The ghost of the 2008 candidate Barack Obama haunted Netroots Nation 2012 in Providence, Rhode Island. He hovered over every panel — at least the 10 or so panels I attended — and pervaded the general assemblies and closing session in which Van Jones gave the final pitch for progressives not to give up.
Obama’s re-election campaign provided a short video in the closing session featuring the President addressing the conference. It was an acknowledgment that he still owed a debt to progressive bloggers and would desperately need them again.
But as we watched Obama’s short recitation of ambiguous accomplishments, carefully avoiding the most contentious failures, along with the standard caveat that there was still much more to be done, you could feel the tension in the huge hall.
There were many there who still regard themselves as loyal. But the extraordinary thing about the video was how the mixed audience reaction showed how far Mr. Obama has fallen from grace. It’s not just among the suspiciously growing group of those who now claim “I told you so,” but among those who admit they were openly hopeful four years ago that he might actually reverse the atrocities of the previous four years. They thought he understood — or was smart and honest enough to figure out — what needed to be done and was prepared to lead the effort with courage and vision. Many feel he’s shown neither, so Mr. Obama will never again be their champion.
Given the tension over how much effort progressives will make to promote Mr. Obama’s reelection, the folks at NN12 chose well when they selected Van Jones to give the closing address Saturday night. Jones was an early victim of this President’s unwillingness to protect his own allies when under attack. It was a clear signal of Obama’s tendency to trade away friends and principles to mollify rather than confront the right wing crazies that Jones sees as destroying the country. And yet despite having been betrayed, Jones remains overtly loyal, forgiving and willing to make the best argument he can for why we should all try to take the hill one more time, even though our generals and their strategic objectives are not worthy of our sacrifice.
It’s not easy to make that pitch, to concede the leader’s weaknesses and still encourage others to follow. But Jones probably did as well as one can under the circumstance. The argument is not complicated. First, you describe the alternative, the enemy, in terms that most in your audience will recognize as frightful or evil. But you have to be careful to identify an enemy that folks don’t identify with Mr. Obama.
You can’t, for example, identify the enemy as the corrupting influence of corporate power and money or ideological/ regulatory capture, lest you implicate at least half the Democratic Party and the White House you’re defending. You have to be careful how you attack the evils of letting millions remain unemployed and watching record numbers fall into poverty, lose their homes, lose their insurance and lose their dreams; you can’t remind people you’ve failed on that. The speech has to navigate a minefield of disappointments, compromised principles, tepid efforts and embarrassing results that are too often denied.
So Jones told us the enemy is the Tea Party, or more broadly, the right wing crazies in the other party, and why not? Who in that audience would defend a group so misinformed, conned and manipulated by corporate billionaires and secret fronts that fund them and whose agenda is so appalling. Few there will dispute the Tea Party/crazies would, if they took over Congress and the White House, function as a mindless wrecking crew, dismantling every worthwhile government program enacted over the last 75 years by “we the people” to form “a more perfect union.” Even the most cynical can see the dangers.
We “have to beat them,” Jones exhorted, and his audience agreed and cheered. But of course, that still leaves us disconnected from the President’s re-election. Jones needed a way to silence those who feel angry, disillusioned, betrayed. If you’ve ever seen Jones in one of these settings, you know he’s a master of ridicule, complete with facial expressions and gestures that belittle those he’s taking down. They’re all a bunch of whiners, their fee fees are hurt, they’re just selfish or naive or silly or immature. Suck it up, ya’ll, get over it, and get in line, because the enemy are barbarians.
But you can’t just do that; you can’t ignore the gulf between what supporters hoped and expected, what they were told or led to believe by Obama himself, and what he’s done. This audience knows the history; you can’t fool all of them again. So the rhetorical trick is to say, in effect, “well, nobody’s perfect, and this was really hard; what did you think?”
So after uniting to slay the Tea Party barbarians in November, the progressives’ second mission is “to hold this President accountable.” That’s it. After they fight the trench warfare necessary to get Democrats and Mr. Obama elected to the last electoral campaign he’ll ever enter, somehow they’re supposed to “hold him accountable.”
At this point, Jones was a bit vague about how that could happen after the election; he changed the subject. He closed by reminding folks about the so-called “budget cliff” and how a lot of important things could go down in December during the lame duck session. Now the twin mission became (1) win in November, then (2) get ready to fight hard in December.
We weren’t told how what we’re trying to achieve in November, other than “beat the Tea Party,” will ensure that the Democrats and this White House don’t then turn around and throw granny off the “cliff” in December through some “grand” and immensely stupid “bargain” with the deficit frauds.
Still, it was a good speech, just the thing for a crowd that needed to be picked up and told they can still make a difference and their efforts were still needed. Most everyone cheered. They could go home a bit more energized than before.
But on Sunday morning, I’m struggling to make any sense of what we were told. I’m all in for beating back the barbarians — we should always beat back the barbarians, no matter what’s happening with the Presidency – but after that, I didn’t hear a path towards fixing anything else.




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Good account. Who of the Democratic elite speaks truth to or about power. Everyone of them stops far short on calling Clinton(Pres),Obama, Pelosi, Hoyer or Reid for the duplicity that’s put the Republic in the sad state it’s in today. People with the pulpit, Jones, Gore, Maddow, Olbermann(defunct?), Schultz, Spitzer and Granholm are prime time cheerleaders for Obama, and while light years behind Fox news and the GOP propaganda machine, could still effect a movement from on-high, but won’t.
Jones is just another Obama apologist. His crippling ambition to stay ‘relevant’ to the party is what marks him as the hack that he is. Anybody with a brain can see the Democratic Party is a threat to the well-being of the people of the United States. Forget using the Evil Republicans as a tethered goat — that kind of thinking is what got us into this mess.
When the Titanic broke in half, Jones would have been right there patting the Captain on the shoulder.
Good job, good article, Scarecrow. I tried to watch the YouTube video of the Jones speech last night and I got through most of it. I think the last thing I heard was the part about the fight in December.
I agree that Jones was in a tough spot. It was evident by his hesitant speech at times and his body language. I found both of those things to be different than in previous speeches where he was clearly more comfortable and confident. He was neither comfortable nor confident during this speech. Frankly, I think it was the worst speech I have ever seen from Jones.
The mocking and ridiculing in the various whiney voices was a bit much. All I could think of was, “is that all you’ve got?” A couple of years ago a lot of us would probably have been shocked and hurt by that gig, but we’re used to it now. It’s a regular thing now and I’m so used to getting that treatment from the hyper partisans on blogs and I’m well aware that the administration has that attitude since the infamous “professional left” statements from Gibbs and other things. It doesn’t even phase me anymore, or not much, anyway. It’s nothing more than pathetic bullying.
Jones really went out of way with the ridiculing last night though. How many different voices/personas did he use to get his digs in? I think I remember at least four. I think Van Jones was given the job to do something about those damned progressives for the White House. He’s been trying to convince us that he’s really trying to build a movement with his Rebuild the Dream initiative, but he’s just another campaign hack. The Obama campaign knew from the start that they were going to thoroughly throw the progressives under the bus, so I think they figured they’d need some astroturf organization as a creative way of campaigning to us. Hell, even I almost fell for the Rebuild the Dream thing at first. But Jones is just another hack. And if he thinks his mocking schtick is going to be effective, he should probably think again.
Worst speech ever by Van Jones, and I don’t see how, given what he has to work with, his speeches are going to get much better in the next five months.
It’s amazing the degree of denial, not to mention outright lies and fraud, that persist in the Veal Pen community about Obama. They continue to deny what is fully evident to objective observers: Obama is not a progressive, never was, and never believed in or intended to do 95% of what he promised as a campaigner. The 5% he did intend was the bad stuff, like expanding the war in Af-Pak and rolling back the safety net.
A sad performance.
There are places where fighting to make sure that the Tea Party doesn’t win makes sense. But those places are not held by incumbent Democrats. And the list of Democrats who would do better is very short if only because of the money they need to raise to win. The word now is “be bought or be defeated”.
The Democrat Philosophy in the past and for the future has been and will be the saving grace for people in this country…for now it is just stalled but once the people is this country do live under the true policies of the Republican Party and the Paul Ryans, we will see the Republican Party disappear for many years to come.
Kinda tragic that he couldn’t even try to draw a distinction between Romney and Obama. And revealing.
Thanks for the report.
It is just a matter of time. The Teaparty is made up of 1950′s era people , selfish people I might add, whose lifetime is now approaching the end of the ticking clock. Once they are gone things will change because these young kids will not put up with this nonsense.
If the election is close in Florida where I live, I will vote for Mr. Obama.
This has long been my policy with sellout hold-your-nose-and-vote Dems, and it won’t change now.
My parents, who marched on Washington for civil rights and against the Vietnam war in the 60s and 70s, said the same thing. It’s a system you’re up against, and a middle class unwilling to lose its last privileges or look that system in the eye. “Pissed off” would have brought us change long ago . . . if it had any real change in mind. The middle class are a sad and miserable buffer against change.
Looks like we get nowhere until the process itself is opened back up, somehow, at least enough for a few words to get out. Occupy with focus on free speech, rights of assembly and petition, etc., as causes in themselves. In other words, back to the very basics.
