 62 year old!

The passing of the stimulus bill in February 2009 proved that Obama had the ability to pass whatever legislation he wanted no matter how united in opposition the Republicans were. He passed it BEFORE Franken was awarded his Senate seat to give the Democrats a 60-seat majority.

Obama has continued to pass the very legislation he has wanted: weak, industry-friendly healthcare “reform” with no public option; toothless financial regulatory “reform,” tax cut extensions for the rich, payroll tax cuts to make it easier to say social security and medicare are unsustainable without deep cuts, etc. Speaking of which, why would a Democratic president seek the gutting of the Democrats’ two most popular and successful social programs (that have been running surpluses for over two decades) unless he was a secret Republican?

Word. He’s just going to send out his Booster Clubbers to blame liberals for not voting when it was the indies who didn’t vote Democratic the way they did 2008.

“The election took place in an environment with a very unpopular democratic president.”

Go ahead and file that sentence, David. I think you might want to recycle it late in 2012.

“Just what to they have to run on?”

Why, ‘Stick; They can run on the “We’re not as bad as the republicans!” platform.

It worked great in the mid-terms!

Field Poll: Californians sour on Obama

“Even in heavily Democratic California, President Barack Obama’s job approval rating has plummeted among voters, largely on his handling of the economy, according to a new Field Poll.”

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/14/3908483/field-poll-californians-sour-on.html#ixzz1XwCxlj5E“

no kidding. Obama did the job he’s been well-paid to do: crash & burn the Democratic party. Heckuva job, Barackstar.

read that this morning. anyone surprised? yesterday I was spanked at another blog for having the nerve to say there wasn’t much difference between Obama & TeaPublicans. Oh well, sez I: live in your delusions if it makes you feel better, I guess. However, being in denial about Obama is NOT going to do much of anything for many real change (I know: is real change possible now?? unsure. but staying in denial will surely ensure that nothing will change).

We may be writing about how Obama lost the WH for years to come and it will include his great lost opportunity to take this country somewhere else and the opening to the conservatives who will want to dismantle the New Deal and Great Society.

“obama will undoubtedly move further right (the only way he moves, evidently)”

Obama is the Derek Zoolander of politics

Most people probably dismiss it as hyperbole when I say Obama is a secret Republican or a Republican mole. Think about this: How are Obama’s actions (forget his words) inconsistent with being such a person?

By the way, the notion that the campaign rhetoric of Obama’s jobs speech is going to be a…”pivot point” for a big turnaround, only it hasn’t kicked in yet, is laughable. He’s already caved on it by telling the republicans that he’ll sign pieces of it that they send him, instead of holding out for the entire bill.

Shorter Obama: “You guys go ahead and neuter it; just leave me enough to claim a “big win”, for the clap-louder contingent. Kinda like “healthcare reform” with no public option…So, John: you wanna do 18 at Burning tree soon?”

Unsurprisingly here’s yet more evidence of Obama politicizing departments. The Obama admin basically ordered that Solyndra be awarded a half billion dollar contract (Solyndra now gone BK) so that it was approved in time for a Biden speech:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/14/officials-raised-concerns-solar-firms-solvency-ahead-bankruptcy-emails-show/

Laughable if he wasn’t so destructive to everyone except his bosses the super rich.

I’ve lived in the the Queens part of NY-09 district for 52 years and am a liberal Democrat. To me this vote is very simple. We had no other way to tell the Democrats that we are fed up with Obama and a spineless Democratic party. This vote had nothing to do with Israel or religion or conservative immigrants. The district is about 40% Jewish, heavily Catholic and traditionally Democratic. This is not Archie Bunker land. We are frustrated and angry. The Democrats shoved a party machine hack politician onto the ballot and did not give us a chance to choose someone in a primary.

The Change Nobody Believes In says everyone eat your peas and do what you’re told. That worked well.

Sadly, this election will be further “proof” that Democrats need to tack to the right. There is no talking sense to the senseless D’s.

reply to talkingstick #2
The Democrats will find the craziest Republican they can find and run on fear of the crazy Republican and the Supreme Court.

After looking back, Obama should have attacked the economy issue first instead of the lame , GOP, Blue Dog, compromized health care issue.

As far as obumble is concerned the “ship” is doing just fine. obumble was not chosen by tptb to work for the good of the country, he was chosen to work for them. What is good for them is what is good for the country, as far as they are concerned. he was chosen because he could make a good speech and lie convincingly. he showed where he was going when he made the poor votes, or no votes, in the Senate (FISA, for example). Many of us hoped that he had some principles and backbone to end the long night of loss under w. We didn’t expect him to win every battle, but we did expect some real fight for the 98%. Instead, we got someone charged with resusitating the rethugs, which he did very well, and destroying the dims, which he is well on the way to doing. The dims are now a lost cause and most people are recognizing that, so I expect most to be swept out of office no matter how bad the rethug opposition is. Good-bye SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

obumble is like Nixon going to China: only a dim could destroy the dim party and all it stood for.

