The White House has signaled with its deficit reduction and job creation plan, smashed together in one report to the Super Committee, that it is not interested in continuing negotiations behind closed doors with the GOP aimed at a grand bargain.
They may still want that grand bargain, as they have wanted it for two-plus years. But my takeaway is they aren’t going to expend an ounce more political capital to achieve it.
This is evident in the early GOP responses to the plan and the accompanying speeches. Mitch McConnell and John Boehner ran out of adjectives to describe their anger at the plan.
“Veto threats, a massive tax hike, phantom savings, and punting on entitlement reform is not a recipe for economic or job growth — or even meaningful deficit reduction. The good news is that the Joint Committee is taking this issue far more seriously than the White House,” McConnell said in a statement.
Boehner echoed McConnell in a separate statement.
“Pitting one group of Americans against another is not leadership. The Joint Select Committee is engaged in serious work to tackle a serious problem: the debt crisis that is making it harder to get our economy growing and create more American jobs,” Boehner said.
“Unfortunately, the President has not made a serious contribution to its work today,” Boehner continued. “This administration’s insistence on raising taxes on job creators and its reluctance to take the steps necessary to strengthen our entitlement programs are the reasons the president and I were not able to reach an agreement previously, and it is evident today that these barriers remain.”
Other Republican statements are the same, essentially variations on denouncing the plan as political posturing.
I would say the President has not made a serious contribution to the work of the Super Committee, because he has gotten no support for any of the multitude of so-called “serious contributions,” which should be read as “meeting Republicans on their own terms,” that he has put forward over the past year and a half. All this has done has taken the country down a self-destructive austerity path while crashing support for the President and his party. According to the informed take of Ezra Klein, this can be best seen in last week’s special elections:
The administration was initially pleased to see press reports detailing their willingness to compromise and surveys showing the American people thought the GOP far more intransigent. In their theory of politics, that meant they were winning. But they soon learned that voters aren’t interested in compromises that don’t lead to results. Obama looked like a nice guy, and that kept him personally popular. But he looked like an ineffectual leader, and that led his job approval to dip below 40 percent in some polls.
Perhaps the final and most conclusive evidence that the strategy had failed came last week, when Democrats lost special elections in Nevada and New York. Both seats were winnable for the Democrats. Both were lost to candidates who focused most of their fire on the president. It was a far cry from the special election in May, when Democrat Kathy Hochul picked up a Republican-leaning seat by hammering her opponent’s support for Rep. Paul Ryan’s Medicare-slashing budget.
The White House could have been hammering that message since the day the House Republican Conference passed Ryan’s budget. They didn’t. The truth is, they didn’t want to. The president doesn’t think of himself as that kind of Democrat. He believes that there are sensible cuts that can be made to both Medicare and Social Security. He would like to win by governing effectively, by cutting deals with the other party, by making Washington work. He doesn’t want to run a generic Democratic campaign hammering Republicans for being willing to cut Medicare even as they cut taxes on the rich.
And for the last few months, he gave what Sarah Palin might call “the hopey-changey thing” a shot. But it failed. The choice, it turned out, wasn’t between winning by making tough choices and hard compromises and winning by running as a populist. It was between losing because he was unable to get Washington to make tough choices and hard compromises and trying something else. So now the White House is trying something else.
The coda to this is that progressive critics of the Presidential strategy screamed that this wouldn’t work from the very beginning. They said that Republicans were too dug in on anti-tax ideology to ever agree to any grand bargain. They said that this “I’m the most reasonable guy in the room” pose would not have any resonance with voters, who will judge on tangible results. They said that a focus on deficit reduction would distract from the key issue that will decide the 2012 election, core economic performance. And after 18 months in the wilderness, the White House is coming around to believe that this is correct. “Changing Washington” has been traded in for actually drawing a contrast. The language in the President’s speech is very explicit.
It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million. Anybody who says we can’t change the tax code to correct that, anyone who has signed some pledge to protect every single tax loophole so long as they live, they should be called out. They should have to defend that unfairness — explain why somebody who’s making $50 million a year in the financial markets should be paying 15 percent on their taxes, when a teacher making $50,000 a year is paying more than that — paying a higher rate. They ought to have to answer for it. And if they’re pledged to keep that kind of unfairness in place, they should remember, the last time I checked the only pledge that really matters is the pledge we take to uphold the Constitution [...]
It comes down to this: We have to prioritize. Both parties agree that we need to reduce the deficit by the same amount — by $4 trillion. So what choices are we going to make to reach that goal? Either we ask the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share in taxes, or we’re going to have to ask seniors to pay more for Medicare. We can’t afford to do both.
