Thrill to the exploits of New York Times Public Editor Arthur Brisbane, aka Truth Vigilante! Watch him wonder if it’s worth it to leap tall buildings in a single bound! Witness him ask around to see if he should run faster than a locomotive!
I’m looking for reader input on whether and when New York Times news reporters should challenge “facts” that are asserted by newsmakers they write about.
That’s the lead paragraph, folks. Arthur Brisbane has to ask readers if reporters should call bullshit on politicians and public officials. Truth is apparently no longer a normal part of the job description for journalists, but an “optional extra” that the New York Times may or may not choose to install, depending on reader feedback. If reporters were not supposed to challenge the assertions of the subjects of their reporting, you could actually fire them all and hire some low-cost court stenographers to do the work.
The examples cited by Brisbane are all instances where any self-respecting writer would contextualize and analyze the CYA quotes they got before typing them up. But to Brisbane, this is a question of real mystery. A lot of news outlets get around this these days by having a separate “fact-check” column. But needless to say, if the lies aren’t called out right in the article, they never get fully challenged.
Amazingly, Jim Romenesko sought further comment from Brisbane, and he still didn’t get the fuss his column generated: [cont'd.]
I have to say I did not expect that so many people would interpret me to have asked only: should The Times print the truth and fact-check? Of course, The Times should print the truth, when it can be found, and
fact-check.What I was trying to ask was whether reporters should always rebut dubious facts in the body of the stories they are writing. I was hoping for diverse and even nuanced responses to what I think is a difficult question. To illustrate the difficulty, the first example I cited involved whether Clarence Thomas “misunderstood” the financial disclosure form when he failed to include his wife’s income. No doubt, many people doubt that he “misunderstood” but to rebut this as false would be difficult indeed, requiring knowledge of Mr. Thomas’s thinking. I was also hoping to stimulate a discussion about the difficulty of selecting which “facts” to rebut, facts being troublesome things that seem to shift depending on the beholder’s perspective. Many readers, in my view, would be skeptical whether The Times would always take a fair-minded approach to rebutting
Why is it hard to rebut that? Thomas’ intent is actually beside the point. If he failed to include his wife’s income on a financial disclosure form, he illegally submitted the form. I don’t know how this “misunderstanding” piece is relevant at all. What would be relevant is the implications of the illegal form, what has happened to other judges who improperly submitted such a form, and so on. Who cares what Thomas was thinking?
This is pretty serious stuff. In a recent NYT article, a reporter stated without equivocation that Iran was developing a nuclear weapon, according to the IAEA. That happens to be untrue, and Brisbane actually agreed with the complaints from readers over it. Does that mean that the next time a politician says that the international community believes Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, that NYT reporters should have to think about whether or not to rebut that? Of course not. But this is Brisbane’s query.
Personally, I’d rather follow the law and just be a truth whistleblower, rather than a truth vigilante. But Brisbane seems to have the idea that telling the truth is a criminal act.




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dd,
I’m not reading this the same way you are.
The media is big, big, big and non-fact checking has been off the plate for a long time.
Sounds like a voice crying in the wilderness to me.
I’m sure we’re looking at this through different filters.
I saw the column title in the Times this AM, knew instantly what it was about, and just winced. What a gaffe, the public editor asking his readers “Should the paper reaaalllly try to fact-check what major figures tell its reporters when the figures have a stake in what the reporters tell the public?”
There are issues to consider in fact-checking – remember, a news outfit might be wrong in its fact-checking and lose its credibility rapidly if it challenges as false stated facts that turn out to be real. Likewise, a news outfit can be accused more than ever of having agendas if it is broadly seen as challenging its sources statements.
But for the public editor to characterize basic fact-checking as “vigilantism” in a day where news operations are heavily used as propaganda outlets by political operations … that’s just a gaffe.
Truth is a 4-letter word. Apologies to lefties who can actually count to 4.
Pubic editors are just another cog in the PTB wheel.
