I continued to be infuriated by the invocation of the summary execution of Moammar Gadhafi as a “foreign policy success” for the Obama Administration. Among the other reasons, it was pretty clear that the Libyan rebels and their allies didn’t solely execute Gadhafi and treat all their other perceived adversaries with dignity and respect. And I think over the next several months, stories like this will become more and more familiar.
The bodies of 53 Gaddafi loyalists have been found at a hotel in the Libyan city of Sirte after apparently being executed, a human rights group says.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) said the victims – some of whom had their hands bound – died about a week ago.
It is the latest accusation of atrocities in Libya committed by both sides during the eight-month conflict.
Libya’s new rulers have denied any involvement in abuses and have urged Libyans to forego reprisal attacks.
The leadership is probably not directly involved in these kinds of atrocities, but they surely have shown little ability to control them. This is not the first evidence we have. Amnesty International wrote a long report about detainee abuse in Libya, including the detention without trial of innocents who happen to have a dark skin color (the assumption being that black Africans were foreign collaborators with Gadhafi). Again, the TransNational Council, (TNC) Libya’s interim government, was not targeted as the main perpetrator of the abuses, but they failed to oversee the forces doing the illegal detentions, beatings and murder. And there have been other reports of mass graves in Sirte, even before the liberation.
Just the fact that Gadhafi’s body lay in cold storage in a meat store in Misrata as a public display is evidence that the interim Libyan government doesn’t have a deep interest in human rights. Outside of a few appeals, the government is doing almost nothing to stop reprisals against Gadhafi loyalists that have clearly resulted in these kinds of atrocities. Replacing a brutal government with a government that turns a blind eye to brutality doesn’t really count as a success, in my book.
The new Libya will not exactly be a beacon for women’s rights, either:
Mr Abdul Jalil said the new Libya would take Islamic law as its foundation. Interest for bank loans would be capped, he said, and restrictions on the number of wives Libyan men could take would be lifted.
The President, in his remarks on the death of Gadhafi, appealed to the Libyan people to respect the human rights of all their fellow citizens. Somehow, if there’s money to be made, I don’t think this will be a huge obstacle for the country as a whole. Maybe there will be a new tyrant that some Senator can spend an interesting night with.
The point here is that it’s way too early in Libya’s transition to be shouting about victories. Especially with the evidence that is coming out.
UPDATE: The other dangerous thing about the “successful” action in Libya is that it spurs warmongers to press to repeat that success:
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) Sunday called on the United States to consider military action in Syria, where president Bashir al-Assad’s regime has used violence against anti-government protesters seeking democratic reforms.
“Now that military operations in Libya are ending, there will be renewed focus on what practical military options might be considered to protect civilian lives in Syria,” said McCain, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Jordan.
“The Assad regime has spilled too much blood to stay in power. Its days are numbered, but it will use those days to murder more of its own people,” he said. “In this way, there is no moral distinction whatsoever between the case of Syria and that of Libya. The question is, what can be done about it?”




48 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
But but but didn’t we save all those people that Gaddafi was preconvicted of going to massacre.
What’s the answer then, creative bumper stickers in the mold of “Save Tibet!”?
I’m not advocating military force against Syria, but let’s face it, tyrants aren’t exactly known for their willingness to step down peacefully.
Yeah, esp the tyrants running the U.S. into the ground.
It’s a good thing the U.S. bombed Libya to prevent this from happening.
The Magnificent Mindless ‘Merican Murder Machine sure is efficient as well as being magnificent.
eCAHN in #4 we like blowing up things a little less than mass murder but now the “wars” seem to require a sacrificial city . Seems the micro fine Depleted uranium gets picked up and blown all around the world including over the exceptional source country, what goes around comes around.
We’re so blessed to have a Senator like John McCain. Humble War Hero, Smart, Insightful, Thoughtful, Kind.
Listens with empathy and forgiveness in his cold black heart.
What sort of bastard will replace him when he’s gone?
Violence is not the answer.
This kind of thing continues as long as it is taken as acceptable. How is this different from bin Ladin on the order of our president and as well the thousands, many innocents assassinated by US drones ?
“A boy with a gun, now a man with a gun and his wife and children with guns.” Rick Perry.
I certainly am not apologizing for the violence of any rebel group in Libya or elsewhere, however, I am left here to ask the qusetion: “Well, what did any of you think WAS GOING to happen?”
