The Associated Press reports that the Obama Administration has abandoned plans to keep military troops in Iraq beyond the December 2011 deadline. The Administration could not secure immunity from prosecution for its troops operating in the country, so they’ve decided to bug out instead. A substantial amount of personnel will remain at the US Embassy and some satellite diplomatic outposts in Iraq (in Basra, Irbil and Kirkuk), perhaps up to 11,000 foreign service officials, with another 5,000 private military contractors guarding them. There will be around 150 military personnel attached to the Embassy for protection and facilitating sales of armaments, but that’s standard practice around the world.
This is the right move for the wrong reason. The troops are coming home only because Iraq’s government would not give legal immunity to the remaining forces in the field.
Throughout the discussions, Iraqi leaders have adamantly refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans have refused to stay without it. Iraq’s leadership has been split on whether it wanted American forces to stay. Some argued the further training and U.S. help was vital, particularly to protect Iraq’s airspace and gather security intelligence. But others have deeply opposed any American troop presence, including Shiite militiamen who have threatened attacks on any American forces who remain.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has told U.S. military officials that he does not have the votes in parliament to provide immunity to the American trainers, the U.S. military official said.
A western diplomatic official in Iraq said al-Maliki told international diplomats he will not bring the immunity issue to parliament because lawmakers will not approve it.
The Administration wanted a training force of 5-7,000 troops to stay in the country. But since they would be liable for prosecution inside Iraq if they committed a crime, they will be pulled out instead.
As I mentioned, you will still have an unspecified presence of State Department personnel and private military contractors in Iraq, so there is a sense that you’re mainly changing uniforms here. But the presence of people with guns will certainly go down quite a bit. Someone will need to train the Iraqis on the military equipment they just bought from the US. The most likely outcomes there are either the military contractors will send their own trainers, the State Department will take over the training mission through their diplomatic presence, or military personnel will train the Iraqis somewhere outside Iraq, like in Kuwait.
Iraq has not been a top priority for this Administration, which shifted forces to Afghanistan and increasingly to secret wars and drone strikes around the world, and it has not been a top priority for the public in recent years, becoming just another forgotten post-9/11 war. But it wasn’t so long ago that this was the major political issue facing the nation. Now it will be over, and since we have virtually no ability to control events in Iraq, that’s a positive development. The Administration isn’t going willingly – if Iraq could guarantee immunity, some troops would be staying – but they are going.
It’s almost surreal to think that this totally unnecessary war, which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, thousands of Americans and hundreds of billions of dollars, will actually be over in a matter of months. It was a tragic mistake that needed desperately to come to a close. And now, it will.



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R.I.P.
No, I mean it. For all the dead, disabled, haunted. R.I.P.
saw some pictures from Iraq (from Yahoo News) of a 4 year old boy with his left arm blown off by a bomb.
Also saw a video this week of a severely deformed baby born in Fallujah. One in four babies born in Fallujah die before they are a week old.
The evil the USA has done to Iraq will persist for generations. The USA should be punished for this monstrous evil.
The MOTU should be punished. I am/was was against the occupation. Most of us are.
Thanks DDay.
This will amp up the pressure on Afghanistan. Every US family who lost a son or daughter in Iraq has had it confirmed that their children died in vain. Ditto for US service personnel who left a limb or their sanity there.
I have to think OWS was a major driver in Obama’s decision. He’s Commander and Chief. He doesn’t need Congress to withdraw from Afghanistan.
Thank you, DDay.
I agree totally with what bittersweet, dancewater, and BooRadley say above.
I offer peace to the greivously wronged people of Irak and hope that my country, my nation, has learned something of value and will find the courage to apologise to the people, the human beings of Irak, and beg their forgiveness for the crimes, the montrous crimes, which we have visited upon them. I hope, further that my society will seek to find proper redress to the Iraki people for what we have done and the steadfast moral courage to hold ourselves to proper account. Peace be unto the people of the World … and truth and such humanity as we may yet claim, be unto us …
DW
“11,000 foreign service officials, with another 5,000 private military contractors guarding them.”
So every other State Dept. Official in Iraq will have their own personal body guard?
Why not bring out the State Dept. also, 11000 is like a medium sized town!
I agree with firehawk; 11,000 State Department personnel? You gotta be kidding me, right?
And I wonder about the private security personnel: what kind of immunity do they have, or not have?