Surely all those good, liberal, soft-shoe-wearing Democrats gathering later this summer would understand and sympathize.
Obama’s re-election campaign provided a short video in the closing session featuring the President addressing the conference. It was an acknowledgment that he still owed a debt to progressive bloggers and would desperately need them again.
How’s it feel to need?
The tea party is (of course) not the problem. This is so sad. There was such a promise 4 years ago. And the incompetent Obama squandered it. Now it will be tens or more years for it to be there again.
What a load. Oh, the Valiant Warrior Obama tried and fell short. Now, Jones implores the faithful to once again pick up the banner and advance on the enemy. Horse-shit. He’s nothing but a boot-licking hanger-on. He was given a public butt-fucking and doesn’t utter a word in protest, faithful lackey that he is. Now he’s encouraging everyone to bend over and take it like a man once again. Good luck with that, pal.
So the choice is the crazies on the Right or the smiling snake-oil salesman on the Left. Either way, you lose. Here’s a novel idea: Don’t participate. That way, the whole rotten mess can burn down like it so richly deserves. What’s better, a quick end or the death of a thousand cuts? Fuck ‘em both, they have to catch me first.
Your stereotype of who is in the Tea Party movement is not helpful to understanding what is a complex grassroots phenomenon that has been astro-turfed both by political, NRA, and religious lobbyists.
Never underestimate the public sentiment that agrees with them. Overestimating progressive power and underestimating the power of reactionaries is a disease that has plagued the progressive movement since World War II.
There are also a lot of sixties hippies whose lifetime is approaching the end of the ticking clock (moi, for example).
We must stop thinking generationally and having the illusion that things will be OK without our effort. (That is a generic, not a personalized response to your comment.)
The Demomcratic establishment wants us to focus on the Tea Party and people like FDL’s TBogg are happy to oblige. I don’t spend a minute a week thinking about the Tea Party. I worry about how to get those who actually have power to use it in the interest of working families. Like they didn’t do in Wisconsin. Van Jones has no answers for that.
I think what you are asking is in short supply these days. Once you step out with the message, well, you step out, gone, irrelevant.
Your words ring true with me. I had the sad duty of driving a neighbor to the Local County Welfare Office, so she could apply for Food Stamps. While she filled out her application, I went out to stand in the sun. And the crowd of young people waiting for the bus, while discussing their welfare situation was a good sized one – maybe nine or ten young people on Food Stamps or AFDC.
They were all talking politics when I got to that spot in the sun. And they were describing how they won’t bother to vote come November.
The nation saw a 62.5% turnout in November 2008. I doubt we will see more than 55%, if that, come this next election.
These young people are rural young adults. They lack the education that would have come to them had their parents had the means of sending them to the best schools. They didn’t have a lot of connections to help them get a job in a very troubled economy. (Unemployment in rural Northern Calif. stands at 18% .) The one bright spot in the economy here was the medical marijuana clinics -which helped not just those needing medical marijuana, but also the local business real estate community, and even local newspapers. Obama’s DOJ opened my county to a world of hurt.
Now these local newspapers lack ad revenue, as they have been threatened with trouble from IRS and DEA should they continue to take ads for clinics or for doctors who espouse the medial marijuana line.
Anyway, sorry to be long winded, but if poorly educated young adults now see through Obama, with open eyes, and aren’t going to vote, then those with more education should all wake up and smell the coffee.
Netroots = Frauds.
Netroots sold thier souls to a bunch of crooked politicians calling themsleves “democrats”. Their loyalty and ONLY purpose is to get those crooked politicians elected… no matter what the cost.
Netroots are NOT progressives… they are sellouts… cowards.
I’ve been thinking for some time now that the Tea Party has a heck of a lot more popular support than we like to attribute to them. In my own small corner of the universe I know several people who are far from extreme but think the Teas have a good message, usually meaning the gov can’t get things right. I mean does anyone think dodd frank and the ACA are great pieces of effective legislation?
so basically its the same line the dems have been feeding people for a decade. GOOD GOD VOTE FOR US…THE ALTERNATIVE IS UNTHINKABLE…. still no reason to vote FOR them. Just voting againsts republicans…
lol and its hard to believe they even still do that worthless Netroots. Its never accomplished anything, blogs are no longer even really relevant. Its all so 2004.
And not to insult anyone personally , but I happened to see pix of the event. Its no wonder I find DKos so dippy as the average age of the attendees seems to be mid-50s. Its no wonder that site is nothing but boomer emo circlejerking
Jones is wrong, of course, as others have said. We have met the enemy and he is Obama, DLC. Even the Black Agenda Report knew that back in May, 2008 and we should have known it too.
So Obama took us, but we wanted to get taken and didn’t use good judgment. As Ted Rall, the cartoonist, says: “We the People weren’t lied to. We lied to ourselves, both about Obama and the two-party system. We voted when we ought to have revolted.”
This fiscal cliff thing angers me. We are told we want higher taxes on the rich, not the middle class. But we will keep the bush tax cuts. It is all a freaking game. And then to close the imaginary deficit gap, we will cut the safety net. Infuriating would be a better word. I should worry about the teas?
There are so many tells in his speech, but this one kills. How does one hold a politician accountable after he’s won his last election?
Van Jones is a pseudo-progressive poseur, if he’s not capable of at least being honest about what Obama’s next four years really mean for all of us.
Did anyone mention the poverty and unemployment situation and what to do about it?prolly not. Gotta get the tea party first.
You are always better off with the enemy that you know is an enemy, than with the enemy that you think is a friend.
You would at least think Obama would come out with a very strong progressive message. He doesn’t even do that.
Wall Street would spank him really hard and make him cry.
I thought this was supposed to be a conference of progressive bloggers.
I guess I was misinformed.
So, as I was reading your (excellent) post, I found myself thinking that Jones was just a better man than I….Then I watched his speech. I made it to the point where he was talking about how our parents and grandparents risked their lives for real change, and thought about scarecrow’s experience in Chicago.
That was a really shocking read.
Someone needs to tell ol’ Van that people ARE losing their lives and liberties BECAUSE of the man he seeks to get us to vote for in November. Reading about the police brutality at the OWS and NATO rallies makes me wonder what kind of people we have leading us. Reading about the so-called “leaks” about how people in other countries are targeted for death tells me exactly what they are.
To actively seek to have such reelected would only make us complicit in our own downfall, and I am just not enough of a “good German” to comply with such a request.
I had a much higher opinion of the man before I saw this. That just looked to me like Hannah Arendt’s “banality of evil” personified, and I want nothing to do with it, come what may.
Thanks for the update.
I struggle with the Obama topic daily. I have long dismissed him as a Progressive choice, his national security abuses are appalling, in many ways worse than Bush-Cheney. His half-stepping in areas of unions, public option, SS defense, women’s issues, LGBT issues. Worse, his no-stepping (as in nada) in pursuit of banksters and Bush-era criminals.
But, here’s the rub: I can’t bear the thought that Koch and the hard-right media/billionaires and corporatists will have won. The thought that they can simply purchase a kingdom of serfs (with the votes of serfs) then change the rules of the road and abolish democratic processes terrifies me. If Koch/Romney/Goldman/Fox win in November (WH + Congress) we’re talking France before 1789, the Golden Age of USA. Minus a well-organized and committed proletariat.
I see if akin to absolute rule of the First Estate (plutocrats = aristocracy) and the Second Estate (right wing churches and conservative repression = pope). In 24 hours they’d be changing the rules of the road, pushing through legislation and stripping voting rights and assets from the rest of us.
I see no nationally-recognized option to Obama who’d stand a chance. We may be stuck with him in November, just to keep the opposition from reaping the rewards of their cabal. If $$$ succeeds, that is the last election they’ll need to fund. Cuz they’ll run the whole show.
Aren’t our leaders supposed to fight for us? Or at least lead us in the fight? The Democrats want us to vote for them and not complain when they sell the country down the toilet. What a deal.
I heard Van Jones talk over at Ian Masters website last week. Same “You guys are quitters.” rant. Seems like he is overlooking a whole lot of negatives which have happened since January 2009. Like the New Year’s Eve massacre that is the NDAA act: Here. or how you can get detained without being charged for a crime, then kept indefinitely w/o recourse to a courtroom and a trial.
In short:
No one can save Obama from the Tea Party because no one can hide what Obama has done.
… which, I am very sure, is fine by him.
Obama will bask in the glow of a job well done as he retires to a life of comfort amidst praise by his peers.
Fortunately, I live in West Virginia, a state that Mr. Obama is sure to lose (again), as did Dukakis, Gore and Kerry. His campaign has made it clear that they do not give a crap about winning here, and as far as I know his organization consists of maybe one or two people.
This “strategy” is based on one of his basic pieces of philosophy “If you are not sure you can win, don’t even try because it makes you look weak.” (I guess its better to be weak than to look weak.)
Anyhow, I say that this is fortunate for me because, if he doesn’t care about my vote, I won’t trouble myself to give it to him. I will feel no guilt, and I retain the right to complain all I want. The Democrat party is responsible for both the undemocratic filibuster and the undemocratic “winner take all” electoral system that has made my vote meaningless.