So you send Obama a message by voting for an Anti-Muslim republican. Still think the Jewish vote had a lot to do with it. Forty percent is a lot. A democrat needs the Jewish vote to win.

I humbly offer that perhaps we have destroyed the D party by putting up with the crap they’ve produced with barely a fight.

He should have worked as a junior manager at Dairy Queen and learned something about the importance of priorities in management.

alan: Looks that way from here in BIG H too. The Packers/Saints game might have been some really tough un-intentional counter-programming. Well, he gave it a shot. And, let’s not forget that “Burn Notice” is cable TV’s top rated action-adventure drama. Obama just can’t seem to catcha break.

N.Y. #26 special was lost last May. Could we be in a period where people just say fuck-you to incumbent/incumbent party?

I’d like to see crosstabs — for example, crossovers (R to D; D to R). The way I would approach voting is to go outside the two parties.

Yeah I spoke with some people who traipsed over to Welprin’s district for a press conference last Saturday. They all get there only to be told that since Welprin is Orthodox, he won’t be coming to the presser. So they asked the press guy why a presser was scheduled for a day that Welprin couldn’t attend, and the guy said “we didn’t know.”

That ignores NV-02, where Israel wasn’t a big issue.

The problem isn’t that liberal Democrats don’t vote (they do), it’s that whatever they or the Naderites do is swamped by the vast majority of indies and non-voters. Indies came out for Obama in 2008 because they wanted him to fix the economy and bring back jobs. Instead, he got a stimulus that wasn’t half as big as it needed to be, and pushed a deeply unpopular health care plan that was written by industry lobbyists (and which deep-sixed the one thing the public actually wanted, a public option, in order to get 2010 campaign cash from industry lobbyists). The result? 29 million people who voted Obama in 2008 didn’t vote for Democrats in 2010.

And despite how Obama and his fellow Blue Dog/Third Way types will spin it with the media’s help, this does not mean they dumped him for not being conservative enough. They dumped him for not fixing a 10% unemployment rate. They dumped him for being weak and dithering – which he is, except when he’s beating up on the party’s base or when he’s carrying water for Corporate America and Pete Peterson.

I remember when Jesse Ventura cruised to an easy win in a three-candidate race in 1998. How’d he do it? He got a lot of indies and non-voters to vote. How’d he get them to vote? By projecting an image of strength, bravery, and native intelligence, so much so that people who either had no ideology or whose ideology differed from his wound up casting their votes for him because he showed a willingness to go big or go home.

I think they got that “Rip Van Winkle” sleeping for 50 years things kinda goin’ on.

“and the opening to the conservatives who will want to dismantle the New Deal and Great Society.”

Obama started that already.

…”Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love the (Fascism)”

Well done. Vote em all out. Or just don’t vote em in in the first place :)

Stop pushing false issues. That’s lazy thinking. This area is populated by many peoples, including those who are Muslim or from the Middle East.

“Obama just can’t seem to catcha break.”

Poor guy. Born with a GOP foot up his ass.

Cate, can you or your friends in NY-09 post more on this? We’ll need you to counter the “NY-09 proves Obama must be more Republican than he is already” bullshit he’s using as an excuse to cuddle up even more to the corporate interests whose campaign cash he craves.

Very well put. People always look for leadership in a crisis. Caving and equivocating and backstabbing is not leadership.

Both Republicans that won are strong anti-choice candidates. I sure think that helped with the catholic vote. The war on women continues and no one cares as long as the dems and Obama lose. Seems to be a motivating factor here. I wish Obama would step aside and let someone else win but cheering when another ant-woman candidate wins is disgusting.

Gee, he looks to have been an even worse candidate than Ron Paul, who goes out of his way to p/o women (“abortion is THE most important issue”)& every other voting group he can figure out how to insult.

Obama resurrected what should have been a dead Republican Party and he has destroyed the Democratic Party. What a genius.

Yeah, people, please be fair. The guy needs another break. Let’s give him four (4) more years.
NOT!

Lesseee…the GOP picks up two more seats in the House, at the precise moment when Obama is begging them to let him have some kind of bogus jobs bill to wave around to the voters.

I don’t know if it will happen or not. It’s a tough call for republicans:

“Do we give him a little bowl of piss-thin “jobs” gruel, or, this early, do we want to publicly fess up to the fact that we own him?”

