Undercutting Israeli saber-rattling on the topic, Western leaders agreed today to new negotiations with Iran on their nuclear program. And Iran possibly agreed to new inspections.
Efforts to find a diplomatic solution to the disputed Iranian nuclear program appeared to receive some momentum on Tuesday when the group of six global powers that suspended talks with Iran in frustration more than a year ago formally agreed to accept Iran’s offer to resume discussions.
The agreement on the talks was made known in a statement from the European Union’s foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, acting on behalf of the six powers — the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — the United States, Russia, China, France and Britain — and Germany [...]
There were conflicting reports on Tuesday about Iran’s readiness to permit inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations’ nuclear supervisory body, to visit a secret military complex to which they have been denied access. An Iranian news agency, ISNA, said that Iran had reversed its refusal to permit I.A.E.A. inspectors to visit the complex at Parchin, southeast of Tehran.
But a news release from Iran’s representatives at the I.A.E.A. headquarters in Vienna suggested that the offer was conditional, preliminary and limited to only two of the five areas that the agency’s experts wished to investigate. It also accused the agency of ignoring an agreement to postpone its request to visit the secret site at Parchin until after a meeting this week of the agency’s board of governors.
If the inspections go through in addition to the talks, we’re seeing at least some intent to let diplomacy work. We’ll have to see how the IAEA reacts to this characterization of the agreement.
However, I do fear that, while President Obama had the clear goal of stopping Israel’s rush toward unilateral action, he may have chosen a middle course that will constrain him down the road, as Michael Tomasky explains:
We are going to war with Iran. Maybe not by November, maybe not even under this president. But just because I added that last phrase, don’t dismiss this lightly. The central fact of this past week, which seems to have escaped everyone’s attention (which itself boggles my mind), is that Barack Obama, in his speech to AIPAC Sunday, as in his interview with Jeff Goldberg before it, all but made war someday inevitable. How? By saying that containment of a nuclear Iran was not an option. Americans need to be clear on the full implications of this statement [...]
The important part of the speech, the sentences that historians might be ruing and Americans regretting 15 years from now, was this: “Iran’s leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. And as I have made clear time and again during the course of my presidency, I will not hesitate to use force when it is necessary to defend the United States and its interests.”
Here’s why this is important. Ironclad vows like this tend to lock a nation into a position from which it cannot later retreat. If you were already thinking “Truman Doctrine,” give yourself a point.
Tomasky goes on to explain how the Truman Doctrine committed the US to action in Vietnam, and how a stated policy against containment lays the groundwork for war. Paul Pillar, in a provocative piece for the Washington Monthly, looks at what a containment strategy would look like in practice, arguing specifically that “we can live with a nuclear Iran.” But we may have already gone past that point. Israel, the US, and the discussion around this topic has raised the stakes to the point that even a minor incident would lead to war, and it’s all based on a faulty premise, that Iran with nuclear weapons would somehow be an apocalyptic scenario. Pillar begs to differ, but sadly, perception is reality in this case.
Certainly, the Republican candidates for President wouldn’t back down from a “no containment strategy.” They’re actually aping the Administration’s strategy when it comes to Iran, while pestering him for being “weak” on the issue, which just feeds more belligerence. There couldn’t be a worse possible time for the world for all this war talk. And while by deed, Obama wants to put out the near-term fire of unilateral Israeli action, by words, he may have committed the US to an inevitable conflict.




64 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
So gas prices are going to drop 50 cents a gallon tomorrow, right?
You know, cause we’re talking to Iran again?
Since many pundits are pointing out the meaning of Obama’s words, locking in a future war, it’s not too late for Obama to clarify he was not setting this nation on a course of inevitability.
Of course, he wont and, just like Israel, will completely place the onus on Iran, and call his own position rational and defensive.
Hey, someone over at the WH? How about it?
The folks at the White House can only hear you if you throw money at them and call them sell-outs.
Hope so. I’ve got two empty gas cans in the back of the truck, waiting for a fall in prices.
I have a sense Tomasky is right. But I also think this puts the war decision in Iran’s hands. Do they really want a nuclear bomb that bad that they will chance a likely war? What in heck do they stand to gain by it?
They all want war with Iran. And you can bet anything Iran does to work through diplomacy will in the end be seen as a failure. The only thing that matters here is to watch what Russia and China do. Without them on board will we still attack. I think so, but it does make it very very tricky.
