Somebody really wants this foreclosure fraud settlement to go through. So much so that California was offered a sum to participate in the settlement sure to piss off the other 49 AGs across the country. Only California was guaranteed earmarked funds from the settlement. Earlier we heard they would get $8 billion out of the $25 billion pot, or 32% of the total (California has roughly 10% of the population). Now, Shahien Nasiripour says they were in line for $15 billion, or a whopping 60%.
California, home to the largest US property market, spurned an offer of roughly $15bn in lower monthly mortgage payments and reduced loan balances for its residents in talks to settle allegations of mortgage-related misdeeds by leading US banks.
Bank of America had guaranteed California borrowers would receive $8bn in mortgage aid, while Wells Fargo and JPMorgan Chase committed at least $5bn to the state’s distressed homeowners, according to people familiar with the matter, who declined to give exact figures.
California would have received more than half of about $25bn of aid that would be available to borrowers in a nationwide deal under discussion to settle allegations that banks illegally seized homes using faulty documentation.
Deal terms, sent to state attorneys-general late last week after nearly a year of talks between the banks and various states and federal agencies, did not include guaranteed minimums for any other states, people familiar with the matter said. Various state officials said they were unaware of the California offer.
I suppose this could be disinformation designed to anger the other AGs and pressure California’s Kamala Harris to accept the deal when the terms are actually not as clear-cut. But this shows two things: one, how desperate federal regulators are to get California into the deal, and two, how inadequate the overall deal is, even to the state of which it’s tilted so far in favor.
Looking at raw population totals isn’t a fair way to look at this; California has lots of single-family homes, more than other states, and a large oversample of subprime loans. It’s hard to get at all these figures. But I was a bit surprised that the state is not in the top five among homes in negative equity. About 30% of the state’s homes have negative equity, behind Nevada, Arizona, Florida, Michigan and Georgia. If I were the AGs of those other states, I’d be pissed that California is getting such special treatment.
But one of those state AGs, Pam Bondi of Florida, is instead mad that California won’t go along, which likely holds up the deal for other states.
Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi stood by the 50-state attorneys general settlement with the nation’s biggest banks on Thursday as California and Delaware formally rejected the proposal she helped negotiate.
Bondi said Floridians can’t wait for foreclosure relief and that the draft proposal sent to states on Monday addresses California’s concerns.
“The settlement under discussion contains all the elements California purports to be looking for; transparency, substantial relief for distressed homeowners, and strict enforcement,” Bondi said Thursday. “Florida’s homeowners need relief now, and protracted and uncertain litigation would be contrary to their best interests.”
Bondi would have to share $10 billion with the rest of the country, with no guarantee of any percentage going to her state, and she’s mad at California, and not the officials who negotiated that stinker of a deal for her?
And here’s the larger point. This settlement deal is so bad, that even the state getting 60% of it sees that it would not provide commensurate relief to the scale of the problem. When the overall deal is $25 billion and there is $700 billion in negative equity nationwide, you can see that as a problem. Plus, if I were any AG, I would doubt the enforcement, since the last time they settled with a mortgage lender on fraud claims, and were supposed to get loan modifications as a result, Bank of America didn’t do the mods, in the Countrywide settlement.
So between California and Florida, there’s one AG who has their head on straight at the moment, and one who doesn’t. Of course, you have to understand who these people are working for. In the case of Harris, it looks to be the people. In the case of Bondi… the banks. Why else would she fire the two most aggressive investigators in her office looking into foreclosure fraud?




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Somebody?
Try Geithner, Shaun Donovan, the OCC (those Yves Smith called the blow jobs dispensers to Wall Street) and…shall I continue?
All these incapable asshats truly believe that the recovery will be upon us the minute we will (Got your airbag at the ready?) “Look Forward, Not Back!” in housing.
Sounds familiar?
The most sickening aspect of this whole mess is knowing that if people like Pam Bondi really wanted to help Florida homeowners, the State could’ve done so financially, THEN turn around and mercilessly investigate and prosecute financial miscreants for complete restitution of the sums advanced to distressed homeowners AND jail time. Of course, compromised shills and criminal enablers like Pam Bondi do not really care about homeowners. Instead, the grade-AAA broad has an abundant history of siding with the bandits while letting others, and her own staff do the dirty deeds.
The depth of corruption of the States and federal government is reaching very worrisome proportions. Dick Durbin was right:”The Banks own the place!“
Somehow I believe Bondi is cut from the same cloth as Katherine Harris (remember her?). Bondi–the current water-toter–must believe that she is cuter, or more savvy, or more something . . . and as long as she aids her ‘masters’ she surely won’t be left behind. Like most cut from this cloth, they continue to drink the kool-aid, and believe that they are somehow extra-special! What a joke . . . but until her usefulness has past, she will support the MOTU, reneging on her responsibility to the average Florida taxpayer.
“Somebody …”
So it would appear.
Tell me, DDay, are we to believe that “somebody”, as yet “unknown”, can authorize such a thing, totally anonymously?
Would it not be VERY worthwhile to discover precisely and exactly WHO that “somebody” is? For a number of reasons.
Unless “National Security” is outrageously shielding this person or persons, how is it that the people of this nation are not informed as to the identity of WHOMEVER it is who has made this offer?
Presumably this offer is comprised of taxpayer monies?
By what means is it possible that such things may go on UNLESS such things are tolerated by those who have an OBLIGATION to the people to make clear WHO, very specifically made AND authorized this “offer”?
If the Fourth Estate is uninterested in naming names or even seeking to discover such names or agencies, and the rest of the political class, of which the media is but a part, have NO interest in discovering who is behind this “offer”, then it must be assumed that NONE of the individuals who comprise the political class have ANY interest in clarifying ANY of what has gone on or of holding to ANY account those who have perpetrated the massive criminal fraud which has crippled this nation’s economy and and thrown millions of human beings to the wolves of cruel and vicious fate.
If this question of who is responsible for attempting to bribe California to go along with a wrist-slap and a get-out-of-jail for the “too-big”-to-fail” crowd, for clearly that is what this “offer” is intended to do, is allowed to slide … then an important opportunity to crack the whole rotten mess open will have been lost. Again, this seems the intent …
Now, any rational observer must conclude that if this question of “who?” is not pursued, vigorously and doggedly, then even more outrageous manipulation and deceit will surely follow.
