An amendment from Dianne Feinstein passed as part of the Senate’s defense authorization bill yesterday punts one small aspect of detention policy to the courts, namely whether the US military can indefinitely hold an American citizen. Adam Serwer, who has had excellent coverage of the detention pieces of the defense bill, had this report:
Can Americans be indefinitely detained by the military on suspicion of terrorism if arrested on American soil? Thursday evening the Senate added a compromise amendment to the defense spending bill that states: Maybe. Specifically, it says the bill does not alter current authorities relating to detention, leaving either side free to argue whether current law allows or prohibits indefinite military detention of Americans captured in the US [...]
The reason the compromise amendment worked is that it leaves the question of domestic military detention open, leaving the matter for Supreme Court to resolve should a future president decide to assert the authority to detain a US citizen on American soil. Senators who defended the detention provisions can continue to say that current law allows Americans to be detained based on the 2004 Hamdi v Rumsfeld case in which an American captured fighting in Afghanistan was held in military detention. Opponents can continue to point out that the Hamdi case doesn’t resolve whether or not Americans can be detained indefinitely without charge if captured in their own country, far from any declared battlefield. They have the better of the argument.
The Obama Administration may still veto the bill, since this punting to the Supreme Court on this one aspect does not address their point, which isn’t really opposition to indefinite detention as much as it is opposition to having Congress dictate detention policy at all. They already operate under the premise that the US can indefinitely detain terrorist suspects, and they want that power maintained in the executive branch rather than codified into law. It’s unknown whether this will be enough for the Administration to veto the defense authorization bill, after it comes out of a House-Senate conference and passes Congress.
Of course, this is but a small piece of the problems with the bill from a civil liberties perspective, which Glenn Greenwald pointed out yesterday. He also noted that current and prior Administrations already did and are doing many of the aspects of the bill, and that the defense spending measure would merely codify them into law. This includes the mandatory imprisonment and indefinite detention of all terrorist suspects by the military, a renewal of the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force to cover a wide range of potential terrorist suspects, including “anyone who substantially supports Al Qaeda, the Taliban or associated forces” (basically making the post-9/11 state of war endless), and a limitation on the ability to transfer detainees from Guantanamo or potentially Bagram Air Force Base, which would make it difficult to end the Afghanistan war.
So while giving courts the ability to decide if an executive can have the military capture and indefinitely detain a US citizen is better than just writing it into law, it doesn’t do nearly enough to address the civil liberties deprivations in the bill.




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Yep and how long will you be held and your name slandered in the press while you wait for the decison to go to the supreme court. As i have said on previous post
We have crossed the rubicon. BTW before hitler rounded up the jews he first rounded up anyone that was opposed to him in any way. People just vanished and family members terrified they would be targeted next kept silent making it difficult for anyone to know what was really going on.
The debate also has left many Americans scratching their heads as to whether Congress is actually attempting to authorize the indefinite detention of Americans by the military without charges. But proponents — led by Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) and Carl Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee — say that is exactly what the war on terror requires.
“And in the general hardening of outlook that set in … practices which had been long abandoned – imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions … and the deportation of whole populations – not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive.”
George Orwell, 1984
Uh, I don’t know what Serwer is thinking. The Supreme Court already has the authority to rule on whether the military can detain US citizens on US soil on mere suspicion of some abiguous terrorism link. This statute can’t affect that; it’s constitutional.
Seems to me what this codification does is to leave in the statute the apparent authorization to do, and then tells the victims, “so, sue us.” Thanks a lot, DiFi. Idiot.
Wasn’t Jose Padilla right on point here?
An American citizen, detained on American soil (Chicago airport IIRC), and locked up without charges or access to a lawyer.
That is why I went so bananas on that case.
There is not a lot that scares me, however, our slow but continual erosion of the Constiitution in the name of “fighting terrorism” does. A LOT.
with dems like difi who needs republicans
OFG, As you can see above, bother me too. I went “bananas” and I don’t even LIKE bananas. Had a bad experience when I was 4. But I digress.
