My colleague David Dayen, perhaps more optimistic than I, is hopeful that Senator Chuck Schumer’s proposal (with Senator Casey) to impose a tax penalty of 30 percent on those who renounce US citizenship to avoid US taxes will have useful spillover effects. I hope he’s right.
I suspect Chuck Schumer is pulling a fast one on us. After all, it doesn’t make sense to be upset that some selfish rich kid who came from another country would feel no particular loyalty to America, while we look the other way as millions of wealthy Americans and US-based corporations do everything they can to shield their income and evade US taxes while still enjoying all the benefits of US citizenship.
So here’s my suggestion, Chuck. The biggest, most egregious tax evaders in the US are not those who openly renounce their citizenship to evade taxes but rather the millions of self-described patriotic souls who are happy to wrap themselves in the flag while they pay only 15 percent on capital gains and effective rates on ordinary income far lower than the marginal 35% (or 39% if the Bush/Obama cuts expire) that are supposed to apply.
Let’s tax capital gains and Mitt Romney’s looting fees hedge fund profits as ordinary income. Let’s raise the marginal tax rates on wealthy individuals to levels that existed when we used to have prosperity. Raise them to levels that would be economically justified — say up to 60 to 80 percent marginal rates, since research shows it won’t adversely affect their incentives much — because that’s in the national/economic interest. And then raise corporate tax rates on nominally US corporations that shield profits here and oversees while demanding tax holidays every decade or so to bring their untaxed profits back “home.”
We’ll then find out how patriotic these folks are . . . and whether Chuck Schumer is sincere or just a shill trying to distract from what he and his colleagues have been fronting for decades.




92 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL News Desk
Slave-owners where not patriotic. They where myopic in protecting a business model. Its about time we recognize these folks are no different. Surely not overt ownership of human beings, just more sophisticated when effing people.
“…while we look the other way as millions of wealthy Americans and US-based corporations do everything they can to shield their income and evade US taxes while still enjoying all the benefits of US citizenship.”
Those million of wealthy Americans and US based corporations seem to have benefited greatly since the time when scores of American’s died on the beaches of France? Maybe the assholes would have been better of speaking German?
You’re kidding, right? All Schuck Chuck?
Things are bad when Chuck has to talk about taxing Capital Gains thats a good sign that the pressure is getting to him and he needs to create a distraction.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/accidentally-released-and-incredibly-embarrassing-documents-show-how-goldman-et-al-engaged-in-naked-short-selling-20120515#ixzz1v2Nk9aMC
My bold my guess is when this story gets some attention Chuck and the banks will be fighting serious calls for more bank regulation so Chuck needs something to distract people.
This sounds to me like text book fraud each case of selling a short stock you don’t own is a separate fraud charge my guess is Goldman is looking at thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of cases of fraud.
By inventing more stock Goldman and the others lessened demand for stocks and lowered companies that had stocks value I am quite sure these companies will be pissed.
This could drive a wedge between companies and banks.
I agree 100% with your suggestion, Scarecrow, and I am equally certain that Sen Schumer (D-Wall Street) will do his utmost to represent the interests of his constituents.
Seconded! FDL should keep up the pressure on this issue but lets change the language too all income should be taxed like ordinary income otherwise Chuck will when we are not looking will create a loophole on some form of income and of course the 1% will all flock to move their cash there.
Also we should consider taxing charity income there are to many fake charities and or Church’s that use charity money for political purposes.
After the scandal of banks foreclosing on homes they had no title too Chuck the banks boy I am sure is nervous about banks selling shorted stocks they never had.
From a legal standpoint this could be the big one. Lets see Mitt defend the banks on this or will he stay silent?
Jeebus, the hate here is thick. One would almost think commenters lives would change somehow if other people paid more taxes. No, it feels more like petty revenge on the unknown and unseen.
Is there a cure for this mass psychosis of adoration of a bunch of destructive thieves ?
OUR money is for all our use not only to promote wealth hoarding, which destroys the economy.
Wow! You people are like, so smart and stuff! I think we should build a wall around the country too so that these rich aholes don’t try to get away. We can also make them wear ankle bracelets and if they try to sneak out we can pop ‘em with a drone shot to the f’in head!! BAM…SPLAT..That would be funny huh?
We really need to teach these rich traitors a lesson!
Forward!
Side issue I wonder how many companies don’t bring their profit back to America to avoid taxes but when they need cash in America maybe they get a loan from a foreign bank pay the loan off the next day and avoid taxes by claiming the money is from a foreign loan and is not profit that can be taxed.
