The Senate’s 5% millionaire’s tax to pay for the American Jobs Act is really a tax on rich people displacing a tax on other rich people. For example, the cancellation of fossil fuel subsidies, which was in Obama’s version of the bill, will go away, because a few oil-state Democrats don’t like them. The cap on itemized deductions goes away, too, as it did in 2009 when Charlie Rangel dismissed it out of hand as a pay-for for the Affordable Car Act. Too many liberal non-profits make their money off of charitable deductions and don’t want to see them constrained, I suspect. The entire millionaire’s tax was initiated to ensure uniform Senate Democratic support, to take away a talking point about the only bipartisan option being rejection of the bill when it comes up for a vote next week. And even then, Ben Nelson is likely to bolt, so this is a fool’s errand.
I don’t have a problem with a millionaire’s tax. But I do think it’s problematic to define rich upward to this degree, as if American families making, say, half a million a year are overtaxed.
Progressive taxation is great. The idea that maybe the tax code should distinguish between $250,000 in taxable income and $2.5 million in taxable income is reasonable. But still, this is a problematic move. In particular, I think it highlights the rhetorical and thematic problem that the laser-like focus on “taxing the rich” had all the way back to President Obama’s original formulation. The implicit message here is identical to the conservative message on taxes — public services aren’t worth paying for.
My view is that that’s mistaken. Or at least it ought to be mistaken. That having a police force is a good idea. That transportation infrastructure is broadly useful and beneficial. That a military that meets the country’s national security needs is essential to everyone’s wellbeing, and that one that goes beyond real security needs is a waste that should be curtailed. There’s nothing wrong with a little redistribution to enhance social welfare, and there’s nothing wrong with observing that you have to go for revenue to where the money is. But you can’t be making the case for an active public sector on the basis of a promise that nobody will ever be asked to pay for anything.
Taxes need to be completely re-thought through the lens of what it takes to pay for the things society demands. What’s a priority (the social safety net) and what isn’t (imperial adventures). Who can pay and who can’t. If Democrats guard the rich, or near-rich if your prefer, because $250,000 a year “does not get you a big home or lots of vacations or anything else that is associated with wealth,” you’re just not going to close to a level of revenue that allows for the national priorities. Instead, it’s a version of starving the beast, and it gives opponents just the opportunity they need to fearmonger about deficits and demand cuts to spending.
Inequality is such that defining rich upward still gets you significant revenue. But long-term, it’s not a great idea.




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Hate to break this, but you could tax every individual and family in America that earns $250k and up at 100%, take every dime they make, and you will still come up short on next year’s projected budget to the tune of over $2 trillion.
Obviously a 100% tax will not happen so the actual number is even worse. So now what?
Ya know DDay, I think we can just about condense every significant problem we face into one word: greed. It moves everything these days. I know it’s always played a huge role but since it became patriotic to be greedy, there doesn’t seem to be any end of the depravity people will sink to. The rich people who rule over us will always pass laws to benefit them, it’s never for the benefit of the rest of us.
First I dispute your claim and would need citation and second,
Just stopping all of the warring and working toward full employment would go a long way toward closing any gaps in the various budgets and that would be pretty much immediate.
Over at Ezra Klein’s place:
Having $14 million in the bank makes you a `half-millionaire’.
No wonder Johnny can’t do math.
If corporations are people, they rrreally need to start paying more taxes.
Hate to break this to you but Bill LCinton who raised taxes slightly on the upper class and guess what? Surpluses and a plan to pay off the national debt by 2010.
I do love assertions
but next years deficit will be well under $2 trillion
And taxing all income over $250,000 at 100% would produce a great deal more than the deficit. Check you IRS tables and the raw data – adjust the “adjusted income” by counting investments at 100% and note that money goes about 90% to the over 250 crowd (yes because of pension and mutual funds about 70% get some investment income that reflects a tax break – but the amount is minimal – data based on 7 year old studies so perhaps the rich are not taking in so much now – yeah – right). Indeed check CATO raw data – they have poor analysis but they pull correct data.
