In a way, this primal scream from Thomas L. Day, a former member of Jerry Sandusky’s Second Mile foundation, is a familiar one from a generational standpoint. But it connects so much to the dominant theme of this era – the loss of faith in institutions – that it takes on a crucial significance.
I’m 31, an Iraq war veteran, a Penn State graduate, a Catholic, a native of State College, acquaintance of Jerry Sandusky’s, and a product of his Second Mile foundation.
And I have fully lost faith in the leadership of my parents’ generation.
Day was never a victim of Sandusky’s, though he came up through Second Mile. He has only positive words for the foundation. The negative words he reserves for an entire generation of leaders, who have “failed us, over and over and over again.”
This kind of sentiment is perhaps to be expected from a State College native who sees the hash that those leaders have made of his hometown. But he extends the rationale well beyond sex abuse and coverup.
Think of the world our parents’ generation inherited. They inherited a country of boundless economic prosperity and the highest admiration overseas, produced by the hands of their mothers and fathers. They were safe. For most, they were endowed opportunities to succeed, to prosper, and build on their parents’ work.
For those of us in our 20s and early 30s, this is not the world we are inheriting.
He goes on, writing about being told to go shopping after 9-11, about Tom DeLay saying that “nothing is more important in the face of a war than cutting taxes,” about the false premise of Iraq, about the Catholic church’s own sex abuse scandal. About infrastructure woes and high unemployment and a failure to fight “the fortunate and entrenched interests on K Street and Wall Street.” Day writes, “This failure of a generation is as true in the halls of Congress as it is at Penn State.”
The Penn State scandal doesn’t have to connect to this. But it is a symbol of that complete failure of elites and institutions we’ve seen in at least the past decade. There is a connective tissue there. The question is what the newer generation, the backbone of the Occupy movement, the majority of enlistees in our adventures abroad, a generation poised to do worse than its parents and experiencing record high unemployment currently, plans to do about it.




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I can relate to Mr. Day’s lament. As I approach my fiftieth birthday, I have spent my life at the tail end of the baby boom generation. Arriving at every new stage of my life, I have found the benefits enjoyed by the head of my generation used up and decaying. From the lack of continued infrastructure development, to deteriorating schools, to ever decreasing student loan opportunities and in the end, stuck behind them on the corporate ladder.
Through it all, there has been the pervasive attitude of ‘I’ve got mine, screw you.’ from this generation that had an extremely high standard of living handed to them. I have seen them enjoy the community swimming pool, only to grow up and build their own pools and then close the community pool because they don’t want to fund it.
And yes, I have experienced the moral decay of this, the first, ME generation.
Penn State scandal: Judge had ties to Jerry Sandusky charity
“Deadspin said: Although “prosecutors requested $500,000 bail and that Sandusky be required to wear a leg monitor,” Judge Leslie Dutchcot ordered Sandusky freed on $100,000 unsecured bail. She ordered that he “pay nothing unless he failed to show up for a court hearing.”
. . .
“Judge Dutchcot’s attorney profile with Goodall & Yurchak lists her volunteer work with the Second Mile charity.”
More.
“Judge had ties to Jerry Sandusky charity”
Talk about connective tissue. Academic administration is right in the middle of it, from the fucked up economy to the good ol crony network to covering up child sex predators.
In a perverse way it is the issue progressives share with many of the grass of the Tea Party.
We really need, in addition to structural changes, good intellectual scholarship exposing the differences between the institutional cultures, even legally, operating as people and real people. I have no solutions as to how to balance the conflicting motivations and actions but we need to take advantage of both community and individual enterprises and even morality. Of course that is what the designers of our government first set out to do. It is a work in progress.
Absolutely superb and honst assessment, Thomas L. Day, thank you.
And I thank you, David Dayen, for sharing it with this community.
The world, now, belongs, and for some considerable time, has belonged to Mr. Day, his cohort and those who are younger … We, of generations older, are but guests in their world, it would behoove us to behave accordingly.
DW
Simply couldn’t agree more. And what happened to the rich? They used to be content with their opulence, largesse and gated communities, but somewhere along the way that was no longer enough.
Now it’s like most of them are determined to turn 90% of America into a welfare state.
9-11 led to total mass psychosis and until we confront that operation we will never heal.
We sent him off to kill in a lie and his Religion had no effect either.
We had many chances to turn away from this Iran contra, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1 but we had no honest leaders.
Which makes o the consummate liar to “lead” us.
The Boomers seem to be they guys responsible for the moral and ethical erosion of the country.
At least the Greatest Generation seemed to be aware that torture was reprehensible and indefensible, that siphoning all the capital in the country to benefit the wealthy and connected was not the best plan, that the middle class was worth growing with decent wages and benefits, etc.
The Boomers epitomize the I Got Mine, amoral if not completely immoral ethos best depicted by Oliver Stones Wall Street. An entire generation that decided to abandon ethical and moral imperatives in favor of bumper stickers that read “He who dies with the most toys wins.”
I don’t blame the Penn State student quoted in the article. Hopefully his generation will redirect us back to an era of hard work, shared prosperity, and a society that might be judged positively in light of how the least powerful (the poor, the elderly, the ill, the uneducated, the unemployed) are supported. I also hope his generation is smart enough to realize that economies based on betting on outcomes as opposed to providing real value through actual goods and services are nothing but parasitic illusions doomed to collapse.
Is there anything we can do? Fighting the hierarchy is difficult and dangerous if you fight really hard. There may come a time when people who threaten torches and pitchforks pick them up, but we’re nowhere near that. The trouble, my friends, is not with the stars but with us. We’re all liberals here even when someone suggests someone gets banned and opposing points of view are scorned as trolls. We call it moderating, but it is censorship. Some posts, like selling sneaks, should be deleted (I don’t know how they get past the moderators) but IMHO just about everything is OK with me. It’s not OK with you? What’s your problem? Can we discuss it? Not here.
We are in extremely deep doo doo and all we do is post angry comments. Can we discuss that? Not here. So you say why don’t I create a blog I want? I would try if I could find someone to join me. For all our reporting of what we eat and what music we listen to, we don’t trust each other. Not for serious business. That’s probably where we should start. I doubt anyone is interested in that either. So rant on. I’ll come in now and then with my rant until perhaps I get banned.
