Allow me to agree with Rand Paul. We already have significant sanctions on Iran, which mainly hurt the population rather than the regime. The Senate wanted to take another dip with an even more stringent set of sanctions. And Paul said no.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) blocked an effort Tuesday to quickly pass a bipartisan bill imposing tough sanctions on Iran, demanding that Congress make clear that the United States is not rushing into another war.
“Our young men and women, our soldiers, deserve thoughtful debate,” Paul, the tea party freshman with libertarian leanings, said on the floor. “Before sending our young men and women into combat, we should have a mature and thoughtful debate over the ramifications of war, over the advisability of war and over the objectives of war.”
Paul wants Senate Democrats to allow a vote on his amendment that says that nothing in the measure “shall be construed as a declaration of war or an authorization of use of force against Iran or Syria.”
The House already passed this sanctions bill, which would mainly punish US corporations who do business with Iran. And the fact that Paul pulled the trigger on the one Iran sanctions bill that affects corporations is not lost on me. But is anything that he says here wrong?
The sanctions and the general belligerence are driving the US to war in Iran, which would mark the third in that region of the world in a little over a decade. Harry Reid claims that the sanctions bill has no reference to war, and that may be right in the technical sense. In that case, Paul’s request, that nothing in the bill “shall be construed as a declaration of war or an authorization of use of force against Iran or Syria,” should be no problem whatsoever (I don’t really know why Syria’s in there). And yet this is seen as a terrible imposition on the rush to impose new sanctions. Reid would have to file cloture and maybe take up a whole day on the issue. He might even have to give Paul’s amendment, a restatement of fact according to him, a vote!
Sadly, there just aren’t that many members of Congress willing to be skeptical of the executive warmaking powers, and the tendency to deprive Congress of those Constitutionally derived powers. I understand that Rachel Maddow’s new book Drift addresses this topic. That’s a step forward. And I hope she recognizes that her main ally in Washington on these issues happens to be Rand Paul.





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I am curious, David, to learn who, specifically, you include in, “…there just aren’t that many members of Congress willing to be skeptical of the executive warmaking power, and the tendency to deprive Congress of those Constitutionally derived powers.”?
Congress has willingly, even happily, relinquished those powers, for many decades …
It would be very useful, to many here and elsewhere, were you to name names.
It cannot be that the naming would require much of your time to compile or our time to read.
Perhaps, it might be very much worth those few well-spent seconds?
I am not engaging in snark, I am suggesting that we need to know who, if anyone, in Congress, even Rand Paul, will dare to stand up and say what needs being said … we may debate the reason why they say what they say, but we must, surely, agree upon the need, even the moral need, of it being said.
Thank you, David, I hope that this post may be front-paged, for it is a dire and important reality you underline.
DW
US sanctions on Japan were a key factor in the initiation of the US-Japan war in 1941. Prime Minister Konoe, rebuffed in sanction negotiation attempts by President Roosevelt, resigned as prime minister and was replaced by the pro-military General Hideki Tojo. War plans were developed and then came the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Currently in Iran the moderate President Ahmadinejad and the more dogmatic Ayatollah Khamenei have had a long-running feud, and chances are that increased belligerence toward Iran, and more sanctions, will strengthen the hardliners. In the US, Rep. Ron Paul has called sanctions an act of war. His supporters are few or none.
Antiwar’s John Glaser wrote about this too…
…Columbia University Professor Gary Sick has called the sanctions effort “the equivalent of a blockade. It’s an act of war.” Trita Parsi, of the National Iranian American Council, wrote last week that “the sanctions strategy on Iran will very soon reach [the] point” of escalating the situation with Iran to one of “two policies: Regime change or war. Or Both.”
Indeed, with no actual pretext (Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapons program) and perfectly available peaceful alternatives to war, that seems to be Washington’s end game.
