The idea that a diverse global movement would settle on a singular idea on which to move forward isn’t very realistic. The Tea Party never had to do it outside of a bumper sticker like “smaller government.” But the Demands working group at Zuccotti Park is working around to that one demand, and not surprisingly, it involves the most important problem facing the nation today.
The Demands group, first publicized yesterday by the New York Times, hasn’t shared its proposal until now. The plan would involve the federal government raising about $1.5 trillion in new revenue and using it to create 25 million new public-sector jobs paying union-level wages. It would put Americans to work building bridges, roads, and affordable housing; providing free public transportation and free university education for all; staffing a single-payer health care system; and pursuing clean-energy research.
“We are talking about direct public employment, where you are working for the government—everything from wielding a shovel to educating engineers,” says Lerner, who drew inspiration from the Depression-era Civil Work and Works Progress Administrations. The 35 members of the Demands Group will vote Tuesday afternoon on how to build support for the plan before taking it up with the General Assembly, the open-ended group that serves as the protest’s governing body.
Given that Occupy Wall Street is the first, largest, and most high-profile of the dozens of occupations around the country, any demand that it adopts could have a major impact on the movement. But it’s not all clear whether Lerner’s demand, or any demand, for that matter, will make the cut.
I would hesitate to say this will be the one demand out of Occupy Wall Street and the 99% Movement, or that one is totally needed. Adbusters, which inspired the first meeting in Zuccotti Park on September 17, wants a global march on a financial transactions tax, or a “Robin Hood tax,” on October 29. There are a lot of ideas out there.
Furthermore, there is some controversy about whether this will get voted on in consensus or through some super-majority measure, and whether the one demand should be made at all. It is a hell of an opening bid, however. You’re talking about something four times the size of the American Jobs Act, to fund direct public works.
And by the way, it’s not all that radical a concept. The Local Jobs for America Act, the AFL-CIO’s big public works plan and Alan Grayson’s new Civilian Conservation Corps all attempted something similar, at different levels, when Democrats were in charge in 2009-2010. And it may even be fully funded!
The other thing that’s clear is that this Congress will not pass such a measure, or anything of value, in the next year. Senate Republicans balked at the AJA, 1/4 the size. They will balk later this week at the state fiscal aid bill for teacher and first responder jobs, at around 1/50 the size. Europe just announced a ban on naked credit default swaps. Byron Dorgan couldn’t even get a vote on that when 59 Democrats were in the Senate. This Congress is captured by corporate interests and uninterested in an actual plan to move the nation forward.
But surely the OWS crowd knows that; it’s part of why they are in the streets. And it’s not to say, as Barney Frank does, that the fault somehow lies with them for not voting for him and his colleagues last year. These are long-held grievances over many years and just about every permutation of Congress. I disagree that “simply being in a public place and voicing your opinion in and of itself doesn’t do anything politically.” It has already changed the national conversation. It has set the table for a bolder agenda in ways that every politician in Washington couldn’t, and in ways that a 15 million-person movement of a new President couldn’t.
Ultimately, the one demand is going to be some version of this: do your job. People are suffering, people are sick to death of the current system. Go make a new one.




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I LOVE this! (Yeah, I’m shouting!)
I envision a sign reading, “I do not want to work to make a corporation rich…I want to work to make my country rich!”
It is righteous to work for your government. The “profit” goes back to the people instead of into a rich cat’s pocket!
Oddly, the above point of view never occurred to me before. Go OWS!
“Go make a new one”
With $ out of politics and elections we could have a new one…
Maybe I missed your point…
LPAC has been putting forth the idea of an New CCC for quite awhile now.
From January 2010, “Real Work vs. Jobs”:
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/13038
Programs like the WPA and the CCC were created specifically as a way to provide relief during the Great Depression. There were critics, and some of the criticism was justified, but by and large the programs were successful.
I think this is an excellent idea.