Well, Barack Obama was damn sure elected to “do better”, and we gave him the congress with which to do it. That he is an abject failure is reason enough to not reward him with another chance to inflict more of the same on us.
DDay, thanks.
Big Ten removes Paterno’s name from trophy
i am thinking it happened when they trained us to “duck and cover” in the hallways of our elementary schools…….we learned that today was it, tomorrow was taken away by the threat of nuclear incineration…..we never recovered……..
So i wonder if hes also an obama/dem supporter and apologist? The generation that the “leaders” of this country come from have shown for a long time now that they simply dont care. They got theres and thats it. And if you happen to be one of their children or a child of a wealthy person then god must like you. If not then you can pretty much kiss their ass as far as they are concerned. Its sad really and its doubtful anything is going to change any time soon.
Granted, the Baby Boomers have done a terrible job of passing down the national inheritance to the next generation. We shouldn’t, however, grant a pass to the generation that preceded them, the so-called “Greatest Generation.” This was the generation whose leaders conceived the Vietnam War, which eviscerated American idealism and sent the Baby Boomers into combat and death by the tens of thousands. This was a war from which our country has never recovered. Also, remember that, although it is meaningful in historical terms to speak of a “generation” in terms of its overall contribution and attitudes, a generation is made up of individuals who may have diametrically opposite characteristics to most of their peer group. In the case of the Baby Boomers, so many of the most noble were grieviously injured either physically or spiritually, or both, by Vietnam and its domestic repercussions.
I’m an aging Baby Boomer, and yes, the 1% of the post 1946 generation is leaving behind a deep pile of crap for the next generation to clean up. This generation is also the one who has seen the middle class decimated in the last 30 years. Millions of working people between the ages of 50 to 65 have seen their wages stagnate, pensions disappear and their jobs outsourced. They constitute the bulk of the 99ers, who can’t find employment. Before we indict an entire generation, just be mindful that a small group has always been around to screw us all. It’s appropriate that the poster boy for this generation’s excesses, Willard Romney, is likely to be the GOP nominee. His defeat will be another turned chapter in the historical record.
I think it doesn’t have a lot to do with generations, but with corporations.
The fault lies not only with the Boomer generation, of which I am a late arriving member. It also rightly belongs to the so-called “greatest generation,” the one that gladly built a global empire, that created a permanent security-surveillance apparatus, that began the deindustrialization of the economy, that expanded and then contracted the welfare state, etc. The Boomers largely took their place in the world they found emerging around them. Only the 68ers rejected that world. These left critics were mocked, of course. They were told to join the Democratic Party, the Party of Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, etc. That Party was in no way a principled opponent of the conservative turn in American politics. It quickly accommodated itself to the reactionaries whenever necessary.
I felt the same as Mr. Day — 45 years ago.
Older Americans are 47 times richer than young
http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/07/news/economy/wealth_gap_age/index.htm
Kind of looks like a generation thing.
MY generation, Thomas L. Day’s generation, is OCCUPYING EVERYWHERE.
No need to post angry comments anymore (for any of us), my friend. Head down to your local GA, get on the stack, raise your voice, and start changing the world.
We are what we’ve been waiting for. We’ve sat back on this blog for yours and griped about things, bickered with each other, and tried (rather ineffectively, with a few exceptions) to change the course of history. Now we have a genuine opportunity.
I’ll be at Occupy Austin tonight with at least 4 other Firedogs distributing supplies and helping them plan for winter. I’m doing my part, now that the Revolution is on the horizon. What are you doing to effect the change you want to see?
i am 62, a proud draft dodger…1s….i was raised hating nazis, i read about and saw pictures of human bodies stacked up like cordwood in places like birkenau auschwitz treblinka, etc. i lived on movies showing nazis asking for :”papers please”…and then………..vietnam……..all over the tv…..showing the same sick things,,,,,,,but, this time it was americans doing it……..i was sick to my heart, many of us were, what in the hell were we doing being “nazis” well we raised hell about it, they killed our hopes…..like kennedy, king kennedy….especially bobby, and they called us traitors for not wanting to be nazis…….then they lined up in national guard uniforms, kneeled down took aim and killed four young college students ……..fuck man….this is part of why so many of my faux hippie friends crossed the line to greed………
Those numbers just happen to coincide with huge shifts in the way corporations do business, enabled by deregulation. ECahn is right, as are you. Two sides of the same coin.
I was referring to root cause, not current status.
The whole nexus of the ways that they have infiltrated govt and other institutions. Deregulation is an important one, but corp takeover of colleges, think tanks, etc. Boomers were still able to accumulate as this was going on, but younger generations arrived after it was too far underway to buck it.
The guys that went to Vietnam and Iraq are our “hero” veterans when Constitutionally and Geneva Convention speaking they are war criminals.
And old dude you were not a draft dodger rather a patriot because there was no declaration of war against Vietnam the draft was in fact unconstitutional. I would go being # 6 in the draft because it involved KILLING for profit nothing about defense.
DW and all Fire Dogs
After this Morning’s Swim, I went to read a bit and in the opening of a book I just started were FDR’s words from his first Inaugural Address:
Agreed. I remember, as a child and teen in the 1950s and 1960s, how condescendingly and cruelly many Greatest Generation parents acted to young people who were in any way non-conformist or “different” or, in their eyes, naively idealistic. These children were deliberately made to feel themselves as outcasts, unfortunately with the connivance of a great many of their Baby Boomer peers. This was a time of harshly enforced social conformity. (Which is why the late 1960s counterculture reaction was so extreme, and also why the counterculture itself had such strong conformist elements.)
We have lost our moral compass and that can be traced perfectly back to the Reagan years when the truth didn’t matter. It gets worse every day and we have to at the least go back to a time when Americans cared about each other. Greed and indifference have overwhelmed us and lead to the fix we are in now. OWS is a light shining right on our problems and we need to help those mostly young people in every way we can. WE OWE THEM.
Sweet and to the point. I really dislike how certain generations are given titles by the lazy MSM-
“The Greatest Generation”, “The Baby Boomers”, Generation X”. None of this means anything. The same small group is always in power and screws us all equally. I hate to admit it, but should some of the people who are part of the OWS movement get a chance to become an investment banker and/or make a bundle in trading in derivatives,they’ll jump at the chance.
