The general take I’m hearing from people inside the courtroom today is that Solicitor General Donald Verrilli blew it during arguments on the health care law’s individual mandate. I wasn’t in the courtroom, so I can only go by other people’s takes:
In the first hour of a two-hour hearing, the court’s liberal justices were largely silent, but three of its four most conservative members expressed reservations that upholding the mandate could significantly alter the powers of the federal government. So did Justice Anthony Kennedy, often the court’s swing vote.
Kennedy said Tuesday that the law “changes the relationship of the federal government to the individual in a very fundamental way,” and he pressed the Obama administration’s lawyer, Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, on why the insurance requirement wouldn’t leave Congress with nearly limitless authority.
“When you are changing the relationship of the individual to the government, do you not have a unique obligation to show authorization under the Constitution?” he asked.
The court’s conservatives peppered Verrilli with questions about whether Congress could also force Americans to buy broccoli, burial insurance or cellular phones as part of commercial regulations down the road. Verrilli said lawmakers couldn’t do that, but the justices seemed unconvinced.
“Once you’re into interstate commerce and can regulate it, pretty much all bets are off,” Chief Justice John Roberts said. Added Justice Antonin Scalia: “What is left? If the government can do this, what else can it not do?”
I don’t think we should totally extrapolate the arguments in the hearing to the final outcome. But I don’t see a lot of daylight here from Kennedy, Roberts or Scalia, thought to be the three most likely to side with the less conservative Justices and uphold the mandate.
In the second hour, however, Kennedy and Roberts, at least, questioned the argument from the plaintiffs, representing the 26 states, almost as harshly. Kennedy did say that the uninsured were “an actuarial reality” because of their relationship to the overall market, in terms of premiums. Roberts also seemed to agree that the health care market is unique because of this reality, and because eventually, everyone requires health care.
Lyle Denniston at SCOTUSBlog says it’s Kennedy’s call:
If Justice Anthony M. Kennedy can locate a limiting principle in the federal government’s defense of the new individual health insurance mandate, or can think of one on his own, the mandate may well survive. If he does, he may take Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., along with him. But if he does not, the mandate is gone. That is where Tuesday’s argument wound up — with Kennedy, after first displaying a very deep skepticism, leaving the impression that he might yet be the mandate’s savior.
If the vote had been taken after Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., stepped back from the lectern after the first 56 minutes, and the audience stood up for a mid-argument stretch, the chances were that the most significant feature of the Affordable Care Act would have perished in Kennedy’s concern that it just might alter the fundamental relationship between the American people and their government. But after two arguments by lawyers for the challengers — forceful and creative though they were — at least doubt had set in. and expecting the demise of the mandate seemed decidedly premature.
So Verrilli did a terrible job, but that might not matter. But for two years now, most observers have suspected that this would come down to Anthony Kennedy. That’s probably accurate.
UPDATE: Jeffrey Toobin, at least, thinks the law will get struck down, or at least the mandate.
UPDATE II: TPM has a link to the transcript for today’s hearing.




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So Verrilli did a terrible job.
As did the White House and the Democratic leadership in both Houses of Congress in coming up with this crap sandwich that Verrilli is trying to defend.
Just think: if the Court strikes down this awful bill, Barack Obama will go into the election with zero major legislative accomplishments. Whiffing on an entire presidential term is quite a feat.
How is this different from the law that makes you buy car insurance? Is that not a mandate?
Who forces you to buy a car? And yet you have to have a life. (Well, not me, I watch cartoons.)
Again, insurance is a piss-poor way to deliver health care. This is the wrong battle to be fighting. We should be arguing for universal health care — no insurers allowed.
That worked out so well in Bush v. Gore.
It’s a variant of him voting “present” all those years in the Illinois state senate.
The whole thing is deeply ironic as the mandate is a Republican idea that was hatched at the Heritage Foundation, and that a “socialist” Dem is the one defending it in front of a right leaning court.
I’ve read several books by Supreme Court insiders, who suggest that Kennedy all but salivated at the prospect of sticking his nose in the Florida recount and emerging as the hero who averted a National Crisis.
