Al Jazeera has just broadcast mobile phone footage of Gaddafi’s body dead in the street of his home town Sirte.

Madame Secretary, two days ago:

According to the Associated Press, Clinton told students and others at a town-hall gathering in Tripoli that the U.S. would like to see the Muammar Gaddafi, the toppled Libyan leader dead.

Message received.

Kony’s up next.

And then O will crown himself King of Africa. BTW the Escobar interview I linked to is the best piece I’ve heard on O’s latest 4 warz.

How…convienent.

Boxturtle (Anybody want to bet that there AREN’T contractors with shredders already operating in Libya?)

dead men tell no tales

I’d crown O myself, if that meant he wasn’t running for president here.

Boxturtle (I’d even make a REALLY nice speech)

O’s just accumulating kingly crowns under his aegis as Emperor of the World.

How do you spell that entity that decides life and death g O d.

In the end this could never turn out like Iran after we decided the Shah wasn’t quite good enough for them, could it ?

Libya is a Sarkozy project, so maybe O will declare victory & leave.

Betting against it butcha never know.

I find the spin of this article fascinating. See, the implication is that ‘adult’ people, ‘responsible’ people, will now forget that Obama just conquered a sovereign country, based on lies, wrecking the country and killing probably 100,000 of its people (the NTC claims 30,000, which has to be a massive underestimate, considering their obvious interest in keeping the figure low), assassinating its leadership and installing a proxy regime, and all that is supposed to be swept under the rug, just like the Iraq war, just like the next war (Syria and Iran, no doubt).

And the final, laughable comment takes the cake. Of course, Nato will NEVER leave Libya now. Nato has become a dark cloud of dominion over 2/3 of the globe, and the remaining third is shaking in its boots, having observed Gaddafi’s fate.

Then again, chances are, Gaddafi isn’t dead at all. We’ve seen one PR stunt after another from Nato and its stooges, so who knows? In that case, ‘responsible’ and ‘adult’ people would fervently await his next death, for they know that Republican wars are bad, but Obamian wars are good. You know, at least more good, and that’s more than good enough!

It won’t be as bad as that. Whatever comes out of this mess will likely be:

1) More hostile to Israel.
2) More hostile to the countries that provided Mo with mercs.
3) More friendly to Europe.
4) WAY more friendly towards France.
5) More Friendly to America, but given #1 above…
6) more oil production, with the help of foreign Oil firms.
7) More touristy. Libyan beaches are world class.

Boxturtle (Disclaimer: My predictions haven’t been the best of late)

I’m thinking the oil production increase with the help of foreign oil companies really should have been listed as #1

It’s probably not in good taste to say it, but I couldn’t care less what happens or doesn’t happen to Khadaffi. It’s a one day headline for Sarkozy and Obama.

Yeppers. NATO is the neocolonial global project.

Listen to the interview I linked to in 3 for O’s next 4 warz.

NATO allies in Libya are AQ. So we’ll see who they turn out to be friends with.

Given that this man terrorized his subjects for four decades and that he was behind the bombing of Flight 103 that killed 270 innocent civilians I think that we should take a few moments to recognize that this is good news.

Don’t forget Libya’s water. That’s one of the West’s big resentment of Gadaffi. He spent tens (hundreds?) of billions of dollars of Libya’s own money building tunnels & other infrastructure to tap the gigantic aquifer under Libya, with no by-you-leave from anyone from the West. How DARE he develop & control his country’s own resources. Simply not putupablewith.

Tsk tsk, shame on us. We only killed more innocent Libyans in 6 months than Gaddafi killed in 42 years, and the civil war terror part of the NATO plot hasn’t even begun yet.

Great news!

Assuming the reports are correct, this will be seen as a “win” for the new strategy of air dominance and support plus native rebels as ground troops.

Thus we can expect this to be repeated. It is the new model until it doesn’t work.

Iran.

The end justifies the means! Everybody dance!!!

Boxturtle (Yes, the world is better off without Mo. Conceded)

There are a large number of Libyans who believe that their lives will be better. Gaddafi was an autocrat who terrorized his people.

Yeah, not one desalinization plant built by a foreign multinational. the NERVE of the fellow!

Boxturtle (Just to annoy any GOPers reading: Obama got Mo, Reagan didn’t! BawHaha)

That will be the day when I take the assassination of the leader of a foreign sovereign nation or the least of it’s citizens as “good news”, that’s a mass insanity view point “our killing good their killing bad.”

I did not say the end justifies the means. However, I do think that this is more akin to the events in Tunisia and Egypt. Should the people of Libya have continued to suffer dictatorship?

Reports have come in from the BBC, the Daily Telegraph, and Reuters that the city of Sirte has been largely destroyed by the TNC and NATO. A reporter for the BBC (which has been extremely supportive of its government’s war in Libya) reported the city being “systematically destroyed block-by-block” in a “scorched earth policy”

Link to video

The bitter irony here is that this is precisely the fate that Gadhafi’s regime was supposed to have in store for the rebel capital of Misrata. As in Iraq, the accusations used to justify the invasion are made actual by our side.