Who made this “offer”? The “why” is blatantly obvious.
There are times when small threads, if pulled, will unravel an amazing amount.
The question of “who” is such a thread.
It needs to be “pulled”.
Thank you, DDay for Fire-doggedly pursuing the critical “threads”.
Pull away, DDay!!!
DW
My word. That’s quite a bribe ObamaLLP offered Harris. Reflects desperation beyond what has been publically admitted, IMO.
Did she turn it down because of ethics or because she’s observed Obama’s negociating methods and is quite sure she can get a better offer?
Boxturtle (ObamaLLP’s “deals” have sometimes left them with nothing but their socks)
They can keep it secret until after the election for sure. I’m guessing that regardless of who actually did it *cough* OBAMA *cough*, Timmeh will take that guilt away with him when Obama requests his resignation.
Timmeh is a good soldier. He’ll pretend Obama fires him and hope nobody remembers he said over a year ago he was probably going to leave.
Boxturtle (Don’t really care why Timmeh leaves, only that he does so)
& DWBartoo,
My guess is Geithner.
There was an item in headlines on democracynow this morning that Ken Feinberg, Special Master (specializing in rotten deals that is) is giving millions in exec comp to CEOs of TARP recipients, incl AIG. At the behest of (drum roll) Geithner.
Geithner has announced he won’t be staying for O’s second term.
” If I were the AGs of those other states, I’d be pissed that California is getting such special treatment.”
I think the foreclosure fraud settlement originators that are pushing this settlement to the state AG’s think that Kamala Harris is the weak link in the chain and so are pushing her harder than the rest. By offering her the $10 billion deal, she’ll be pressured by the other AG’s.
It’s no surprise that a successful AG is ripe for the governors office. She hasn’t, to my knowledge, mentioned running for said office, but it can’t be to far from her thoughts. If she were to successfully beat the banks, she would either be buried by the PTB or voted into the Governors office on the shoulders of the middle class.
There’s something even more rotten about the mortgages that we don’t know yet.
Or they want to get the deal done before campaigning begins in earnest so it won’t come up then.
What a choice. But you have accurately stated it.
Any AG who agreed to a deal where California got more than their state would be easy to vote out of office how many Dem vs GOPers agreed to this deal is my question. We can still use the fact they agreed to this deal to vote them out the GOP will certainly use this deal even if it did not pass.
The AG’s will respond we did not know us and the GOP will say bullshit! but lets suppose you did not know then if you did not know your too stupid and bought off by the banks to be AG.
I suspect that any AG who loses election will find a great job at a bank, a bank connected law firm or a company or law firm that owes the banks a favor.
See Newt’s deal with Freddie Mac to see just how great a deal you can get if you play ball.
Certainly it is Geithner … with Obama’s full consent and authority.
We, here, know that, or have very good reason to suspect that, eCAHN.
This BRIBE is directly from the White House.
Its purpose is to protect the “astute” and “natural” elite.
The point is simply that MOST Americans do NOT know or understand either the meaning, the intent, OR the names of those who are engaged in protecting the 1% to the cost, to the dire and deadly cost, of the 99%.
Henceforth it should be said, “The White House has made this ‘offer’, not for the good of the country, as they will undoubtedly claim, but to protect the elite, to cover up criminal activity, despite President Obama’s assurances that the ‘…banks did nothing illegal’, even as we know that the larger intent is to hinder or undermine ANY serious investigation of and application of justice to those responsible for the deep economic crisis and the assault upon the rule of law which the people of this nation are suffering … through NO fault of their own.”
It is time to seize the narrative, as OWS has clearly shown.
It is time to reassert the values necessary to a sustainable, decent, and humane civil society.
DW
DW!!!! The rumors of your death were an exaggeration. SO HAPPY to see your fonts after such a long absence, many of us who love you have been very worried about you. As well were we feeling deprived by losing the pleasure of your wit and wisdom. Personally, I was extremely distressed at the thought that I might have lost touch with you permanently, and have been kicking myself for never having asked you to establish some other means of contact. Would you be willing to swap emails with me, so that does not have to be a worry going forward? I use searcher1951 at gmail as a catch-all box, if you would contact me there I would give you my regular email. Care to give a hint as to where you’ve been investing your creative energies the last couple of months?
Don’t think so, I think most of the slime is out in the open. What isn’t out in the open is exactly how hard a non-solution would hit the banks books and if they can withstand the hit.
Citi and BofA are operating under secret understandings with the Treasury. I suspect those understandings say “Get small enough to fail and do it quick”. If the banks get hooked for all the money they really stole, I think those two (at least) die right then.
Boxturtle (Can’t have that. Gotta raise $1B for re-election)
On further reflection, I don’t see how such a deal could be processed.
The original deal is transparently out there for all to see.
+-$25bn to be split up between 50 states. I don’t see how the PTB could get away with promising one state 60% of the ‘take’ when they don’t have 60% of the liabilities. The other states would rebel instantly. Seems to me this ‘deal’ is just some kabuki that has been thrown at the wall to see if it would stick. Mainly to get Harris to accept.
Hopefully, Pamala Harris is too akamai to take the bait. But wouldn’t it be interesting if she did. Zreo would have put the second death nail to this coffin in three days!
Good point O wants to lock up California votes and delivering that big to California would go a long way to that end. But this is such an obvious bribe if the deal had worked O would be attacked in all the other states Newt and Mitt would have no problem attacking O for giving away our tax dollars to California ( California would become the new GOP code for Dark People).
An obvious bribe is stupid and not the Chicago way. Any thing that would cost you more votes than it gives is double plus stupid. Anything this obvious and stupid screams desperate I wonder what Obama’s private polling and his private economic forecasts for California are telling him.
I think even us tin foil hat types at the Lake are missing something big here something pushed O something he is scared will cost him California. Any ideas what?
It’s a payoff, and a poor one, at that. Harris is not grabbing the fig leaf dangled–there’s something totally rotten going on here, for a reason, and I have yet to hear this has become a major headliner.
Hate to see Scneiderman bought off. Not that we put any faith in officialdom’s *cough* principles…..Say it ain’t so, Eric!
Corruption, shot through the media-political-rentier bund.
Seems to me, if there were such a legally binding deal, two possible things would happen.