Saddam Hussein was, objectively, hanged by an angry mob, once the American system imprisoning (and protecting!) him in Iraq turned him over to the Iraqis. The video of his hanging showed as much.
Ghaddafi, likewise, was dragged into the street by an angry mob and shot, probably after all sorts of abuses.
What did anyone think was going to happen through toppling governments headed by dictators? Normally the dictator captured by the angry rebels is going to face a bad end.
I can understand the sense of disgust, just not the apparent sense of shock.
I’m waiting for the humanitarian interventionalists to show up with their push back.
And I’m sure that there was NO collateral damage in Sirte.
I continued to be infuriated by the invocation of the summary execution of Moammar Gadhafi as a “foreign policy success” for the Obama Administration.
Thank you for this statement. I’m saddened and disgusted by the fact that our politicians and media are celebrating the deaths of others. Aside from the basic ethical reasons to refrain from this type of behavior, it seems that we have learned nothing about blowback.
I remember that one of the arguments used against assisting the Libyan rebels was: “Well then why aren’t we invading Syria? Assad’s much nastier!”
And in fact calls for increased US pressure on Syria have been issued for months now. Right now, McCain’s statement could be taken as a signal to Assad that everything is on the table, and thus might be counted as part of that pressure.
And I’d also like to remind everyone that the atrocity count doesn’t exactly all belong to one side: http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/10/20/qaddafi-files
As for the actions of the Libyan rebels, what I’m seeing reminds me more of the reaction of the Italian resistance when Mussolini was overthrown and killed, and his body hung upside-down and publicly displayed with that of his mistress, Clara Petacci. But of course, that was OK since it was “good” (read: European) people who killed and displayed the hated dictator.
So what’s the final score? Which side killed more innocents?
Joe Biden himself said there was no loss of life, why wouldn’t i believe him ? Looking at the city you showed I can’t imagine any loss of life /s
#2 is blowing smoke up your pant leg and telling you it’s sunshine.
I think Biden meant U.S. loss of life. No others count.
I personally can’t wait for some savior country to invade the U.S. and relieve us of our hated dictator.
If Ghadaffi kept control of his people and kept the oil flowing to Italy and France etc. we would not have intervened. Humanitarian motives are usually last on the list and the evidence is all around.
Jeebus –
What a pathetic exercise in false moral equivalence.
Yes, a few dozen (perhaps more) Gaddafi fighters have been executed.
It is rare in such brutal hand to hand fighting that such does not happen.
Happened in Iraq. Happened in Vietnam. Happened in Korea.
Happened on every front in WWII. Definitely happened in Spanish Civil War.
As for the summary execution of Gaddafi – -
I recall that Mussolini and his party were strung up in Milan for all to see.
And Italy emerged from WWII relatively pluralistic and democratic.
In France, the collaboratrices had their heads shaved.
And France ended up pretty democratic and open.
As for Gaddafi’s intentions in February – he made them clear.
He was going to exterminate all the “rats” in Benghazi.
Exterminationist rhetoric has been used before –
In Rwanda, in Cambodia, and most famously in Nazi Germany.
In addition, Gaddafi had the history to show he meant what he said.
Would NATO members have intervened for the people of Tunesia – sans oil?
I highly doubt it. NATO’s motives are far from benign.
But in an imperfect world – these results are preferable to a Gaddafi victory.
Trust me, had it have been the other way around –
the bloodshed would have been immense.
Remind me, when was the last time we established a healthy democracy in the developing world by overthrowing a tyrant?
Bill Daley, is that you?
I understood that but that’s not what he said, he said no lives were lost without any qualifiers .
Yes, I’m aware of that. I just couldn’t resist making the irony explicit.
Inquiring minds also want to know how the new U.S.-AQ allies are going to work out.
If we used deadly chemicals, like we are want to do, D U and the others the death count won’t be completed for a few generations. Death and destruction don’t stop at the victory party, it’s just the latest chapter.
Yeah, somehow I knew the Nazis would be invoked. Didn’t Godwin formulate his famous internet Law based on just such arguments as this?
But, hey, Gaddafi = Mussolini, end of argument, I guess? No need to worry about the consequences of US actions.
DU sounds like just the thing to have on the beautiful sandy beaches that are going to be developed by the French. I’ll betcha it serves as sunscreen.
The American ambassador in Syria has been recalled. I imagine the drones are getting loaded right now.