There are so many things that are totally fucked up in our current system and institutions, i.e., shine a light anywhere and you find more cockroaches, that settling upon any one target for demands is counterproductive. Letting OWS grow organically as it has is the best strategy, because only by achieving overwhelming numbers and popularity via that route can OWS get to a place where it can plausibly demand the kind of sweeping changes that are required to truly make a meaningful difference.
Totally agree. Now is not the time for demands the movement needs to grow. Not sure you saw this but read it is enough to make your blood boil. I hope OWS is made aware of it.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/bank-of-america-deathwatch-moves-risky-derivatives-from-holding-company-to-taxpayer-backstopped-depositors.html#comment-497548
It seems like you are saying the Tea Party was never expected to boil down its message while at the same time pointing out that they did. Smaller government. I do not think it is fair to make this a contest of who can state their demands most simplistically, but there is no reason to claim this would have been a difficult demand for the tea party to meet. In the meantime, I think jobs is a good start for OWS, but they need to be necessary, jobs. Most of these sound good, but there is absolutely no reason to build low income housing. Housing exists. In many cases, it is being torn down.
I agree. Let it grow.
But I love everything that is included in that proto-demand.
And David,
My head says you are right, but my heart insists that OWS might make things happen that we never dreamed of, just a month ago….
Seems to me what the OWS people want will never come Republicans or Democrats. So this might inspire a new party to challenge the legacy parties. The emerging demands, as OWS articulates them, might be popular.
Who knows? Maybe in 2012 there will be OWS-inspired candidates unbeholden to corporate masters. Then voters can sweep away All incumbents, Democratic or Republican.
Maybe. It would be revolutionary. Likely non-violent. (Or OWS might remain outside the political system and electoral politics altogether, pushing changes without touching Washington corruption.)
Bill Black covered that in his interview, first segment after headlines on democracynow.org this morning. Scary stuff, but wtf should we expect. BTW, Black called O’s econ team something like The Wrecking Crew.
Yeah, saw it, blood did boil. But all these govt attempts at market manipulation make my blood boil. We can debate the merits of capitalism endlessly, but one thing that ought to be indisputable is that, even if one believes in capitalism (as I do when the rules are appropriately applied and enforced), there is no excuse for saving entities that become failures. Failure of incompetent entities is just as crucial to the capitalist model as are successes.
The original “tea party,” was a revolt against a corporation, which had a King’s backing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
“The Boston Tea Party was a direct action by colonists in Boston, a town in the British colony of Massachusetts, against the British government and the monopolistic East India Company that controlled all the tea imported into the colonies.
“On December 16, 1773, after officials in Boston refused to return three shiploads of taxed tea to Britain, a group of colonists boarded the ships and destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor. The incident remains an iconic event of American history, and other political protests often refer to it.”
Wall Street and its “Mercantile Exchange,” are being well protected. OWS is a direct response to the obvious inequalities and rigged deals which probably have a greater negative effect on the lives and liberties of Americans today, than the symbolic tossing of tea into Boston Harbor to protest a government protected monopoly in commerce and trade, enjoyed by the East India Tea Co?
One of the aspects of Occupy Wall Street which is a draw for me, as an unemployed person, is that the OWS people know that the economy is not broken, it is structured to be this awful way. I would like to go to OWS because they might give me a job, like mopping the park, which would be more than any politician has done for me. Even though I would not get $ for my work, at least I would have a renewed sense of personal dignity.
That’s a great First Demand. I definitely, um, second it.
There will be more demands later, I’m sure. But “Hire people to do stuff” is great on the principle of first things first.
My petitions and letters to Gillibrand, Schumer, and Gibson here in NY, pleading for them to create public jobs at a living wage (like the WPA or the CCC) fell on deaf ears. O’s jobs proposal was a corporate giveaway and a free labor giveaway to employers. I am ready for a nonviolent revolution.
TomThumb, you are immensely dignified. So proud to know you, through FDL.
