Police report they have now identified the man — James Holmes (sp?), age about 24. More from NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/police-say-14-are-killed-in-shooting-at-colorado-mall.html?exprod=myyahoo

A 3 month old with a gunshot wound being treated at an area hospital. Per MSNBC.

Thank you for the report Scarecrow.

When I heard about this first thing when I turned on the TEEVEE I thought “LIMBAUGH!”.
Some homicidal moron who believes everything that comes out of that monster’s mouth, went off on a rampage about his idiotic comparison of Bane, one of the characters, to Bain, Mitt Romoney’s company.
I guess Limbaugh hasn’t read Harry Potter because there’s a mean centaur in there named Bane as well.

Bet GAWD makes an appearance in this case soon too.
Limbaugh’s a menace HE ought to be locked up along with whoever killed all these people.

I hope everyone knows we all have guns so this kind of thing can happen, we kill each other off; save the corporations and the gov the bullets.

Rush Limbaugh faces backlash over Batman villian and Mitt Romney conspiracy claims

NPR: there were so many wounded, police squad cars were being used to augment local ambulances, to take people to hospitals. Memories, when I was 8, my family was in nasty auto accident with a semi (we lost) — the police took me to the hospital because the town’s only ambulance was filled with mom and sis.

Yes, the guns….We’ve all got a right to carry….Soon we will have to get a pat-down to go to the movie, grocery store, etc…Thanks, Gun lovers, Everywhere…./s

Another reason besides the nauseous smell of popcorn to avoid going to the movies.

I’m glad they caught the perp and that he is alive. What was going on in his head to cause this massacre?

this will change nothing, as far as guns goes in the USA.

I can’t watch this on TV. It’s painfully obvious that the anchor at every news desk is trying mighty hard to conceal their arousal. Disgusting.

Thanks for the warning; I no longer have a TV and have not decided if I
will get one….though probably will. But I almost never miss it…odd

Icons of U.S. Coming soon to a UPSPS near you: stamps with George Zimmerman, and another set with James Holmes pictures.

Get in line to purchase them. They’ll be collectors items in no time flat.

Reminds me of that Don Henley song “We love dirty Laundry” about the press:

“it’s interesting when people die, we love dirty laundry”

It’s all Limbaugh days after he makes his snide comparison of Bane ( a common word) With Mitt Robme’s organization, BAIN, some delusional clown hoses down a theater forcryinoutloud

…and one of my idiot friends posted all over facebook that if someone in that theater had been carrying that the victims WOULD have been spared. The last thing I can think that I would want in this scenario is some hero shooting it out with the perp in a dark, tear gas filled, panic ridden theater. There’s no chance that the hero would shoot an innocent because only the bad guys have terrible aim. I know, I watch movies.

ABC News reported this a.m. that someone with the same name as the perpetrator was a member of the local tea party. Didn’t confirm if they were one and the same.

I’ll only get them if Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan are included along with the other “longunmen”

Aurora is where Columbine happened you know. They just said this kid joined the Tea Party recently.

FBI is reporting that shooter has ‘no obvious links to terrorism’. I guess the guy’s white.

Hey, FBI! If this isn’t terrorism, what the fuck is?

The NRA and the Republican Party and all their instruments of propaganda would have the “little people” remain in the gun sights.

What we need is to eliminate the regulatons on guns so someone in the theater could have been packing heat and taken out the gunman.

Aurora is where Columbine happened you know.

This crossed my mind earlier. My heart breaks for that community.

Just below the surface of many right wingers is a homicidal maniac.

Let’s not leave out Hinckley. Although he was not successful.

You can have mine. I haven’t had it on in months.

Good observation.

It’s actually 25 miles away, but still…

Will there be at long last someone from the rightwing propaganda machine who will be shamed enough to say, we’ve gone too far. We own this.

Close enough to be impacting the same communities. Just terrible.

Doc interviewed on BBC noted it was the same group of hospitals as Columbine.

I guess they must be specialists by now.

I heard one girl thought the gunshots were part of the movie. You KNOW something is wrong when people can’t distinguish reality from make believe.

How many times have I heard a disaster described as “just like a movie”. I think we’re going to be able to tell the difference real quick here pretty soon.

Time for mores sponsors to leave Limbaugh

They know they own this. This is what they want

If we glorify them on stamps, will it just “encourage them”?

I heard there was something hinky about Hinckley, like connections to the Bush family.

Isn’t encouraging them integral to the plan. They are, after all, American icons.

This is a rhetorical question, right?

Hinckley-Bush.

Here’s another one.

Never heard of either website, so stories could be entirely made up.

