The “Buffett rule,” the principle that a millionaire should never pay a lower rate of tax than his or her secretary or anyone else working in the middle class, has excited many on the left. There is a legitimate issue of effective middle class tax rates being higher than a non-trivial segment of the millionaire class. Russ Feingold plans to press the Super Committee from his outside perch at Progressives United on the Buffett rule. “I just want to say how pleased I am that the President is taking a strong stand with this Buffett rule,” Feingold said. And millionaire Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban summed up the many rebuttals and cries of “class warfare” on the right by saying that having a million dollars and wondering if you might have to pay a higher rate of tax is a great problem to have.
There’s only one thing: just what is the Buffett rule? I looked at this conundrum yesterday, and so did Kevin Drum. He concluded that it was an amalgam of strategies that would arrive at more of a “Buffett ideal,” than something like the alternative minimum tax, which would be a “Buffett rule.” And without changes to the capital gains tax rate, which is not mentioned in the actual proposal from the White House, such an ideal would be a pretty weak nudge. Changing the carried interest loophole is nice, but it doesn’t touch people who just collect from capital gains rather than those who manage money.
Gene Sperling tried to clear this up yesterday with a blog post at the White House website. He’s batting down largely conservative complaints about the rule, but he reveals a few things:
Claim: This rule would raise taxes while the economy is weak.
Fact: The President’s plan does not raise anyone’s taxes in 2011 or 2012. The President believes that the most well-off Americans should contribute to deficit reduction by paying more, but under the President’s plan, all measures to raise additional revenue — including fundamental tax reform — are effective starting in 2013 [...]
Claim: This is a new tax rate on millionaires.
Fact: This is not a new tax rate on millionaires; instead the rule should be incorporated as part of fundamental tax reform that lowers overall rates. Currently, the highest-income Americans pay far less than the top marginal tax rate. Therefore, reform that meets the Buffett Rule should focus on limiting the degree to which the most well-off can take advantage of tax expenditures and preferences.
Claim: This is a broad-based tax on investors.
Fact: Not at all. The vast majority of investors in the U.S. will be unaffected by this rule. This rule applies to only three out of every 1,000 Americans. And, as noted, it would actually affect even less than that since some of these wealthy Americans already pay near the top marginal rate. Currently, for example, there is a preferential rate for capital income which many people making over $1 million take advantage of on a portion of their income without violating the Buffett Rule.
First of all, this wouldn’t hit until 2013, just as a reminder. Second, Sperling writes that there would be no new tax rate on millionaires, and that overall tax rates would be LOWER under the type of tax reform the White House would like to see. This means that the Buffett rule would just nudge toward a higher effective tax rate for millionaires by eliminating or capping deductions.
So basically, several things that the White House supports – closing the carried interest loophole, allowing the high-end Bush tax cuts to expire, capping itemized deductions for individuals over $250,000 at 28% and killing some other loopholes used by the rich, would come together to make up the Buffett “rule.” And this comes close to being explicit on capital gains, by saying that “the vast majority of investors in the U.S. will be unaffected by this rule.” If capital gains tax rates were going up, all investors who sold a security at a profit would be affected.
So I’d have to agree with The Economist that this policy is trivial, even if you agree (as I do) with the component parts. “Our economy is riddled with a multitude of deeply-embedded structural flaws that allow the well-connected to enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of us, but nobody will do anything about it.” And yes, that was on the website of The Economist.




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Yes.
One tine (paragraph 2) of a multi-prong approach that I think will really shake the tree of corruption.
Making millionaires pay more tax is like rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic. It is not only politically infeasibe, it solves none of our fundamental problems — even our unequal income distribution.
It is a siren meant to distract us from what is really rotten about the system.
I got an e-mail today from the Obama campaign saying that the Buffett Rule should make me proud of Obama and the great job he is doing.
So I guess it doesn’t take a lot to make some people proud.
I’m offended and feel rebuffed. I didn’t get that email. /s
Pride goeth before the fall…or in this case, during it.
” … a lot …”?
T’ain’t “anything”…. why, it is not even empty rhetoric … as it is designed to deceive.
From the very same folks as brought us, “Whocoulddamgine?”
Rather amazed, I am, that you are still in their “good” graces, masaccio.
;~DW
The “pride” of the lyin’, EDP.
And jackals and hyenas … ‘course that’s unfair to the jackals and the hyenas … and pond scum kind of just lies there … being unfair, now, to blue-green algae … don’t even wish to malign cockroaches …
I’m gonna go with … sui generous “filth” … invective disfunction, I know, but, simple words fail … a Bronx cheer, perhaps?
DW
say david, has anyone looked into the feasability with today’s technology of a proportional tax? which takes into consideration the regressive nature of most taxes and should eliminate that problem of a tax code
not a flat tax which is of course regressive but a tax that increases and decreases exactly proportional with income
this type of tax would be hard to argue against from the right wing
If lofty rhetoric is all it takes to make Feingold feel good, I’m really glad he’s away from having any votes on anything.