I really didn;t think I woudl see the things that have heppended in OUR country over the past 6-8 years every happening in OUR country. THose people who have for years been yelling “fascist”, “police state”….I have dismissed them before. After the recent OWS arrests etc, not any more.
So there is no misunderstanding, the terrorists of concern here are potential whistleblowers.
Since the threat of the exposure by insiders is a constant concern, the intimidation threat must be endless.
“fighting terrorism” = hiding the secrets of Bush/Cheney. Period.
I can’t for the life of me remember how that case ended up being decided.
I keep thinking that it NEVER was fully decided, in that the government finally charged him and tried him and thus the SCOTUS never did rule on the constitutionality of it. But I’m not sure if that’s correct or not. They say when you get old, you immediately lose three things, 1) your memory, and 2)……. I forget the others…
You are certainly correct in general, but I know Obama would never order ME detained or assassinated, because I voted for him.
And why was Padilla held for months on end in isolation in a military brig? Because the government wanted to interrogate him–over and over and over–until he coughed up the information the interrogators wanted. (Padilla’s lawyers argued that the interrogation drove him insane.) The same will be true of future suspected terrorists who wind up in military custody. Whether they are terrorists or not, they will either eventually confess to being one or spend the rest of their lives in a very nasty prison.
They say you can tell you’re GETTING old when you forget to “zip up”. You know ARE old when you forget “zip down”.
I LOVE it! I’m gonna make me a plaque that says that for my office.
It all started with the Kennedy assassination and finished the 9-11 lie.
Next time I hear “Home of the free and land of the brave”, I’m sticking my finger down my throat.
Like Nickelson character said “you can’t handle the truth” and we can’t.
We may not see it but the Nuremberg answer is the answer from China or some other country.
Not to be forgotten, there are many in Congress who are as much at risk of exposure as Bush/Cheney.
Hope you don’t mind, but think your definition required some expansion, imo.
I thought it was Cheney/Bush????
Yes, but my only quibble is that it began when this nation began. And getting to more recent history, what about Joseph McCarthy?? JFK was just one a list that goes back in time… but certainly JFK’s assassination does stand out in bold relief in recent times.
Let’s face it: the PTB loathed, destested and despised the New Deal pushed into law by FDR, and they’ve been fighting, kicking, screaming and *scheming* ever since to get to where we are today. The end.
ok: I won’t argue with that.
With its Laogai slave labor prison system, China is in no position to invoke Nuremberg.
LOts of people still make that mistake.
Without going into detail, I’m referring to the issue that 1,500+ architects and engineers are having a problem with.
I really didn;t think I woudl see the things that have heppended in OUR country over the past 6-8 years every happening in OUR country. THose people who have for years been yelling “fascist”, “police state”….I have dismissed them before. After the recent OWS arrests etc, not any more.
Therein lies the problem. People were calling out for ages that this is what was going on and they were laughed at. Well it is happening and at the same time a united states of europe with central control by the bankers is forming in europe, and very soon the dollar will be imploded, and a one world currency will be introduced via the IMF. Throw in a couple of false flags, more war, lots dead, and a creation of a neo-feudal world.
“PTB loathed, destested and despised the New Deal pushed into law by FDR, and they’ve been fighting, kicking, screaming and *scheming* ever since to get to where we are today. The end.”
———–
My good friend who is a “conspiracy
nutauthority” says the “Bilderberg Conspiracy” has succeded in their quest (a la Dr. Evil) to own everything on the planet. Regrettably, they have eliminated the middle class which is/has been the primary source of thewealthill-gotten gain. They are now re-thinking theri strategy and have a meeting scheduled for Brussels in February. He says a friends of his from Amsterdam is handling the catering.Are we gonna skip the “total breakdown of civilization followed by rampant sex and promiscuity”??? I was kinda looking forward to that.
The JFK hit was the knife in the back of the premise of a democracy. The mob who took him out and hijacked the country have been in charge ever since. Only now the extent of their reach is becoming known.