Just speculating here I have no idea if such a scheme is possible.
Its sad that Warren Buffet pays less taxes than his secretary as far as hate goes well people should be angry. Lower taxes for the rich were sold to us as necessary to create jobs 10 years of Bush/Obama tax cuts for the rich and we are still waiting for the jobs.
Just tax them at FDR levels and use the money to create jobs like FDR did the Obama recovery they say will take years assuming it works at all a Greek default alone might end this fake recovery.
FDR fixed the Great Depression faster than Obama’s plan is working we should do what works best not what bankers feel is best for them.
Last sentence: you mean distract, not detract.
Regarding the rest, pax Mencken: No one ever went broke underestimating Chuck Schumer’s principles.
I wonder if the banks are nakid short selling FaceBook without actually finding any actual facebook shares to buy?
I wonder if whatever bank handling FaceBook’s IPO is doing any nakid short selling? I wonder how much nakid short selling is hurting FaceBook’s stock Price?
Raise more tax revenues so Obama can start more wars or hand it out to failing banks and corporations–great plan. The problem with this article is that no matter how much money the government sucks, it will still do it’s best to run up huge deficits financing wars, security theater and home, and crony capitalism.
The beast needs to be starved, for the good of everyone.
sh**ters main function in life is to highjack any thread that threatens the 1% in any way. Let’s ignore it and it may go away. You can’t engage it in serious conversation.
BTW, Scarecrow, this was meant as a joke, right?
There is much more at stake than the amount of damages Overstock was claiming, thought to be $55m.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/01/naked-short-selling
My bold imagine how much this could effect a much bigger company like FaceBook?
Counter-productive tax policies that lead Eduardo Saverin to become a tax dodger can be corrected with more counter-productive tax policies. Sounds about typical.
Must disagree the only way we fix the economy is for Government to create jobs. I agree we must get rid of Obama but Mitt is worse. I will not vote for a lesser evil so I wait for the banks to destroy the economy again and for a revolution given the recent economic news I doubt I will wait long.
Your solution is what? Please tell doing nothing is not an option.
As many already know, earlier today Senator Schumer announced the cleverly named Ex-PATRIOT act, which seeks nothing short of exile for anyone who effectively declines their US citizenship for tax avoidance purposes. So far so good. We have, however, one simple question. In light of recent media reports of rampant abuse of various international tax loopholes by US corporations but much more importantly, the glaring abuse of offshore tax shelters by hedge funds – organization such as Paulson & Co., RenTec, York Capital, etc., and financial institutions, such as Lazard, Blackstone, and Credit Suisse, can Senator Schumer please rep, warrant and guarantee that none of his corporate sponsors, i.e., his Top 100 Contributors, have ever engaged in any form of explicit or implicit tax avoidance, tax offshoring, and tax shelter.
here is the link
not posting. zerohedge yesterday and schumer top 100 donors include many tax dodger. Also I am against taxes, debt of any form being used to take away your passport or limit travel. It is a slippery slope.
Seconded.
Not true. He putatively pays a lower rate than his secretary. I can promise you that Buffet pays a significant multiple of his secretary’s tax bill. It’s an important distinction.
The ongoing, continuing, relentless threat of raising taxes is nearly as bad as the real thing.
Here’s your chance. Let’s see what you do with it.
Promise all you want just get me a link.
Funny under FDR’s tax rate we got out of the Great Depression today we are teetering on the brink of another banking crisis because the banks are still gambling and if you read my previous comments they are gambling with stocks they don’t have.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all
Only in America can a company get a bailout then claim a profit and pay no taxes on it. I think Warren needs GE’s tax lawyer’s phone number.
Chuckles is merely tellin stories out of school again, Fing hypocrite that he is. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/simple-question-senator-schumer
I will answer you this one time. I have seen too much of you on this and other threads. You don’t engage to be serious, you comment to highjack the thread. I have other things to think about, and I no longer think about you. Play with that all you want because it is all I will say.
http://my.firedoglake.com/thingscomeundone/2011/07/26/another-lecture-on-imaginary-markets/
More imaginary money between CDS, Nakid Short selling, the possibility of a Greek default I have no idea just what will cause the banks to collapse first.
Good talk gotta go bye:)
Here you go, Buffet paid almost $7 million in tax. That makes him a very valuable citizen, taxwise.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11276066/1/warren-buffett-wants-you-to-see-his-tax-bill.html
As for banksters, we’re on the same page.
OK, you can go on back-biting now.
