Here in my backyard of sunny (sorry!) Los Angeles, our county sheriff is suffering through the worst performance record in the country outside of noted racist Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County, Arizona. First, Sheriff Lee Baca had to endure credible allegations of mistreatment of prisoners in county lockups. Now, he has a new scandal on his hands:
Hundreds of people have been wrongly imprisoned inside the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department jails in recent years, with some spending weeks behind bars before authorities realized those arrested were mistaken for wanted criminals, a Times investigation has found.
The wrongful incarcerations occurred more than 1,480 times in the last five years. They were the result of a variety of factors, including officials’ overlooking fingerprint evidence and working off incomplete records.
The errors are so common that in some years people were jailed because of mistaken identity an average of once a day.
Many of those wrongly held inside the county’s lockups had the same names as criminals or had their identities stolen — problems that took days or weeks for authorities to sort out.
In one case, a mechanic held for nine days in 1989 on a warrant meant for someone else was detained again 20 years later on the same warrant. He was jailed for more than a month the second time before the error was discovered.
The other stories in the article are similarly nightmarish. What emerges is a picture of a county incarceration system just totally unequipped to handle prisoners. And with California transferring many convicts from the state to the county level, this is bound to get worse with the same degree of incompetent leadership. Indeed, this is an indictment of not only the sheriff’s office, but the police department and the court system.
I would add that this is what happens when you chronically underfund the structures of government. You end up with a government that simply doesn’t have the capacity to carry out its basic functions. For all the talk of corruption, sometimes it’s that simple. The effort to defund government over the last 30 years, largely successful in many parts of the country, manifests itself in abominations like this.
Baca is doing damage control, announcing a task force to minimize these errors. But with sheriff an elected position in LA County, I think his career is pretty much over after this spate of scandals.



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“Baka” means “stupid” or “idiot” in Japanese. Seems appropriate.
If the USG can imprison innocents forever, and torture them, without paying any penalty, I don’t see what’s wrong with LA County doing the same.
If I were Baca, that would be my defense.
You think your cops are bad? You should check out the Seattle PD, which just got through being served with a DOJ report finding that the PD consistently abuses its authority, unnecessarily escalates situations, and misuses violent force.
Seattle cops are often some bad types -
Hi Margaret. We haven’t intersected for awhile. How are you? Hope your Christmas was merry and delicious.
How many of them are Iraq-Afghan vets? It’s called bringing the war home.
Still, wrongful incarceration at that rate is unreal!
I’ve wondered myself.
The community had been hoping that the issues would have culminated (and begun to end) with the shooting of John Williams (we were wrong): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1VKo6-m27
(In the video above, note the time between Ian Burke telling Williams to stop and Ian Burke shooting Williams 5 times. Burke was never even fired, but he was pressured into resigning after basically murdering a homeless Native American wood carver)
The cops around here have some very serious relationship problems with the communities they police; 80% of them don’t even live here and even today a lawyer for a man who got wrongfully stopped, illegally searched, and pulled out of his car, thrown on the ground and kicked, has asked for the retirement of the police chief. The police here don’t defuse situations, they aggressively escalate them, looking for an excuse to use physical force if at all possible. I’ve seen this tendency in action, its not pretty.
Apparently the ‘law enforcement’ people do not understand basic concepts of making sure that they are trying to get the correct person. The operative view seems to be “break down any door, threaten or kill the people in the building, and, if someone is innocent, let God plead his/her case.” How many wrong injuries or killings are caused by swat teams getting or reading the wrong address? The Los Angeles sheriff simply has been shown to be the poster boy for illegal or ill informed arrests and incarcerations.
Some NYC cops are brutal and none of them have ever paid a proper penalty for their actions. There have been a couple with a modest amount of jail time, but that is rare.
Besides the issue of being coarsened and losing all one’s better human qualities thru the brutality of war, the domestic society has increasingly gone in that direction. Think of the attempted demonizing of Sotomajor re her empathy remark. (Not that I’m a Sotomajor fan.) I am sorry I lived to see the day when empathy became a dirty word.