Either we gut education and medical research, or we’ve got to reform the tax code so that the most profitable corporations have to give up tax loopholes that other companies don’t get. We can’t afford to do both.
This is not class warfare. It’s math.
You can quibble with the desired outcome, but you cannot deny that this represents an actual choice. The time for deal making is over. We’re on a course of highlighting contrasts for the next several months.




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TanMan: “Pitting one group of Americans against another is not leadership.”
Irony just died and is buried next to Lee Atwater.
Thank god the election will be over in 14 months and we can get back to the Blue Dog, half measure, Caveman instead of the Blue Dog, half measure, Caveman blaming the GOP for his foibles.
Nobody cares anymore what the President says.
“Class warfare” is the new Repug attack buzzword. It’s getting repeated everywhere in the MSM.
I always find it peculiarly odd that the MSM never seems to remark on the fact that the Repugs always accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.
Repugs have been conducting “class warfare” for decades.
“Class warfare” in support of the permanent ruling overclass of MOTU billionaires, millionaires, and other sundry robber barons.
“Class warfare” against the poor, the minorities, and the middle class.
“Class warfare” against unions, teachers, scientists, and government workers.
The outrage that Repugs express today with their charges of “Class warfare” are only outweighed by depth of their beliefs in their own lies.
Pitting one group of Americans against another is not leadership, eh?
Project much, Mr. Boehner?
Really?? Shouldn’t the President at least be honest and state the bought and paid for POLITICIANS of both political parties agree to draconian cuts.
He’s a friggin’ multiplex.
The sad thing is that he and so many other Third Way types actually believe that the deficit will eat us all.
An actual choice? Or a false choice.
Obama is missing it on loopholes.
Boehner: Yes, tax reform should include closing loopholes.
Cantor: If the president wants to talk loopholes, we’ll be glad to talk loopholes.
Why is Obama AWOL on loopholes and misrepresenting the opposition?
Institute for Policy Studies, a liberal think tank, named in a new report 25 major American corporations whose CEOs were paid more last year than their firm’s total U.S. income tax bill. Of those business elites, 10 have substantive ties to Obama.
If you think that the Democrats haven’t been complicit in accomplishing the goals of the oligarchs you’re not being objective and only fooling yourself. They are just more circumspect by covering their actions with rhetoric to the contrary.
exactly – Obama is a great progressive for elections, not so great a progressive after winning. Indeed Obama is far right GOP after winning.
But this will make for a lot of material for the talking heads on Sunday and on MSNBC – if anyone still cares.
Barry has taken a golf vacation and turned over the podium to his Community organizer twin Barack till after election time. Barack’s specialty is winning elections and Barry’s is running things for his oligarch pals on Wall st. et. al.
Nobody believes anymore what the President says.
That is the part of this I object to: there is no reason we should be reducing the deficit now. But asking the wealthy to fork over more money is the right way to go. Call it class warfare if you like. But it is the right thing. There are 46 million people living in poverty in this country. Wasn’t there once a war on poverty? I guess we are losing.
Yep, but anything he does to advance the cause of the middle class is good.
Anything that keeps Obama from the negotiating table is a good thing. He’d probably offer to eliminate Social Security and Medicare in exchange for some meaningless concession on the Republicans’ part.
Pay no attention to that. It’s just the MSM’s part in the ongoing KABUKI SHOW. Barry Zer0 calls for a fair tax on those making $1mill/year or more, but the MSM was already lined up to trot out their usual propoganda about UNFAIR this all is… “That One” in the White House is now waging “Class Warfare” against the mega wealthy.
Shuh… right. We should be so lucky.
But it plays well for the dittoheads, who can be relied on to get all het up on behalf of their rich overlords… tugging their Galtian forelocks at the same time, no doubt.
I think it is a big mistake for the Republicans to start crying class warfare. Do they really want people to start thinking in those terms? It will be very hard framing what has happened in the US the last 30 years any other way.
It will also cost him the election IMHO.
Stop making sense!!! Facts do NOT matter to conservatives. It’s all in how the fantasy world is framed. Rush is right now directing his dittoheads on what to think & say. IF conservatives *perceive* any problem, then it’ll be blamed on so-called “Democrats,” esp “That One” in the White House. The end.
Good chance he is past the use by date.
The problem is, when you ask people with high inocomes to pay too much, they put their money elsewhere to shield their incomes from taxes.
yep.
Obama’s compromise/middle-of-the-road/I’m not crazy strategy helped him get elected President and head of Harvard Law Review, but when it comes to the actual running of a country versus a bunch of maniacs, it’s failed.