Ya think? As someone else said, Chuck Schumer (D-Wall Street), exists soley to serve his “constituents.” The end.
I LOVE that.
Persoanlly, I would like nothing better than to pay $7 million in taxes.
How ’bout the rest of you guys and gals????
No shit. I’m not even sure if that’s correct, either. But ‘spose for the moment that is what Buffet paid in taxes? So??? It’s representative of how frickin’ insanely much Buffet “made,” and that’s mostly from cap. gains, which are taxed at insanely low rates.
What? Am I suppposed to *feel sorry* for Buffet?? I don’t think even Buffet wants some pity. Doi.
What’s being willfully *ignored* is that proportionate to what Buffet’s secy made, Buffet paid MUCH LESS in taxes that she did. The secy didn’t make a honking HUGE amount of money; Buffet did. Buffet still has a honking HUGE amount of money at his disposal. His secy does not.
What a load a crap, but we all know that. I don’t know why the Kochs get such a low return on their money here at FDL and/or I wish they’d find someone smarter who could actually, you know, make a decent contribution to the conversation. This one is dead boring (along with being dead wrong) and endlessly repetitive. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If Schumer taxed “hot air in Washington,” the debt problem would be solved quickly.
The reason Buffet’s $7B got brought up again was TCU made an untrue statement at #13.
If he had said “lower rate” or “proportionate” as you did, it would have been true. If TCU didn’t realize the difference it’s a mistake. If he did, it’s a commonly repeated lie.
a quiz for shooter. As a business owner do you make more money selling 1 item with a 99.9 percent tax rate or selling 0 items with a 0 percent tax rate??
I know the answer to that question, do you??
Ok. On that I agree. It’s a proportionate thing, not something that’s in actual dollar amounts.
Still, what I said stands. IF Buffet truly did pay $7mill in taxes, it’s representative of how honking much in million$$$ his “made” mostly from investments, which are taxed at very low rates.
As a member of the dwindling middle class, I pay 15% rate on my cap gains, but members of the .00001% club, like Buffet, pay even LOWER cap gains taxes. For ex, I believe that Mitt Rmoney paid something like 12.9% on the million$$$$ he made somewhere around 2010 in cap gains. That’s 12.9%, folks, and there are those incessantly whiiiiiiiing that rich fucks like Rmoney should PAY LESS in taxes so he can “create jobs.”
I am still waiting (not said directly to you, Alan, unless you have an answer) for someone out there to name ONE job that Rmoney has “created.”
I asked this question from time to time, and unsurprisingly, I never get an answer. Wonder why…
heh… good one.
If I may….on the tax return that Romney DID produce, his effectiuve tax rate was 12.9%. OTOH, Gingrich, for example paid 28% on his adjusted gross income.
OK, I’ll tackle that. His bank in Switzerland had to hire two people.
I think that’s a trick question.
What kind of item????
..
..
What? It might make a differnece.
One more thing, which is not aimed specifically at you, Alan, but…
It’s true that one should not imply – either by accident or design – that Warren Buffet paid less taxes in a dollar amount than his secretary did. As discussed, Buffet paid less *proportionately* or in percentage, than his sec’y.
By the same token, one should not imply/say – either by accident or design – ONLY that Buffet paid more in dollar amounts than his sec’y. Yes, Buffet did pay more in dollar amounts, but it was still LESS in terms of percentage of income/earnings.
Both are “lies” as you say.
.1 percent is certainly more than zero, but so what? Nobody is going into business with a 99.9% tax rate, ergo tax revenue would be zero also. Come back when you have a point.
heh… DING! In all seriousness, you are the FIRST and ONLY person to make any kind of a suggestion as to what jobs Rmoney “created.” And what you said may even be true! But if so: that’s about it. heh
Because it isn’t the right question. Romney has created lots of jobs and eliminated lots of jobs. What’s the net number?
P.S. Creating jobs wasn’t Romney’s business, making money was. Meanwhile, look up “creative destruction” and why buggy whip manufacturers went out of business.
What specific jobs did Rmoney “create”?
Still no answer, I note.
Nick Hanauer at the TED conf said it was middle class consumers who “created jobs,” not the 1% bus. owners.
If Mitt Rmoney’s “job” was to “make money,” then why is Rmoney being hyped as a “job creator“???
Still the FIRST & ONLY one to give me an answer, I note.
Lordy, are you really this obtuse? OK. The simple answer is that he created a job at every business he bought.
Still waiting for a specific answer: WHAT specific job(s) did Rmoney “create”? What specifically were the jobs (like: what did they do) and WHERE specifically were they? Which companies?
