On the third and final day of the Supreme Court hearings on Obamacare, the Justices will hear arguments on two separate issues. One concerns severability. If one portion of the law is found unconstitutional, such as the mandate, does that require the Court to strike down related provisions, or even the entire law?
There’s is a presumption of severability, but if some provisions are so interdependent that striking down one makes the others unworkable, they can be struck down too. And in fact, that’s what the Court will hear today: whether the individual mandate can be removed from the law while the rest of the law stays intact. Given yesterday’s arguments, this is a question that could very well come into play.
Precedent suggests that the constitutionally valid parts of the law should stay in operation, with only the unconstitutional parts removed. The government will argue that three of the elements work in tandem – the individual mandate, the pre-existing condition exclusion, and community rating, which mandates that all consumers get charged at the same basic rate regardless of medical history (with a few exceptions: age, geographic location and tobacco use).
But this is only true in the context of a deal with the health insurance industry – you take all comers and charge them the same, and we mandate purchase. There’s no reason, actually, that insurers should get off the hook on pre-existing conditions if they lose the mandate. The government says the market would go out of control if everyone can just purchase health insurance right when they get sick. That’s may be true in theory, but in practice, there have been plenty of systems without a mandate that have actually functioned. And that’s especially true with the subsidies being offered at the low end of the scale. You may not need any contingency plans if the mandate falls.
Paul Starr, a health policy expert at Princeton University, agrees and points to the high enrollment rates for Medicare’s Part B and Part D plans, which cover doctors and prescription drugs; in contrast to Medicare’s hospitalization plan, they are optional.
“Seniors don’t have to sign up, but they do because it’s a good deal,” Starr said.
The plaintiffs actually agree on not just severing the mandate, but they want the whole law struck down. So there’s a third argument, with the Supreme Court bringing in an appointed lawyer, to just strike down the mandate and nothing else.
The second half of the day will concern the Medicaid expansion. And the arguments on this will have a major resonance for social policy going forward:
As part of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), Medicaid regulations change. Starting in 2014, all adults, regardless of whether they have children, will be eligible for Medicaid if they earn up to 133% of the federal poverty line. These changes are an enormous expansion of Medicaid, so much so that about half of the newly insured under the ACA will be getting their coverage through the program.
Of course, such a large expansion cannot be cheap. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will cost almost $800 billion over the next decade. To make this more palatable to states, the federal government will cover 100% of the expansion when it begins in 2014. That will slowly phase out, so that by 2020, the federal government will cover 90% of the expansion. While this will leave states paying for some of those who will newly be eligible for Medicaid, their share of the expansion will still be far less than the 25% to 50% that they must cover for Medicaid today [...]
Florida, along with 26 other states, is bringing a case to court based on the Constitution’s Spending Clause. Basically, the federal government has the right to make states accept certain conditions for which they will be given federal funds. If they don’t accept the conditions, then they don’t get the money. This is how Medicaid began, as an optional program states could agree to join. All of them did, obviously.
But now the law has changed, and those against the ACA’s new policy argue that this is an unfair expansion of a program that in practical terms is no longer optional. Medicaid is so fundamental to states’ operations now, they assert, that it can’t be considered funding that states can refuse if they choose not to agree to the new regulations. Because they will lose not only the new funding but all Medicaid funding if they don’t expand the programs, they say the actions of the federal government are coercive.
The federal government, of course, feels differently from Florida. It has argued that Congress has included new populations in Medicaid many times, and has at each time made Medicaid funding conditional on the acceptance of new regulations. They hold that the program is still voluntary. They argue that this use of the Spending Clause is constitutional and necessary for a functioning government. Moreover, they assert that should the Supreme Court intervene, it, not the elected representatives of Congress, will be responsible for determining how policy and revenues are set between the federal and state governments.
The actual argument made by the states here is that the government is giving them too good a deal to pass up. It’s a real shock – and an ominous sign – that this question even got cert at the Court. If the Court strikes down the Medicaid expansion, the federal government would be incredibly constrained even in programs that are state-federal partnerships.
[Note: original introduction revised to better reflect the severability issue.]





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If the lack of a mandate would send the individual insurance market into a “death spiral”, as some critics and the insurance industry suggest, why hasn’t that happened in Pennsylvania?
Here in PA, anyone can purchase an individual (or family) health insurance policy from Blue Cross / Blue Shield. The non-profit even offers some level of community rating, with slightly different rates in several geographic areas. While insurance is expensive, and out of reach for many modest wage earners (a plan covering 80% of health care costs up to an out of pocket max for the year is around $400/month for a 40 year old), the rates haven’t risen substantially faster than health insurance rates for individuals in other states without guaranteed issue.
