My concern is that with one of the most aggressive and widely supported reform movements, we still are capturing less than half of the support. If there was no widespread knowledge of the events, I would agree that political advertising could sway those that do not follow events as closely as they should. That is not the case, however. Unions have actively supported this defeat of Walker, and massive public outcry held the front page of the newspapers for months.

Are we saying that people who support the recall have been swayed by ads? I find it hard to believe that progressive voters are so wishy-washy that they are willing to change their positions based on something they see on TV.

What worries me is that over half of the voters simply disagree with us.

The Wisconsin and National Democratic Party will do everything in their power. Except promote actual democracy.

Please refer to the Wisconsin Democrats keeping Darcy Richardson and Wisconsin resident Aldous Tyler off the ballot, in an attempt to primary president Oily-Bomber.

Kabuki Theatre time again.

but the DNC has rebutted the criticism on their end, saying that they have given significant funds to the state party in Wisconsin this year, that DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz will help Barrett raise money later in the month, and that they plan to make available voter lists and OFA volunteers for the effort.

Whatever. The very fact that the DNC doesn’t consider this to be one of the most important races this year shows just how out of touch they are. But that won’t stop them from shifting blame if Walker wins or taking the credit if he loses.

Some might suggest that the zeitgeist of the country is one which opposes unions, workers rights, equity and justice and in fact identifies with rich elites in the mistaken belief that they are only one lottery ticket away from joining that pampered and privileged class.

and of course if the recall is a failure the DNC will argue that the “professional left” was intransigent and out of touch.

As we all know, when the union busting Walker was pushing his anti-union bill, Obama was nowhere to be found. Obama was too busy hanging with his buddy John Boehner trying to get a grand bargain debt deal, and Obama was willing to toss Social Security and Medicare on the pile.

Now, with this recall, Obama again is nowhere to be found. Shitty leadership. And maybe Obama secretly agrees with Walker and what he did to working class people. They both shill for the 1 percent anyway.

Over half of Americans do NOT disagree with us. Sometimes however, it is the case that over half of VOTERS do. And sometimes, it is the case that even when over half the VOTERS do NOT, they still win.

This is particularly valid in Wisconsin where it happened last year in the statewide Supreme Court race.

I’m absolutely sure more residents of Wisconsin want him recalled than don’t. I’m also almost absolutely sure that he won’t be.

Actually, I was more along different lines. It is one thing to present the worker issues when their opposition is a private company and the negotiations are between the two. So long as those negotiations do not dive jobs overseas, we are completely in the workers corner.

It is something else when the workers are paid by the taxpayers. Real estate taxes from a lot of the 99% go to support teachers, cops, firemen and the like. While we are totally in support of the public worker unions, we often seem to completely ignore the 99% homeowners who foot the bill.

There was a day when we were equally as much in the corner of the middle class homeowners. And I am afraid that is what is welling up in the recall elections.

Very frustrating. It seems we have to fight both parties to get anything done. I sent some money for the recall.

Part of the problem is that the premise of recall, bargaining rights, has gotten overshadowed by jobs figures which are bad but somewhat inconsistent, and that’s not nearly as inflammatory as the legislative assault on workers. The recall message suffers that way, I think.

As far as ads, there need to be enough undecideds out there or weakly supportive of Walker who can be turned away from him. There needs to be grunt work with those voter lists, door to door, phone banks. Also, groups with recall signs near busy intersections. Maybe a big push will do it.

That is my concern. Plus the John Doe charges, the fake ‘Koch’ call and still half support Walker. Per Ed Schultz this week, substantial union members still support Walker.

Maybe the Progressive ideal has run its course. Put a fork in it.

From a distance it seems a situation familiar to me. The real progressive candidates are cut off at the knees by an entrenched conservative Democratic establishment. If tv interviews on MSNBC are any indication this guy Barrett has to be the worst milk toast candidate I have seen outside Georgia. I wait to be proven wrong in my assessment that this is an internal failure of a Democratic Party in Wisconsin that does not represent the will of most of the people.

In 2010 I spent a lot of time musing on ways the polls were off, that it was going to be bad but not that bad. But the polls ended up being spot on. Since then I’ve been wary of trying to second guess the polls.

But I’m still second-guessing the polls here. The likely voter models are Republican-rich. They seem to be predicting a pro-Barrett turnout LESS than the number of people who actually signed the recall petition, which makes exactly no sense.

