Glenn Greenwald had a good story yesterday about continuing human rights abuses in Libya, and how you cannot justify interventions on “humanitarian” grounds without being concerned about what you leave behind. There’s more indication of that today with this ugly situation described by Doctors Without Borders:
Doctors Without Borders has suspended its work in prisons in the Libyan city of Misrata because it said torture was so rampant that some detainees were brought for care only to make them fit for further interrogation, the group said Thursday [...]
The allegations, which come more than three months after former leader Moammar Gadhafi was captured and killed, were an embarrassment to the governing National Transitional Council, which is struggling to establish its authority in the divided nation.
Doctors Without Borders said that since August, its medical teams have treated 115 people in Misrata who bore torture-related wounds, including cigarette burns, heavy bruising, bone fractures, tissue burns from electric shocks and kidney failure from beatings. Two detainees died after being interrogated, the group’s general director said.
“Patients were brought to us in the middle of interrogation for medical care, in order to make them fit for further interrogation. This is unacceptable,” MSF general director Christopher Stokes said in a statement. “Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions.”
So you have torture and murder happening to detainees in Libya. And the dynamic of beating a prisoner, sending him to a human rights organization for treatment, only so he recuperates enough to beat him again, is quite medieval. And remember that a lot of this mistreatment comes against not only Gadhafi loyalists fighting in the civil war, but sub-Saharan black Africans “suspected” of collaboration with Gadhafi. There’s a racial component to this that almost certainly means innocent victims are being tortured and abused.
The Transitional National Council will probably disavow control over militias in Misrata, or something, to justify this, although we are months out from the end of the war, so you’d think they’d have ample time to root this out. This speaks to a larger problem of factionalism and a lack of control from the revolutionary forces once they stopped uniting against a common enemy. The flare-ups of violence against the government in the stronghold of Benghazi and the Gadhafi loyalist takeover of Bani Walid in recent weeks are both testaments to this.
To be sure, torture was in all likelihood part of the landscape in Libya under Gadhafi. But the idea that you can frame the Libyan intervention as a “human rights victory” just doesn’t match reality. You have different people being abused and tortured, but no end to the actions themselves.
Britain has put out statements condemning the torture and expressing “concern.” They should look inward and reckon with themselves about the forces they helped to unleash in Libya.




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http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/libya-deaths-detainees-amid-widespread-torture-2012-01-26
Amnesty is also out with a report on “widespread torture” in Libya.
Oddly, the interventionists — who care so deeply for the people of Libya (Just ask them!) — have been silent on this.
With Oil contracts in hand they will remain silent. Not odd at all if history is any guide.
Yeah, bc bombing them for humanitarian reasons is such a good plan to begin with, esp when you haven’t a clue as to what will follow. Whole Libyan thing stank to high heaven from the getgo.
Sure have been, esp the U.S. admin which wants to campaign on this as a quick costless victory. Media know to ignore it.
I wonder about France’s press. Equally silent? Libya was a Sark project, his very own Chalabi clone whispered in his ear about how easy it would be, French corps want the oil & water, and Sark esp. wanted a quick victory round about reelection time.
So is all the bad aftermath also hidden by the French press?
And how long would that be, guy who operates a keyboard and roots out shit like this on a daily basis?
But hey, when you run a site that universally blames everything in the universe on one man in the White House, who needs to be accurate when reporting the news? I’m really surprised that neither you nor Greenwald saw fit to accuse MSF of collaborating in torture. After all, the group’s founders originated the doctrine of R2P. The way you two do your logic, shouldn’t this all be their fault?
I think you should retract that comment. It’s pretty far out of line with what was said by Amnesty, by HRW, and by MSF.
And maybe you should start reporting on Syria. Are you afraid to? Too complicated? Not cold war enough with a lot of my enemy’s enemy? The Manichaeans in all of this turn out to be you and Glenn. Not some nebulous Neoliberals or Neoconservatives or authoritarians or anyone else. If it’s someone favored by the USG you oppose them. If it’s someone opposed by the USG you favor them. Without any question at all. And when a conflict, like Syria, has 5, 10, or even 20 factions, you don’t know what to do and go riffling through the Wikileaks looking desperately for 1 CIA guy some year back so you can choose the opposite side. What a desperately stupid way to report the news.
Everyone should post this column on Facebook and elsewhere under the heading:
“Urge President Obama to order the US puppet regime in Libya to stop Toturing Black people there.”
Overstatement much?
> But hey, when you run a site that universally blames
> everything in the universe on one man in the White House
That’s not true, of course, but it sure must seem like that to someone with your, um, moral code.