To bring this rant back to police, all the better human emotions are ‘trained’ out of them. The minute you saw local police develop SWAT teams in the 1970s, it was curtains for civil society. It just took awhile to realize it.
I’ve been doing okay eCAHN. Yeah I think I came along to PUAC just after you’d left. I’m fine and hoping that you are too. Scritch CAHNstance for me.
For those who see that video: the victim John Williams was at least partially deaf in one ear, and was a known local would carver who was simply seen walking down the street with a small pocketknife. After his shooting, the police photos showed the knife as it lay on the ground was closed. Basically the cop, Ian Burke, just gunned the guy down. The court testimony during the hearings over the shooting showed that Williams hadn’t even completely turned around by the time he was shot; likewise, Burke’s testimony was “he looked at me in a way that made me feel ‘terrified for my life’”. In other words “he looked at me funny and so I shot him 5 times”. The courtroom testimony suggested that, on the busy city street, Williams may not have even had time to know what was happening, Burke was gunning him down so quickly.
The long and short of it though is that witness testimony (see the woman walking across the street in the video) indicated that Williams made no aggressive move at all, barely had time to turn around and see Burke pointing a gun at him, before he got killed.
The shooting came on the heels of video after video emerging on YouTube and in the local news showing Seattle PD doing bad things, like assaulting a teenage girl in a prison cell, punching a 17 year girl in the face during a jaywalking stop that turned into a missing race riot, bullying and using racist language against Hispanics stopped at night, and previously an evidence-planting episode that got a Federal court case on it.
Righto. I too point to SWAT in 9. I also wondered when I read this post about how many places are as bad as or worse than LA county but no one has bothered to figure it out.
I am not opposed to SWAT teams when they are used in real hostage-barricade situations. I don’t think SWAT teams should be serving warrants for petty drug possession arrests though.
Part of the problem is that the police policy response to threats is to train the cops and build their procedures and policies around an assumption of the maximum possible threat in any case. This builds into the police an us-vs.-them bunker mentality, a knee-jerk violent response, and ridiculous, over-the-top handlings of common every-day events.
Part of the problem is that the police recruit for and build heavy authoritarian personalities.
And, yes, though I do want returning veterans to have a good future, I suspect the police take a lot of military and combat veterans who have spend far too long in very uncivil, violent environments and who are not well-suited for civilian police work.
And you for your lil kitteh.
I went away for 2-1/2 days over Xmas, someone came to feed Cahnstance every day, but she still found the newspaper behind teh firewood caddy and shredded it in a fit a pique. Then when I came back, she insisted on sleeping on the bedroom door side of the bed to make sure I wouldn’t leave her alone in the dead of night. After about 24 hours, she was secure enough again to sleep in her own bed.
Another problem in Seattle (and some other cities) is that the vast majority of the police don’t live in or anywhere near the communities they work in. They have then no understanding of the communities they are walking around with guns in and might as well be an occupying para-military force.
Here’s the deal: As long as municipalities are recruiting from the pool of military war veterans and as long as they are accepting military service in lieu of a degree in law enforcement, we’re only going to have more and more of this. Things had gotten bad enough with the cops’ “us vs them” attitude before they started getting all of these paranoid and aggressive ex service members with untreated PTSD.
Poor Cahnstance! Kuroneko does the same kind of thing when I have the temerity to sleep away from the house. I get the silent treatment for DAYS!
I don’t want to come down hard on veterans at all – likewise, I do wonder what happens when you take people from the military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are contexts of violence and racism, and then give them guns, and let them work as police in a society in which poverty and crime go hand-in-hand, and race and poverty go hand-in-hand.
I am opposed to SWAT. There are no circumstances that I am aware of, including the fictionalized versions on TV, that they have ever been necessary. Like torture vs. the alternative for finding out real info, negotiation, trying to understand the motivations of the hostage takers is a much less life threatening situation than escalating the violence. I would guess that if you could assemble enough data on comparables, negotiations were much more effective than force.