I suppose if the mandate and, also or not, the Medicaid expansion is struck down the GOP will find ways to create more destructive chaos. In spite of that I really hope those parts or the whole thing will go. I have never favored the mandate ironically for the same reasons the right give and, more importantly, for the implied affirmation of the role of government being to develop all programs in a way that will provide profit to private business,
The ACA encompasses this new reality. Our nation is become of the corporation and for the corporation.
Any civil liberty or public welfare program — from roads and bridges to health care to the military — must first create profit for some business.
What a shocker! According to MSNBC the conservative justices are leaning toward repealing the entire ACA. The liberal justices want Congress to decide how to fix the law. The conservative justices are bemoaning the effect on the insurance industry. They don’t seem to have any sympathy for the public, but what else is new? The conservatives on this court have consistenly sided with big business over the average american.
When it comes to healthcare that might benefit the average american that’s an affront to the constitution. When it comes to insurance companies they can sympathize.
This afternoon they consider the expansion of Medicaid. How much you want to bet they come down on the side of state’s rights. In Bush v Gore they decided to trash state rights. I’m eager to hear how they spin this. I guess it will take 3 months to make up a legal justification for their trashing precedent and the constitution.
Lets say that the Court decides that Congress does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to enact the Mandate. Then we have:
1) The rest of the ACA is Constitutional under the Commerce Clause
2) The Mandate is necessary for the rest of the ACA
3) THUS, the mandate is constitutional under the Necessary and Proper Clause.
___
How do you argue both that the mandate is necessary to the rest of the constitutional law, so that it is not serverable, but that it doesn’t fall under the Necessary and Proper Clause?
In other words, I believe that if the Court wants to strike down the entire law, it will have to find that the mandate is necessary for the entire law, but that it violates some other principle (Substantive Due Process, Lochner-style?)besides just not falling under the Commerce Clause power.
The original bills going into conference had the standard legislative boilerplate, which included an explicit statement of severability. I would be very curious as to what happened to it. It has the same air that Phil Gramm’s deregulation of the financial industry through the “whooops a clerical error” legislative process did.
If logic prevailed, then I think you’re right. The conservatives on this court have proved over and over that first they come to a conclusion and they work backword to a legal justification. Logic be damned.
No matter how you read the constitution, it grants no power to the Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of a law. They took that for themselves. There is no provision that corporations are people. In fact the founding founders wanted nothing to do with corporations calling then creatures of state law. The founding fathers specifically argued against giving the Supreme Court the power to strike down laws. They argued that if a law was unconstiutional it would be struck down by congress.
Too much power for an apointee for life in a democracy.
It’s not that simple.
The Founders did not agree amongst themselves on everything, and it’s a little silly to say “the Founders wanted this, or the Founders wanted that”.
John Adams and James Madison (“Father of the Constitution”)were on different sides in Marbury and thy both abided by the holding and deferred tot he Supreme Court.
Face it, this socialist wet dream piece of legislation is finished.
The will of the people will be heard.
The entire law will be struck down, nothing will be salvaged, and fortunately, we will never have to worry about the government compelling private citizens to enter into contracts.
This has been a great week for freedom and liberty and the Constitution and a bad week for the AINO’s.
The financial kickbacks and perverted reconciliation process used to get this legislation passed will always be a stain on our Republic.
It just shows you that the will of the people is stronger than any one ideologue could eer pretend to be.
What a country! Only the 1% will be able to afford healthcare. The rest of us will just pay what we can when we get sick and end up dead and broke. Just as God intended. Only in America!
Lets correct something right now. These are not “justices”. These are political hacks who are imposing their own political agenda into this law. It is time to insist on term limits for these predators including cutting off their life time health care benefits.
Actually, I think you are right about one thing….just partially right. This is a great week for you Conservative Right Wing Freedom Loving Phonies who will probably live off of the taxpayers in the end of your life. However, I think down the road this is a bad week for you Right Wingers because now the people are going to feel the effect of all of this. Health Insurance is going to get unaffordable for all of us including you. You might be standing in line at the free clinics with the rest of us….or maybe you will just go to a hospital emergency room……they probably will not turn you away but will probably own your house in the end.
Is that not a better way to go than to have to live up to he indignity of facing a government established death panel.
So, I guess private for profit insurance company death panels are better than government nonprofit death panels? I’ll take the government death panels everytime.