To my view, this is the same solipsistic narrow-mindedness I see on the teevee and “news” papers daily. The bobble heads are yammering on about the latest shiny object and then jabber “this new shiny object is getting a lot of coverage” without acknowledging their complicity in distracting the rubes from what’s really going on in the world that has impact on their lives.
“News” organs these days are the self-licking ice cream cone of the corporate owned media: Of itself, for itself and by itself.
The man is either disingenuous or downright stupid. It isn’t (at this point) important whether we can determine the “fact” of Thomas’s “misunderstanding” of the need to file an accurate financial disclosure. The FACT is that he did not. A reporter could have reported, as pointed out in the comments following Romenesko’s article, that a false account was filed and that Thomas “claimed” that he misunderstood what information was required on the form. ‘Nuff said.
“He said…” is a fact. “She said…” is a fact. Reporting “He said … she said …” is reporting facts. Reporting those facts, and only those facts, and making no mention of the substance, if any, of the comments preserves access, advances the desired (on the part of the speakers, and probably the news outlet) narrative, and satisfies the barest letter of “reporting the facts”.
But it does not serve the public interest.
Adding a sidebar wherein the reporter later addresses the substance is better than nothing.
The process that best serves the public interest is for the reporter to challenge the substance of the interviewee’s statements during the interview. This has been dubbed “gotcha journalism” (aka “journalism”) and the precedent has been set that it is appropriate for the interviewee to walk out of the interview once challenged. Even for his/her security people to rough up/eject the reporter.
So, once again, legacy media fails the public interest. Cronkite is dead, and journalistic integrity seems to have died with him.
The best we may be able to do is have actors portraying journalists in public relations events masquerading as press conferences obtaining the raw “he said … she said …”, and leave it to the blogosphere to do the fact-checking.
Well, truth may not be a 4 letter word, but fact is a 4 letter word.
Always!
Dumbass.
Thanks David.
A few notes for Mr. Brisbane: News letters are where you put out your opinions, newspapers report facts.
Second, perhaps your reporters can take a page from the lawyers and start using words like ‘claims, alleges, purports, or asserts’ again.
How about the Press doing its job? Or is the press like congress nurtured by corpo-money?
Well, he does end that sentence in a preposition, which questions his use of English.
That’s two strikes right there. He doesn’t know if and when his reporters and writers should check the veracity of the BULLSHIT that gets sprayed around with a firehose. Strike one. His command of English is pretty weak. Strike two. Sounds like fatal flaws for a newspaper editor to have if you ask me. How much does this clown make?
Edit:
I wonder how many honest answers he gets in which the writer believes that statements presented as fact should always be checked for liberals but never for conservatives?
Next week Brisbane will ask: “Is the only real news celebrity news? What do you think?”
The press is the lapdog, toady, patsy, etc for the ruling caste. It’s all about the rich now. They don’t even bother to disguise it anymore.
The perfect example — perfectly horrible — is climate change. The Right Wing Cons have “tricked” the MSM into treating science as a matter of opinion.
Also see my post earlier today, if interested:
http://my.firedoglake.com/wbgonne/2012/01/12/climate-change-is-here/
Claims and alleges are the words U.S. corp media uses for convictions of spies in Iran.
My eyes are going – Is that real tweed he’s wearing?
A timeless statement.
But, if every time some one steps out like he has, s/he gets slapped down, why should anyone else step up?
Yeah, it’s fun to call them names, but, I think we should applaud or wonder once in a freaking blue moon.
My favorite joke involves prepositions:
A guy from the Midwest is standing on a street corner in London when he spots a well dressed Englishman also waiting for the light. The guy turns to the Englishman and asks “Pardon me suh, but can you tell me where the Tower of London’s at?” The Englishman eyes him gravely and says: “Sir! In England, we never end a sentence with a prepositionI”, to which the tourist replies: “Ah, sorry sir but can you tell me where the Tower of London’s at, asshole?”
Sad and true. This guy at the Times is shocked … SHOCKED! … to find reporters reporting bullshit.