Like always one has to look at the basic data, which in this case comes from the Pew center.
In the exact same report, there is a chapter regarding income, age and unemployment, where seniors suffer the most income drop and large unemployment rates and a growing participation rate in poverty.
That data they used comes from the US Census. The Net Wealth piece they made comes from their own data, and the 2 positions are clearly contradictory.
I’ll have a post up later today about income inequality where the rates are visualized from 1967 to 2010 all in 2010 adjusted dollars. The problem is clearly income cohorts, not age cohorts.
There is very good reasons why it’s the 99% movement. It’s top-down that’s the problem, not old-young.
I’m another old dude at 69. Was attending college on the other side of Ohio when the American armed forces shot those unarmed protestors, killing 4 of us. All I could say in immediate response was “Oh God, please let it not be in vain.” But the American forces keep on keepin’ on.
and so. Who was the drummer for those students stomping their feet and throwing a tantrum about dumping their football guru? Gotta be some lessons to learn somewhere in all this I hope.
Does not seem right to condemn a whole generation because this happened? Is there not “problems” with each generation? when viewed by the younger or older generation?
A better discussion is what drives these behaviors? Greed? Hate? Fear? and why?
But they’ll wear white sox.
I saw Margin Call last Wednesday. There’s a 23-year-old character in it who wears white sox with his suit & Gucci loafers. So I asked a friend why, and she informed me that younguns go along with what they have to do to get ahead on Wall St., but show their nonconformity by wearing white sox.
Enuf’ said.
True, a blanket condemnation of any generation will be inaccurate. I am a late Boomer myself and I constantly wonder, how did that generation which protested Viet Nam and wanted to buy the world a Coke when they were young, turn into the grasping, greedy McMansion occupiers they became later?
It’s because there was a turning point when Ronald Reagan came into office where looking out for number 1 became the official zeitgeist. Media consolidation and the loss of real journalism also played a part. Congressional corruption is another brick. When adults (not 14 year-olds) can tell you in all seriousness that they admire Ayn Rand and her “works” is yet another. Objectivism is just a philosophy(?)of self-interest trumping societal well-being.
How is it possible to have a major political party where the Presidential contenders raise their hands to reject evolution and cheerlead for torture?
How can we possibly be so collectively inane as a country?
Anyone who thinks that all we do is rant and share recipes hasn’t really read this thread. This was a good discussion, with interesting questions and postulations.
Good Dogs!
Look forward to your post.
As a baby-boomer who got all the best of the public services available to us from the late 40s through the mid-70s I can’t agree more with this post. It has been very dispiriting to see all this unfold. There are a lot of factors in play, but here is one that I think people have missed. The period between 1945 and 1970/75 was one of unprecedented upward social mobility for ordinary people, myself included. If you had talent and just a bit of luck you could move from working class to upper middle class simply by working reasonably hard. When I graduated from college in 1964 nearly every one I knew had three or four job offers. A few years later when I graduated from Yale it was the same for academic positions, which at that time was a major pathway for upward social mobility.
But that mobility came at a cost. One cost, which got worse over time was that individuals had to work harder to get a claim on the shrinking number of positions that hit the economy after 1973. The other factor was geographic mobility. To move up you had to move out. People who might have stayed home to be leaders in their communities — like my uneducated mother who was President of the PTA and my uneducated father who was president of a local community improvement association–moved to other places to pursue their careers. This is, I think, a peculiarly American trait and goes back a long way in our history. But it meant that a lot of the potential leadership was lost at the local level, and pretty much submerged at higher levels.
And so we get a country in which, without wanting it, pretty much everyone is out for himself.
Yes.
“It’s top-down …”
THAT is THE truth, Kelly.
DW
Its not generational. Reagan was no boomer, he and his ilk were Greatest Generation anti FDR warriors.
The world of opportunity and prosperity Thomas refers to was built from the ruins of the Depression by people who decided to use the power of government to actually do things for We The People.
This system provides a higher standard of living for all, as evident in the Scandanivian countries.
It worked pretty well here, until the Conservative De-Regulators of all generations took over.
That’s the real difference.
Tragically our motto is now In God We Trust Because We Can’t Afford Health Care, Education, Infrastructure, Employment, Hope, Change or Anything Else.
As a teenager, I was told that I might need to leave home when I began to question not only my religion (Catholic!) but also the existence of God. I also learned about the nature of authority from a Nun’s gratuitous slap. I could also watch one perspective on the Vietnam War during dinner. And I could watch the police and National Guard battle it out with civil rights and antiwar protesters while often hearing the N-word spoken in my hometown, an all-Caucasian enclave that spawned a local chapter of the KKK.
America was never great. “It was never America to me,” as Langston Hughes stated.
Haven’t there been faux generation wars for all of recorded history? I’m trying to recall some Plato quote to that effect.
What a lot of bull… the guy who seems to have been able to help the most, but didn’t, was 28 at the time. The problems we are having are definitely NOT generational. They are pervasive to all of society and its rotting from within. Sorry to be so cynical, but I think that is what part of the reason the Occupy WS movement gets people’s interest. They know things have gotten worse. I personally think it is Reaganism and that whole ‘trickle down’ worldview that has been shown to fail yet continues to be embraced by the current GOP and many Establishment Democrats.
Good post jane. I was what you would call a late boomer and in 1984 the younger voters went for Reagan even more than the older ones did. There was a palpable shift towards the “whats in it for me?” and “get what you can no matter what” ethos. I think part of this was that once the Reaganoids wrung us through a nasty recession and started stripping safety nets away once jobs came back, what was considered “greed” turned into “self-preservation”. For instance, until the 1980s, no rock band would even consider corporate sponsorship regardless of whether or not they were political/social minded because up until the 80′s it would have been seen as crass and unacceptable. I was one of those tiny amount of late 70′s/early 80′s punk rock kids “screaming at a wall” to my peers about what was happening to the country under Reagan and it was all met with scorn and ridicule from our age group.
The quote I’m thinking of works the other way around, older generation excoriating younger one, attributable to Socrates, though not proved that he said it.
Here’s how much this country cares about the younger generation, the generation of hopelessly in debt college graduates.
I just looked up the U of Minn. tuition, it’s $11,287 per year. In the early 1950′s I paid $150 per year. That’s $45,000 versus $10,000.