The way I see it, they stand to gain the threat of mutually assured destruction. Possession of a nuclear weapon would theoretically act as a deterrent to Israel. The Iranians think they can protect themselves from potential attacks if Israel knows they possess a nuke, with the ability to strike back in a devastating way. Think of it as a scaled-down cold war?
“If the inspections go through in addition to the talks, we’re seeing at least some intent to let diplomacy work. We’ll have to see how the IAEA reacts to this characterization of the agreement.
However, I do fear that, while President Obama had the clear goal of stopping Israel’s rush toward unilateral action, he may have chosen a middle course that will constrain him down the road, as Michael Tomasky explains:”
My conjecture is that Obama is playing a waiting game with Netanyahu until after the G8/NATO meetings in particular the G8 meeting now scheduled at Camp David in order to see how much they (US/Israel) can push the other nations leaders into doing this. Perhaps offering some of the war profit to the reluctant nations? If there is an agreement the possibility of war before the U.S. election is highly probable if there isn’t, then they may have to wait till after the election for the US and Israel to try some false flag operation to get something started.
“…maybe not by November…”
If it happens before November, it will be because the Israelis have decided that they want to deal with president Romney instead of president Obama.
I don’t think the Great-Reacher-Outer can politically survive the economic fallout from an attack on Iran.
As far as Obama’s locking us into an attack on Iran goes, it looks like the success the flatearthers in the GOP are having at dragging the party ever rightward, isn’t lost on our “socialist” preznint, as he tracks right along with them.
I think the Iranians should do a deal with the Russians, according to which Russia threatens to strike Israel in the event of an Israeli preemptive attack on Iran. The Israeli’s would then have to ask themselves whether the US would risk its own destruction for Israel, which has no strategic value to the United States. On the other hand, the Iranians would have to worry whether the Russians would follow through on their threat. If we are in a cold war scenario, I think the best bet is something like what the US did for Europe. Russia could do that for Iran. Israel is a rogue country, and has to be contained.
Actually the decision would still be with the one launching the pre-emptive war, like Saddam wasn’t responsible for our faulty intillegence because of his alleged WMD. Do we really want Iran to be Iraq 2.0 where we launch a pre-emptive war based upon [faulty] intel?
What did Bibi get in exchange for promising to hold off on an attack until after the election? That had to be the deal, from Obama’s end. I’m just wondering what he gave Netanyahu, to get that.
It had to be more than just the de riguer “We stand with you.”
I think that would be a horrible outcome here. The more countries involved, the greater the risk for the kind of prolonged stalemate we saw with the Cold War. Bringing Russia into the fold as an aggressor would ratchet the entire situation up exponentially. We’re talking about thousands of nukes at that point, which global reach. Truly terrifying.
Yes, it does make it tricky. But if you are Iran, ask yourself if those powers are going to put skin in the game after a first strike, no warning from the US and Israel and maybe someone else. You have to believe that first strike will be pretty powerful. I doubt we or Israel are going to forecast when it is coming. My bet would be sooner rather than later, just to close out any support. Iran surely knows this and so early progress is important IMO. This whole game is high stakes and Iran controls a very big piece of it. It is not only the big Satan here, although that is what Iran would like to project. Surely, none of us want war. The clown car is currently the thing that is moving us closer to war, along with your,favorite repug senators.
You might equally ask what the the US have to gain by another disastrous entanglement for NO substantial reason? So you expect Iran to act more rationally than the US? Than Israel? But they can’t. Remember, their the mad Mullahs bent on self destruction. You don’t have to be a fan of the Iranian government, to catch the double standard.
Lot’s of talk about turning an [even blinder] blind eye to Israeli expansionism in the West Bank.
I’m not sure that’s what the current Administration wants (holding off until after the elections). Wartime presidents typically see a rise in polls, don’t they?
Somewhere out there, Evan Bayh is doing a Snoopy dance because a war with Iran will prove that Democrats aren’t “weak on national security.”
I’m just wondering what he gave Netanyahu, to get that.
I’m pretty sure it something better than St. James’s Place and the Reading Railroad.
I’ve never really understood why we give a rats patootie about Israel. It seems that if they want to get into a fight with Iran, why are we required to help? This country is already fooked up enough that we should spend some time solving our own problems. Actually, I am just tired of our government acting like the big bully on the block and starting fights where none exist. Frock Israel, let them fend for themselves.