From a diary written by a New Yorker who campaigned for Obama in 2008:

However, I don’t think Israel  is really what cost Weprin the election, oddly the Koch gambit may have given the DNC some cover to try to spin the loss. I truly believe that this is solely and completely the result of Dem leadership, primarily at the WH, repeatedly dissing the base and not being stronger on stimulus.

“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

This is NYC! The bluest electorate on earth! Being a Dem in Queens is a secular religion for goodness sakes. If you have lost Queens Dems, you have lost the party.

Decisions like that are best left to corporate headquarters.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Opinion/94946/Op-Ed%3A-Jewish-Vote-Key-To-Weiners-Seat—And-Swing-States-Too.html

Personally, I don’t think the anti-choice issue had much to do with this election. This was a jobs and economy vote. As for the catholic vote, I mentioned the percentage of Jewish voters for one reason only, to enlighten people who believe that this is a conservative, heavily orthodox district. My family is Protestant and Catholic. Most Catholics that I know are thoughtful people who do not vote in blocks. They think for themselves. Most Catholics are not anti-choice bigots.

I think he is going to TRY (ostensibly) to move to the left. It will be a charade, of course, in that there is nothing substantive that he can do to implement warmed-over campaign rhetoric and turn it into reality, even if he wanted to…which he doesn’t.

From here on out, everything is Kabuki. Really, it has been, since the mid-terms. We’re moving into 16 months of the lamest lameduck in a long time. Maybe, ever. The political vacuum he’s created in just over 2 and a half years is going to be filled with some really awful shit, even worse than we’ve already seen.

Maybe we need another president with some of these

Untitled1111.jpg

I have a question for you Alan, if you don’t mind.

How is it possible that Obama has just terrible approval ratings with independents, after his genius governing style of moving to the right because “he is the President of all Americans, not just liberals and Democrats” (not your quote, afaik, but one I hear from the bots)?

From your linked article:

Forty-six percent of independents say they definitely won’t vote to re-elect the president, compared to 21 percent who definitely will support him. In 2008, Obama was backed by 52 percent of independent voters, compared to 44 percent who backed Republican nominee John McCain, an Arizona senator, according to exit polls.

The bottom line is that progressive policies, when described to the American people, are very popular. And another bonus, they actually work. Imagine that. Obama ran on a progressive platform, that he abandoned as soon as he received the Dem nomination.

Obama may retire as an extremely rich and wealthy man, but his name will still be forever known in American history as a LOSER. Hope that is a bitter pill for him to swallow.

Exactly, the Dems were so eager to dump Weiner, who I felt was standing up to the issues that meant alot to me. If I were a voter in that district, I would have stayed home and let the damn place go to the GOP just like I think alot of voters did. This is a mini snapshot of what is going down in 2012. I cannot find any difference anymore in the GOP and the DEMs. This whole Medicare, SS and Medicaid is really a joke. The Dems are out there blasting the Tea Party for the attack against the big three while the Super Congress is working it over as we speak…and as Dennis Kucinich said, it was Obama who put the Three on the table, not the Tea Party.

I think that Obama and his supporters deliberately choose to use elections like this as an excuse to do what they want to do, that is, move to the right. Voters who persist in fooling themselves by thinking that Obama is a liberal who is being pushed around or forced to side with Republicans or right-wing Democrats are delusional. They don’t want to know the truth.

The man is NOT a loser. He has won everything and more than Dick Cheney ever dreamed of accomplishing. He will go down in history as a hero for the oligarchs.

Yes. I also have held some hope for Democrats keeping some power in Congress. That is why I tend to defend Nancy Pelosi and the other liberals. They are in a terrible position with Obama as the head of their party.. But now I have pretty will lost hope since Obama knee-capped them by going for the safety net, their best issue..

The Democrats will find the craziest Republican they can find and run on fear of the crazy Republican and the Supreme Court.

One crazier than Obama?

If that’s not treachery, I don’t know what is. Truly despicable, but not out of character.

LOL I smell a snark. :-)

Almost a hundred comments and all of them whiny. You liberal freaks know that the current economic problems began with demigod Ronald Reagan yet you expect this president to turn decades of policy around in a few short years. Not only do you expect him to perform miracles, you also reward the republican party by sitting out elections. I guess it’s easier for you freaks to whine than it is to take action to ensure that republicans don’t continue to widen the chasm between the haves and have nots. You people are pathetic. You may now continue with your whining – IDIOTS.

Bravo cate. Yes I believe exactly what you are saying. This is how I feel about the Dems and why I am not voting. In the first place that district did not want Weiner to leave and the Washington Dems should have stayed out of it and let the district deal with Weiner. Other Reps have had their problems and survived, Clinton, Kennedy, Rangle to name a few.