But of course, it’s not about effectiveness; it’s all about intimidating the population.
I don’t go away often, but have also gotten the silent treatment on my return.
I am a veteran. I was just an aircraft mechanic but do you know that period of service will still get the college requirement waived in many cities? I wouldn’t be a good police officer, I just wouldn’t but I would be better at it than just about anybody who thinks they would be a good cop. Those people get back, do well in training and they are often on the street patrolling less than a year after they had been treating every civilian they saw as a potentially lethal threat. IMO it’s not coming “down hard on veterans” to point the reality out. I think waving the law enforcement degree requirement is almost analogous to allowing a paramedic to become a surgeon without the required coursework.
Back in the day, over a decade ago (i.e., long before PTSD vets entered police force), I was called for federal jury. One of the cases was cop brutality. In voire dire I proclaimed that I thought cops were routinely and gratuitously brutal. I didn’t get on that jury for some reason…
Whenever you have the hostage-barricade situation – someone goes crazy, and keeps the wife or kids at gunpoint in a residence, similar, you need cops with training and equipment to enter the structure aggressively if necessary.
There is a real issue that SWAT is used for, which is the situation where someone who is at least as well as armed as the typical cops has a tactically superior position and there is a real threat to innocents if normal cops with shotguns and sidearms try to take on the threat.
But, again, I’ve read that SWAT gets mis-used a lot – in particular, serving warrants for petty crimes – and sometimes this has awful results (this web site earlier this year publicized an episode where a petty arrest warrant (for mary jane) served by SWAT resulted unnecessarily in the attacking heavies gunning down the family dog in front the little girl, etc.)
A HS classmate served briefly as a P.R. person fro NYC police. She told me that the brutality issue was all a matter of training. IOW, you can train them to be brutal or you can train them to use other, more effective ‘peace’ (LOL) officer techniques. But, as cops carry guns, and police are a hyperauthoritarian orgs, it’s hammer-meets-not-nail every time.
I’m still furious at Janet Reno for Koresh and all the innocents. I knew nothing about this at the time, just went with my instincts which told me that the only danger in that situation was USG and troops itching to do damage.
I think I agree with the complaint about waiving law enforcement degree requirements given military service, as the two things (civilian law enforcement, and military service) are completely different.
If I had MY way most city police officers would have to have (in addition to the law enforcement degree) a regular 4-year college degree. This would place a lot of added personal and thinking development requirements on the cops.
Likewise, I would in the case of police eliminate police guilds/unions and make the role of police officer a regular professional, salaried, exempt position. I am a huge fan of unions, but the trouble is that police guilds so often mindlessly (and successfully!) protect nakedly terrible police officers even after they are publicly exposed.
The Seattle PD police guild has done this over, and over, and over again. The Mayor’s office is universally terrified of taking them on, because come election time the Mayor running for re-election will be “soft on crime” according to the union PR types. Getting rid of the police union (this is hard for me, as I see collectively bargaining as anyone’s basic right) is a necessary step for making more accountable cops.
You need hostage negotiators to talk the hostage taker down, not troops to further destabilize.
Keeping the wife & kids at gunpoint does not necessarily mean it will end in anyone’s death.
That’s what I meant by developing a data base of comparables. Meaning accumulating evidence on whether negotiation or a show of force is more effective at preserving lives. I’d bet a lot of money that its the former.
Besides, when the aggrieved person is not open to negotiation it ends in a murder-suicide situation long before officialdom becomes involved. So, you may be sure that when the hostage taker waits long enough for officials to show up, he is open to a way out other than muder suicide.
That’s one of the major points with all of the swat teams and tatics: everyone and everything is to be treated as a threat that must be destroyed. They don’t operate on the principle of defusing the situation except to kill any opposition.
Don’t forget Ruby Ridge and the killing of the dog and then the wife.
I think you’ve got the wrong framing. It’s often not the police unions that are behind the bad cops getting off (I’m guessing here, but so are you), but rather elected officials who don’t want bad cop evidence on their watch.
Unions often abandon members the minute they are accused out of fear of being demonized as you did.