The reports indicate that Gaddafi’s end is strikingly similar to the deaths of Mussolini and Ceaușescu. Were their deaths assassination?

I’m sure the survivors will eventually be grateful. Well, most of them. But if you asked Libya if they were willing to put up with more than 100K dead, mostly innocent civilians, to get rid of Mo what do you think the vote would have been?

I think we did more harm than good.

I don’t want to be the worlds cop, we can’t afford to depose every tinpot dictator.

Boxturtle (even if we limit ourselves to those who have natural resources we covet)

It’s not desalinization. It’s a gigantic fresh water aquifer under the country.

The Egyptian revolution is over & lost. Mubarak cronies were successfully installed by U.S.

The way events evolved it appears that the people of Libya initiated the insurgency not the West.

Not sure what the difference between assassination and murder is, but those killings were certainly one or the other.

The proper way to handle those would have been Nuremberg or The Hague.

Boxturtle (The rule of law even applies to scum. At least in my book)

I think your analysis is premature.

Well, after all, you’ve got to destroy the city to save it. It’s what the U.S. does. (optional end snark tag inserted here, as most comments these dark days just have to be snark)

That was totally predictable and those of us who said that in advance are considered inhumanitarians of the worst sort.

By what authority would the Hague have been able to try Ceaușescu? He committed no crimes that would be subject to international jurisdiction.

Before the U.S. became the world’s cop, weren’t dictators disposed of either by their own people, or by Saudis paying them to leave?

My error was worse than that. The ICJ didn’t even exist when Ceaușescu was whacked.

As for authority, well, we tried the Germans after WWII with authority that didn’t even exist at the start of the war. These things can be handled without vigilante justice.

As for crimes, the shooting of unarmed people trying to escape his dictatorship would have been enough. You only need one crime like that to lock someone up forever.

Boxturtle (Spandau prison was kept open until the last inmate died)

I’m not sure that the U.S. is currently playing the role of the world’s cop but the Saudis certainly weren’t paying anyone before oil was discovered. And wasn’t Gaddafi deposed by his own people?

I agree with you that the rule of law is always to be preferred. I do think that sometimes events prevent the best case scenario from being implemented.

While I would have preferred a trial I think we have to recognize that Gaddafi had a rendezvous with his karma.

Idi Amin

ultimately settled in Saudi Arabia, where the Saudi royal family allowed him sanctuary and paid him a generous subsidy in return for his staying out of politics.

The assertion that Gaddafi was deposed by his own people is risible. It was a NATO op from the getgo. Some Libya defector (think Chalabi type) whispered in Sark’s ear. Sark wanted it for a quick pre-reelection victory & for its water & oil resources for France, as part of the neocolonial project that the West has underway.

You missed my point. Before the mid-20th century the Saudis didn’t have the capital to pay for anyone’s relocation. Also that money came from a very cozy relationship with the West, specifically the British and the Americans.

his Karma must be a euphemism for what the west decided.
You know the C4 and electronics found on flight 104 that were supposedly traced back to Gaddafi actually came from a CIA officer who sold them to Libyans?
Al Megrahi was set free because the Scots were going to open the files and re-try him, so Clinton flew in and made the deal to keep the secrets locked up.

So you really are pro-Kony.

On the basis of Pepe Escobar, who couldn’t hit the truth if it were covering him like a parachute. Escobar’s Obama, King of Africa article is so far off it’s ludicrous. China’s commercial deals? You mean like the one that supplies all of the arms to Sudan? Or the one that demands that the Democratic Republic of Congo grind its people to death to hit a fixed return on investment to Chinese government owned investors that independent groups have estimated cannot be met without resorting to slave labor?

Fucking naive in addition to being rude, and pro-child trafficker, pro-child soldier, and pro-crimes against humanity.

The next time you accuse somebody of thinking one American life is worth 500 African ones, you’d better have learned more about Africa.

The way events evolved it appears that the people of Libya initiated the insurgency not the West

Don’t you mean the way events were reported? Reported rather than evolved? We don’t really know how or what or who.

I liked the way the Iraqis handled Sadam. But…..I think Gadhafi HAD other options available to him and yet he mostly chose THIS as his ultimate fate.

For me, the minute I overheard ANYBODY whispering about overthrowing MY dictatorship, me, all the money in the nations treasury that I could load in my jet, my jet, and my Playbody collection would be OFF to Argentina.

Perhaps even more tragic than the lives lost in Libya from this military intervention are the many many more lives that will be destroyed in the future from new armed campaigns that will be based upon the supposed success of this NATO mission.

Future U.S. and European leaders will say – well, sure, Iraq and Afghanistan were disasters, but look at Libya. We’ll model our new war against Country X on that successful NATO campaign.

