Many of us in Virginia refer to Gov. McDonnell as “Taliban Bob” because he’s made it quite plain over the years that he’d like all his religious beliefs written into law.

But he also, desperately, wants Romney to pick him for V-P. And though he may be a religious extremist in his beliefs, he’s far from stupid. Thus, I’d guess he’s working behind the scenes with the crazies in the General Assembly to back off just a bit, at least while people are watching.

IMO, the power of silence is never to be underestimated. Good on ya, Virginia.

The real silent majority has spoken. Behind all these silent protesters outside the Virginia legislature stand thousands, nay, millions of patriotic Americans silently waiting and watching what Republicans have done, and continue to do, to our country. The OWS protesters are the vocal arm of this real silent majority, but just like in the case of the silent protesters outside the Virginia legislature, behind each OWS protester stands thousands, nay, millions of patriotic Americans. All it will take is a spark to break the silence, and Republicans are busy all across America building bonfires to their own vanity.

I have an idea, when the legislators who thought this was a good idea agree to a trans-anal ultrasound to check for brains, they can have a real discussion about why in dawgs name this would ever be necessary.

Right…vaginal penetration bill…Nice, huh. Let’s say out loud who promoted this and never forget…When men have babies (that is, labor, morning sickness, delivery) maybe they will have standing to assert their uninformed opinion. Soooo sick.

AND THE KILLLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen David Dayen:

Does it appear to you, as it does to me, that at least as it pertains to “abortion politics”, direct action protest and push-back against legislation and policy is workin’ as it hasn’t in the past? Maybe it’s because after Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana and the Occupy actions people are much less intimidated by power when they know that a majority of people in their neighborhoods agree with them…I don’t know but I think we have passed a tippin point here where, opposition to encumbant power can be effectively presented in the streets.

What is gunna be interestin’ is with bankin’ crimes and mortgage fraud…we have already seen successful mass demonstrations and if politicians like Pelosi can keep tweekin’ Obama’s beard, I think we might get some real meaningful action or at least a promise of it.

I do know that politics in the state of Wisconsin will never be the same since last February and all the way down to school board, city counsil and county board elections folks are re-energized and lookin at things in a much different light than what they slept through in the past.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T LET YOUR CHILDREN PLAY WITH FASCISTS!!

I’ll start by saying…I agree with the law. Because, there are medical reasons to have an ultrasound during pregnancy. Whether you are going to have an abortion or not. An ultrasound can accurately predict the age of the fetus so you can stop late term abortions, if necessary. You can notice conditions/positions of the fetus that can aid the physicians decision when performing the procedure. I think the motives of the governor and people opposed to abortion may be different for supporting the law than mine, I do support the law. I am a man and ultimately, I think the decision about an abortion comes down to the mother and her physician. That’s my two cents

Citizen tyoung:

Hey there citizen, ultrasound CAN do all the things that you say it can…and it should be available to any woman who wants it. State mandates of specific health care of course look as ridiculous as you do in defending this attempt to threaten and intimidate preganat women by the state of Virginia.

For your benefit I hope they pass a law that requires you to undergo both an anal and penile probe with a baseball bat. It’s apparent that you’ve already taken several blows to your head and it really wasn’t necessary to state that you were male. Your comment made that evident. What century is this, the 12th?

tbsa has a suggestion for you.

Boy howdy…..I though we were bad in Texas. Our state legislation recently passed a bill requiring women in Texas to get what I understand is a regular ultrasound prior to an abortion. Ya’ know, the kind with the jelly on the abdomen thing? But THIS is positively unbelievable. What is wrong with the friggin’ people?????

You were soooo much less polite than I was. :-)

As I owe you a drink, what’s your pleasure.

No! If a woman wants it,ok. Otherwise it is akin to rape. Bullshit!,

Dude, here’s a nickel. You’ve got change coming.

But they do get postate exams – let’s suggest that the “probe” be used to detect postate abnormalities.
This has to be the stupidist f**king law of the year (maybe decade)

I knew you were a man before you admitted it.

Fuck off, Jack. When it’s your body then you can have an opinion I give a shit about.