The current US-Israel strategy is this tiresome, pre-arranged good-cop, bad-cop routine where Iran is given a “choice” between a belligerent US and a supposedly more belligerent Israel. It’s good election politics, and it takes settlements, boundaries and Palestine statehood completely off the agenda.
Politically it’s a winner, and who cares about 78 million Persians or increasing the chances of war as US warships multiply off Iran’s coast to “protect shipping” — mostly oil tankers heading out to or back from China, an Iran supporter (among others).
Good for you, Dave. I agree with him, too. I imagine most of the ‘dogs here will. :o)
Rand Paul is a nutcase of enormous portions.
Just bc a stopped clock is right twice/day is no reason to call attention to it.
Named after Ayn Rand. ‘Nuff said.
Well, for a brief moment, Rand Paul’s name came up as a potential VP for Romney. With this, he kisses that goodbye. Maybe he should be Obama’s VP.
Worked out so well for us back in 1941 with the Japanese. Nice job on the quote though! You might suspect they would tried to veil this sort of economic warfare better, seems the old weapons of yesteryear cannot have the effect that the powers that be wish.
To others in this thread, you might really dislike the more fringe opinions of Rand Paul, but that doesn’t mean you need to deride him for this.
eCAHN@6: I just have to disagree with you on this point. I think we need to take support where we can find it. If Rand (who is not, Jim@7, named after Ayn Rand) is willing to step up and shine a light on the rush to war, then I think it is worth giving him some attention. He may be a nutcase, and I don’t even care what his motivation is….if there is a way to slow this train wreck down…or prevent it entirely….then we should look for ways to do so.
If Rand Paul wants to vote against sanctions, an “authorization to use force,” or an actual, constitutional declaration of war, good for him. I still wouldn’t vote for the idiot.
If there were anything else about AynRand Paul close to a normal human being, I might allow you your point.
There isn’t. He is just about 5 std deviations off the center. Forming any alliance with such a jerk can bring only bad things to the antiwar movement.
Aloha, chaeronea…! It’s been awhile…! ;-)
I agree that we should be thankful for any obstacles that could possibly slow this impending trainwreck…! 8-(
Folks, all the sober voices in the Intel/MIC Apparatchik place the probability of an Iran strike at 50/50…! I’m much more cynical and think a ‘False Flag’ op (think USS Liberty) boosts the odds much higher…!
If congress is gonna be dysfunctional, this is one of those instances I’m glad they are. Rand Paul may not be a human being, but he IS a Senator, and he has done the right thing here. It can be argued that most or all of congress critters are not human — they are all wooden puppets. In these last few months, many have spoken about the overlap between libertarians and progressives. While much of the overlap is a smokescreen or red herring, warmongering might be the one real overlap. So it’s good to acknowledge that. It’s good that anyone in power acts against the unitary executive. That’s an argument that’s cogent to the antiwar movement. It doesn’t mean we have to get in bed with him.
Yeah, its impressive how much the people with brains who get paid to do the research have thrown up their hands and gone with the coin toss. How much do you know about the USS Enterprise’s latest mission? =(
I’d probably applaud the ghost of Reagan if he popped up to suggest we shouldn’t do this, and that’s saying quite a bit from my end.
Aloha to you as well, I’ll hopefully be on later tonight!
I agree with your sentiment, its important to realize that there are shades of gray in most things, and that when you’re having a real discussion you need to look at all sides. A libertarian should be able to get along with moderates and lefties to agree that there is a balance between sanctions, reality, and military force. The right/left combined warmongering is just another example of the polarity (or lack thereof) being abused to justify incompetence and lack of action.
This certainly puts the kibosh on his getting the VP nomination.
and if he is the lone voice of sanity, why the hell should we ally our selves with any of them at all!
When the stopped clock is the only one in a room of 100 clocks that has the correct time, it is fully worth calling attention to. Way too much attention paid to personality and party rather than policy in American political discourse.