Either the states left out would call foul and pressure the originators of the deal and/or pressure Harris to reject the deal.
OR Harris would reject the deal outright and continue with her investigations.
I just don’t see Guitner et all having the balls to even publicaly offering such an deal. Doesn’t seem legal.
This is all about keeping the banksters out of jail, and they will pay any amount of someone else’s money to do it. $25 billion in shareholder money so that no one goes to jail and no one gets fired for causing trillions in economic damage. That’s the only thing this “settlement” is about.
Q“… O something he is scared will cost him California. Any ideas what?”
A Kamala Harris investigating the banks.
On Edit: Because Zero didn’t
25 billion to clear 700 billion in fraudulent MERS transactions that by-passed county recording fees and clear titles to property. think of all the county revenue lost to MERS fraud! bet it’s much more than 3/10′s cent on the dollar the NY AG’s “commission” is offering. Probably a coincidence that NY AG’s co-chairs devised the MERS fraud.
First, I do not trust Florida on anything legal. Bondi does not have a record that is without controversy when it comes to the foreclosure crisis.
Second, California is the eighth largest economy in the world. The whole world needs California to see the justice and financial concerns of this bad settlement. Harris is quite right on her stance. Her accepting this poor deal creates another round of the domino effect for the global economy.
While California was promised a sizeable portion (relative to the total of this chump change deal), do we know how big the problem really is in CA? Good for Harris. Not only does she appear to be working for the people, this also happens to be the smart move, politically…at least to my pea-brain way of thinking.
Then again, Jamie Dimon says that settling would be good for America. So I have to be missing something, somewhere…
Do you really think she might thats good news but any reasons why I should believe it? I don’t want to get my hopes up.
Where is Nevada’s AG in all this? I thought she was taking a hard line way back when?
It’s already known. It just hasn’t gotten TeeVee time.
OWS. Making the pariah 1% irrelevant.
Try finding the Feinberg payoff to TARP CEOs covered anywhere but Gonzales. He said on democracynow this morning that he hasn’t seen it covered anywhere else; I forget what he said about how he found out. I think he just read the IG report. The corp media understand what they should ignore.
Any ideas about that? What’s your perception of the commercial piece? I’m still seeing a whole lot of unoccupied buildings, and someone’s holding the bag on them. Has that shoe dropped yet?
We don’t yet know for sure that Scneiderman is bought. If that was true I doubt any of the other AG’s would continue to resist.
The TBTF banks need immunity from prosecution for past and present crimes. They need a deal that establishes “if a banker does it it’s not illegal”. A few State AG’s are holding out and they deserve our support and gratitude.
TCU,
I would like to believe there is at least one person left with smarts and integrity. I put those hopes in Obama and was thrown against the wall.
I sticking my neck out again.
This time I am leaving room for disappointment.
As with Schneiderman, time will tell, and it won’t be long.
The holdout by Delaware’s son of former Senator MBNA must be looked at with suspicion.
Oh bullshit. The bribe is from the banks that are facing the very real threat of criminal charges and liabilities well in excess of $15 billion in California. Obama, evil or not, and Geithner of the New York Fed, has little to do with it.
I love the way when it filters through the lens of this place everything becomes about the imperial guy, instead of what it is. These three banks have everything to lose out here. BofA bought Countrywide. Do you have any idea how many bad loans Countrywide shoved down the throats of Californians? Or Wells Fargo? Do you have any idea how much building was going on out here? Half of San Diego was built during the boom and that isn’t an exaggeration. People in Silicon Valley were paying in some cases 2/3 of their income on their housing and that was somehow qualifying for these non-standard balloon loans. Property values in some places have slid by 1/3 to 1/2 or more, there are houses with weeds all over the place, and 4000 businesses went belly up in the Valley in one year in 2010.
The banks have means, motive, and opportunity in spades to do the bribe all by themselves. Kamala Harris is going to bust the banks because $15 billion and no jail time simply isn’t enough. Not to a California that never got their money back or any jail time out of Enron.
I think every foreclosure should start at a court proceeding where the note and recorded title have to be presented. period.
Of course, that means instant down-sizing of the banksters, but there’d be a great employment boom in tracing, clearing and recording titles. I bet the idea would go well with people that believe in individual property rights.
About Pam Bondi.
Have you ever noticed that when the issues are ‘debated’ on the evening news programs, the person arguing for what might be called We The People, is inevitibly an unatractive dweeb with poor communication skills, and the person arguing the corporatist angle is a young, attractive, and articulate blonde woman?
There is a never ending suppy of people like Pam Bondi, whose motivations are all centered around their prospects for career enhancing moves.
All the hicks watching at home believe that the right thing to do is listen to the smart pretty one.
You know, if Oilbumblerbomber would just clean out the banks and prosecute these criminals, he’d earn the respect of so many Americans. But he has no balls.
ghost @ 26: see my #21
DW good to see you back *g* I have missed your fonts. Good day to you.
Oilbomber is complicit, dude. Bully pulpit and all that, right? C’mon.
The recent revelations by Reuters (and Cynthia Kouril and DDay here late last week) about Holder and Breuer actually coming from the law firm that OK’d the MERS system, PLUS the fact that the statute of limitations for many possible ciminal and private prosecutions must be close upon us (or already past) has raised a VERY dangerous red flag for the Obummer re-election effort. I would think that any events sought to be interpreted should be viewed primarily thru the lens of these factors.
I meant to include that I think you are seeing this very clearly. “g”
Holder is corrupt. And so is most of the “Justice” Dept. The wolves are in the henhouse, not guarding it. Obama, by not doing a thing, is worse.
My imagination is not rich enough to stretch as far as what prolly happened. Insiders now at high places in govt has been suggested above. Foreign connections, like Saudis? Who knows. Many scurrilous things in the past have been hidden for decades.
Bullshit is it?
Perhaps, ondelette, you are correct, perhaps the “money” that has been “put up” for this rather blatant bribe in California is from the banks. However, it IS the White House which has put the “offer” on the table, else we have a shadow government so certain of its own safety and power that it dictates everything done by the political class and especially this White House.
Again, I say, pull this thread … it is one that will lead to a very large unravelling of the story, the fabrications, and the Lie.
It matters not whence comes the bribe so long as the thread is followed; “follow the money” is the pathway to understanding what has gone on … and what is intended.
