When I noted that Nancy Pelosi now sees “middle class tax cuts” as applying to anything under $1 million in income, the only part I didn’t have a firm grasp of was the specific dollar figures underlying this shift. I knew that you would end up with far less in revenue if you drew the dividing line at $1 million instead of $250,000; that’s common sense. This professional troll tries to mock my lack of specificity by pulling a quote from Pelosi from the past, where she says that 80% of the Bush tax cuts go to millionaires. He clearly doesn’t understand marginal tax rates – plenty of those tax cuts would STILL go to millionaires, on the first $1 million of their income, if you don’t roll back the tax cuts until the $1 million mark.
Citizens for Tax Justice has helpfully run the numbers for me. And it’s pretty much as I suspected. First of all, they note that “Pelosi’s proposal to extend the Bush income tax cuts for taxpayers’ first $1 million of income is a departure from President Obama’s proposal to extend the tax cuts for the first $250,000 that a married couple makes and the first $200,000 a single person makes.” That’s still in the President’s budget, so this represents an undeniable shift.
As to the numbers. CTJ estimates that Pelosi’s plan would save 43% less revenue than Obama’s plan. Not to brag, but this is right around what I estimated.
CTJ’s preliminary estimates show that Obama’s proposal to extend the Bush tax cuts for the first $250,000 or $200,000 of income a taxpayer makes would save between $60 billion and $70 billion in 2013 compared to the GOP proposal to extend all the tax cuts, depending on economic conditions. Leader Pelosi’s proposal to extend the Bush tax cuts for the first $1 million of income would save 43 percent less revenue than Obama’s proposal.
So now you’re talking about between $25.8 and $30.1 billion in 2013, substantially less revenue than from the Obama plan at $250,000, and enormously less than letting all the tax cuts expire.
Moreover, highlighting the other point I made, half of the additional tax cuts, on the income between $250,000 and $1 million that Pelosi would now give up would go to millionaires. This is that whole “marginal tax rate” thing our professional troll doesn’t seem to grasp.
The additional tax cut that would result from Pelosi’s plan compared to Obama’s plan (the additional tax cut resulting from extending the Bush tax provisions for taxpayers’ first $1 million of income instead of “just” their first $250,000 or $200,000 of income) would not be targeted towards the “middle class.” In fact, 50 percent of this additional tax cut would go to taxpayers with adjusted gross income (AGI) in excess of $1 million.
This would result because under Pelosi’s proposal, a married couple making $3 million a year, for example, would continue to pay the lower tax rates (enacted under President Bush) on $1 million of their income. Under Obama’s proposal, a married couple making $3 million a year would continue to pay the lower tax rates on just $250,000 of their income.
So you can credibly say that Pelosi’s tax cut plan is, in large part, a tax cut plan for millionaires. As Bob McIntyre of CTJ says, “This town may never agree on who is middle-class, but surely we can agree it doesn’t include anyone who makes over a million dollars a year.”
UPDATE: Jared Bernstein’s take is good. He intimates that the White House will strongly oppose Pelosi’s stance. And Democratic hacks defended it as part of a political game:
But Pelosi and the White House differ on their numbers – President Barack Obama has maintained that the Bush tax rates should end for those making more than $250,000. A Democratic source explained Pelosi’s move: if Republicans didn’t agree to her proposal, it would make it “clear they are standing with millionaires and endangering the economic security of the middle class.”
So it’s that “heightening the contradictions” thing. I’m with Bernstein, too clever by half. Within ten years, we’ll see Democrats saying “Surely we can all agree that people making $197 million a year don’t deserve the Bush tax cuts, right?”




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At this rate, it’s not clear there will be a Democratic Party in 10 years.
They were called Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich for a reason. Let them all expire.
Indeed…
then again, one could argue that there hasn’t been a Democratic Party for several decades.
Will the compromise be setting it at 500 million for letting the tax cuts expire?? or is that figure even way too low for the GOP!!
You can’t take it back, nancy. We know who you are now!
I think we lost the democratic party a long time ago, somewhere in the mists of time. Vote for Jill Stein, if nothing more it is a message, a sign of the times.
Yep, click on Bob Parry link and if your over 50 you might know most of the player in this story.It’s long but worth your time
http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/the-one-party-state-the-true-history-of-watergate/
Really, David, you were SOOOO RUDE to that professional troll. The least you could have done was to advise him to avoid direct sunlight. :)
So true and in a real way effects perceptions of all those so outta touch. She blew it.