Because all children in ‘merica should be able to distinguish automatic gun fire by caliber and firearm? What’s that, a M16, and its sounds likes its 2 theaters over. Holy bionic ears batman, lets all run for it.

No.

SASQ.

It takes a lot to get me as a grown man to cry, but upon hearing of this, I cried.

It was a ….rhetorical question.

No flies on us

Good. More men need to learn how to cry maybe we would be in better shape in this groaning world.
There was a guy on TEEVEE with tears pouring down his face and the ABC anchors told him basically to “man up”.

To me, feelings and recognizing them and using them are the strong thing and the ahrd thing to do.
Good for you

PS: I DIDN’T cry, I was too mad at Limbaugh

somebody get me a cheeseburger… livin’ in the U.S.A.

FDL posters should be aware that the latest rumor going around is that the shooter is from a violent faction of the Occupy movement. These things always get politicized, but you can bet Rush Limbaugh will focus on that story line.

thank you Scarecrow and thank you FDL.

I got up late this morning and very much appreciate the cautious, non sensational reporting.

Let me just say that my thoughts and prayers are with those injured and the families of those that were killed, as well as the perp’s family. I don’t know if this guy watched too much TV (or owned one I guess?), listened to too much Rush, was a tea bagging gun nut, or just off his meds. It doesn’t matter, 62 innocent people were viciously attacked and at least 12 of them perished in something pointless and stupid.

I live in North of Denver, I might even know some of these folks. Let’s just chill out on the blame throwing for a few minutes please and remember that for 62 families today is a miserable, awful day. Maybe the worst one of their lives. Soon enough we’ll know we’ll know more than we ever wanted about James Holmes, why don’t we calm the baiting? Aurora is mixed politically, the folks shot were likely Rush listeners, NRA advocates, Republicans, as well as NPR listeners, Obama supporters, perhaps even Occupy marchers.

This shit is awful, please let’s not make it worse.

What baiting? Blame throwing? I haven’t seen any of that on this thread. No need to throw down the forum cop card.

The Taliban has arrived in America I guess. And, Rush is controlling them. Throw in a obsessive religious identity and we are not too far away from suicide bombers.

Suspect apparently dropped out of the University of Colorado School of Medicine last month. Wow.

“They” said the same early on about the Giffords shooter, who later turned out to have been a schizophrenic Bolshevik wannabe. Then he was suddenly dropped like a hot potato. Also, as I recall, there was something similar with the pilot of that light airplane which was crashed into an IRS building in TX.

Limbaugh could still be somewhere in this. One can only hope, no?

We’ll find out soon enough. One fishy aspect is the Batman movie theater shooting genre. It was actually in one of the BM cartoon scripts. Also, it turns out Holmes in not a certain “Holmes,” after all.

Stay tuned. . .

Limbaugh has always had a problem with angry pacifists.

I suspect it will go in the opposite direction. This incident will be yet another rally point for concealed carry proponents. It will likely result in CC guns allowed into more private places like malls and theaters.

The CC cry in response to mass public shootings is always, “If only a law-abiding citizen had been carrying a gun this would have been averted. They then spend several moments fantasizing about how they would have acted in that role. The increased risk of mainly very poorly trained citizens with loaded guns is never ever considered. (In Kansas one can get a concealed carry permit after only 8 hours of instruction–mainly about legal issues–and firing 25 rounds. To think that a person is in any way competent to do anything other than shoot their foot off after that joke level of training is just fucking phenomenal.)

Another victory for the National Rifle Association over those pesky gun controllers.

As you probably know, in the minds of most concealed carry folks nothing EVER goes wrong. No bullets hit bystanders, no guns malfunction and they always, always accurately shoot the Evil Menace before any innocents die. Just like John Wayne. Just like Rambo. Their reality is entirely informed by TV. It’s truly bizarre to listen to their senarios.

When you add to this the exceptionally poor . . . I won’t even call it training . . . that most CC folks have–nobody does the kind of intense, repetitive, live-fire training required to do anything other than shit your pants and discharge your gun into your leg–they potentially only add to the violence that they imagine they will thwart. Most CC folks are accidents waiting to happen. And the data on gun accidents bears this out, none of which seems to make any impression on their fear-addled delusions.

“FBI is reporting that shooter has ‘no obvious links to terrorism’. I guess the guy’s white.”

Exactly. You can take that to the bank.

There is always the possibility the perpetrator is a right wing fanatic along the lines of Tim McVeigh. If he should turn out to be a right wing fanatic I doubt if the public will ever know the truth. Right wing violence and fanaticism serves the interests of the status quo and the oligarchs quite well.