Do you suggest that the White House is NOT involved, that the banks, the three you mention, have, on their own, tendered this “offer” without the knowledge, encouragement, and support of the White House?
All the more reason then, to pull the thread.
Do you not agree with that?
DW
Who coulda guessed the banana republic lawyer would be corrupt. Some at FDL certainly did when O appointed him.
Is Jerry “moonbeam” Brown a significant player in this? Remember Harris works for him. He is just loopy enough to hold out for truth and justice.
The whole deck of cards hinges on the mortgage fraud. If exposed, with all the dirty laundry aired out, the American people would have zero trust in the gov’t to protect them, if they had any trust in the first place. Oilybomber need to make this deal. The AGs, closer to their constituents on the ground, have obviously not bitten because, well, some of them believe in the rule of law. Imagine that! It’s Oilybomber’s hope that he can muddy the waters, and appeal to base partisanship. That’s all the Wizard of O is: a base hack making deals for rich criminals who screw over the common man.
“everything becomes about the imperial guy”
Of course. It’s the domino theory of prosecution.
And do you suppose that Calfornia doesn’t have a large fraction of realtors, bankers, insurers, … who make up the 2%?
I forget who it was said that California was willing to go to war over Enron and the electricity price rigging. With the housing bubble, you have a lot of in-state compradors who profited. I don’t hear the war talk, this time.
Capitalism is the crime, comrade.
DW wails that we’re not
That’s because scavengers have a arrangement with “perpetrators”. If you go after the Godfather’s, it threatens the whole ecosystem.
The rot is rooted in the domestic comprador’s religion.
This whole piece is off point and quite frankly, irresponsible. First, why all the talk of negative equity, when that is not at all what this settlement is about? This settlement is a catch all fraud settlement which will immunize the banks from prosecution for any of the fraud they perpetrated. It has nothing to do with who or who may not be “underwater.”
The amount of potential fraud and resulting damages out there is well into the trillions of dollars, so any AG pushing any other AG, or agreeing with this proposal, is nothing more than a hack for large banks, period.
Yes there is something else.
From Ellen Brown at Truthout;
This was described as a working hypothesis, but it sounds pretty much like the sort of thing we should expect to find.
Ya’ know…….she photographs very well for a woman who is not particularly attractive, don’t you think???
I don’t believe for a moment that the banks are putting up the money. The whole point is to get the taxpayer to pay it. Or as Peasant Party says: How many times are we going to pay for these houses.
Yes she does, but remember, it won’t be her sitting in the MSM TV studio arguing our case in the court of public opinion.
I got people who know people who say we WILL taaake anothe big hit when the “commercial property bubble” bursts. Here in Houston, where things are better than most othere places, we got so much vacant commercial office/retail space it would choke a horse. And they are stil building. We bought two office buildings in 2008 that were 86% ocupied. Now they are down to 54% and 62% respectively.
I have only seen photos and you were under the weather so I’ll give you a break. Remember who was AG in California before Harris? This could be interesting because I think Banksters want this settlement before austerity really kicks in in Europe and shit is hitting fans all over Swiss, Luxemborg, and Cayman bank accounts.
Obama is worse than Nixon. Nixon covered up a petty break-in. Obama is basically covering up trillions of dollars of fraud. We all know it. I’m sure even in their heart of hearts the Obamabots know it. It’s depressing. It’s depressing because we have so little power to change it. I fear that the whole unstable system will crumble very soon. It seems inevitable.
Thanks for the sentiment. I think ?!.
Indeed, I’m still catching up. I don’t know about Switzerland or Luxembourg, but in the heat and humidity of the Caymans, when the shit hits the fan it gets smelly real quick…..
OT.
To rc, popyeye, all those here gathered;
I have been on a sabbatical of sorts, talking with people, doing things like plastering the walls of my house and working on my own writings, a bit of which I soon hope to fashion into a wee diary.
While I have not been commenting for some period, I have perused these thoughful and honest threads when time has so permitted … To you and to all of my many friends, here at FDL, I apologize for any worries which my absence, these last weeks, may have caused. Frankly, I find, at times, the need to do real and physical things while my mind seeks to fashion such small understandings as I may muster. The daily assaults of insanity, which seems to be our current lot are more bearable with such company as those here provide, yet I sometimes grow weary of the daily surprise and outrage as the patterns are clear enough and the solution(s) require a sense of selflessness and deeper purpose which we each must find within ourselves as well as the courage to manifest such understandings with our own skin, carrying our own bones into the fray … as everyone here well knows.
I count myself most fortunate to have such friends as I find here, for your love, your encouragement, and your understanding are the truest stuff of life and living. I appreciate each and everyone at FDL far, far more than my words shall ever be able to convey.
DW
That’s more like another detail on stuff we already know. I’m not denigrating it. Implications of things you already know are important and insightful & lead to other possibilities. In this case, it looks like it might be the ‘intentionality’ of the fraud that is being uncovered. IANAL, but I have often seen typed that intention is the most difficult part of a criminal case to prove.
So that could be it.
Or that and something we really don’t know about yet. All options are possible.
I agree with you, eCAHN, merely hoping that ondelette might grasp the notion that pulling the thread is what it is about.
DW
Or, because a Demon-rat president is more closely tied to the profiteers. Oil owns one phase, Ponzi the next. Keep turning until the screw is sunk.
The comprador religion is dead; the priests always know before the parisioners.
All you’ll get is bougie spectacle until the street scenes, coming to a playhouse near you.
Getting plastered, have you. *g* Sounds like a worthwhile enterprise. Welcome back.
How many AG’s other than California have the Governor clearly on their side? This could be the achilles heel of the master plan.
California blows up the settlement and could headman a suit that is easily ten times the proposed settlement. Countrywide(BofA) has much of that liability and this could be the death blow to them.
I can only hope.
Take the next step, and recognize that all these mortgages wound up getting bundled into MBS securities, mostly under NY law, which very strictly requires that title to all assets must be perfected and delivered into the trust in full at the moment the trust is created. No going back later to remedy any defects or omissions. That means that trillions of MBS marketed aggressively throughout the world, and hundreds of trillions of credit default swaps based on them, may all be endangered by the institution of the MERS system. It’s hair on fire time in DC and the bank boardrooms, I would think.