Maybe a candiru penile probe especially for him.

I’m just beyond being tolerant of these idiots, especially the paternalistic ones. I don’t drink, but I’d be happy to share a bowl with you. My pleasure would be to not have the US public believe the US corporate media propaganda machine to the extent where 70% polled are convinced that Iran has a nuclear weapon.

Man..you guys/gals are brutal.. I’m a regular reader, and I decided to sign up today to comment on this article. My wife is a PA, and I had the same opinion as most of you do at first, I think the headline itself “Forcible Rape Law” kind of pushed me against the law at first. So instead of just going off the headline and everyone else’s assumptions I asked my wife and got her medical opinion. After listening to her, I came to the conclusion that an ultrasound was a “sound” medical requirement to ask of anyone getting an abortion or woman who is pregnant. Now granted you should have the right to refuse, I agree with that. Thats the part of the law, if it’s true I don’t agree with. I just think that it’s a sound practice to follow if someone that desires to go through an abortion should do. So simma down nah…!!! I’m just offering my opinion. I don’t make laws, i’m just commenting on one of my favorite websites.

More bullshit ,this time wanting to be reasonable. Here’s reasonable, NO!

I have all kinds of nonalcoholic drinks. OJ, milk, selection of herbal teas?

Have you noticed that men are much more obsessed with all this birth control/abortion stuff than women are.

Freud identified penis envy, but if recent evidence counts for anything, vagina/uterus envy would seem to be much more prevalent.

If a woman desires this procedure she can request it. A law that mandates it is ridiculous. People should be allowed to opt-in not opt-out. It should be an individual’s choice, not another manifestation of government control, no matter what your wife says.

Got news for you, guy, we don’t care what your PA wife’s medical opinion is. We’ve got our own medical advisers and our own bodies.

But if you want to cite some stats about how bad pregnancy outcomes have gone down with the addition of this expensive procedure, do tell.

Citizen tyoung:

“…I’m just commenting on one of my favorite websites.”

Yes and I am Willie Shakespear…come on Brother tyoung, you either think the folks around here are stupid as well as gullible or you’re just plain stupid…my money’s on the latter.

Are there any states of The Confederacy where the religiously insane are not engaged in passing state rape by statute? Only N. Carolina perhaps? Whenever I see these articles I think the only solution to this ongoing assault is a nat’l petition to put an end to the donor/donee tax revenue disbursement system on any/all federal revenue. The quickest way to kill fire ants is to back the car up to the nest and run a hose from the exhaust pipe to the hole; then putting the petal to the metal. Cutting off these zealots oxygen/money would go a long way to ending their freak show. These eggsucking stooges couldn’t get elected dogcatcher anywhere most people want to live. I blame the DLC for the ambiguity of Dems not stomping on these bugs. How much b.s. does one have to eat before these people are choked off permanently?

The bowl I referred to was filled with herb. This is just another attempt at control by the patriarchy, and probably a way for the governor’s friends in the health care industry to pad their bank accounts with unnecessary procedures.

You have kept your coolth, and civility, tyoung, which are most important assets, in the emotional clinches..

Welcome to the Lake.

You will discover that some topics, here, are best approached with as much clarity and patience as one may muster.

Nonetheless, we are “here” to learn from, and to respect each other.

You’re doing fine in that regard, and my sense is that you will “grow” on us.

DW

The legislature was presented with an amendment that would have required the woman’s consent, and voted it down. So, no, there’s no “right to refuse.”

If the woman and her doctor want a vaginal probe, it’s no business of the state. And the state has no right to require it, especially absent the woman’s consent.

Sorry, I don’t want physician assistant’s husbands deciding that the state can require forcible penetration against a woman’s will. Your comments and opinions are welcome, of course, but you must expect some pushback on this topic. We’re a progressive, woman-run, woman-owned blog.

Read and learn.

It’s amazing how deep and foul is the hatred of women. It’s also amazing how deeply they fear us. Therein lies our strength.

That’s nasty and original. Bravo.