What the hell happened! Combination of featherbedding and fear of taxes is likely what happened.
Sorry for the bad arithmetic. $45,000 versus about $10,000 in todays dollars for a four year degree.
Mafia of the intelligentsia, along with medical & law industry.
“His defeat will be another turned chapter in the historical record.”
If he is defeated by Obama, a brother in arms, rather than a true opposition candidate, it’s just another victory for the MOTU and another defeat for the rest of us.
In current parlance: The 1% wins and the rest of us are screwed
Agreed. And much of that elderly wealth is just some insurance policy, which will pay for an average of two years in a nursing home ($74,000 a year, average).
Only the rich are “entitled” to inherit a better world. I received the bill for two funerals and a house worth $4,000 in a slum.
Good to learn that I am an unpatriotic war criminal. I did what I thought I had to do, as did you. But give me a break, draft evasion was also a crime, regardless of what I did or didn’t do while in uniform You are mighty righteous with your blanket condemnation of people who actually served their Country.
I will tell you honestly and factually that if you had the courage to say such a thing to my face, we would most certainly test your commitment to nonviolence. Too many good people died and I will not allow you to defame them, as you, sir, are the criminal here, not us.
I am trying to suggest something different. Occupy Wall Street does something I suggested some time ago, many demonstrations all over, not a single million person march in DC. OWS goes half way. We need to create a national network, town by town which can turn into whatever we want including a third political party. The trouble with third parties is that people don’t know how many will vote them a la Ralph Nader. We need to demonstrate numbers, get confidence in ourselves. Then we can take things over at the ballot box. First we get together on a small scale which I have not persuaded anyone to do. I don’t have anything to offer OWS but my sincere best wishes. I might try an occupy Bridgeport, but I’m not sure how to start it . In the end I don’t see it accomplishing what we need to accomplish.
“Too many good people died…”
Including, several Vietnamese?
For like almost ever annual tuition at an Ivy was what a new Ford, Chevy, or Plymouth cost. That formula broke around 2000.
This is how I see the generations before me.
As a black man, I was largely raised by asshole authoritarians who basically took out the failures of the civil rights movement in their own time on me. When it crashed and burnt, it reinforced their own views of the futility of doing much of anything for anyone. All of that bitterness and fury had to go somewhere, so guess where it all went. Shit truly does roll downhill. In a real sense, I’ve never truly escaped them. That’s what the so-called ‘greatest generation’ means to me.
Then we have the hippy dippy generation with the emphasis on the dippy. They lived lives of tolerance and privilege and jobs and love that I have never seen, and yet preach, preach preach about how TOLERANT and LOVING they have to be to people who regard them as a cheap joke if even that.
As far as I’m concerned. The whole lot of them can’t DIE OFF fast enough. We’ll have to rebuild America after you die anyway and I accept that.
Don’t forget those few Cambodians and Laotians, too.
College tuitions have been going up faster than overall inflation since at least 1967, which is as far back as the CPI data components go at that level of detail.
Granted. I didn’t say I blessed the slaughter. I will mention that I didn’t authorize “Rolling Thunder”, where the B-52′s carpet bombed noncombatants. But apparently you missed the memo, people were shooting at us, too, (as is common in warfare) up close and personal.
Any blanket condemnation of those who participated is just bullshit, even if delivered from what is an obviously pure and unsullied view of the world. Are we proclaiming millions of your countrymen “War Criminals”. If you paid taxes during that time, I suppose that might make you, as well as a lot of Americans, a contemptible war criminal-just like me.
We gain nothing from this type of inflammatory rhetoric, other than providing fodder for RW blogs…
Social change only occurs when people come together (eg. black churches in the south prior to civil rights).
American society is designed so that people are isolated (eg. a suburban home with a big screen TV).
Church is still the only place a fraction of Americans come together, but churches in America really are just Political Action Committees that also specialize in brainwashing and distraction.
#occupy’s threat is that people are simply coming together.
One big thing overlooked by all is the system WORKED in this case although it took a while.
Many do not realize Penn State is a PRIVATE school and what they did was CYA on an institutional scale.
The only way this whole sorry situation came to light in the first place was one of the victims parents reported a son’s treatment to her public high school. The high then as required reported it to state authorities which undertook the subsequent investigation and gave us what we know today.
i.e GOVERNMENT WORKED
But, are we collectively inane as a country? Just reading the comments on this post shows there ARE people who want a better society and do care about others. What if the media’s focus on the Tea Party and conservative dogma reflects a much smaller segment of the population than people realize? Even in conservative Alabama, when a thousand volunteers got out at the grassroots level to actually talk to people about an issue, the people responded in what some might consider a “liberal” manner.
While I do believe the citizens of our country may tend to be conservative in regards to “change”, I still have faith that there are a lot of good people in this country. Maybe we just need to talk to each other more (face to face)…as conservatives, liberals, independents, or whatever your views may be. Find solutions as a society because the Ayn Rand, individual first, “I’ve got mine” type thinking has taken at least some of our country down the moral abyss.
That “total mass psychosis” was no act of nature. It was carefully nurtured, indeed inflamed, by Bush, Cheney, and their ilk.
Responsible leadership would have gone after the surviving conspirators as crime perpetrators, rallied Americans to reaffirm our rights — and taken a good hard look at the U.S. troops stationed on the sacred sands of Saudi whose ouster was Osama bin Laden’s stated rationale for 911.
Penn State’s wiki says it is a public school.
Thanks for your excellent point.
How many of the “best and brightest” of the young in a rural community end up moving to urban areas? What long term effect does that have on rural areas? How does it effect the issue of diversity and exposure to new ideas?
If you haven’t read it yet, you might enjoy David Sirota’s book “Back To Our Future: How The 1980s Explain The World We Live In Now—Our Culture, Our Politics, Our Everything”
Yes, I have been feeling that as well.
3 generations have devolved into what we have today:
A world run by a handful of corrupt corporations. One where science is secondary to the interests of shareholders. One where a corrupt corporate media lies to the masses everyday, and nobody does anything about it. A country where you get thrown in jail for protesting the tarsands, but crashing the economy and stealing billions gets you a sternly worded letter and taxpayer bailout.
We live in a country that is going down the toilet because we refuse to make wealthy people pay for the expensive wars they lie us into. I feel no longer a part of it, and have barely concealable disdain for authority.