My first AGILF lol. (Missing that trade yesterday was no laughing matter, though. :-( )
I do think you’re onto something. As the ever-wise BT mentioned up there @ 4, there is the powerful odor of desperation emanating from this.
That is serious, and you are seriously correct. The commercial RE market has been a huge shoe waiting to drop for a long time.
Ludwig, as it happens I have found your comments to be much concerned with precisely what seems needful: an understanding of the values or principles of a political economy.
Few today realize that capitalism was initally perceived (after the French Revolution) as the means by which to bring about equality and brotherhood, to move beyond the brutality of slavery and and the serfdom of feudalism.
Adam Smith perceived a bit of the truth of things with his “Vile Maxim” but ’twas Marx who laid bare the “nature” of the “values” of capitalism.
We see its full fruit today when, “Money is ALL that matters” … and some understand that such a “value” will destroy not merely civil society but the capacity of planet earth to support human life.
The issue we must strive to encourage others to recognize is that governments derive their legitimate existence ONLY from the consent of the governed, and ANY government which does as the government of the United States is doing, from pursuing endless war to destroying the Rule of Law, across the board, is not legitimate.
Such an understanding was required before this nation could come into being and such an understanding is necessary to our present … for the future depends upon new governments of, by, and for the people … not just in this nation but around the world.
DW
I let out a lonnnnnnng breath of air when I saw that “DWBartoo” sig. So, you’ve been plastering? Well, I’ve got a wee wall here that needs plastering and could sure use your expertise in getting that done (I’m real good with the stuff that comes in the spray can, but not so much with applying the plaster). Seriously, please let us know when you’re taking a sabbatical since that will save us from anxiety about the state of your health.
Welcome back, at last!
Real nonresidential construction nationwide, which fell 21% in 09 and another 14% in 10, rose 4% last year.
DW! Glad to see you – we were all concerned. No more running away from home with out leaving a note. :)
Understood, DW, and thanks for the explication. My primary concern has been to know that you are healthy. I believe many of us are experiencing the same emotional response to ongoing current events as you describe, and we must each deal with it in our own way. Just please know that you are much loved and much missed here, and please be generous enough to share yourself with us as often as seems appropriate and desirable to you. I think you know that some of us feel a very special emotional connection with you, and I am one of those. So, I will be continuing to love you whether you are near or far. ((DW)) P.S. wendydavis has expressed a special interest in your situation, and I promised to pass that on to you if I got the chance.
One wag, a long time ago, remarked that the diff betw capitalism and communism is that capitalism is a dog eat dog world, whereas communism is the opposite.
It’s not the nature of the economic system (I’ve argued for a mixed one for decades) so much as the nature of political leadership and the political aspects of the system.
Forty-five percent of mortgages under water in FL, last I heard; 54% in the Orlando area. Bondi just wants action now! /s
“repos are the “deposit insurance” for the shadow banking system”
The last paragraph is a doozie but deposit insurance is the wrong metaphor. It’s more like the 99% stake in the scam. F*** with us and you’ll loose it.
Brown sells patent medicine.
I know you know about dead cat bounces. “g”
Hey, so glad that there has been a sighting and slight reunion. We miss your wisdom and kindness and welcome you anytime. Thanks for checking in. Bev
My reading of that piece is slightly different.
If the bundled mortgages were properly registered with the trust, they couldn’t be used as collateral to finance the ‘shadow’ banking system.
What they’re describing is two (2) massive frauds, one on the investors who paid for MBS that don’t exist by virtue of the fact that the underlying trust didn’t actually contain the mortgages, and the related but separate use of those very mortgages to fuel the ‘shadow’ bank system necessary to prop up the rest of the rotten-to-the-core financial sector.
Now add to that the fraudulent behavior related to foreclosures. What we have is an ongoing and seemingly never-ending crime spree and the attendant cover-up.
It’s sort of like three-card-Monty, guess where the mortgage paper is?
1. Legally assigned to a REMIC trust?
2. Held as collateral backing an inter-bank loan?
3. in a landfill, after having been shredded?
4. All of the above?
I’m betting it’s #4.
That is why calling it “political economy”, as was once the case, is a truer and more honest means of identifying the way in which societies recognize and divvy-up the resources necessary to life, eCAHN.
We have too long pretended that there is a separation, a distinction between how a society is governed and the nature of its economic “system”.
I imagine you shall have to speak (and educate) even more in future. I, for one, shall be paying (as I do) close attention to whatever you care to share.
DW
So sorry, I should have realized that you were already seeing the bigger picture. “g”
Ah yes, “intent”, eCAHN.
I walked into a crowded theatre and yelled, “Fire!!!”
Now, my intent was merely to clear the theatre so that I might find a seat to my liking …
I simply cannot imagine what all the subsequent fuss has been about.
It is quite amazing really, and further, had I not done it, then someone else would surely have done so …
DW
Even as a teenager, it was apparent to me that the most sensible way to structure an economy was as a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Similarly, when I studied psychology in the 70s with the intention of beecoming a therapist, I felt that the best path was to adopt the best aspects of the various approaches, and not buy entirely into any one. I would generalize, and say that it seems to me that true balance often lies in the middle of a continuum (duh!), but that in real life, the best leverage and advantage for individual players is often found far away from the center and as close as possible to the extremes. Just another way of saying that contrarians can find advantages over the herd. Of course, the situation that most favors those extremist contrarians also tends to be the one that is least favorable to the herd, i.e., the majority. That is, as always, the fundamental choice any society must deal with: For whose benefit does, and should, society exist? For me, it’s always been clear that the majority is the correct answer, hence my devotion to the consent of the governed and rule of law concepts, which have at present been almost completely abandoned by our leaders.
That’s exactly where our understanding of the crime stood as of 2-3 years ago, so what I’m sharing with you is the next step.
The problem you describe would be the same if the bankers had simply been sloppy or ‘forgot’ to properly assign the mortgages for whatever reason.
What Ellen Brown is describing is an additional facet of the crime, which at this time is sort of speculative, but makes a lot of sense.
While the banks that securitized all those millions of mortgages and supposedly sold them to investors, they were actually busy trading them among themselves as if they were cash.
Those mortgages can be held in trust as MBS owned by a particular investor, or they can be fungible assets traded back and forth like cash, but they cannot be both at the same time.