One of the main things I love about OWS is that they are the living, breathing embodiment of Scoop Nisker’s immortal line, “If You Don’t Like the News, Go Out and Make Some of Your Own” which was the title of a book he wrote, and also his tag line on his radio show.
Well, good enough. But I think this should have been hashed out before the event. Also two or three pressure points would be optimum rather than one.
I’d add in at least relief for enormous student loans.
In addition to mopping and cleaning, I know how to bake bread and how to build. But the key idea is to find an activity that the OWS need me to do, then to volunteer to do it. The OWS direct action plan is just what I need. The position on job creation of their Demands group is 360 degrees relevant to my situation.
The WPA paid minimum wage for the time, and limited jobs to one person per family so that they could spread the relief out to more families.
Thank you. And bless you Maa8722. My kids are debt slaves right now too because of educational loans.
There’s also nothing wrong with taxing net wealth. Iceland and other Scandinavian countries taxed net wealth before crapitalism loosened their tax programs, very recently.
My grandfather joined the US Merchant Marine and came here from Sweden after his service. He was employed by the WPA building parks in Chicago and raised a happy, healthy family of four children on his wages.
Distilling the ‘message to the monolithic ‘jobs’ is a big mistake.
This is what both sides of the status quo and corporate world are hoping for.
The lack of accountability, and prosecution for the crimes that have inflicted will let the kleptocracy off the hook for vampirizing the economys of the world, ILLEGALLY, and essentially committing crimes against humanity.
Last night the local CBS affiliate had glommed onto the meme that OWS marches (the Albuquerque group has called itself ‘Un-occupy’ in deference to sensitive Native American involvement) are costing taxpayers money. And they interviewed a local jeweller who claimed the marches were affecting her business.
Lady, what affects your business is that there is no one who can afford jewelry these days, or rather if they can they are buying local artisan products. We just had our local art fair, and the participation was the best it has ever been. I was amazed. There is a huge shift already happening and it will go on happening in this coming year and be reflected in the sales shift, in the banking shift, in politics. The latter will be last to fall, like the ossified dead tree with branches that it is, but it will fall.
The Santa Fe OWS march was not covered by the Santa Fe New Mexican. On Thom Hartmann’s show yesterday a caller made this point, and Thom commented rightly that probably the paper is not locally owned. Does not matter one whit. These media outlets are like King Canute telling the tide not to come in.
It’s coming in. Your taxes at work for you, unless you would rather be killing innocents overseas with them.
Nice.
I hope they rethink this “first demand”.
It sounds nice on it’s surface, but doesn’t hint where the first $1.5T comes from. Assuming we had it, paying “union scale wages” to 25M people sounds good too. But who wins that lottery? The average wage is $45k, who gets the new $60k make-work jobs?
Baloney. And who are we to dictate to the doers what more they should be doing? All power to them, and just remember the many who are out there because they have lost homes, lost jobs, lost dignity. They march, and we cannot tell them how they should craft their message. Any message from the heart about the injustices people are suffering is a good and great one. They simply voice that which we have known is wrong with this country, very wrong – and bless their hearts they put it out there through their voices actually embodying clear and irrefutable arguments for what government should be and is not.
Why quibble that this or that is more important? If you think so, go march and carry your sign – you will be welcome. Go take your place democratically within the ranks of dedicated citizens who are telling our government they don’t want handouts to businesses so they can trickle down a few jobs. They want the jobs so they can patronize the businesses! It is all so very simple and it has all been ignored by the neoliberals whose only vision is Dubai.
I don’t have a problem with it – an excellent outreach volley – EVERYONE knows someone struggling w/unemployment and under employment
and you can bet some TradMed dunderhead will ask about how to pay for it – allowing OWS to underscore their message:
juliania and cbl
Please know how much I respect and appreciate your voices.
Looks like this committee is not representative of the whole of OWS.
I apologize for jumping the starting pistol!