As to the topic at hand – redefining rich upwards – Obama’s staff, and Obama, have a problem with admitting Clinton did anything correctly – so they are desperate as they chase a way, a reason, to not allow the Clinton tax rates to return, thereby allowing the next Congress to pass tax cuts knowing the effect on the deficit. It is not like the child credit increase will not be re-passed – the game is all about not letting a “CLINTON” tax come back, if even for 60 days. They would much rather screw the aged and sick.
If Obama loses he just might not sign on to another Bush tax rate rxtension since his successor is GOP – oh, wait – I forgot – Obama and the GOP are on the same team (yeah – I know Obama made a 2012 election promise to not extend the Bush tax cuts – but see Obama and 2008 election promises). So only the Senate can prevent yet another Bush tax cut extension.
“But you can’t be making the case for an active public sector on the basis of a promise that nobody will ever be asked to pay for anything.”
Not “nobody”. Just the 50% of the people out there who pay NO federal income taxes.
Hate to break this to you, ever-persistent moron, but if the economy were at full employment and the tax was present, the deficit would be close to being covered. Don’t parade your ignorance of basic economics. It’s too obvious.
The good news is that the OWS is bringing out what most of us here know but the great unwashed don’t know — that the distribution of income in the United States is exceptionally unequal by the standards of modern industrialized countries. When median household income is down in the low $50,000s and falling, it is hard for the average Joe not to think that $250,000 is a pretty high income. Now, speaking as someone who is actually in one of the higher brackets, I can testify to the fact that I don’t feel rich because I know too many people who are richer than I am. That’s why the rich complain. It’s positional.
Cry me a river.
That’s what I love about FDL, the polite debate which other, lesser sites just can’t match.
You prigs just can’t stop taxing people, so much so that you insist on taxing them multiple times on the same money. First, you take a percentage of their income. Then you insist on taking a share of what they make when the earn a return from investing on what you let them keep. And then, when they die, you take a huge portion of their remaining estate.
But when Meg collects unemployment for 2 years because her skills are not valued in the market, you say “tut tut, we shouldn’t make her pay taxes for the services SHE uses. Why, let’s not face the facts that she has taken 2 years and still can’t find a job, nor has she re-skilled herself to become valuable to the market. Let’s just extend her welfare and unemployment benefits even further”.
Really! So when we were at 5% unemployment and below, we were not running deficits? The problem is not the revenue side, it’s the spending side. I agree that we have spent way too much on wars, but it’s the damn social giveaways and welfare/Medicaid/Medicare atrocities that are killing us.
The R’s represent the top 1% and the D’s represent the next 4%. We need a party for the 95%.
But I still haven’t figured out why the guy making $250K who is too poor for a tax increase, figures the way to avoid that is to cut the compensation of the the teacher making $50-75K. I wouldn’t have the Warren Buffett rule, I’d have the 1st grade teacher rule. If you’re making more money than your kid’s teacher, you can afford a tax increase.
Well, could we export the trust fund set to Somalia so they could live happily ever after in country where they don’t have to be taxed for public services?
“But I do think it’s problematic to define rich upward to this degree, as if American families making, say, half a million a year are overtaxed”.
What happened to $250k being rich? Didn’t YOU just define “rich” upward as well? Do you even know what you are talking about?
Lead on, McDuff
I’m not certain the Kennedy clan would make it in Somalia.
…what, last year’s ermine?
I got news for you: he WAS polite.
Well, they have the free choice to remain here, enjoy the amenities, and pay taxes.
All money is taxed multiple times – what do you think a sales tax does to the income you receive as wages?
It seems we have different definitions of polite, but no matter, do carry on.
Raise taxes too much and it might just change. I suppose we could try and see what happens.
I love Google -
seems 12% of the nations income is above 250, and we have a 10% deficit (spending 25+% while barely collecting 16% of GDP). The above 250 group is 1.92% of the population.
Maybe we can replace Cain’s 9-9-9 with a 100% of income above 250 tax plus a 5% annual tax on the value of assets over 1 million. – - 98% of us would pay no tax to fund those wars that the rich make so much money off of.
I like it.
And the top 1%% steals 25% of the income so what ?
Where do we bury all the people who died of starvation?
I’ve been employed since May. Somebody wake this individual up, please. Oh yeah and I paid taxes on my unemployment income. At 10%. Which is 10% more than what GE paid during that same period.