This is perhaps the most important reason why people on the left needed to oppose this intervention. It emboldens the U.S. in particular to further expand the use of air power the world over, instead of withdrawing and taking stock of the lessons from the Iraq disaster as we should have.

They don’t sell any memoirs either. Gadhafi shoulda had a better agent. He could be sittin pretty on a beach somewhere sippin mojitos if he hadn’t been so damn stubborn.

I don’t usually celebrate over someone’s death, but in this case, I’ll make an exception. See #45 above.

Almost off topic, but has anybody else ever wondered what Q’s drug of choice was? Every time I have seen him for at least the last 20 years, he was massively stoned. I am guessing opium or some really powerful hash.

But if you asked Libya if they were willing to put up with more than 100K dead, mostly innocent civilians, to get rid of Mo what do you think the vote would have been?

The libyans interviewed, for example on Democracy Now – hardly mainstream media – have repeatedly said they are prepared to sacrifice what it takes. That said, i dont know where you got the number from. Its far higher than what ive heard so far. Of course, if Muammar hadnt sent his military against civilians in the first place, not a drop of blood had needed to be shed. The rason Libya did not develop like Egypt and Tunisia is not that Khadaffi was more popular. Rather he was more brutal and unrestrained.

I for one am glad for the libyans, and they seem quite happy themselves from the scenes ive seen so far on the TV. Now they have a chance, lets hope they use it well!

There are many who believe that Gaddafi took the rap for the Pan Am bombing. It wouldn’t surprise me. He was quite a good friend of the U.S./UK not so very long ago, like so many nationalist dictators who became a threat to the oil industry, currency and other important geopolitical resources.

They will use it well – to reward the U.S. and NATO powers for enabling the removal of Qadhafi, that would otherwise have taken years or would never have occurred at all.

You left out “More civil war-ish.”

Well…actually…based on a longform BBC documentary I heard well before the trial over Lockerbie, it looked very iffy that Libya was involved in the bombing of the jet.

I tried at one time to find the documentary, but didn’t succeed. It was on well before I had internet access at home, so prior to 2002-3.

Since I’d heard that I took most of the “evidence” and confessions (needed for Gaddaffi to get back into the West’s good graces) with a truckload of salt.

We here at home are not the only people lied to when our government thinks it appropriate and necessary.

This deserves a diary — will you write one? I recently heard some history that proves your point but can’t pull the details together.

They will use it well – to reward the U.S. and NATO powers for enabling the removal of Qadhafi, that would otherwise have taken years or would never have occurred at all.

I always wanted a magic crystal ball, can i have yours when youre finished?

Does it take a crystal ball to say that a government brought to power as much through the bombs and missiles of the U.S. and NATO’s militaries as through the efforts of its own militias might be more pro-American than not? The business press isn’t wasting any time reporting on the benefits to the oil industry by Gadhafi’s assassination:

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) — Phil Flynn, vice president of research at PBFBest in Chicago, talks about the death of Libya’s Muammar Qaddafi and the impact that will have on oil output from the African nation.

Flynn spoke in a telephone interview today with Bloomberg News.

Qaddafi, whose dictatorship lasted 42 years, died after being captured by forces led by the Misrata Military Council, the group said.

On resumption of oil output:

“Qaddafi has been a dead man walking for weeks. It reduces some of the concern that Libya is going to become another Iraq for getting the oil production back on.”

“It increases the odds that oil production will come back sooner rather than later and it will come back smoothly.”

Link

It does deserve much more attention. Consider it was only four years between the Kosovo intervention and the Iraq invasion (and only a couple between the former and the Afghan invasion). The success of the Kosovo adventure, a war conducted through American air power, helped lay the groundwork for people like Defense Secretary Rumsfeld to argue that the U.S. could go into countries with only light, highly mobile ground forces complemented by high-tech combat systems. And of course, if both the civilian and military leaderships are convinced that regime change can be done on the cheap, they will be more likely to wage such wars in the future.

From this point of view, Libya is the new Kosovo. And just like the latter air-war, this latest intervention is likely to bear children.

This is an extension of the Democrats R2P doctrine strengthened by Rwanda and Kosovo and the Srebrenica massacre, all based on media fabrications, and official half-truths. The only thing they learned from Iraq is don’t let the Neocons run the wars, but that Dems are somehow good at them.

See chapter 3 & 4: Journal of Humanitarian Assistance

I for one am glad for the libyans, and they seem quite happy themselves from the scenes ive seen so far on the TV

TV? Explains so much.

They don’t show the other side much, nor the scenes in the town squares where the rebels lynchings took place which might make you question exactly who NATO is backing in this civil war.

He may have been murdered but his legacy will never die. He was a hero and a marvellous person, his ideas were extraordinary and the way he had gotten Libya developed was astonishing. The memory of Ghadafi will never die, he will always live in my heart. Thank you Sir, you are a martyr.