It’s a question of assessing the evidence. I don’t know of any studies that have done that in an unbiased way.
Some of what you say makes sense but you lost me at eliminating police guilds/unions. Unionized police officers are always, empirically more professional and have fewer complaints about everything ranging from demeanor to brutality. I agree the union tends to automatically close ranks around an officer, regardless of guilt and that needs to be addressed. I just don’t think doing away with police unions is necessary, desired or even legal.
I haven’t forgotten Ruby Ridge. Just not as many innocents killed, and not as egregious as Koresh.
Well, not as many innocents in absolute numbers, but certainly in % of people involved. I do have to disagree and say that it was probably at least as egregious as Waco.
eCAHN, this is the first time, I think, that I have disagreed with you and it is really on a slight interpretation of how egregious a particular killing by ‘law enforcement’ was.
(And to eCAHNomics):
I think the idea is supposed to be that the SWAT team is a last option when all attempts at negotiation or peaceful solution are seen to have failed, at which point, you would send in the heavies.
I generally agree that police force in the US is paramilitarized at this point, and this is a very bad thing. It makes law enforcement a paramilitary operation, not a community system.
Besides, it doesn’t take a union for the police to close ranks to protect one of their own.
I’ve never understood that behavior. If I were a member of such a fraternity (granted I never have been), I would be eager to turn in a wrong doer (if I had strong evidence) or withhold my support or condemnation until evidence became available. That IMO is what would preserve the integrity of the organization.
But that’s one of my eccentricities. Not many see life thru my lens.
I remember watching that raid on television as it unfolded. They were poking holes in the second story walls with armored vehicles and when it backed out on one occasion, my friend and I both clearly saw flames begin inside the building at the spot the hole had been made. It was repeated on the local news channel a couple of times and since then I’ve never seen unedited video of that event again. They cut the part out where the tank backs out and flames immediately erupt from the hole it had made and then they began to spin a story about suicide/murder. I also saw the police/ATF/whatever shoot at least two people who emerged from the flames, in at least one case on fire. I’ve never seen that footage again either. That episode was more than anything else what woke me up to what was being done in my name. That was my political/sociological wake up call. I’ve never automatically believed the government since.
Ruby Ridge (and Waco) by the way were not “SWAT” operations – they were Federal operations utilizing ATF and FBI heavies, who are effectively a military shoot-first-ask-questions-later force. SWAT teams are generally a part of a local police force that gets added training in hostage-barricade situations.
I grant you your %ages. And wasn’t she pregnant?
No, I am not guessing at all – I am recalling the litany of news reports over the last 10 years I’ve seen where when a bad cop makes news, the first thing that happens is the Seattle Police Guild (with its spokesman O’Neil) rush to stop any inquiry into what the cop did, the Guild stonewalls every investigation it can.
You haven’t seen the impact of the Seattle Police Guild.
At that time I was still way too tied up in being a single mom with a professional Wall St career to fully process it, but my subconscious came to exactly the same conclusion as you did, more in the forefront of your brain.
Then perhaps you can link to the data that shows what you observed vs. the data the tells how often elected officials protect offending cops. In NYC it was almost always the elected officials who protected the offending cops, not the unions at all.
Actually, you’re wrong – the Police Guild is a sort of mafia-like base for the local cops – they prioritize cops protecting cops and sticking together over anything.
The Seattle Police Guild for instance went to the mat defending Ian Burke, the cop who shot John Williams. It is in large part due to the guild that Burke, who, objectively, shot a man down in cold blood with no provocation, not only didn’t face jail time, but was never even fired from his job, let alone faced with criminal charges. The local cop chief even publicly referred to Burke’s shooting as “egregious” yet the best the chief of police could do in the face of the Guild was push to have Burke face such a bad future career in the Seattle PD that Burke opted to quit the PD for a different job elsewhere (he can still serve as a cop for instance).
Why yes I have a database here for you, a SQL db with a layer on top of it that lets us do S-plus queries, with the last 10 years of guild complaints.