See #24 above.
about 40 mins ago – WH Presser — Carney, asked about veto threat – ‘our position is unchanged’
i’ll qualify that w/ in my lifetime.
Is our only hope the Mayan prediction ?
Really with the over fishing , genetic modified food , Fukashima , climate change, the Gulf blow out, fracking the earth blindly, extracting every drop of oil without an understanding earths internal mechanisms maybe it’s a lot worse then we could even imagine and in fact the end is here unless the 1%ers off the rest of us so they can live out their natural life.
Strange days indeed .
We already had the rampant sex and promiscuity. Well, at least I did. Sorry if you missed out lol.
yes, can’t disagree with you. it’s not looking good, is it?
If you think the Supreme Court will get us out of this, think again. They already ruled prisoners are entitled to habeus corpus (the system works!!)but nothing happened. The conservative DC circuit ignores the Supreme’s opinion (it was only 5-4) and now the Supremes don’t grant cert because they don’t want to be exposed as the powerless jurists they are.
The real culprit is Congress. When a president ignores a supreme court order he (or she) should be impeached. In our system of checks and balances any two branches should overrule the third. Since there is no example in recorded history of either a legislature or a supreme court becoming a dictator, the only cause for concern is the executive. When the other two branches don’t have the courage of their convictions, they may find themselves convicted along with a good many others.
We also are somewhat to blame since we should be thinking of ways to get the system to work for us, but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards either.
yes, we’ve all heard about the Bilderbergs, which isn’t that hard to imagine anymore. I have no idea wether they exist or not or rule the world or not; it’s possible. Interesting that a friend of your friend is “catering” the event. I’ve also heard the theory that the Bilderberg’s are actually a species of lizard-like aliens, who are the “bad” aliens (v. the “Greys” aliens, who are allegedly “friendly”).
If the Bilderbergs are really lizard-aliens, one wonders what they prefer to eat when they are altogether??? Human serf ala mode? As in the classic Rod Serling “To Serve Mankind” Twilight Zone?? Nothing would surprise me, anymore. Maybe Serling was *warning* us??? heh
At this point, I figure just about anything goes bc as much as I’ve been connecting the dots since JFK was shot… and as bad as I figured (just by my own logical projections) that the “show” would be pretty fucked up eventually… I never really thought it would be *this* bad…. sad to say. In all honesty, I don’t get how anyone can contemplate having kids anymore bc I think we’re really effed… and I’m usually a pretty optimistic person. But, reality… geez… ya have to wonder.
Bilderburg exits and in the last few years MSM such as the guardian have reported on their meeting because enough conspiracy nuts forced it int the open. So MSM went from denying it existed to saying it does but it is just a get together, drink tea and chat. Nothing to worry about.
I am in complete agreement with you, Scarecrow.
Methinks DiFi a most useful idiot.
There may well be heights of stupidity, but a certain Senator has plumbed its depths.
DW
Why are you calling DiFi an “idiot”. She knows what she’s doing and whom she serves. The decriptors I would choose would be censored.
Not sure you will “voluntarily” be having kids. You will be ‘chosen” for that role
Like the slaves locked in the pyramids with pharaoh. The evidence is they broke into the wine and partied like there was no tomorrow, doing you know what in the dark.
Abandon all snark tags, ye who enter here.
Precisely, ghost, precisely.
How much complicity, collusion, or in competence may dance, with utter disdain, on the point of a pin?
DW
The whole discussion may already be moot. Check this out.
I figured as much, but just to be silly: are they or are they not lizard aliens?? Some days it certainly seems that way!
Well some of us are past that point, but then we’ll be sent to clean up nuclear waste at the Fukishima site or somewhere like that – eh??
did you miss the 60′s?
had he elaborated: we threaten to veto to pander to what used to be our base, but, trust me, we’ll never veto.
if i’m wrong, i’ll be the first one to be thrilled.