What I find absolutely incredible is that Kennedy and his fellow justices had no idea how much Bush v. Gore would infuriate a large portion of the legal community and spur accusations that the Court was the D.C. Local of the International Brotherhood of Political Hacks.
Ya beat me to it. O won’t hire anyone who doesn’t flunk a competency test.
Then there’s that whole moral hazard thing, of which insurance is the prime example. All the incentives are for the ins corp to collect premiums and pay no claims. So insurance corps have to be regulated. At least states make a pretense of doing that for car insurance, but the USG will make no pretense of regulating medical insurance.
I would never hire Obama as a human resources manager, as his hiring skills are incredibly suspect.
Funny how we have now a SCOTUS consisting of one judge.
Ever think Verrilli was *supposed* to do a terrible job? That way everybody gets a piece of the Victory Pie.
IMO, O’s hiring skills are perfect. It’s part of the general plan to convince population that govt is incompetent, so that we don’t mind its being drowned a bathtub.
“Draw them in with prospect of gain, take them by confusion.” Sun Tzu, The Art of War
The health care fight morphed from universal to pubilic option to individual mandate where now the supposed “liberals” are defending a mandate to buy a defective product that creates profit through human suffering. The fascists are winning. Even if the mandate is struck down by itself, the majority of this industry friendly act will remain intact or the industry will revert back to what is was doing prior to the act.
The questions that should be before the court is whether health care is a human right or not and should an industry profit off the misfortunes of others?
The other 8 are there to make you think there are 2 sides. On book salon a week or so ago, Ari Berman did not understand that O’s appointees are conservatives whose job is to vote the other side so voters won’t recognize how conservative they are until O is reelected, and appoints some real horror shows in his second term. (Wonder if Herman Cain is available.)
You can opt out of buying a car or choosing to drive.
The problem is you can’t opt out of getting sick. Eventually all of our bodies begin to deteriorate. It’s part of the human experience.
The questions that should be before the court is whether health care is a human right or not and should an industry profit off the misfortunes of others?
I’m beginning to think that the right wing will soon conclude that there is no such thing as a “right” unless you are rich, well-connected, or a member of a prominent family. All others will have “duties,” and the occasional “privilege” conferred during good behavior.
And as I pointed out in 9, govt has to regulate ins corps, which states still do, to one degree or another, but USG won’t do at all wrt med ins.
If the insurance industry (interesting word here for insurance: industry) were made up of investors who were also and only those who are insured, and rates set to cover those events for which it was designed, we would not have this mess. The profits, if any would go to those who actually own policies or saved for the proverbial “rainy day”.
Insurance should never, never be about making money.
The GOP/rightwing wins either way on this:
If the mandate is ruled constitutional, it paves for the way for privatization of medicare and who knows what else.
If the mandate is overturned, the Dems will give up on health reform just like they did after the Hillarycare fiasco.
Thanks Dems for this huge pile of dogsh*t.
In a capitalist society, unfortunately, the question is always who PAYS for it moreso than what the minimum standard should be.
Correct. If there were actually two sides, as should be in the Senate, for instance, then a deciding vote would have legitimacy.
Now we have SCOTUS.
Then there is POTUS.
So I guess that makes Congress …. CO(I)TUS ???
this is some of the very best news I have heard from the scotus in a very long long time, I was under the impression corporate health care would tell scotus to vote for the mandate
let’s hope this is how it winds up, without the mandate
The way the Democrats handled HCR reminds me of a play in last fall’s USC-Notre Dame football game. ND, on the USC 1-yard line, fumbled the snap which was picked up by a USC defender and ran in for a touchdown. “Game-changer” doesn’t begin to describe that play.
Its different than car insurance because car insurance is about liability… you are forced to have insurance thats covers your negligence and the damage you may inflict on someone else. It is protecting anothe individual and not you. (but i disagre with auto too. wa acooked up bu th einsurance lobby. most people already have uninsured/under insured coverage. which is the very POINT of having car insurane in the first place)
Like others have stated… we really need to differentiate between insurance and care. Insurance does not = care. And there are plenty of insured people who dont get the actual care they need or still cant afford said care.