We do not want a second entanglement, but there is little chance we will abandon Israel. I believe this is an existential threat to them, at least in their understanding. If Iran does not take the nukes off the table, they will trigger the war. That is what Tomasky is suggesting and I think it is deliberate. We can argue forever about who is the more rational here, but that won’t work. Israel simply will not allow Iran to get a bomb, one of which could destroy their country. If the clown car takes over, war comes on something like jan 21, 2013. Could be sooner if there is no progress on the talks. That’s the way I see it now.
Are you saying that Obama is an incompetent, weak-minded fool? Because if you’re not, I am.
If Israel attacks Iran WE will get the blame no matter if we are involved. We give them money and arms and support them to the point of absurdity and everyone is aware of that. Without us they wouldn’t be able to attack Iran in the first place. We will get the blowback in spades.
I can only hope the intel is right this time. Iraq actually cooperated and we still attacked bc Bush was nuts. Iran is currently not cooperating. Maybe they will, or, yes, there will be war, and yes we are not going to tell them when.
There is zero chance we will abandon Israel they control our media, mots of our politicians and not just in this country. How else can you explain when discussing this issue everyone know Israel has nukes, but it is never mentioned in MSM.
Just like all over wars this is about control, money and access. No way Russia and China will sit on the sidelines unless they have been offered some deals that are way better then them sticking with Iran. You can bet that is the only conversations going on right now behind closed doors. Everything we are seeing is just show.
Kris, in the past, yes. But Bush used up a lot of the automatic-patriot cred with all of the koolaid he peddled to get people on board for invading Iraq. Obama will have nothing like the blank check that Bush had.
Also, Iraq had nothing like the retaliatory power that Iran has. They can hurt us a lot of ways. They don’t need to “win” militarily; all they need to do is lay those mines in the Strait, and mount an occasional attack on a tanker or a mine-clearing vessel, and we will never see $3 a gallon gas again. In fact, we probably won’t, if the Iranians do nothing.
Obama has the “strategic oil reserve” that he can use to keep pump prices from going through the roof, for a while, but I don’t know how long he can do that. And he can’t do it to protect the rest of the world from the effects of 20% of the world’s oil being under a constant threat, and the ripple effect of that won’t stop at the coastline of europe.
Keeping China and Russia from helping Iran in non-confrontational ways would also be tough. If he could do it, there would be a hell of a bar tab coming due for that, down the road.
He’s just not going to get the lockstep support for attacking Iran, that Bush had for invading Iraq, and when the chickens from attacking Iran start landing, I think it will mean that whatever chance he had for a second term, will be gone.
Bush wanted a war with Iraq and Saddam was set to fail. How can you prove you do not have what you do not have. Inspections were just cover. Same will happen to Iran. The only thing that would stop this is if Iran agrees to a central bank, and offers lucrative contracts to western corps, and so on. Without that they will be attacked unless Russia and China step up big time for Iran and then I am not sure how it will play out.
“…are you saying that Obama’s a weak-minded, incompetent fool…..”
Uhhhh….yeah; I’m saying that…been saying it since about his sixth month in office. :o)
“…and yes, we are not going to tell them when.”
I think they can make a pretty accurate guess about that.
Pre-November, Obama does not want to deal with a mid-east in more turmoil that we already have there. After the election, all bets are off, whether it’s Obama or Romney in the Oval Office.
Come to think of it, you can say that about a lot of things; not just a war with Iran. :o(
OT. Could someone tell me why I’m getting a WARNING when I try My FDL?
Good analysis. Ask yourself what happens with China and Russia if we attack tomorrow? I think nothing. No doubt this is going to be tricky and dangerous. And the initial strike could baloon into a bigger war. I am still hoping for a solution. If Obama losses, I doubt we avoid war. But the longer this goes on the more likely it becomes also. Reminds me of ww1 run up.
In the case of Iran, we know the likely places and they will not allow inspectors there, at least not yet. That, in and of itself, I’d problematic and could be the trigger.
“Everything we are seeing is just show.”
Yep.
But if one JDAM goes sailing into Iran, then the reality-checks begin, and I don’t think anyone can predict or control the outcome. I think that because Obama has propped up so many of bushCo’s spinning corporate plates, he can’t afford a giant rocking-of-the-boat, and that’s what attacking Iran would be. Too much is hanging by a thread…our little
more-hamburger-flippers! economic “recovery” would collapse into a pile of shit, and the 1% would be moving assets offshore so fast no one could keep track.
It really could trigger 1929 redux and be beyond any government bailout to salvage.