GST Steel Workers don’t think Rmoney “created” any jobs, especially as their jobs were destroyed so that Rmoney could “create wealth” for himself.
Still waiting…. what specific job did Rmoney ever “create.” WHAT was the job & what company was it at?
All the former workers at Dade International don’t see Rmoney as a “job creator.”
Thousands of former employees at KB Toys don’t see Rmoney as a “job creator.”
Thousands of former employess of DDI don’t see Rmoney as a “job creator.”
Guess I won’t get answer to my question again today.
Oh well. Better luck next time.
Oh, woops, I forgot… I didn’t ask “the right question.” So that’s why I can’t get answer… bc the answer I seek doesn’t have the “right kind” of explanation, I guess.
My bad!
Of course, it is ONLY questions like mine that are “bad.” Because, I guess, they cannot be answered… for some very mysterious reason.
On that note: TGIF.
tax rates are meaningless if no one buys anything. It’s really a fairly simple point. People having the ability to buy is much more important than an arbitrary tax rate. With the amount of tax cuts the last 30 years we should have zero percent unemployment. It’s a fallacy beyond comprehension tying tax rates to employment. Is that clear enough??
You’re not asking the “right question.” /s
What do you add to anything? You proved my point with your response.
No kidding.
I didn’t “ask the right question.”
You don’t “have a point.”
Seems like convenient “excuses” for “answers” to genuine questions.
But then again: same old, different day. Nothing new here, which means: the so-called “arguments/excuses/defenses” of “Trickle Down/Supply Side” economics remain the same as they ever were: an excuse for the 1% to rip off the 99% in the name of something or other which escapes me right now, but I’m sure I’ll figure it out one of these days.
OR: baloney.
Until we break up the incredible fortunes of the plutocrats, we are going to live in a plutocracy; it’s as simple as that.
As long as we live in a plutocracy, conditions are going to get worse for the 99%, and that’s just a regrettable fact.
The only way to break up those fortunes (while restoring and expanding the safety net) is through a wealth tax. My suggestion would be a tax kicking in at 1% on a net worth and increasing to 20% annual on a net worth of a billion or more.
This suggestion is generally met with resounding silence – even when presented to the most progressive of audiences, such as FDL.
So enjoy the plutocracy folks. You must secretly like it.
Well that’s unfair. You come in here late in the game, and then appear to be “whining” about “silence” and then imply that everyone at FDL “loves the plutocracy.”
WTF? That’s pretty disingenuous, to say the least. Plus unfactual.
I don’t know if I agree completely with your proposal, but I doubt that the majority who comment here are “against” some kind of change to the tax system, whereby the egregiously wealthy have to start to pay more of their “fair share.” At least going back to the Clinton tax rates, including the rates on Cap gains, would be a definite step in the right direction.
Spare me what appears to be ersatz hand wringing. If I’ve misinterpreted what you’re saying: please feel free to *politiely* refute my “take.” I’m willing to be *graciously* corrected (and not called names, thanks).
Another thing about Buffet’s taxes: Virtually all of Buffet’s 50 million or so in income was “disposable income.” IOW, even if he has a million or so in annual expenses – unlikely in Buffet’s case – that leaves him 49 mill to buy a yacht, or an island, or build his own amusement park – whatever.
Whereas his secretary – and the rest of us – have monthly expenses that make a significant dent in that income. In many cases, they have no “disposable” income at all; they’re struggling just to stay afloat.
If politicos were serious about “middle class” tax cuts, they would simply raise the standard deduction. About 10 years ago, I read that the standard deduction in Japan was 35,000 dollars! Of course, we would actually have to tax corporations and the rich to be able to afford that, (sigh)
Make some kind of argument other than the straw man you just presented, and I’ll respond. I never said the majority here were against “some kind of change” to the tax system. I said that the silence regarding the only change that can end the plutocracy is deafening.
You do realize that $7 million was %17.4 of his taxable income of on adjusted gross income last year was $62,855,038. I got this information from your own link.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11276066/1/warren-buffett-wants-you-to-see-his-tax-bill.html
Call it a mistake.
Chuck “The Wall Street Shill” Schumer only supports actions that directly benefit the Banksters, Israel, and Chuck Schumer. All of the rest is empty rhetoric.
He seems to enjoy wasting time responding to the ignorance displayed by trolls like shooter242 and iseeitfx. Claims that it’s possible to have an intelligent exchange of ideas with them.
