A federal appeals court judge on the Fifth Circuit pretty much freaked out yesterday during a trial with a member of the Justice Department, pouncing on President Obama’s comments about the Supreme Court’s health care case and badgering counsel on whether judicial review exists:
In the escalating battle between the administration and the judiciary, a federal appeals court apparently is calling the president’s bluff — ordering the Justice Department to answer by Thursday whether the Obama Administration believes that the courts have the right to strike down a federal law, according to a lawyer who was in the courtroom [...]
Overturning a law of course would not be unprecedented — since the Supreme Court since 1803 has asserted the power to strike down laws it interprets as unconstitutional. The three-judge appellate court appears to be asking the administration to admit that basic premise — despite the president’s remarks that implied the contrary. The panel ordered the Justice Department to submit a three-page, single-spaced letter by noon Thursday addressing whether the Executive Branch believes courts have such power, the lawyer said.
This was related to comments the President made on Monday in the Rose Garden, which conservatives criticized as a threat. At a Q&A session with newspaper editors yesterday, President Obama clarified those comments, saying that he was merely describing cases involving the Commerce Clause:
OBAMA: Well, first of all, let me be very specific.
We have not seen a court overturn a law that was passed by Congress on an economic issue like health care, that I think most people would clearly consider commerce. A law like that has not been overturned, at least since Lochner. Right? So we’re going to back to the ‘30s, pre-New Deal. And the point I was making is that the Supreme Court is the final say on our Constitution and our laws, and all of us have to respect it. But it’s precisely because of that extraordinary power that the court has traditionally exercised significant restraint and deference to our duly-elected legislature, our Congress. And so the burden is on those who would overturn a law like this.
Now, as I said, I expect — I expect the Supreme Court actually to — to recognize that and to abide by well-established precedents out there. I have enormous confidence that, in looking at this law, not only is it constitutional, but that the court is going to exercise its jurisprudence carefully because of the profound power that our Supreme Court has.
How disrespectful!
The Fifth Circuit has a reputation for being particularly ideologically conservative, but this travels past even those boundaries. According to a transcript of the remarks, Judge Jerry Smith, a Reagan appointee, put the question to the DoJ lawyer of whether federal courts can strike down federal statutes, to which the lawyer replied “Yes, your honor.” And this wasn’t enough for Judge Smith, who then referred to Obama’s remarks on Monday (without the knowledge of the elaboration on Tuesday. Then:
Smith: That has troubled a number of people who have read it as somehow a challenge to the federal courts or to their authority or to the appropriateness of the concept of judicial review. And that’s not a small matter. So I want to be sure that you’re telling us that the attorney general and the Department of Justice do recognize the authority of the federal courts through unelected judges to strike acts of Congress or portions thereof in appropriate cases.
Kaersvang: Marbury v. Madison is the law, your honor, but it would not make sense in this circumstance to strike down this statute, because there’s no –
Smith: I would like to have from you by noon on Thursday…a letter stating what is the position of the attorney general and the Department of Justice, in regard to the recent statements by the president, stating specifically and in detail in reference to those statements what the authority is of the federal courts in this regard in terms of judicial review. That letter needs to be at least three pages single spaced, no less, and it needs to be specific. It needs to make specific reference to the president’s statements and again to the position of the attorney general and the Department of Justice.
So you have a federal judge assigning homework to the Justice Department on the concept of judicial review, designed to embarrass the President. These Federalist Society types are really feeling their oats, ay?
I’ve said repeatedly that the Constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act matters less to me than the behavior of the Supreme Court in the case, moving from judges to nakedly ideological politicians, determining policy based on precious little knowledge of the law in question. This maneuver takes it up a notch ideologically as well.
UPDATE: A reader writes in:
Unless the President’s remarks were on the record before the judge (placed in the record by one of the parties as for example in a filing with the court or somehow uttered during oral argument) the judge arguably has no business considering them while deciding the case. Given that this is an appellate case and the remarks by the President were within the last few days and the appellate record had to be finished weeks (and more probably months) before the oral argument at which Judge Smith asked for the letter, it is difficult to understand how the President’s remarks could have been part of the appellate record which (along with remarks at oral argument) is all the judge is supposed to consider. If the President’s remarks were not part of the appellate record, Judge Smith has just taken judicial action based upon an extrajudicial statement (one not made on the record with proper judicial notice to both parties (appearing in the morning newspaper or on television is not proper judicial notice)). In general, this is not allowed. The communication to which Judge Smith referred was an ex parte communication (a communication not made in the presence of (or with appropriate judicial notice to) at least one party. Here the ex parte communication appears to have been made outside the presence of all of the parties.