No, you see I have a strong sense of personal responsibility, therefore, I have already made financial savings decisions which will more than provide a cushion against just the scenario you painted.
This country has much bigger issues facing it than healthcare.
If you want to make that analogy–however weak it may be–go ahead.
For sake of argument we’ll equate the two.
Under which one do you have more freedom?
One in which you can enter into contracts at will, or, one in which the state compels you to enter into a contract?
See, this is the difference, you are more than happy to give up freedom to benefit the collective.
I’m not, nor is a majority of the country, which is why Obamacare is so widely disliked.
Such a proposition is anti-American.
That what always bugs me we have Congressman and Justices with cadillac health care plans deciding that the rest of us don’t really need healthcare. I say throw them in the shark tank with the rest of us and see what happens. See how many Republicans vote for this “free” market approach.
You want to stop the endless wars? Establish a draft where the children and grandchildren of congressman, the President, Vice President are eligible and first in line. Then start with individual citizens with the highest income and work downward. I gurantee you we will only have to go to war when we have to.
The public doesn’t like Obamacare because it’s tied into the private insurance industry. That’s what people can’t stand. Talk about single payer or a public option and about 65% of the public supports it.
If you don’t think the private insurance industry doesn’t have death panels, you’re kidding yourself. They call it recesion. That is if you get sick They scour your medical history and if you forgot to mention that you once had a pimple on your as* treated, they claim fraud and terminate your policy. I don’t think the government is going to do that. Not to mention the numerous time they deny or delay life saving treatment just to save a few bucks. You dead is more profitable than them spending money on keeping you alive. Sounds like a death panel to me.
Of course this is the “free” market at work so it must be good.
Who are you planning to vote for in November, if you don’t mind my asking?
I used to consider myself an independent. The Republican party has gone so far right I can’t vote for any of them anymore. I think we should teaching science in the classroom. I think we should be making decisions based on science and not on faith. I belive in a women should have control of her own health decisions. I don’t get gay marriage, but I don’t think the government has the right to regulate it or anything else that occurs in a bedroom between consenting adults. I believe the “free” market needs a lot more regulation than is currently on the books. I like clean air and water.
For these reasons, I’m not voting Republican.
I mistakenly thought this was addressed to me. Sorry!
The Necessary and Proper Clause doesn’t let the government violate people’s Constitutional rights. Violating citizen’s rights may be necessary for some act, but that doesn’t make the act proper and hence the Bill of Rights can’t violated.
No Rs or Ds
No worries, I’m interested in everyone’s opinion.
I was simply asking because that person’s comments would indicate a conservative viewpoint, and it’s become increasingly obvious that Romney is going to be the Republican nominee.
There is documented proof that this law had its roots in, and carrier through most of, Romney’s health insurance plan. I just found it odd that this individual was hanging out here bashing the law when it comes from the current conservative darling.
I view Obama and Romney as more or less interchangeable. Actually I see Obama as more of a threat since when Republicans are in power the Democrats at least cry their crocodile tears – this has particularly become clear once Obama replaced Bush and Obama went even more extreme than Bush but the Democrats at best stayed silent and at worst actively cheered.
Cou, cou , cou welcome don’t hold back you all.
Romney has disavowed Romneycare and he wishes everyone would just forget all about the time he was Governor of MA.
I love these guys who ridicule the safety net. Right now you can rest assured those individuals have a job and healthcare. If that goes away they are first in line for unemployment and food stamps. Paul Ryan is a fan of Ayn Rand, the atheist, who decried the social safety net and thought the rich deserved to get everything. She went broke at the end of her life and relied on Medicaid and government assistance. Paul Ryan himself relied on Social Security Survivor’s benefits to help finance his college expenses. Clarence Thomas used affirmative action to get into college and law school and yet they want to deny these avenues to the unfortunate that come up after them.
I don’t know how these “Christians” get around the fact that Jesus was essentially a communist who spent his time preaching about social justice. You’d think Jesus spent all his time bashing gays and railing against birth control. Just ask Rick Santorum.
I saw a picture on facebook the other day, an oil painting of the Sermon on the Mount. Captions read, in this order
Jesus – Love your neighbor, as you would love yourself.
Person in crowd – but what if they’re gay! Or black!
Jesus – Did I fucking STUTTER?
The pictures depicting Jesus as of European white decent are a joke and are historically wrong. You’d think Gingrich would make us all aware of it. Afterall, he is an historian, or so he claims. Jesus was born and grew up in Africa and in the parlance of the redneck was a “sand nig*er”. I wonder how the Bible thumpers would react to that if they new the truth. Maybe, they just might have a little more respect for that Muslim half breed President that they hate.