What a gem that last sentence was. LOLOLOL
Capitalism, as practiced now in the U.S. and communism, as practiced in the U.S.S.R., both put economic power in the hands of a few. Corruption is inescapable under those circumstances.
Not anywhere near Smith’s atomistic competitors as producers, though there are atomistic customers and workers, which further distorts the power structure.
One could argue that Smith construct was always artificial and doomed never to work in the real world, but one could argue equally that that communism is an artificial construct that could never work in the real world, owing to the fact that people ARE greedy.
I was trying to bring in the credit default swap aspect, but, yes, I see now what you were focusing on. I already acknowledged at #80 my awareness that I had underestimated you. “g” Never again.
Thus, societies have the right AND the obligation to protect themselves from those who would amass either great, concentrated power OR “wealth”.
It is this understanding which has somehow heen removed from the “mix”, rc, and that MUST become fundamental to whatever we might fashion from the ashes … should we be afforded that opportunity.
(You and I have travelled more than one or two very similar pathways, rc, it would seem …)
;~DW
Nothing to be sorry about RC.
It would drive anybody crazy trying to keep track of the stuff these criminals dream up.
As far as I’m concerned, the Carlyle Group sold America’s space program to the Chinese after the Challenger blew up.
But if we can’t get our heads around the fact that the banks have stolen our homes, we’re never going to understand the rest of the crazy shit they’ve been doing.
Nice to see you again, my friend.
You are absolutely right about Marx’s wanting a society based on equality, brotherhood and freedom. He was sorely disappointed that France and America could not turn the ideals of the French Revolution into reality.
Feurae of the South sends his greetings and best wishes to Feurae of the North.
That’s all well and good, but capitalists couldn’t be happier when they wreak total havoc on the lives of the little people and the little people respond by being angry not at them, but at the government that is the only obstacle with the power to reign in the capitalists.
Thanks for biting, DW.
Yes, we’re always dealing in lesser of evil arguments which mask the truth. Capitalists did, cynically, extend this salvation. The anarchy of power simply moved from behind the King’s visage into the hidden hand.
Your crie de couer, “governments derive their legitimate existence ONLY from the consent of the governed” is an encouraged faith, a bond that power illusioned but now wills to rent(tear). The powerful besiege the Government AND sell the bad faith. So, what happens when governments only have illegitimate existence, i.e. when all have lost faith? That nugget lay rotting in the pudding from the start.
The powerful have spent a great deal of time on their answers.
Are people greedy or are they taught to be greedy?
I ask that as one who studied psychology, and suggest that greed is a pathology reflective of fear and inadequecy rather than “hard-wired” into the species, as it has, overall, little social “value” except in socieities removed from nature and at a distasnce from the means ansd sources of life, where brutal “competition” is justified as “human nature”.
Otherwise, eCAHN, I quite agree with your notions of too much power in the hands of a few, the “extremes” and suggest it represents precisely what rc was talking about @ 82.
The question is this: Why does society permit the few to rule? Ten thousand years of “evidence”, what we call “history”, must make clear to any who care to see … that it is time to change this particular and peculiar pattern.
DW
The Divine Right of Kings is become the Divine Right of Money.
DW
“People ARE greedy” is the moralism of the comprador, comrade. Capitalism amplifies, nay, venerates, greed as the hook to blame the losers of the power game.
Even if you could have an objective measure of greed, it would explain nothing except the extenuating circumstance.
BS,
The AG position in CA is through the ballot box.
I think Pamala Harris can do what she wants.
Hopefully it will be to investigate, charge and prosecute the bankers…
You have no idea how much I have missed you, my friend.
Ah, SD.
Truth to tell … ’twas the lectures on Marxism you put up for our purusal which, in part, impelled me to take the sabbatical, as Marx is concerned with precisely what I have been trying to convey regarding the values and principles of civil society … for such values determine the nature of a society’s economic “system” and, as well, its political and social realities.
Feurae of the North, sends greetings and much appreciation to Feurae of the South, as do I, SD, to you.
Oft have I stopped by the Diner, long after you and the dinerzens (ht, rc) have scattered to your various tasks and partaken of joyful and insightful moments, for which I thank you all.
;~DW
Just enough moments to have caught up on the comments and now to join the other pups in saying,
Hey, hey, Mr. Bartoo.
You are like a voice crying in the wildnerness. (Nice coat ya got there.)
One that everyone wants to hear. Well, a lot of people, anyway. :)
“Why does society permit the few to rule?” Because that’s the competitive strategy of the authoritarians in the lot and the rest can mostly be bamboozled. If you’re not authoritarian and aren’t bamboozled, woe be unto you.
Well, I’ve always recognized you to be one of the most knowledgeable and insightful commenters here on these issues, so I should have read more carefully. And, yes, you are right, the complexity would drive anybody crazy, and I’m quite sure that is a feature, not a bug. :-(
If this just-in my.fdl post by Alan Grayson is true, Kamala needs protection, because the banksters have a lot more at stake here than they did in this Cleveland attempt on Dennis Kucinich’s life.
Gov. Brown was the AG and his views are known, he is on her side. Does NV or FL or NY have a Gov allied in spirit if not more with their AG?
I have long held the belief that low self esteem, as we call it, is responsible for much more of human behavior than is popularly imagined or acknowledged. And I see greed as one of the under-recognized manifestations of that dynamic, in that the acquisitor tells himself that having the trappings of material success around him will convince observers that he must have a high intrinsic value after all. When one adds up all the costs of greed to the society at large, it becomes quite clear that we’d be better off giving therapy to these people at a young age.
Is that “code” for “invest in shoes”????? Rebok, Nike, Thom McCann???
The Diner is a great new thing, isn’t it? Why do folks always say it’s so hard to get a new business going lol?
Funny you should bring that up. I was having a lengthy and adversarial conversation with my little sister the other day. My conclusion, greed is indeed “learned”, not inherited. But one thinkg that has changed, thanks to Gordon Gekko, is that greed is now acceptable in much of our society and, even, admired and rewarded.
We gotta remedy that.
The key is simple. Put marijuana in the brownies.
Does anyone really have a clear title to their property? I wonder if I do. What people like Eric Holder did was systematically make it possible for the capitalist oink oinks to speculate using our houses. If title is murky, then you really don’t own your house and hence the criminals can do what they like with the property. Obama appoints Holder. What does that say? It says Obama is also a fucking crook. Don’t tell me he didn’t know what Holder did w/MERS.