See, for example, Canon 2(a) and Canon 3(a)(4) of the Code of Conduct for United States Judges (http://www.uscourts.gov/RulesAndPolicies/CodesOfConduct/CodeConductUnitedStatesJudges.aspx). Canon 2(a) requires compliance with the law and the judge’s consideration of an ex parte communication not part of the record is arguably not in compliance with the law. Canon 3(a)(4) bars consideration by a judge of ex part communications. Here, Judge Smith considered an improper (that is improper in the judicial sense, there was nothing improper about the President saying whatever he wanted to say outside of court) ex parte communication.




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“President Obama clarified those comments, saying that he was merely describing cases involving the Commerce Clause: …”
Hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahah
Yea Right … you are soo blind to reality you can’t even listen to someone speak and understand what they mean.
Translation: Ideologically liberal judges good, conservative judges bad.
Another variation of IOKIYAD.
Nobody has certain knowledge of the law, which is enough to strike down the whole thing. Not the writers, not the lawyers, not the legislators, not the President, not the people affected by the law. Nobody.
DDay, the spectacle before us is amazing in the extreme. We now have a federal judiciary which has, by ignoring due process, granted this President, this “Constitutional Scholar”, both the absolute “power” to kill anyone, any where, and anytime at his, essentially, sole whim, and happily bent over backwards to accept ANY claim of “national security” as sufficient to end ANY inquiry about government behaviors, including torture, and to withhold from “the people” vital and necessary information about actions contemplated and pursued, vigorously and very violently, IN name of “the people”, to such an extent as to leave the judiciary flat on its back upholding the most obvious of patent nonsense.
Perhaps, the judicial “branch”, though “unelected”, is feeling the need to join in the lucrative and dumbfounding kabuki of the political class, of which they, the judiciary, as well as the media, the Congress, and the President are and have always been part.
The judicial “branch” is, apparently, feeling left out and in gravest want of juvenile expression, and possibly infantile tantrums, if their needs for attention and adulation are not immediately and lavishly met.
When no effective Rule of Law exist when, in fact, a derision of the very notion of such a thing holds sway throughout the political class, with the Constitution regarded merely a “piece of paper” … we may well soon not have bread enough, but of circuses we shall have plenty.
One only hopes the people are paying actual attention, although in the words of Helen Keller, “People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.”
Frankly, I find that I have no sympathy at all for ANY member of the political class, and consider that all of them deserve something very different indeed. ” … when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce” (the people) “under absolute despotism …” You may possibly recognize those words from another “quaint” and forgotten “piece of paper”?
I do hope that the people may be doing some “homework” of their own … on their own.
For certainly, there are, and must be, some lessons to be taken from what transpires, so pathetically and outrageously, before us?
Perhaps?
DW
If this judge feels so disrespected, one can only imagine how the conservative part of the Supreme Court feels. I dont think this bodes well at all.
Funny how partisan-conservative activist Judges jump all over Barry Zero for his statements re ACA, but when Pres Obama declared Pfc Bradley Manning *guilty* before Manning was even charged with anything, all we got from ANY judge was crickets.
Sadly, yes, the third branch of the govt – the judiciary – left the non-partisan, empirical logic, stare decisis train station a looooong time ago. Yet another act in the Kabuki Show, more’s the pity. Bunch of boooo-shit.
On Edit: ALSO a waste of my tax dollars to tie up the DOJ with this kind of crap… but then again, since the DOJ seems DOA, I guess putting them to work doing *anything* is probably better than the *nothing* that they’re doing now. ptoui!
Well, according to the strip search case, the courts cannot second guess the police. So certainly they cannot second gu4ess the President.
The appeaols court should be so briefed – on a roll of toilet paper Then the judge should be lead off with handcuffs and strip searched.
quick scotus question;
has sotomayer moved the court to the left or to the right?
Uh, we’ve reached the end of history?
It’s about time he was brought down a notch, and I don’t care if it was a conservative court that did it or not. To whom is Obama beholden? Certainly not the people with his self-appointed power to assassinate at whim. Certainly not the Congress, with his self-appointed power to declare war. I don’t see liberal justices registering alarm at his usurpation of power.