They will know for sure when the bombs start falling. I agree that Obama would rather not do this before the election, but if Iran proves recalcitrant, all bets are off.
There is indeed a doomsday scenario in all this.
Twain, no idee.
Way back in the pre-2008 days, I got tossed a couple of times when I, uhhh…participated in a discussion of Hillary’s …”triangulation” tactics that was vociferous, to put it mildly, and I got tossed, temporarily, but I never saw “warning”. :o)
Now which is it? Is it that Iran has no intention of constructing nuclear weapons (the Khamenei doctrine)? Or is it that Iran is surreptitiously building a nuclear weapon? The assertion of inevitable war assumes the latter. A South Africa scenario assumes the former.
It has become clearer this week that Netanyahu is not in a rush to war but is keeping this issue stirred up to obscure the rapid move to make a one-state solution for Palestine a fait accompli.
Thanks. This is a big red thing about something called “malware” – whatever that is. I can “ignore” it but not sure what that means. I’m on a Mac which is supposed to be virus-proof so ….
So as compared to war, which would you prefer? The real question on the war scenario is how close is Iran to making a weapon?
Never let a crisis go to waste they say.
My understanding is that it appeared as the result of an MyFDL diary linking to a picture that contained whatever the warning is warning of. It appears to me to be an unethical ad for a malware detecting service that triggers the warning. That is, malware advertising of malware detection.
Malware is not a good thing. Stay away.
I think they can be recalcitrant until the election.
I think that’s what the meeting with Bibi was about, at the White House yesterday. The deal was cut. It pretty much had to be, for both sides to be prattling about how well it went.
Of course, that could be hiding a new Pearl Harbor agreement, but at this point, I don’t think surprise is much of an option. I’m thinking that the Iranians have their own intel operations going, to look for a breath of a hint that Israeli planes are taking off in any numbers. I’d be surprised if there aren’t some clandestine ops going on, on behalf of giving Iran some lead time.
We’re assuming that if Israel goes, they will take the Saudi route, and if so, it won’t take but one disaffected Saudi putting out a code word for “here they come!” for the Iranian defenses to kick in. And they will kick in.
The Iranians aren’t exactly in the stone age, electronically. When the Iranians took over that drone and brought it in intact, there were some pentagon techies looking for a desk to crawl under.
Thanks for the answers.
Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran…
Didn’t we vote that down in 08?
My preferences are irrelevant. It is what it is.
I’ve seen arguments from evidence that there is nothing going on beyond nuclear power generation of electricity.
And I’ve seen arguments from what we don’t know completely that (for the last 22 years in fact) Iran is three to six months from having “the bomb”.
And I’ve seen bogus evidence.
My reading is that Iran doesn’t have a weapon, is not intending to get a weapon, but is intending to have the technology available to develop one rapidly if need-be. That is, be like Japan. And that the diplomatic crisis is a creation of Israel to obscure the Israeli reaction to the Arab Awakening, which is to absorb the occupied territories as rapidly as possible into a single state before Palestine succeeds in getting UN General Assembly recognition. And before the Arab states that have experienced revolutions start changing their policies toward Israel.
I wouldn’t disagree. But TD has a scenario that Israel is using this for some other purpose. That would mean we are not as close to a showdown. I hope he is right. We don’t need another war, for sure. Israel still holds the element of surprise, no matter what Iran does.
I don’t think that the element of surprise exists for Israel. Too much tech and too many people watching who are opposed to this, for their planes to be much beyond the borders of Israel without word of it quickly going to Teheran, long before any bomb falls.
I have another speculation. Netanyahu is holding unilateral action against Iran over Obama’s head to avoid having US aid to Israel cut (deficit concerns and all that) or possible expanded. It negates the threat of withdrawal of US aid as a stick to force I-P negotiations. (Leaving aside the matter of whether Obama would ever uses such a stick.)
“I believe this is an existential threat to them, at least in their understanding”
Well, which is it?
I don’t believe it is an existential threat and neither do sane analysts who correctly factor in the retaliatory destruction that would ensue (even Hillary telegraphed that in ’08). So it amounts to further screwing up the US and much of the world order and economy for 1) RW Israeli manipulation and/or 2) someone’s imagination.
Sometimes it’s good to step outside of the MSM/western framing and credit other’s with some degree of sanity, even if it’s not the sort you would prefer.