Operation Iraqi Freedom was a huge financial and human investment to liberate a country and convert it to — a place only slightly less corrupt than Afghanistan and Somalia, a place where suspects are routinely detained and tortured, a place that is a firm ally of US enemies Iran and Syria, and a place where there is no justice.
from CNN:
When asked about the legal immunity issue, Major Gen. Dana J. H. Pittard, commander at Fort Bliss, said, “We’re going to do what’s right by our soldiers. . .We shouldn’t see American soldiers in Iraqi courts on trumped-up charges,” he said.//
Don’t forget to turn the lights out at the bases.
This has been background noise all year long, “trial balloons” from “anonymous high ranking officials” that “the Iraqi government is running out of time if they want some of our troops to remain.” Some, right. This was foreseeable, but I admit I didn’t think it would happen. The first hint was when W was forced to give in on the SOFA agreement, the next was when the oil contracts did NOT go to the U.S. companies. Now they have to abandon those huge permanent bases they spent billions building, thinking the neocons’ dream was going to come true and Iraq would be our garrison in the Middle East.I think we screwed up strategically.
The Fallujah war crime event has been erased. sent to the memory hole.
this person was too busy to see the wikileaks video I suppose.
“Keep shooting, keep shooting, keep shooting.”
It’s simple.
All wars are promoted, and continued, by scum.
x2.
Other possible reasons for pulling everyone out: 1. A pending US and Israeli attack on Iran – our troops in Iraq would be wiped out immediately by Iranian counter attack. 2. MFOTU need more troops in the more lucrative Africa natural resources war that’s building. 3. All those PMCs guarding our forces and civilians in Iraq are needed at home because of the perceived terroristic Occupy Movement.
Just in time for them to invade Iran.
It would be right to give W and Dick a one way ticket….then we can say “Mission Accomplished.” Maybe Powell and Rummy as well, those who could never articulate a reason, b/c there was none, for going in.
for the win! Obama is dying for his own personal war. War presidents don’t lose. Libya isn’t real, and Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t really his either. Iran is the big kahona.
I concur about the contractors. 5,000 mercenaries on the gov’t dole is still way too much. The problem has always been the “contractors” not the troops.
hey wait a minute. Obama has no power. Because of the republicans, he could not give us a decent health care bill, close gitmo,stop the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, do anything for jobs and on and on and on and now all of a sudden he has the power to get us out of a war.
Who will be the first to congratulate Bush for this “Mission Accomplished”? Or who will be the first to accuse Obama of losing this war?
I don’t get it. We want the troops out of Iraq and they are coming out, but you choose to insult the administration by using the term “bug out” from the Korean War, a term that implies cowardice. I don’t see anything cowardly about finally ending the occupation of Iraq.
I don’t either! I don’t think “bug out” is a negative term. It’s just another way to say “leave”.
I’ll believe it when I actually see the whites of our troops eyes back on American soil. A sudden change of heart by the Iraqi government is not without precedent–especially when greedy contractors are involved.
The “died in vain” meme seems dangerous to me. Although it’s surely not your intention, some might construe your thought to imply that “in vain” is connected with ending the occupation. Was there an outcome to the invasion that would have allowed you to say the soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq didn’t die “in vain?”
Korea was prolly before your time. :)
This is a very real concern, Margaret, and, if it turns out to be true, it will raise the cost of the inevitable “accounting” this nation must someday face, to levels far beyond any example which history may suggest.
DW
That brought tears to my eyes, well put and thank you for something I too feel but could not put into words so well.
Perhaps, it were more correct to say they “died, not for any noble or honest patriotic cause, but for the vain hubris and frivolous imaginings of the privileged few …”?
DW
11,000 foreign service officials,……..??
They must be expecting a lot of visa and passport applications.
I disagree that the Obama team is pulling almost all military out of Iraq owing to the inability to get immunity for the military from the Iraqi government. I certainly can’t point to hard evidence! but I simply suspect that the reality is that the US occupation of Iraq is 100% completely politically and economically unsustainable, and that any failure to get immunity for the military would have nothing to do with any serious refusal from Iraq. The reality is that the Obama team is probably using the lack of immunity as an excuse or pretext for taking an opportunity to pull out.
The era of large-scale US military engagement with the rest of the world is coming to an end. The US has failed to produce a viable domestic economic model, and is instead being bled dry by a parasitic class of ultra-wealthy plutocrats. You can’t occupy countries half a world away when you can’t sustain a domestic economy that keeps most people basically content.
A round of applause is in order for the Iraqi gov’t for refusing to allow Americans immunity. Maybe they have better laws than we do.
