Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein sat for an interview at the American Society of News Editors yesterday, and they were asked about how a Watergate-type scandal would play out in the Internet age. They mocked a set of papers from a Yale journalism class, which they claimed said that the Watergate scandal would pop up on the Internet, and that Nixon would have had to resign much more quickly. Anyway, here’s their response:
“That somehow the Internet was a magic lantern that lit up all events,” Woodward said. “And they went on to say the political environment would be so different that Nixon wouldn’t be believed, and bloggers and tweeters would be in a lather and Nixon would resign in a week or two weeks after Watergate.” [...]
“I have attempted to apply some corrective information to them,” Woodward continued, “but the basic point is: The truth of what goes on is not on the Internet. [The Internet] can supplement. It can help advance. But the truth resides with people. Human sources.” [...]
“We had a readership that was much more open to real fact than today,” Bernstein said. “Today there’s a huge audience, partly whipped into shape by the 24-hour cycle, that is looking for information to confirm their already-held political-cultural-religious beliefs/ideologies, and that is the cauldron into which all information is put. . . . I have no doubt there are dozens of great reporters out there today — and news organizations — that could do this story. What I don’t think is that it would withstand this cultural reception. It might get ground up in the process.”
Let’s set aside the distinction that Woodward makes between “the Internet” and “human sources,” as if websites are written by robot automatons getting their information from digital printouts cooked up by a computer program. I would have to burst Woodward’s bubble by mentioning that I actually do talk to “humans” now and again, as does any reporter working online or offline. And normally that process does not involve inventing conversations in subsequent novelistic hagiographies.
But I question this idea that we have to wonder what would happen if a Watergate-type scandal broke out today, and how it would be covered. Because we’ve already had one. We’re still having one. The foreclosure fraud scandal, years in the making and the telling, chronicles the largest consumer fraud in American history. You’re talking about millions of homes illegally seized, tens of millions of properties with confused or unclear ownership, a total corruption of the land title system that has served America for over three hundred years. Maybe this doesn’t rise to the level of bringing down a President, but it’s not a miniscule, irrelevant issue.
And we know exactly how that coverage went. It flared up on the Internet, first with smaller sites and the financial blogosphere, then with an entirely new set of sites dedicated to the enterprise. It occurred with the same drip-drip-drip of stories as we saw in Watergate, with little details getting filled in along the way. It went from back-page news right to the front when depositions caught banks robo-signing documents and fabricating others. It led to a near-total moratorium on foreclosures in the country near the end of 2010.
That’s where the similarities end. The story never reached a critical mass outside of the large and growing community of homeowners affected by it. The public at large never got much of a chance to understand the issue, confined to the business press and some online outlets. That’s because the traditional media, precisely what Woodward and Bernstein glory in here, just decided they weren’t interested in the largest consumer fraud in American history. You didn’t see a drumbeat of stories. You didn’t even see follow-up when Congress held hearings and state Attorneys General decided to open an investigation. And this gave those same forces the breathing room to diffuse the situation with a slap-on-the-wrist settlement and a series of other steps designed to limit the damage to the financial institutions and the mortgage market.
In other words, the reason that big, complex scandals cannot flourish in America and bring with it justice has nothing to do with “the Internet,” the only segment of the media-scape actually paying attention to such matters. It’s because we don’t have a media willing to challenge power anymore.
To be fair, Woodward and Bernstein listed some other problems, including cash-strapped budgets for media outlets, and the timidity of Congress to act decisively. Those are true in part, although the foreclosure fraud cottage industry on the Web has a collective annual budget below most dinner specials at medium-priced restaurants. But they ignore the real problem, that the traditional media has shifted over a 40-year period from adversaries to gatekeepers, from barbarians at the gates to members of an insular club. And so they get to decide the scandals and how far they will push them. It’s a testament to the desire for human understanding that, despite this gate, the foreclosure fraud story has pushed so far. But ultimately, the Woodwards and Bernsteins of the modern day, along with their editors, slammed the door shut.
Rather than blaming the Internet, these two would do well to blame themselves.
UPDATE: Let me just add that Bernstein’s point about epistemic closure and people who create their own reality is valid as far as it goes. I also find this a convenient out to not pursue stories where the facts are actually quite clear, however.




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So true. Deserves to be said and read again and again and again.
I can’t even find good local coverage in Austin, TX any longer. This city has about 1 1/2 million people in a tri-county area, and we’re served by no less than 4 TV channels claiming news authority and a daily paper. Yet, our local coverage is down to glorified crime blotter regurgitations, weather, and sports. Sorry if this sounds sexist, but all the morning newscasters are either women or very young looking men. The Anchorman/Anchorwoman is long-gone.
The problem is that all the news outlets have been bought-up by a small handful of corporations and streamlined. Reporters are getting fired, not hired. It’s a tragedy and, IMHO, the Internet cannot possibly fill the gap.