I read the transcript. The mandate is going down, at least 5 to 4 (maybe even 6-3 based on Sotomayor’s questioning). And, yes, one can tell a great deal from SOCTUS oral arguments. The Justices are largely transparent and use OA to attempt to influence the other justices.
A few highlights:
Scalia’s very first question:
Public health care — in the form of a public option or national coverage — would present no Constitutional problem but Obama had to get cute. Reap what you sow.
Justice Kennedy’s first question/comment:
Scalia again:
All of this was completely unnecessary. Had Obama not cut his dirty deals to sell-out the public option (and betray his supporters) there would be no individual mandate. You reap what you sow.
The state regulatory agencies suck. The reason Blue Cross got away with throwing so many people off the health care roles in California was because Blue Cross was “too big to sue” and basically threatened to tie the state regulators up in court.
Heck for that matter the federal regulators aren’t much better. We’ve got a backasswards system that basically allows habitual offenders to negotiate lower settlements rather than increasing the penalties for each offense.
i disagree. I think it actually paves the way to SINGLE PAYER.
The court striking this down is the best possible outcome IMO.
I’m betting Kennedy upholds and younger workers, with huge debt overhang already, refuse to buy insurance and they’re penalized. That doesn’t fly so the gov’t ups the penalty and adds garnishments, etc to the mandate. And just like the IRS and your State Dept. of Revenue does; they either get the money or the next time you need a gov’t service, etc it won’t turn out well.
I wanted to mention the Scalia observation – you beat me to it. Gack – I agree with Scalia, this is not a health care mandate, it is an insurance mandate. If the gov’t wanted to provide health care, instead of sell us insurance, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Another big difference is the percentage of income the premiums cost. For a lot of people, it’s almost their entire paycheck.
This is a circus,questions about broccoli or the like.All the justices
have made up their minds already,the abominable mandate is going to survive
it does not matter how.Justices and Obama are advocates for corporations,that answers all questions.
Coitus ergo sum.
“…corporate health care would tell scotus to vote for the mandate….”
I have seen a number of arguments that a corporate friendly court would uphold the mandate but I suspect that there are at least as many corporations shuddering in fear that if the mandate is upheld it could be applied to corporate purchases just as easily as to individuals.
After all, Corps are people too, SCOTUS has so decreed.
That’s right and both Scalia and Kennedy made that very point. A public option would be fine as would single payer. But no. Obama had to cut his sleazy deals and come up with this individual mandate nonsense. Think of it: an entire presidency, one ushered it with such great promise, squandered enacting a weak, corporatist and unconstitutional health insurance law.
This would be fucking hysterical if it weren’t so pathetic. I guess the liberal purists who warned about the consequences of passing the Heritage Foundation’s plan weren’t so stupid after all, eh?
This fiasco was completely predicted by the Professional Left, though not by six-figure Democratic political consultants who were saying that the law would become magically popular with the public, would save the House for Democrats, and would lower premiums for everyone.
No one’s arguing that the uncompromising Medicare (which could have simply been expanded) is unconstitutional, just this Rube Goldberg ACA piece of shit.
And let’s take this to it’s logical extension. Because everyone gets sick, and let’s take colds for example. Should we be mandated to buy chicken soup, and Vitamin C because it has benefits in fighting colds.
Should the government mandate we purchase a certain amount of veges to cut down on our proportion of meat because of the health risk! Should the government mandate we all buy floss because flossing help prevent tooth decay. Silly as this sounds, once you establish bad precedent, that barn door is almost impossible to close!
Yeah, but some are more equal than others.
Never thought I’d agree with Scalia but he nailed this one.
IOW:
We are so fucked!
I was referring more to the state auto ins regulators. They also don’t do a good job, but don’t do as bad a job as med ind regulators. Drivers are less vulnerable than sick people, so they are still able to make a fuss when car ins rates gets too high.
We now know enough about O to be pretty certain that USG won’t reg med ins AT ALL. So as bad as the state bodies are, they suck less.