Thank you all for your comments.
Here’s a fun one.
If we take everything Gates and Buffett and all the other Fortune 400 have, we’d be close to $1.5T. So let’s do that and give them the first 400 gov. jobs, then let’s give 25M jobs to the 25M currently unemployed. They jump ahead of everyone currently working lower wage jobs.
Now everyone working at McD for $7.50/hr or a factory for $18/hr. is like, “what’s up with that, $30/hr to lean on a shovel?”
Half the 99% resents the other half, and then December 31st happens and the $1.5T has gone to 25M who made $60K last year. Lay them all off, or come up with another $1.5T. But the richest of the rich don’t have anything. Take everything from the next 300,000 and get another $1.5T.
After 2 years, you start taking from millions of the 99% to keep the wheel rolling. And it doesn’t roll for long.
Hi there, I put up a little post about my experience at (Un)Occupy the other day. You are correct. Everyone should go and participate in the democracy that is OWS. It is very compelling to be there. It is what is giving me hope these days.
I noticed on the Occupy Albuquerque page that there has been some dissent about using (Un)Occupy because of the interlopers who have tried to take over the concept and twist it to their 1% purposes.
I will be going back as I have time, and maybe we will meet over there one of these days!
These “demands” sound like the platform of the Democratic Party that they wouldn’t enact when given the numbers to do so in 2008.
I agree with those who see this proposal as a strong first step. It’s about time the discussion gets back to ideas that will really help solve our problems vs. the ever-shrinking window of what’s practical in today political environment so heavily poisoned by the GOP.
And, as for the money, once Congress came up with 700 billion over a weekend in response to a request from Paulson that was essentially written on the back of a napkin, I stopped taking any “We just don’t have the money” talk seriously.
Good on OWS. Shift the discourse back to the left and towards ideas that will help reduce the pain of the lower and middle classes.
Thank you, bgrothus for being one of the courageous! I have family in Albuquerque and no doubt you will be rubbing shoulders with them, my daughter was a potbanger back in the day.
It strikes me that the protodemand of the OWS is forward looking at the very least. With this they anticipate the pending collapse evidenced by David’s other posts and the comments about the latest BofA move – I see it as reflecting what did happen before the Great Depression, when the megarich no longer could bail out the ballooning financial horrors. I’m not an economist so I can’t make any predictions, but then, as I remember the PBS show that outlined what happened, the numbers simply rocketed up into the stratosphere. And that very much looks like what is happening now. There is no real wealth to match what is happening, no matter where it gets distributed or who is supposed to be ‘doing their share’.
Hire people to do stuff is what is going to be a priority when all the shams are stripped away – I support this proto-demand. It mightn’t make sense right now when there are still people clinging to the way things are, but that are is going to rapidly morph into something more resembling basic survival. That may seem too strong but it has happened before, and then government was not so tied to the financial system as it is now. We have to do a siamese twin job that has both sharing vital organs – or, as David says, something new entirely has to form itself, a parallel economy. My post about the jewelry store vs. the art fair might pertain.
Hell yeah !!! Couldn’t agree more
Thank you so much, OmAli. Right back atcha. The community here is fantastic, very approachable, very diverse. We’re all going to disagree sometimes but there are some basic common strengths – e pluribus unum! I really think the way FDL has operated all along is as a founding mother to the ongoing excitements – a mother that doesn’t want to dictate to the offspring, being imperfect as they are, but loving!
Your comment makes my day.
“Your comment makes my day.” Well, in that case, let me enthusiastically, and with total sincerity, second it. Your contributions are of consistently high quality, and much appreciated by me.
yup, ows should make those demands
i could suggest a few more but that will get the ball rolling
as for this:
well, barney, we DID vote for you dem clowns in 08 and that, um, didn’t work so well which is, uh, why ows arose
barney frank has been in washington too long and has become another dc bubble boy
When the economic crash blew up my world a few years ago, I googled the CCC. Turns out the Markets crashed in 1929 and the CCC started in 1933. It is time!