I’m reasonably sure that Rafe wouldn’t make it either, reality not being your strong suit…
And I never drew welfare or even food stamps.
You couldn’t send me, I’m not part of the trust fund set, so I’m safe from the righteous anger.
The tax debate has to be about ALL taxes and fees paid, as a percentage of a person’s income or wealth. That is where many Dems and progressives miss the big picture. As soon as the taxation debate becomes “income taxes”, the debate is lost. Add all the taxes a typical person pays just to live:
income tax
state income tax
local income tax
payroll taxes
gasoline tax
sales tax
property tax
motor vehicle fees
hotel tax
airline tax
excise tax on your phone bill
when you add up all the taxes a middle class family pays as a percent of their total income, you get something above 40%
and then compare to a rich person who receives their income through capital gains and dividends, and add all the other taxes to that, and you get something around less than 20%
that’s the accurate picture of what’s going on, the rethug talking point that the top 20% pay the majority of income tax. Sure, that’s true, but once you get away from “income” tax, you find that the rich pay a much smaller percentage in total taxes. That is called “regressive” taxation, and boy have we got that in a big way.
“Margaret”, did you think I was referring to YOU when I was railing on the deadbeat unemployed tax dodging scum who are getting a virtual free ride and sucking off society because they have no employable skills?
I was using “Meg” but could have just as easily used “Jane Doe”.
How unfortunate – guilty conscience?
No, you’re not. Again with that little problem with reality.
Not at all. Many trolls call me “Meg”, knowing that I hate it and I judge that you know that and that I am exactly the person you were referring to. But whether me or one of the other 14 million long term unemployed, your statement fairly drips with hatred and ignorance, therefore my comment was appropriate.
Because what matters to you progs is not how much someone contributes to society but what is a “fair share” of what they have. How convenient for those with little to contribute.
I drive on the same roads as someone making 10 times less than I do. I use the same amount of clean air, police and fire services, have tue same protections from our military, and don’t take up more of the public airwaves. But I’m expected to pay more total dollars to fund them because I have made the right educational and job choices, and have worked my butt off to fend for myself and my family.
But you (and that idiot Elizabeth Warren) would have me believe that I have somehow benefitted to a greater degree than those with EXACTLY THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES to make something of themselves as I.
Gosh, didn’t mean to offend, MARGARET. That was my mom’s middle name, so maybe I was channeling some sort of complex from my childhood.
I will make a big poster and go to OWS proclaiming that I was not writing about you. Just gotta find someone to design the poster for me…….
This is the basis of the great republican lie “Everyone can become a millionaire”. No, there is a limited pool of our money to run our economy so there’s the lie the wealth hoarders spew their hoarding doesn’t hurt anyone else.
Wealth hoarders are some of the most selfish, self centered anti-American people in the country. You never see them volunteering, usually, to train and fight fires because they are too busy making money. When their house is on fire they expect other lessor citizens to drop what they’re doing and pull their bacon from the fire. Taxes calm the insatiable greed .
In the ground unless they are too poor to afford a proper burial then they just get burnt up.
Yikes, but at least we soaked them before they permanently tipped over.
I’m not? But…but…I’m a veteran, I suppose I barely qualify as middle class, underwater in my mortgage…don’t I deserve some sympathy?
Your words show such a stunning lack of understanding of how our economy works that I don’t know where to start. Your argument is that generating an income is a zero-sum game. That the very act of me making money somehow diminishes someone else’s chance of doing the same. Not surprising given that you progs believe that “big business” is raping you.
Not to mention that the main reason the top few percent pay such a large percent of the total income tax collected is because of the escalation in income inequality. Their argument becomes absurd. If the top 1% took 99% of all income they’d be still be whining that the bottom 99% should pay 99% of the income taxes.
happytosharewithmyfamilybutdamnifiwillsharewithanyoneelsebecausewelljustbecausesoinsteadiwill
demonizethepoorandthatwillmakemeevenhappier
Say that 3 times fast.
Yes, that seems to sum it up well. Except I’m not demonizing anyone. I just have utter disdain for those who would call me a corporate rapist just because I have actually made something of myself.
Have some cake.