This is also my thinking. If the individual mandate is struck as unconstitutional, but the rest of ACA is upheld, then the insurance companies are in the nasty position of not being able to refuse to insure people who would literally apply for coverage from the ER’s free WiFi. In that scenario, I can’t see how private insurance survives. The cost for insurance then becomes nominally what the penalty is that you pay to the IRS. How can United HealthCare compete with that!
It is in this way that I feel the individual mandate is a great poison pill. I think it’s a stroke of genius. SCOTUS can’t rule in unconstitutional and simultaneously be loyal to the insurance industry. The whole idea of individual mandate was a conservative appeal to insurance companies to begin with, right? What am I missing?
Yep, health insurance for us in our late 50′s is a yes/no proposition. Can I afford the monthly, or not? Even with $2K deductible (each, per year), healthy lifestyle, we’re talking almost $800 / month for me and Mrs. PB. Roughly $10K per year for the insurance, $4K deductible, no prescription, no vision, 50% dental. $14K per year – about what my wife makes as a substitute teacher (no benefits). So only one of us is currently covered. Maybe when Medicare kicks in, we’ll both be covered again. If it is still there.
I agree because owning a car in my neck of the woods is essential to having a job, for example. Since the state requires car insurance then the state should provide a low cost alternative to private insurance. The same goes for health insurance. If the US government requires health insurance then the government should provide a low cost alternative. Medicare for all who want it!!
It was a stroke all right. Genius? Not so much.
It does seem silly and I feel you’re making a false comparison. No one is demanding that the local Walgreens give you floss when you have popcorn stuck in your gums. However, Federal Law requires that ER’s treat you when you appear in their waiting room. That is the difference, and it is profound.
Accidental genius, then?
this Rube Goldberg ACA piece of shit.
Not only was this a horrible piece of legislation–how else do you describe something whose only comprehensible provision is the hated mandate?–but the process that led to its passage was tawdry beyond belief. It revealed once and for all the mendacity of the Obama White House and Capitol Hill Democrats.
“. Maybe when Medicare kicks in, we’ll both be covered again. If it is still there”
My aunt died last year because she was in those nether years. She didnt make to her benefits kicking in.
My mother turned 65 – got Medicare, got a checkup, discovered lung cancer, too late to operate, died 16 months later. Yep, if you don’t have coverage, you don’t know what you are missing (can’t afford checkups when nothing seems wrong).
Can I have some of whatever you’re on?
Do you have a bitter pot of je ne sais quoi?
Even stranger if you consider Obama fast tracked this, so it would be decided before the election.
revisionist – mine @51 was a reply to you. And sorry about your aunt. I’m working hard to get full-time employment with benefits, but at my age, it is mostly 1099 contract work I’m finding. Until then, Mrs. PB gets the medical insurance – good thing, she’s accident prone!
Obama is reputed to be a good poker player, but if he plays cards as poorly as he played health care reform, a 10-year-old named “Zack” would clean him out in half an hour on PartyPoker.com.
First off, if you have a cold then chicken soup might make you feel a little better but it isn’t going to do bupkiss in terms of your actual health.
The conversation is geared towards a person who ends up in the ER with pneumonia(and let’s make this clear an ER is REQUIRED to treat emergent conditions and has been since 1986 when EMTALA was passed) or something that actually can be resolved through medical coverage.
As long as the EMTALA exists and the medical community is forced to expend resources it is common sense to have a discussion on how those resources be paid for. The mandate basically would insure that the medical community was compensated instead of being forced to write off a larger and larger portions of health care rendered or increasing the cost on those that actually do have insurance.
Oops for some reason this didn’t post as a response. This was meant to be a response to psalongo.
Haha yes, I am happy to share. And, thanks for the Warren Zevon link.
But, seriously, how is my logic flawed?:
Isn’t the natural next step single-payor or some other form of universal coverage/care?
This is how this will be spun in the Obama fan world.
Make it so bad it’s illegal, and it’s good again.
I’m willing to bet, the AHIP lawyers who wrote the ACA have their bases covered and if the individual mandate is struck down, those of us who have to pay for their products (literally out of fear for our lives) will bear the expense. Just like we always do.
then the issue would actually seem to be FOR PROFIT hospitals????