How much do you know about the USS Enterprise’s latest mission? =(
It’s steaming it’s way to the Persian Gulf right now, I think it’s in the Med, on it’s final voyage, literally, since it will be retired when/if it gets home…! 8-(
That steam comes from its 8 nuclear reactors =P It has been suddenly shortened in lifespan, from probably decommission in 2014… Its had a 51 year history, and is still a potent weapon. I figured you did know this though, the question really is “if” it gets home. =/
We will have three carrier groups sitting in the Gulf, waiting. What’s even better is opening my eyes to “Millennium Challenge”, the 2002 wargame simulating attacking Iran. Good times. =/
I thought Rand Paul was a ‘racist?’
W.T.F?
I should add that the Enterprise Carrier Group’s impending arrival gives the Fifth Fleet 3 Carrier Groups…! A lot of ships to guard such a small little Straight…! *gah*
Eww.
You sound like one of those weird ‘conspiracy’ people.
Remember..Duh, Demoncrats are in charge?
Hello?
Straits…and narrow.
A’yep, The one where most of the Fifth Fleet was lying on the bottom of the Arabian Sea…! 8-(
And Van Riper relied solely on non-electronic lines of command and control, and, used antiquated missiles systems, that have since been significantly upgraded…! 8-(
Very well said, Kurt! I said before and I will continue to say – war trumps every other issue. Bravo, Rand Paul, and thank you, David.
You are correct. War is the scourge of the earth and particularly unhealthful to women and children, so I would align with the devil himself against war, and Rand Paul is not in that category. There are so few anti-war voices in the current Congress it’s pathetic in this Christian country.
20,000 dead too, with most of the fleet exploring the sea floor like you’ve stated =( He was one heck of a smart man, and I have no reason to doubt the Iranian coastal defense higher ups would be just as dedicated and ready. My guess is they might actually require the Enterprise there in order to do what they are planning. This is going to hurt.
o/t. I like how we stirred up the native!
*heh* But don’t ya fret… ‘US Navy capable of securing Strait of Hormuz’
“Don’t worry, we’ve got this handled”….
I just hope one of those carriers has got the Mission Accomplished banner safely locked away. Can’t have that floating around afterward.
What do you call three American carrier groups on the bottom of the sea?
A good start.
*heh* Wasn’t it the Enterprise that Cmdr Codpiece swaggered across the deck of…? Not sure…! ;-)
Aloha, Kurt…! Artificial reefs really do work, ya know…! ;-)
Why would any of us turn our back on RP when he is advocating exactly what we want our side to do? Do we simply say that since he wants to debate the rationality of attacking Iran, then we shouldn’t debate? Should we then simply go to war because RP may not want to?
On the question of including Syria, I think that is to take away the option of us going into Syria to try to stir Iran up to come to Syria’s aid and give us the excuse to attack Iran. harry reid probably doesn’t want to include Syria in order to retain that option.
IIRC, it was the Lincoln.
*heh* Ironically, it is indeed in the AO…! ;-)
Keep track of the CV’s here.
My HoPo response on this issue was censored.
I think Rand will overshadow his old man in the end.
Sorry about the censoring. I don’t get the backlash against free speech on lefty blogs. I got knocked off Foreign Policy a couple times — and in the process they removed all my comments on every one of their blogs present and past also. I’ll be polite regarding FDL.
What the fuck are we aiming for if it isn’t free speech?
And hope for Rand Paul, and anyone who is anti-war.
Randall Paul
Indeed. “Idiot”, “nutcase”, “jerk”. Yes. We liberals have much more civil, intelligent discussions than right wing ideologues do.
I have an old button, but I think it still applies:
“No Iran Until You Finish Your Iraq”
…and that includes military contractors out of Iraq.
So, if Rand Paul is against going to war with Iran because he wants to go to war with Iran and Syria and Pakistan and India and China and Russia all at the same time, should he be praised for being against going to war with Iran?