I am not at all comfortable that Iran does not want a bomb. And I don’t know what I don’t know about Israel. I am pretty sure though,that if Israel thought Iran was close to a,bomb, there there would be war. I am not sure there is any evidence other than Iran saying you can’t go there but trust me, I’m not hiding anything. Not a good way to build confidence in your assertion that there is nothing behind the curtain. Someone may want a peek, you know. And Obama is not interested in containment, he said so. So too, Netnyahoo.
I would bet on that.
I think you are right on the mark here. It’s a little like the partition of Poland. Israel gets all the West Bank, no civil rights for the inhabitants; America, Russia and China divvy up the oil. The problem is that short of nuking Iran, which would mess up the oil, it is hard to see how the plan can work. The Iranians sacrificed well over a million of their citizens to fight Saddam, and would do the same if they were invaded. It would take simultaneous invasions from the Gulf and the Caspian Sea for a takeover even to have a chance, and I don’t think there’s any chance of that ever happening.
I would prefer that, and I hope you are right. Maybe the right wing will get,voted out in Israel and they will accept containment and trust the mullahs won’t bomb them.
And is there some reason why Iran can’t mess with the West psychologically, any more than vice versa? Without sticking up for Iran, I would say your well on the way to overdosing on Kool Aid ; )
Why would Iran drop a nuke on Israel? Doesn’t make any sense to me because that would be assured destruction.
You are saying this is a dangerous game. Too much Kool aid and there could be a serious mistake. Takes two though.
I forgot! There is a reason.
Israel’s got Uncle Sugar in it’s pocket. And Uncle Sugar’s got the biggest stick on the block!
I lived in NY city for a lot of those years when the evil empire was around and I never worried about it. So perhaps Israel can do the same.
That seems rational. Why not stick to that line?
That’s me. I’ve heard said that yahoo thinks this is a existential issue. This is not simply a case of, listen, we are not comfortable with you getting a bomb there in Iran,especially with your mullahs and all tha talk of wiping us off,the earth. I said I don’t know what I don’t know about Israel, but it could easily be holy shit, another holocast, hell no. Rather fight it out now.
Maybe I read too much into it, but when you say containment is not an option, you are saying no nukes, period. And the only way to assure that is full on inspection of all your sites, not just this one or,that, but all of them. So it puts you on a path to some kind of action, if Iran does not comply, as Tomsak say, maybe not now or before the election but … Obama likely said that to keep Israel from going alone, but I don’t know that to be true. Hope it is not true.
You do remember the run up to the Iraq invasion perhaps? It didn’t matter what Saddam said, or had or did. And invasion was coming. That’s the spot Israeli hawks, the neocons, and AIPAC would like to put the US in.
At this point the US will have to work like hell to keep Israel from pulling the trigger, one way or another. And Obama does not seem committed to working like hell, and with his recent statements has just put the US one step closer to war.
************************
If Obama did not intend to put the US on the course of inevitability, the WH needs to issue a clarification ASAP. Playing cute with the language, which is what diplomats often do, doesn’t cut it when the threat is unconditional use of force based, essentially, on whim. The WH needs to unequivocally state that the Obama statement was not meant as an inevitable precursor to war — and needs to state it simply, clearly, and let it stand.
*************************
“No Containment” seems a reaction to the game of attacking EU citizens and American citizens via Hez, pretending Hez is not directly controlled by the Iranian gov because they are fed and guided by the Revolutionary Guard.
The idea that Iran is chasing new toys – nukes – for their activist outside Iran arm Hez does not sit well. Some here want to insist they have seen no actions that imply a chase for a bomb – or that Iran is going for a Japanese situation when Japan is not testing bomb carrying missiles and not chasing enrichment above the levels needed for power – two things Iran is doing.
Israeli fears are not the point here – if they were the only thing going on, Israel would be sat on by the West. Saudi, EU, indeed Sunni fears – and oil – are driving this.
There is a window – and “No Containment” makes the point there is no plan C. The choice is binary. Israel may run the raid – with help – but it will be a decision of many countries. I don’t believe Iran can sell Hez has changed, or that Hez is being cut off from the Revolutionary Guard, or that they will not continue to use Hez as a forward projection of their power, or they will withhold nukes from Hez.
The best Iran will get is a reluctant agreement that they join the nations that produce nuke power rods for other nations nuke power plants.
The most likely result is a step too far by Iran – and war. I fear a disaster at many levels in many areas, but the alternative is not going to be accepted by many many other countries – not just Israel.