In other news, President Obama condones and approves torture by the U.S. and its allies. Don’t worry, though – it’s a secret.
I know it’s trite but silence is consent. Obama’s silence on many things is deafening.
The torture didn’t end, it just changed hands.
And Silence Kills
And what is my “um, moral code”, McCarthyite? Or would you like to make that explicit?
I will point you to my, now lapsed, website, Humanity Against Crimes. The tortures being reported in Libya are not being done by President Obama, if you think they are, you haven’t been reading clearly. Torture is attributed correctly by human rights groups, or they don’t report an attribution at all. They work very hard at that, they don’t just sling insinuations and accusations around. They don’t say things like “someone with your, um, moral code.”
Would you like to comment on your Apple products that you were defending the other day? Hold one of them up and pull out the battery pack. Look inside at the pretty capacitors made from conflict minerals and stare in the face of torture of black Africans from some of the same countries as those in the prisons in Libya before you comment on my moral code in the face of the story from HRW about torture in Libya, asshole.
What do you think they were doing in Libya? Same thing 1 million Iraqis are now doing in Syria? Outside agitators means different things to different people doesn’t it?
But don’t worry, it’s not a secret.
“No one is above the law.”
Gee. I can’t seem to remember who said that. Can anyone help me?
The only excuse that NATO has for not realizing that this would transpire following their illegal actions is that they’ve adopted Obama’s motto of “Look Forward, Not Backwards”. The best way to insure disastrous consequences of one’s actions is to ignore the past. Perhaps it’s time to mount another “humanitarian” regime change mission to Libya.
Aren’t you the perceptive one? Did someone attack your boyfriend Obama’s illegal policies and American Exceptionalism? And is your screen name code for that excellent carbonated beverage, Ripple?
Le Monde:
Les Nations unies sont préoccupés par les “brigades révolutionnaires” en Libye, accusées d’avoir provoqué des incidents à Bani Walid et de détenir des milliers de personnes dans des prisons secrètes, ont dit mercredi 25 janvier deux responsables de l’ONU.
La haut-commissaire pour les droits de l’homme, Navi Pillay, a souligné que le gouvernement libyen n’avait “pas encore établi de contrôle effectif” sur ces “brigades révolutionnaires” qui ont combattu les troupes de Kadhafi mais n’ont pas été réintégrées dans l’armée régulière. Elle s’est dite “très inquiète des conditions de détention des personnes détenues par les brigades”, dont “un grand nombre de ressortissants de l’Afrique subsaharienne” accusées d’avoir soutenu Kadhafi. Ses services ont reçu “des informations alarmantes de torture” dans ces centres de détention secrets.
No, the statement dday made was not a fair statement. It certainly wasn’t “news”. He is well aware, if he knows the story at all, that the reports he is citing, from all human rights groups, cite lack of control by the NTC as a major factor in the torture. Dday’s imposition of a deadline for such control in the form of an already past time and then some blame for the Obama administration (which does not have the responsibility) is not correct, none of the human rights groups he cited would agree with him.
So it is not reporting, it’s his own Obamoid Fever. I’m just fine with nailing Obama for what he does, but not for what isn’t his to affect. Or are you all demanding that he institute a Coalition Provisional Authority like the president you all seem to think did a better job?
My bad for asking for a bunch of what are increasingly resembling right-wing libertarians to actually know what they’re talking about.
I meant it about Syria. Nobody here talks about what is increasingly looking like an abyss. All because antiwar.com re-evaluated the Arab Spring and insisted that Syria must be one that true antiwar people needed to find a way to be on the other side of, because Libya proved that the Arab Spring was a U.S.-Israeli plot. A completely fact-free derivation, but who cares about facts? Who cares that 40 years of labor unrest bubbling below the surface was really what catalyzed the Arab Spring? People with as much smarts as dday with his evaluation of how fast militias should be disarmed, also can sit at antiwar.com and evaluate who and when the people in the Arab world should act precisely this or that way out of Gandhi or MLK and should not pick Subhaschandra Bose or Nat Turner by mistake god help them or the infinitely smart bloggers will nail their ass for failing non-interventionism 101 and taking too long to do this or say that, and glue Cynthia Nixon’s ass to the wall for failing vocabulary class to boot. Vanity! Saith the preacher, Vanity!
And so what does that make Occupy, which is the child of the Arab Spring? A CIA plot or just a zombie movement?
Yes, all of the people who comment here favor the actions of G.W. Bush and agree that he did a better job and we’re certainly “increasingly resembling right-wing libertarians”, as well. Do left-wing libertarians exist? You really need to get a grip.
If Obama removes his mask, you’d find that he’s Bush in disguise.