SecDef Panetta, Oct 13:
So look for increasing instability (significant challenges) in Iraq right up to Dec 31, in a last-ditch attempt to keep US troops in that country. It’s worked before, with the Samarra mosque bombing in 2006 which exacerbated Iraqi sectarian strife and delayed the US military exit.
The Imperial Guard shall not be subject to any rule of law by the occupied people.
Bear in mind, that is the reason for our final (I hope) pull out from Iraq and not any consideration of what is the right thing to do. Those troops will just be shifted to the civil war in Uganda by Emperor Obama the Deceiver without any constitutional restraints or congressional approval.
Is anyone here aware that Obama is already sending combat troops to Uganda?
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/20111014174712102972.html
Staying in Iraq is national policy and it still might happen. It ain’t over ’til it’s over.
past news reports and opinions:
Senior US officials have recently expressed concern about the ability of contractors and the State Department to take over the responsibilities that the Pentagon currently carries out Iraq, including everything from providing security to maintaining intelligence networks.
“I think it’s also obvious that the Iraqi military doesn’t have a lot of the technological capability that they need to combat to this kind of insurgency that is still out there,” Sen. John McCain, the committee’s top Republican, said in Thursday’s hearing.
Rep. Adam Smith, the House Armed Services Committee’s top Democrat, said it is “highly likely” that the Iraqi government will request US troops to stay. “I’d be very surprised” if that didn’t happen,” he added.
* Iraq to face problems without U.S. military: Gates
* WaPo — Why U.S. troops should stay in Iraq
* US News & WR — Op-Ed: U.S. Military Must Stay On In Iraq
* Iraq Will Ask US Troops to Stay Post-2011, says Panetta
* Why U.S. Troops Should Stay in Iraq – Council on Foreign Relations
This doesn’t sound like pulling out “all the troops” to me. A contingent will be left. 5,000 mercenaries hired by the State Department are clearly an advance force to trigger American re-invasion if our clients don’t continue to act like our clients. Reminds me of the Roman Empire where officially places like Palestine were independent under King Herod but in our historical atlases we include it as part of the empire.
The mercenaries are particularly gross. The US should be banned by Federal law from employing mercenaries in combat or armed roles. Period. If anything, they cost more.
LOL. Glad you pointed out the bullshit arguments.
Long overdue.
About GD time!
For those that have served, and are still serving – THANK YOU!
When questioned about Iraq and the lies and futility of it all, a colonel (a military lifer) responded that Bush had picked the US military as his “pony” because he knew he could ride this pony till it dropped dead from exhaustion and it would never complain. What this pony needed was a better cowboy.
Our sons and daughters serving overseas still desperately need a better leader. That leader could start by bring them ALL home.
It’s not just what we have done (so far) to Iraq – there will be horrific birth defects and cancers for hundreds of years in Iraq, thanks to the US war of aggression.
And I don’t buy into blaming it all on the MOTU…. because about 70% of Americans supported this war of aggression in early 2003, about 15% were against it, and 15% were ambivalent. So, I think about 85% of the country has a penitence to pay to Iraqis.
I also don’t buy the excuse that the corporate media lied to them. People should be punished for being so gullible – it was easy to figure out that there were no WMDs in Iraq back in 2002.
Diplomatic Immunity
DD, that is not ALL.
Come on, DD. You’re killing me.
You said just yesterday that Obama started a mini-war, YOUR WORDS, with 100 troops in Africa!
DD, please, this is the kind of nonsense we need to hear form the filth carriers of the obama support-at-any-cost crowd, but why lie to us? We’re all friends at FDL, right, even if some of our opinions aren’t friendly to each other. Can we be honest? Is that too much to ask?
Indeed.
A training presence going forward wasn’t the troops’ real purpose in Iraq. They were to be there as a more political than military presence on Iraqi soil, boots on the ground regardless of their stated mission, and as a statement to the region.
It may be that immunity is just a convenient side issue rather than the primary point of disagreement. Perhaps Iraq perceived it as a way to pry the US away to please its neighbors. Whatever the real story is behind the supposed tiff, I’m glad the troops are coming home.
If Iraqi troops really do need training they can be deployed to bases on US soil on a rotating fashion for almost any specialty. We already do this to accommodate other countries, it would be nothing new.