The threat of mass murder is just the price the “little people” have to pay in defense of the “freedom” to bear arms. When a horrific incident such as occurred in CO happens at the NRA or Republican Conventions gun control will magically be on the table.

So your concern is that too many innocent people might be hurt before the person deliberately trying to kill as many people as possible stops. We’re not talking about the Wild West here. CC is no “magic bullet” for societal ills, but its not the problem either. Why is it even worth bringing up? I realize its a topic that precludes rational debate, but couldn’t we try just once.

Lets take this little bit

As you probably know, in the minds of most concealed carry folks nothing EVER goes wrong. No bullets hit bystanders, no guns malfunction and they always, always accurately shoot the Evil Menace before any innocents die. Just like John Wayne. Just like Rambo. Their reality is entirely informed by TV. It’s truly bizarre to listen to their senarios.

So are you genuinely able to read minds? Any statistics or references come with this ability?

Most CC folks are accidents waiting to happen.

No rhetoric here…
You obviously have very passionate feelings about gun ownership. Maybe you feel better to have a forum to vent your hate. I think you should hold your opinion until the person(s) doing all the killing actually have a CC. We both know if an off duty cop shot the shooter we wouldn’t be having a conversation about it. Its really just about reinforcing preconceived notions. On both sides.

That’s as an asinine statement as I’ve heard in a long time. Distraught former suitor in China poisons 300 people at a wedding reception, its just the price we bear for eating cake.

Per HuffPo:

According to CBS News, authorities have found no evidence to suggest the incident was terrorism-related.

What the fuck was it if not “terrorism,” i.e., violence against civilians to make a statement.

Presumably, what CBS is trying to say is that there’s no evidence that the suspect has Muslim sympathies. YUCK!

There has to be a better way to screen for mental health issues. Quite frankly I’m at the point I believe there ought to be a preliminary health screening prior to allowing someone there first gun purchase(and my family owns guns.)

It’s pretty hard to conceal carry a shotgun or rifle and outlawing it certainly wouldn’t stop those that weren’t law abiding from concealing firearms. The problem isn’t the conceal carry laws.

You’re just being mean.
This is Not That.
And, I understand if this current situation has you upset.
I’m upset, too. Who isn’t?
Why take your disappointment, anger, pain out on another commenter here?
Well, you can, you did, but, if you think about it. It’s really not personal between you and the commenter you were, in my perception.
I think maybe let’s not do that. Tha

did your mother and sister make it through that?

t’s the sort of comment that gets us in trouble.
Breathe, dear. Take a few moments.

I agree completely. If there were a rash of CC holding persons going on a rampage then I think we should probably consider it. Rational, intellectually honest people could arise with different judgements from such a case, but it would be something that should be looked at. In this case, as in so many others, it just doesn’t apply. It serves only to detract from the root causes.

The issue I’d like to take this opportunity to highlight is the lack of proactive mental health care in the US. I don’t know how it is in Colorado, but where I’m at, it’s awful. It’s against the law here to get someone experiencing psychosis treatment against their will unless they are an imminent physical threat to themselves or others. In most cases, it’s darn near impossible to prove imminent physical threat until someone gets hurt. And it’s also a huge challenge to convince a confused, psychotic person that they need help.
Until that problem gets solved, your going to continue to see children and other innocent victims get hurt and die every so often.

terrorism, i.e. violence against civilians to make a statement.

One more step, comrade.

That’s never going to happen.
What about the mother who said You have the right person.
And, I’m pretty sure, not all the way ’cause I’m not Karnac, ha, that other people who have known this young man Might have perceived a Problem.
We need to pay attention. Hello?

PS, I like your take on putting a bigger focus on Mental Health and agencies that can Do Something.
Didn’t the homeless population increase incredibly after Reagan cut programs?
Still, I say we each have a responsibility to Pay Attention.
If you know someone who is leaning towards Wacko, Do something about it.
Make a phone call or 5.

Oops, my blood pressure is going up, so I should probably step away from this.
Hugs to All.
I hope nobody hates me for this, but, I am thinking about, in a meditative way, the Killer. Because, obviously he is seriously ill. Sad for every single person involved.

There were some issues concerning rights with those in insane asylums. Such as putting “uppity” women in them for wanting the right .*gasp*. to vote. We should definitely do more for mental health though. A 40 or 35 hour work weak would help for a lot of people I would think. I’ll also go as far as saying we all deserve to be able to consult a mental health professional just as much as we deserve medical care. Besides employing the population I think we would all be happier and better fulfilled.
We have seen huge gains in productivity, but thats created a lot of slack in the employment arena instead of making life easier for all. There are tons of ways a decent society could address that.