I’m glad someone finally brought him to task, and I hope more and more justices join the bandwagon. The man should be impeached.
I suggest we don’t refer to them as “conservative” justices when “Republican” is more appropriate. Radical ones.
I am pretty confident that Sotomayor can be labeled as liberal, however, Kagan is another story.
No.
The “jig” is merely up, Ludwig. The “harmonious” music has all but stopped … checked and unbalanced.
Like the wily coyote … we have merely run straight off the cliff.
Perhaps, so long as we do not look down (or around), no one will notice the gravity of our “situation”?
The astute Compradors of the law have merely begun to hawk their cheapest wares … (regarding the Emperor’s new wardrobe, the under “wheres” have simply run out of magic and “withal means” …)
;~DW
The Judge is way out of line. Not surprising for the Fifth Circuit which is, indeed, one of the more extremist courts in the country (of course, at this point, almost the entire federal judiciary is hard-core Conservative). I think the DOJ should tell Judge Smith to take a hike and do his job.
Ah (and eqad!), such images as you do so wonderfully conjure up, wbgonne, alas …
Either a bunch of hunched-up DoJ underlingers are single-spacing at a hundred keyboards … or they are being asked to draw … straws …
Whoever trudges along to deliver the message, yours or Judge Jerry’s, would be well-advised to carry along a sternly worded letter from some astute Congressional notable, as that august gathering of the will and wit of the public doth also have a wee piddle in this pot …
How many “branches” might it take to stir a towering tempest?
A response is mandated. And respect demanded.
(Now, who started this most unseemly squabble, in the first place? …)
;~DW
This court stopped being a court of judicial precedence the day they ruled 5-4 to stop the vote count in Florida. The Scalia Court doesn’t interpret law it makes law.
Sotomayor hasn’t moved the Court at all. She is a neoliberal who was a prosecutor and a business lawyer before she became a judge. Kagan is the same, though she comes from academia and government. In order to move the Court, Obama would have had to appoint Progressives judges, which, of course, he has no interest in doing (even if they might somehow get confirmed). The Supreme Court today is at least as Conservative today as it was when Obama took office. Yet another squandered opportunity for Obama.
Yeah, the whole thing is decidedly unseemly. Obama shouldn’t have opened his trap and started playing mind games with SCOTUS and Judge Smith of Big Oil’s Court of Appeals must have had too much coffee that day. They deserve each other but we deserve neither of them.
No. The vote to stop the vote count was 7-2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore#Equal_Protection_Clause_2
Nothing ‘conservative’ here, 100% right-wing authoritarian.
Nobody knows what judges wear under their respective robes, do they? Like a talking head, we only see half the person, and we speculate or imagine what the rest is. What is that robe and bench hiding. In this case it appears the judge was looking for some political attention, period. Marbury v. Madison is taught in Poly Sigh 101 and lecturing someone appearing before the Appeals Ct. about it seems odd. Smith needed a hug from the radical right and maybe some future consideration for an appointment. Never to early to put out your bonafides and to send a message to all your compatriots that we’ll show that ” so and so “. But the ACA is so not up to the task in solving our healthcare problems your wonder what the stink is all about. Which makes the old saw about the more trivial the disagreement the bigger the argument.
As far as I know, though I may be mistaken, there are only two entities that enjoy an exemption from anti-monopoly legislation. These would be Major League baseball and the Insurance Industry. If true, what is the logic behind granting this exemption to the Insurance Industry?
Obama is a neoliberal/neocon. To expect him to appoint anyone to any position who wasn’t a corporate tool is a waste of time. Obama doesn’t squander opportunities, he capitalizes on them to create the outcomes that satisfy his puppeteers and serve to enrich him.
It’s completely irrelevant anyway what Obama, the DoJ, or anyone but judges, thinks about judicial review. It’s a legal doctrine. It’s validity depends on the words and actions of nobody but judges deciding cases.
Somebody quiz Smith on where he stands with stare decisis. His view of that actually is both relevant and in doubt.
You point about the equal protection ruling seems a little tenuous. Since counting never resumed after the granting of a stay by the SCOTUS on 12/09/00, which stay was a 5/4 vote by the usual suspects, and since the final decision to stop counting was again 5/4, it would seem that Bobbylon’s simple statement “…stop the vote count…” is actually correct.