If this had been his starting point, it would have set the tone, especially if he holds to these positions. But the R’s already called his bluff because he’s compromised too much to this point.
We’re looking at automatic cuts from the SuperCongress now, and everyone can throw up their hands and blame the “other guys”.
Wellm if obama were not such a wus he would send the IRS after the bastards.
It’s both.
Doing plenty of that ALREADY, no? What does it look like after we gut it more? For Obama to acknowledge he drank the billionaire koolaid and is waging war on public education, that would be more honest.
It’s easy to talk the talk and a little tougher to actually walk the walk, like putting on some comfortable shoes and walking Mr. President.
The right walk , if we’re to buy what your selling now, was to let the bush tax cuts end, the walk. The President who insured that the tax cuts were extended now talks about raising the taxes, that’s called Bullshitting someone Sir or talking hot air.
Same way with the wars, sometime after the President leaves office they will end and will save a bunch of money, the talk. The walk was to walk away from the Magnificent Mindless Merican Murder Machine endless wars when the President came into office. Then walk back the gluttonous military budget and influence instead of cowering in the Oval office.
Didn’t take him long to forget the lessons of humility and humanity Rev. Wright sermons brought up back in the day.
Yes but remember the American electorate elected GWB twice so their memory might be a little foggy. They also are being bombarded with MSM propaganda 24/7 that and trying not to starve to death. The R’s are very good at confusing the American people I used to be one of them. My 2 cents.
so we just do nothing just because doing something is, uh, too difficult or something. great plan!
LOL! Good point.
Wanna bet?
No war but class war.
We’re supposed to accept our banker and billionaire occupation.
It’s only called class warfare when we fight back.
I agree. Thanks for your insight. I think it matters little how the Republicans frame this bc too many citizens will “buy” the propoganda anyway.
As soon as I saw that Zer0 was proposing the “Buffet tax,” I knew the MSM would cry foul and shriek about “Class Warfare” on the poor iddle widdle itchy-richy folks… you know those poor poor benighted gazillionaires. Oh how they *suffer*!!!!!
Unfortunately too many citizens line up to drink that Kool Aid.
Tell me you think Putin can’t collect from his 1%ers, it’s an attitude thing
heh – bingo. That’s it.
alan1tx is the great defender of failed policies.
We’re to believe that tax dodgers should be coddled because if we don’t they’ll commit even more crime. Sounds like a principled position to me.
I hate to sound like a broken record but there is only 1 party and the sooner we ignore this paradigm the sooner we can get something accomplished. Just do a Wiki search on Neo-Liberal it will become crystal clear. /rant off
Putin put the real screws on his 1%ers until they cried like little grrrls… no big fan of Putin & his KGB methods, but it does appear that Putin did have *some* concept of making sure there was a little more fairness in the system.
Here? Not so much… too many pols bought off & are all part of the corrupt system.
This is NOT the first time Obama has said the right things. We voted for him because he said the right things. The question is, why, after living through Obama’s first three years in office, would anyone give more credence to what Obama says than to what he does? And, why would anyone report Obama’s latest campaign rhetoric as anything more than what it is – campaign rhetoric? I don’t care how bad the Republicans are, Obama is the WORST Democratic President in history and he’s done this at the worst possible time. The 2012 election will be a referendum on what Obama has done in his first term. Shame on him.
They can do it without violating the tax laws. By the way, the non-rich can and do do it too.
Working Class Example: Anyone can save for retirement by putting some savings in the bank at (currently) 1% interest. Then the government wants to tax that tiny little profit to make it smaller. But if you can get into a 401k, you don’t pay tax on the money you put in, and it grows tax free.
The Rich Class thinks the same way, why invest in stocks that can be used to grow the economy if it’s all going to get taxed away. They’ll sift capitol to tax free investments so they don’t get hurt, but what it hurts is the economy.
“obama’s deficit plan is a plan for re-election.” Ya think.
Whenever I see this phony I think of Dorian Grey.
I put the majority of the blame on the MSM. People who are working to feed their families with 3 or 4 jobs prolly don’t feel like searching for the truth and turn on the nightly news and believe what they are told. I am lucky in a perverted kind of way I get to read FDL everyday to get my news being on disability and not able to work anymore.
Yes, I know.
That kind of thinking began a long time ago, but in my lifetime, it really was big-time propoganda around Nixon being busted for his crimes. I can well remember the shrieks & moans & whining of Republicans everywhere: “It’s not faaaaaiiirrr. Nixon just got caught. They ALL do it.”