I figured out the herb part right before I submitted my comment. Otherwise I would have made an even bigger fool of myself. I don’t do that. It just puts me to sleep (3-4 embarrassing stories before I figured it out), and I get enough sleep as it is.

Definitely figured out the rest of the story. It’s part of the mafia of the intelligentsia.

North Carolina bigots and talibangelicals are too busy trying to enshrine discrimination into their constitution with Amendment One, to be voted on by the populace this spring.

Here’s my Q, never having having undergone the procedure, does it vibrate?

‘Tis truth you speak, fatster.

Fortunately, for all rational beings, not all of “us” are afraid or hate, and that is because we love and respect you, your wit, your wisdom, your courage, and your power, all of which comprise your collective strength.

DW

Citizen eCAHNomics:

With a daughter in graduate school who had to force herself through some close readings of some of old Sigmund’s written fantasies, I would hope that you would have some better references than he…”penis envy” indeed, it would be funny if it weren’t still a commonly accepted concept.

Had to google it.

This is a blog, not grad school.

Christine said last night that she had one of these procedures and it was awful. No one is going to put something in my body unless I say so. Also read an article that said this procedure is very dangerous to the fetus.

Whether this is a “woman-run, woman-owned blog” doesn’t really make a difference to me. I’ve got a wife, I’ve got a daughter. The notion that a legislature can create ANY absolute requirement for a procedure that is not medically necessary is horrible, and the notion that any doctor and woman would be compelled by law to do or undergo such a medical procedure based only on the religious convictions of a group of lawmakers is unacceptable.

I’m a man. Nobody requires me to have a prostate exam if I want treatment for erectile dysfunction (not that I need it, of course :) ). And if some state lawmakers think that they can compel my wife or my daughter to undergo this humiliating and unnecessary procedure as punishment because they want to terminate a pregnancy, then those lawmakers have a problem with me, my wife and my daughter.

I don’t care if this required internal ultrasound was the most comfortable and pleasant experience for the woman in the world and they were given a lollipop afterwards. It’s not the reason they went to the doctor. It’s not medically necessary. And the only reason it’s being suggested is that these lawmakers want to exercise control over the choice my wife or my daughter makes.

I live in a place that’s a little less crazy than other places in the US, so we don’t have this particular issue. I’m getting tired of having to drive up to Madison, Wi, or Indiana or some other town to add my voice to the people who are facing this garbage directly. But if I have to go down to Virginia to stand with these people, I’ll do it. I don’t want my daughter to have to take time from grad school and my wife teaches, but I’m ready to go make a racket by being silent if I have to.

Happy presidents day! That should lighten the mood. My last and final. Have a good day.

It may not be medically necessary, but has been pointed out above, may be economically necessary for docs’ contributions to pols’ campaigns.

That’s too microeconomics for me, but is an interesting hypothesis.

Great screen name.

“If it’s true,” if you don’t know what you’re talking about, why don’t you pour yourself a big cup of Shut The Fuck Up.

Half of what docs know about medicine is wrong.

Trouble is, they don’t know which half.

Citizen eCAHNomics:

“This is a blog not grad school.”

Well then…I guess I got put in MY place. All of us who are older have had at some point in our “higher education” to read Freud’s bullshit…and as a male, father of both daughters and a son I am amazed at the stayin’ power of some of that crap. So it is with some disappointment that I find that one of the more important and intelligent voices around here is refenencin’ that shit even in humor. I would hope that we can look forward to a day when Freud and Freudianism would hafta be researched in dustbins and archeological digs.

Great. I grew up in a household with 5 women. As the only male the quickest way to food poisoniong was butting in to their personal/private affairs. In 60 years our extended family has had 3 interrecial marriages and that’s another good way to get your nose bloodied; putting it in your kins’ private/personal affairs. As a nation we are regressing so fast in vital areas I’m beginning to think walking backwards gives me a better sightline going forward. I live by the Pacific Ocean and would like to build The Lemming Line Trail right up to a 700 ft. cliff I hike by occassionally. I’d encourage ” southern hospitality ” by letting these bible thumpers always go first.