Why should I waste two hours of my time (like I did in 2008)standing in a hot elementary school gym waiting to vote for somebody who is working against me? If the bankers want him, let them elect him.
Good. It has to come to this, that the empty promises have become apparent to most.
There will always be the faithful, recognition is never 100%.
We’re are collectively getting past denial to resignation. Following that is acceptance and then, and only then, can we begin to come together with a plan.
Who the leader is to be, when the leader will emerge, and from what walk of life I do not know. I do know we will need leadership in depth, because the 1% will not surrender their gains without much bloodshed, including eliminating effective leaders.
The youth know this. They are not fooled, they are the Facebook generation.
Occupy has it correct. Have no leader, hence no target.
Got news for ya, Sunshine:
We have rule by the Kochs now.
Period.
Exactly what are you trying to put off by enabling Obama’s treachery and lies one more time?
The first thing the second estate you identify will be to eliminate the first estate you identified.
They’ll want the money.
Greed has no limits.
Many of those uneducated youths never bothered to vote – ever. Never registered. Never voted. Rural uneducated youths aren’t big on voting. They aren’t the ones that propelled Oilbomber to victory.
(The ones that do vote, vote R, for God, Guns and Whoop Ass).
Anecdote:
Cerca 2003. Driver License Office. Small Florida beach town – 15K people. Disproportionate number of uneducated young males (age 18 to 25) that day.
“Would you like to register to vote?”
Every damn one of them turned it down.
I believe it was Tarheel Democrat who was arrested and harassed at NATO in Chicago.
ditto!!
This comic is a funny retort to Van Jones: Dan Kinch on How to end the Empire without losing your day job.
At Common Dreams.
#1 Stop Working So Hard!
#2 Stop buying stuff you don’t need…….
……
As far as Wall Street is concerned the economy is as Obama slipped up and said. — Just the way they want it. How could they ask for greater profits and percentage of GDP? High unemployment = cheap labor and more control over workers. They have no motive to make things better for the nation as a whole.
If Obama had stayed in touch and interacted with his 2008 grassroots organization throughout this time, his lack of support wouldn’t come as such a shock and he wouldn’t be as desperate.
I suppose all those “centrists” he’s been courting and the bipartisan Republicans can fill the slack.
You assume that the erosion of our civil liberties would be slowed by a Republican victory. That is a hazardous assumption to make. That might cause the erosion of civil liberties to be accelerated. Especially with a triumphalist Republican Congress and a compliant Supreme Court.
The moral choices are not easy or without risk.
Sorry, I just cannot get the appeal of the slow bleed.
The fact that he co-opted it into the DNC and let Tim Kaine kill the movement during the health care debate is instructive about the authenticity of the Democratic appeals for grassroots participation.
It is slow. That’s it’s only advantage. There is some time to build a countering movement before the door slams shut.
And that movement currently exists in several hundred places across the US and is working on changing the political culture that underlies the failure of our electoral system.
Dems have succumbed to the “fear” as much as Tea Parties have. They are afraid of different things but the fear is what’s driving them. Hard to believe that’s happening in America.
No, I assume only that the usual actors are going to be seeking their usual ends. If the same ends are in view by both legacy party actors, why give either of them my mandate? Voting for the Greens up ticket may not be a politically viable strategy at the moment, but then few movements start out big. You have to start somewhere, and why not start with someone that you can actually stomach?
I streamed Jones from home yesterday while he was speaking. He didn’t motivate me to do anything.
Personally, it was over for me when O voted for FISA after he secured the dem nomination last round. I held my nose and voted for him though I was tempted to leave it blank. I was flamed even here quite a bit when I reminded people that O was not the messiah and would disappoint us often. So I stopped commenting pretty much after being one of the really active members of this community back in the day.
At this point we seem to be faced with “choices” that range between the betrayer-in-chief (for those who originally had faith) and the DCCC’s and DSC’s conservadem corporate sell-outs and the Tea Baggers with their corporate know-nothing empty suit.
On the one hand, back when W was in office at least the dems (some of them) put up a fight. Since the corporate takeover of the dems, we have watched as one liberal constituency after another has been run over by the Obama bus. We saw that coming in the last cycle when they dismantled the effective 527′s we had built. and the liberals have effectively been silenced. As has the rule of law.
The only constituency that has had any satisfaction is the GLBTQ activists. They succeeded because they seriously threatened to cut off support and money. Big time. That seems to be the only language the dems understand. Votes and money. Quite simple, actually.
On the other hand we have bat-sh*t crazies being bankrolled for the trifecta.
What to do.
Catch-22; Groundhog Day; Kafka;
Go back and read Sinclair Lewis’ 1935 book “It Can’t Happen Here.”
It has happened. Even worse, Lewis didn’t anticipate the frying of the planet.
We are screwed no matter what we do.
Until the progressive groups flat out threaten to withhold support, votes, and money, no one is going to listen to us.
And even if we do, they still may not.
‘Tis a conundrum.
So much for “hold him accountable”.
Fool me once…
Thanks! The memory is the first thing to go. Or so they tell me. :)
And someone needs to tell Colin Powell that the information in his UN presentation was an outright lie (and that is why they resorted to cartoons).
Typical brainwashing victim…
Obama works for and is loyal to the 1%… he’s one of them.
The majority of those who continue to defend the actions of Obama, even when confronted with the facts of his hypocrisy, find it necessary to rationalize their support because to do otherwise would be to admit their lack of intellectual integrity. If these people would admit the truth they’d have to face the devastating reality that they were wrong and it would cripple their belief system.
I don’t usually try to buttonhole strangers in parking lots, but I just returned from the market where I saw a vehicle with the bumper sticker:
For Obama then…
For Obama now
The driver was about to get into his car. I said to him (very politely), “Excuse me, I noticed your bumper sticker. I was wondering if you can tell me how you square the Obama of “then” to the Obama of “now” given what he’s done while in the Oval Office.”
The guy looked at me and said, “F**k you.”
Thanks for this great article, Scarecrow.
Speaking of fear.
Obama could still use the JD against Wall Street to instill a little fear.
Vote for Greens where the can either win or get enough to pass state balloting rules for party slates. This varies much from state to state.
The same is true for any third party. I don’t see progressives unifying around Greens to have a large coalition – too many fragmented socialist this and socialist that and other progressive parties.
And none of them have a persistent local infrastructure that has been strengthened by wins on the local and state level. Aiming for the top all the time has weakened the progressive movement.
I can no longer watch or listen to Van Jones. I delete at once any mail that comes from him.
These actors, these poseurs, these ambitious, polished young men, (they seem to be mostly though not all , men) Cory Booker, Van Jones, Gavin Newsom….please.
If enough of us voted for Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson it would destroy the lesser evil play they use every election
It’s not going to happen overnight…
The 1% will not give up the corruption without a fight.
But the 99% will have to fight… we can’t continue this cowardly behavior [netroots]… and we cant continue to vote for crooked Democrats and crooked Republicans… and then wonder why nothing changes.
Why would they change…?… brainwashed voters are REWARDING them for what they are doing.
That’ll teach you to be polite. :)
I guess Van Jones didn’t win over the “firebaggers” huh?
So what’s next?
As I’ve said more than once.
They used to say Lieberman is with us on everything but the Iraq – Afghanistan wars.
Obama is with us on everything but… no he’s not! He’s not with us on anything. He’s just the lesser of two evils.
His Senate vote for the retroactive immunity for the telecommunications industry following his impassioned speech against its passage was the reveal for me. Then I found that he’d requested Joe “Israel” Lieberman to be his mentor in the Senate. That was enough for me and I refused to vote for him. I couldn’t vote for the other Republican(Corporate) candidate either. That’s when I finally realized I’d been disenfranchised.
And yet another “the world will end of the Republicans win the WH and Congress” post.
Really??
Do you happen to know how many people said that same thing in 2002 when they went for the Senate so as to finalize control of Congress?? Or said the same thing when they were all up for re-election in 2004 (OMG, another 4 years of George W Bush AND the R’s in charge and this country is DONE!).
The R’s controlled all branches of government from 2003 until 2007, yet it wasn’t until the D’s controlled the White House and Senate that a bill was passed and signed into law ending habeaus corpus.
Yeah, those Republicans are scary alright.
Is that a joke? Issue a faux threat to his puppeteers. I don’t think so unless they give their approval first.
The world will end either way.
More of a shakedown for campaign contributions.
That kind of reminded me of the business plan of the South Park Underpants Gnomes. In that episode, it was:
Step 1: Collect underpants
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: Profit
Here, it seems to be:
Step 1: Re-elect Obama
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: Recovery
I realize Van Jones added in some stuff about needing a “movement” to “hold Obama accountable” in December after re-electing him, but as was said, how that’s supposed to work was left a bit of a mystery when nothing has held him accountable when he did need to worry about re-election.
I don’t know if anyone has noticed those Obama web ads popping up that brag about how low he has kept federal spending during this economic environment, but he boasts about how low he has kept growth in federal spending. 6.8% under Reagan, 5.4% under Bush 1, 3.5% under Clinton, 7.7% under Bush 2… and 1.4% under Obama. So it’s not like he’s out there saying the Congressional Republicans are blocking the economic stimulus plan that’s required in this terrible economic environment that he really wants to enact, he’s bragging about the current course of action that’s distributing economic pain.
