The President’s press conference wrapped up, and the focus was mostly on Iran, to the exclusion of even a single question about Eric Holder’s asserted right to kill American citizens without a trial. I still think that the President ran the risk of walking into a cul-de-sac by asserting that the Administration didn’t have a “containment policy” on Iran. But it’s fair to say that his focus has been on the near-term consequences of Israel acting along to strike at Iranian facilities. He also took aim at the amped-up rhetoric at home pushing the world into war over the issue; in his presser, he had some pretty strong words about that:
At this stage, it is my belief that we have a window of opportunity where this can still be resolved diplomatically. That’s not just my view — that’s the view of our top intelligence officials, it’s the view of top Israeli intelligence officials. And as a consequence, we are going to continue to apply the pressure, even as we provide a door for the Iranian regime to walk through, where they could rejoin the community of nations, by giving assurances to the international community that they are meeting their obligations and they are not pursuing a nuclear weapon. That’s my track record.
Now, what’s said on the campaign trail, you know, those folks don’t have a lot of responsibilities. They’re not commander in chief. And when I see the casualness with which some of these folks talk about war, I’m reminded of the costs involved in war. I’m reminded of the decision that I have to make, in terms of sending our young men and women into battle, and the impacts that has on their lives, the impact it has on our national security, the impact it has on our economy.
This is not a game, and there’s nothing casual about it. And, you know, when I see some of these folks who had a lot of bluster and a lot of big talk, but when you actually ask them, specifically, what they would do, it turns out they repeat the things that we’ve been doing over the last three years. It indicates to me that that’s more about politics than actually trying to solve a difficult problem.
Now, the one thing that we have not done, is we haven’t launched a war. If some of these folks think that it’s time to launch a war, they should say so. and they should explain to the American people exactly why they would do that and what the consequences would be. Everything else is just talk.
Considering how seldom we ever open a public debate about the “costs of war” in America, I think that’s pretty refreshing. And I do think there’s been an emphasis on the consequences of “loose talk of war” on the part of the Administration, where there’s probably at least some divide on the issue. Obama specifically rejected the notion that there’s a fateful window of a week or a month to bring the Iranian issue to a resolution. He’s trying to lower the temperature, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
I just think that’s an impossible task in the middle of the lion’s den at the AIPAC conference. And the most crucial actor in this whole debate is Benjamin Netanyahu, who does not give off the profile of a patient man. And this is where the “no containment” rhetoric gets everyone into trouble. Netanyahu can merely say he’s adopting the same policy as the President of the United States, a policy of making sure that Iran doesn’t get a nuclear weapon. The red lines might be different – Netanyahu draws it at a capability – but he can muddy those waters. It’s not whether Obama will get trapped by his rhetoric so much as whether Netanyahu will. And try as he might, Obama has not been able to tone down Netanyahu’s rhetoric.




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Why? Obama doesn’t want use the Bully Pulpit or his prerogatives on Foreign Aid to keep Bibi on a very short leash and Bibi and IAPAC know they have him by the short hairs. Since Obama is more politician than Presidential, Israel will do what it wants and IAPAC will blindly follow its leader while the Administration plays impotant.
David,
Not related to this post, but you might want to let your admins know that http://firedoglake.com is popping with a Malware warning when using Google Chrome.
THis is Natanyahu’s show. We’re just gonna be looky-loos. The question in MY mind, when Israel does whatever they will do, what will WE do????
Thanks for mentioning this. Can’t get into MyFDL. Tried the “contact us” and the same thing happens.
“And the most crucial actor in this whole debate is Benjamin Netanyahu, who does not give off the profile of a patient man.”
——–
David, that is certainly one of your MORE accurate statements in recent articles.
Obama’s idea about being candid about the costs of war is a good one. He should follow his own advice about all our wars: Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan. Let’s have a candid conversation with the American people about the consequences of ALL of those wars we’re currently fighting.
And any others I neglected to mention.
David, when was the last time Obama’s actions/policies agreed with his rhetoric? Netanyahu’s rhetoric is in line with Obama’s desires. Syria and Iran are two of the countries that are targets of the neocon wet dream of regime change in the muslim world. Obama is just running another “con”. “Fool me once,….”
Let me get my tin foil hat adjusted………there! all set.
In my opinion were just getting played again and he’s just setting the stage for plausible deny-ability. I see two scenarios and both have to do with a false flag operation.