“The legislation and mobilization of the program occurred quite rapidly. Roosevelt made his request to Congress on March 21, 1933; the legislation was submitted to Congress the same day; Congress passed it by voice vote on the 31st; Roosevelt signed it the same day, then issued an executive order on April 5th creating the agency, appointing its director (Fechner), and assigning War Department corps area commanders the task to commence enrollment. The first CCC enrollee was selected 7 April and subsequent lists of unemployed men were supplied by state and local welfare and relief agencies for immediate enrollment. On 17 April the first camp, NF-1, Camp Roosevelt, was established at George Washington National Forest near Luray, Virginia. By 1 July 1933 there were 1,463 working camps with 250,000 junior enrollees (18–25 years of age), 28,000 veterans, 14,000 American Indians, and 25,000 Locally Enrolled (or Experienced) Men (LEM).”
Protests Are a Payday for Security Firms
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Protests-Are-a-Payday-for-nytimes-150438655.html?x=0
Unintended consequences. Not exactly disaster capitalism but very strange how everything gets framed as making money for somebody
another example of stunted imagination and misplaced concern
Shouldn’t you be drowning something in a bath tub?
Thanks, dd.
That was a lil harsh, alan, I apologize. It was my authentic response though if that counts for anything.
The movement is much better of without ANY demands at all.
Making demands puts the people or institution to whom the demands are made, in authority by giving them the power to say “yes” or “no” to the demands.
Don’t ask them for anything at all.
This should be the only demand:
To the banking cartel that runs the world:
1. Formulate an exit strategy
2. Execute the product of Step #1
Then
AUDIT THE FED.
REPEAL THE FEDERAL RESERVE ACT OF 1913.
This isn’t rocket science people. The banking system MUST go. It has placed the do-nothing class in total control as the rest of us drown in debt. They are now OUTSOURCING jobs FROM India to even more impoverished places! (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/business/worldbusiness/25outsource.html) They will not stop until they have driven wages down to ZERO.
Don’t give them a chance,
Our one demand:
LEAVE
No problem. Since you provided no refutation of any substance, the ad hominum has no affect.
It would actually be fitting if this were the one “demand” to come of this occupation.
STOP, DON’T DO IT!
At this point, I think the best strategy is to keep any specific demands to a minimum (confined to discussion groups) with he first goal to create an overall mission statement. Demands like 1.5 trillion for a works program, while admirable is too specific leaving details of funding and implementation open for disagreement and confusion. Why 1.5 trillion? Why not 1.75 trillion or 2 trillion or 1.25 trillion or 3 trillion? Where’s the money come from, etc etc.
The mission statement should include words like democracy, economic justice, and fairness, things everyone can agree on and from which will naturally flow goals and eventually processes, laws and programs, like a modern CCC corps being discussed.
All right, thank you.
alan1tx@31
No one is talking about taking everything from these people and corporations you mention. This is just one example of what I mean as a lack of imagination. And that is giving you benefit of the doubt. It could just as easily be characterized as a red herring or straw man, yes?
Then you go on to say that 25m people employed would be making more than minimum wage paying jobs and I call that misplaced concern.
Refuting your post is shovel ready and perhaps a full time job, so I won’t attempt to tackle it all, I just now went upthread and grabbed the first paragraph after I scrolled. I did not pick and choose which to refute.
Are you just going to shrug it off again?
AND I don’t think you understand OWS to suggest such a thing. Have you participated and if you can’t, have you considered supporting the people who are representing you because there is no way I imagine you are part of the 1%.
This is not how the OWS GA makes decisions nor how the Working Groups work.