Ha! Good one.
You go to press with the liars you have, not the liars you want.
Sigh. I still think this is pretty amazing, although we have plenty of evidence that the current generation of “reporters” have learned something else. Recall David Gregory telling Jon Stewart (I think) that ascertaining, let alone reporting to readers, the truth of a politician’s assertions was, literally “not our job.”
I believe Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, William L. Shirer, Howard K. Smith, etc., would have found that appalling. More recent journalistic “stars,” of course, such as Luke Russert’s dad, would nod approvingly.
I heard at noon one of the npr hosts I usually respect interviewing Joe Nocera about the argument between him and some Heritage tool about whether FNMA and FMAC were solely responsible for the housing meltdown today. She prefaced her first questions with a brief setting-forth of the dispute, and included this gem, “I won’t judge [which of you is right], of course, but…”
I wanted to scream, “that’s why everybody hates you!!!!”
I also believe that when reporters began calling themselves “journalists” the decline of reporting accelerated.
Brisbane’s article is just one giant question of how can a newspaper tell the truth without hurting anyone’s feelings. This clown is more concerned about access to the subjects more than the truth of a story. The title of the article itself is asinine, as if the news media had some other objective other than inform the public about the truth.
This is how far the rabbit hole our so-called free press has fallen into. The American news media has become the Ministry of Truth.
Patricia T. O’Connor maintains that ending a sentence with a preposition and splitting infinitives are vestiges of some francophile irrelevancies left over in English. Have no idea whether that is accurate, but you can’t imagine how freeing it is to be rid of such grammar constraints imposed by stern old maid who imposed those rules in 8th grade English (1958).
The NYT is and will remain a tool of the Oligarchy. Right now it is facilitating the same old liars telling the same old lies in preparation for yet another insane war. My suggestion for the Times? Eat shit and die.
I could care less.
Lighten up.
“Sure. You first.”
Have no idea what your point is, but Nun’s Story hit the movie theaters exactly when I was considering that ‘vocation.’
Now that is a total irrelevancy to this thread.
Yes, that is the modern view of several of those rules; the two you mention are the most mis-taught, you might say. I learned those rules, too, but although I often feel following them makes a sentence smoother and less awkward, there are plenty of sentences made more awkward and un-Englis-sounding if you follow the rule.
I used to be extremely pedantic and nitpicky about grammar rules, which I happened to learn easily and thoroughly, but I have relaxed a lot. Studying linguistics helped, although I don’t go so far as most academic linguists in feeling than any sort of grammar rules are stupid. If we don’t understand each other, we can’t communicate, and if we don’t agree on some basics rules of how to speak/write, that’s where we end up.
Of course the linguists say that’s why it doesn’t work; languages will always evolve to separate and become different languages.
Well, yeah, but (imo) in the meantime, we need to understand each other. Therefore, rules, but not smacking down every single tiny error.
OK, sorry, TMI on the language front, right?
It makes no more sense to characterize Clarence Thomas’ incorrectly filling out a financial disclosure form as a “misunderstanding” than a conscious act of deception. Just say he filled out the form incorrectly and then make an educated guess at his incompetence and/or dishonesty. After all, it would be irresponsible not to speculate.
Didn’t mean to hijack thread into grammar discussion, but just to provide a little more info, of a new (to me) look at how English grammar rules evolved, in response to Starbucks’ joke.
The substance I gleaned from O’Connor’s assertion, the truth of which I have no clue, is that pedantic grammar is, as you type, sometimes an impediment to communication and sometimes an aid.
And that language evolves. I knew that before I heard her, but hadn’t thought of that particular example.
I think AitchD was having you on: “I couldn’t care less” is the proper negatory form (the other way implies one could care less, which makes no sense).
Now, back to the show!
There was a troll yesterday on one of TBogg’s threads who was absolutely sure that it was within the SCOTUS purview to read juries’ minds. In defense of Thomas’s lone dissent on some issue.