No, this is all legitimate. If we’re going to have an “embassy” the size of Vatican City, then someone’s gotta guard it. And of course we need 11,000 “diplomats” there. When you commit an illegal and unprovoked war of aggression against an oil-rich Third World country, invading it, overthrowing its government, killing, maiming, widowing and torturing its people, destroying its economy, rendering it radioactive through extensive use of depleted uranium, destroying its infrastructure, destroying its water purification plants, provoking a bitter, internecine civil war that would make our own look like (and you should excuse this expression) a tea party and rendering it vulnerable to infiltration by its age-old enemy Iran, there are going to be a lot of hurt feelings and you need lots ‘n’ lots ‘n’ lots of the striped-pants set to say good things on our behalf. See how reasonable it all is?
The 100 is for starters, and it may be for several months. Looking at a map of Africa one sees a portion, a swath of territory, large enough to need thousands. Otherwise, what exactly do 100 advisors do in the situation as described?
Where was the UN in all of this?
There’s still plenty going on, including Iraq.
Operation New Dawn
Arabian Sea, Bahrain, Gulf of Aden, Gulf of Oman, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Persian Gulf, Qatar, Red Sea, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates.
Operation Enduring Freedom
Guantanamo Bay (Cuba), Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Jordan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Philippines, Seychelles, Sudan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uzbekistan, and Yemen. (and now: Uganda, DR Cong, Burundi, S. Sudan ?)
The US is coming up on the ten-year mark with hundreds of troops in Philippines, for just one example. And that’s not all. The DOD doesn’t even mention Somalia. Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti (mentioned) is the only U.S. military base located in Africa.
Iran is being stoked and AfPak will now extend into Uzbekistan. Regarding the new deployment, the US has supplied drone aircrafts to Uganda and Burundi, its defence officials have told the BBC.
Scroll down to Dday’s post,”White Houose Starts Mini War in Africa”, maa8722, there are many who support Obama on that thread, they will tell you “what” the 100 will do.
It is worth the scroll, just on the educational “merits”, I assure you.
DW
They will be gone soon as they will be big targets for attack and will be attacked.
Think, Marine Barracks in Beirut.
The main, yet sub-rosa, problem is Iran in the region. Until Iran is changed, there will never be peace in the region. It does not matter what kind of agreement you want to make between Israel and Palenstine, Iran will never allow it to be made.
They will see to it that the US is run out of Iraq. And,there will be nothing to stop it.
Those 11,000 are like sitting ducks.
I agree with you there.
lmao
Occupation will not have ended with the excuse for all those Americans remaining. We’ve seen these kind of threats before to remove “all” Brand A forces. Now they will be referred to as Brand B.
When did the threshold for any belief become obama’s words? Maybe from now on, we should always use red letters when obama speaks?
C-A-M-P-A-I-G-N Obama is Baaaaackkk!
This phrase always seems to have some staying power and I don’t think I have ever seen it compassionately refuted, would like to see that though. I can refute it, just not kindly at the moment.
Not so fast, folks.
U.S. military denies decision to quit Iraq after 2011
LINK.
I agree that your skepticism is warranted, forest, however, the “drawdown” will be ballyhooed as the “end” of the “exercise” … which will, inevitably, open the doors to a discussion of “why” the “undeclared war” was begun and whether the United States has ANY responsibility to the people of Irak … for attacking a nation which did us no harm … and for killing near on a million of its citizens and making refugees of more than five million of its people. The issues MUST be raised, even if they are scoffed at and made mock of. As you imply, the “war” will not ever, “officially” be “over” and America will behave as if it did NOTHING wrong and was motivated only by the purity of its moral grandeur and hamanitarian instincts.
Nonetheless, an “opening” has presented itself for reflection.
Obama will “move on”, of course, “looking forward” to the next “challange” and opportunity of the corporate exploitation of resource, even as we both observed on the Mini War thread, yesterday.
Your efforts, on that thread were, and are, much appreciated, btw.
DW
Anyone who imagines we are leaving Iraq really isn’t doing the soldiers or their families any favors.
The soldiers can’t afford the gullibility of the pseudo-left in this country that will accept words in place of action. Then when Christmas is past and obama gives them their nice little piece of coal, they thank him and look forward to next christmas.
I suppose someone has to occupy those two huge military bases constructed at a cost of several billion dollars. My understanding is they’re giving away a lot of costly equipment to save the add’l cost of bringing them home. Oh well, no American will want to fight a war with 2nd hand equipment anyway, I suppose. /s
Right on cue, the military responds, fatster.
Thank you, as always, for quickly catching and sharing the link.
DW
Thnx, but Dang it, DWB! My heart was lightened by the knowledge that the Iraqis were throwing us out. I even had pleasant dreams. And now THIS!