I’m pissed off. These scumbags should all be in jail. They are sucking our hard earned money from us bit by bit. The Obamabots are dupes. Seriously. Useful idiots. They look the other way at this rank corruption.
AGILF……friggin hilarious.
..
..
Although it took me a little while.
..
Hey, I was on a “conference call” and a little distracted.
I’m always facinated by nature vs. nuture discussions.
You take two sisters, same parents, maybe one’s a little prettier, maybe one’s a little smarter, but in the end they may end up to have very different views and values.
Seems to me, it’s gotta be a little of both.
“regarding the values and principles of civil society”:
The many who profit from fairy tales and then blame corruption … they are part of the problem.
Capitalism pays homage to the anarchy of the market and so must the capitalist state. It always leads to devastation, no matter how many times the dim-witted cry, “Corruption”.
Growth is no longer the escape valve, so all excuses are gone.
Now, let see if I get this right; The state gets a %, the bankesters get a %, and the homeowner gets what? I think I may have the answer, but I need help grasping it.
You are right.
There are two timetables.
This settlement must be completed before the election takes place
and before the European crisis takes down the banking ‘industry.,
There is another element to look at regarding self esteem. I heard a lecture several years ago studying the natural Human desire to show off. Maybe it is tangential to greed but not quite the same.
I wear size 14 or 15, so when I say “huge shoe” you better take it seriously lol.
Forehead palm. I haven’t tried the brownies yet.
OK, except you left out that the acquisitor is encouraged to seek material status by the aristocracy’s plan. It is in the system. So, comrade, where is the most immorality?
It looks like if they can,t come up with the paper work, they are in deep shit.
Absolutely right. But, of course, the Obamabots will tell you that they are the “smart” ones, and that you just had a defective childhood and are still longing for that pony you never got.
I continue to nurse the hope that someday you will share with us that which you DO believe in.
When the shit finally settles, and when the whole thing collapses, I wonder whether we’ll get a Great Reformer or just some a-hole like Obama again. Because basically the US gov’t is going to have to take possession of most, if not all, US mortgages if there is systemic fraud found re title, etc. How else can they inspire confidence in the system?
My feeling is that there won’t be a Great Reformer and we’ll get more of the same. Hence, we really will need a brand new system.
Have any of you seen the HuffPo story on what the new deal will contain. Supposedly it’s only a release on robo-signing! How does this tie in with the speculation regarding unassigned trust docs, the repo market, etc? (Seems to me it fits right in.)
In fact, it is in their nurture AND nature to diversify. The question is, who most benefits from greed?
Some showing off may be healthy and useful, but surely much of it is compensation for low self-esteem? At least, that is my belief.
I AM AN OCCUPIER.
Again, it would be important to walk through what would happen to the global economy as well as the CA and US economy if CA were to accept the offer. AG Harris is smart to stand her ground. CA is the eighth largest global economy. The state holds much financial concern for all.
OK, that’s helpful. Thank you.
The last Great Reformer predated on the failing competition of lesser capitalists. You are the failing capitalists, this time.
You will get no more.
Well said.
And then, the intellectual twits suggest that we have reached the “end” of history, that order has been firmly established and America’s horizons are limitless …
Yet a Sunstein is still necessary to ensure that the “Official History” admits of neither doubt nor failure.
This is rather akin to saying that so long as a deliberately destroyed complex society has a vestige of “hierarchial order”, it cannot be said to have “collapsed” … there being no requirement of either civility or civilization.
Ludwig, your comments and perspectives are much appreciated.
DW
“They are sucking our hard earned money from us bit by bit.”
It has always been thus.
Who’s the dupe?
No matter how much you show liberals that the corruption is a 2 party affair the harder they cling to their beliefs. It’s like the tea baggers and socialism. A few of us see through the bullshite, but not enough–and the politicians count on that. When Oilbomber reads these threads–and I’m sure he or his lackeys do–they must laugh. Laugh at our impotence.
And thank Noodles for you, DW.
A fine criteria, but a caveat: The definers of the hierarchy ARE the civilization; everybody else can go to hell.
California may be only 6th place in negative equity, but it’s got a commanding lead in new foreclosures.
http://www.realtytrac.com/trendcenter/trend.html
Tell ‘em to call back. You have other important business to attend to…
Yes, it’s one of the Liberals’ cognitive biases. After all, selfishness IS the greater good.
A colossal mind****, my friend.
The one piece of “paperwork” that basically settles “who owns the property and who owns the mortgage” is the signed “note” that secures the mortgage. The signers of the note owe the money to whoever negotiated the mortgage or the recorded assignment of the mortgage with the possession of the note.
MERS = mortgage electronic registration system. It was devised to avoid recording fees, etc., but financially it is no more than the purchases on your credit card statement. I.E. it hasn’t transferred the title or mortgage.
I’ll go you one further, Ludwig.
Should this nation continue it murderous ways, killing others and destroying their means of existence, then not only will the civilian population of this nation, this “Homeland”, be crushingly impoverished, they may well become pulverised … for it was said on Attaturk’s post, this very morning, that killing the civilian population is appropriate to encourage a nation’s “leadership” to change its destructive behavior …
“They” do NOT hate us for our “freedoms” … they rightfully have the obligation of stopping us because we are killing human beings all over the world and rendering the planet incapable of sustaining human life.
“Turnabout” is fair “play” … however much Americans, even those here, at FDL, refuse to “believe” that we might suffer, in fact deserve to suffer, the same fate as Nazi Germany, for example, which nation we resemble even more terrifyingly than many may yet imagine.
DW
At least I’ve achieved the clarity that henceforth I shall express my impotence by voting for neither major party. That will at least FEEL less impotent. And maybe, like singing a bar of Alice’s Restaurant, it will become a movement. ;-)
The Iron Fist always works pretty well, too.
By the way, “recorded note and mortgage” together is the key here: I could sign a note posing as owner of the house I’m renting, but you’d have a hard time foreclosing on it.
By the way, that’s what the banks have been doing: fraudulently posing as legitimate holders of the “recorded note and mortgage” when they obviously are not. Witness the countless County Clerks across the nation pointing this out.