So the ideaa that Obama is the “right President” that Van Jones posits, and just needs the “right movement” seems mysterious to me. How people are supposed to hold Obama accountable after re-electing him remains a question.
In fact, it seems fairly clear to me that major decisions like the Bush Tax Cuts, Catfood Commission, Keystone XL, etc etc have been shunted off to the “December” Van Jones talks about in order to avoid the possibility of accountability, because Obama will be re-elected at that point, at which point the argument will become (again) “So what are you gnnna do, vote for Sarah Palin?” And then begins the Obama push for free trade with Random Country With No Labor or Environmental Protections #79 or somewhere in order to “support American jobs”…
So much to say and I have screwed up the responses so terribly. :)
Your post (I stand corrected by JClausen) on being detained at the NATO summit really moved me. You are right about concentration on the top of the ticket having weakened the movement, but then look at all of the so called “progressive” candidates who have been such a bitter disappointment after their elections. There appears to be no right way to do it, and that is what is so frustrating.
Here in Georgia I have supported candidate after candidate that seemed to be ideal only to find that they then got zero support from the Party itself. Our Rep and Sen are quite literally jokes within their own constituencies, but nada is done to capitalize on that weakness.
I think it just might be better to start with a clean slate. Let the Whigs do what Whigs do.
Ka-Pow…!
“If enough of us voted for Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson it would destroy the lesser evil play they use every election.”
Exactly…
Wasn’t it a Congress under “Democratic” control that ceded war powers to “W” and the executive branch with the excuse by Tom Daschle of the need for expediency? I think so.
Yep.
And letts not remember his “compromise” executive order in answer to Sutpak. Sold out women in one swell foop.
Selise, once upon a time, had a long list of the crimes W. had committed with a little help from other FDL folks. I think it was up around 200 and counting but I forget. I bet we could make such a list for Obama- in fact I would imagine much of the list could be duplicated.
How did we get this deep in the whole? (Rhetorical question, of course)
Hope
Change
F that.
Word on the street this will be Obama’s October Surprise, the indictment of a major bank figure on criminal charges
True but you have to keep voting Green as TD points out above. We need to look at Germanys Greens and Pirate Party. It can be done.
There’s always Harold Ford.
How dare you question an Obama worshiper’s support, and on a Sunday to boot? I guess you’ll know better the next time.
Even better make it one of the Kochs.
Big whoop.
To little too late.
This DoJ is going to do such a thing?
Shirley, you jest.
Yes. It took a “Democrat” to not only legalize the crimes of “W”, but to enhance them beyond the point that even Bush/Cheney were unwilling to go.
I agree with you, nothing happens overnight. Had we not bought the incrementalist BS that caused us all to keep voting for corporadems after Clinton royally screwed us with his trade deals, deregulation and cutting of the social safety net, we would be a lot further along in my humble view.
There just has to be some kind of threat for Dems to be held accountable, and thus far they seem to be just fine with losing elections as long as they can get some of that sweet revolving door moolah. I don’t care to vote for interns, seems like the Democratic Party has not gotten that message even though it has been credibly expressed ever since the 2000 elections.
I’m voting for the Greens this year, and anyone who has a problem with it can just explain to me why it is better to elect someone who has unilaterally decided that he has power to kill off or “disappear” anyone (and their families) who annoys him.
If an alternative candidate ever got even 6-7% it would FREAK all the sellouts out. It would change the thinking of a lot of people who voted lesser evil and then we have a Beginning.
Jones is just a stooge working for a gig in the dem biz.and he is either lying to us now or he was living a lie when involved with the Ella Baker Center .The dems contaminate and betray any and all progressive iniatives .O fears promoting a large stimulus because he might be smeared as a liberal while teabaggers demand a virtual loyalty oath to promote ‘severe’ conservatism .This hideous dichotomy is the work of lesser-evil dems .
Another attempt at humour?
I think that Hugh over at Corrente has the updated list. Haven’t read it for a while; it just makes me angry and the decision to not support him was made years ago anyway.
As fake as fake gets.
You have to ask?
I saw somewhere that Bush told O that whenever he saw that portrait in the WH, he could now think “what would George do”; said with a smirk, no doubt.
If history is any guide, I guess he was serious.
Aman
Agree…
I would only disagree with the word “threat”. It has to be real… people have to actually change their behavior… real change.
A “threat” is useless. REAL change is voting for candidates OTHER than corrupt Democrats and corrupt Republicans… and continueing to vote for them.
I will NEVER vote for a Democrat or Republican again as long as I live… and that not a threat… thats a fact.
The two party system has failed. Both parties are totally and hopelessly corrupt to the core… there is no saving either party.
That’ll be fun to watch… the remaining obots inevitable realization that due to “unforeseen circumstances” the arrest actually solves nothing, means nothing, fails to address the incredible systemic fraud and…
… worse yet…
… lays the groundwork for the legislation that gives retroactive immunity to the rest of the banksters for their fraud jn return for a small pittance and a muttered “mea culpa”.
(… said pittance to actually be paid for by bank customers, naturally)
I think you’re right. Selise stopped paying for the web site we originally had it on and Hugh took it and posted it. Good memory.
So for those of you who were at NN, how prevalent was the Kool-aid drinking there? Impossible to tell via web casts.
Frankly, if things keep going the way they seem to be, a colony in Guyana may not be a bad idea. . . .
Every time O does another one of his sell-outs I get e-mails from Jill Stein. She’s looking better all the time.
Book Salon up with Linda Hirshman’s Victory: The Triumphant Gay Revolution hosted by Todd Gitlin
Who does Van Jones think he’s kidding?
After he sat by Ed Rendell on ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopoulos (earlier today), and didn’t even “bat an eye” when Rendell announced that “we can do Simpson Bowles . . ..”
And, Stephanopoulos actually cut him off, asking Rendell, “but after the election?”
To which Rendell replied, “After the election, clearly.”
This is beyond bold. Apparently, President Obama and the national Democratic Party machine has NO FEAR of any pushback from the left, if they would allow one of the Democratic Party’s most prominent surrogates to make a proclamation like this, on a national Sunday news program.
I am close to being alarmed by such “in your face” rhetoric. Is anyone else concerned that Rendell is basically floating a trial balloon, implying that Social Security and Medicare are indeed on the table to be “negotiated away” in exchange for tax reform?
Blue
I have long feared that you are right about that. I want to have a bumper sticker made up saying “Let Whigs be Whigs”.
Let’s see who honks. I think it would be pretty popular…with people who know what the Whigs were, anyway.
we have to look forward, for pete’s sake.
“Aiming for the top all the time has weakened the progressive movement.; concur and well said.
It also just buttresses the insanity of ‘executive privilege’ and ‘imperial presidency’.
Is Obama’s middle name Judas?
Concerned? It has been a certainty for so long that I cannot remember the last time I was concerned about it. At this point I have just been waiting for the Republican Congress to recognize that they have someone saying yes all of the time and their platform has been usurped.
Yes holey@56, and I would add that one’s belief system is intrinsic to one’s identity .I’ve noted here before that dem loyalist believe because they need to believe ,very much the same as birthers need their mythology .I think most will be hanging up their NPR fanny packs after apologizing for Hillary .
NOt to be nitpicky but,,,,,,, it was Flavr-aid, not kool-aid used in Jonestown.
Judas got a bad rap. He did what he did because it was needed in the plot.
Don’t sully Judas’ name by mixing it with Obama’s, please.
Shhhh! Not too loud. If I remember correctly, the French had a place called Devil’s Island in Guyana…I’m holding out for Guantanamo.
That seems to be where all of the fashionable “terrorists” hang out these days. :)
I never knew that.
Whatever it is, we may need lots of it one of these days. Don’t know how much of what’s coming I can take.
“Still, it was a good speech, just the thing for a crowd that needed to be picked up and told they can still make a difference and their efforts were still needed. Most everyone cheered.”; yeah, guess you were.
Actually I think it is Costa Rica where they have no army and people seem to get along. Perhaps it is time to start looking. Problem for me is I hate heat—but then again it’s heating up everywhere.
“Don’t know how much of what’s coming I can take.”; me neither as SS is my only income.
“In Exchange For” tax reform? Have you looked at Simpson Bowles? It involves tax hikes for low-income families to pay for tax cuts for the affluent. It involves cuts to SocSec and Medicare IN ADDITION TO regressive tax reform.
Never let a perfectly good disaster go to waste? I think that is exactly what is planned.
The netroots die was cast long ago by dkos who was then looking for staff.
–by kos
Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 09:19:53 AM PST
“Remember that ultimately, this is a site about the Democratic Party and elections. I’ll be looking for people who get that we’re building a movement and can help further that goal.”
“So what are the sort of traits I’m looking for? Several things: thick skins, since this isn’t a job for the faint of heart. They must be loyal to the site, the movement, and our community. They have to be dependable. While we all lose our tempers at times, being generally level-headed is important. They have to be humble. They have to understand that to the outside world, they speak for the site, and that’s a heavy burden, especially with the number of enemies this site has (on both the Left and Right), all waiting to pounce on any missteps.”