Well, maybe the do “all do it,” but so what? Then we just let Nixon off the hook? Sadly, the answer to that question was/is: Yes. And look where it’s gotten us today!! Obama: “We only look forward, not backward if you’re a THIEF, CROOK & CRIMINAL who’s rich. If you’re a crook & you’re poor: go directly to jail.”
Osterity didn’t do this all by himself. We have Democrats in both the House and the Senate who are true believers in neoliberalism. Their selling out is just as egregious as Osterity’s. A neoliberal corporate whore is a neoliberal corporate whore regardless of which party s/he affiliates with.
Never use a preposition to end a sentence with.
You know something? As a progressive, I used to be mad. I was really upset about the continuing occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I didn’t like the way that the Bush Administration and the fat cats on Wall Street were able to get away with their crimes. I thought it was bad that the President raised $700,000,000.00 for his previous campaign, and that he was planning on raising a full billion dollars this time around. I didn’t like it when he cancelled clean air standards, and I also thought he should have been more forceful in dealing with the foreclosure crisis, and I really didn’t like it when he took single-payer off the table, and worked to undermine the public option behind closed doors…. But you know what? With the announcement this morning that he is now calling on the Republican Congress to enact a tax on millionaires — I have already forgotten about all of the above, and I can’t wait to support him again in 2012!
BTW, Alan: whether you’re rich or poor, you DO pay taxes on your 401(K) money when you start withdrawing it. But I guess you knew that – eh?
BTW, Alan, Part 2: there’s nothing criminal or crooked about putting your earnings (up to a certain amount annually) in a 401(K) plan. But what a lot of rich folks do, in terms of tax-avoidance, DOES often break the law… not that such folks usually get busted. Just fyi…
*snort* What a crock.
Obama’s bosses know his bark is without bite.
He’s saving those comfortable shoes for something post-Presidential.
Seen today’s Chris Hedges piece on Obama and Wright?
tax dodgers is different than following the tax code.
If the tax laws let you write off home interest, that’s following the code, not tax dodging.
Didn’t he say he was going to let the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010?
Quite agree with you on that one. I’m, frankly, disgusted with the entire so-called “Democratic” party, which sold out completely in Jan 2009, when the SCOTUS passed the law that corporations
could buy off politicians and write their own laws with unfettered greedy impunityare to be considered “people.”Boy that statement is a measure of the man
In my eyes, Osterity is nothing more than one of the trawls. I refuse to let myself be distracted by them.
The class war is over the wealthy have won. No political party represents anyone but the millionaires and billionaires. We have the best government money can buy. Sad to say.
Why? Because they are part of our society and have an obligation from all of the benefits incurred as a result of being part of that society. It was recognized long ago that taxes could keep any one person from becoming so wealthy in this country that they could “rule”. Thanks to all of the tax loopholes, low income tax rates, and low estate taxes for the wealthiest Americans, some are making so much money, they can “rule” America. Is that the type of country we want?
What ever happened to the mantra “you have to spend money to make money”? Is that no longer in vogue?
“best government money can buy”
Agree in principle. They are bought, certainly. But they are a shitty government, too.
So you are saying the rich will buy not just more, but more expensive houses?
Too much? Really? Because you say so? People should only pay the taxes they will actually accept, is that right? These people you are so concerned about already shield their income or haven’t you been paying attention?
You are 100% correct. Hopefully you’ll pay taxes at a lower rate when you’re retired and have less income.
Breaking the law is breaking the law and they should be punished. Ken Lay on down. (BTW, a lot of law breaking is condoned around here, as long as you’re not rich). My comment was about people legally invested in the stock market that will decide to pull out if the tax advantage goes upside down. Be careful what you wish for, you could make it worse.
The electorate did what?
They voted for Gore in 2000, but Florida was used to steal it away. They voted for Kerry in 2004, but Ohio was used to steal it away.
It is the “best govt” for the monied class. They don’t have to pay for hardly anything, but they get the benefit of a lot of services in this country for pennies on the dollar. Plus they get to write their own legislation that benefits themselves and their businesses. And so on.
This govt is only shitty for the peons. It’s f*cking fantastic for the mega-wealthy. They couldn’t be happier, frankly.
Hear that sucking sound? It’s the sound of unemployment sucking the life from Obama’s re-election chances.
And it’s only going to get better for them. They are in the driver’s seat, and the rest of us are the ones being taken for a ride.
Please provide some examples – with verifiable links – for your spurious and unattributed assertion.
He talks too much. He’s lost the audience.
I have to agree with you, albeit, that said, I do think both elections were somewhat “close.”
But Diebold & Katherine Harris were the Bush Crime Syndicate’s BFF (after Osama bin Laden, of course).