Well, at least the #Occupy continues to pick up steam and surge. Go People, GO!
Thanks, DW. I am much appreciative of your insights and contributions.
If that discussion moved to the front for a few days, I’d welcome it. I don’t imagine it would have the same power as you are suggesting though. The issues are already regularly raised in the only places that would give them a fair hearing.
The appropriate place for that discussion is in war crimes courts not the msm. Their viewers are conditioned not to think but gorge themselves on the words elites excrete.
Welcome to the real world. Maybe you missed the memo. We don’t have to occupy countries like Iraq to control them. We can do a lot more damage with drones, flown by “pilots” at Langley who go to work every morning dressed in flight suits, than we could back in the stone ages of the invasion of Iraq. Drones have changed the landscape — for better or worse — as much as abolishing the draft changed it, and in much the same way.
I don’t know that it needs refuting. I think the family and friends of our sacred dead know whether or not they died in vain. They probably don’t need us to tell them.
We will still be occupying Iraq and to say otherwise is a bald faced lie.
You admit that everyone who believed this story has been had, right?
Maybe someone should send that memo of yours to the rest of the outposts of our empire?
I can only guess you mean sacred as highly valued and important not something more mystical, right?
How sacred were they when they were alive?
One shouldn’t attempt having a spirited discussion with someone who has fed the empire with their child or spouse.
How sacred were they when they were alive?
Are they sacred when they are brain damaged or missing limbs?
Are they sacred when they can’t get the empire’s crimes out of their heads?
Are they sacred when they commit suicide?
You can have your sacred and shove it. I imagine those families would prefer their family member back and to some day learn that this government knowingly committed evil acts will cause them great despair. better they never know, right? I sense that is the kind of magic thinking that someone such as yourself would suggest. We should tell them their dead are sacred because that is what the rulers always say when they demand your family member die for their greed.
So, yeah, they don’t need us to tell them because it is borderline cruelty. But who was really cruel? Wasn’t it rather the people who supported empire and propagate the lie that their death will be converted to the sacred.
I respect the soldiers but they aren’t nearly so ignorant, that they don’t know what the empire is up to, exceptions included of course.
So when the people are fed lies, repeated by the media, you would blame the people for not knowing the truth? Those who dared to tell the truth were trivialized, persecuted and attacked with character assassination. How about holding the liars accountable for misleading the public, for murder of innocents, for war crimes of using nuclear waste as bullets, for torture, and false imprisonment without evidence? What about the widespread bombings of civilian targets and public works? All done in the stated cause of removing Sadam Hussein, but instead bombing everyone except the target. Is it not a crime to assassinate a head of state of another country?
And the subject of immunity to Iraqi law; why should anyone have immunity to the law? Are we such a criminal country that we cannot abide by any laws? that alone is reason for the Iraqi’s to demand our departure.
Actually, I was thinking of the first responders who died at the World Trade Center on 9/11. But I suppose there is an analogy there with soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. First responders can die in fires set by an arsonists. I don’t think they are less sacred for that fact. And you can imagine what “those families” would prefer if you want to. I wouldn’t presume. And obviously you know less than zero about magic.
You got me there.
Your first responders aren’t sacred until they died and that’s why the D’s and R’s are still screwing them. Isn’t our government still not taking responsibility for all the cancer that incident caused? The living first responders had to FIGHT to get any support of health care benefits because the living can’t be sacred, is that right?
How sacred were they when they were alive?
The troops are leaving because the Iraqi government refused to grant blanket immunity for them. Per the negotiated agreement they were due to leave by the end of this year. OWS had no influence on Obama’s “decision”. He would have kept the troops there if they had been granted immunity, period. The only relationship Obomber has with OWS is an attempt to co-opt them for campaign purposes.
We’re not about to abandon the largest and most luxurious embassy installation in the world, the “Imperial City”, known as the green zone.
Thanks for your sentiments regarding all of the innocent people of Iraq, that were murdered, maimed, tortured, poisoned and displaced by the illegal US invasion and occupation.
Or in time to be diverted to Central Africa for “humanitarian reasons”.
Iran is not the problem in the region. The problem is the US, Saudi and Israeli presence and influence. The US and Saudi Arabia will never support an equitable solution to the Palestinian/Israeli impasse. Fixed it for you.
The invasion and occupation were the problem. The troops aren’t blameless either. I’m sure you saw the Wikileaks video of the troops firing on unarmed civilians from the helicopter. The use of depleted uranium and the atrocities at Abu Grahib were committed by our armed forces, as well. The killers for corprorations weren’t just the contractors.