1. While he is calling for restraint the USS Enterprise will catch a couple of torpedoes in the Arabian sea in 10,000 ft. of water. All the intelligence will point to Iran (surprise,surprise ). The drums of war will howl like 9/11 and his hands will be tied to retaliate.
2. He really is trying to negotiate and the MIC does an end run around him and does the same thing to start a war. This puts us right in the lead and Israel can just sit back and reap the benefits like always.
I pick number 1 though.
“Considering how seldom we ever open a public debate about the “costs of war” in America, I think that’s pretty refreshing.”
A sociopath doing what a sociopath does is not refreshing. The oligarchs have no regard for human life. Their concern is only what pleases them and that is making a profit. Killing people with drones without due process is murder by another name.
I served in the AF from ’67 to ’71.
A very smart general once said (paraphrased) that a good officer is one who realizes that every decision they make will potentially cost someone their life.
So how many lives of other people are these folks willing to spend?
Shorter Obama: ‘I could’a been a contender.’
If there were any people of conscience left in congress, they would be writing up a resolution specifically telling the President he can take no action on Iran without the approval of congress and that approval can only come after an appropriate amount of time allowed for congress to hear from their constituents and actual debate held on the issue. But I guess only a real representative democracy would do that.
If our government wasn’t a corporatocracy we’d be more objective about our foreign policy, reject unconditional support for the Zionist regime in Israel and exert our influence to promote peace rather than war.
Is that kind of like the open public debate we had about HCR. Obama is all talk and he’s in campaign mode now, so we’re hearing more bullsh*t than usual. Don’t we understand that by now? We’re not ever going to have an open debate about the “costs of war” anymore than we had an open debate about the benefits of Medicare for all.
Here”s what I posted in today’s prior thread about Iran:
“If Obama did not intend to put the US on the course of inevitability, the WH needs to issue a clarification ASAP. Playing cute with the language, which is what diplomats often do, doesn’t cut it when the threat is unconditional use of force based, essentially, on whim. The WH needs to unequivocally state that the Obama statement was not meant as an inevitable precursor to war — and needs to state it simply, clearly, and let it stand.”
Did he accomplish said walkback?
Obama cannot control Netanyahu’s rhetoric as long as Obama is unwilling to buck Congress and AIPAC and pull the $3 billion/year we taxpayers send to Bibi.
Since he’s not getting anything out of Congress anyway, what’s the cost to him?
Certainly can’t do it in an election year.
Me thinks he wants to be on both sides of the issue. You are a war mongrel, if you say that, but I’m just keeping the peace. Yahoo is not gonna forget it, that much is sure.
Obama is just trying to use Jedi Mind Tricks. Obama himself already armed Israel to strike Iran by giving Israel uber-bunkerbusters.
Gen Mattis clip was just on CNN. His biggest threat is Iran.
Do we know if Israel has bunker buster bombs?
Yeah, likely from another century too.
Uh, hasn’t Obama been one of the major War on Ira hype-mongers?
Certainly sounds like that when he’s talking about always having Israel’s back (as in follow the leader?) and “everything is on the table” to use to control Iran.
Sheesh.
You’ve never been in the navy, have you? You have no idea how difficult it is to hit a carrier. First, you have the ASW screen of Frigates and Helos, and then you have at least one SSN that is looking to kill anything before it gets close enough to launch. Once in a while a boat can get lucky, but it is a very rare thing and a suicide mission. The U.S. crews train making mock attacks on carrier groups, which is a luxury the Iranians do not have, and that means the Iranians are at a distinct disadvantage even with quiet electric boats. Really, crazy comments are unhelpful.
I have no idea what is going to happen, but I do know the Israelis are a wild card that the U.S. has no control over. They even have a history of attacking a U.S. Navy ship when it got in their way (for those that don’t remember):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Why the hell there is a “special” relationship with the Israelis, I just cannot figure out.
Obama needs someone to follow him around and whisper in his ear, ” $10 per gallon gas and 20% unemployment.”
“At this stage, it is my belief that we have a window of opportunity” to starve a few hundred thousand Iranian children to death to soften up these heartless and evil nuclear weapon-wielding terrorists. Let me be clear.
That’s why I think it will be a “false flag” operation. I don’t think the Iranians are dumb enough to even try an attack unless attacked first. The Israelis, that’s a different story.
Or any other year.
INdeed….Israel will respond if there is a perceived threat.
———-
“Perceived”……that’s pretty subjective, if I recall my schoolin’.