The polls seem to show very few undecideds, which does make sense. Decideds are much less likely to be influenced by advertising. The air war may not make all that much difference. More important may be reminding people that there IS and election and WHEN it will occur.

Even the “Walker by 5″ result is just outside the margin for error, and I don’t think the likely voter models are anywhere near that accurate.

Screw the polls. It will be close, but this can be won. GOtV.

The DNC, Wasserman Schultz, OFA, national Dem operatives and office holders generally don’t give a rat’s patootie about WI. http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/001705.html Walker or Barrett makes no difference to them. If Wasserman Schultz sets foot in WI, it will all be for show. Can’t let people get the idea that institutional power and entitlement is everything that matters.

If you let the linked article sink to the bone, you won’t care about them, either. You’ll run your own show and let them in or shut them out as they make themselves useful or not to you.

One poll in WI, Marquette University I think, showed union support of Walker at 39%.

Me too. This could be a watershed event. A victory could embolden the American public. A loss could deflate the efforts to “take back our country from the 1%” irrevocably.

Turning the public against public servants has all been part of the right wing’s strategy. First, bankrupt state and local government and then point fingers at the public workers and shout “it’s their fault.” A clever strategy and given the intelligence of the “average” voter and apparently many union voters a successful strategy.

The DNC should send any and all celebrities that are willing to Wisconsin to support this effort. This could be our Battle of Midway with the 1%.

But I’m still second-guessing the polls here.

what causes me to lend more credence to the polls is the size of the Walker vote in the primary. With no competition, an awful lot of folks showed up at the polls for him.

It’s kinda hard when Feingold decided to stay out of it.

Most Americans have been convinced that it is to their advantage to vote against their own economic best interests in the belief they are only one lottery ticket or one trip to the local casino away from becoming rich beyond their wildest imagination.

It’s looking more like the battle of Thermopylae. 25 to 1 spending difference? Hardly an even fight.

What must be overcome is that every month a homeowner must write a check for their real estate tax bill which is almost totally to pay the salaries and benefits of local public employees. In this era of unemployment and foreclosures, it is quite easy to make the case that those tax bills are something that is harming the homeowners families.

Cut the military budget by 20% and spread the savings to the states to help pay for education costs.

I don’t know about WI-ites, but celebrities coming into NJ to support any candidate turn me off. Who are these tourists to tell me how to vote, they don’t even live in the fucking state!

I’m reluctant to make phone calls for other states because I wouldn’t want some out of stater calling me. Go the hell home and get out the vote for your own state candidates. I’ll bet at least a substantial minority agree with me.

DNC wonders why I won’t send them money when they do this type of S*&^ It looks like Scott Walker could have a fraud problem but I doubt doj will look into it.

http://www.propublica.org/article/political-donations-flagged-as-potential-fraud

This all comes as Walker has tried to muddy the waters on his dismal jobs numbers since coming into office.

Instead of saying “creating” jobs, he should just change it to “creating or saving” jobs, liks has been done before.

A million saved jobes can’t be so easily counted.

You didn’t ask me which celebrities……..

Salma Hayek, Scarlett Johansson, Sela Ward, Charlize Theron, Jenny McCarthy,

catch my drift????

Cut the military budget by 20%

If and when that works out, we might be able to make a case in Wisconsin. Until that time, however, it is the homeowner that bears the brunt of the cost for the public employee debate and until we have something a little shorter term to offer them, I am afraid that we will lose the battle in Wisconsin and perhaps elsewhere.

Maybe after this (hopefully) lesson learned, the movement people will turn their attention and energies to shaping up the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, starting with Mike Tate. That’s where the problem is. You have to consider the possibility that the DNC won’t pitch in money to the WI Dems for two reasons: 1) they’re all about Obama and 2) they don’t have any regard for the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. On the second point, I think they have a point.

Which rope would you prefer to be hung with, the red one or the blue one?

And because the DNC is composed of the puppets of the 1%, they will do nothing substantial to aid in the defeat of Walker.

No. Is there something to be gained electorally by importing Salma Hayek to flash her breasts at potential voters? I have no idea where on the political spectrum the other women fall, but I’ll bet Ward, at least, is a Republican and if she is, might be willing to put in an appearance or two for Walker.

Indeed. Tribalism is a losing proposition, but it plays well for the tribal elders.