And the “medical community” already charges us back with $5 aspirins and MRIs that cost 2-3X what the cost in any other country
It seemed clear to me at the time that the process of writing the bill was so transparently corrupt and poisonous that it was going to forever be tarnished by association in the public’s mind. When people think of it today, I’m quite sure they remember the Ben Nelson bribe and Billy Tauzin meetings very vividly. But, as I was saying, the six-figure Democratic political consultants said otherwise…
Nothing, nada, zippo. Well he got bin Laden after all.
I still don’t think this is going down, but I suppose I can live with it. Only problem will be when will we get another shot at it? Maybe they will keep it as a “voluntary” program?
Do not miss this:
Affording Health Care and Education on the Minimum Wage
LINK.
shot at what blue?
forced insurance from an unregulated industry?
you are far better off paying for insurance where you are not captive to a mandate, far far better off
Single payer in the US will not reduce costs.
The US has a systemic problem that is far larger than health care.
What do the future doctors learn as they are racking up $250,000 to $400,000 in loans for medical school? In addition to medicine?
Charge high fees (aka: Greed)? Go into medicine to become rich?
The systemic problems are: First to fix healthcare one also has to fix higher education costs; Second, fix the predatory the student loan industry and Third, reduce the population of highest net wealth to much less wealth.
In addition as one cuts 20% of the economy down to 10%, what does that do to unemployment? An increase in 10% of potential unemployment is political suicide, even if it is an unnecessary burden (excessive overhead) on the overall economy.
Obama made the political calculation he made, and passed a republican health care plan to avoid tackling the systemic problems. The systemic problems require confronting issues and rocking the boat. Obama is neither willing nor able to confront or rock, because it raises the potential of the “angry black man” accusation.
Unfortunately not tackling the systemic problems is the same as putting a dress on a pig. It wastes time and annoys the pig (The vested interests, The Medical and Insurance industries).
The Republican solution has to be tried, and fail (as it will, even if the ACA passes the SCOTUS test), that is the American way, before the reforms necessary for single payer can be enacted. Reforms which require changes to some very deep rooted values in American life.
Churchill said it well (he had an American Mother, I believe), “The Americans will eventually arrive at the correct solution, after exhausting every other possibility”.
You may well be right. I guess maybe the best we can hope for is that the electorate will wake up and find some way to overwhelm the money interest. And that is not something upon which I am willing to place a bet.
the natural next step would have been a buy in to medicare at 10 to 20 percent over the actual costs.
that would be perfect, it would force the insurance industry into actually competing
of course it will, we have single payer in America, it’s administered to veterans and it does reduce costs
they would have to break it to make it cost the same as insurance
Anyone that thinks there is going to be “Medicare for All” is living in a dreamworld. The next step for Medicare is going to be providing a voucher so that older folks can buy a PRIVATE health insurance plan. Mark my words.
“As long as the EMTALA exists and the medical community is forced to expend resources it is common sense to have a discussion on how those resources be paid for. The mandate basically would insure that the medical community was compensated instead of being forced to write off a larger and larger portions of health care rendered or increasing the cost on those that actually do have insurance.”
So point where is it in ACA that its passage resulted in the government paying for all ER bills? What you say may be something interesting to talk about, but I don’t see what it has to do with ACA. Are you arguing that everyone who pays non-insurance fine actually gets a form of public option where they can then go to the ER or elsewhere for medical treatment paid for by the federal government? I must say it is refreshing to at least see an ACA defender be forthcoming that this is about protecting corporate profits rather than protecting patients. Businesses of course have to do things that cost money – like installing safety equipment/anti-pollution/etc – but they don’t get any offsets from the government for following the law…it’s called a cost of doing business.
Providers can charge whatever they want. Medicare and Medicaid will cover only what they have determined is reasonable cost–and those are fixed procedure by procedure, item by item, etc.
I agree that both Ds and Rs want to privatize everything, just the Rs are more upfront about their intentions while Democrats say one thing in public while in private back rooms do another.