I used to be a capitalist. Now I’m afraid of them. President Obama has a mess on his hands. Beyond the economy, wars, and corruption, we have a basic failure in public infrastructure. I don’t see how we get back to a country that sees public media as a common good like public roads. This story about Woodward and Bernstein is so discouraging.
Woodward’s remarks are disappointing and poignant. He sounds as out of touch as Ted Stevens. I can appreciate his anxiety over the state of journalism as he knows it. But I don’t know why he wouldn’t acknowledge Paul Kiel, Marcy Wheeler and David, among others, unless he just doesn’t *know* about you. The internet is vast and diffuse. He doesn’t know where to look.
Also, the influence of SEO is vaguely unsettling. Maybe he got stuck looking at a website that purported to be news, but was actually part of the horrid SEO underbelly. If you don’t have the right lens to “read” something like that and know to disregard it, it just seems vaguely wrong, and could amplify a person’s preconceived wish to take the thing that comes after you a little bit, wave your cane and proclaim that it’s all crap.
BRAVO!
If I may turn things around…..”If it doesn’t bleeed, it doesn’t lead.”
They’re_rich_establishment_players_and_have_been_for_some_time___
_
Is_anyone_at_all_surprised_that_they’re_pimping_the_status_quo
_and_trying_to_shut_the_door_to_success_behind_them___
_
I’m_not
Woodward has become nothing but a flack and a hack. Some elders retain their integrity and vigor well into their later years. Woodward, not so much.
Bernstein? Haven’t followed him. What’s his latest scoop?
Not the “people” you talk to, Bob.
Woodward and Bernstein are aging hacks, bitter that their time in the sun has come to a close. They’ve been living off their rep for nearly forty years now.
Time to get out of the way, and let someone else shine.
He regularly blubbers on Morning Joke and makes an ass of himself.
I don’t disagree hugely with what they wrote, and I don’t know that I believe that the internet would have forced Nixon to resign within 2 weeks of Watergate.
For example, every single on of the weapons-of-mass-destruction lies were broadcast far and wide on the internet during the Bush years, and Iraq was still invaded. Likewise, the housing bubble was all over the internet before it collapsed, yet the policies of the day did not change to prevent the housing bubble from collapsing. And today, all of the lies and dissembling of Republican presidential candidates on economic policies – such as the lies of Paul Ryan and others – are dissected in exquisite detail on the internet, even showing up at the New York Times on Krugman’s blog and articles. But the Ryan plan is still being forwarded in the House with no damage to Republicans, and 50% +/- of the population will vote Republican in the elections this year.
” … Let’s set aside the distinction that Woodward makes between “the Internet” and “human sources,” as if websites are written by robot automatons getting their information from digital printouts cooked up by a computer program. I would have to burst Woodward’s bubble by mentioning that I actually do talk to “humans” now and again, as does any reporter working online or offline. And normally that process does not involve inventing conversations in subsequent novelistic hagiographies …”
I sincerely doubt that Deep Throat would write a blog today. The assistant director of the FBI (Deep Throat) is not going to start a blog leak. This is the difference between “human sources” and “the internet”, the “human sources” being high-level insiders who can’t go public themselves, but need reporters and journalists to talk to.
More: Bill Moyers was born in mid-1934 (Woodward in 1943) …. Moyers advocated for NetNeutrality and continues to contribute truth and information. What of value has Woodward contributed in the past 25 years, aside from flacking for Shrub, for example.
What we know of one of this pair is the he will pull punches in order to ensure access to his sources. That goes beyond simple gatekeeping.
What Woodward refuses to acknowledge or consider is that obfuscation *also* resides with the people. And how. Especially the people in charge of today’s “newz” cycle.
Yeppers. All of the above. W&B aging hacks. Corp media sold out.
If it weren’t for the internet, we’d never know anything.
I don’t suppose they were asked about Julian Assange. He’s supposed to be a disappeared person from the POV of the PTB. Woodward (anybody know the medical diagnosis of his speech impediment, BTW; I’ve wondered for years) would probably have smoke coming out his ears, since that “leak” puts Deep Throat not just in the Minor League, but in the Little League.
Were it the case that the mortgage fraud situation was the only scandal that has occurred lately. You know torture, extreme rendition, lying to go to war, electronic evesdropping, assasination of American citizens, indefinite detention . . . hell, I can’t name them all. But, these are crimes that happened in the past and therefore cannot be prosecuted. Only crimes the president or congress think might happen are prosecutable now, especially those elements that would weaken America, like maybe OWS.
Gotta admit, they had a tough act to follow.
Perhaps they peaked too soon.
Yes, Bob Woodward and Susan Collins shared the same elocution tutor (or Nanny, who dropped them both on they heads as infants).
I think the point is that we know all that largely because of the Internet and never would have found out any of it if we had relied on the likes of Woodward.
You can’t blame the Internet for politicians continuing to ignore the truth that the Internet reveals. All the Internet can really do is up the cost of doing so. And it has.