20%, hell, cut it by 50% and use it for domestic needs including single payer health care. Greybeard’s argument in.re. property taxes is absurd.
Consider that real estate taxes are used to finance local services for the community where they are collected, including education, infrastructure maintenance, police and fire service. The money is generated and dispensed locally, and he thinks that’s a detriment to families of homeowners. Try doing without those services.

It’s not absurd to argue that many people see it that way. They do and they vote. Christie and Sweeney couldn’t get away with their crap here in NJ if that weren’t true.

I don’t know if they dream of lottery tickets, but I agree that Americans identify up. It’s a feature of human psychology and elites are well aware.

Once again the democrats put up a wishy-washy democrat. The democrats deserve to lose this election. As to the national DNC not pouring money into this election, just proves the Democratic Party is just a tool of corporate interests.

And I guess Obama’s “good walking shoes” to stand with labor must be out at the shoemakers, getting buffed up for his “progressive” transformation during an election year.

These people could actually be Republican households that are claiming to be Union to cause perception problems. I have run elections against many republicans and they are smart strategists in this area.

We have to start putting the blame where it is due…..the VOTERS. We need to just let everything fall apart….break the Unions …cut Medicare, Medicaid, SS, Unemployment Compensation …everything because Republican voters live off of these programs and we need to throw them off, Only then will we get reform. It is going to hurt all of us but it is the only way.

Wisconsin is getting to be the new state of Mississippi of the North.

To maintain a positive note for “progressives” is that it is very possible that we (WI) gains two State Senate seats. Minimally that stops the bleeding.

I also agree that the national DNC does not see this fight as a defining moment for the 2012 race and the 2014 race for Johnson’s seat back!

In response to the quote of Ed Schultz last night that 39% of union members will vote for Walker, someone responded a union member voting for Walker is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders. Very disturbing if Walker beats this recall.

Greybeard’s argument in.re. property taxes is absurd.

Holey – I am not suggesting that the services are not needed, nor am I suggesting that taxpayers do not appreciate, use and need them. And I don’t believe that there is animosity between the taxpayers and their local public servants. That, however, does not mean that the taxpayers are willing to pay any price. Benefits to public employees when the taxpayers are losing theirs will and does create questions in the minds of the home owners.

I love strawberries, and frequently buy them. But when the price is outlandish, I buy something else.

If you think the public service employees are too expensive then go out and hire your own fire, police protection and home school your children. Maybe you and your neighbors can get together and hire private contractors that provide those services. If this should prove to be too expensive you could always move to Somalia.

Europeans identify horizontally. They have solidarity with their class. Americans have been told there are no class distinctions in the U.S.. The biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American public.

Please, I did not say that I believed that. What I said is it looks enough Wisconsinites believe that to re-elect Walker. And we don’t seem to have a message that resonates enough to win.

Must be why so many Americans swoon at the mention of British royalty and hang on every account of their doings. No class distinctions, that is.

Seems like every time Fergie needs money, she comes here.

hey, I said it before, running Barrett in a rematch with Walker is like Bob Dole running for prez again.

Does anyone expect a different result?

What’s with Barrett, anyway? I’ve read that he’s another Demopub.

My take is if Walker wins it’s a combination of things. First it’s this shitty economy under dem control in the White House and 4 of the last 5 years in congress. That kills much enthusiasm to come out and support failing dems again. Conversely, the repubs are probably more enthused to come out.

Other things are the middle of the road, yawner dems the leadership supports and sadly too many constituents vote for. The whole electability thing is like a disease afflicting a larger proportion of dems. Also, DNC leadership currently appears not too engage in the 50 state strategy approach Dean applied across the board.

As a Green, who cares. The best thing that can happen is if this whole house of cards crashes sooner rather than later.

The last thing, the very last thing, the Dem party wants is for a grassroots campaign to be successful. It might, you know, give the 99%ers the idea that maybe they can influence things. And we can’t have that, now can we?

I would be very careful about your wish. Those who wait for things to hit rock bottom risk an existence like Syria right now, where people are motivated and inspired but the power structure is too entrenched and will just wear down (or mow down) the opposition. It’s very hard to fight back when there are no further avenues to help balance the scales. For example, people look for help from the courts, but if the courts get packed with more GOP appointees, that option falls to the wayside as well.

Walker is probably going to win, but it’s very important to try to make it close. As Karl Rove said, the wider the margin, the more they can tout the message that this is what the “overwhelming” number of the American people want. Instead I think people need to move on to other battles and try to stem the momentum.