Applying sauce-for-goose-sauce-for-gander rule, that troll would have to deny Thomas’s ‘defense.’ It would seem very easy to read Thomas’s mind, dontcha think.
Sometimes those negative negatives get me wrapped around an axle.
Heh, quakerinabelltower, indeed.
Come, come. To say, “I hold you in contempt” you can’t have class. You’ve got to have class.
Bingo. Says it all.
Ah, you were on that thread, too, weren’t you? That was fun, up to a point.
to ducktree: “Heh, quakerinabelltower, indeed.” I like it.
If you enter “Sure. You first.” as a subsearch at the wiki page, you’d've got to the context. My turn at irrelevance: I know O’Conner disapproves of and advises against -’ve contractions, but I ♥apostrophe’s!
I don’t really have an opinion here, but, that guy really looks a lot like Peter Fonda.
Glad to see demi back.
ACtually, you can always tell people under 40 because they always say “I could care less” when they should say “couldn’t”.
Taxi picks up a fare at Boston airport, fare asks, “Where can I get scrod around here?” Driver says, “I’ve been asked that question thousands of times, but that’s the first time in the pluperfect subjunctive.” Very cunning linguists, those Boston cabbies lol.
‘Scuse me……..THAT joke is properly told with a guy from TEXAS.
ncg from Texas.
It ain’t funny if you have to deconstruct it. *g*
Incidentally, the latest Fowler acknowledges ‘could care less’ as acceptable informal usage for the negatory, even though Fowler had long been dead when it was published. Fowler??? I never touched her!
LOL!!!
I find that, in almost every case, constructing a sentence not to end in a preposition results in greater elegance and a satisfying ending. I’ve tried it both ways and yes, I actually have had situations whereby the sentence gets way too long and unwieldy, but that, I believe, is an error on my part, perhaps chalked up to inexperience and insufficient attention to detail. (I hated diagramming sentences in high school!)
In any case I am the hijacker criticizing where to put the preposition at!
The origins are murky, but ‘could care less’ only worked as speech, and usually required a face-to-face exchange. It was spoken with a subtle but clear sarcastic edge, and if you could twitch an eyebrow as though to raise it, the bite of the sarcasm was piercing.
Texas is the midwest! Well, part of it, anyway!
That’s another of my favorites.
Is that an opinion, or a fact?
If I were someone else (no names, please) I’d say it’s lame to lame a username, but yesterday I kept imagining Richard Nixon as Rupert Pupkin.
Rectum? Nearly killed ‘im.
True story.
Early in my career, though I’d done several biz trips, I was traveling with a salesman to Milwaukee, his first biz trip. He was the spitting image of Ted Kennedy. He was so anxious, we got to LaGuardia very early for the flight. Had several pops there, and several more on the flight. Upon arrival, he asked the cabbie where to go to have some fun in Milwaukee. Flabbergasted driver, turning around to face us in the back seat, said, “I’ve been asked that Q many times, but never with some one traveling with his wife.”
My response: “It’s OK. We’re not married.”
It’s never too soon to put a period. ;-)
The effect is even greater if one licks the eyebrow. (Hachachachachacha. I got a million of ‘em lol.)
Ah, Milwaukee cabbies. They do know about fun!
I’ll ignore the obvious about periods!
Anyway, off to get some wine and mushrooms for dinner.
So, today on a WNYC thread to another grammarian (well, she’s more than that but the rest is not germane to the story), typed: So what do you folks think about the increasing use of starting a sentence with ‘so’ and use of the word ‘folks.’
;-)
Even in plurals?
Having lived in Boston, I’ve heard that one a few times. (still funny, tho’). I’m a sucker for grammar and spelling jokes.
I would of wrote it like: ‘Even in plural’s?’
You mean as in ‘the Keatses’s letters’?
A very oldie. I remember all the jokes from my childhood lol.
I think you meant “have written it.” (Warning, I am one of those hated grammar sticklers.) But I’m a nice person otherwise, and the internal editor is often a curse.