Geez, Syria, Iran, Iran, Syria. These executive decisions are so hard to make.
How does one ever tell this story without highlighting our Secretary of State’s response to news of a sovereign nation’s leader being murdered?
Isn’t it a SoS’s job to be diplomatic?
We apparently are the world’s protector. John McCain is our patron saint who points us in the right direction. Never mind the killing. It’s all good you know. But fuck the unemployed, they deserved all they got.
When was the last time a U.S. SoS was diplomatic. Or a U.S. Atty General enforced the law.
When you write something like you “continue to be infuriated” I really do appreciate that you are putting it into some kind of personal context.
Everything this President does is labeled success, dd. It’s more than a pattern and some kind of marketing gimmick.
There are still people who believe the D’s do it better. I’m not one of them so I absolutely take your point. The last two were disgraces as well and I really wasn’t awake to all the misdeeds of the miscreants who preceded them in that position so I will have to go with I don’t know.
Similar response for AG’s as well.
Did Condi or Colin ever say anything quite so heinous? I recall Albright saying something similarly bloodthirsty but without Clinton’s sense of gallows humor.
I’ll just dip into history for a couple of samples: Nixon’s John Mitchell convicted during Watergate. Dulles Bros. under Ike, one head of CIA the other SoS. Responsible for overthrow of Arbenz & Mossedeq.
Any good ones come to mind?
Nice!
Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo
Hillary Clinton’s reaction to Gadhafi’s brutal rape, torture, and murder is emblematic of our entire ruling class. Our society is presided over by a gang of thugs that just happens to have more guns, aircraft carriers, and robot bombers than our supposed enemies.
The Libya rebels have repeatedly revealed their true character. They have committed pogroms against Black Africans on account of false rumors and unconcealed racism, demanded ever increasing numbers of NATO bombs rain upon their own country, destroyed the city of Sirte, and have tortured and summarily executed prisoners of war.
In little more than half a year the Libyan war has recapitulated the horrors of Iraq despite all the apologetics for military intervention made by American ex-liberals. Libya was supposed to be different. It wasn’t.
There can be no support for any major American leader, whether in Washington, Wall Street, or in our corporate boardrooms until this nation’s crimes have ended and the perpetrators brought to justice.
That’s actually false.
He’s left the country due to concerns about his safety. The State Department was quite explicit that he had not been withdrawn. But given the other levels of factuality here, I guess your statement is about at par.
Meanwhile, Condi Rice of all people is declaring victory (in a war against the same brutal dictator she cozied up to a mere 3 years ago). The Bush ‘freedom agenda’ won, she says. The real win for the Bushies is that the Bush Doctrine of waging unconstitutional wars of aggression has become accepted as bipartisan foreign policy.
Rice said something about “birth pangs” in the Middle East when Israel was bombing Lebanon to rubble. That was pretty awful.
I think David, you should report either the latest reports of violations, or report all reports of violations, one or the other. To report the latest violations, and then cherry pick the previous reports makes it look very much like, counter to your quoted passage, there has been lopsided violation on the part of the rebels.
In fact, reports have been about violations on both sides: 1230 found in a mass grave executed by the Qaddafi side near Tripoli, 53 in mass grave that you report here executed by the rebels, rapes and other atrocities executed by the Qaddafi side in Misrata, rounding up and some reports of execution of blacks by the rebel side near the Niger border, etc.
Just look to your reporting and either document the present or present a full list if you know how. Somehow, I’m doubting you know how. Most forensic teams are both prefacing their reports and concluding their reports with caveats, and in the case of Qaddafi himself, the TNC announced an investigation today, perhaps too late for your report.
Allegations that the mainstream media aren’t covering violations are way off, for instance Greenwald asserted that the media were condemning people who weren’t jubilant about the manner of his death, but the NYT covered the fact that his alleged surrender prior to his death was a violation on their front page.
A tribunal, if one will be convened, is a very long ways away, they aren’t convened if the country itself feels it can handle the investigation anyway, and there are at least AI, PHR, HRW, ICRC, UNHCHR, and probably other organizations in there with forensic teams.
I do certainly hope that many of you are never in harm’s way. And that the litmus tests you so eagerly apply are never applied to you. Some of the responses here are precisely why the left is held in such utter contempt. Kitty Genovese writ large.
That’s one of the most egregious forms of false equivalency I’ve ever seen.