Well, obviously, our sacred dead are dead. How sacred they were when they were alive depends on their individual families, I guess. I wouldn’t expect my sacred dead to be sacred to you, and the government doesn’t figure into it at all. Speaking just for myself, I’d say anybody who goes up the stairs toward an inferno while everyone else is running down is a special kind of person. Probably most of them think they’re just doing their job. But I can see how their memory might be sacred to somebody.
It’s clear you don’t think of the men and women who died in Iraq as first responders, and it’s just as clear you don’t think their families, understanding the exact circumstances under which they died, would still believe they didn’t “die in vain.” I may not get you, but you seem to be saying anyone who believed that — in the case of Iraq — would be deluding themselves or evading the truth about how and why their loved one died — that they would simply be in denial about the waste, and that we might have a duty — politically — to wise them up. I guess, ultimately, the idea is everybody who has family just votes for Presidents who won’t send anybody to war with anybody ever, or just votes for Presidents who will only send people to war for the “right” reasons. I don’t think that will happen, but I wish you luck. As for me, I’m willing to let the families work through it on their own.
Obama has the power to do exactly what his corporate handlers instruct him to do, and he’s done that quite well. It’s not a partisan thing. That’s just kabuki.
Going to abandon a lot of hardware and infrastructure if we really do go. But we’ve got other fish to fry, including next door in Iraq and in militarizing N. Africa. They may also think they need to act eventually in S. America if they are not to lose that whole continent, fastest-growing economically and completely repudiating the Washington Consensus.
In their urgent desire to believe the war in Iraq is finally over, some people here are forgetting that
1. Barack Obama is a pathological serial liar whom no one should believe absent compelling independent evidence that confirms what he says;
2. He announced that the war was over last December when it really was not; and
3. He withdrew some troops and changed the description of the troops that remained to something bland and nonthreatening, even though they continued to do their regular duties going on patrols into potentially dangerous areas while heavily armed and ready to kill.
Let’s read between the lines, shall we?
What about the 11,000 diplomats?
How about 1,000 “real” Foreign Service Officers and support staff with 10,000 CIA agents and JSOC assassins?
I do not believe for a minute that our military is done with Iraq.
And don’t forget all the depleted uranium we’re leaving there, either. Sort of a long-term reminder of our presence.
As for Latin America–I have high hopes!
I do hope bmull sees this.
Sen. Feinstein: U.S. on ‘collision course’ with Iran
LINK.
Sorry, that was me. Crane-Station and I are sharing a computer and I forgot to log her out.
Damn! I hate it when that happens.
Thanks, DW, I missed that one. So I read and scrolled, and it’s atill clear as mud.
The only clarity is the maneuvering and holding patterns developing in DC — the vultures are waiting to see if it works or not? Then there can be the blame game vs credit taken whatever results.
I’d still refer this to the UN unless Uganda is a direct threat to the US. Kinda doubtful there.
I noticed the “Democratic” Republic of the Congo on that list. That should be a show stopper from the gitgo, we should not be asking for anything there whatsoever and expect nothing in exchange. Blood diamonds, etc. I don’t know how bad the others are as well, but. . .
I agree with you about “words.” They’re irksome.
However, the word in this case was “training” which was the rationale (rather pseudo-rationale) for the troops remaining in Iraq.
So, I’d conclude in this instance that word came from the right rather than from the left. So the lie, if there was one, had to do with training as an excuse for staying — so it wasn’t a disagreement over immunity having to do with our troops’ departure.
We do not have any legitimate reason to have 16,000 personnel in Iraq, which is approximately the size of Rhode Island.
How many personnel do you think we have in Russia, or Slovokia?
NO WAY IS THIS WAR OVER. If it WAS over, we would have several hundred people in Iraq after 2011.
And to everyone, why SHOULD OUR TROOPS HAVE IMMUNITY from prosecution in any foreign country, including Iraq, when they commit crimes?
There is no immunity from prosecution in Japan. Or Britain. Or Germany. Etc. Course why occupy Britain when they already will do whatever we want.
“Trainers” do not need immunity from prosecution. Unless we close down our military bases completely, we should be considered to still be occupying the country. We may put people in State Dept. clothes in those bases, but as long as we have those bases, we can still drone or otherwise attack the population of Iraq or of nearby countries from Iraq.
They died honoring the commitment and oath they made to this country. The success or failure of the political “leaders” doesn’t diminish their commitment or the honor they deserve. Every one had far more honor than any of the political architects of that senseless war