Gingrich and the 90s Republicans used it very effectively to stave off re-balancing the agenda.
lot of hot air signifying BUPKISS.
It should have never been that close and that’s why they stole it. If the American electorate were up on the issues it would have been a landslide in both elections and the possibility of the election being stolen would have been diminished. But I think your missing my main point.
I agree with this. Times are a lot “riper” than what some of the other responders to this comment have cynically noted (cynicism being extremely excusable in these times, tho!)
There’s a lot of try tinder out there.
As Taibbi pointed out, the Democrats don’t have an actual constituency.
As cynical as I am (I’m not sure if any being could BE more cynical than me), I would love to think you’re correct. Time will tell…
Yes they do. The so-called “Democratic” constituency is the same as that of the putative “Republicans.” That is: the Oligarchs and/or the MIC. Both so-called “parties” serve the same MOTU. Neither could give a sh*t about anyone other than the upper 2%.
At least he had a portrait in the “attic”. Obama’s attic is a complete void.
So, just to lighten up for a moment, where do you reckon he’s stashed the portrait? I’m betting somewhere behind the walls of Jarrett’s home.
To quote Yogi Berra, “It ain’t over ’til it’s over” and it’s only over for those who have quit fighting. Class warfare between the rich and poor is far from over.
Class warrior or quitter, which are you?
Just pushin’ the meme, baby, pushin’ the meme.
;)
I took bigmike as facetious.
:))
The truth, the class war is far from over. In fine form you are this evening, SD.
;~DW
In addition to that, not only does the middle class no longer have a party that represent their interests, in a two-party system, it has no alternative in the voting booth. An all out nationwide socio-economic revolution may result when enough people get fed up. Oh, how ’bout that. That’s the title of Perry’s book. Talk about your irony.
You know the elections were stolen but still repeat the lie that the American electorate elected shrub? Jiminy crickets, have some self respect. And please don’t repeat the scandalous lie that the he was elected or there should have been enough votes to cover the redshift of our ballots.
I’m a WARRIOR!!!!!! I am going to my precinct meetings and I’m gonna get involved. Boy scout’s honor. “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore.”
Thanks for the Hedges link. The first sentence is a powerful kick in the teeth – I effing love it.
By evading, and actively avoiding, the question about the horrendous costs of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the decimation of our economy neither political party is deserving of respect in the current deficit-budget discussions. Our warfare state is bankrupting us!
I feel bullied into silence.
Review the sidebar topics. You can conclude the laws are wrong, but they are being broken, and it’s being condoned. The fact that hundreds of people are arrested and some go to jail would add attribution to my assertion.
Oh, Pumpkinhead Boehner, pitting one group of Americans againsy another group of Americans is exactly what YOUR party, with the help of the democrats and this president have done.
“A rising tide lifts all boats”???? That only applies if you HAVE a boat.
Isn’t it about time for us to enshrine the phrase “progressive Democrat” in the pantheon of oxymorons wherein dwells the paradox of “military intelligence”?
Rainbow Warrior
I’m pretty sure many of those who have abandoned truth telling are potentially far more cynical than you possibly could be. Hard for me to explain what I mean though, but I catch a glimpse of what I mean from time to time. I think Obama takes cynicism to wholly another level.
Exactly, could not agree more.
You’re right. But look a well the MIC is doing, Hallibiurton, Boeing, Exxon-Mobil, GE, Raytheon, I could go on…..
The problem is, when you ask people with high inocomes to pay too much, they put their money elsewhere to shield their incomes from taxes.
Umm, no. The Repugs just say they do that. You’ve been listening to Rush again, haven’t you. Actually, they don’t. Not in the 50s and not now, they stay and have their accountants and attorneys lower the bills to about 35%.
The “the job creators” are gonna go to China or Bangladesh is utterly bs on two accounts.
1) They do not create jobs, that would be too much like work. They create financial instruments and up usury to above 20% levels. That way they can sit at the track and sip cognac and make more in two hours than you’ll make in a career.
2) They’ve already exported most of the jobs outta here already. But they won’t export themselves. They are just too addicted to the game to understand how they are cutting their own throats. All that social and infrastructure that makes for a good place to live at a rather modest expense? That goes up by a whole lot when you have to pay for your own security army and its training, build your own roads and educate your own children.
onit: You are “ON IT” today.
From last week…..where’s my pitchfork?
We may have lost the most recent round of class war but maybe a World “class war” is on the way that we can refuse to lose this time.
Again my point was not to dredge up the 2000 and 2004 elections. My point is the electorate has a short memory and the Republicans are very good at confusing them and getting them to vote against their own interests. Respectfully submitted. ;)
You’re talking about people who have been arrested for committing the heinous crime of Civil Disobedience. Nice stretch.