Many people have given up on the system; the more, the better. The one thing they can’t control completely is perception. Yes, there is a vast propaganda system in place to keep people pacified and dumb. But people are not happy. They can’t manufacture happiness, though they try through the cult of consumption. But after a while, people yearn for meaning in their lives. The US is so bankrupt spiritually something has to give. I don’t know what form it will take, but a spiritual void spells doom for the Elites. Their very legitimacy is at stake now, and they know it.
Very, very well said!
DW
I think people do take you seriously.
With or without the 14′s or 15′w.
I just wonder if you take seriously how some may interpret your comments.
Thank you, David, for an excellent post as usual — don’t know how you do it!
Superior writing and extremely informative — you’re my “newspaper.”
karen
EXTREMELY well said.
demi, this seems to be a constant concern of yours recently. I know that my intentions are pretty pure, and I think most people I play with know when I’m playing (admittedly, my sense of humor is a little offbeat, but not beyond what one can get used to, hopefully), but, if you think we should talk about it, then let’s talk. We can do it off-site if you wish. Just let me know. I’d rather talk it out than get these unexpected “jabs” from you every few days. Seriously.
Interesting, but I think the course is entirely different. The “anti-NAZI” NAZI’s won. Terrorism is so useful because it justifies the crushing of resistance international AND domestic.
The wars of punishment suit the 10%’s presumption: people must die. One of the 10% confided only the goal to me. He stopped when he thought better of it.
So one must see this murderous cynicism in all the propaganda. The drive to remain the superpower is the new power virus. The alternative is made more and more horrifying, necessitating the spiral. People will wish they had absolved themselves of the lie of greed when they become so abased as to believe in kill or be killed.
There will be no hope and change for them then.
I didn’t mean it as a jib. I meant it as a kind question.
Something that might help. Sorry if I’m off beat.
No, absolutely not, about taking this offline.
Best of luck to you, of course.
“my sense of humor is a little offbeat”. It’s ok, comrade. A little scolding should do.
Oh, yes, in PS, as I reread your comment.
This is not a constant concern of mine.
Make No mistake.
I have my hands full at the moment. For postive things.
If I say something to you about inapproriate behavior, it’s about the Health of Our FDL community.
Do what you will.
(Looking for another reason for a sabbatical for me from this place is so much easier when you’re like this.)
Yes, but you don’t hear much talk anymore about the iron cage. Where are the ones who are aware and resigned? They don’t even have the fighters’ backs.
Truly, the population of American Stockholmers is vast. Something more than the fist alone keeps them down. It being a “democracy”, so far it’s still mostly carrot lies and stick “rewards”, even while the cage is shrinking.
But yes, the fist will come.
rc…….WOW! I thought it was a “given” that everyone knew that everybody with a size 14-15 shoe HAD to have a good sense of humor. She must be really upset about Ashton. :-)
Ditto.
The feeling is mutual. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya have to do. No explanations are necessary my friend. It is good to have you back sharing your words of wisdom.
Plus, there are avengers looking to scramble the brains of the “Anti-NAZI” killing machine. The US dreamed up neutron bombs to save the properties (thank you JC for killing that); the next would-be liberators are killing the machines, instead.
Check out Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc. (MERS). This is a private company that works to expedite real estate transactions.
Wikipedia (in an article flagged for possible bias):
“The real estate law and real estate transactions in the US are subject to state regulations and county level recordation requirements, since the time of the establishment of the US as an independent country.[citation needed] That made it quite cumbersome for financial companies to develop a smooth operation of a market based on US mortgages in the early 1980s.[says who?] This is because every time a financial instrument containing mortgages is sold, various state laws may require that the sale of each such mortgage (or deed of trust) be recorded in the local county courts in order to preserve certain rights (e.g., the right to foreclose non-judicially), which triggers an obligation to pay corresponding recording fees.[citation needed]
[NOTE]So, the financial industry eager to trade in Mortgage-backed security needed to find a way around these recordation requirements, and this is how MERS was born to replace public recordation with a private one.”
As a result of MERS’ involvement in these transactions, the question of who holds the title of homes that are being foreclosed have in 1000s of cases become extremely murky. Many homeowners have successfully fought against foreclosure based on this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/business/06mers.html?pagewanted=all
I am lucky to live in Missouri. The law here requires a mortgage to be registered with a Title company and mortgage insurance must be provided. My mortgage even though I refinanced and it was sold I still have the original paperwork. I did not use my house as an ATM but received a lower interest rate. My mortgage finally wound up with Fannie/Freddie with CitiMortgage as the servicer. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.
demi, this has been a repetitive thing with you, I’ve addressed it, and thought we were fine, and it keeps coming back around. So, if you don’t want to resolve it here or elsewhere (and your comment about “luck” is hard to read as anything but a deliberate attempt at provocation), then please just don’t be my monitor, cuz you’re the only one here who has expressed the need to address any inappropriateness that you are seeing. And if you need a sabbatical, stop trying to make me the reason for it, and just take one.
OK people, I must say I am proud of my AG Kamala HARRIS for pushing back crooks working for Banks and President Obama. In the next step, we would like to see Kamala Harris, instead of Jan Brewer, standing in front of Obama, Tim Gaithner and bankers and pointing finger (that will be the middle finger). Way to go AG Harris. You have our support
https://picasaweb.google.com/113005265612162679430/JanBrewer_Obama?authkey=Gv1sRgCOPbi_GDhZXBPQ#5702471171754043506
http://articlestosee.blogspot.com/2012/01/brewing-with-jan-brewer-and-president.html
That’s probably because I didn’t see your nasty comments on TBogg’s thread until long after you’d made them.
I’m not your monitor either, but perhaps you should think about what you are being told…
Well, in fairness, TBogg hates me and I have nothing but scorn for him. I never engage with him or his readers unless he shows up on the front page. In my dealings with him, which are never more than occasional, he has more to be ashamed of than I do. He has used his access to my personal information to attack me, and has mocked me for my age. He dishes it out real good, but cannot take his own treatment, and has actually banned me for giving him what he loves to give to others. I piss on him, and his cockydoodypishy mentality. Now, if you have any complaints about my behavior in the FDL venue, with anyone who is trying to be a genuine human being, as opposed to how I deal with that scat merchant, I’d be more than willing to listen to them.