So, yeah, I love ‘em both! (well, I do live in Texas – don’t know how often I used “folks” before I got here.) There are regional differences in “proper” usage.
After my trip to Oklahoma, from Boston (law school) for job interview, one day I was talking to my prospective Okla employer while my bf was in the room. He started laughing quietly. After I got off, he explained it was when he heard me say “I’d be real glad to…” instead of “really glad to”. He said he knew then I was accepting the job offer. (He’s a language major, too, alert to the nuances).
Damn! I thought the English lesson would be over by now.
molly, molly, he’s playin’ with ya again.
The once and not-future grammar maven. (I gave it up because it was making my friends and family, and me, nuts)
It’s just so much fun! Once you get (some of) us started, we just can’t stop!
It is not funner if one is required to explain one’s winky pidgin malapropisms. And you missed (?) my dumb “like” (turned properly (?) as “as” in the allusion to Strunk & White’s example for forming possessives of nouns.
Oh yeah, I know, I know. But I always take the bait. A curse, I tells ya.
Yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever read Strunk & White. My bad.
I could play these grammar games all day. But you won that one.
My relatives all came from Northeast Ohio (not meant as a put-down) and they had some really amusing habits of speech that I think are likely regionalisms. It is such fun comparing those. In fact, I recall a website (long forgotten) for some study of regional words and expressions. It was a quiz, of sorts, about what words or expressions one uses and their meanings (which vary).
My grammar died while I was still a young child.
No I didn’t, actually.
I am retired but have a part-time temporary paying gig with my former employer, editing web pages as they’re moving to new web software. It’s amazing what I’m finding, and this is at a University.
LOL.
So?
You too? Aaagh!
A student (in a developmental English course — y’know, the euphemism for ‘remedial’) asked about apostrophes and possessives with all appropriate and due frustration; the sentence in the exercise in fact was ambiguous, employing ‘trees’, which could be construed correctly as either singular or plural in the context. I ad-libbed this on the blackboard:
A tree’s bark and a dog’s bark are not the same.
A tree’s bark is rough while a dog’s bark is ‘ruff’.
Trees have roots; dogs have pedigrees.
And while it’s fun to walk through a tree’s leaves, it’s never fun to walk through what a dog leaves.
If you bark up the wrong tree, you’ll just be stumped.
Um hum, me too. Sorry. I mostly control my urge to correct, but….if Paul Krugman’s editors don’t fix his misplaced commas and periods (they go INSIDE the quote marks), I’m gonna haul off and comment about it.
Funny, and very clever!! I always pity both kids and foreigners trying to learn English.
Maybe it’s time to debark this thread!
Ruff ruff!
not if you’re reading a pirated copy of the UK edition, they don’t
To be fair, this is in his blog. I haven’t noticed it in his columns. Perhaps the NYT doesn’t edit his blog. And it’s a very common mistake.
British printing copy prefers the commas and periods outside the ‘inverted commas’, and so do I prefer that style, especially here. But I don’t have to follow a style sheet here.
Yup it probably is. Sorta fun to chit chat on a thread when most everyone has gone “upstairs” to the next post and we’re all EPU’d.
It’s not a ‘mistake’, I think it’s gaining acceptance (like certain comma-splice constructions).
Somehow totally irrespective of rules, I dislike double quotes (“) with periods or commas on the outside, but single quotes (‘) seem to look better to me with the punctuation on the outside.
But then, I think there are appropriate uses of single quote marks too.
And I was a wizard at diagramming a sentence back in 7th grade. But that was about 1955 or so and I’ve long forgotten how to do it.
Those always seem wrong to me. Especially when someone tacks on a “however” in the middle after the comma.
EDIT to add: I nearly always tend to over-comma and wind up going back and taking some out.
One final joke.