Well I’ll be, opps. You are right Penn State is a public land grant institution.
Still, government worked, it is the high school people who followed their responsibilies versus the higher ups on the education chain.
You know my whole life I’ve been shamed for my stand. My own brother refuses to talk to me because I didn’t go
I was driven from my local Volunteer Fire Department for my stand.
Reread the constitution you swore to uphold about the well thought out war powers and who takes responsibility for declaring war and for a damn good reason. The constitution is a sacred contract between our government and it”s citizens not to be broken.
I bear my burden proudly and for your information I have lived on under $25,000 a year since Vietnam to avoid contributing one more damn dime to the Magnificent Mindless”Merican Murder Machine than I was required to do.
I faced the same choice as everyone of that time and we live with our choices.
.
I came to think that there’s little diff bet large bureaucracies, public or private. Some work, some don’t. The diff is the profit motive, which when unchecked by any opposing force, quickly gets rapacious. Corps learned how to buy the govt in the past X decades, the one force that kept them a little in line (since there is little actual biz competition). So both the private and the public institutions became corrupted.
No doubt…
The older generation has gone from hippies to selling out the country.
If you think thats bad… wait until the younger generations are in charge… they were raised by the older generation.
We are doomed.
Too many good people died in Vietnam. But the Vietnam War was a crime of aggression war-making which served the interests of the French and then the American empire. Kerry mocked Nixon and the United States for asking men to die in order to provide coverage for a mistake. Kerry was wrong, in part. The elite in the United States wanted to obscure its crimes, especially the crime of waging aggressive war.
When the final reckoning comes, and I say this as an atheist, it will be discovered that no American did enough then and now.
Yes, the seduction of the 99% is older than the boomers. But damn their lack of conscience. And one remnant of the silent generation admitted to me that he was glad to be escaping before the shit really hit the fan, sans condolence.
Why must we suffer for so many stupid and venal pretenders to empire? Seduction.
The diff bet capitalism & communism is that in capitalism the corps own the govt & in communism, the govt owns the corps.
The boomers weren’t so cool. I know I’ll be flamed, but c’mon look at the mess they’ve made. We live in a perpetual 1968. Plus, the oldsters that were hippies now look at longhairs like aliens. I have a thick beard and long hair and most of the boomers I meet (who you know were hippies) look at me with revulsion. Perhaps they are lamenting a failed experiment.
I’m surprised at the amount of intergenerational animosity that is manifest in this thread. Especially when most of the arguments from one age group or another are unsupported generalizations, made on the basis of such stunning statistical evidence like how one’s parents raised one, whether a given social movement was or wasn’t ‘successful,’ without any definition of what the typer means by success.
So am I. It’s neither a correct nor a useful view.
It’s clearly a top-down issue, not young-old. I have my post up here.
Yes, my friend, you do.
Is it your FDL tee shirt maybe? Your ZZ Top vinyl collection?
Why the surprise? The slouching towards armageddon, subsidence of conscientious resistance, the huge debt (physical and finacial) incurred, the submission to financial fantasies, etc.
Humans made judgments about their world before statistics. No reason to be condescending on that baiss alone.
i stand with your word sir……..i understand the need to puff out our chests when someone hurts about this…….as i get older i think we are too quick to do the killing for those that sit in luxury at home.
I left this comment over at the news roundup but the discussion seems to be over here so I’ll repeat it.
I don’t see the value in the former Second Miler’s WaPo testimonial. Seems to me that adults belonging to every generation, including his own, failed those kids and he’d be better to address class warfare than foment generational warfare. A janitor, crying and shaking with distress, but too scared of losing his job to go to the police? That’s more about a failed social system than a failed generation. As for the dearth of revered leaders – well, veneration of the likes of Jack Welch and contempt for the likes of Bernie Sanders didn’t come from an entire generation, it came from places like the Washington Post. We didn’t go looking for a Culture of Greed, it came looking for us.
In any case, I’m a little worried by the kind of leader the writer will be looking for and I’d like to know what he means by this:
Just what the manipulators want, age/race warfare over the shrinking pie while the 1 percent have gotten richer and richer and their talking heads spout about how the 1 percent is rotating (NOT) .
Yes 50 year olds and 20 year olds are later and latest to the trough.
The “greatest” generation, the one who benefited from the demographic scarcity to scarf up a higher ratio of jobs and wealth, and get a double dip of the frontloading of social security and medicare benefits for which they paid much much less in taxes for.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/11/07/the-rising-age-gap-in-economic-well-being/
Yah, those people, the ones who got the first tier in the Federal and state pension plans and UAW jobs etc etc.
The American Pie is getting smaller, and that needs to be talked about. A good start is to follow the money.
And those were just about as accurate as the assertions made on this thread.
Thanks for that. Rec.
Funnily enough, I think I dig more boomer music than the boomers themselves. I remember cranking up Who’s Next and an oldster told me turn it down. LOL.
Too quick, indeed. And though I’m unsure about this suggestion, I think we should bring back the draft. If any sitution is serious enough to send in troops of American young people, that should be an = opportunity. As it is, the PsTB are happy to start aggression etc. over & over and send over other people’s kids. Sickening. Talk about inequality. I know the service represents some sort of opportunity for some people, but that is a very naive view of killing, PTSD, etc. Let everybody in if there is concensus data about a genuine threat…So far the recent calls to arms have been very phony. Can they really have been for the MIC & oil? My worst nightmare.
On balance, I like boomers as individuals–but as a group they were lethal, ushering in the shitty business ethics we have today and the anti-social values that the elite exhibit. Mayor Bloomberg is THE epitome of a boomer. Self-satisfied and incapable of seeing beyond his nose. Steve Jobs is another boomer archetype.
One has to separate bohemianism from hippiedom. The Gen Y kids are activist bohemians, not hippies. Hippies are the crooks that became Goldman Sachs execs.
You want to document your comments? That’d be helpful.
Many of us have been at it for decades, though in less colorful activities, but still working towards social and economic justice.
And let’s hear it for Dan Siegel!
Dan Siegel, Oakland mayor’s chief legal adviser, resigned over what “he called a ‘tragically unnecessary’ police rapid of the Occupy Oakland camp.” LINK.
Dan Siegel was with us–at the forefront–during the People’s Park struggles and he’s still at it. LINK.