I guess you are that obtuse. Dade Behring shed jobs in Miami and created jobs in Delaware, Illinois, and Germany. Did you miss the part where I said jobs were both created and destroyed?
All that’s correct, which is why Buffet is much more valuable citizen than his secretary.
Sorry but your point still eludes me.
What in the world does tax rates have to do with buying something? Everybody buys stuff no matter what their tax rate is.
OK???
Perhaps you could point out who made that assertion? It wasn’t me. Are you trying to say that raising taxes will create jobs?
Nobody doubts that Buffet is probably the best stock picker of this generation. But read UnEasyOne at 73 there needs to be a balance the middle class should make enough to have disposable income too. Taxing the rich less has so far not created jobs ten years of Bush/Obama tax cuts has yet to create the jobs we need.
Whatever Buffet makes has no bearing on what the middle class makes. The middle class makes what it makes, because of global competition. Taxing Buffet more won’t help the middle class either. If you check this unemployment chart you’ll see it go up during the Clinton-9/11 recession and go down when the Bush cuts go into effect. Then all hell breaks loose and the financial crisis arrives.
http://theintrinsicvalue.com/research/$clip_image002%5B3%5D.png
I will actually agree that tax rates alone don’t move the economy. Optimism does, and right now that’s in short supply.
Someone has to pay taxes or we can cut military spending. The middle class has little savings right now either they get help or the middle class will start shrinking. China is doing fine because their government has tariffs and supports industry. They also execute bad businessmen sometimes.
I guess it makes you feel better to put me down. If that’s what you need to feel better, so be it.
Please list what jobs Mitt Rmoney “created” in DE, IL & Germany.
I provided links for what I was pointing out. Per usual, in addition to being unnecessarily rude (for no real reason), you hurl out some unattributed “information” that tells me nothing.
STILL waiting to have my question answered. Duly noted.
Ah. Fascism on display.
You may see my argument as a “straw man,” and that’s your right. I don’t happen to see it that way.
Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
This should do it for you…
http://www.american.com/archive/2012/january/how-many-jobs-did-romney-create-at-bain
Propoganda from the American Enterprise Institute doesn’t count. I am looking for real, verifiable facts, not fake bullshit. Baloney.
Tick tock… still waiting…
Then I suggest you contact the Romney campaign.
Ho hum. Yet another day with my question gone unanswered. Not. A. Surprise. Because there is NO answer. Vulture capitalists like Willard Rmoney are rapacious pillaging bastards who suck the money out of companies, ripping off citizens who’ve worked hard all their lives, and then the Rmoney’s of the world skip off into the sunset with their million$ and billion$ in their off-shore Swiss & elsewhere accounts.
I have a number of friends who were ripped off in this fashion by companies they worked for being leveraged in vulture capitalistic ways. I know, personally, people who worked all their lives – a couple of them are *still* working in the 80s – and never ever ever thought to ask for a “hand out,” which is excoriated by the vulture capitalists & their fellow travelers, sycophants and enablers.
Today I am baldly told & bluntly told that such citizens “are not valuable.” I guess perhaps because somehow because these people chose to, you know, work hard & save their money in 401(k) plans, which were then sucked dry by the vultures, and their not insanely wealthy by hook or CROOKed means, then they are simply to be derided, spat upon, shit on and frankly told: eat shit & die.
I find Facism in all it’s many forms very brutal, brutish, ugly and wildly unfair. Yeah yeah: life’s not fair. Tis true, but why are we, as a society, *permitting* ourselves to be punching bags for the greedy rich, yet told that somehow we’re worthless & should just STFU and die fast? All in the name of: you don’t “contribute.” You’re “not valuable.”
Got that folks: YOU’RE NOT VALUABLE.
Simply because you’re not a greedy rapacious pillaging shitheaded Facist: YOU’RE NOT VALUABLE.
And you’ll be told fables and fairy tales and bullshit lies about how greedy shitheads, like Willard Rmoney, “worked so hard,” and needs yet another frickin’ tax break in order that he might somehow some day be begged and pleaded to, you know, “create” jobs ‘n stuff.
What a stunning load of hogwash. But there it is. Bullshit on a shingle. Come get it while it’s hot.
Mitt Rmoney never “created” a damn frickin’ job in his silver-spooned legacy life. All he did was create misery and poverty for the 99%, who surely didn’t deserve it. The end.
Outta here. Over & out. Learn some lessons. Stand up for your rights. Don’t let the bastards grind you down. And don’t believe bullshit.
Yep, just as expected: NO FRICKIN’ ANSWER.
Because: Rmoney never “created” one damn job.