A fellow grew up with a speech impediment. He could not pronounce his r’s properly. He took a job as a cook at an army base and one of the officers there was particularly nasty, poking fun and asking him to pronounce words with r’s out loud. Well, he had enough, so over a weekend, he practiced, and practiced, and finally conquered it well enough so that for Monday’s lunch, he made a big pot of fried rice. As soon as the sargent spotted the lunch, he broke out in a big grin and said “Well, what’s for lunch, cookie? To which the cook replied “Fried Rice, you plick!”
I graduated high school in 1955.
Yeah, that ‘however’ stuff betrays bad breeding. I was using semicolons when I was in fifth grade.
I leave you with a nightmare of a double-fragment comma-splice:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
(Even more horrifying in the original!)
In 1955 that was slang while the ‘correct’ usage required the locution ‘was graduated’.
Nothing puncs like punctuation. I’m outta here. Taking my whole colon with me lol.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la meme chose!
Mine was 1960, at 17. Actually 7th grade would’ve been 1954. I can grammar, but I can’t math.
I think the school graduates the person, not the other way around. I never said “graduated high school” but “graduated from high school” which was equally incorrect in those days.
Evidently there is confusion here amongst the alleged grammarians regarding dependent and independent clauses and the function of the comma in punctuation.
1955, I was in 7th grade at the huge school that comprised 7-12, in Pittsburgh. The Brooklyn Dodgers won the World Series for the FIRST TIME! that October, beating the Yankees in seven games. So what? The school was dismissed after fifth period (dismissed from the last two periods of state-mandated instruction!) so we could watch the rest of that last WS game. A 21-inch TV was placed on the stage of the auditorium. We were in Pittsburgh, not in New York. I mean, that true story ranks up there with the lies about Washington and the cherry tree and Lincoln walking miles in the snow to return a book.
And phrases as well as appositives.
I thought you said you graduated from high school in 1955. Looking back upthread, I see that was Starbuck.
And for Kelly: my knowledge of grammar is instinctive. I have long forgotten such things as dependent clauses and appositives. I just seem to have an instinct for the correct grammar, possibly because I read fairly comprehensively at age four. For example, I know immediately whether the word should be “affect” or “effect” in a particular sentence, but probably couldn’t explain why.
Grammar and syntax are based on rules. Opinion, feeling and instinct don’t count in that realm. The rules and framework do.
So, folks who’ve followed along here might say that not only do you have relatives from Northeastern Ohio, but you also have correlatives from when you were four years old.
Ah yes, the old “opinion vs fact” distinction. We’re back to the crux of this story. There is far too much confusion among particularly the contemporary media and punditry about the difference between opinions and facts and they are used interchangeably far too often. I am no superb linguist like yourself but I fret about the loss of critical thinking skills. It’s a crime.
Opinions are pretty high up there in the cognition taxonomy, a RCH below inference and a mere bubble and a half from the plumb of a fact. Experts are relied on to give their opinions when matters of life and death are at stake, in an emergency room or at a murder trial.
We are sloppy at best, and have turned the sense of ‘opinion’ to mean nothing more than ‘sentiment’ or gut feeling, something wholly personal that no one should ever dare to take away from us.
Not in a simple realm like rules for grammar.
For instance in the sentence at #45:
The verb is in the present tense and indicative mood. That is a fact. The pluperfect tense subjunctive mood is absent from that sentence. That is also a fact.
See, right there, that’s why I never get my grammatical guidance from Boston cabbies lol.
We desperately need a sin tax!
In any case, a great dinner was prepared, served and consumed. Salmon steaks marinated in a sweet/sour marinade, baked and served with a cross cultural fried rice seasoned with a Middle Eastern spice mixture, washed down with chardonnay.
Sigh!
There go all my trials and tribulations, Sinking in a gentle pool of wine
(paraphrasing Jesus Christ, Superstar)
You’re using the term ‘present tense’ in a linguistic argument even though there’s barely any sense of ‘present’ time being expressed. The ‘simple’ tenses seldom illuminate the subtleties of meaning and inflection during analysis. That present tense is comparable to saying ‘Tomorrow we go to Milan’, which is futuristic more than presentic. More (or less) the mood relies on inversion to express the interrogative, which (in the opinion of some linguists) alters the moment or inertia of the ‘indicative’ intent.