–Markos Moulitsas
You’re right. Actually, I think Republicans have known all along what he’s been offering. I suspect that when Obama failed to get his Grand Bargain last summer, he really just struck an agreement to wait until after the presidential election, so both parties could REALLY SLAM the American People with “reform.”
Blue
….On the one hand, Cost Rica is gorgeous and has some mountains where it is cool at night.
On the other hand they tend to have huge land slides up in the mountains whenever a hurricane comes through.
On the other hand….
Tierra del Fuego is looking pretty good right now. It is nice and cool and there are no malls to speak of. I think land prices are pretty good too!
I am “among the suspiciously growing group of those who now claim ‘I told you so’” and have been since July 2008. We warned you about Obama before the election, even before the convention, and we were told that the important thing was to turn the page on Bush by defeating McCain. While FDL went off on in futile pursuit of the mirage of the public option in healthcare, we told you from the outset the fix was in. I personally wrote about the need to start a new progressive party and did so here: Third Party? How About a First Party in July 2009. I and others were told get back to us when you start electing candidates. The vote on healthcare was a defining moment, but not for FDL. Every liberal and so-called progressive member of the House and Senate betrayed the progressive cause. Yet two years on, FDL has still not broken with the Democrats. Yes, there is a lot of criticism of Democrats, and support for Occupy, but everything is still viewed within the two party framework. Netroots Nation is a case in point. It is a false flag operation of the Democratic party. It was founded and is still largely controlled by a Democratic operative Markos Moulitsas. The speakers I heard about were all Democrats or Obamites like Jones. Why were there no speeches from non-Democratic progressive alternatives?
For those who still believe in lesser evilism, remember this. You are voting for evil, and if the last 4 years should have taught you anything it is that the lesser evil, secure in the knowledge of your support, quickly becomes the greater evil. You are voting for kleptocracy. You are voting for more of the same. Finally, remember that no one owns your vote but you. If a candidate or party can’t give good, substantial, and most importantly positive reasons for your support, if they can only say the other guy is worse, don’t vote for them. They obviously don’t want your vote, so why vote for them?
And finally to FDL in general, FDL has had no problem rejecting the Republicans and has done so for years. Why then will FDL not equally reject the Democratic party that differs from the Republicans in no substantial way? The Democrats have been shoving the lesson down the throats of progressives for nearly a decade now that you can’t be progressive and Democratic. When will FDL learn the lesson we all have been taught?
I know what you’re saying… but…
[Definition Judas: One who betrays another under the guise of friendship.]
The word is 100% appropriate.
Looks like they compromised and just had a big ol’ purge. I guess Markos’ humility went down the tubes in the face of an opportunity to lick some DLC boots.
Kind of hard to beat back the barbarians when the guy in the White House (whom we helped to flay the ass off them in 2008…) is rolling around in the sack with them.
Hugh, you raise good questions.
Makes Ecuador that much more appealing. I don’t know how you can subject yourself to the Sunday garbage programming. Ed Rendell is a certified POS who expanded the security state in PA and supported “fracking”. Enough said.
Yep, you are right. We have all been watching the tidal wave build for the last couple of years; lot of deferred angst amongst the money bags who put them in office to get on with it. The lame duck is going to be a real disaster for us all.
“Apparently, President Obama and the National Democratic Party has no fear of any pushback from the left…”
I think that has become disgustingly apparent.
But we have a golden opportunity to change that, starting right now. Let’s not waste it. :o)
Obey–
I’m well aware of ALL SIX PILLARS of “The Moment of Truth.” I’ve been screaming to the top of my lungs on so-called progressive radio, and to a lesser degree, writing that the adoption of Simpson Bowles will eviscerate the social safety net, as we know it. And, as you state, put an incredibly higher tax burden on lower and middle income Americans in order to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy AND for corporations.
That’s why I stated that I am “alarmed.” Now, the next question is (which I ask in complete earnestness)–what are we going to do about it? We can’t just sit by and accept this without some pushback, can we?
Blue
There’s a lot of people wanting to know the answers to those questions.
Obviously from the comments, progressives think Van Jones belongs in the Tea Party because he thinks voting makes a difference. And you must be honest about how Van Jones gave tremendous power to the Tea Party, so he might as well be in the Tea Party.
The true progressive gathers with other progressives to blame every politician for being corrupt, and blaming corporations as being corrupt, and then declare a strike on political participation until the Republicans in power turn over power to progressives.
I can testify to that; nothing “suspicious” about your track record. I appreciated it during the Bush Administration and still do.
Keep up the good work, it is having an effect.
FWIW http://www.ticotimes.net/ ; see “A tale of two economies”
Wow. That says it all.
I presume you thought that made sense when you wrote it. You might want to reread your magnum opus in light of reality and reassess its’ merits.
Tariq Ali wrote a book called “The Obama Syndrome – Surrender at Home War Abroad” that is worth the price just for the picture on the cover that depicts portions of Obama’s face peeling away to expose “W” underneath.
definitions often take the “conventional wisdom” rather than delve deeper in the story. The Gospel of Judas, put forth about 5 years ago showed that Judas really was Jesus’ closest confidant and was kind of in on the plot.
Yes, the conventional story paints Judas as the great betrayer. The conventional story also paints Obama as a liberal democrat.
“You would think Obama would come out with a very strong progressive message. He doesn’t even do that.”
I think that enough of us are talking about laying out of this election, that he’s probably realized that talking-the- talk won’t mean shit to us, and since he can’t walk-the-walk (even if he wanted to…, as we saw he didn’t, in his first two years, when he still had the numbers in congress…) rerunning the progressive speeches he gave to win, will get him hoots of derision from a lot of the people who were his most loyal backers in 2008. :o)
And I think that he actually DOES fear that. Politically, it would be a real hammer. I say we “swing” it. :o)
Nope… thats not what we’re saying… at all.
Not even close.
I need to look for that. I am still passing around Imperial Hubris to the conservatives of my acquaintance. I had kind of hoped not to have to point out that little has changed since to Democrats, no less. :(
Kind of off topic, but it is really nice not to feel surrounded. Thanks for the recommendation!
“If the election is close in Florida…”
As of about 10 days ago, Romney had opened up a six point lead. I still expect it will be close, but how close is the question. It’s clearly a must-win state for either one of them.
Ted Rall’s latest political cartoon is worth another look:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/ted-rall-slideshow/
Voting is useless and inconsequential. The Dem Party has been co-opted by the corporate elite. The Occupy Movement is now our only hope.
The only thing that could massively change Americans’ political myopia (blindness) is another major disaster. Sooner or later, I think this will be forthcoming.
ouch!
Oh… thats good.
“The Demomcratic establishment wants us to focus on the Tea Party and people like FDL’s TBogg are happy to oblige. I don’t spend a minute a week thinking about the Tea Party. ”
Ex. Act. Ly.
It isn’t the Tea Party going around saying it can lock me up forever without a trial, or assassinate me based upon secret deliberations on “Terror Tuesday”.
I think you are right. The sudden volte face on his actions as President over the killer Tuesday meetings from being all about his being a “strong leader” to “someone betrayed him” look suspicious. I think he was caught by surprise; it didn’t work out this way before.
There just couldn’t be a bigger difference in official reactions after this episode and the Bin Laden killing. I guess that may be because this is an election year?
Be careful Blue, we don’t want to lose you to a drone attack. Remember to remove the battery from your cell phone so you’re difficult to track. You’re already working on the only viable remedy for this problem, as we’ve discussed before.
the good news is that the Occupy movement was wise enough to not let the dems co-opt it. We’ll see if it can resurrect itself in some form.
I’m surprised that TBogg hasn’t brought his his fire and brimstone pro-Obama act to this thread. Probably too busy working on more pap for the front page.
Great to see you, hbb.
I know–not sure why I subject myself to it, but I guess somebody’s got to do it!
And yes, Ecuador DOES look better every day. My “link” does not work (for some reason) since I changed virus software, so let me just tell you the name of a video that I think you’d enjoy seeing.
It’s with Paul Jay, of The Real News Network. The title of the video is: “Is Ecuador’s Economic Policy a Non Neo-Liberal Alternative?”
Apparently, President Correa (an US educated economist) has done the opposite of austerity there, and the economy is absolutely BOOMING, for EVERYONE. Makes us very hopeful that there’ll be a better day, and that the decision to relocate is a wise one. The video’s about 7-10 minutes, I believe. Please check it out.
Blue
Disconnect from reality much?
Voting does make a difference.
My voting for someone who’s neither Obama nor Romney will make difference. Not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless :)
Y’see, unlike Obama apologists, I don’t believe in letting the terrorists win.
Nope… thats the cowardly attitude.
Americans were given the most powerful weapon… ever… in the fight against corruption… our VOTE.
The problem is that voters have been willingly handing over their most powerful weapon… to a bunch of corrupt crooks.
That cant go on any longer. As you can see from the thread… a lot of people know that cant go on any longer.
I agree with the ideas that OWS supports… but the movement changes NOTHING.
VOTING changes everything. That takes active participation by voters.