“I would be very careful about your wish. Those who wait for things to hit rock bottom risk an existence like Syria right now, where people are motivated and inspired but the power structure is too entrenched and will just wear down (or mow down) the opposition.”

With the 2 main parties, hitting rock bottom is inevitable. The rethugs just get us there a lttle quicker. The dems go a little slower but this allows the things you fear to become even more entrenched.

This will be the first test to see if the Supreme Court really did sell out the country to the highest bidder. Those POS. God they are loathsome.

First of all there has been problems in Wisconsin from the day working people to to the streets and occupied the Wisconsin State Capitol building in that both the Democrats and union leadership tried to push working people to abandon their expanding united, militant struggles as the way to resolve the problems Governor Scott Walker created for public employees after Obama and the Democrats fed him raw meat in the form of imposing a wage freeze on federal employees while mounting an attack on postal workers and the United States Postal system with Wisconsin Democrats calling for “saving” bargaining rights so they could “negotiate” wage and benefit concessions from public employees. And, furthermore, the Democrats and leadership of the state and national AFL-CIO and Change To Win unions along with the Green Party refused to link the financial problems of the state with money being wasted and squandered on militarism, wars and occupations while pretending they were going to pursue policies of taxing the rich when they had no intent of doing this using this phrase-mongering to sound militant when all they were doing is undermining the grassroots and rank-and-file initiated struggles which they, too, feared as much as the Republicans. And to further complicate matters, some phony leftists brought forward the idea of a General Strike knowing full well they never intended to organize any such thing but they, too, wanted to sound super militant just like the worthless Democrats and corrupt and cowardly union leaders.

In essence what transpired is the exact same thing that happens with just about every single grievance working people file against management. Instead of resolving these grievances through workplace actions, the grievances are stuck in a pile where they are placed out of sight and out of mind so workers believe they have no power to accomplish anything. The big-mouth union “leaders” will swear about the bosses and make militant sounding speeches all the while they are working behind the backs of workers to undermine solving the grievances— AFSCME are real good for this and we have all seen and heard the “militant” sounding speeches from the likes of those worthless union leaders like Leo Gerard of the USW who is more interested in protecting Obama’s ass than in solving the problems of the workers whose dues pay his big fat salary. Then we have Richard Trumka who talks a good militant line then manages to make excuses why workers shouldn’t fight and struggle to protect their jobs and livelihoods but, instead, in the end he leaves it all to Obama and the Democrats to shove the shaft all the way in.

What should have been done in Wisconsin while workers were in the streets and occupying the State Capitol is a new political party should have been formed right then and there with candidates chosen from the ranks of workers to take on both the Republicans and the Democrats as the movement continued to build towards a General Strike— street heat enforcing electoral action.

Education plus Organization geared towards united militant struggles in the streets and at the polls— this has always been the key to working class victories in this country.

Neither the Democrats nor these worthless management-loving labor “leaders” have ever won anything of substance for working people in this country— history is full of the proof of this. Only left-led union movements bringing together rank-and-file workers with working class grassroots initiatives have won real and substantial reforms and change in this country.

The great working class activist, song-writer and folk singer Utah Phillips always pointed out you haven’t done anything if you haven’t been called a “Red.”

Working people will begin to win these struggles once they check out why the “Reds” could organize unions while all we have seen from the anti-communist labor “leaders” is continued acquiescence to attacks on workers’ rights and livelihoods that accompany job loss and wage concessions and giving up benefits. it is pathetic that it is workers who create all wealth and it is this power to stop creating the wealth that these present union “leaders” refuse to wisely use to wrest concessions from the big-business Wall Street dominated government.

I spent the last three weeks criss-crossing Wisconsin meeting with workers in their homes and community centers discussing all of this.

while traveling across Wisconsin I noted what just about every single working class family has observed: The Democrats and union leaders are distancing themselves from grassroots and rank-and-file working class action.

The proof of this is that the Democrats are telling people not to put up “recall Walker” signs in their yards with campaign signs for the Democrats. One only needs to travel from one end of Wisconsin to the other on Highway #8 to observe this happening.