I mean, I lived it. Look at our society. For most of my life, I’ve gotten the scraps the boomers threw at us. They called us slackers. Thankfully, I’ve perservered and worked around their autocratic vision. Of couse, I can’t give you stats. It’s what I’ve lived!
“the scraps the boomers threw at us…”
Is it possible that you are confusing the top 1% of the boomers with the entire generation? I understand there’s a social movement afoot pointing out that 99% of us are all in it together.
Every living person at the time bears part of the blame. Just as we all do now. If you excuse yourself completely you might grow complacent. Having said that, it does no good to take more of the blame than it takes to change the way you think, to make you a better person. If everyone at the time had done some true soul searching a lot of lives would have been saved and I don’t think we would be where we are now.
Americans are far to good at cognitive dissonance, and avoidance. Just having the conversation is cleansing. I think recognizing a shared burden is the first part of community, and responsibility the first part of action. Are you less responsible than McNamara or Nixon etc.? Ya, maybe but your still part of the same group, along with the draft dodgers, protestors and everyone else. If you are worrying about degree’s you’re probably missing the point (I think the OP as well). Community and personal responsibility being two different but equally important things.
The Boomer betrayal had its visible analogue with the gen’s adoption of the ball cap without irony. They didn’t mind looking like Bob Hope or General Westmoreland. Gen X outmaneuvered the Boomers by turning their ball caps around circa middle 1980′s when the NY Mets turned their (authentic) caps around, aka ‘rally caps’. Then all hell broke loose, the Boomers lost their co-optated main word — ‘cool’, which they took from the Beat hipsters (and was superbly deconstructed by Sondheim, Bernstein, and Robbins in 1957′s WSS) — when X & Y transformed it circa 1992 into a three-syllable polytonal ejaculation that Boomers could not pronounce to save their lives. It was all like, whoa.
Exactly. There are many “boomers” who have also had the “scraps” thrown at them throughout life. This is not an “age” problem, it is an inequality problem.
This is the failure of Capitalism as a guiding philosophy. It still works for the small stuff, the details of keeping things moving in the culture. But as a get-out-of-jail-free card, it works FAR too well for those who have endless resources, and far too ill, for the rest of us. And considering that the “rest of us,” in Capitalistic terms, is now 99 percent, the right is now on OUR side, for changing this…..Money corrupts by making things so much easier for he who has it, that its power is reflexively used to suppress and repress the aspirations of others — for no better reason than that suppressing their aspirations brings in even MORE money and power to the Rich….A nickle from every poor person, into MY pocket? What’s wrong with that? They won’t even miss it! Nor the other nickles they send my way, either; through inflated prices, diminished product sizes, diminished job prospects (heck, overseas, you can get a days work, for that nickle, if you are willing to bust heads — as the Rich ARE), increased taxes to counter the taxes the Rich do not want to pay … times all of the companies each trying for another nickle from the poor….Well, the poor are OUT of nickles. The failure of this generation of “leaders” is that of Capitalism as well. We have let Capitalism take root in our nation’s ruling center, and it won’t give up without a fight.
Mayor Bloomberg is not a boomer…..born 1942; predates boomers by 4 years. There’s a small generation between the “Greatest Generation” (damn you, Tom Brokaw) and the boomers….can’t remember (beat gen; lost gen????)
It’s “silent”. Lost = the 20s…flappers.
No, I do mean the boomers. They voted in Raygun–and went on their jihad against social programs.
The reason why many of the boomer media types don’t understand OWS is because they are wedded to hierarchy. I’ve heard many boomer activists decry OWs for its leaderlessness. This is where Gen X and Y are different from the boomers.
Close enough.
Yep. They called us “The Silent Generation.” And then came Rock ‘n’ Roll and The Beats–and we never looked back nor were we ever silent again.
Yes, it’s far better to have White Romney in the White House than Blackface Romney. At least with Willard, the evil will be self-evident. No hiding behind melanin, “hope” and “change” and the history of the Party that Blackface Romney reviles, constantly mocks, and has helped to kill.
Let the naked fangs of capitalism be bloody for all to see. Obama is not just a bullshitter, he IS the bullshit. Away with him!
Thanks, RevBev…….no wonder I forgot…..they were so silent! :)
I helped to elect Obama. That makes me an accessory to murder, and I’m not even joking about it.
If, when the revolution comes, it is decided that I should be jailed/executed for that, I will fight it, but I will understand. All I ask is that I live to see the greater villains suffer the same fate.
Thank you my friend and I do not condemn what anyone did back then . I lost friends and had friends that never really came home the way they left.
In the end the whole thing was a damn shame .
We missed the boat by not trying Mc Damara Kissinger and that rat pack for the lies and war crimes, the grunts not so much.
Good day sir..
Still disagree. It’s boomer elite not the entire demographic group.
During the Reagan Era is when the graft and corruption really kicked into high gear, and that was nothing anybody voted FOR.
And btw, all the people that I’ve been to the OccupyDenver marches with – are boomer aged. There’s a lot of these people in my flickr stream – the 99% is broad based including generationally.
As has been noted on the thread it was the then 28 year-old coach not doing his duty to protect a 10 yr old getting raped in the shower.
And as far as people who blew up the economy? How about Goldman Sachs’ Fab Toure – age 31. There are plenty other traders under 40 at the time too.
Tim Geithner – 42 when appointed head of the NY Fed and 47 at the meltdown.
The elite top percentiles are the problem here, not any specific age-band or demographic.
You can keep your comfortable fiction, or look at reality. It’s really a choice.
Income was a far bigger determining factor in who voted for Reagan than age.
And 18 to 29 year olds – they would have been Gen X in 1980 – were evenly split between Carter and Reagan.
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_80.html#.TsGHQvGXfV0
But if you want to just issue a blanket condemnation of people aged 55 to 70, simply because they ARE that age – be my guest. Nothing hierarchical about that, is there?
I think the boomers were the ones who gambled in the housing market and got burned. Not all, but a lot. They made it impossible for the younger generations to buy houses in the 2000-2006 period. Poeple in my generation got desperate and bit off more than they could chew; but it was the boomers who created the mess, thinking they could make a fast buck off real estate. I am not saying this was true of ALL boomers, but many. For many of us in the younger generations, this caused a lot of anger and frustration. I am just describing how we generally feel about you folks. It is pretty widespread. I want to work with the boomers to create a new world, but some of them really need to find a moral compass!