Your assumption about my concern indicates that you may have not heard or thought about what I said in my post.

I did not bring up CC, the subject had already been broached on this thread, including a comment about how it might have averted this shooting.

The topic, for me, in no way precludes rational debate. Indeed, I consider it the opposite. My comments were precisely about rational risk management. The biggest irrational component, as I see it from being a lifelong gun owner, hunter and avid shooter with most of my friends being the same, is the unrealistic hero fantasies of a great many CC folks. I don’t read minds. CC folks tell me these things all the time. In fact, I have never heard a narrative to the contrary by any of them. On top of this one must consider the dangerously low level of training it requires to get a CC. Couple this near-complete lack of training with John Wayne hero fantasy in addition to all the mechanical and human errors that are possible with CC and yes, the majority of these folks are accidents waiting to happen who will most likely add to the violence of a mass shooting instead of detract from it. Check out the gun accident data for yourself. These are rational concerns not mentioned out of hate.

I do have passionate feelings about guns. But not in the way that you have so erroneously assumed.

I never accused you of bringing up CC (just that I don’t know why one would in this case). I read your statement as well as the previous ones. That said you did say that most CC folks wanted to play Rambo, and were accidents waiting to happen. Personal antidotes don’t really help, but ok, I’ll play along. How many of your CC friends stopped using their guns (training i suppose) as soon as they got their permits? How many of them have had gun accidents resulting in the death of innocents?

What data, if any, can you use to support your assertion that CC would increase the violence in a mass shooting? Please cite gun accident statistics if any are available that will help your assertion. I haven’t found any. You’re not the only one with dumb redneck friends, nor dumb redneck friends with guns, who like to talk trash. I wouldn’t besmirch everyone with a CC as an unstable loon ready to crack though. People do weird things in high pressure situations, good and bad. Your invective against some CC that you’ve run into is understandable but far from scientific proof that their all delusional.

Your comparison doesn’t work. Guns are weapons; we make them specifically to intimidate, wound, and kill. Cake is a tasty food that is made to be eaten. While you can poison cake, it’s not inherently dangerous, and people generally do not acquire cake with the intent to scare intruders off or go on a killing spree.

.

Never accused?! Come on, your assumption that my primary emotion was hate was certainly an accusation, and an incorrect one at that. Then you sarcastically suggested that I could read minds. When I backed up my assertions with words I’ve heard from the horse’s mouth, you then dismiss that as irrelevant anecdote. Why isn’t one’s personal experience relevant to their understanding of the world? Anyway, don’t take what I have just said in this paragraph too seriously.

My point here is not to make unsubstantiated attacks on CC holders–and I’m not personally referring to “dumb redneck friends,” several of these people have Ph.Ds. The issue in suggesting that CC would more than likely add to the violence is that in subscribing to the hero fantasy narrative, which is very often inspired by fear, the risks are not included in the cost-benefit calculations most of these folks make. Again, it is an issue of risk management. So many CC folks (indeed all of them that I know) have decided that their narrative is more powerful than figuring things like the probability of human or mechanical error into their outcomes, which is why they imagine they will just shoot the bad guy. I’m not suggesting “scientific proof,” but understanding and discussion.

And to be fair, you are right: they are not all delusional. But most, I suspect, are. To refuse to entertain any negative repercussions to one’s actions out of adherence to an imagined scenario (unless we suppose most CC folks have been in gunfights before) sounds a lot like delusion to me. Of course therer are exceptions, which is why I qualified my past comments with words like “most.” Perhaps one-sided and irrational is a more balanced description.

Apart from the hero narrative–and this is something I guess most people don’t know–it takes almost zero training to get a CC permit. Is it reasonable to assume that people with almost no training with a deadly weapon will lessen the violence when in a situation for which they also have no prior actual experience? Being “effective” in such a situation requires intense, repetitive training in as close to real life situations as possible so that one can function without having to think. A delusion is that one will think rationally in a dangerous, phenomenally stressful situation. That simply doesn’t happen because one imagines it will. Is it not just a little delusional to dismiss all this? Would you think someone who has only played flight simulators on a computer would increase or decrease the risk to passengers if they were to pilot an airliner?

And I’m sure you know about and can look up all the data on gun accidents. This is not avoidance on my part. I read this stuff all the time. But you can do your own work.

That’s as an asinine statement as I’ve heard in a long time.

You’re offended by Bluetoe’s statement, “When a horrific incident such as occurred in CO happens at the NRA or Republican Conventions gun control will magically be on the table.” But it’s true.

Just as a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged, a person who supports gun control either has the common sense to know these deadly weapons need to be registered and limited or is someone who has lost someone to senseless gun violence.