If you’re so concerned about the services that the poor use/receive, why not make everything a la carte. I don’t have kids – why should I pay for schools. I’m not getting anything out of the current wars – why should I pay for that. I don’t have businesses in other countries, why should I pay for that infrastructure. And on and on.
Keep your cake. Austerity means I can’t afford it. As far as I can see, you called yourself a corporate rapist, not anyone here. More projection. If you don’t want to pay your fair share, just say so and stop whining.
Fine with me. Send me a menu and an itemized bill. Send one to Meg, too. And everyone at OWS.
Sorry, “Margaret”
Could be you display a stunning lack of understanding and empathy.
Sure. Send me a copy of your income taxes. Also, include all the services and infrastructure you, and the companies you invest in, use.
You may not like Ms. Warren, but she definitely is NOT an idiot.
perfect example of downward class envy, Ayn, it’s disgusting and in your old age you’re going to be glad you have those socialist protections.
We’re all one bad decision away from destitution.
What are you “happytoshare”, a ride in your big pick up truck, lifted high off the ground, the one with the big wheels and the rifle rack in the back window and the “Bachman/Palin, It’s a No Brainer” bumpersticker??
I’ll put it in the mail today. Should I address it to Zuccotti Park?
What is it, that you can’t wait to tell us, that you have made of yourself?
Should have said …”what you have made of yourself>
Some of you are there already. LOL!
I’d post a picture of my Porsche but I can’t attach files on this rag!
Sweet ride……
I’m going to make a prediction: that if you ever end up in a terrible situation, possibly of your own making, by mistake or just out of ignorance or not, perhaps your health fails or you get in an accident and your insurance drops you, you will remember what a selfish and small person you were towards your fellow countrymen, and I don’t mean anyone here at FDL.
And you will be glad for the help you receive from someone who will be more generous than you have the capacity for.
You’re stunted emotionally.
May I respond to that with a hearty “No, we all aren’t”. Sorry for butting in.
Only a fool would put their rifles in a window-mounted rifle rack, it’s an open invitation to some unscrupulous dude who may decide he wants them.
Just post it here. Save yourself a stamp.
Y’know, you are probably one of the 99%. You’re getting screwed too. You imply via your nickname that you’re happy to share, but everything you say indicates you are not happy to share. Nothing personal, mind you, you might be a nice person, I don’t know. Forget about the poor for a minute and ask yourself if you’re working so hard, do you really think the 1% should get most of the fruits of your labor?
Yes, you are. it’s called attributable risk percentage.
Ok, let’s just say I’ve put quite a bit of effort towards NOT finding myself in a bad place because of a bad decision, most notably by reducing the chances that I would make a bad decision in the first place.
THATS THE POINT!! It is not the federal government’s job (nor any government for that matter) to be making decisions about how much of my money I should keep and how much should go to others less fortunate. I have always relied on the kindness of strangers (and my family, and my friends, and my church) to help me when I have needed it. Not an imperial socialist government that confiscates my wealth to make up for others’ failings and hard times and bases its policies on class envy, hatred and the premise that those with more deserve less.
A good neighbor will let you sleep on his couch when you need a place to rest. A GREAT neighbor will tell you to get off your ass and set yourself straight when you overstay your welcome. The imperial federal government hopes you just plain set up shop and grows roots, and become addicted to the public dole.
Others profit from my hard work. So be it. I make a paycheck, stock options, and grow as well. Fair trade to me.
“Hate to break this, but you could tax every individual and family in America that earns $250k and up at 100%, take every dime they make, and you will still come up short on next year’s projected budget to the tune of over $2 trillion.”
Hate to break it to you, but we didn’t get into this mess in one year. Go back and apply your suggestion over 10 years and let us know what you come up with.
Sorry, I don’t get your point.
You spewed something about how the 1% gets the lion’s share of the benefit from my labor. I disagree. No one forced me to take this job, this line of work, etc. I put in a day of work at what I negotiate to be a fair return. So be it. If I want to make more money, or work less, it’s in my control.
What, tax everyone at 100% over ten years, or raise taxes and pretend that it’s being done in a vacuum and people won’t respond in all sorts of creative ways to their higher tax burden.
The point is, you could take all the money that those people make, all the current war spending, and the combined profit of every single corporation on the Fortune 500 and you will still not be able to cover the projected 2012 budget of $3.7 trillion. Since none of this is going to be done the actual deficit number is scarier still.