The Democratic Party was dead the moment the DLC/Third Way/New Democrats sunk their hooks into every part of the leadership. The Democratic Party now consists of a tiny cabal of wealthy Centrist dogmatic ideologues holding the Left/Center-Left under their thumb.
And GAH! The People’s Spew.
There is NO Democratic party…
Only the UNIPARTY [one party-two names] now exists.
David, David, David….you’re working too hard. Slow down. You’re wearing US out.
You meant the one with the elephant’s trunk and the donkey’s ass??? I agree. But there are two distinct sub-sets. 1) The despicable, blackhearted bastards and 2) the useless and clueless wusses of the beltway.
Alan, we have President Obama “in there” fighting for us………..
..
..
..
Uh-oh. The “Great Capitulator”….We be screwed.
You know, I offered to drive her around the poor neighborhoods yesterday.
I think I;’ve changed my mind. I’d rather drive OVER her.
Your thoughts????? I value your opinion.
As Churchill said of Chamberlain ” A sheep in sheep’s clothing”
Pelosi surely knows this: most people making that much money every year do not get paid wages exposed to the income tax. They would be foolish to do so. There are many ways they can get paid, through deferred salary, insurance, 0% interest loans, stock options you name it.
The Dem operative is correct, this is all just a game for them. It’s tragic that in these times, the best thing the Dems can think of doing is playing games with the lives of millions of people. But, you know, vote Democrat and stuff….
The oft-quoted numbers don’t really matter in this game. What’s more important is that Pelosi & CO. will vote to permanently extend the Bush-Obama Tax Cuts. Chances are, they’ll negotiate that $1 Million number to something even higher, in the spirit of Buy-Partisanship. This, of course, will fuel their campaign to slash away at Social Security and make us all work until we die of exhaustion.
When Democrats are attending Pete Peterson confabs in the middle of an election cycle, that’s all one really needs to know about their attitude towards the general public. This December is going to be extremely upsetting.
I don’t get that??????? But, if Churchill said it, it must be profound.
That’s Obama LLC standard tactic, bob and weave then cave to the higher amount that Nancy wants along with the other DINO’s in Congress.
I was actually kinda looking forward to the Mayan Calendar being right. Now, as that appears unlikely, the only logical solution is an uprising of the proletariat. Man…. I hate it when that happens.
Contrary to my comment in #21. Apparnetly the best solutuon is for all of us to become millionaire$$$.
The original saying is ..watch out for him he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. So it is a snark on “noodle backs”
I didn’t know they had “snark” way back then.
But thanks as always.
P.s. I’ve recruited 4 more votes for Jill.
No… there are NOT “two distinct subsets”…
They ALL belong to the exact same group… and all serve the exact same masters… their corruptors are identical.
Having a different “name” does not constitute being different… in any way… it’s a scam.
100%
There won’t be any revolt as long as the Dems are in power. They split the opposition to the policy regime into fractious groups. Hell, it’s the only thing the Dems are really any good at.
David, I’m not trying to be a professional troll, as the one you linked to most certainly is, but you DID make an error. The kind of error that a professional troll like that jackass would gleefully point out and make a big deal out of as if to show you don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s just a simple math/semantics error, but professional troll jackasses live for that shit so I hope you’ll fix it.
The semantics here make the numbers different. It says the additional revenue under Pelosi’s plan would be 43% less than under Obama’s proposal. That says it will be 43% LESS, not 43% OF Obama’s proposal. You took 43% OF Obama’s proposal, and that’s not what’s being said here.
For example, your figure of $25.8 billion is 43% OF $60 billion.
$34.2 billion is 43% LESS THAN $60 billion.
Likewise, your figure of $30.1 billion is 43% OF $70 billion.
$39.9 billion is 43% LESS THAN $70 billion.
So, it works out to them saying the new savings would be in the neighborhood of $34.2 to $39.9 billion.
It’s an easy error to make, but one trolls will jump on in a heartbeat.
Just think of it this way, 43% less means you subtract 43%. So, you have to subtract 43% from 60billion, not multiply 43% times 60 billion.
That is awesome, you will turn Texas Green. I am having success converting people as well. If Jill got as much MSM coverage as the typical boobus americanus like Sarah P. or that Pastor in NC she would be polling better than Perot did as a third party candidate.