@tyoung:

Why do you mandate a medical procedure on one group of women (those who are planning or strongly leaning toward having an abortion) but will not mandate it for women who intend their pregnancies and wish to sustain them? Point is, you shouldn’t oughta mandate in on ANYbody.

Or perhaps you and yours would prefer to mandate t-v ultrasounds on ANY girl of possibly child-bearing age? Just to make sure she’s not pregnant and doesn’t know it?

This nonsense is unconstitutional and you know it.

Got involved in one of those obscure academic feuds more than a decade ago. Maybe 2 decades. Had to do with whether Freud recognized childhood sexual abuse bc some of his early training years were spent in Paris morgues, where he could see what the children actually died of.

According to one side of the story, Freud had to sublimate into penis envy bc he was ostracized for pointing out childhood sexual abuse.

I have no idea of the truth or falsity of this claim, just note for the record that it kept my non-prof intellectual engagement going for awhile.

IIRC, some woman who wrote for NYMag was on one side and some male intellectual gadfly was on the other, but I no longer remember either name.

So there. NFT. Not grad school but back story worthy of the petty infighting that occurs in that rarefied atmosphere bc so little of what they discuss matters so little.

Janet Malcolm, I now remember, was the Freud afficianado.

Dude. I think you’re failing to grok the difference between an ultrasound and a transvaginal ultrasound. A regular ultrasound is where they use some goo on the abdomen and then rub a wand against it. It’s not overly comfortable, but it’s not invasive. A transvaginal ultrasound requires them to insert a LARGE unit into the woman’s vagina and then move it around, so that they can see everything in the uterus. It’s horribly invasive and uncomfortable. And if the woman has any history of sexual abuse at all (and many many of us do) – I mean, ever, not just immediately preceding the unwanted pregnancy – it is quite traumatic. It should never ever be a mandatory procedure.

Invasive ultrasounds, but NO STD prevention vaccinations.

Isn’t this really what the GOP is all about? They want to control what and whom can enter every women in the country. They’re not interested in fetuses or Life , its about male authority to rape women legally. These folks need their heads examined, maybe we need laws that mandate mental exams for anyone living in RED States.

Yes.

On edit: Ditto Ds.

A most-substantive comment, Luna, I hope that tyoung might return to see it and learn …

Thank you for your very clear and patient explanation.

I look forward to your comments, in future.

DW

But but but, his wife is a PA (we must believe this bc he typed it) and he is gracing us with his free advice. Should we not all bow down & be grateful.

I did also. Nasty little parasitic fish.

Im very late getting back to this horse & pony show wherein we are getting medical advice from a man who happens to be the husband of a PA…close to practicing medicine without a license. Very similar to all the legal questions to spouse of an attorney, b/c you know, he/she is married to a lawyer….never mind about malpractice. So absurd. This thread is so far removed from the usual good conversation of FDL; I can only assume that the subject brings out the crazy in people, sorta like remarks about aspirin. It’s too early in the day to start drinking and too late to go back to bed…instead I think this nonsense has given me a headache. First the Pope’s boys hold forth about birth control, then the lege wants a penetration bill, and a PA spouse wants to interpret and advocate for it. My very thankful thought is that I am too old to ever need an abortion….now that is to be grateful for. But I do think in the name of representation we need a strong movement to disallow men (non-medical) from holding forth about procedures on women’s bodies….a sane place to begin the conversation…..And I won’t opine or vote on anything having to do with Viagra.

Citizen eCAHNomics:

YIKES…you’ve had more exposure to that crap than is healthy for ANYone at anytime but my point was that to this day Freud is required reading in a lotta places and Freudianism is still considered a legitimate intellectual construct to understanding human behavior. This is to me more than disappointing and as a father of children who are now and will be teaching and counseling children, I find it frightening.

But perfect in this context.