Thanks for supporting a full Senate vote for Roberts, Russ, smart move. I hope money allowed by Citizens United had something to do with your defeat.
would like to ask you something econobuzz;
I was having a discussion with a friend and I told him I thought that there really isn’t any capitol accept for food, property and labor.
a monetary system is simply confidence
gold is an illusion, it serves no real purpose
what’s left if an economy really fails is labor and who controls it, property and food.
would like to know yours and ecahnomics take on that statement, which evolved as we spoke and I am left to analyse after the conversation
hi ecahn!
can you see my 10 and correct or add to it for me please
would appreciate
Not sure where you’re going with this. For the most part food is perishable, property is a government granted right, and labor is either a mutual contract or a master/slave relationship.
In your failed economy scenario is there still law and order? Otherwise food, property and labor are prety easily lost.
Human beings … food and shelter.
Seems about the “size” of the world, perris.
Although there are those, apprently who claim Money is all that matters.
We have a world, we have people, real human beings, not “corporations” … and we have “resources” … all “wealth” comes from what people do with those resources … which “process” is “termed” … “economic activity”, perhaps, it were better, and more honest, to simply call it human activity?
DW
thanks, agree with yuor points, however food would be capitol even though it is pershable, most money is perishable alan,
most people would do anything to feed their family, so while it does perish you could still buy and trade with it before it’s not food anymore
property is government granted, just like a monetary system though so that’s a wash
labor would be the other capitol, you could buy things with work
I don’t know if there would be law and order in a failed economy, probably not on a government level but I think there would be local law and order, might makes right and all that
Capital.
Using labour, food or land in exchange for other goods is bartering and capital doesn’t enter into the picture.
uggg..thanx for the correction, I guess I’ve expanded the use of the word
barter products are still the tool for trade and that’s what I think most people are talking about when they use the term capital
for instance, “political capital” is pretty much the same thing as barter too
D-Day’s post is a pragmatic political one, and so properly focused on the tweaks of a given system, and your question is of a nature that accepts this backdrop as a reality, which it is…
But alan1tx’s comment, and your subsequent riposte, is nudging along to a place outside of this box. I’m wondering how far may one go here, in this thread? Would some noodling on the more fundamental aspects of the system be appropriate here? I’m reticent about disrespecting with what might be seen as radical bomb-tossing.
I particularly liked the distinction between Ricardo’s and Marx’s definition of capital in the definition piece. One of Marx’s harshest critiques of Ricardo’s theories is his glossing over of the term “surplus value.” Ricardo seems to have struggled with how surplus value, or profit, was created.
OK, that was succinct. Never mind.
Capital is wealth. In the “political capital” sense it’s what politicians have accumulated by their actions, loosely associating the term with “surplus value.”
Can’t we just change it to “Buffet’s Corrollary”????
I like the “progressive decreasing tax”. The tax structure we have ain’t so bad if you get rid of the loopholes and find a way to keep people from hiding their assets offshore. Also, (per Romney) if corporations are people, let ‘em pay like the rest of us do. Punish them if they don’t, if they hide assets or ship off jobs overseas.
True :-).
As the old joke goes “The Bible says the meek shall inherit the earth, but so what, they’re meek, we’ll just take it back.”
One more thought on property. You only own it as long as law and order are maintained. Buy, sell and trade of property is only possible if contracts are upheld by law. In that case I don’t see where more property would be better than less, unless one were going to exploit the resources (i.e. farm, hunt, harvest, mine, etc.) So without law and order, the only property of any value in my opinion would be a “defendable position.”
In medieval Poland (according to Michener) the Peasants would sometimes get a piece of animal fat once a year from the Magnates
for Christmas dinner and I’m sure the Magnate would send out an e-mail to all touting that fact so we could all be proud of him.
Please, have at it, Petro, ideas are not threats, and only a “danger” to those who are wedded to the present, clearly failed and failing “system”.
DW
Consistency is the hobgoblin of a simple mind
Actually, MY boss does that now. Well, sorta. We all get a 12 lb smoked turkey for Thanksgiving and a six pack of Chinese pears for Christmas bonus along with a copy of the family newsletter telling us how well the “ruling family” is doing and showing us pictures from their trip to Tahiti.
Damn, that’s really deep. You musta been a political science major with a minor in philosophy.
Especially if it is a foolish (and dare we say, self-serving?) “consistency”, BSbb.
DW
Thanks – actually I was only concerned with drifting too off-topic in a particular thread, out of respect for D-Day and the rest of the folks here, but your kind comment is appreciated.
As Southern Dragon noted, perris’ triad – food, property, labor – are tools towards the generation/accumulation of capital, point already well-made and accepted, no need to go there.
I wanted to chafe at the equivalence of these three, however. alan1tx disposed of one tine, with his observation that property is enforcement which, in my mind, is the same as “property is theft.” Hence, property in the service of wealth accumulation is illegitimate.