I like your strategy that you laid out and it seems to make sense to everyone I talk to. Keep the faith.
I value you, too, so do be careful. Don’t want to lose you…Thanks.
Bottom line no matter how you play with the propsed numbers; tax revenues won’t go up much if at all and austerity is baked in the cake. We will lose jobs and services and lifestyle of the average American will continue to erode.
And another thing…
The Democrats are NOT doing what they are doing because they are “wusses”… thats just their current fake excuse… meant for consumption by easily duped Americans…
No… the Democrats are doing what they are doing for the exact same reasong the Republicans are doing what they are doing…
Because… they too are “despicable, blackhearted bastards”…
Just like the Republicans… identical.
Hey, I won’t use MY car.
It’s ALL BS…
No matter how you figure it.
BTW, Washington Post is really hitting Pelosi hard.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/nancy-pelosis-risky-pander-on-taxes/2012/05/23/gJQA1GOdlU_print.html
I find the true irony is many of the GOP citizens, who are part of average working class, do not understand that they are the ones being screwed.
Many in the South and elsewhere, FL AL, MS, TN, KY, NC, SC, TX, ND, SD, NE, MO, IA, etc, don’t make $250k and they are voting for the MILLIONAIRS.
Very confusing, except for the fact that they are against social issues!
Agree. My theory is that the upper echelons of politics and corporate governance is populated with people who have certifiable mental conditions like bipolar, paranoid narcissism, etc. THese are people making or strongly influencing decisions that affect millions of people and they suffer from inverse conscience or perverted logic or a number of equally bad conditions. This is why they seem so “despicable and blackhearted”.
That puzzles me too. I have friends and family who just don’t get it. Irrespective of the fact that some are racist, they don;t understand the economic assault on the 99% by the 1%. It’s baffling.
There’s recently been several articles that tend to confirm that. Honestly. One can google “conservative brains think different” and find several university studies worth perusing. I’m not saying it excuses them, but it explains a lot. I found it explains why two of my sisters are the way they are even though we grew up in the same household.
This is why we can’t deal with them with reason and logic. We are approaching political discourse from a point of view crazy people just don’t get; they won’t suddenly become sane because our arguments are so logical or sound. They don’t agree that the greatest good for the greatest amount of people is even a proper goal so protecting Democracy or the rights enumerated in the Constitution are not a value to them. I work with and also have family with such diagnoses and it is scary to think what they would do if they had ten or twenty billion dollars at their disposal.
I noticed that too, but thought maybe I read it wrong and didn’t want to take the time to drill into it. You have a good explanation.
now? she’s been a waste of space at best for at least 6 years. I keep wondering why in the hades a blue state like california can’t find someone to primary her backside successfully. Between impeachment, health care, bailouts, and social security I’d be hard pressed to find a redeeming quality for the former Speaker.
And, ya’ know….it didn’t used to be like this. Whatever happened to our Judaeo-Christian values? Kindness, sympathy, willingness to help others not so fortunate……honor. What ever happened to honor????
I wish they’d just let the tax cuts ALL expire.
Between that and truly ending the wars, 2/3 of the deficit would go poof.
I think the last time actual Democrats constituted the Democratic Party was during LBJ’s “Great Society”, only in terms of domestic policy, not foreign policy.
You may want to omit the “Judeo” part because the “God” of the Old Testament bears little resemblance to the “God” of the New Testament. The “God” of the Ten Commandments was a jealous and vengeful entity, whereas the Mexican guy Jesus was more of a “do unto others”, forgiving type.
Heh, and I even made the point without being potty mouthed.
I guess it IS possible. lol
EDIT: lol nevermind. Jackass. forgot about that one. I guess it really isn’t possible.
Or you could multiply 60 billion by the reciprocal of 43%, which is 57%.
Why is it so hard to let the Clinton tax rates return for everyone – and then pass the Obama tax cuts for the middle class – anyone ever hear of the GOP refusing to pass tax cuts – even if they only affect the middle class?
Why wont that happen… ?
Because the two political partys are so totally corrupt … from the inside-out… that they would never allow a real populist or someone representing the people… to get any nomination from their party.
Independent and Third Party is the only way to real change. The two corrupt partys are so totally and completely corrupt… they cant be saved…
I think what must be confronted here is that Pelosi knows better than to speak out of turn with Obama in the White House. If you want to find the source of bumping up to 1 million as the baseline, you need to look at a different house. The White House.