Mainly, your points about grammar and syntax imply only an educated and literate culture since grammar and syntax are mastered in a native language well before literacy or much intellectual maturity. “Me want again potatoes” might make you cringe, but you ought to get the meaning unambiguously.
It’s casual as hell here, and ought to be. I’m grateful and happy that people comment here whose native language isn’t English, or whose education had to stop early for some reason, or who could care less about the knot of their tie or the holes in their sweater.
The verb tense I noted is in the present. That is unarguable. So is the mood.
The modifier is what your talking about in the first instance, which is “when” as an adverb.
In your second example “tomorrow” is a noun.
You would be better off in this discussion, which I did not initiate, if you knew the components of grammar of your own language.
Ok, I’m going back to my work in Photoshop.
It’s been fun.
The New York Times (and other newspapers) would have to double it’s size if fact-checked rebuttals were made immediately after any quote attributed to any Republican, laying out for it’s readers why what the Republican said is a lie, or misleading, or far, far out in right field, since Republicans tend to repeat right-wing think tank, focus-group-tested “talking points,” relentlessly, staying “on message,” and the facts be damned.
And this fact-checking rebuttal policy by any true journalism outlet not only should apply to news articles, but also to their op-ed page, because I’ve run across untruths (i.e. flat-out lies) on editorial pages in Republican columnist screeds.
But I can understand why managing editors and other newspaper editors are hesitant to immediately point out and rebut Republican BS when it appears, they are only trying to save the forests..sniff…they are just tree-hugging environmentalists concerned about how many millions of trees would have to be cut down to expand the number of pages in each edition to handle all the rebuttals of Republican lies….sniff.
What a moronic example — Clarence Thomas “misunderstood” a form requiring disclosure.
All the reporter had to do was say Clarence says he “misunderstood” however ignorance of the law is not a defense.
You noted what? Whatever it was you called “the verb” won’t parse to your willful vagueness. That verb phrase includes an infinitive. Therefore your three assertions up there ^ are ridiculous.
No it isn’t; I was explaining that the simple present seldom expresses present time. (And I also write your when I mean to write you’re.)
I didn’t use it as a noun, and it doesn’t function as one in that construction. The present tense doesn’t convey present time, which was the point of the illustration.
What’s unarguable is that you’re a much better judge of character and commentary than I am.
You do not understand English grammar. I cited:
“Can” is modal. “Get” is the actual verb in the present tense, indicative mood. There is no infinitive construction.
Your statement:
clearly demonstrates your familiarity and facility with language.
In the case of Clarence Thomas, if the story is going to carry his irrelevant comment about what he was thinking when he filed an incomplete disclosure form, then follow it up in the next paragraph with a comment from a legal expert saying that his thought or lack of thought process was irrelevant — the form is illegal, period.
And when politicians deliver accusations that are false, questionable or unsubstantiated — and the writer or editor can’t immediately prove or disprove it — then include a statement of skepticism from another source who casts doubt, or at least questions the veracity.
No, of course not. You should repeat everything they say, credulously believe it and challenge none of it.
Look how well that worked for Judith Miller.
In the example, the main verb get is not a finite verb; it’s called an infinitive in the grammars we learn. If you do some minimal research about verbs, you’ll agree instead of doing whatever it is you’re going on about.
Your mockery of my example by your taking it out of its useful context leads to what sort of benefit? Now I’ll be less elliptical:
Shakespeare writes “Now is the winter of our discontent”, which is essentially no different in meaning than saying Shakespeare wrote “Now is the winter of our discontent”; yet one academic style requires the present tense as another academic style requires the past. You know all this, so I’m at a loss to understand your villainy.
You and Kelly have succeeded in convincing me to put my faith in Ebonics. Thanks for clearing that up lol. Word!!