And draft a certain number of random congressman to go and fight on the front lines till our victory is won ,after the declaration of war of course.
I won’t get into “generational” arguments, but as I recall, it was in the ’80s when I started to see CEOs coming under pressure to increase profits. Not MAKE a profit, not be profitable, but “more, more, more”. If you had an 8% profit one quarter, you needed to make a 10% profit the next, and 15% after that, or your ass was grass. No more “steady hand at the tiller” management, it became squeeze the workers/rob the public/get it all now and screw the future. “Chainsaw Al” Dunlap, who gutted Scott Paper and other companies, was the most notorious of the executives birthed by this ethos, but hardly the only one.
The rich would pay more taxes if they knew they were the only direct beneficiaries, but they know that taxes can benefit everyone, and they know that the poor, weak, disabled, unhealthy, discriminated, and over-burdened members of their society would also benefit.
The claim of provoked divisiveness, as if a generational debt is fabricated, only extends the pattern of boomer irresponsibility. True the deck was also stacked when they started, but the boomer sharks then stole the face cards and brazenly declared they had no alternative.
Can one speak of collective responsibility? Absolutely. Are capitalist thugs going to exploit that too? Obviously. What would a responsible boomer do in such circumstance?
Tom (Silent Generation) Brokaw has done us no favors with that whole “Greatest Generation” propaganda. My father like many vets came home damaged after WWII. He led a very productive life but was haunted by war. Our next door neighbor was at the Battle of the Bulge and came home and beat his kids and had a good construction job. Women were kicked out of the jobs they had during the war and became help mates. The Brits rewarded the sacrifices made by both men and women by instituting a national health care plan while we only rewarded vets with the G.I. Bill of Rights. War sucks for everybody and makes no one “great”.
Pitting generations against each other is as old a trick as pitting poor whites against poor blacks. Don’t fall for it. The 99% are all generations. This guy is disappointed in the “leaders”. Well, most governmental, union, and business “leaders” fail us in every generation. That’s why a leaderless movement right now is just the ticket. No more hierarchy. Long live fraternity and sorority.
Umm, would you use that same argument to forego resistance to the elite of your generation? I thought not. In boomer time, when disaster was on the horizon, they partied.
Must crisis response be the nature of a democratic society? No. The boomers accepted that mode. They largely failed to rise to their occasion.
That’s a strawman to assume that I, for instance, forego any resistance to any elite of any time – like others do too.
People can have their comfortable tribal beliefs, generational or otherwise, but they aren’t based in fact. Usually ginned-up emotions from propaganda.
Look, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I have a lot of pent up resentment for the boomers. It’s love/hate thing for a lot us. We like your music, but feel that you are the center of attention, even now when your time in the spotlight is past due date. We have endure the hype about how the oldsters now can have it all even in their old age, sky diving in the Himalayas or going on some African safari. We have to be reminded that our generation has contributed nothing, over and over again. It gets tedious. We were the slackers, the scum, who couldn’t get it done. The media still floods us with boomer hagiography.
I’ve heard from Occupy youngsters that they don’t want some of the activists from the 1970s, that they want their OWN revolution–and I agree! While the movement is inter-generational, the twentysomethings should be the ones who guide the movement. Let’s fact it: we need new blood, new ideas. The boomers have had their chance–and frankly, they blew it.
While I freely admit this is anecdotal, I think it says a lot about hidden assumptions that in a recent chart attempting to gauge generational satisfaction/dissatisfaction in Time magazine, it had Millenials, the “Silent” generation, and the boomers-and then skipped everyone that was born in between the former and the two latter groups.
I guess we’re persona incognita.
So your argument is to dismiss? Some progress you’ve made.
The economic and political course followed by boomers has been disastrous and they did not raise enough resistance.
Yep, Gen X doesn’t even exist to them. LOL. Oh yeah, we have Curt Cobain and grunge–but otherwise we’re invisible.
No – my argument is fact based – see here
It is a corrupt conservative-driven ideology in place since Reagan, held in place by corrupt elites that is the problem; top-down, not young-old.
It’s sad that you don’t understand that this is NOT a time to isolate groups based upon age. Occupy Wall Street is something which effects ALL of us…young, old and everyone in between. Many “boomers” lost their homes or a great deal of money they had saved after years of work thanks to corruption on Wall Street and a bought and paid for Congress/Executive branch. As Kelly stated, those involved in the corruption are from all age groups. So, once again, this is not an age problem, it is an inequality problem…inequality economically and of power.
Look, I don’t mean to divide, just to express my feelings. There is some truth to what I am saying. The cultural hedonism of the 60s/70s expressed itself in a particularly virulent form of Me-ism. Read some Christopher Lasch. He had great insight on the boomer mentality. So I am not making this stuff up.
Lasch may have excellent insight and analysis. The points, however, get back to large generalization about a certain period of time and the births of that era. Generalization, nonetheless. One somewhat appealing observation was the boomers rebellion against the “man in the gray flannel suit.” Yes, another generalization, but the cause was worthy.
I know many people who lived through the 60′s and 70′s who believe it or not are NOT consumed with Me-ism. But, if we agree with your generalization, then we better generalize that every generation since that time has also been consumed with Me-ism in this country and it exponentially became worse with time. So, we need to find better solutions as a society with people from all age groups. We need to rebuild the moral fabric of this country. We could start by recognizing that we are not just individuals and “consumers”, but are part of a bigger society and our individual decisions can effect the greater society as a whole.
And this generation includes essentially all of the transcendental rock stars–Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beatles, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, the great Motown artists, and on and on.
That reminds me… I was in a department store the other day and saw a boy who looked to be about 10 years old jumping happily up and down and dancing in the aisle while listening to music through headphones provided by the store. It brought a smile to my face. Being curious about what he was enjoying, I got closer and heard it was Elvis Presley’s “Hound Dog”. So, we can also learn to share and enjoy music from a variety of generations. We just need to work together to find solutions.
A great documentary is Adam Curtis’ “The Century of the Self” on BBC. Freud’s nephew Edward Bernays is looked at in this movie as the father of modern marketing aka propaganda. He sold WW I as “keeping the world safe for democracy”. He then went on to help the tobacco industry sell cigarettes to woman by appealing to their desires rather than to their material needs. This was really the beginning of a whole century of “me”. Consumerism and me, me, me, started long before the Boomers were even born.