I have an even more serious problem with the reflexive commodification of food. Food in the service of wealth creation can only accomplished by at the very least a marginal “holding back” of this human right – the right to eat. Illegitimate.
This leaves labor. The only one of the three that is actually naturally “owned” by its holder. Providing it, or withholding it, violates no moral code that I can imagine, so it is the only tool of wealth accumulation (if one is into that sort of thing) that I can possibly countenance.
Thanks again.
You jest?
(I confess, a major in psychology with minors in history, economics, and Constitutional Law … I did have a wee vestige of mind in those long ago days, carguy … or so i’d like to so imagine.)
;~DW
No, I’m serious as a heart attack. I’m a fan. You do the serious stuff and I do the “comic relief. Didn’t you get the memo???
Well, I hold that resources are “owned”, in common, the “commonwealth”, by all of us, even those as yet, unborn, the whole “seven generation” perspective, Petro, and as I said earlier … “wealth” ONLY arises from “what” human beings do with the resources avaible to them …
This is old-tyme economics, as I learned on my father’s knee … he was an economist who was appalled at the notion that “Greed is Good”, holding, as he did, the conviction that ethical “business practice” is as important to civil society as the Rule of Law.
Thank you, Petro, for your thoughts … of which many, I hope, you shall share.
DW
So now even our pears and “made in China”?
No, I did not get the missive,in question, carguy … seeing as you do both with most superb aplomb.
;~DW
My boss is Chinese.
That Petro is pretty smart too. I agree. Hope he/she stays around.
Sorry Petro: Your photo answers my question.
..
..
I hope?
LOL.
In Mark Twain’s autobiography he asserts that the end of America began with the glorification of Jay Gould anf his wealth. The first person in Twain’s mind to make a fortune unethically and be celebrated for it rather than shunned.
Loved that book! (Got the first volume in hard-copy as a gift.) I really should get around to the rest of it, which I understand is online…
Your Boss is an A hole who happens to have been born in China but I am very glad to hear he and his family had a good time in Tahiti
I got it as a gift, as well, Petro … online it is?
Thank you for that information.
DW
Actually, most of the Chinese I work with here are very nice and really smart. My boss, SHE is elderely and Taiwanese and I am told that’s just the way people of that generation are. Employees are a “necessary evil” and they should be thankful they have a job at all.
Amended – now that I went to look. The first is up, the other two are forthcoming (probably as the they are published for hard-copy purchase):
http://www.marktwainproject.org/
A diary of your experience and considerations would be most educational, carguy, as well as contributing to understanding, generally.
And not merely of your work experience of of your life.
I’m encouraging an ongoing “people’s history”, here at FDL, as I think it might well serve as a “blueprint” for a better world.
Please consider.
I enjoy your “style” very much and good well stand a larger “dose”.
;~DW
I await, Petro …
Twain is one of my favorite influneces.
Lived in Harford, Conn. for a time, right next to his home.
Been a reading-fan since I was seven years old, longer actually, having first been read the story of Tom Sawyer when I was five …
(Used to get in trouble in grade school for reading Twain … under the desk … of course we were told we’d be safe if we crawled under the desk in the event of a nuclear attack … which is when I began to have serious doubts about the wisdom of “authority” …)
;~DW
Really? Not that’s interesting. I assume it wasn’t precisely because you were under the desk at the time? ;)
I once got sent to the office after getting “caught” reading an article in Highlight’s where there were no pictures on the page. They thought I was posturing or something. I had to read it aloud to the principal.
Adults can be very puzzling.
(Edit: I was in the first grade.)
Actually I wasn’t under the desk, Petro … the book was, balanced on my skinny knees … the textbook was open ON the desk … and already read.
(This was second grade …)
As an a-DULT, I’m certain that some children, including my own, find me, at times, to be very puzzling, indeed … other a-DULTS, do, of a certainty.
DW
:)
This thinker, interviewed by Amy Goodman on Monday, condemned preznit’s fake populist proposals:
You are too kind. I will try to educate AND entertain between my electro-shock therapy sessions.
Being in the sixth grade during the Cuban Missile Crisis, in Houston, we spent several “drills” under the desk for real in the “duck and cover” mode. We were told that Houston was a target for Russian missiles as we were the center for the petro-chemical industry and Ellington AFB which was a SAC base. We were told we would only have 30 minutes notice if a misile was fired to get home. We were also told that IF Ellington was ground zero, our neighborhood would survive the initial blast. BUT, if downtown Houston was the taqrget, our neighborhood would be wiped out.
ON SAC drills, called “Operaqtional ReEadiness Inspections” ORI, B-52′s and B-58′s would fly over our school. You could identify each by their unique con-trails. Some of our neighbors built bomb shelters. Perhaps more later.
Ah, those were the days. Although, in my New Jersey school, we didn’t get such awesome “props” flying overhead to add to the theatre of anxiety. Ye gods!