Virginia, my adopted home state for about 40 years, has always been pretty conservative outside the DC and Norfolk metros. Folks misapprehend that it’s not as wigged out as the ‘deep’ South. Wrong. The home of both Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell with gigantic followings of both. Virgil Goode, former Rep., recently declared as presidential candidate on something called the Constitution Party, which I take it is more to his liking that either of his former parties. The state is still number 2 in executions, behind Texas, but right up there on a per capita basis. Home of the Byrd machine, perhaps the most successful statewide political machine in the first half of the 20th century, controlling and maintaining strict segregated system. Home and author of ‘massive resistance’ to school integration. Home of the ‘marijuana martyr’ who was originally sentenced to 40 prison for possession of 9 ounces of pot. Attorney General: Ken Cuccinelli; fill in the blank on your favorite God-inspired crusade. Recently approved “Choose Life” vanity plate, but resisted “choice” plate. Gutting environmental programs, mental health services. Legalized concealed carry in bars.

That’s just off the top of my head. The legislature has been trending rightward for a couple of decades. Very far rightward.

The usual Southern genteel veneer. Not a very pretty underbelly.

You’d think his “PA” wife would have explained the difference.

Humans are alpha male societies evolutionarily.

Home to slave holding, monoculture land destroying founding fathers, too.

Tough room, huh?

FYI, you happened to catch FDL regulars on a topic of particular sensitivity.

Follow DW’s advice @ #27 and you’ll be fine.

Please ditch the partisanship. It’s always been the haves versus the have-nots. It is simply a question of control, of which partisanship is just a means to distract the masses while they’re being anally raped by the PTB.

Been a tough couple of weeks for you gals. Just so you know, we had a meeting and MOST men are way more sensitive and wise than the male legislative morons in Virginia, Texas and members Issa’s committee. We have banned those ignorant sons of bitches from future meetings. Don;t judge the whole loaf of bread from that end slice.

Oh the kindly Republican legislators, protectively making it law that all women have transvaginal ultrasounds, just in case there might a problem with the pregnancy they want or need to end!

But where is their concern for the health of all the Virginia women who want to continue their pregnancies? Where is the Republican legislation’s concern for the health of those wanted unborn children?

Why no health saving probes legislated or their health and safety? So many current Virginia women and future Virginia children at risk, and the legislature just ignores them?

Could it be that Virginia Republicans have something else in mind than preventive healthcare?

Alas and alack, so it appears?

Thank you…that’s very kind….I just can’t get over the intrusion into the dr-patient relationship….I’ve had some wonderful docs, and we did not need a “lege” in the dr’s office.

I suspect that tyoung (and his wife, with tyoung’s “help”) was not “clear” as to the nature of the “test”, eCAHN.

That would be my considered guess.

Time shall tell.

;~DW

Yeppers, ncg.

DW

Surely the wife was….the procedure is not all that unusual….just when ordered by the Lege that makes it very rare.

what the Virginia state rape bill demonstrates clearly is that republicans care nothing of zygotes and fetus. Their interest in abortion lies strictly in using the abortion topic as a means to exert their will in oppressing the free-will of women.

I hope all that becomes clear…Thank you.

You go, newcarguy! Vroomm, vroom!

Many thnx.

Yes, they are ideological if not spiritual brethren of the Taliban and al Queda.

Do the “good citizens” of Virginia wax nostalgic for the days when strange fruit hung from the cottonwood trees?

I would presume that a healthcare provider would be able to refuse to do the procedure due to “conscience.” That is the same provision used by those who do not wish to provide abortions, plan B, and even birth control. What needs to be done, in my opinion, is to publish the names of healthcare providers who consent to perform this invasive procedure – most women would boycott them for other services.

The law is crappy and is meant to humiliate, not educate, as suggested.

I had 5 full term pregnancies without ever having a transvaginal ultrasound. It wasn’t until I had fibroids that I became aware of the procedure. As for my experience, it is my opinion that the procedure would be extremely traumatic for someone who might have experienced a rape. Furthermore, a person in an office for an abortion is not in need of an education. Most of us already have sex education in school. I don’t know many woman above the age of consent that are unaware of pregnancy or what it entails. It is an insult that a bunch of men think my gender is so ignorant that we need a refresher on reproduction prior to receiving a procedure on our reproductive system.

Seems as if Mr. Young decided to scarper after getting his arse handed to him by the good folks here. Typical conservative response to pushback: run away (and likely complain to friends about how uncivil everyone on this board is)…