Let us prepare for the warm “receptions” ahead, gw, for TPB and their Masters only understand more, more money, more violence, more destruction, and more despicable inhumanity …
In this, an age of revelation, as well as the age of the Divine Right of Money … the madness MUST be played out, that it and anything that would emmulate it, be forever understood, abhorred and never again be allowed, permitted, or endured … else humanity and humankind shall perish from this much abused Earth.
Let there be not “Bread and circuses”, but “Bread and roses, too …”
“They” may not know what “they” do, but to forgive “them” is to condem reason, sanity, and truth to the kind fangs of cosmic jackals and hyenas.
The die has been viciously cast … it is to “the people” whom the next meaningful “move” must fall … ready or not.
DW
wuf… what’s even more chilling are some of the comments, who pander to overbearing police brutality.
all I know for sure is they have access to vaccines and drugs that we don’t and bio weapons will be used
I believe our founders would be appalled to see America become a country where you can be arrested and imprisoned for life on mere suspicion, without charges, trial or any kind of due process.
I don’t think it matters how the law is phrased, there’s precedent going back to the Civil War stating that civilians can’t be tried by the military justice system while the civil courts are open (Ex Parte Milligan). The Hamdi decision two years ago held that every citizen has a right to a habeas corpus hearing even if declared an enemy combatant. Justices Scalia and Stevens wanted to go further, in their dissent (Scalia writing):
If the Suspension Clause does not guarantee the citizen that he will either be tried or released, unless the conditions for suspending the writ exist and the grave action of suspending the writ has been taken; if it merely guarantees the citizen that he will not be detained unless Congress by ordinary legislation says he can be detained; it guarantees him very little indeed.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-6696.ZD.html
aaaaw!
yes.
Hope spring eternal. where does it say after they take you that you will have access to an attorney?? Even if you do how long before you see your day in court? could be years? honestly we are no longer a country of laws
The die has been viciously cast … it is to “the people” whom the next meaningful “move” must fall … ready or not.
well if we look at history the people will do nothing as tyranny reigns down. We might be waiting a long time before they take action
Why does the US Senate, hate us for our freedom?
At least when they want to “disappear” you in Latin America, they have the decency to throw you out of a helicopter. Personally I’d prefer a quick trip to the jungle floor than to be tortured in prison for the rest of my life, by my own government.
Do you think 25,000 signatures could occur before this fus gets out of the house? https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/veto-national-defense-authorization-act-2012-several-provisions-bill-pose-threat-civil-liberties/GLfhBn6D
Uh, they were slave owners that did all the things to black people you find appalling .
This is scary shit OnS. I fear for my family and to think I would see this in my life time. Thanks for the link.
You have to be joking, the supreme court,Ha they are the ones that opened the flood gates of corporate spending on elections, They are the ones that have laughed at the Constitution and would likely throw us all in prison,if we interfered with congressional lobbing and other threats and payoffs. If you think you can trust anyone,even as high as state representatives, You are sadly mistaken.
the founding fathers left behind an ideal, but all human beings are fallible and swayed by greed, malice, envy, etc. this legislation takes a hammer to that ideal, and takes one more step towards fascist insanity. ideas are what are powerful, not man. the founding fathers left powerful ideas and congress is chipping away at them. ideas are why many would like to silence ows.
you can continue to point out the hypocrisy of the founding fathers and stay divided, but while you’re wasting time doing that, the current hypocrites are making everything from inequality to slavery justified. the de facto end to a “free market.” this story is as old as civilization.
Democrats are a greater threat than Republicans. The Republican are boldly fascist upfront and out there. You can see them coming. The Democrats pretend to be otherwise and then screw you in the fine print, behind your back, in conference, or when they stage one their theatrical epic fails – you know what I mean, when they pretend loudly and without integrity that they tried to stop it, oh, yes indeedy they did (not).
You can’t stop them. You do not need to affirm them with your vote.
Occupy 3rd Party in 2012.
Land of the free, home of the brave.
cixelsyd