It’s a spending problem.
Thanks. I didn’t think you had responded to anything I said but I wasn’t sure. Now I know.
Btw, stating facts is not really “spewing something”. Saying you’re happy to share when you really aren’t is disingenuous.
You are the one who brought up the straw man.
Point to a fact in that post of yours and I will retract my “sewage”.
Yes it is. The federal government owns your ass, literally. Your aren’t sovereign person until you petition the Feds to end your citizenship. Somalia does things a little differently.
We live in a place called society. You derive benefits from that. The government doesn’t need to be wasteful, like it is, but we sure don’t need to be giving billionaires bailouts and subsidies. We don’t live under a free market system either, which would be much fairer than this crony rapacious type of capitalism and the monopoly system that is enabled/created by the the government.
No one here argues for the empire we’ve become, and what you are describing isn’t socialism- its a communist system that you are alluding to when you say that all people should be made materially equal. you should read a book.
I so much disagree with almost all progressive ideas but agree with your statement “bad decision” …. I should have not have to pay for other people’s “bad decisions” —- it starts out in our schools with parents thinking that their children can do no wrong, must be the teacher’s fault that Johnny can’t read — NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY has been the downfall of our society and progressives are the enablers !!
First off, I’m assuming you are part of the 99%. Let us know if that’s not the case. You say you work hard and I say good for you. A disproportionate amount of your taxes are going to the 1%. All things being equal, if the 1% just paid their fair share, you would be making more money overall.
David, I have been thinking about what you said in the last paragraph for a long time and am surprised that no one in the political class seems to agree with you.
Step 1: Decide what you want the society to have (first class roads and bridges, healthcare, or third class roads and bridges and for profit healthcare).
Step 2: Find a way to pay for it.
THE real solution is finding a method to equalize regressive
I do NOT mean a flat tax, that would make regressive taxes even more regressive, I mean a method where a person making 500 a week paying a ten dollar two way toll into manhatten is not paying 10 percent of his wage for that tax while a man making 5000 dollars is paying one percent
I mean when I spend 40 dollars a week in gas and make 50 k, the road tax is not a higher percentage on me then the man making 400 k
most people don’t know it but the real reason a progressive income tax wsa created is to equalize the heavily weighted regressive tax burden
if we can find a method where regressive taxes are no longer regressive that will solve the issue
the problem with step 2 is the fact that they do find a way, and that is through regressive taxes and fees
see my post at 79 yours
the wealth class will gladly have first class everything as long as the labor class pays for it
that’s correct, wich I demonstrate in post 79
don’t know how on earth you got the idea it’s not the government’s job, of COURSE it’s te government’s job, as jefferson demonstrated, great wealth becomes disproportionatly powerful and can buy law which the government MUST prevent, money should not be able to buy you the right to pour your cancer in my kids air
in addition, when you live in a country you are agreeing to their social contract, you CAN’T unilaterally claim “it’s not their job” when YOU are playing in their field
AND if you have 80 percent of the assets you MUST pay 80 percent of the bills that allowed you to earn those assets, otherwise YOU ARE STEALING and of COURSE it’s the government’s job to confistcate what you have stolen
That’s quite a fact free assertion.
Why do you think its that the progressives who think that their child can do no wrong?
I’ve heard plenty of right wingers blame their children’s problem in school on the fact that the teacher spends too much time with the mexican or muslim children. That’s hardly taking responsibility. Right wingers have adopted the idea of social darwinism, which actually was something that fabian liberals advocated in the 20th century, and conservatives thought it was awful. Well, that was before ya’ll got the new Darby Bible.
I think that these stereotypes about progressives get propagated in the right wing sphere and they don’t neccessarily hold up to scrutiny. Just because we think grandma should get SS doesn’t translate into “everybody into the freeloader bus”.
must hit te sac, hope all have good dreams
And I’d say even now, here you are blaming some other people who you obviously know little about, and taking — NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!
okay, I’ll give you that fair analysis of my statement but still the purpose of my post was to point out your statement that included the “bad decision” terminology …. my bad decision would be my problem, not yours or anyone elses’ … also, as a matter of fact I give to charitable organizations that assist fellow citizens in their time of need but I also truly believe that it is a personal “good decision” of mine — the government has no role in making that decision for me just as the government does not partake in any bad decision the I or anyone else might make.
the taxes I pay still should not be used for someone else’s “bad decision” — your words not mine.