From, what Netanyahu has said, I think that likmbo bar has already been cleared.
I’m not so sure that the Iranians want to engage the U.S. navy with their navy. The real danger to the U.S. is from mines and cruise missiles, but the latter are easily traceable to launch point. You may remember that the U.S. took Iran on in the late 80s in a short and decisive shooting war as a result of a mine strike on a U.S. frigate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
Yes, and yes.
Some folks still like to pretend as if there really is some room for the US to assert it’s independence of Israel. No US politician rides that train. Probably the last “slap” to Israel was, believe it, G.H.W. Bush suspension of loan guarantees circa 1990 . . . and he, in due course, eventually relinquished.
Let’s be frank: the American body politic — absent incessant propaganda from the MSM — would quite easily accept a far more rational policy towards Israel than is currently the AIPAC-controlled policy. However, the politicians who are the representative/intermediaries for (or against?) the popular will are totally compromised toward towing the AIPAC line. They may also be ignorant on the subject, but political realities dictate that, even if they were better informed, they would go with the easy route of jumping every time Israel (especially Likud) whines.
It would be beneficial if folks became more informed of the core issues that surround the US-Israel relationship which have been formed over the past 50-60 years; and which feature an incredibly successful domestic political organizing effort by intermediaries for a foreign government — AIPAC and it’s predecessors and other groups — which has never successfully been forced to register as an agent of a foreign government.
It would also help if, after beign reasonably well informed, folks would speak out without fear of blowback — and of course there will be blowback by one of the most sophisticated and successful propaganda setups around — including the hasbara network of “volunteers”. And don’t expect any support from your congresscritter.
Sorry for the longwinded lecture. Maybe most here are already aware; increasing awareness and honest communication seem to be the only avenue of shedding some light on a dangerous situation.
Your reply deserves being read twice. The British have a much more rational view of the Israelis, I think. My father considers them terrorists, because he was billeted near the King David Hotel when the Israeli “freedom fighters” bombed it. And that incident is conveniently forgotten by the MSM and the American public.
“Try as he might…”?
I can not stop laughing.
i get that as well.
“Probably the last “slap” to Israel was, believe it, G.H.W. Bush suspension of loan guarantees circa 1990″ Coupled with his reluctance to occupy Iraq like his son, The reign of Bush the Elder was a mere 4 years. Upsetting AIPAC and the MIC is a serious offense thus the experiment with the blue team began and the Third Way was created and implemented, thus allowing for the reigns of Clinton, Bush, and now Obama the Silver Tongued.
An excellent post; contrast the shoot down of an Iranian Airbus by the USS Vincennes, as well as the attack by Iraqi Aircraft on the USS Stark.
Remember the eruption after Rush Limbaugh used bad words?
I wish there was at least an equal eruption when it comes to fomenting unnecessary wars!
All options are on the table; except for diplomacy, of course.
I kind of liked Bibi’s response to Obama’s line of reasoning by quoting real correspondence between the US and people who requested action be taken regarding Auschwitz in 1944. The US line was almost exactly the same as what Obama is saying now.
Israel should ignore the US on this issue.
What would you do if you were Iran with a nuke?
Very easy. You would complete the missile research, send the missiles down to Venezuala where they could reach the US. You’d also pack a few up and get them into the US surrepticiously. Anything goes wrong, you direct your agent to drive the truck to any old place in a big city and start the timer. But, in either case, FIRST, you use your leverage to press the US and others to orient themselves the way you want.
Basically, we’d have a situation like the old USSR situation, except with a fanatical, religious USSR. Who the hell wants that?
It would be like having a fanatical Christian right group with a doomsday weapon held over the head of the Democratic and progressive groups.
One of the great mysteries of the Johnson administration.
If it had been me, there’d have been a half-dozen Israeli jets at the bottom of the Mediterranean and my hands around the Israeli ambassador’s throat.
We’ve been their house boy ever since.
BTW, a better site than the wiki
http://www.gtr5.com/
And do you conclude that the US has been anything but the most staunch supporter of Israel through the past decades, it’s proxy veto at the UN, and quite often it’s only advocate in the world?
If so, what’s the problem?
Throwing in some conspiratorial scenario that fantasizes some direct threat to the US doesn’t really strengthen whatever case it is you are making. And taking cues from Bibi, well, as we know, he’s PM of Israel not the US.