IMHO
Excellent putting 1+1 together. I’ve wondered about Collins too but never made the connection.
Man….wouldn’t it be fascinating if Woodward & Bernstein did an article on…Woodward & Bernstein????
That’s too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence.”
Yog Berra
Dya think?
According to the toobz, it’s called spasmodic dysphonia.
heh… my question, as well. First one that popped into my mind.
Daniel Ellsberg has spoken out about Assange, but more importantly about the unfair (to say the least) imprisonment of Pfc Bradley Manning. I believe that Ellsberg may have also been temp jailed for protesting.
I often wondered about Woodward & Bernstein through all of that. Although the PTB have done their damndest to keep both Assange & Manning out of the “nooz,” surely Woodward & Bernstein know about this??? And if they don’t, well….
Two hacks as far as I’m concerned. Past their useful sell-by date, albeit the post’s contents are of interest. Woodward, esp, really loves leading the “good life” and rubbing shoulders with other members of the 1%, so that’s where his bread is buttered. No doubt it’s similar for Bernstein.
I surely cannot see either one of them having the cojones to challenge the status quo these days… they ARE the status quo. sucks.
Bought off & sold out a loooong loooong time ago…
You seem pretty damn informed on this topic.
Do you know why Barbara Walters talke like that???
Somebody told me she was giving he boyfriend a BJ in the car when he ran into a telephone pole.
They sure got a lotta mileage out of “Deep Throat”.
Quite an informant….helluva a movie.
firstly, woodward was a spook[may still be one]. he is the “legend” that took nsa intercepts into the wapo’s newsroom. and of course, there are many questions about ben bradlees’ tie to the intell services[especially the cia]. and the wapo under donny and bo has been proving to be just another stenographer for the state. so, i think it would be fair to say that the watergate tale for which woodstein take credit for was handed to them by agents of the secret state, and printed by the wapo because it too is an agent of the secret state.
major stories over the years that were exquisitely spiked by the wapo were the entirety of the bcci, matrix-churchill, banco lavora nacional stories, the truehandenstalt stories.
today’s problem is that too many of the populace continue to rely on the mainstream agitprop entities and the der sturmer entities such as faux news and the radio mafia, hannity and limbo, for their information.
oh, and that the amerikan populace is by and large a bloodthirsty, ignorant lot.
I’ve heard that, too. Who knows.
Whaddaya hear about Obama? Anything similar?
PS Agree totally with the last couple of paragraphs/sentences. quite.
Larry Flynt brought Woodward out as a Mockingbird asset, the CIA program to infiltrate the media. Check it out, its on the public record, couple of years ago IIRC.
There’s this thing called teh google.
Walters is just a lisp.
Here’s a list.
‘kay… whadda know about Obama? (not joking)
“. . .what would happen if a Watergate-type scandal broke out today, and how it would be covered. Because we’ve already had one. We’re still having one.. .”
—————-
It gives me a headache. People who got caught doing the Watergate were the reckless ones. Similar people are still around today, and my hunch is now they’re more cautious with their family jewels.
A better question might be about what’s going on that we haven’t heard about yet.
It’s not just the internet and bloggers who “chew up” the news of daily events. The WSJ editorial page,FOX news, the Washington Times, Krauthammer, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, Beck, Malkin, etc. are just as capable of doing so and they are radio hosts and columnists. The internet is more of a reaction to the blandness of MSM than it is a cause of MSM decline. Before newspapers were corporate, profit worshipping whores, they were serious overseers of government and corporate misdeeds. Now, since they are corporate, they have become mostly capitalism’s best defenders. Without the internet today, there would be even less unlawful conduct exposed.
Local news is a bust for investigative journalism. Look outside, walk outside, how’s the weather, duh. They never have to be accurate and now it’s raining and snowing in the hard news side of the studio and nobody knows the difference, suspects or checks to see if there’s a hole in the roof. Sports, aside from NYT or ESPN mag, etc is just some guy telling you what you’re now seeing is what happened 2 hours ago when you were streaming in real time, duh. There’s some great issues on race, financial, tax shenanigans, etc people should hear there. The pace of digesting and reporting on all the political/economic issues can’t keep up with the professional criminal class. It can only report the carnage when the bodies have floated to the top, mostly. We are moving at a pace the WoodSteins never dealt with in 1974. The Public Relations Society won the advertorial news contest. It was not even close. Too bad for us.
Can’t they control the message anymore?
“At a minimum, Woodward’s entry into journalism received a valuable outside assist, according to an account provided by Harry Rosenfeld, a retired Washington Post editor, to the Saratogian newspaper in 2004: ‘Bob had come to us on very high recommendations from someone in the White House. He had been an intelligence officer in the Navy and had served in the Pentagon. He had not been exposed to any [major] newspaper.’” –from Russ Baker @
http://larryflynt.com/2011/10/
Haven’t really gotten into this, but I know that nothing is as it seems, and who really trusts Mainstream Propaganda at this late stage in the game?