Blue Onyx -
God knows. If Obama wins they’re going to try to pass legislation to the wrong side of Simpson Bowles, and they’re going to do it quickly, during the lame duck session, due to some *emergency* like the debt ceiling, or the fiscal cliff. So there won’t be time after the election to get people organized to resist it. And all the internal infrastructure of the Democratic party seems to be behind doing this deal. Labor is shot. The AARP for some reason buys in.
If either of those – Labor or the AARP can be flipped, then the deal won’t go thru. I don’t know how possible that is.
Or alternatively, one has to *hope* that Obama loses. Because then the *crisis* situation regarding fiscal legislation goes away.
What a fucked up situation…
Off topic—
I did beta testing for a great blog reader for the iPad, Blogshelf II. If any of you like keeping up with your faves in a really readable format, please give it a try. I hardly go to web sites themselves any more—much easier and cleaner to read on Blogshelf. It’s a freebie, donations welcome to the developer.
I’d have stopped reading blogs long ago without it.
end of commercial.
back to topic—
So, being the creative, concerned, well informed citizens that we are, what’s next?
But if he loses they pass it all after Jamuary. You got it right, fucked up………
no matter which way it goes, it’s a feature not a bug.
Shock Doctrine—we’re living it.
That’s a good one, lakota.
Blue
I think Tbogg had all he wanted of getting his blogger-hiney racked.
If he jumps back in again, calling critics of Obama a “fucking idiot” and telling them: “Blow me!” won’t get it; he’ll have to answer some specific questions about what he believes Obama will do if he’s re-elected.
Constantly shreiking about what Romney will do, or about his wife’s conspicuous consumption, or anything else out of the “Obama sucks less!” closet, has worn thin.
Thing is… I dont see you offering any ideas on how to actually stand up to anyone… you’re just asking a bunch of retread, empty questions… the answers to which changes nothing.
Being “alarmed”… changes nothing. “Pushback”… changes nothing.
No longer voting for corrupt Democrats and corrupt Republicans… CHANGES EVERYTHING.
tambark–
It has been. It was just shocking to me that Rendell had the unmitigated gall to be so “in your face” about it.
What opportunity are you referencing? Voting third party, maybe?
Blue
Ditto, hbb.
Blue
It’s not a promising season, so what I said upthread: we sharpen our tools. It’s hard to get a message through a (blyecch!) “free speech zone.”
You got that right, Obey.
I will write in “Brewsky” (the black lab across the street) before I cast another vote for ANY Democrat (I’m in such a red state, that all elected Democrats are conservatives, anyway).
I am convinced that we will actually suffer greater cuts to the social safety net if Obama is reelected. Democrats would at least have to push back a little for appearances sake, if Mitt Romney is leading the fight to “reform” Social Security and Medicare.
I’ve long ago decided to vote third party (most likely Jill Stein, because from what I read, Rocky Anderson is big on balancing budgets, and probably more prone to favor austerity measures).
I know that petitions are useless, but it seems that Rendell’s proclamation should be met with some form of resistance, for Pete’s sake. You’re probably right–we’re done for.
Blue
bgrothus–
You’re right, it says enough–we’re cooked.
Blue
Sorry for the typo–tanbark.
hey, independentvoternews–
I don’t know what to do, sorry. That’s why I’m asking.
I am certainly NOT going to vote for ANY Democrat again. That much I decided a couple of years ago–so we’re on the same page on that one.
But it seems to me that we need to get the word out about Rendell’s statement. Believe it or not, there are all kinds of people who’ve never heard about Bowles Simpson, etc., etc.
Blue
Excuse Me! I am not stereotyping but researching. I work at an airport and for everyday that I work, I talk to people about the issues of the day. I talk to people from all over the US not just in my area and I assure you that from what I have found out in my observation within the last year, the teaparty folks tend to be from the 50′s. They are Social Security Recipients who are gobbling up all the Medicare and Social Security they can while outwardly denying everyone else. They say they “deserve the government benefits”. Even though their kids might work in Government and many times even them, they say that there is too much government in our lives and they want it reduced. They are the biggest hypocrites you could ever have a conversation with and I repeat….they are the 50′s era.
hbb–
LOL! Thanks, I needed that bit of levity.
You do the same. Talk of expatriation is probably not particularly popular with this Administration.
Blue
NO… we dont need to get the word out about BS…
We need to get the word out about the total and complete corruption of our entire government and and about the total and complete corruption of the two corrupt political parties running the country.
BS and ALL the rest in FAKE POLITICAL THEATER… in means nothing… because crooks are running our government. NOTHING will change until that changes. Thats the issue that needs to get the word out. It’s the only issue that really matters.
Geez, what a load of b.s. whiny crying. It’s almost like a bunch of Republicans.
So, some of you went to a convention of a small minority of the Left in America and you found you disagreed with them and that you were an even tinier tinier minority of that group. Now you know why there’s no mass movement to support your positions and why you’re not in the majority in Congress.
This is why Obama doesn’t jump and twitch every time you ask a question or complain about something he’s done or hasn’t done or might do or whatever.
Obama is governing all of America. He isn’t a dictator who can force things through Congress and he has to deal with the realities. There are uber-rich who worry about their multi-million dollar bonuses and who build $55,000 elevators for their cars and there are homeless who have no hope of ever working for a wage again and there is everything in between. It’s not easy.
Maybe you should join the Green party…all 300 of you. That’ll really fly.
Not only Van Jones but that Karen Finney is another one. The Dems have the weakest represenatives speaking on their behalf it actually is embarrasing.
These are my thoughts exactly
This comment is so tone deaf, it’s hilarious.
ivn–
I agree, and I make it known everyday that I will not vote for either of our two major parties. But I disagree that we should not educate folks about major policy issues and/or legislation. Especially toxic legislation like the ACA,or a possible reform based upon the Bowles-Simpson proposal.
Blue
Thank you–we already have.
Blue
We had 8 years of GWB. That wasn’t enough? What the fuck is it gonna’ take?! Fuhgeddaboutit! ALL politicians are joined at the wallet. I just read somewhere recently, although for the life of me, I can’t remember where, the only difference between the parties are the GOP stabs you in the chest; the Dems stab you in the back. Either way, you bleed to death.
However, the comment about the “300″ was spot on.
If Van Jones is who Netroots found to give the keynote finale, then its all over for Netroots. Now, the Netroots has become an extension of this WH. I used to like Van Jones. But, that was before he became a part of this WH. Now, rather than focusing on the progressive principles (which is what Netroots should be all about), Van Jones sees his job as defending this WH.
People were pissed at GWB, but not entirely for the reasons you were pissed at GWB. In fact, probably the only thing that the majority and you agree on was that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan suck. This nation has been moving to the right since Reagan.
An Obamabot finally shows up.
OK Obamabot, so we’re not supposed to hold Democratic party politicians accountable for their ACTIONS… well… gosh darn it… because it’s a hard job.
So then that would apply to Republicans as well… wouldnt it Obamabot?
We cant hold them accountable for anyting either… according to you.
I have always said that there is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OBAMABOT AND A BUSHBOT…both serve to protect the 1% and to continue the status quo. Thats their only purpose. Obamabots and Bushbots loyalty it to the corrupt politicians they shill for… to get them elected at any cost. The country and the American people mean nothing to them.
Sorry Obamabot… my loyalty is to the American people… and the future of our country.
I have total contempt for your crooked, fake politicians.
“This nation has been moving to the right since Reagan.”…
Flat out… not true.
Another lie told by Obamabots and Bushbots.
Your take is my take-I also recoiled when I heard that. We have two enemies, and I will give nothing but resistance and rejection to both of them.
My comment @ 175 was a reply to Mark H @ 165.
MarkH:
For an Obamabot, you sure have some sense of humor.
Word. Word. Word. We were on the same page then, and we are on the same page now. I miss you, Hugh. Corrente? I’ll have to come visit.
TBogg, is that you? If so, blow me.
Seems to be another loyalist working their way through their “denial” phase.
One can only hope that they can make it through to the other side… and soon.
rc-
Respect your opinion–so it’s good to hear that you don’t think my reaction was over-the-top. I’ve understood what Bowles-Simpson was all about since I first read “The Moment of Truth” in November, 2010. Still, Rendell’s bold acknowledgement of the so-called Washington Consensus was quite shocking, to me.
Hope your recovery is still going well.
Blue
The only issues that I can see where the majority of the voters may be moving left is decriminalization of marijuana and LGBT rights, and even those are questionable. Please help me out and give some more examples.
You have a keen ability to cut through the flimflam…
And get to the heart of the matter.
A salute to your wit! *g*
here is a thought for Van…why don’t we vote progressive third party? Why don’t we build a true progessive movement?and here is another thought Van…if the Tea Party did not hate Obama so much that they would never work with Barry would have had his grand bargin and we would have been screwed out of SS Medicare…sorry Van we know the GOP we don’t know the Dems..Clinton screwed us and so is Obama
What I’ve been saying for months, is that we have no effective way of holding these asshats accountable. We primary the bastards and we lose in the general. When we lose in the general we end up losing the Congressional majority, and when we lose that we lose the chairmanships and our already weak influence becomes even weaker (and by “we”, I mean the real lefties). And, it is the low information “Independent” voter, who are really moderate Republicans (and have been since they elected Saint Ronnie), that do this to us almost every single time. Since the early 80′s the Democrats have been moving rightward, because that is how they get elected. The further to the left the philosophy the more difficult to gain or keep a seat, with very few exceptions. When great powers decline, that is the usual progression.