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary throughout and for the info you provided concerning this election in your district (about which I knew little). Not being from there (in fact from CA), I have little idea of what would motivate voters in your district. I take what you say with a small grain of salt, but your insights certainly accord with how most voters (esp trad-Dems) feel anymore.

The so-called “Democratic” party seems to be purposely ramming crappy candidates down voters’ throats, and then hey, big surprise! The crappy TeaPublican wins due to indies and Dems sitting out the vote process.

I can certainly believe it, and fwiw, I feel it’s being done by design. But that’s just me. Now Obama has further “incentive” to move to the RIGHT in order to satisfy his real “constituents,” which are mainly the mega-wealthy corporate overlords who pay him off, as well as Tea Party voters, to whom Obama continues to fruitlessly curry favor.

Thanks for being so gracious in your insights.

My advice, fwiw, would be for you to hold your breath until O does something progressive.

And thanks for calling us idiots instead of retards. I’m so ready to get fired up!

I have a genetic disposition against all things gop.

But seriously and objectively, do you really think Mitt will be any worse than Obama even with a repub congress?

The Democrats did not chose to see the 800,000 that did not vote in the Scott Brown election as a sign of protest – just a bad candidate.

Any Democratic loss will be “just a bad candidate – local issues” and not a vote on Obama because Obama’s far right decision to destroy Medicare and Social Security and to prevent the return of the Clinton Tax rates or the passage of a public option are just Obama being for ALL the people and not beholden to the left – to the base – of the the Democratic Party.

What a good man Obama is. On 9/9/2011, Friday, Hillary was asked “What’s the likelihood that you’re going to challenge President Obama in the primary? You know, you’ve got Dick Cheney in your court,” by CNN’s Alison Kosik – and she responded “Oh, yeah. It’s below zero,” while laughing. That made many folks very happy.

“He will go down in history as a hero for the oligarchs.”

That’s not how they write the history books.

You’re right. But that’s not how it will be written.

Tony Roberts, is that you?

I don’t think it’ll make much difference, even if it’s Rick Perry. I shudder to have someone like Romney or Perry as POTUS, but frankly, my observation, fwiw, is that the POTUS position is now merely a wholly owned subsdidiary of the MIC. The mega-wealthy choose who’ll be POTUS and ensure that their candidate “wins.” All this other crap is just Kabuki show ginned up into fooling voters into believing we have some kind of “say” in the process. I really don’t think we do. That’s JMHO, of course, others may disagree.

Once the POTUS is “elected” – no matter from which “party” – the POTUS then does as s/he is told by the corporations who bought him/her. While we can wring our hands over the likes of TeaPublicans like Perry & Bachmann, I truly believe that there would be little difference between a Perry POTUS and an Obama POTUS. Perry (or Romney) would behave much as Obama does and serve the corporate hand that feeds him. I think it’s naive (imo) to believe that somehow Perry would actually get to “decide” stuff… he won’t… just like Obama doesn’t.

Again, just my 2 cents worth. Others will disagree or agree as they see fit.

Hey we are the “have nots” you Limosine Liberal and SS, Medicare and Medicaid are not a problem but a very big bone for him to through to his Republican friends and Blue Dog Faux Democrats. It appears that we are hitting a nerve now. We are irrelevant, remember, we have “no where to go” so you thought we would just let the real freaks up in Washington kick us around and run back to the polls and say “give us some more” !! It is clear that we will have nothing with the Dems so what difference does it make to have the Repubs. ASSHOLE

A good beginning would have been to force the Bush tax cuts to expire and holding out for cost controls and fairness in the AHCA. We don’t expect miracles But just what has he done or even tried to do? ZIP

heh…

How about, “The republicans are despicable and inhuman and want to let poor sick people die. We’re just inept. Vote DEMOCRATIC!”

I think I like you. Wanna ride bikes?

Don’t cry, there really is a Santa Claus, and Obama wuvs you very much.

Do.

Not.

Feed…

Thanks for your comments. You should take my comments with a grain of salt. This is my view of things and right now I am furious so that affects my thinking.

that’s what I’d like to know: WTF has Obama even *tried* to do?? Other than push the agenda to right and curry favor with TeaPublicans and enact a corporate-friendly/wealth-friendly agenda???

Cut Soc Sec & Medicare?? Yeah, right. Let me RUSH (take that anyway you like) get behind that agenda!! Truly progressive, that one. But let’s whiiiine about how Obama can’t help it bc of the meanie-bully Weepwubwicans… it’s all their fault.

sheah, RIGHT (take that anyway you want)….

To take a contrary POV for just a moment (not that I necessarily believe it; just to see what responses it elicits), one might argue that only a D can dismantle SS, MC. There is more pushback in places like WI when Rs do it, although that may not be too-little-too-late pushback.

Ha!