Are you familiar with what feudalist society was like in europe through the middle ages before they decided to change the system?
There is a good reason they changed it. They tried all sorts methods: feudal lords collecting taxes, poor houses and work houses.
Now I do agree with much of what Ron Paul preaches, and I don’t agree with the neoliberal dems and their ideas either, it’s parasitic. The government has warped the taxation system to hold on to power and it’s not in our favor, It’s so regressive that if you’re not born into an affluent family the chances of you having a better life that your parents did is almost nil.
If you listen to the haters though you will think that is what progressives want. Both sides do it. As far as the school problem, I think you’re wrong. There are people in society that freeload off the system but its not fair to classify them as progressives – who historically sought to improve society, not to enable bums to be bums.
Having humanistic values and empathy for others isn’t a weakness as the current crop of Tribalistic right wingers think it is, but also as the economic conditions get worse people start identifying enemies within to blame things on.
good post — thanks for your insight — the more we all learn from each other life’s experiences the better we will be as a society. A little of my personal experiences — have two wonderful daughters, both in their mid-twenties and very self-sufficient, I have been deep in debt a few times and worked myself out of each time — been through several marriages and now married to my soulmate — and throughout my up and down life I have always believed that my life is what I make of it … good or bad.
A lot of ignorant trolls out tonight. And Rafe, when you get your Nobel in econ or even your high school diploma, come back and give us your deep insights. I say this in all friendship: you and your friend don’t know shit about economics, technical (I can go anywhere you want to in game theory and stochastic dynamic programming if you’d like to dance), or non-technical.
Taxation levels is only a subset of the problem, and it hijacks the discussion. We are discussing tax levels because we do not have enough government revenue to pay the government bills. Social Security and Medicare are currently both self supporting and come out of discreet funds. They are not supported by income taxes and should not be part of the discussion. The US government is spending too much money on two 10 year wars, and facing a reduction in income because 25% of the citizens are under-employed. The people are under-employed because the banks securitized home mortgages so they could gamble on them, lost their bets and panicked. They stopped lending money to construction projects, which stopped all construction, which has been the major indicator of economic health for most of a century.
The solution is simple, and I frankly can not figure out why the PTB do not just implement it. Then they could get back to their un-godly profit games.
All the wealthy have to do is to tell the government to start spending on construction projects, and put that industry back to work. They construction will fund the rest of the neighborhood.
All I can figure out is that the Powers That Be are too stupid to run this capitalist system we have! They crashed the system and are too stupid to fix it. They have all of the power and are just too dumb to fix things.
And Rafe, my favorite reoccurring Troll. Most of us do not want to be rich, a fact that the wealthy just can not imagine. We just want enough to live our lives in quiet peace, with a job to go to and enough surplus to eat out once in a while and send our kids to college.
All we want is for the people who broke us to quit taking what little we have left to support their million dollar mansions and exotic vacations. If they want to be rich, then they should pay for their largesse. The rest of us are broke!
Yeah, drive through the worst neighborhoods in your city and tell me that those people all had the same opportunities that you had. Total bullshit, self riteous bullshit. And you consume the same amount of services, I think you’re trying to say, as everyone else, so everyone should pay the same, I think is your point.
Actually, if you make serious money in this country, you are using way more resources than someone who doesn’t make the jack. Think about it. for example:
The entire legal system is a government funded entity. They protect your property for you, they collect the money owed to you. They protect your patents.
The FAA. If you make money, you fly on jets, if you’re broke you walk.
The SEC. If you have wealth, you own stocks and bonds, and you need a whole army to pretect your investments. A poor guy ? not so much
The Pentagon. They open new markets for your products, and protect multinational corporation, in which you own stock.
Schools. Who do you think trains the workers who make money for business owners ?
I could go on and on. I’m retired, I owned a business for twenty years that I built through my own hard work. But I never minded writing the six figure tax check because I knew I could have never done it without the numerous services and protections my country provided to me. Bottom line, people who create wealth, create that wealth with a massive assist from our government.
my guess is you inherited your money, those seem to be the people who howl the most about paying taxes. If you actually earned it, you’d understand all the help you got.