The nation is rich, it’s just where all the money is stopped up, that’s what is killing us. If we can’t get it flowing, we may as well be bankrupt.
Expect nonsense to be challenged. You’ll feel less bullied when you can back up your assertions. It may help to think of challenges to things said as challenges to the idea even though it may feel very personal, may even be quite personal.
Like Bruce Cockburn sang, “you got to kick at the darkness ’til it bleeds daylight”.
So Dr Martin Luther King is a comman criminal ?
Lovers in a Dangerous Time
Don’t think I’ve been arrested as many times as Dr Rev King but neither of us can be considered common. *g*
Why is it that we never hear the words “great” and “Obama” in a sentence other than one that also includes the word “speech”?
William Black: Why Nobody went to Jail During the Credit Crisis
Yet you will have people on this site who hate Obama so much that they will vote for the GOP thinking that with the GOP in control we can finally dismantle the whole rotten edifice, and we can start all over again in a new nirvana. The lesser of two evils is the best we can do. Time is too short for too many people in this country. We can’r start over.
Bless you dude, they say that’s how you learn how the country really is.
The “two-party” meme is as outmoded as the “right-left” divide, carguy, there is but one party, a neoliberal party with two “ends” but the same intent … and if the people are divided … it is to the benefit of the few.
Beyond the neoliberal fascism there are those who understand and those who do not, as yet, understand … a few never will.
DW
It is exactly your comment, whether they proclaim themselves part of the Democratic or Republican parties that the wealthy elite and political donor class love to see. Maintain the “status quo” for them and they continue to be the primary beneficiaries of our current system. 90% of the population only has “worth” as “consumers”.
The “lesser of two evils” is NOT the best we can do. There are other systems such as proportional voting, etc. that we can try.
The Drum Major Instinct
Hedges is spot on.
The Fascists vs the World.
Nearly all my contacts with the electorate show the opposite. They have great memories.
I think the narrative that the public has a poor memory is an oversimplification to extreme for the seesaw with R’s and D’s taking turns at failed foreign and domestic policies.
It’s a shallow idea for a mythical electorate. If we’re especially selective we can find people who have next to no political memory whatsoever but I find the truth about the electorate much more deep and nuanced. That doesn’t mean they can’t be manipulated though. I met a unicorn yesterday, a sane tea partier, but it isn’t my first encounter and I am still processing.
I’d add that R’s and D’s BOTH “are very good at confusing them and getting them to vote against their own interests.” The Dems don’t represent our interests. If so, then which interests? The best argument against that may be Pelosi getting a number of good things we needed passed but I’d argue she knew the Dems could pass anything but the Dem backers would be protected by a purposefully sabotaged Senate, sabotaged not just by R’s and a couple D’s, but nearly all D’s who knew going in what kind of obstructionists R’s were. The D’s were just a different type of obstructionist, the masked kind.
One of the sad things I hear because I propagated the idea myself was the idea that average American Republicans were voting against their own interests. It even made me feel a lil superior though I did my best to suppress that kind of thinking. When I realized after getting seats at the table that Dems also had no worries about screwing over the rest of us, I knew, I had been had. I’m still a lil ashamed that I thought I could change things from within. More power to those who are succeeding but I am unsure that is a struggle in which I can any longer participate.
Gee whiz, Alan, I asked for attribution, and you feel “bullied”?? Hiding behind the ruse of victimization is not particularly clever, nor does it show you in your best light. We’ve had better “conversations” in the past, but your logic is particularly flawed today.
If you’re referring to citizens being busted for exercising their civil rights, then you’re really letting your conservative flag fly.
Funny how it’s leftwingers who get busted when they protest such things as the torture & abuse of Pfc Bradley Manning, or the illegal Tar Sands project, or protesting union busting in WI and elsewhere. Somehow those actions are all viewed as law-breaking, clearly by you and by the PTB, and not as “freedom of speech & expression.”
Yet when Tea Partiers go to Town Halls and shriek & scream and disrupt the Town Hall meeting… why, what do you know? That’s just “freedom of speech and expression,” and only the leftwingers who protest this get busted and removed from the hall. Ever notice that double-standard, Alan?
Oh, whoops, are my facts “bullying” you?
Arrrrr…..ye speaketh the truth me hearty…………..Tis best we have them all walk the plank and chceck into Davy Jones Lockerrr.
(It’s “National Speak Like a Pirate Day”.)
Really, it is. Look it up.