That’s exactly what is happening. Notice how Obama uses the language of follower. If Obama would make a definitive stand, it might, just maybe, mean something. But he’s doing his usual little non definitive song and dance, passing the buck, that always leads to the OnePercent having their way with the country and its people.
Certainly the congress will want somebody else to give up their lives not their own or someone from their family or social network.
Where in the Arabian Sea is there almost two miles of seawater to depth? It’s news to me . . .
While I concur with yer two scenario’s, I don’t think this broo ha ha is all about actions.
I remain persuaded first that the entire world is aware of the horror an attack on Iran will unleash.
I also remain persuaded that an attack will unleash India, Russia, China, Pakistan, and of course Shia and Muslim sympathies and deadly responses world wide.
To sum up, I think CTuttle posted one or two diaries explainin HE thinks this is all about two things, and I remain attached to his premises:
1) This is all about electioneering, Obama and Bibi both. They are up for elections.
2) All the while this broo ha ha continues about Iran and war, Israel and BIBI continue to displace, abuse, kill and slaughter Palistineans for their lands and place radical Zionist settlers on the land they they are stealing.
N that’s it, simple and neat, Political Bluster and Genocide/Expansion.
End of story, the rest is kabuki to cover the two solid and salient points.
Any and all, simple answer to simple questions.
Shit, this is the Right Wing Christian Born Again Xtian US Air FORCE we’re talking about.
They think everyone and thing is expendable not for defense of country but to ascend to Rapture.
No life matters to these radicals in regards to their religious views, and they OWN the USAF. As I’m sure you’ve heard by now.
If I was a pony with a horn on its head I’d shit rainbow glitter out my butt, too. Also. Ya betcha.
*rollseyes*
“Now, what’s said on the campaign trail, you know, those folks don’t have a lot of responsibilities. They’re not commander in chief. And when I see the casualness with which some of these folks talk about war,….”
This is a man who graduated with honors from Harvard Law. I don’t imagine he referred to his fellows as ‘those folks’.
Obama is a complete and utter social fraud.
Yes, but we don’t care, it’s all kabuki.
Elections.
Continued destruction of Palistine and Palistineans.
That’s the game, the rest is kabuki.
Yer welcome. ;-)
Just curious are you updated with Iran’s weapons and such? From Russia and more?
N aside from the missles they have that will get thru any defensive measures Navy or AF has overhead, there are a myriad of measures Iran has to sink and clog The Straits.
But they CAN do damage from missles alone I believe.
I mean, it’s not like the navy or air force have Reagan Era or better star wars laser technology for hundreds of hundreds of targets.
;-)
We’re already at 20% unemployment if one can find the courage to dismiss the methodology that Q3 numbers produce.
We are likely at 25% or more, nation wide if one considers chronic umemployed since ’04 when the shit began, the one’s stopped looking for work since, the one’s not on the labor rolls for UE Compensation, the UNDERemployed, and such.
N this unemployment thang is gonna grow and be the thing that kills this empire. If mama nature and total collapse from warmaking and overextension (See Rome/USSR) dont’ get us first.
Sooner or later . . . empires that fail to meet the needs of the masses always fail, history proves it. We all know this.
;-)
Iran is not the country it was then, it’s the phreaking 2012 now.
They are MUCH more heavily armed for defensive purposes.
NO amount of first strike by anyone can stop them from instantly replying before the first strike is completed.
N everyone in Israel and USA and Russia, China, Pakistan and India know this and count on it.
There will be no attacks on Iran.
But if there are, it will be the end of the world as we know it.
N that’s fucking obvious to most everyone on the planet that counts except for war mongers and saber rattlers who want to win an election or pressure a public to buy into the MIC.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
I’d hope FireBaggers would stop fanning the flames of rear in these regards.
Cuz the REAL reality is, if war comes, it’s the end of the world as we know it.
Really.
Would I lie to you?
NIcely crafted, points galore left out but it’s short n sweet.
*G*
You again?
What a load of shit.
None of it supported, all of it conjectured to support a premise that can’t be proven.
Red State called, they want you back.
Don’t let me hold you here.
Go. PLEASE!
The answer, my freind, is blowing in the wind
Isreal,a rather “extremist” state who routinely ignore international conventions and frequently attack thier neighbors, has over 300 nuclear warheads.As a matter of fact all of them are just as “illegal” as any hypothetical iranian nuke. Isreal is in no danger at from any hypothetical Iranian nuke .
America should not spill another drop of blood for some bullshit war.