As far as I understand it, from piecing reports together, someone proposed a list of demands at a GA, and it was voted down. Then this person and several friends continued meeting, made their own list of proposals, and talked to reporters about it. Then, on Oct 15 when most people were at the march, they proposed and got agreement for establishing their working group at the GA, but still haven’t been telling where their meetings were, and continue to work via the press rather than via the group. I think you should ask Kevin what he knows, because I don’t think front page of FDL should be reporting this in this way.
This is a movement, not an organization. If community and labor and environmental and anti-war etc groups have demands that fit into the principles set forth by the democratic GA process, then the occupiers will continue to march and protest and fight with them. But I disagree with the idea of a demand.
Demand to or from whom? That is the whole problem with our system. Plus, then it just weakens the movement as some won’t agree. The pundits want a demand so they can have the talking heads in suits discuss the merits and ignore the actual protests and people.
And I’ll opine myself, without the suit: even if a miracle happened and this proposal went through, it would mean little in the long term without major changes. Plus, numbers have been crunched over the years for the different aspects: health care or infrastructure or free education, or transportation, etc, and 1.5 trillion won’t cut it. Most of those are at least a trillion each. And, as an example of weakening: I personally would be opposed to infrastructure spending on a massive scale if it doesn’t mandate that it all has to lead towards reduction of greenhouse gases, because otherwise civilization is screwed anyway. I definitely am not going to be arrested defending a demand of roads that wasn’t designed to use less gas and not just make driving more convenient.
And it’s not to say, as Barney Frank does, that the fault somehow lies with them for not voting for him and his colleagues last year.
Well god damn it Barney! Maybe if you, Chris Dodd and Chuck Schumer did your job and cleaned up this mess; and if Obama really cared about fixing this mess MAYBE SOMEONE WOULD VOTED FOR YOUR SORRY ASSES!!!!!!!! Instead you and corrupt bastard buddies took money from the banking lobby…I am sure RM pushed back on good old Barney….
This really pisses me off this listen to this crap….the same old BS Screw you and your damn party!!!
You are quite correct about me not being part of the 1%. I understand that no one is talking about taking everything from the Fortune 400. That’s knid of the point. No one has any idea where to get $1.5T, so I found a place. But that only last’s 1 year. You can only take and take and take so long (as OWS is suggesting the Corps are doing).
I gotta run, but I’m sure we’ll meet again.
There will be no one single demand, and hopefully no demands at all. This movement is building towards directly creating a new system. That is where we need to go…
A net wealth tax? Philosophically I’d agree with you, but in practise didn’t it lead to an underground economy and gold stashed under the mattress rather than a Cadillac?
Very hard to manage such, and I think the idea was revisited in post revolutionary times in France. Meaning it won’t work very well.
I don’t recall that in their history. In Iceland, their tax system on wealth was eliminated and considered unnecessary because the recent financing bubble grew and grew. Imported goods and luxuries increased astronomically. The risk of the debt was outsourced to European depositors and lenders and a sort of ponzi scheme exploded in Iceland’s banks. Assets of the banks were falsely valued in order to create the basis for a picture of solvency, until of course, the whole scheme unwound. But prior to the fishy financialization stuff, wealth taxation was the basis of income inequality moderation within Icelandic society, which in the past, provided many subsidies to workers to support the ‘living wage’ they received. So to sum up a long-winded response, my opinion is that Iceland’s tax system was more fair when wealth was taxed and income inequality was tempered by social subsidies for housing.
More significant than the original post.
Hearing about GA, I was a lil skeptical but experiencing it is another thing entirely.
I’m hoping DD sees what you wrote.
Come on, alan, you have to challenge your thinking a lil more yourself.
You take at least two pot shots at OWS in this discussion alone. I take offense to it though the sane thing is probably just to ignore.
Where does any money come from for anything that the US government spends on bankster socialism and empire? I’m sure you’ll slyly avoid answering again. Not like borrowing money is still at incredibly low interest rates for the federal government. And hasn’t the private Fed’s mission been to print the blues away.
But oh poor us, when average people’s economy requires the investment the money just isn’t there.