But seriously. There has been absolutely no indication from Obama that he intends to do any of the things he campaigned on. The ACA made things worse, and that’s the closest thing he can claim to a victory. DADT repeal is still being held up in some form or another, so that’s out. The Obama Tax cuts have put us in a deeper hole than we started in with no tangible benefit to the economy at large.

He’s screwed us at every turn in ways we couldn’t even imagine. You know, like torturing an American soldier on American soil. Flying drones over the US. Escalating Afghanistan. Military actions in Libya.

Where’s a progressive supposed to find hope in any of this?

I only use the grain of salt bc, as you say, I don’t know you, and I don’t live there… but I have a feeling that you’re views are quite valid. So thanks again and I don’t blame you for your righteous anger. I feel the same way.

Yes. The Republicans are all that. But how do the Democrats prove they are different as they cut SS, Medicare, and of course cut taxes for the rich Corporations.

Well, yes. Exactly right. I have trad-Dem friends, who constantly give Obama a break and say just what that commenter said: Obama can’t help it because he “inherited” a mess, and the Republicans are so “mean.”

Well, ok: sure. That’s true.

But then that just buys into the meme that “there’s nothing that can be done, and so that’s that.”

Spare me.

When Bush was elected, all he did was use the bully pulpit to shout about his “mandates” and how he was using his “political capital.” I loathe W like crazy, but I use him as *stark contrast* to Obama, who truly & honestly had a real voter mandate & a TON of political capital, plus walked into real majorities in the House & Senate. And WTF did Obama do??? Enact a corporate-friendly wealth-friendly agenda, push the goal posts to the far right, and set up the Cat Food Commission with well-known rightwingers who HATE Soc Sec & Medicare, and then start discussing how he, Obama, is now ready to gut Soc Sec & Medicare (both of which are self-funded and doing just fine, thanks very much).

Saying that Obama “can’t help it,” just enables Obama to continue being a rightwing Republican. But duly noted that’s just what many trad-Dems are doing, and it’s just being co-dependent with a corrupt Administration who is clearly NOT working in the better interests of the small people voters who elected this Admin. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Call me an idiot, if that makes you feel better, but then what I say is: keep clapping louder for Tinkerbell!

i think the romney presidency will be marginally worse than obama’s, policy-wise

but the net effect will be postive bc the left will unify and grow in response to gop/conservative control unlike today where obama stands as the primary obstacle to the left

In any event, hanging on by a fingernail.

Yes, Mitt will be worse. He is a job destroying anti-union, anti-abortion, anti-gay billionaire that argues that corporation are people. Look what vulture bain capital did to workers.

“That IS a puzzlement.”
Could be tough to put a positive spin on that.

Obama’s support has plummeted with “Independents”, the group of voters he’s supposedly trying to impress with his consistent moves to the right. If he continues with this, it’ll be more and more apparent the true reason he’s consistently pushing to the right, and it’s not to win “Independents”.

That’s the only logical conclusion.

Obama can’t wait to kneel before Republicans like a puppy dog. At the same time, he can’t wait to throw everything progressive under the bus.

I am still waiting for evidence that he is not a Trojan horse.

Look at what Solyndra did to workers.

I’ve been around for 60 years and nothing economically good for the middle class EVER happened under a republican administration. The ONLY “people” who do well are the rich, the filthy rich, the coporations, and the MIC.

It’s hard to tell is he is following a “strategic plan” or just throwing darts at a dart board. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Mission Accomplished!

Your framing is inaccurate. We’re not talking about something good happening under any administration. We’re talking about preventing something bad.

I would rather be knifed with the person looking at me than to be knifed in the back. Just sayn!

Again, NV-02 is not a swing district. It has always voted Republican. It backed McCain (by a slim margin) in 08. It would be huge news if a Dem won that district. To suggest it is a swing district, and imply that Reno is a left-leaning population center, and then include it in a list of the failings of Obama is unfair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada%27s_2nd_congressional_district

Back in comment 68 I suggested that also.

The dims are now a lost cause and most people are recognizing that, so I expect most to be swept out of office no matter how bad the rethug opposition is. Good-bye SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

obumble is like Nixon going to China: only a dim could destroy the dim party and all it stood for

.

obumble has done a great job for the job that he’s done.

Pick on one green company after all that has been done to workers by corporate vulchers like Romney. You must be a real republican not a closeted one.

Honestly, this is how I think of it.

Think of how hard life was in the U.S. in the 1700s. Or the late 1800s. There is no guarantee in this life that things are going to be easy, fair, rewarding, etc. Like you are strapped into a roller coaster, we are headed down a scary path. Nothing you can do but hang on and try to enjoy the ride.

I agree that progressive policies, when described to the American people, are very popular. Such as LBJ’s War on Poverty. Who could be against that?