With any luck, the young people of OWS will call attention to the possibility of a next century of “We”. (More Jung less Freud). But as many people as possible are needed in this fight and resentment and bitterness towards any one generation is really counter productive. This is about taking back our sovereignty as citizens and not mere consumers or cogs in the machine. We are not Joe and Jean Six Pack. We are not generalizations. Get into each others shoes and start a conversation with a new language of what we expect from each other.
Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive, though?
Quite frankly, I’m appalled by the collective political behavior of practically everyone that came before me. Admittedly, everything I’m going to say is anecdotal, but I’ll still say it anyways, starting with:
My parents’ generation. Maybe it’s just that I’ve had the truly awful luck to mostly be around awful people, but with rare exception, they won’t listen to anyone who came after them about anything serious except as a last resort. Mostly, I’ve watched them robotically vote for either Democrats or Republicans based on who the Democrats were, or who the Republicans say that they used to be and should be again. If you fail, it isn’t because the circumstances underlying success were undermined (by society changing through their dogmatic support for the Demopublicans). Instead, it’s because you just didn’t have enough gumption to pull yourself up by your boostraps-because they, forty to fifty years ago, did so. Similarly, I’ve watched them pretty much ignore anything that didn’t belong to their halcyon days.
The 60s generation (since the 1960s). I think that those who basically decided to ardently support conservatism have been more than adequately criticized already, so I won’t be repetitive. At the same time I’m not really sure if I can say that they’re the entirety of the problem, when at the same time:
I’ve also seen a lot of people who make the same mistake as my parents’ generation. In effect, they ardently support the Democrats because of who they were and what they did in the 1960s and early 1970s-while ignoring everything that happened afterwards. I recall quite vividly when I was part of a local antiwar group (and being the youngest person there in my 30′s at the time). Everyone there was an ardent supporter of Kerry in the election against Bush and during his largely vegetative campaign-[i]but not a single one of them could name anything he did since his antiwar activism[/i].
This is something I regard as highly symptomatic-because time after time, I’ve seen leftists want to use the same tactics, same strategies, even sing the same songs, as the 1960s-and not really ask whether what they’re doing is working, or for that matter, whether it even worked all that well the first time around seeing how in some fairly serious ways, American society is now worse off than it was then?
I don’t want this to be seen as an indictment of either the efforts or the changes that they did make back then as much as it’s an indictment of how, in a sense, staid and almost traditional things have gotten.
Another fairly horrific yet common response that I’ve noticed has been to notice how bad things have gotten, ask how well the same tactics would have worked from the 1960s…(off to a good start)-and then promptly conclude that nothing would work and then give up on everyone who came after them. These people write paeans to despair, they semi-exile themselves to transition towns or more of an extreme, “Survival Acres”, they ‘hope’ that everything will fall apart after they’ve die, and they hope for some kind of radical Thoreauvian spiritual transformation of humanity. What they don’t do is help anyone who came after them-or they create a vast and artificial demarcation between the Degraded People of the Now (who can be ignored)-and the Living Simply Enlightened People of the Future.
In fact, it’s even worse than that because while they have the resources to help themselves which they got during a time when society was more intact, they also turn around and load down with despair everyone who might try and change things for the better after themselves.
“And this generation includes essentially all of the transcendental rock stars–Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beatles, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, the great Motown artists, and on and on.”
Why are they transcendental?
When you really think about that question, you might get a better grasp on some of what I’m saying.
Excuse me? I doth protest, I take offense ha ha. Not all of us sold out my friend. And losing patience..to put it very mildly, with my fellow old farts is a constant in my life. In general people are brainwashed and ignorant, the only conclusion
I can come to when I see them cut off their noses to spite their face.
Those that so greedily have are about to receive their just desserts. I so hope I live to see that day. Evil always eats itself eh hosers? I am singing that song by Ruby and the Romantics..Our Day Will Come
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–8Ju1jb8Bw
The problem is the ugly part, with the ugly people, the murderers of men and spirit.. We all will experience great trauma before we to get to that place of peace.
We who are semi conscious give the one finger salute to TPTB and a very definitive WTF.
I want to be a comb over bald headed no class asshole..a prayer answered
DT testified. The little people trembled in fear of the dreaded words..you are fired..Me?> I snatched me some red hair clean off his shiny pate. Blinded I was but undefeated.
Yes, they have, collectively, acted appalingly. They chose, collectively to invest financially and psychically in capitalist nonsense. This awareness is a tool of division; it is a necessary break from their cynical conformity and desperation.
Your facts are inadequate. “It is a corrupt conservative-driven ideology in place since Reagan” that, in large measure, was swallowed whole by boomers and chased down with their meritocracy faith (which is yet faithfully administered). A political answer to this capitalist assault requires an understanding of the political failures of the boomers. Contrary to your banal observation that the elite were the perpetrators, the boomers continue to abet their crimes, either through ignorance or cynicism.
In fact, their seems to be a large number of reactionary (pragmatic) boomers who reject the more revolutionary actions of the 60′s era. Who, in other words, define themselves against the revolutionaries. Given the nature of the problems ahead, I believe it highly likely that the revolutionaries where closer to an answer than the “pragmatic” boomers.
Moreover, the boomers were wrong. If they want solidarity, they must move. It is their progeny who are condemned.
If we did that none of us would live past 20. Well I wouldn’t have. There’s an open question about what we have a obligation to do morally, but I think we need more forgiveness. I’d be willing to let them all of the hook if they were willing to be completely transparent about what they have done.
I think for citizens, a small affordable repayment to victims and checks to make sure it didn’t happen again is probably right. This has been done in the past with successes and failures. It is worth noting that we have very little power except as a group so Weimer or Haiti sytle repayment systems is counterproductive.
Glancing at your title, my brain saw “Disgustageddon” and I thought “how clever”. Sounds like we are the same age. I grew up in Detroit, and when I eventually got “hired direct” at the place I was doing CAD on auto parts, they’d just ended profit sharing….at their U.S. operations, still shared profits at their German facilities. And now IKEA low-balls wages here but not in their native country. I hope we can make things better for my nephews and other young people cuz this shit sucks.