Eh? Alan does this a lot. I’ve had some decent conversations with him here, and he’s well-entitled to his viewpoints. Some of his contributions are very valuable. But he has a bad habit of hurling out unattributed accusations on a regular basis, and he’s had his feet held to the fire about this before. That’s why, when he says he feels “bullied into silence,” I don’t buy it. It’s an easy way out. No one “bullied” him; he was called on his stuff. It’s happened to me before, and that’s the way it goes. Don’t play if you cannot pay….
Did you know the lyric, or look it up?
I needs me spyglass to shiver me timbers, but methinks you’re right, avast, matey! arr arr arr sqwawk!!!! (last bit from parrot on shoulder)…
One of the reasons it’s important to provide links to primary source material when engaging.
Looked it up.
*g*
check him out
O is making noise about taxing the rich to cover his plan to cut medicare and social security. the appeal goes like this: it isn’t fair to cut medicare & social security unless we also increase taxes for rich people.
but that ain’t fair, as has been observed before at this site. When you plunge people into poverty and cut off their health care access, it doesn’t become ‘fair’ because a rich guy can’t buy a second Maybach this year.
Anyway, O will simply bargain away the high income tax increase and keep the cuts for everybody else. But he’ll try to sound high minded while he’s doing it.
Parrot was a nice touch. Wish I’d though of that.
I did duct tape a wooden ruler to my leg and hobbled around the office though.
Yes. Something like that. We said something similar when Buffet begans squawking this time around about higher taxes on gazillionaires. It sounded “good” in theory, but who trusts Buffet?? I sure don’t. Buffet ain’t noble. It’s just some role Buffet is playing in the Kabuki Show, and my immediate reaction is: bring on the KY jelly quick bc I’m gonna get screwed….
I’m familiar with Bruce and like his music. That song’s about 27 years old and we don’t hear much from Bruce nowadays.
omg that is a creepy video! I have most of his albums but have never looked at that. How unlike Bruce. I am really puzzled. Really puzzled.
Don’t let that video put you off. He is a great musician, writer, poet, activist.
Or maybe they just declared their independence from this two dimensional farce.
The GOP are already in control and they didn’t even need to control more than one House. When Dems should have been indisputably in control, in O’s first two years, mother of all ironies, wait for it… the GOP was still in charge.
Would you support Obama’s policies if they came from an official Republican President?
What distinguishes Obama though are his speeches when he is in campaign mode and even those take very little effort to tease out that it is same Obama, different day.
Starting from scratch is an especially powerful idea that Obama used to keep single payer and public option off the table so I am unsure if you are for real. I think it was sarcasm that made you dance on the landmines, almost fooled me. :)
Buffet’s $5B investment in BofA should tell everybody where Warren’s interests lie.
The ruler is a nice touch, I must admit. I have one those fake hooks to put over my hand… arrr arrr, plus a fake parrot from shoulder… arrr arrr arrr
Gotta run… toodle pip, pups! arf arf
“O is making noise about taxing the rich…”
—————–
This is making headlines all over the place. Who the hell does he think is gonna support this? The GOP has already pleadged not to raise taxes until…..well, FOREVER. This guy is pissin’ against the wind.
Aye, matey, keelhaul the slimy scum, now … at ‘em, all hands – all hands!!!
May a fair wind fill yer sails, carguy.
;~DW
Si, Senor Dragoon (keeping with theme of Pirate Day ‘n all)… quite agree.
Ok guys, I have used and seen used the ‘f’ word. Are we really there, or are we using hyperbole?
And yours too, matey.
I’m headin’ home to the wench and a bottle o’ rum.
Silver, wud ye be, then, Long John?
A spot of rum and a fine do, ’twill be.
DW
There are a few of us who ain’t askeered o’ usin’ the term Fascist. Norske’s been hammerin’ at it since I’ve been at the Lake. Told my boss one day a few years ago he was a fuckin’ fascist. Thought he was gonna have a stroke. Truth hurts, I guess.
The “optics” are everything with Obama.
The last line from the suskind piece:
No meat, all broth, but it’s thick so maybe we won’t notice…
“Oh, better far to live and die
Under the brave black flag I fly,
Than play a sanctimonious part,
With a pirate head and a pirate heart:.
G&S
my contribution to talk, or sing, like a pirate day!
And a wee note of the taxes he’s na paid fer a whale’s tale of time, despite his spoutin’ … right ye are, Cap’n Dragon, sorr.
;~DW
I learned on an encounter with our county’s Republican chair person that bullies don’t expect anyone to actually push back. Learned the same lesson many times since. I respect the right of people not to be bullied but they don’t get to call just anything bullying either.