Ol’ Van ain’t been the same since he was runned over by the Obama for President campaign bus in 2009.
*sigh*
Good idea, but it has to be started from the bottom–school boards, city councils, etc. Exactly the way the cons did it–except for the advantage that they had billionaire backing for the build-up.
In 2008 Obama ran on progressive ideas including building prosperity “from the bottom up, not the top down” (as he said over and over during his campaign), green energy, green jobs and caring for the environment, relying more on diplomacy and less on war, expanded access to health care, ending the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy. He won the election with 52.9% of the vote and an historic popular vote total.
As far as polling on policies I looked at a number of standard polls (mainstream media and polling organizations) about a year ago. This wasn’t a scientific analysis of the polls, but I looked at a fair number around social safety net programs, taxing and spending priorities, regulation and found a lot of support for progressive policies. Here are some links – again these are just a couple of samples from an informal survey, so FWIW. You can research further I’m sure.
Spending and safety net
http://people-press.org/2011/07/07/public-wants-changes-in-entitlements-not-change-in-benefits/
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/FoxNewsPoll.pdf
See questions 14-15 on spending and safety net
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/01/25/rel2d.pdf
See question 16
Priorities
Note combined jobs and economy is 53% compared to all the other stuff hyped in the media
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/06/30/business/20110630poll-full-results.html?ref=business
Financial regulation
http://www.responsiblelending.org/media-center/press-releases/archives/New-Poll-Demonstrates-Broad-Support-for-Financial-Reform.html
http://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lending/policy-legislation/regulators/memo-WallStreetReform-f-071811-_1_.pdf
63% want more government oversight of financial companies
74% want a single agency for consumer financial protection
66% want Wall Street held accountable
Only 23% say financial reform is a job killer and will hurt the economy
No, it hasn’t. That’s the myth the naysayers want everyone to believe.
Nearly every poll done on single payer healchare shows a majority of Americans support it. 2/3 of Americans supported the lefty idea of a public option in the right wing health care bill we did get.
Every time a poll is taken on raising taxes on the wealthy to help those worse off, it garners support.
And in 2008 President Obama ran the most progressive campaign in the last two decades and won, by today’s standards, in a landslide.
This country isn’t moving right, it’s moving left. But, those that VOTE have been moving right for years. It’s not a matter of more Americans becoming right, it’s a matter of more and more Americans realizing that there is no real significant difference between the two parties and thus why vote at all.
When the percentage of voters goes up, the result goes left.
This has been true for quite some time.
I think you can say the a majority of voting Americans are right of center, but I think you can also say that a majority of Americans of left of center.
If those of us that haven’t given up on voting can kickstart a new, third option, there’s a huge bank of votes out there that can be gotten.
If you still think America is moving right, consider this. We’ve been governed in a right wing way for some time now, and that keeps moving right, and was, at the time, epitomized by the 8 years of W and The Dick.
And what was it that got more Americans out to the polls and actually involved in the process and excited even??? It was the promise of CHANGE.
If this country were so right wing as you claim, they would not be begging for change the way they are.
This country is ready for change, wants change, as proven by Obama’s and the Democrat’s 2008 victory, are ready for a change that moves LEFT.
Heh, I see I type too slow.
This excellent response wasn’t up when I started my wall of text, or I would’ve saved myself the trouble.
Well said and thank you.
And I think I owe you a drink.
1) Public Option… a progressive championed idea…
65% of ALL Americns favored… including majorities of Democrats, Independents and Republicans… yes thats right even a majority of Republicans favored it.
2) Cracking down on Wall Street and reining in big banks… progressive championed ideas…
70% of voters in favor
3) How to balance the budget…
61% favor raising taxes on the rich [you know a progessive idea]
4) Cutting Medicare to balance the budget…
96% against [ you know medicare- progressives defending it]
5) Cutting Social Security to balance the budget…
97% against [you know social security-progressives defending it}
Claiming the country has gone right is a complete lie and a total fabrication by our corrupt government and their corrupt media shills.
It’s a 1% scam all the way.
The problem with the statistic (52.9% voted for Obama), is that, when you look at Obama winning by only a couple of voters out of every hundred that margin is actually pretty damn slim, which shows just how divided this country is–the fact that so many were actually o.k. with a “President Palin”. I have zero faith in the wisdom of the voters, on any subject.
OldFatGuy… Marym in Il…
You’re both very cool.
Keep speaking out.
Speaking of the post-election lame duck session where all the mischief is likely to play out:
I think now is the time for Jane to come off the bench and organize an effort to resist these moves in that time period. Somebody needs to be organizing resistance now on the theme of “forget the elections; focus on what happens immediately afterward”. We need to be focusing on what we can do (gotta be somethin‘) to prevent the Grand RatFucking that Prez Pinocchio has in mind from becoming a reality.
“He isn’t a dictator who can force things through Congress and he has to deal with the realities”
I agree with you! Obama is the kind of dictator that simply ignores Congress as well as the other branches of government. Obama is the Messianic Decider where if he kills you, your death is your due process proof of your own guilt of whatever it is Obama claims you did.
x2
Agree.
I tend to look more at the “security” aspects of the policies–support for Guantanamo, the Security State, pro-militarism, etc., as well as anti-environmentalism. I’m unsure whether there has been an actual growth in support for those items that you’ve mentioned, and if there has, do those folks actually vote?
Thank you, Blue. Recovery is slow but steady. Wish I could say the same about the country. Good to see you being more active, I like your voice and your instincts. ;-)
You asked for statistics showing the country was moving left, not right. Three people provided a lot of statistics. But you’re saying that doesn’t count because some people voted for Palin?
I will admit it’s a revoltin’ concept lol.
Rendell is absolutely reprehensible.
OFG, on target, as usual. There is a time to reject voices of fear. That time is now.
No, you must factor in the effect of a right-wing corporate media.
Look. You misread my comment. I said that the Philosophy of the Dems was the saving Grace….not the Dems. Are you saying that you do not believe in Social Justice? The Dems are a different breed today but I still believe in my neighbor. So bitch about the two parties …….what is the alternative. I don’t hear anyone coming up with any better ideas. This fall we have no one to represent us and you bet the Dems have screwed up but you wait till we get a taste of Paul Ryan.
Well, I cheated (copied from comments I made on another post) so I’ll take a raincheck on the drink for now, thanks!
The Grand Bargain will get done in the lame duck session just like in 2010 with the conversion of the Bush to Obama = Bushama Tax Cuts
OFG and marym in IL and several others (too numerous to mention) are spot on today! Kudos to them for picking up the slack.
You didn’t cheat. Those comments are yours and you’re allowed to use them whenever and wherever you choose!
Salut!
Comments @ 191,192 and 194…
So much for your lie about there only being 300 of us.
Time to review Obama’s dKos diary posting from 2005
“…According to the storyline that drives many advocacy groups and Democratic activists – a storyline often reflected in comments on this blog – we are up against a sharply partisan, radically conservative, take-no-prisoners Republican party. They have beaten us twice by energizing their base with red meat rhetoric and single-minded devotion and discipline to their agenda. In order to beat them, it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in “appeasing” the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era.
“I think this perspective misreads the American people….”
The fact that 47+ percent actually did vote for Palin. This f’n country is a lost cause.
metro222 said:
I do.
Very many at FDL do.
The Dems do not.
The alternative is to not let the terrorists win.
That means supporting another choice, even if that choice does not win this year.
It means not giving in to the >1%’s protection racket. Screw the Dems making threats and the GOP who acts as their enforcement.
It’s hard to listen when you’ve stuffed your fingers in your ears and are yelling at the top of your lungs.
If you follow that path then you will have let the terrorists win.
And they still elect the Walkers, the Kasichs, the Wests, etc. Either they lie to pollsters or they are the dumbest people on the planet, and I’ll actually go for the latter.
I think they have already won and the rules are going to be written so that we can’t swing back.
There’s been a lot of great comments here today…
Thats one of them.
And let’s not forget Bubba–ending welfare “as we know it” Translation: kicking the poor in the ass, NAFTA, killing Glass-Steagall and of course DOMA and “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Sheesh, with Dems like Clinton and Obama who needs a bogeyman!
It’s very simple — once they can count on your vote, they can do whatever. That’s the dependency that has to be broken.
“a group so misinformed, conned and manipulated by corporate billionaires and secret fronts that fund them and whose agenda is so appalling”
To be fair, the Pete Peterson Foundation isn’t all that secret. Aside from that, this description of neoliberal and conservative Democrats is right on the mark.
Excellent post!
Let’s see, Obama does what the 1% wants in his second term and becomes worth over $100 million in the proceeding 7 years (just like Bill Clinton did), or he does what the 99% wants, and he devotes his post-Presidency to unprofitable human-rights or other worthwhile causes.
Judging on Obama’s Presidency, thus far, I’d say he’s most definitely one to follow Clinton’s lead, rather than Carter’s.