One of the problems comes with your stated bonus – that they actually work.

According to the Census Bureau, after spending $17Trillion dollars on poverty since the ’60′s poverty rages on. I think even though Obama ran on a progressive platform, that he abandoned as soon as he received the Dem nomination because promising is easy, delivering is hard.

I’m triple tasking. On 2 threads & listening to wnyc. Sorry I missed yours. I owe you a drink. Name your poison.

A lot of people here want all three branches to go republican to punish the dems. The dems may need punishing but it is a huge price to pay. They could make themselves quite permanent with racist national voter ID law.

Democrats and Republicans can rot in hell for all I care.

SS solved a HUGE percent of poverty in the U.S.: among the elderly.

The reason why poverty prevention didn’t work elsewhere was bc the programs were never big enough. Prolly on purpose so that the poor could be blamed for their own state. I wrote a report on welfare reform back in the day. Without looking up the stats, I wondered why bother. Back then welfare was something like 1.8% (iirc) of federal budget. A lost decimal point for DOD.

Oh, nothing. I like to read your comments and figured that you had missed mine because you were busy. I just thought you might like to know that our great minds were on the same track.

Well, I’m going to make sure I’m not around for the cocktail hour in case you change your mind. *g*

carelton,
you reflect exactly what is wrong with your current dems as well as bo. Lacking anything positive to run on, it’s fear of the other and what could happen if dems don’t win. This is a far cry from the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

BO and these current dems can all go to hell. If there is any semblance of concern about rebuilding the party, they’ll recognize where they went wrong and “do” instead of talking pure bullshit. At some point people ignore bullshit, especially when it’s always fear driven!

LOL!

IMHO,when one has gotten the gentle and thoughtful Talking Stick this angry, then one must have truly fucked up on a monumental level. What more proof is required? ;-)

One of the problems comes with your stated bonus – that they actually work. According to the Census Bureau, after spending $17Trillion dollars on poverty since the ’60′s poverty rages on. I think even though Obama ran on a progressive platform, that he abandoned as soon as he received the Dem nomination because promising is easy, delivering is hard.

Delivering progressive policy certainly is hard, in fact its damn near impossible if you don’t even try. For instance, making sure there aren’t any progressive voices in your economic team, that would come under the category of things he had control over (I assume…maybe). But Obama taking affirmative action to dismantle the social safety net, like creating the Cat Food commission and naming Alan Simpson as co-head….there is no possible way to spin that as anything other than betrayal. And there are a million more examples like it.

As far as the 17 trillion, and not winning “the war on poverty”….this country has been implementing right wing fiscal policy for the last 30 years. It has failed continuously, it isn’t going to start working tomorrow, fuckers.

Yeah, the wealth is going to start trickling down any minute now.

Any minute now.

And there’s more work for O to do. Over half the Ds still approve of him.

When these boy and girl members of the House put forward legislation and amendments, who writes that stuff and puts them up to it?

When they cast their votes, are they acting independently, voting on behalf of their local constituency, or doing what they’re told?

When Elizabeth Warren left DC, D-Day & Jane both predicted she would not run against Brown.

Wasn’t Obama persuaded to run (a decade early) only to stop HRC from winning? Ever since Anyone But Bush, most elections are strategic prevent defenses.

This is how I feel about the Dems and why I am not voting

At least write in single payer. :)

I’d like the link for the $17 trillion. It sounds wildly high to me. Total USG spending in 1960 was $97 billion & welfare was $3 billion of that. Welfare dropped to 2% of budget by mid-60s.

Stockholm syndrome, most likely.

I’m nostalgic for silly policies of the past like the War on Poverty.

LMAO sorry that is funny shit right there.

The first significant beneficiary cohort of SS (born 1900-1925) became the real estate ‘Boomers’ when they relocated to FL & AZ, bringing tens of millions (money and jobs) with them. Hardly anything lasts more than three generations, least of all prosperity.

Second time for Stockholm syndrome today. Exceedingly well used in both applications. (Other was for Warren whose senate announce is now front page.)

And the tea party repugs are not fear driven. They fear minorities, women and unions.

Me, too. Perry will give us the war on the poor as he has done in Texas.

When Warren did the interview in vanity fair I knew she was running.

Rant Score: 7.5

I know nothing about her except what’s been said about her at Firedoglake. Is she anything like Glenda Jackson?

Here’s Andy Ostroy, self-styled “Political and Pop Culture analyst”, pimping for Hillary to make a run at Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/weiners-district-goes-rep_b_961868.html

He could have been more honest and saved some bandwidth by just saying:

“Hey, Hil! The dems just lost a seat they’ve held for 90 years. Maybe your savvy triangulation strategy will work this time around!” :o)

If the republicans are suicidal enough to nominate Perry, what he’ll probably give us is four more years of Barack Obama’s “centrist” bullshit.

and THAT, Carleton, is the scariest thing about the man.