I would never vote for Obama, and because of Romney’s stance on the mandate (state level), I will withhold my vote, if he is the nominee.
You sound like an idiot. Right now we have profit driven death panels. Insurance companies threw pools of sick people who paid their premiums off their rolls and left them to die because it hurt the insurance companies bottom lines. They then used their size in an attempt to stonewall state regulators. There has been testimony from insiders that have straight up stated that the insurance companies purposefully are in the business to DENY CARE CLAIMS and hope that people either a) die or b) pay for it themselves in frustration.
Out of the over 50% of the population that loses everything in bankruptcy 75% of those people HAD INSURANCE.
The system is broken and howling death panels doesn’t change that.
I live in Mass, and let me tell you, I do not like having to sign a piece of paper every year under penalty of perjury that states that, YES, I have healthcare.
Go talk to the people that are being fined for not having health insurance who they would vote for.
Romney is anbsolute fool on healthcare–his states rights argument goes like this.
Tyrrany at the Federal level will not be tolerated and I will repeal Obamacare, we must give the decision to take away freedom to the states!!!
Thank you. As I explained in my comment above @23, I was making a number of assumptions.
I’m glad you responded and cleared things up.
I’m on the same side as you, by the way, no matter what letter is on my voter registration. This law is tyranny, and I want it gone.
See, there’s common ground between the right and the left. We just need to find it and focus on it.
As for this –
I don’t believe the states should have that right or ability, either.
You are the idiot becuase you do not know the law.
You do not understand that pre-existing condition clauses are in effect at the employer level already and that it is just the personal market that is impacted and that this could be fixed quite easily.
You have not refuted one thing I said, but don’t let the facts get in the way of your rant and your warped utopian view of the world.
Here, in case you want to be educated about the pre-existing condition issue, I suggest you watch this 2 minute video and learn the law and the facts.
And I challenge you or anyone else to counte what is contained in this video.
I challenge you to step up and try, go ahead and give it your best shot.
I’m waiting.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/29/video-solving-pre-existing-conditions-doesnt-take-2700-pages/
I saw an example online the other day of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church.
It’s a more recent example of exactly what you’re talking about. There are actual photographs of Smith that show him as having olive-ish skin, brown eyes, brown hair, a thick dark stubble.
Then there are the commissioned paintings that hang in Mormon churches around the world that depict Smith as being blond-haired, blue-eyed, and fair-skinned.
It’s egregious.
Now there is an objective source, the Heritage Foundation. Stop listening to Rush Limabaugh and the other corporate lackeys.
BTW I know I didn’t mention the whole pre-existing nightmare and I don’t think the other poster did either. It makes no difference if you’re covered by your employer or in the individual market. If you’re covered by a for-profit insurance company, they will find a way to drop you if you get sick and become a liability. That’s just fact and I haven’t seen a Republican congressman try to do anything about it. They voted 100% against that when they voted against Obamacare.
I believe it was 2005 when the Republicans passed the bankruptcy and tort reform act which makes it a lot more difficult to file suit and recover against insurance companies. Of course, if you went bankrupt due to medical bills that the insurance companies wouldn’t pay the credit card companies didn’t want to get stuck with the bill. So the Republicans took them off the hook. An individual cannot have his credit card charges forgiven by a judge due to a bankruptcy from medical bills. So business owners could still walk away from a business bankruptcy but individuals are screwed. Sounds like a Republican “free” market solution to me.
I don’t care who the source is and you didn’t refute anything I have stated, and we are talking about the pre-existing condition issue specifically.
Again, it can be addressed without destroying the concept of enumerated powers.
But I’m done with you, since it is abundantly clear that the SCOTUS is going to reject Obamacare in toto, just as was predicted by anyone following this monstrosity from the get go.
I hope it was worth it–the kickbacks, and backroom dealings, the perversion of the reconciliation process and the fact that Democrats across the various races coming up will be booted from office.
These fools fell on their sword for a socialist utopian fantasy crap piece of legislation which, thankfully, and mercifully, is DOA.
There are other solution available to help the uninsured, ACA is not one of them.
Got Broccoli?
BTW if the Republicans could fix the pre-existing condition problem so easily, then why didn’t they do it when they were in charge of Congress. When Republicans are in charge there is no way in hell that they’d pass a bill that cost the insurance industry one thin dime. They’re always talking about Obama’s Muslim state of mind. The reality is the Republican party and all those who believe their BS are nothing more than a bunch of facists and I wish the Democrats would start refering to them as the facist party.