In fact, this is about a 300 mile jaunt. Traveling this highway and going through the communities along this highway one notices that every single “recall Walker” sign has come down while there are hundreds of yard signs supporting Walker and hundreds of yard signs for Democratic candidates even though none of the signs touting Democrats so much as have the word “Democrat” on their campaign signs. I counted over 600 “We stand with Scott Walker” yard signs along this route— not one single “recall Walker” sign remains and there was ONE— yes, just ONE lone “Elect Barrett” yard sign in the town of Ladysmith— a community ravished by unemployment; Ladysmith leads the State of Wisconsin in unemployment yet not one sign of the Democrats calls for creating jobs. Rusk County peace activists do have one huge peace billboard along Highway #8 but none of the Democrats so much as mention that Wisconsin’s budget problems stem from Obama and the Democrats and Republicans squandering taxes on militarism, wars and occupations.

The Democrats are digging their own graves in Wisconsin. The problem is thousands of working class families are going to be buried along with them if corrective action is not taken.

Just because Barrett, the Democrats and the union leaders don’t want to undertake the kind of struggle needed to win doesn’t mean that rank-and-file and grassroots working class activists need to join them in their graves.

Obviously the time is too short to create the kind of political party which was required so working people are going to have to use their creativity to win through electing these worthless Democrats while realizing they can’t postpone the need for the creation of a working class based people’s party similar to what Canadian workers have in their socialist New Democratic Party.

It is a shame neither Jill Stein nor Rocky Anderson have had the foresight to go into Wisconsin to stir the pot for building political alternatives to the Democrats at a time when people would be most receptive to talk about alternatives to the Democrats. Wisconsin remains “ground-zero” for the working class movement and it causes one to wonder why Stein and Anderson have been so timid— seems to me this timidity is part of that same stupid “safe states” bullshit just the other side of the same coin.

In fact, Jill Stein opened up her National Headquarters in a building on the third floor in Madison out of sight from the street-level action— what was she thinking?

If Stein and Anderson had joined forces they could have opened up offices in numerous cities all across Wisconsin which would have pushed the electoral struggle to where it should have been in the first place— something that can still be corrected; not in time for this recall Walker election but in time to give Obama the defeat he so richly deserves for abandoning the workers of Wisconsin.

Which brings me to all this crying and crap about Scott Walker outspending the Democrats. Walker is going to have the money because he serves Wall Street’s interests. Money won’t beat Walker only an active working class fully participating in the political process can do this.

This blame the Democratic National Committee is an Obama ploy. The DNC can’t be defeated by voters but all these worthless Democrats like Obama can and this is what all this talk about “blame the DNC” is all about.

Come on; wake up! If you were Obama and didn’t put on your marching shoes you would have to blame someone, too. Obviously Obama can’t blame the Republicans for weakening the working class movement in Wisconsin so he has to blame the DNC. This is Obama we are talking about; the great “leader of the people” according to all these phony union leaders and phony “progressives for Obama” who continue to support Obama even though there was nothing preventing Obama from putting on his marching shoes (or can someone find a reason to blame the Republicans for this, too?).

If working people are going to win in Wisconsin they are going to have to regroup along class struggle lines and get up to speed real quick about how they have been had by the Democrats and over-paid union leaders more concerned about sacrificing the rights, lives and livelihoods of those they are paid to represent because they are engaged in a “blitz” to re-elect Barack Obama to a second term he doesn’t deserve based on the record of his first term which mired us further in debt causing wars of occupation which have forced austerity measures down our throats and Walker and the Republicans can’t be blamed for this except to the extent they gleefully and willingly followed Obama’s lead.

Not once has any leader from the AFL-CIO or Change To Win unions ever asked the people of Wisconsin:

How is Barack Obama’s Wall Street war economy working for you?

A retired AFL-CIO union organizer at a May Day demonstration tried to bully and badger me to put down my banner asking this question telling me in front of everyone “Maki’s question sounds like it comes from Sarah Palin.” This shows how worthless and mean and the complete disregard these people have for the plight of working people. These cowards don’t dare ask this most important question on the one hand while with their other hand they take down the “recall Scott Walker signs” and put up signs for Democrats that don’t even identify these candidates as Democrats. And this is the crux of the problem in Wisconsin.

History has proven that when workers don’t struggle, they don’t win.

And who wins when the workers don’t win? The bosses win.

Anyone can travel through Wisconsin talking with working people and they will quickly find something is taking place no one seems to want to talk about: the class struggle.

Typical Democrats: circle the wagons and shoot each other

And who wins when the workers don’t win? The bosses win.

And in the case of the public employees, the bosses are the government? or the taxpayers? or whom?