I still cannot forgive Van Jones for writing that WE (Obama’s 2008 supporters) are to blame for Obama’s betrayals by not ‘making’ Obama do what he promised. No one ‘made’ Reagan or Bush do what they believed in. Either you believe in your own agenda or you don’t. If you are elected on an agenda (& given both Houses of Congress) overwhelmingly w/ a mandate, you are free to PUSH THAT AGENDA!
He chose not to.
Obama must be save from the Tea Party! If there’s a President Romney, he’ll go and create a deficit panel to try and cut the social safety net to the poor and austerity for most everyone else. Oh wait…
Indeed, rationality is getting less lonely by the day lol.
Spot on…!
BP–
“Somebody needs to be organizing resistance now on the theme of “forget the elections; focus on what happens immediately afterward”. We need to be focusing on what we can do (gotta be somethin‘) to prevent the Grand RatFucking that Prez Pinocchio has in mind from becoming a reality.”
You nailed it.
Blue
P.S. I nominate you to be the “point man” to get the word out on this topic on the Thom Hartmann Program. “g”
Sorry, BP. Don’t know what happened to this comment when I tried to edit it. Hope you can make it out.
Blue
BP–
This is really strange. Now #227 is formatted correctly.
Guess I’d better call it a night.
Blue
Thank you, rc–likewise. (Also appreciated your humorous “retort” to MarkH, Comment #181).
Blue
econobuzz–
Yes, Rendell is reprehensible, but I sort of think he did us all a service today. The video is on the show website, if you haven’t seen it.
My read is that George very deliberately shut Rendell up, after he spilled the beans by saying, “we can do Simpson Bowles.”
Hopefully, this misstatement will bubble up into the MSM.
Blue
I don’t why everybody is mourning the Wisconsin vote. The democrats made it clear from the beginning that they didn’t want the recall and had absolutely no energy to get into a fight over it. If there is so little motivation in the leaders of the democrats to pick a fight and scream in their opponents faces over a good cause, then what’s the point in voting for them? I don’t mind losing a fight when I get my point across despite losing the day. I won’t stand for slinking away like a coward from a bully time and again. And I absolutely will not support it any longer. It’s too soul draining. Fuck off, democrats. You’re useless.
Go on the Thom Fartmann show?
And all along I thought we were friends.
Thanks for the praise, but pass on the suggestion. (Iff’n you don’t mind.)
Bobbylon–
I agree that it sounds like it’s headed in that direction.
But hopefully, this blogging community can manage to get the attention of at least the progressive media, regarding Rendell’s “gaffe.” (Don’t get me wrong, I realize that “this type of gaffe” is not likely to be one that the MSM will pursue. Poor ol’ George just about broke his neck today, trying to give Rendell cover by changing the topic.)
Anyway, I think it’s at least worth a try.
Blue
Hey, BP–
I was just “teasing” (remember how we both got “chastised” for criticizing Hartmann).
Actually, I may hold my nose and call in again when Bernie’s on, some Friday. Problem is, Thom knows that I’m “left of him,” and as soon as he sees where I’m going with a topic, he cuts me off and gives his answer so that I can’t challenge him.
Anyway, hope there’s no hard feelings. I really meant it as a good natured “tease.”
Blue
The last 4 years of the Obama Promise versus the Obama Reality have been stark, cold and unyielding in their downward spiraling of many of my friends and colleagues. People over 55 are out of work, many are broke and many are doomed to 20 years of subsistence living. They have skills and a desire to work and contribute. They can’t, however. There’s nothing for them to do in this new economy. The Obama Administration knew this or were told this was what was going to happen, soon after taking office. They chose to protect the banks and the crooked financiers behind the current shameful performance of the economy. At the expense of 50 to 100 million American citizens! For this alone he deserves to be thrown to the wolves. Ironically, it’s the same wolves he continues to court. But the alternative is worse. If one can imagine a worse scenario it has a picture of Mitt Romney as its’ centerpiece. So, we shall see what happens. By Labor Day most will have made up their minds on The Obama Adm. vs. a Romney Adm. I won’t think about it until then. A nightmare is a terrible thing to keep reliving.
The election is being bought by the criminal rich and, no doubt, foreign powers.
Stop being good little sheep and voting for the lesser of two evils. Time to show the Right and the Left you aren’t buying their corruption any longer.
Vote No Confidence in the Corrupt System.
It is slow. That’s it’s only advantage. There is some time to build a countering movement before the door slams shut.
No, the opposite is true. Obama neuters the countering movement. Hell, what ought to be the countering movement is running around telling us why it’s so damned important that we vote for him. Obama enables the Republican agenda. There’s a much better chance of actually countering against a Republican that wears the Republican label than against a Republican that calls himself a Democrat. Witness Bush’s second term when the effort to gut Social Security was thwarted. Now witness Obama’s horrendous payroll tax cut which undermines the basic political calculus of Social Security’s dedicated funding stream. Witness the push-back against Bush in his second term on civil liberties, the USA PATRIOT Act and so on. Witness the lack of push-back under Obama who has made the worst of Bush into bi-partisan consensus and expanded it even further.
It is better to fight the enemy you know is your enemy than to make peace with the enemy who you want to believe is your friend. Obama is not our friend.
Give me a Democratically controlled congress or even a divided congress and an avowed enemy in the White House. Dems will fight a Republican. For Obama, they roll over. Obama is the great Republican enabler. He has to go.
I know. I was just funnin’ with you.
I tried calling Fartmann a couple of times, got the same treatment you did. Went left, got cut off. Worthless POS.
The list of reasons why Obama sucks is long and painful. I would be more pissed off had I voted for him (I voted for Nader). I already had him pegged for the corporate cocksucker that he is. Having supported Lieberman over Ned Lamont was a clue back then too. Biden doesn’t get a pass. He called Julian Assange/Wikileaks “high-tech terrorists.” Obama said that “Bradley Manning broke the law.” Fuck ‘em both. I’m voting for Rocky Anderson. The Democratic party has slit its own throat. F’n worthless!
Wrong.
The worse scenario is Obama implementing the core of the >1%’s policies after 2012, just as he is doing now, just as Romney would do… but with no need to pretend to care about reelection and with the Dems running interception for him every step of the way.
That’s the worst scenario.
No. Heads in the sand on the left is is what got us into this situation. Obama must be stopped and for almost all on the left voting for Romney is not an option.
That leaves other parties.
And the aggregate alternative party showing must be strong enough to give aid to the inevitable public backlash as the Demopublicans attempt to carry out the wishes of the >1%. Strong enough to receive political credibility in return.
Like it or not this one can’t be sat out because the tools of the >1% are coming in for the kill and our lords and masters would just love it if Obama was left in place to finish the job he has so ably started.
Romney’s the next prez. O, thru his ham-handed way of trying to serve his masters while appeasing his peons, has outlived his usefulness to the PTB. They are Carterizing him.
I knew we were screwed during the 2008 primaries, when the favorite tactic of Obama’s fans was to call their fellow Democrats racists.
http://youtu.be/_02j3qZEEHM
I used to look forward to Thom, but since he moved to Washington to be closer to kiss the DNC’s ass directly, I have no interest in listening to him. He is such a shill. I listen to the 1st hour of the Young Turks now more than anything.
Bravo zapkitty, and all posters on this thread who eloquently debunk the lesser evil construct, even promoted here by folk we love and respect. Please do wake up, folk; this is no longer the scenario of the 2000 election when we really did not and could not envision the rot within both parties. We have to turn our backs on both of them, even if there is still confusion and disarray among the ranks, as well as co-option. Once you know where the truth lies, as zapkitty so eloquently and concisely presents it, how can you continue to think you can simply hold your nose or that doing so will benefit the country as a whole?
Marvellous thread, important discussion. And kudos as well to those who have given the lie to our ‘far left’ progressive ideals. They are American ideals; I became a citizen holding these truths to be universal and they are.
FYI, if you mean less than you should write it <1%.
To shake up the duoply, one of the parties has to go.
It does not matter which one goes first. The sooner one is retired to the dustbin of history, the sooner a long road to change can begin.
Vote against incumbants, vote third party in general elections, pay cash for what you need not what you are told to want, put money in credit union, don’t invest in s & p. Loan money through microfinance to people all over the world. I am doing all these things and maybe it won’t change the course we are on but I do feel better. :)
HA! I was thinking along the same lines, only in the form of the old saying: “People in hell want ice-water too, but that don’t mean they’re gonna get it.”
Come November, I can tell you a large number of us poor folk who don’t apparently matter to these assclowns, will tell them what they told us:
‘What? Save the country? Nope. We’re ALREADY on fire. We don’t need no water. Let the motherfuckers burn.’
I’ll be happy to vote Green Party, or not vote at all at this point. They tell you that ‘voting is the only way your voice can be heard!’
But by now I think it’s pretty clear what a total load of horseshit that is, isn’t it?
…
… …
… … … *ACK!*
You’re right, of course.
… pardon me, I’ve got to go back and edit several thousand comments…
Shorter Van Jones: “Obama sucks less”. Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard it all before and I agree, by all measurable standards, Obama does suck less. But that isn’t good enough for me anymore. Why do I always have to choose between a turd burger or crap on a stick? I won’t vote for any more politicians based on the perception that they are marginally better than their opponents.