So what? These things happen in every revolution and civil war. So Gaddafi’s body was put on display for awhile. At least it was in a freezer under sanitary conditions, as opposed to simply putting his head on a pole in the tradition of my ancestors.
As far as massacring his supporters, they would have done the same thing to the rebels had they won. In fact, they probably HAD. Again, so what?
During the run-up/ramping up of the Humanitarians Humanitarian R2P Attack on Libya it was informative to see here at FDL how the D-Bots got behind Barack Obama(d) and Hillary Clinton(d) and for Shock And Awe on Libya.
Evidently Obama and Clinton can do what the D-Bots and their more zealous D friends — the O-Bots — would curse,mock and surely not support G.W. Bush, R.B.Cheney, C. Rice, D. Rumsfeld etc. who did to Iraq what Libya just got.
The substantial reasoning (???) that informs/supports this being the D’s can do it because…well…because…..because they are D’s and not R’s.
FDL archives still hold record of those who were Big Cheerleaders here at FDL for a Humanitarian NFZ/R2P Attack on Libya. They wanted it real bad.
Inability to sift the propaganda WashingtonDC,Paris and London catapulted to soften up Libya for re-colonization revealed now in full within aftermath of what has now fallen on Libya. See eCAHNomics comments above.
Gaddafi was the convenient tool/prop used to ramp up Humanitarian Attak/War on Libya. Very convenient prop for WashingtonDC,Paris and London. Doing Shock And Awe Conquest and calling it Humanitarian War is brilliant propaganda and likely prototype for Iran Attack.
It is doubtful these so called “Libyan Rebels” were not the spawn of CIA/European black ops agitators done on covert/overt cause and effect.
We all now will get to see who is going to run Libya now and who the carpetbaggers are and how Libya looks to Libyans five years from today.
The D-Bots and O-Bots lose political credibility (lots) when they line up to support a Obama D run WH to do what they would have most assuredly condemned a Bush/Cheney R run WH for doing. The genius of a DINO run WH?
Saddest part of this being the D-Bots do not / can not see it.
If I were an Iranian I would be very alarmed by these American and European Humanitarians.
See Iraq. See Libya. A general question now posed — Who are the real Hitlerians of this early 21st century? The real smash and grab guys?
You have the luxury to Monday morning quarterback from some place other than Benghazi. Do you doubt for a moment what would have happened?
Sure, the U.S., Britain, and France had less than humanitarian motives – - but it does not change the statements that Gaddafi made about his plans for the people of Benghazi nor his history of mass slaughter of opponents.
The problem with the left for the past century has been its naivity in the face of exterminationist regimes. Western leftists denied the Holodomor – none worse than Walter Duranty’s NYT denial pieces. They celebrated the Cultural Revolution – celebrated in the ever-present Warhol images of Chairman Mao. They admired the Khmer Rouge experiment – that is until Marxist writer Malcolm Caldwell was murdered on his guided tour of Democratic Kampuchea.
Of course, if the genocidal regime happened to be of the right-wing variety, the left generally supported armed intervention – such as with the Spanish Civil War or against the Guatemalan regime of Rios Montt.
All of the regimes listed above – leftist or rightist – slaughtered their opponents. They should all be condemned. The fact that Gaddafi used tired anti-colonial rhetoric to deflect attention does not mitigate the basic underlying violence upon which his regime was based. Of course, to pattern, many here buy it.
The selective myopia of the left over the past century is a self-indictment.
Now the difficult part begins. No regime in Libya will magically start viewing human rights as paramount. It takes time and a lot of effort, both domestic and international, to establish norms within a community that has forever lived without them. My hope here is that people don’t become disillusioned with Libya, Egypt, et al. because they had the mistaken image that everything would be rainbows after regime change.
My criticism here is that it would unreasonable to expect Libyans to capture Gadhafi and try him the ICC, which is the idealistic way of doing things. (I only wish the world worked this way.) In order to capture Gadhafi and try him, you would have to have a concerted effort, boots-on-the-ground kind of effort, from the United States, France, or whoever. This was ruled out by all sides. So I don’t think this is a fair criticism. The actors here were constrained domestically and internationally in what they were able to do. Summary execution was always the most likely outcome, wasn’t it?
(I base this off of the assumption that you wouldn’t have wanted a full-scale invasion, David. I haven’t read everything you’ve written on Libya, so maybe at one point you did call for that.)