Aitch, why would Obama and his secret handlers (whomever they were…) have been obsessed with stopping Hillary?

Were they upset about the fact that, unlike 21 other democratic senators, she helped bush cook the bloody koolaid, and kept selling it for nearly 5 years, until she saw it ruining her chances for the White House?

“…I knew she was running…”

Well, she better do two things:

She better start serving up some red meat for the voters, AND, she better start distancing herself from Obama.

Scolding our corporate lords like they had overdue libary books will not cut it….which fact should have been evident a while back, and was made even plainer in the two special elections yesterday.

You are a good student of human emotion. :-)

How should I know? May I guess? It had to do with foreign trade and exploitation, especially in the Arab and Muslim sectors.

About her Authorization vote and her refusal to recant, I give her a pass since she was a Senator from the state that was attacked, she inherited a devil’s bargain. However, she used her pulpit to get legislation and money for first responders.

A Romney presidency will do one other very important thing:

It will show future democratic contenders that you can’t run as a progressive and govern as a republican, and survive politically.

Speaking for myself, that is worth a lot of asshat SCOTUS appointees. The alternative, of continuing to support Obama after he has dragged the democratic party squarely back into the political shitter, is not an option for me.

In my lifetime, there have been several presidential electiosn that included anti-voting. Lots of people voted “against” Goldwater because of the “pro war” agenda the DNC accused him of. Ford lost election because many people said “I will not vote for the guy who pardoned Nixon.” Carter lost his support over the Iran hostage crisis, which everyone was reminded of NIGHTLY by Ted Koppel.

Lots of votes against GHW Bush and the GOP because of the dismal economy and ‘cuz he was out of touch with America and didn’t know how much a gallon of milk cost. Not so much pro-Clinton. And then there was 2008.

I don’t know, eCAHN. Warren strikes me as being a different kind of animal than what we are used to. I think she may be too gentle but I think her heart is in the right place. We’ll see.

Perry is no centrist. He is hard hard right and proud of it.

Well, a headpat from such a source will certainly help me get thru my day lol.

“She used her pulpit and her money for first responders”

Big. Hairy. Deal. Was she going to oppose that on principle?

You’ll give her a pass for helping enable a bloody, useless, war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people and cost astronomical sums of money? A war that has led to the enshrining of some of the worst policies in our government in a long, long, time?

Do you give her a pass for supporting Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut primary, over a good anti-war candidate?

She gets a pass for sucking up to the american right, when she ran for the nomination?

I guess our Hillary-mileage varies.

Good pooint as usual. We’ve got a little group of about 30 down here equally split. Half won’t vote for Obama again. The other half won’t vote for a republican no matter what.

Of course, in Texas, IF Perry gets the nomination, we’re ALL united against him.

Massachusetts is one state where Obama will win so if she runs with him she will be okay. What she doesn’t need is Obama Brown ticket splitting.

Yep.

“He is hard right and proud of it.”

Of course he is. That’s why he’s repeatedly said that SS is a “ponzi scheme”. It’s also why he’s not going to be the republican nominee. The repub power brokers are not into political suicide.

His main role for democrats is as one more wingnut feardoll for “centrist” democrats to shake at us and shreik: “See what you’ll get if you don’t stay the course with Obama?”

For the umpteenth time: “We’re not as bad as the republicans!” didn’t work in the mid-terms (boy, did it not work…) and it’s going to be an even shittier campaign slogan for the general in 2012.

I would disagree in each respect but to no useful purpose. More to the point, since 1960 most voters stayed home every time.

I think that will be true factually.

I also think the media will spin an Obama defeat as he moved too far to the left, believe it or not. Given the media that shouldn’t be too hard to believe.

If Warren hopes to win, what she needs is “Warren-Obama ticket splitting”…as in, she splits from Obama. Early and often. :o)

And I don’t think she’s got the political courage to do that. Which shortcoming was, for me, clearly demonstrated when she let Obama jerk her around like a marionette, for most of a year.

I think Perry is going to be the nominee. The republican elite does not like him but the primaries are stacked in his favor. He will win Iowa, SC, Florida and Nevada and be well on his way to the nomination. The tea party controlled the 2010 republican primaries and they will again. I wish Obama would step aside but I don’t think he is.

Do you give her a pass for supporting Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut primary, over a good anti-war candidate?

Joe called for Bill’s resignation in a major speech in the Senate, saying he’s sad that his granddaughter can’t watch TV anymore without hearing about oral sex. It’s not like Hillary could really be Emma Thompson, who portrayed her in Primary Colors.