I agree with you. The argument for Medicare Groupons will be something on the order of “a number of providers, including AARP, have been offering Medicare supplement coverage for years; thus we have a mature market with reputable providers.” And Capitol Hill Democrats, the most timorous creatures in the animal kingdom, will offer little resistance.
Cost of veterans medical care is being reduced a lot. U.S. military is offering vets with lifetime injuries a lump sum instead of lifetime care, and the young vets are falling for it. I got this from some one I know well who works as a LPN for the VA. I don’t know if she knows the magnitude of the lump sum. I’ll ask next time I see her.
It’s a scandal, of course.
ACA didn’t result in the governing paying ER bills.
ER’s are required by Federal Law (1986 law I think) to treat all comers. The argument is, so long as we’ve recognized that people have a right to treatment, we recognize they have a responsibility to pay. I’m not a fan of the individual mandate, but I think it represents a workable compromise.
The basic problem is that the US taxpayer doesn’t want to pay for indigent care, so those of us with insurance are picking up the cost through inflated charges resulting in inflated premiums. It’s retarded logic, but there it is. We’re much better off with universal health care where we force everyone to pay their fair share. Since we couldn’t get that through Congress, we have this hybrid system that makes everyone unhappy. At least, that’s how I see it.
Ouch.
Thanks for the link.
Here’s an example, using only two procedure codes. Don’t know if it’s still true, but historically Medicare and Medicaid vary from that rule in one instance: if you bill less than they have established as standard reimbursement for any particular procedure, they will go with the lower amount, the one you billed.
Kind of lends a new meaning to the phrase “take your lumps.”
You betcha!
You shouldn’t tar every D with that brush. There really are D’s that are far to the left of the R’s. The problem the Democratic party has is that it is a “big tent” party, with a lot of variations as to the views of its members. Unlike the Republicans, who have become, in the past 30 years, a very homogeneous lot. In fact, the more moderate R’s are often in the D party, now, largely due to social issues like abortion rights and gay rights. Those issues are anathema to the Republicans, but the righter-wing Dems are in agreement with the R’s on spending issues, because, after all, if it weren’t for the total social wing-nuttery of the Republican Party, they would be Republicans. This demographic isn’t going to change very soon.
Car insurance requirement is for liability for damage you to do others or their property, while driving on publicly-funded roads. You’re not required to have coverage for damage to yourself or your own property.
Yeah, it definitely has a through-the-looking-glass feel. And it highlights the gross political miscalculation by the 11th-dimensional chess masters of the Obama Administration.
Kennedy holds deciding vote? You don’t say? This headline could have been written last week, or years ago.
It’s fun to speculate but really we don’t know. Jeffrey Toobin doesn’t know how this will go down. Kennedy is almost always the deciding vote; that much we can be sure. Nice to be the most powerful man in America.
Scrap the IM, scrap the whole bill, fine. But replace it with something better. Because it will be hard to bring torches and pitchforks to Aetna and the rest. Those places are fortresses.
Heckuva job, Verrilli.
Car insurance is a mandate from the state, not the feds, who are constrained by the constitution.
Obama’s chess skills suck at any level, not just the “11th dimensional” chess level.
Ironcomments, your comment proves yer moniker is correct ..
‘health insurance for all’ is Democrats playing ya’ll for fools ..
‘health care as a human right’ is the single defensible goal & outcome ..
any jackass who proposes anything less is demonstrating their love of insurance company cash over their love of their sick grandma – so vote the motherfAkers out of office!
God bless Winston Churchill. Still true after all these years.
~hmmm – I’m speculating one of the dynamic duo of capitulation to lawlessness .. schneiderman or c.harris (from CA) – probably harris as she is sister-in-law of a USDOJ quisling of the executive branch
but I could be surprised by the appointment of eric “no due process for you, little person” holder .. who reminds me of so many cheap suited used car salesmen level legal mouth pieces for the exec branch (e.meese & j.mitchell come to mind as well as… – see v2 at the demise) http://acmeartscollective.com/thedemise/2012/03/08/v2-03-08-12/
>>at least that holder cheap suit wears some expensive suits!