No, you’re talking about pre-existing conditions. Nobody else is. I guess you have no answer about the recision problem. Does the Heritage have another “free” market solution for that.
You really don’t think for yourself do you? It just whatever Rush and the Republican spin machine have to say.
BTW whether Obamacare gets thrown out or not does not solve the healthcare problem and the spiraling out of control costs. The Republican proposal, which is to fix the government liability and let the “free” market to do its work, is going to result in a disaster and will result in some form of single payer healthcare which is what progressives want anyway.
Obamacare is monstrosity. It was an attemp to retain an inefficient health insurance system. The Republicans will wish they left Obamacare alone. The current health care system is going to collapse under its own weight and what comes out will be a lot less palatable to the insurance industry, since they will only be a very small part of health insurance business. They are going to be providing coverage for things like private rooms. Much like they currently have in Europe.
That’s rich, and I’m sure your mock-rage is similarly directed toward Obama.
To be clear, do you mean the kind of fascism whereby Immelt’s GE pays no taxes, and taxpayer money is provided to bankrupt green tech companies in a quid pro quo for Obama campaign dollars.
Or do we need to talk about Valeri Jarret’s public housing scam in Chicago?
That kind of fascism, or do I need to provide more examples for you?
The fact is that you are so blinded by your partisan ideology, and your unwavering support for anyone other than a Republican, that you can’t see blatant fascist manuevers by the very side you are purporting to defend–either that, or, you are willfully being deceptive.
And by the way, I’m not a Republican.
I’ve always thought of myself as an independent. That is until the Republican party went batsh*t. I actually voted for the chimp’s father against Bill Clinton. He raised taxes and cleaned up the Reagan banking mess. He got out of Iraq and didn’t try to nation build. A moderate Republican, which is now extinct in the Republican party.
Facism is the melding of business and government. Both parties are guilty of it, but the Republicans have rasied it to an art. If I had to come up with a term for Republican ideology it would be TheoFacism. Which is the melding of business and religion with government. Our founding fathers would be turning in their graves if they knew what the Republican party is trying to do. They claim they are defending the Constitution when they are undermining it. Republicans want you to think they are defending freedom, but what really want to do is to regulate what goes on the bedroom. They want to substitute theology for science. They want to control what a women does with her body. They only thing they want to deregulate is anything effecting big business. This doesn’t sound like freedom or rational thought to me.
You know the Republican party was actually progessive when it was founded. The Democratic party was the conservative party. In the 1870′s the Republican Party was taken over by the robber barons and has primarily been the party of the wealthy and business until recently. If you looked at the electoral map in 1860, it looked very similar to the map in 2008 except that the parties reversed positions. The Democratic party became a true progressive party in 1965 with the passage of Civil Rights Act. The “Dixiecrat” wing of the Democratic party bolted to the Republican party which welcomed them with open arms. Richard Nixon’s “southern strategy” was born and so was born the modern Republican party. Through all of this the Republican party has been the party of the wealthy. It just in the last few years that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
Again, you will find no argument from me on that, I just find it highly amusing when someone comes out against a Democratic proposal, they are automatically labeled as a Republican.
The people who make these accusations are quite literally the useful idiots we now that are necessary for fascists governments to exist–on both sides.
This is where you are dead wrong. I have a conservative friend with tons of money who felt the way you do until an annuorism (sp) was discovered and he had surgery. He realized that if he had a stroke and was layed up, no amount of money he had saved would have covered his costs and he would have been wiped out. He sure likes the sound of National Health Care now.
what rights would the mandate violate?
the issue is whether it’s in congress’ power, not whether it violates some other rights under the constitution.
I like your platform here.
You’d have my vote!
I take it you weren’t here when Obama sold out the real public or “socialist” solutions for this corporatist *CONSERVATIVE* plan conceived by the Heritage Foundation and written by a Wellpoint VP?
-stewartm
Which just means you have no idea what “socialism”, let alone “fascism” is.
(Here’s a hint: the real, historical, fascists were allies with conservatives, and were helped along the way by big corporate money. Gee, I wonder why political faction today in the US that describes?)
-stewartm
What I want to do is exempt the Justices and Congressmen from all government health care and give them a voucher that increases with general inflation. They can buy health insurance on the “free” market. Afterall, what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. Let them struggle with pre-existing conditions and what the insurance companies will charge for the old fogies on the Court. No running over to Bethsada Naval Hospital or Walter Reed either. Let them get a taste of what they want the rest of us to put up with.
How long do you think it will take before we get single payer?