We’re on the outside looking in and know nothing.

I don’t care about the tea party and they should not serve as a model or basis for constructive action.

California is turning away from Obama for another reason.. Obie actively opposed the marijuana initiative and permanently shaved about 15 per cent of previous supporters off his base..
This issue got 46% approval, and has millions of true believers who vote.

Dear IdiotsAll (what an appropriate name!)

you write:

“you expect this president to turn decades of policy around in a few short years.”

I reply, yes, we do. And in fact, perversely, that is what Obama has done. In a few short years he has demolished the Democratic Party. Heckavajob, Barry!

A few short years? That’s what you call a presidential first term? Most presidential candidates hit the ground running. They know, after having grown up in the Kennedy years and thence onward, that nothing is certain with respect to second terms. Just look at the record. You do what you were put in office to do, or you will go down in history on the basis of that lacklustre first term, and that is what is going to happen to Obama. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving candidate.

The overwhelming sadness of this is that it could have and should have been otherwise. We have been anything but the silent majority, so he cannot say he wasn’t warned. This debacle is deliberate, as people are saying – the collusion with the rich and mighty has been ongoing in previous Democratic administrations, but it is Obama that has given the coup de grace, and we shall not forget it.

I love the American voter. Thom Hartmann is doing his best to debunk the ‘unenlightened’ populace since he has tied his fortunes to the destroyers, against his own deep felt (I think) instincts. Has to be turning him into a pretzel inside. We don’t follow you down the drainhole, Thom, sorry ’bout that. We can (and you have helped us do this in the past) think for ourselves, and we are doing just that. When you speak the truth we shall support what you say, but that doesn’t mean we are your devoted minions.

As to the quote I mentioned above, IdiotAll, I would just add the following:

“Roosevelt did! (Both of them!) And in spite of everything the Powers that Be are doing to us to make us forget -

WE REMEMBER

Here is what I observe. We have government “representatives” from the President to Congressional members which rely on the political donor class and especially the super rich to tell them how to run this country. We have lost representational government which is detrimental to ALL citizens. There will continue to be this back and forth, back and forth, between Democratic and Republican candidates until people start asking the question…is this working for us?

What does the Democratic party represent? What does the Republican party represent? Does either party represent the best interests of the country as a whole? Based upon recent past and current events, it would appear the answer is no. This country is fracturing before my eyes on so many levels…morally, politically, economically. Where are the “leaders” who will put the interests of the country first before that of “the few”. Has the plutocracy gained such a stranglehold on this country that the people are inconsequential and if so, what does that mean for our future?

I find this whole weak or shitty candidate crap laughable. What do first run Dem Congress candidates have to run on? That they are anti-Obama Democrats? LOL Reminds me of the 06 elections when Rahm Emanuel, as Party enforcer, was running around telling first run Dem Congress candidates to “tone down” their anti-war rhetoric or the Party would cut off their funding. What did they do? They toned it down or would be very limited in their chance of winning without Party funding and support. The point being, Dem candidates are often weak and shitty by design and necessity rather than necessarily by their own choice. But I guess it’s alot easier to blame the individual candidates rather than the Party itself. If they had won, would they still be weak or shitty candidates? LOL

Also reminds me of those blaming Nader for Gore’s defeat, again laughable Dem Party propoganda.

You are right.

Here is the speech right after the 2012 election goes down the tubes.

“I could have been a great President if it were not for George Bush. I am certain I would have been re-elected if liberals had just appreciated what I had done for them. It’s all still here, they just didn’t notice.”

You WON’T hear them using the same spin they used on other shocking losses–the spin Jane points out.

“Democrats should not despair. We lost because we had a weak candidate.”

This all may be true, but Democratic officials also stressed what they were doing, whether putting in $500,000 of having 1000 get out the vote.

On Tuesday morning, one Democratic official said, “We have 1000 people out in the district getting out the vote. Turner has no one.”

So, you can’t blame it all on the candidate. Especially an experienced one vs a guy who never ran for anything before.

Whatever the spin, it doesn’t matter. The practical effect is that it gives the GOP license to just ignore Obama and anything he says or threatens. In fact, since the debt debate was well known before this election and the initial resistance to the “jobs” bill known, it demonstrates concretely that there is no penalty to ignoring him, and maybe a plus side.

And, it isn’t just here. People in high positions around the world are beginning to ignore him too.

I’m intensely curious to know what the voter turnout was–how much of this situation occurred because of voters simply staying home. Hope someone can come up with that information.

Gee, anymore results like this and Obama will be forced to go right of Perry!

Yes, ‘stick, it was a snark. The little so-and-so broke wind, cackled, and then took off. :o)

There are more and more of them around these days.

It’s about all we’ve got left.