No, actually, unlike you, I’ve lived in Seattle for the last 15 years and paid attention to local news corresponding to cop complaints. Universally the Police Guild stonewalls investigations.
Glad to hear that in NYC its the Mayor protecting bad cops. Here, the Mayor can generally do nothing at all because the Guild will paint him as “soft on crime” if he tries to do anything at all. Often as a result the Mayor’s office takes its marching orders from the Guild and PD when it comes to investigations into officer misconduct, which is Legion with the Seattle PD.
Again, eCAHN is right: It doesn’t require a union to cover up rotten police behavior. I came up in the bad ol’ days of a homophobic and racist HPD, (Houston Police Department), so I know a little bit about bad treatment at the hands of the cops. It was my impression that the union was pretty strictly a PR mouthpiece when it came to brutality. It was the complicit courts and internal investigators who did the heavy lifting when it came to sweeping away complaints and charges and that was certainly my experience too when I, myself was on the receiving end of an HPD boot.
I had been out of the service for almost exactly two years and was already becoming aware of how crooked it all was, having heard Newtie speak on some radio interview but that little fiasco had me screaming like a banshee at the television. Until then I had primarily been a Republican voter, (though I’ve never been officially affiliated with any party), but the Branch Davidian slaughter was the catalyst for me to take on politics and be more active.
It’s America.
Of course it does happen here.
I’m not surprised by this stuff anymore. If you look around and see the reality, how can you be surprised by this?
sixgill, you are correct; they were not swat teams. I’m sorry that I left that impression. I was simply putting that action into the use of terror by the ‘law enforcement’ people. The killer was apparently a trained sniper with a sniper rifle. It was a terrible use of police power because neither the dog nor the wife were threats. I went back and refreshed my memory at this site. The fbi showed up and were concealed in the woods. The dog barked so Weaver’s son and friend got their rifles in case it was some wild animal. As the dog was barking the fbi shot it and Weaver’s son and friend began to fire back. An fbi agent was killed as was Weaver’s son. The next day Weaver’s wife was standing in the door holding their baby when she was shot in the head.
Team sports.
Cops protect cops regardless of whether there is an official org. There are no official orgs for sports fans, but no group could be so rabid.
Team sports are sooo not me, but learned from my fanatic son, a Jets fan all thru their losing years (he made up for it by being even more of a Yankees rooter) that it doesn’t take an official org to create mindless supporters for the most loosing teams.
I could never sympathize with a cult. That would be so un-me.
But I did realize how irrational and just-plain-wrong-wrong-wrong the USG response was.
Not surprised. But this discussion has been remarkably in-depth. Bringing out a lot more subjects & details that are related but not in the original post. My fave kind of thread.
Somehow the link didn’t work. I’ll try again. Try this.
Meant to respond to that comment that it wasn’t a SWAT. That is a distinction without a difference.
The telling difference is use of force vs. other techniques. SWAT is the local manifestation of use of force, FBI is USG manifestation. Same diff. (Some would call it Federal Bureau of Incompetence; haven’t seen analogous designation for SWAT, except the fly image comes to mind).
Koresh was a kook, followed be more kooks. But they were American citizens who weren’t harming anybody outside their little den of psychos. What the ATF did was heavy handed, unconstitutional and incompetent. It made me pay more attention to current events, outside my areas of interest.
There was also that horrific Philly event when SWAT burned a whole block of houses. Instead of negotiating.
I have personal experience with suicide, potential murder, and though my experience like all others can’t be universalized, no intervention, negotiation or show of force, was going to arrive soon enough or be effective to prevent death.
However, from my personal experience, I’m acutely aware of what the alternatives are. Sometimes (my case) there are none; too far gone. Sometimes negotiations. Rarely force.
YMMV.
Remind me why the ATF went in – I can’t remember. Was it stockpiling arms?
Margaret, we lived in Houston for nine years (inside the loop). My impression of the hpd was that they were heavy booted on everybody, it was just that they had more opportunity in the black and Hispanic communities. A lot of that changed when Lee Brown took over the police and Kathy Whitmire became mayor. It was not overnight, but the complaints did drop off considerably as the dept became more professional in dress, attitude, and action. We’ve been gone a long time so I don’t know what it is like now.