If the repubs hate it this much, that’s the 1st good sign. Nothing will come of it, of course, but at least he is pissing them off royally. He is maddeningly vague about the hikes to medicare that are propsed for 2017. I really belive the best thing this super committee can do is absolutely nothing. Any thing else will be a disaster for the people.
Obama talking about “tax the rich!” is nothing but desperate campaign rhetoric. Nothing like this is going to pass the House, and he knows it. The chance for any real reform legislation disappeared in the mid-terms.
The only question left is this: Will the republicans opt for total preznintial humiliation this early? Or, will they be concerned enough about creating a “sympathetic voter” bloc for Obama, that they will choose the toothless “bi-partisanship agreement” route for now, and then stick EVERYTHING up Obama’s bunghole in the middle of the campaign, when it’s almost certain that voters will be so desperate and so angry that they will buy nothing that Obama’s selling, nor will they cut him any political slack because of anything that the republicans are doing or not doing.
Fixed it for ya.
Thin-blooded cowards willna speak ta truth, but a bonny soul does nae shrivel to spake the honest way, as well ye be knowin’, Cap’n Dragon.
Them’s a bloody cowerin’ lot tha’ leave a beast of terror stamp aboot with nae word of disgust nor disdain …
Fascist they are and fascist they be.
Ever long has spoken Norske such bare and honest truth.
DW
I guess I wasn’t specific enough, When I am talking about “their” electorate I was referring to the Republican Right. I hope we can agree that they have been manipulated to vote against their own interest. I agree wholeheartedly that the Democrats are no different.
*smiles in appreciation of your mastery of this arcane speech*
After Messers from Citibank- Bob Rubin and Jeffery Sachs,et.al, emptied the wealth from Russian when the drunk Yeltsin opened the doors to the vault, Putin implemented a flat tax with a 10% on workers over a certain wages and 15% on businesses. If they got involved in Politics it was war, but as long as the Oligarchs kept the money in the country as useful capital he’d them keep their ill gotten gains. They rebounded.
“proportional voting”? Please explain. If it involves pols having to vote on anything that is going to effect their interests, it ain’t happenin. If I had my way I’d get rid of the whole Electoral College system.
Even if he had pushed for single payer, which I’m for, the Blue Dog Dems wouldn’t have gone along, no matter the persuasive powers of Pelosi.
You can thank one man – McConnell – for stopping anything that would be considered progressive legislation being passed in Obama’s first two years. The Senate system really sucks.
wrong. They passed the Health insurance bail out bill with 51 votes through Reconciliation. Pelosi could have put it in at the end. That is who you can blame, along with Obama and Rahm Emanuel, I suppose.
They screwed us all but smart people were watching.
Just when I thought had gone progressive on me – albeit just for the election – out from the White House comes word that Obama is still into lower tax rates for the rich than under the Clinton rates – or under the Bush rates – provided he can claim a victory on closing tax loopholes.
He just won’t let go of his love of the rich, even on a day set aside to pander to the left.
Obama told Reid to pull the public option amendment that going to be offered to the reconciliation bill, despite it have 51 commitments, so as to preserve his deal with the insurance companies – this is well reported so your goggle should find it.
Obama killed single payer – and Obama killed the public option – and the Dem Congressional leadership is guilty of following Obama’s orders.
Well, Dragon, after I posted that, I thought about pulling that hanging curve ball :o) but then, I was looking at a hangnail, and first things first. :o)
For a change, I’d have to agree with you, at least on that. Only most of us didn’t know it, at the time.
I appreciate Dave pointing out that Obama, speechifying as FDR, is hoping to drag the voters into some alternate universe, where the reality is that we will believe that he’s by-god-decided, to be a good progressive.
This, in lieu of the reality that the republicans hold all the cards, and won’t mind a bit if their little poodle climbs out of the puddle of “bipartisan” piss in which he’s been wallowing, and begins to make little mock-fight sounds. They don’t want him becoming a sympathy figure. The charade of his now “running” again, as a progressive is a level of bullshit that I don’t think the voters will buy. Not with everything pointing to the resurgence of the republican worldview which, after all, was primarily engineered by Obama.
It will also serve as something veal-pen dwellers can latch on to with a sigh of relief. They can point to this campaign garbage rhetoric and say, “See, he finally wised up and is showing his progressive colors, which I knew/hoped he had all along simply laid aside in a gambit to appear as the only adult in the room.” This rhetoric–and that’s all it is, rhetoric, at this stage–is a strategy meant to do one thing, and one thing only: shore up his support with the “base” of the Democratic party. As soon as the opportunity arises he will go for the SS, Medicare, and other cuts he’s been after for two years.