You again assert, incorrectly, that: “The point is, you could take all the money that those people make, all the current war spending, and the combined profit of every single corporation on the Fortune 500 and you will still not be able to cover the projected 2012 budget of $3.7 trillion. Since none of this is going to be done the actual deficit number is scarier still. It’s a spending problem.”
I suspect you do not work in finance or taxes, or indeed in math, and do not use google very much. What you say has been said on Fox and by Rush, et.al. – and what Fox, Rush says has been shown to be lies.
The facts are at your finger tips – download the IRS spreadsheet breakouts at irs.gov – adjust for special tax reductions that the rich get. Indeed the work has been done for you by many folks.
Think of a 100 yard football field the length of which represents the US population. Then with the US population represented along the length of the football field, arranged in order of income:
Median US family income (the family at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)
–The family on the 95 yard line earns about $100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4 inches high.
–At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000, a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.
–The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.
–From there it keeps going up…it goes up 50 km (~30 miles) on this scale! – and a sad fact is that the 30 mile high folks do not add much to the economy or provide all that many jobs beyond “servants” to the nation.
In 2006 the top 1% earned 21.3% of all income in the nation – so a 100% tax does not cover a 25.5% of GDP spending pattern.
But it sure covers the deficit – and you did say that the wars could be removed in the calculation – 120 billion for Afghanistan with Iraq down from its 900 billion since 2003 to the current years 80 billion or so – so perhaps it does cover a total “no war” budget. Indeed if we get rid of toys for boys – the doubling of Pentagon spending since Clinton left – we may even have a surplus. And I did not even tax corporate profits as yet :-) !
Before you assert that crap again, could you give the government source you used, or your economist used, to make your assertion.
There are too many trained in math, economics, and finance on this board – it is not fair to the Rafe’s of this world! :-)
(stochastic dynamic programming !!!! – good grief – correlated markov chain – transition equation – you sound like an economist – or actuary – this will scare the children away! :-) )
Thank God Rafe’s question is a simple look up at the IRS.
You display a stunning lack of awareness of the framers of the Constitution and their weary eye on wealth accumulation. First of all, it certainly IS the job of a government to decide what part of your income you keep! Would you rather that gun-toting thugs, like on the streets of Somalia, decide that? I suspect that even you would rather that the government, which you have been taught to loathe, should provide protective services like police, the military, a fire department, etc. Why can you not see that because you USE more of those services than someone who makes less income than you, you OWE more than they do? Or is it just that you don’t want to see that? Do you really think that your shit doesn’t stink?
Secondly, the framers were ABSOLUTELY aware of and concerned about the accumulation of inordinate amounts of wealth, for several reasons. They saw first-hand, what a large international corporation, attending only its own selfish concerns, could do to colonies and sovereign nations. That large international corporation was called the East India Corporation and it was run by the royals and their wealthy courtiers. It engendered slavery, poverty, illegal trade, the pillaging of natural resources and defacto control of the British Parliament in the first part of the nineteenth century. That is why, when the United States was founded, corporations had very limited roles. In fact, this reading from Third World Traveler says it best:
And finally, you are completely off the rails and repeating self-serving, right-wing LIES when you say that the government “confiscates your wealth”. Tell us, Mr. Successful, how that occurs exactly? The US Government taxes INCOME, not wealth. No one comes to your house and takes your marble table as this year’s payment to the government.
You might have ‘success’ but you must have gone to a third-rate university. Either that, or you bought your education right along with your wealth and didn’t learn a goddamned thing about history or economics.
I drive on the same roads as someone making 10 times less than I do. I use the same amount of clean air, police and fire services, have the same protections from our military, and don’t take up more of the public airwaves. But I’m expected to pay more total dollars to fund them…
Why do you hate Jesus?
And Jesus sat opposite the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury. And many who were rich cast in much.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing
And He called unto Him His disciples and said unto them, “Verily I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast more in than all they that have cast into the treasury;
for they all cast in of their abundance, but she of her want cast in all that she had, even all her living.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A41-44&version=KJ21