Didn’t they bomb a tenement from a helicopter? Very disturbing! And probably not union related.
Exactly.
Who cared what kind of a kook Koresh was. He was ‘harming’ (reasonable people may disagree) some families, but that was not the USGs bizness.
I also had a very close friend (he was everyone’s very close friend except his ex-wife’s) who was accused of child molestation by his ex-wife. Gave me great insight into both sides of the story.
Ummm….it was some minor weapons charge….they were trying to execute a search warrant I think.
I’m talking about in the Herman Short days prior to Fred Hoffeinz being mayor. You got the “cleaned up” version, trust me.
Prolly NOT union related. As you say. Too late and to many scotches to goggle it. But horrific and completely at the hands of the PTB. Alleged perps did NO such destruction.
Margaret, now that we are passed 50 comments, I am free to link to a subject of interest to you. I alerted you to it a couple of weeks ago, but I think my comment ended up in epu-land. Anyhow here’s teh google. No great evidence, and never will be, but intriguing nonetheless.
Okay…according to wiki:
So apparently they were suspected of putting a toe across the line between semi automatic and fully automatic weapons.
That’s very interesting indeed. I’d never read that. Dunno how I missed it.
Which doesn’t address the issue of what the most effective method of enforcement might have been. Like waiting them out. What would have been the harm in that.
Came across it in a bathroom book, then googled it.
Precisely. They had intended to stamp out the Davidians from the start. When you “attempt to serve a warrant” by climbing on the roof with body armor and automatic weapons, somebody is likely to shoot at you. That was a deliberate provocation.
We got to Houston in ’77, I think Hofheinz was in his last term. I was thinking of the Joe Torres case of drowning in Buffalo Bayou, Randall Webster (a blond haired kid from Louisiana I think) who was shot by the hpd even though he had no weapon, and a mentally disturbed black guy that threatened to use an iron bar or knife on something like 9 cops surrounding him. The mentally disturbed guy could have be captured in a net that the hpd had, but they shot him.
Which raises all sorts of other issues. Like WTF did Branch Dividians ever do to provoke the USG or Bill Clinton, or Janet Reno. If they had been left alone, perhaps a dozen or so lives might have been permanently ruined. Instead USG snuffed out dozens of lives. Doesn’t seem like fair trade to me.
I don’t get it either. That seemed personal, did it not?
Night all. I have’t a clue.
I wasn’t trying to suggest that HPD ever limited their brutality to minorities or the LGBT community. I’m Caucasian, (blond – blue), and I myself was brutalized twice, once as a member of the hippie community and once as an LGBT person. I’m just saying they had already come a long way by 1977.
Just too many people just want to show what tough assholes (I looked in my thesaurus for a better word, but couldn’t fine one) they are. Look at me, I can get away with punching this girl in the face for j-walking.
I ask again, show me a video of a cop trying to keep another cop from overreacting using violent force and I’ll __________________________ . (You fill in the blank)
I wasn’t doubting you. If they had come a long way by ’77, they must have really been bad. The ’77 version was still pretty bad. Hippies and LGBT were still targets then, I think.
I wasn’t doubting you. To have come a long way by ’77, they must have really been bad. The ’77 version was still pretty bad. Hippies and LGBT were still targets then, I think.
And the baby…
Sorry for the double post. The connection was bad and said that I didn’t connect. I reread my submission and felt that I could word it a little better, but I had been tricked, so you get two inane submissions for the price of one.
I went back and redid my look at Ruby Ridge. Weaver’s son was also killed. See comment 48.
I believe that was the original reason for them to be there. An officer went to serve a weapons related search warrant and one of the “followers” answered the door with a gun(s( and told the officer to beat it. Over about three weeks, more and more “officers” arrived. Officials then became anxious about the situation and then things got out of hand. I, too, remember the flames coming out of the hole the tank made as it withdrew.