Even if a venture is non profit(and many hospitals are)you still have to pay medical costs.
I worked at a Navy Hospital. I assure you the medications in those pharmacies are not free despite the fact that it is a non profit entity.
Oh and for the record, every year in September I got to hand out ious instead of heart meds because the pharmacy budget was EMPTY.
You don’t have to own a car. You do have to own your body ( unless your a women according to the Rethugs.) So, this so called law amounts to State sponsored extortion. Pay this guy over here ( who pays my campaign bills by the way) or get FINED ( taxed). What product or service that we cannot live without becomes the next mandate service or item? The very very slippery slope indeed. From the Progressive pt. of view if its so important that everyone must be in then its something that like Medicare or SSI should be a Nat’l program that is funded through a tax. But, that would cut out the so called health Ins. pirates wouldn’t it?
Obamacare will fail but it won’t be replaced with single payer ever. Instead, Medicare will be privatized ( gutted) and the elderly will be left to die if they can’t afford Ins. It’s a ruthless ugly way out of this and the GOP and its Dinocratic enablers are going in that direction. Why? because sick / broke old people can’t fight back.
Directly? There isn’t anything that directly states hospitals will be reimbursed. However, if you go to an ER and you have insurance then they are billed for your visit. The ACA mandates that you have insurance, pay a fine, or prove that you are too indigent to afford either of those. Basically what the ACA does is makes the problem smaller, it doesn’t completely remove it by forcing people that can afford insurance to get insurance.
I’m not a fan of the ACA but I completely get the idea of mandating coverage. I even would have supported ACA and a mandate had it included a public option that could have worked as a lever to control costs(A real public option could have been the equivalent of Medicare as long as it captured about 10% of the population). As it stands right now I can take or leave the mandate. I figure the way this law is written this admin kicked the can. We’ll be discussing health care 10 years from now no matter how SCOTUS rules.
Old people vote. Reliably. Whether they vote using the correct facts or not is another matter. But they vote.
The interstate commerce act is overly broad. If your Broccoli comes from another state, it can be regulated. Whether you eat it or not is up to you. Your doctor cannot force you to take your pills or eat your broccoli, even if it is in your interests
The correct analogy is regulating arsenic in the water or restricting smoking.
You’d think this court would wise up after Bush v Gore and Citizens United. Funny how Scalia came up with a rationalization for the goverment regulating home grown medical marijuana. Now he has to come up with another rationalization to overturn healthcare.
Robert Reich came up with a great idea if SCOTUS overturns just the mandate for ACA. Obama just refues to repeal the preexisting condition mandate. This would cause many to drop insurance. The insurance companies would be in a real bind. Obama would then demand that Congress pass Medicare for all. This would take real balls on Obama’s part, so I doubt he’d do it.
Time for some real reform on the Supreme Court. They’ve become too powerful for appointed officals. One thing would be mandatory retirement for the longest serving Justice each year and requiring a 2/3 majority to declare any law unconstitutional. Funny how they just took the power to declares laws uncontitutional. Certainly doesn’t say that in the constitution. Nor was it the intent of the founders. Something needs to be done.
eCAHN, my wife and stepdaughter both work at VA near Boston. Neither has heard about the lump sum deal, but if it’s new and for new enrollees the hospitals may not all be in the loop yet. Still, I’m a MOAA member and would be flabbergasted if they hadn’t sent out alarms from the gitgo — nothing there, either.
My understanding is the mandate is merely a penalty to force people to buy insurance. It would comprise an insignificant overall cost of healthcare.
As for my chicken soup analogy, it has been proven chicken soup does help relieve cold symptoms. My point however was government imposing on the citizens laws that mandate we buy private corporate goods and services because we are alive is unconstitutional. The constitutional president should know this. Then again, that could be said of indefinite detention and a host of various other acts.
Not everyone uses an emergency room nor would need to even if you didn’t have healthcare.
Regardless, this mandated measure is unconstitutional.
Geez, I was floored by that too. Can’t believe I wanted to say “Right the fuck on” after Scalia said something.